June 25, 2025 • 50 mins
Greco di Tufo is an iconic Italian white wine produced in Campania with an historic provenance. Scipione di Marzo first brought cuttings of local Greco vines from his hometown of Nola to replant in Tufo in 1647. Cantine di Marzo was officially registered with the Chamber of Commerce of Avellino as a Farm in 1833, making it the oldest winery in Campania and among the oldest in Southern Italy. Ferrante di Somma, 16th generation family owner, discusses the winery’s history and wines.
The Connected Table is broadcast live Wednesdays at 2PM ET and Music on W4CY Radio (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com).
The Connected Table Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-connected-table-live--1277037/support.
The Connected Table is broadcast live Wednesdays at 2PM ET and Music on W4CY Radio (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com).
The Connected Table Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-connected-table-live--1277037/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The topics and opinions expressed and the following show are
solely those of the hosts and their guests and not
those of W FOURCY Radio. It's employees are affiliates. We
make no recommendations or endorsements for radio show programs, services,
or products mentioned on air or on our web. No liability,
explicit or implied shall be extended to W four CY
Radio or its employees are affiliates. Any questions or comments
should be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for
(00:20):
choosing W FOURCY Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Welcome to the Connected Table Live. We're your hosts, Melanie
Young and David Ransom. You're insatiably curious culinary couple. We
enjoy traveling the world exploring wine, food, hospitality, and the
life we believe everyone should live, which is to eat well,
drink well. For people in the hospitality business, because it's
(01:02):
a great business to be in as we are. We
travel frequently to Italy and recently had the great opportunity
to attend a program called Campania Stories that really tell
us the stories of the producers and regions of the
beautiful region of Campania in southern Italy, which has rich,
rich history. We've been to Campania a few times, right.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
David, We've been a number of times.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Yes, So today many people go to Campania to go
to the coasts because the multi coast is dis gorgeous
and you want to see the sea. But we're taking
you inland to an incredibly historic area. It is filled
with mountains and it's very green, and some of our
favorite wines are produced there, right David. So we're going
(01:47):
to take you to an area called Abellino. It's a
province in Campania, to the region called Tufo. This is
where the famous Greco d Tufo DOCG white wine is produced.
And we have with us Ferranti di Soma of Cantina
de Marso, which is the oldest winery we've learned in
(02:09):
southern Italy, the great history and his ancestor Tiaponi di
Marso brought Tufo cuttings Greco cuttings, excuse me, from the
coast of Napoli to Tufo where he planted them, and
he's basically, you know, the patriarch of Greco de Tufo wines.
We're gonna learn a little bit more about this history
(02:31):
and talk about our recent visit to Campanna and to
Cantina de Marso with Ferranti di Soma. Welcome to the
connected table.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
Hello, thank you very much for having me.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Well, we're thrilled to have you and we had a
lovely visit at your winery a couple of weeks ago. Ferrante,
why don't you give us a little backstory on the
history of your family and how they came to be
in Tufo and working with wine and growing grapes.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
Okay, a few words. First of all, family, let's define
that because my surname is Disoma. The Disoma side is
a very ancient family. We date back to the thirteenth
century Neapolitan family. However, my grandmother on my father's side
was a Dimarzo classical thing. It was a title of marriage,
of title and money, which happened. My grandmother married in
(03:22):
nineteen twenty and that's how we entered the Dimarto family.
That's how I ended up with part of the shares.
The rest was basically acquired and gradually getting a larger
and larger share of the of the winery. So the
di Marto family, well, the first known ancestor Shipion Dimarzo.
(03:46):
We believe he left actually wasn't really the coast. He
was near Nola. Nola is a town which is halfway
between Naples and Avellino, on the flanks of the Vezuvion.
And he fled in sixteen forty seven. Than sixteen forty eight,
he fled an epidemic of plague and he came to Tufo.
(04:06):
And the story is that he brought this white variety
which he planted in Tufo. So this white variety took
a bit more in depth the Greco variety. It's very
difficult to prove the exact origins. I can give you
explanations which are very plausible. First of all, the Greco
(04:29):
grape was they first started talking of a Greco wine
around the tenth century because this area of Irpinia, Irpinia
is the province of Avilino. Basically, in a nutshell, Irpinia
was under Lombard domination. The Lombards were Germanic tribes that
(04:51):
actually originally Scandinavian tribes which traveled to Germany and in
the seventh century entered Italy and occupied practically all of Italy.
So we were a country of on the Lombard domination. However,
the coast of Naples, Sorrento was under Byzantine was a
Byzantine duchy. Naples was a Byzantine duchy. And for us
(05:14):
they were the Greeks. Byzantine Empire were considered Greek basically
by the Western Empire, and so for us they were
the Greeks. And on the coast they used to grow
more white varieties and they made this wine. By they
made a special wine which they started calling vino greco.
(05:37):
And this one consisted in letting the clusters weather on
the plant, on the vine, and they would make a
very high alcohol, high alcohol wine which reached sixteen eighteen percent.
This was very important in a time where cull fights
did not exist because this was a wine that could
be kept. Bear in mind that medieval wine, first of all,
(06:01):
it was probably not very very pleasant, and also that
didn't keep because they didn't have sulfites. We can say
the most horrible things about sulfites, but sulfites helped to
keep a wine stable. Sulfites are used also in the
food industry. They are very very bread. The important thing
is to limit as much as possible the amount. So
(06:21):
these wines without cul fites had a high alcohol content,
a high acidity. It was a wine there was exported
all the way to Constantinople, to France, and it was
an expensive wine because very low yield, because of the
withered grapes. And throughout the following centuries, they first of
(06:41):
all in Campania, they started growing more and more white
varieties and they and they kept this name vino greco
because it allowed you to keep a high price, because
it was considered a prestigious wine. If you look at
the really the important documents are basically the registries of
the evil monasteries in Campagna, because monks used to produce
(07:04):
and also deal a lot in wine, and you see
that they start using this term vino greco. By the
Middle Ages, the distinction was quite clear. Vino greco was
white wine, Vino latino was red wine. That was a distinction.
Let me go forward in time to the sixteenth century.
We have very interesting writings by Sante Lancheio. Santelancherio was
(07:27):
the boler. He was of the pope. Basically he was
in charge of all the wine of the pope, and
that was a big deal at the time. And Santelancherio
says that every day his holiness drinks a glass of
vino greco, and not only every day he rinses his
eyes and his manly parts with this wine. Don't know,
(07:52):
I have no explanation for that. But St. Lancherio writes
about different types of greco. He talks about Greco del Vizuvio, Greco, diposi, LiPo, Gregorskia,
Greco dirre, and gregor Dinola. So you see it's a white,
widespread term. He talks of wines because at the time
they didn't classify grapes. What's what is brings us to
(08:17):
what we should pay attention to the fact is the Grecordinola.
Because sam Paolo Belsito the hometown of Shipunity Maps, so
it's practically attached the Noola. So it's very likely and
plausible that Shipunity Maps brought the Gregordinola to two four
in the seventeenth century. Also, because you must know that
the seventeenth century was a was a pretty bad century
(08:40):
for Campania, because we had an eruption of the Vizuvian
sixteen twenty, we had a mega earthquake in sixteen eighty eight,
We had various outbreaks of plague where they say plague,
it could be smallpox, cholera whatever. At the time, they
didn't really basically people died and so there was a
lot of inside migration and a lot of the great
(09:00):
varieties in campaign you have traveled around and were distributed
throughout the territory, especially in that century. Interesting. So it's
very plausible that Shipioni di Maso brought the Greco Dinola
which he planted in Tufo where it found a specific soil.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Let's talk about that soil because Tufo is a type
of soil as well. So why did it flourish there
and what characteristics does it now give to this specific
Greco d Twufo.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
Okay, so for this I have to go back fifteen
million years, but don't worry, I'll go faster. Okay, Okay,
fifteen million years ago instead of Italy, we have the sea,
a shallow sea, and that's a period when the appennines
start to emerge from the sea as southern Italy becomes
an archipelago of islands. Following that, there's a phenomenon of erosion.
(09:55):
You have to imagine these hills, these mountains popping out
of the sea and there's a phenomenon of erosion which
brings sediments on the sea bottom. I go fast forward
to five point ninety six million years ago, the Great
Saline Crisis. What happened that at that time the African
(10:17):
continental plate decided to go upwards and closed what was
the equivalent of the Strait of Gibraltar at the time,
and the Mediterranean becomes a closed sea and in a
very very short time it evaporates, and you end up
having a land that probably must have looked like Utah
(10:37):
because of a lot of salt and the calcium carbonates, chalk,
magnesium carbonates, and the brimstone sulfur. Sulfur was caused by
Cettain bacteria during the evaporation, which extracted the sulfur from
the minerals from the soil. So they were important deposit
(11:00):
of the sulfur, as you've seen visiting the winery that
we had a mine of sulfur in the nineteenth century,
in the family, nineteenth and twentieth century. And so this
is one phase after which the continental played after about
what was it about five point three million years ago,
(11:22):
goes down again. The strait up Gibraltar opens up, and
it's really like opening a water tap. The Atlantic Ocean
comes gushing in and it's believed that it took just
between six months to two years to fill up the
Mediterranean again, which is a very geologically traumatic event. It's
a really in geological terms, it's a flash flood. And
(11:44):
so we're back to the archipelago of islands after that,
the except that on the sea bottom we have the
sediments and we have the carbonates. After that, the gradually
the global climate cools down, the sea level goes down,
the emergeres. But we're not finished yet because forty thirty nine,
(12:04):
forty years ago, there was this massive mega eruption of
the Campi Fligray, the Flagrain Fields. It is just north
of Naples. Now it used to be a volcano and
it's just a big caldera, which is giving us quite
a few problems now because it's getting active again. Well,
this eruption, you have to imagine this massive pyroclastic cloud
(12:28):
which goes over the Apennines, goes inland, covers the whole area.
Actually the plume went all the way to Siberia. That's
from the air. From land, we had rivers of lava
which came and covered and covered the soil and where
it encountered fresh water trying let's say, ponds or wherever
(12:52):
there was fresh water. The contact between this volcanic material
and the water alkaline water gave what you call zeolites,
which is a sort of a semi porous clay which
functions a bit as a sponge. It absorbs and releases humidity.
But you don't have it everywhere. You have in certain spots.
After which, we had another eruption of the always of
(13:14):
the flaggerined fields about ten thousand years ago, and we
got again all deposits of a volcanic material. And then
we had the various eruptions of the Vizubia throughout the centuries,
which brought some pummer stone in certain areas, some ashes
in other areas. So you see we have a very
very diversified geological structure, which is the reason why I
(13:37):
vinify separately each each vineyard. I have a very Burgundy
style approach, because like in Burgundy, each plot of land
has its own geological structure, and each plot gives its
gives wines with its specific characteristics.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
I think that's a great really fascinating. As you're talking,
I'm thinking, how can it happened? Millennium go, and we're
going to have this happen again because we were seeing
eruptions and mean and recently erpted in Sicily, and the
flagrant fields are kind of rumbling. Now, you never know
when we're gonna have more climatic excitement other than what
we already here experiencing. Now we visited your key clue vineyards.
(14:21):
Why don't we talk about because they very they distinct,
they're very distinctive each one, and just for everybody listening,
this is an area you were inland. When you refer
to the flagrant fields and an Atholete, that's almost three
hours two and a half hours away.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
Right, No, actually it's it's about an hour one and
a half hours.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
The drive felt that way, but it's your inland and
you look around and there's you can see the Apennini
in the in the background and the hills, so it's
quite hilly. Let's talk about the because we tasted many
of rewinds, but let's talk about how this translates into
the wind eyes themselves and what is produced at Continda
(15:03):
de Mars. But before we do that, let's just again
underscore that your family's winery is considered the oldest in Campagna, right, Yes,
and one of the oldest in Italy correct.
Speaker 4 (15:18):
Probably well in Tuscany you have you know Johanni his
winery I think is one thousand years old. I'm only
four hundred years old. Competing.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Okay, you're a baby. Well, but significant history. And again
it's considered the birthplace of Greco to Tufo. So let's
talk about your different clue vineyards and how they are
distinct in terms of topography and the wines produced.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
Okay, so let's consider the first of all, all this
has been the result of the extensive studies by geologists,
because gentle Madicurio, our winemaker, has a brother, Marianno, who
teaches geology at the University of Benevento, and one of
his students decided to do a thesis the influence of
(16:13):
soil on the production of wine, and they made us,
gave us the honor of being there, let's say, their
guinea pig or their case study. So we had the
geologists who came over and we started digging in each vineyard.
We took some samples of soil, samples of grapes. We've
analyzed the soil to see what's in there. We've analyzed
(16:33):
the grapes throughout four different vintages, and we did a
panel of tastings. We had to come out with a
little leaflet for so that it's comprehensible, because if you
look at the study, it's pretty tough to understand. It's
all mathematical functions. I didn't understand much. I understood the maps.
So what I did see is that there's basically the
(16:54):
three main components of our soil are clay, carbonate and zeolites.
These are the three things, and each vinyard has different
proportions of the one or the other. And what I
can say, so if we take the different crews, for example,
the Vigna Serne is the one that is most complete
(17:18):
with the three things. It's got. It's packed with zeolites,
it's packed with clay, and is packed with with cobinants,
and that's that. Wine is much more on the muscle,
it's much more on the power end of things. We
have Lauri, for example, much more academic, much more greco
(17:40):
by the book, which is basically it's just clay and corbonates,
no zeolites. We have the Murino Gardino, which is very
prone to aging, very rich in zeolites. Uh and are
quite rich in in clay, and we have the which
is very poor in zeolites, rich in clay, and relatively
(18:03):
rich in cobonates too.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
And that results in wines with very distinctive aromas and flavors.
What let's just talk about for our listeners and viewers,
what distinguishes the aromas and flavors and the and the personality,
as we say of Greco de Tufo. And we always
(18:27):
also like to say it's similar to or if you
like this, because we're we deal with a lot of
sharpenay drinkers in the United States, and we're always trying
to say, let's try something else. So let's put it
into context in terms of what you expect in your mouth.
Speaker 4 (18:44):
Okay, First of all, I know it's not fashionable anymore
to talk of minerality, at least in Italy. They're sort
of doing this thing. Oh, minerality doesn't exist. I believe
it does exist.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Oh we love minerality, Oh we love it.
Speaker 4 (18:56):
And how they prefer to talk of flinty rather than
let's forget about the polemics. It is a very mineral wine.
It's supposed to be very mineral. It's very savory wine,
practically salty. It's a high acidity wine. Do not expect
a typical wine of a very very hot country. We
are much more in the style, much more towards Trentino Alto,
(19:19):
if not even as us. If we were to be
put in a category, I would put us in the
category of the reestlings, something between a reestling and a cheblis.
You know.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
I think that's an interesting context to put it into
because when we went to Urpinia, Orpinia is inland, and
it's and it's kind of in the rain shadow of
the first set of mountains after Vesuvius, So it's a
it's a humid region, and it's a green region as
opposed to the coastal areas which are very hot and
dry and struggle. But this is actually a very fertile
(19:54):
region and so the grapes really present differently by being
grown there.
Speaker 4 (19:58):
Yes, absolutely, the climate is very unpleasant for people, at
least in winter. Very I have memories of my childhood
when we went to the villain Avellino we didn't have
heating yet and getting into the bed where you had
these practically damp bed sheets, but very good for wine.
It gives us crisp wines, and you're absolutely you're right.
(20:20):
We're in the middle of the Apennines. The Apennines, I
wouldn't say protect us, but prevent the air from the
sea from reaching inside. So this mitigating effect of the
sea of the sea climate. We're more continental, rainy, they say,
like they have been. Yeah, and much colder in winter.
(20:43):
Sometimes we reach like eight nine degrees celsius. I know
what that is in pharaonhit difference between naples, So it's
what eight nine degrees celsius would be, something like what
thirty degrees pharanhit more or less something like that. Yeah,
and you do get snow there, Oh we get snow here, Yes,
(21:04):
not in these last years, but so we do get
and when it snows, it snows heavily.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Looking at our respective notes, which are looking down, you know,
I see, you know, minerality comes up in both of
our notes. Stupidity, floral characteristics as to the reasoning and aspect,
and also just that flinty stoniness as well.
Speaker 4 (21:28):
And also herbal Yes, vegetation, a lot of well, a
lot of vegetation, like yeah, BRINGI and bush, these kinds
of aromas. And I had this epiphany recently when I
was doing the tasting with so many years of the
ice for our for our study on the geology and
all that, And while I was tasting, I was thinking,
(21:50):
my god, this is not minerality. This is herbs, this
is wild vegetation.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
It flash, it's got that in Provence.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
The girl the I call it scrub and and I
have an every single one of my notes here scrub, Mediterrane,
herbly and And you know, often when I taste wines,
and don't about you, David, but I always always look
around when we're in the vineyards, I look at all
the plants and the scrub and the natural wildflowers because
those in part into the wine, particularly that mented that
(22:22):
garrig as they call it. We we just so you know,
we had we brought two bottles back and we had
the Vigna Laurie uh the other night with a beautiful
pompino uh. And it was we seared Pompinau fish. It's
a it's a golf fish, it's a white fish. And
we had it with I forgot you made it, David,
(22:45):
What did.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
You make it? Well, it was it was with it
was with onions, fentyel garlic and and crab meat over
the top.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Of the tearing was Spectacu. One of our guests was
a chef, and he said, this is just the most
perfect parrot.
Speaker 4 (22:57):
Oh that's good to hear.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Yeah, it's just blew everybody away. We also, yeah, two
other things we want to touch on and then wilmore
family history. We understand you're also a first in bringing
meado classical wines to the area. Is that true.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
That's true. The first time we did a metal claud
nineteen twenty six, because what was the situation at the time.
Southern Italy was selling a lot a lot of bulk
wine to France because France was hit by Philosia in
eighteen seventy five, where you had these French wine growers
(23:34):
that brought some vines from the US that were infected
with filosa and as we all know, it destroyed about
ninety percent of Albinians in the world basically, and Philoxa
arrived much later here in It arrived only in the
around the nineteen twenties thirties, where they had already discovered
(23:54):
the grash system. So for all those years before they
started using the grass system, you see those sad pathetic
attempts of French wine growers. You see those old tools
where they were trying to spray sulfur smoke inside the
soil to stop the philoxura. Bear in mind that at
the time, average consumption in France was about one hundred
(24:17):
and fifty liters per inhabitant per year, which is massive
nowadays in Italy. In France they're below fifty. In Italy
they're just below forty. To give you an example, I
think Washington, DC, which is the highest wine consumer in
the US, the consumption average consumption per inhabitants is around
fourteen liters.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
So you didn't know that, Washington DC. That's surprising to me.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
All those congressional parties, I guess.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Exactly all those parties and so.
Speaker 4 (24:49):
People used to drink a lot of wine. They used
to drink a lot of plank with it. I mean,
it wasn't very high quality wine, but it was part
of the nutritional sphere. The work would stop for lunch,
would pull out a huge sandwich, a liter of red
or white, and that would make his day. Nowadays people
drink much less. They drink much better, but they drink
(25:09):
less well.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
A lot of that also was way back then water
was not safe to drink.
Speaker 4 (25:16):
Well, I mean in the nineteenth century. By then water
was pretty safe. That was okay, But you can't interrupt
good habits exactly, especially in France in that case. And
so you had to feed this market. And we had
our director. His name was Fiori Buttiglieri, which sounds like
(25:39):
a joke in Italian because Bigieri sounds like bottle for
a man who manages a winery. It's a perfect surname.
And the Foi Botillieri developed contact with the French. First
of all, he brought the grey or pruning system here
in Upenia, because before our peasants used to grow, used
(25:59):
to grow the vines with the system of rajia. You
know what, you have two vines that cross over on
the top of pergola, because that would allow to plant
veggies in between. And so he brought the greio much
more systematic, higher quality, lower yield. And also he developed
contact with the French. He worked with us from nineteen
(26:20):
nineteen until nineteen fifty eight, and so he developed this
contact with the French, and he saw that our bulk
wine was being used also for cuts of champagne. So
that's how he had the idea, let's make our own
sparkling wine, which came out under the name Torrifaval in
nineteen twenty six. So next year we have the centennial
(26:41):
and we're coming out with our fourty eight months an
eventy sparkling congratulations, thank you.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
I know. We had something called the nineteen thirty.
Speaker 4 (26:53):
Yes, nineteen thirty, which is a younger version dedicated to
my dad who left us in twenty ninety eight. I
had to process my morning through wine dedicated to him,
because he really kept the winery alive, mainly alive, but
he kept it alive when in the eighties and nineties
and two thousands and so I wanted to do that
(27:17):
for him. So this one is eighteen months on lease.
It's avoid nut to you, while the event is forty
eight months and a nixtaboid.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
We liked it a lot. We had to get nices cidity.
I love brute nature wines. They tend to be Actually,
we had a recent interview with another winery, Billa French
a Korda, and they were saying that more of their
customers are drinking brute mature. It's becoming it's growing in
popularity because people want lower or no dosage. We'll talk
a little bit about your family and the process, but
(27:47):
we do want to bring up another one we tasted
that we also brought back that you're experimenting and Flora
with talk to us about this because there's a wonderful
backstory to it. With your family.
Speaker 4 (27:59):
Which wine are you talking of?
Speaker 2 (28:00):
The de Demosh which is named it's the cousins or
there's two sisters or something.
Speaker 4 (28:08):
No, they're my two little twins. I'm a very dad.
I have to do six year old twins, a boy
and a girl, and I wanted to dedicate a wine
to them. And this is the wine that is vinified,
mastrated and aged in amphora, in this big clay amphora
of eight hundred of six hundred liters. We were a
(28:28):
bit of victim of our success because we only have
three hundred and fifty bottles left. It just went out
just in a flash. And well we have twenty twenty
two that's coming up next year, so and I'm planning
on increasing the quantities. So this is a I call
it my neolithic wine because it's very very simple. The
grapes arrived grapes from Vigne Laure. We just put them
(28:52):
in the in the in the amphora, pressed it, let
it mascerrate for a month, racked it.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (29:01):
We put the wine back in on lease for a
year and then about two years in the bottle. Because
another feature that we haven't talked about the agent potential
of the greco, which is massive. I'm really talking. This
is wine that can last twenty thirty years and it
just becomes better and better, just like. That's why I'm
(29:23):
I were saying we're in the category of the reeslings,
because these are wines that develop these tertiary notes, you know, hydrocarbons,
but mixed with dried fruits. It really becomes a symphony
of of aromas.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
I wish we had tasted more aged to grecos. We
really didn't. This trip well all about it was all
about the new releases.
Speaker 4 (29:47):
And everybody's running all the time. Quick quick, quick here there.
You should come over and just chill.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
And we can take slow tourism. So diddy on us
twenty dinnanus dinner twins. It means twin.
Speaker 4 (30:06):
As Mary.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
It's a beautiful wine. I got notes of saffron and
orange peel and lemon. It just musky. I loved it.
I love this wine, and I can see where it
would have a lot of appeal right now, and then
you're going to create another version for the other twin.
Speaker 4 (30:23):
Right, yes, I have to do also a red one.
That's a work in progress. We just got the second
and we have to work on it. Anyways, Well, it's
not going to come out before about three years, if
not four, so we have time for that. The reason
why I did this demos, the way I see it
now when I tasted it, it's that we opened the
(30:45):
door on a whole new dimension of the Gregorio, whole
new direction, a completely different world of aromas. Here, we're
much more on the practically, we're on the verge of
mentholated notes. I don't know whether you've noticed ultra balsamic
really medicinal herbs. That's why I wanted to age it
one extra year. I was. All the winery were after me,
(31:08):
telling me we got to release it, We got to
release it. I said, not yet, not yet. We waited
an extra year so that the the the palettes of
aromas sort of blended better together.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
It's beautiful wine.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
It's a lovely wine. We brought some back, did bring
a bottle back with us.
Speaker 4 (31:26):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
I think it's now you have three hundred and forty
nine bottles left, but we're very excited that we were
able to bring some back with us. You know, you
touched on red a minute ago, and Erpinia, where the
winery is located on a large scale, is Aglianico country
in a big way. Tarrasi's there, et cetera. But you
actually grow the only Aleanico in Tufo.
Speaker 4 (31:47):
I'm at least I'm one of the really crazy ones
to have steel vineyards here because it's a lot of
work to manage. I mean, I'm happy with the quality,
it's just that it's a lot a lot of work
to fight against the potential rots and things like that.
So we have to be very careful in the pruning.
(32:09):
And now we're changing the pruning so that we have
the cluster that falls a bit more, because before it
was basically sitting on its bub and there was a
risk of rots at the bottom of the cluster. So
we've changed the pruning so that it falls more, it's
more ventilated. The problem with that lank has got it's
got a very thin skin and it's very prone to rot.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
So and you and you're in and you're in tight
hills as well, in in in your in Tufo, in
your particular region, I noticed it was it was steep
and they were close together, so there's obviously there's less
air movement. I would think then there would be in
a in a more wide open space.
Speaker 4 (32:47):
So that doesn't help.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Yeah, yeah, it does better in other parts of Alorino.
It's just you know, because we traveled around tasting and
it's it's a beautiful red grape and red wine. That's
a saying about furnishing.
Speaker 4 (33:02):
Well, that's the reason why they grow aliado mostly around
Taasi and these other villages. Hey, it's more open, it's
more ventilated, it's cooler. Uh so the grapes stayed drier. Mhm.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
It's strange. Just and and you know, Amily is a
very it's bigger than we were called.
Speaker 5 (33:22):
You should Talkina is just the capital of Europeia. Okay,
so it's Erpinia, which corresponds more or less to the
province of Avellino.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
You know, it's confusing on the maps, I'll be honest
with you. You know, to spend Erpinia and there's amazing producers there.
I mean, we've I think this was for me my
second or third visit, but we missed the Campana stories
that was centered in Urpinia, which was unfortunate because it
would have been wonderful. You know, is it well churisted?
(33:56):
I know people can visit Contino to Marzo. Do you
get a lot of visitors.
Speaker 4 (34:01):
We get a lot of American visitors. Thank god.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
They might think, oh good, well that's that's good.
Speaker 4 (34:08):
Very polite, very interested. They love drinking, and they always
buy wine. So I'm happy.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
So Tufo is you know, Gregor, the Tufo is the wine.
But Tufo is its own village, and your family had
an incredible impact on how this historic village evolved. You
touched on briefly the sulfur mines, but it was your
(34:38):
family's discovery. I think Donato discovered on horseback, discovered the
sulfur mines. Talk to us about that.
Speaker 4 (34:46):
Francisco discovered the mines Donato. Donato brought the railroad. So
eighteen sixty six, Francisco dimto while he was riding on
his land near the river Sabato, he saw some shepherds
that had made a fire, bonfire, and he noticed that
in the bonfire they were burning stones from the smell.
(35:08):
He understood that they were burning pieces of brimstone. He
understood that his land was very rich with this mineral,
and so he started this mining activity, which lasted more
than one hundred years from eighteen sixty six until nineteen
eighty four because the mind ran out. And then they
discovered you could obtain a liquid sulfur from as a
(35:30):
byproduct of all refining, so a fraction of the cost.
But through all the nineteenth century it was a very big,
big deal. Sulfur was very important for gunpowder, for matches,
for agriculture, and so that made it pretty much well,
let's say it improved the fortune of the Demats, who
were pretty well off before that, but then before that
(35:53):
they made their wealth basically through interesting marriages. Let's say
that's very calm.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
But you know what was we toured the old sulfur
mine and there's a monument to Agustinato or is it
to Francisco and it's still there, and the old railroad
because you built the railroad. It was an important rail site,
can you think about Yeah, And at some point I
read that the company employed five hundred people, so it
(36:24):
was an important economic impact on the village. Of Tufo.
Speaker 4 (36:27):
We even reached six hundred people. With the indirect employees
like brick labors and all that, we reached eight hundred.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Amazing.
Speaker 4 (36:37):
At its peak, TUFO had three thousand inhabitants. Now TUFO
has barely eight hundred.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
Maybe they need to start selling off houses cheaply to
get people invest cheap.
Speaker 4 (36:48):
So if you have some here, I can tell you
can buy a house for ten thousand euros.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Yes, that's what they're doing. Well, it's a shame that
it all died. There was this amazing prosperity and then
it all kind of went away because of changes in
sourcing because sulfur is also it's so important for so
many things. The palace Cassello Palace that we visited, what
(37:15):
was that historically before it became and let's talk about
the amazing network of underground sellers in it. And this
is where we did our tasting.
Speaker 4 (37:23):
So originally was part of the fortifications pasquality mats at
the end of the eighteenth century beginning of the nineteenth century.
He he let's say, he gentrified this military structure because
he had this very good idea of getting married, becoming
(37:45):
a widower and getting remarried, so it's a double dowry,
which is very interesting. And we found in a because
we have loads loads of all documents eighteen nineteenth century
and we saw that Donato, that's pasquality Mats started purchasing
at the very beginning of the nineteenth century. He started
buying land like mad he started investing a lot. He
(38:07):
really increased the patrimony of the family and then came
in eighteen sixty six the mind which added an extra
extra income to the family. All this until let's say,
things started going downhill after the Second World War. First
of all, because it was not the branch, because before
(38:32):
that the business was managed mostly by my great grandfather
Vito Dimpta, who was very, very capable in business. Then
when he died in nineteen forty three, it passed over
to the other branch of Marino Dimaptso, who was not
as good as an entrepreneur as his cousin, and so
things started going downhill. Plus you add to that that
(38:53):
the de matter were very fertile and prolific, so you
have very often you have ten twelve children, and unfortunately
we have Nippoleonic law where things have to be divided
among all the children, so that the property started being
more and more fragmented, and we reached a point at
a certain moment when we had the winery there were
forty owners and nothing could be done. So my life's
(39:17):
work was rebuild the equities so to concentrate them in
a larger chunk, so that somebody could make the right
all the wrong decisions, but at least making the decisions.
Speaker 3 (39:34):
So you took it upon yourself to actually consolidate and
take over management and ownership of it.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
Yes, and you have quite an international business background. I mean,
you've lived just a little bit about you. You've lived
in England and France and Russia. Just about your background
and what were you doing all that time?
Speaker 4 (39:54):
Well, in England. I arrived in England in nineteen sixty
nine and I was four and I lived there for
seven years. After that we moved to Paris, where I
lived there for about twenty years or something until nineteen
ninety two. Nineteen ninety two, I decided I want to
go and live in Russia. I wanted to see the world,
(40:15):
adventure and all that. I wanted to see the changing world.
So I learned Russian and I went to live there,
and I stayed there for five years and after that,
in a nutshell, I'll give it short, I've been working
and traveling between Paris, Milan and Moscow. I had a
business in outdoor advertising, a whole different thing, and in
(40:37):
two thousand and three I decided I did a master's
degree in Burgundy in wine trade, and because I knew
I was going to take over the winery sooner or later.
In the meantime, while the situation was maturing, I worked
as a wine agent specialized on the Russian market for
seven years and I sold a lot of French and
Italian wines there and then I took over here. I
(41:00):
closed Paris, definitely might close my flat in Paris. On
the first of November two thousand and nine. I came
to live in Naples and Avellino.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
On a background and you know, we I can only
imagine what it would be like to live in Russia.
I mean, we can't go there really, so I must
have been incredible experience, incredible experience. So you have a
great responsibility now very thinking it. What is your vision?
Speaker 4 (41:29):
My vision? My vision, first of all was to shift
our wine, our winery, because when I took over, we're
basically selling only in the winery and in a chain
of the retail stores of supermarkets in northern Italy. Very
low cost. And I have to say that when I
took over the winery, our wine had become I'd even
(41:50):
say embarrassing.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
Where do you Oh, well, he just disappeared. But we
are waiting to hear from Ferranti to Soma, again, from
Kntina to Marso, and here he comes back. I think
we're talking with Ferranti to some of Katina to Marso.
(42:18):
This is a place you can visit. It is and
we highly recommend.
Speaker 3 (42:24):
And it's not it's a beautiful area. It's not too
far from as we said, Naples. It's about an hour away,
right and.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
You need a car, You need a car, you need
to get Yeah. I think you can arrange tours as well.
But it's a very small village. I think the highlight
really is going to Contina to Marsa. But there's so
many fantastic wineries in Urpinia and the wines. I mean,
you touched on Tarassi, which is a whole other topic
from where we are here with Kantina to Marsa, but
(42:52):
just beautiful red wines. I think that that was like
my eye opener when we were there this past trip,
and it was really quite fantastic.
Speaker 3 (43:02):
And also you're in the home in two you're actually
in the home of Greco de Tufo, right, I mean
that's you know, that's a bucket list thing for a
lot of people who love white wines, especially the white
one to Capa, I think to be able to go
and experience that well, and we.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
Touched it because it's not this topic, but this area
also is known for the Fiona de Avellino, which is
another topic for another time, but another phenomenal white wine
produced in Orpinia, which is the region we're talking about,
which is Inland. I'm hoping we can get for Ronte back.
I see his screen flickering a bit, so we'll see.
(43:37):
But in the meantime, just a little bit about uh
one we just briefly touched with Companya Stories is a
wonderful program has been going on for several years to
with the Reggioni Compagna and several organizers including Myriad partners,
and what they do is they bring journalists over to
Companna and they showcase one area where we're all based.
We were actually in Urgulano and the area where we
(44:01):
had visited and spent a lot of time a few
years back. And then we have the option of touring
and visiting wineries throughout Campanya Fromandi touched on the Flagrant Fields,
which I know there was a field trip there and
they are kind of rumbling right now with volcanic activity.
We chose Erpinia because we had missed the Compania Stories
(44:22):
program that focused on Opinia and we wanted to go
back in and do a little deep up and I
think we saw maybe five four or five wineries when
we were there. Every year it changes, and we're so
grateful to be able to go to Companya Stories because
it is such a fascinating region. Many people just go
and fly in the Naples and eat the pizza and
(44:44):
have the food and go down to the Malfy coast,
but there's so much more to see it. I mean,
you've got Pompeii, You've got Vesuvio, you have the Flagrant Fields,
you have Caserta, you have Erpinia, and they're all different,
and the wines are all different in the areas, they're
very unique. I don't know if we're going to get
(45:05):
for Ronte back, so what we may have to do
is just wrap.
Speaker 4 (45:10):
Can you hear me?
Speaker 2 (45:13):
Well, welcome back.
Speaker 4 (45:14):
Well, I know what happened. Somebody's pestering me with WhatsApps
and things like that, and I think it into not me.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
While we lost you. We were just talking about how.
Speaker 4 (45:25):
I heard you. I could hear you.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
Oh good. Well, you know we have a little bit
of time left. You were going to just talk about
the vision. I think we we'd like to just talk about,
you know, the vision of Cantina and Marzo to the future.
And also again we want people to visit the region
and experience it. So how can they do that?
Speaker 4 (45:46):
Okay, First of all, I'd like to message to all
of you. Are you tired of pin?
Speaker 2 (45:55):
Thank you?
Speaker 3 (45:56):
You know I've been saying for years Fronte that there's
two regions that make the best white wines in Italy,
and that's Northeast and southwest. And when I speak of Southwest,
I'm talking about Campana.
Speaker 2 (46:07):
Yeah, just phenomenal. If you probably heard us some waxing
poetic about the Fiano Velinos and we did mention the
following really the eye opening white wines. Although this trip
I did taste some tarasses that met me go maybe
go whoa take a look there? Uh and then as
David referenced, the northeast, we love the ones of freely
just that whole area just fabulous. So anyway you said,
(46:34):
if you if you're sick of Pinot, Grisio had tried
Greco to Tufo. Okay, and and and watch and you know,
how can our fans and followers book opposits? And where
do they stay? Is there? Do you offer accommodations or
do you have to say elsewhere? What would you what
would you propose? And how would you visit the linery?
Speaker 4 (46:56):
No? I would propose First of all, Okay, you landed Naples,
you can also land in Salai because Slena maybe see this.
Most you need a car though, that's the only thing
because unfortunately here we have our well, I don't have
to The infrastructures here are still pretty much from knuckle
draggers and.
Speaker 5 (47:16):
So with.
Speaker 4 (47:18):
It's unless you can take a bus to Avilina, but
then from a Vilina to Tufas and Nina. So you
need a car unless you call me because I live
in Naples, so I come here every day so I
can always catch somebody and bring him over. And you
just need to warn us a couple of days in
advance sending an email, and we're very happy to show
you around the winery. We have different formulas of visits
(47:41):
according to how many wines you want to taste, how
much you want to visit. It's I do personally the
English visit. If I really can't, then there's Ileonara who
speak very good English. And it's not that difficult, I mean,
And it's nice because you're really very much off the
beaten tracks of tourism.
Speaker 2 (48:01):
It is really on the beaten track and well worth it.
And the underground sellers are just so historic and beautiful.
In this giant palazzo which is where you now do
the tasting, it's not a lived in palazzo anymore. It's
a historic place where and a big centerpiece of the village.
Speaker 4 (48:17):
My headache and my nightmare because I really have to
do something with it, but I need a few million
euros to restructure it.
Speaker 3 (48:23):
Yeah, it's really large, but you're actually still making the
wine and the cellars there, so that's it. It's one
of the winers I love because they didn't all of
a sudden, say abandon the old building and then build
a new one. You're actually still in there making the wine.
And it's a nice testament to the building.
Speaker 2 (48:41):
Just bring really good walking shoes because it's perfectly honest.
Speaker 4 (48:46):
Retrospectively, it would have been much cheaper for me to
build a modern winery on the side of the street
and keep this for tourists.
Speaker 3 (48:53):
Probably probably, well there is that it does still have
that potential future.
Speaker 2 (48:59):
It is find it imposing edifice, as we say, just
for our listeners. The website is Cantina c A T
I canteen a with an E D martso m A
R c O.
Speaker 4 (49:11):
Like march right, Yes, dot I T yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:14):
Dot I T can canteene mars dot I T yep.
Speaker 4 (49:20):
And you can have also in English.
Speaker 3 (49:24):
Yeah, yes, it's got a great website and it is
in English as well.
Speaker 2 (49:27):
Yeah, and you'll see some beautiful photos. Well, you know,
for Auntie, we know you're really busy, and we're so
glad you joined us.
Speaker 4 (49:32):
Really, it's really nice having a chat rather than going
through my through all this paperwork.
Speaker 2 (49:38):
Oh well, we're glad we mate, we're a highlight of
your day. A.
Speaker 3 (49:41):
We were thrilled to be able to visit your winery
and spend time with Eleanora who was who led us
through the tasting and gave us the tour of the
vineyards as well, and then also to be able to
speak with you today, So thank you so much for
joining us again.
Speaker 4 (49:53):
I hope you'll come and visit again, and then I
hope I'll be available this time and you're around and
we can we can open a few bottles that are
quite fun to try.
Speaker 3 (50:03):
We'd love to do that.
Speaker 2 (50:04):
That'd be fabulous, So we hope everybody is inspired to
try the wines, visit the region of Erpinia. We're talking
about Campagna in southern Italy. We've kind of given you
an idea of how to get there. It's easy and
it's gorgeous. And always, as we close, we like to
remind everybody that we enjoy traveling the world to share
(50:26):
our findings with you. You can follow us at the Connected
Table on Instagram and our website and blog, and follow
all our shows on over sixty five podcast channels and
the Connected Table TV, and always stay insatiably curious
The topics and opinions expressed and the following show are
solely those of the hosts and their guests and not
those of W FOURCY Radio. It's employees are affiliates. We
make no recommendations or endorsements for radio show programs, services,
or products mentioned on air or on our web. No liability,
explicit or implied shall be extended to W four CY
Radio or its employees are affiliates. Any questions or comments
should be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for
(00:20):
choosing W FOURCY Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Welcome to the Connected Table Live. We're your hosts, Melanie
Young and David Ransom. You're insatiably curious culinary couple. We
enjoy traveling the world exploring wine, food, hospitality, and the
life we believe everyone should live, which is to eat well,
drink well. For people in the hospitality business, because it's
(01:02):
a great business to be in as we are. We
travel frequently to Italy and recently had the great opportunity
to attend a program called Campania Stories that really tell
us the stories of the producers and regions of the
beautiful region of Campania in southern Italy, which has rich,
rich history. We've been to Campania a few times, right.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
David, We've been a number of times.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Yes, So today many people go to Campania to go
to the coasts because the multi coast is dis gorgeous
and you want to see the sea. But we're taking
you inland to an incredibly historic area. It is filled
with mountains and it's very green, and some of our
favorite wines are produced there, right David. So we're going
(01:47):
to take you to an area called Abellino. It's a
province in Campania, to the region called Tufo. This is
where the famous Greco d Tufo DOCG white wine is produced.
And we have with us Ferranti di Soma of Cantina
de Marso, which is the oldest winery we've learned in
(02:09):
southern Italy, the great history and his ancestor Tiaponi di
Marso brought Tufo cuttings Greco cuttings, excuse me, from the
coast of Napoli to Tufo where he planted them, and
he's basically, you know, the patriarch of Greco de Tufo wines.
We're gonna learn a little bit more about this history
(02:31):
and talk about our recent visit to Campanna and to
Cantina de Marso with Ferranti di Soma. Welcome to the
connected table.
Speaker 4 (02:40):
Hello, thank you very much for having me.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Well, we're thrilled to have you and we had a
lovely visit at your winery a couple of weeks ago. Ferrante,
why don't you give us a little backstory on the
history of your family and how they came to be
in Tufo and working with wine and growing grapes.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
Okay, a few words. First of all, family, let's define
that because my surname is Disoma. The Disoma side is
a very ancient family. We date back to the thirteenth
century Neapolitan family. However, my grandmother on my father's side
was a Dimarzo classical thing. It was a title of marriage,
of title and money, which happened. My grandmother married in
(03:22):
nineteen twenty and that's how we entered the Dimarto family.
That's how I ended up with part of the shares.
The rest was basically acquired and gradually getting a larger
and larger share of the of the winery. So the
di Marto family, well, the first known ancestor Shipion Dimarzo.
(03:46):
We believe he left actually wasn't really the coast. He
was near Nola. Nola is a town which is halfway
between Naples and Avellino, on the flanks of the Vezuvion.
And he fled in sixteen forty seven. Than sixteen forty eight,
he fled an epidemic of plague and he came to Tufo.
(04:06):
And the story is that he brought this white variety
which he planted in Tufo. So this white variety took
a bit more in depth the Greco variety. It's very
difficult to prove the exact origins. I can give you
explanations which are very plausible. First of all, the Greco
(04:29):
grape was they first started talking of a Greco wine
around the tenth century because this area of Irpinia, Irpinia
is the province of Avilino. Basically, in a nutshell, Irpinia
was under Lombard domination. The Lombards were Germanic tribes that
(04:51):
actually originally Scandinavian tribes which traveled to Germany and in
the seventh century entered Italy and occupied practically all of Italy.
So we were a country of on the Lombard domination. However,
the coast of Naples, Sorrento was under Byzantine was a
Byzantine duchy. Naples was a Byzantine duchy. And for us
(05:14):
they were the Greeks. Byzantine Empire were considered Greek basically
by the Western Empire, and so for us they were
the Greeks. And on the coast they used to grow
more white varieties and they made this wine. By they
made a special wine which they started calling vino greco.
(05:37):
And this one consisted in letting the clusters weather on
the plant, on the vine, and they would make a
very high alcohol, high alcohol wine which reached sixteen eighteen percent.
This was very important in a time where cull fights
did not exist because this was a wine that could
be kept. Bear in mind that medieval wine, first of all,
(06:01):
it was probably not very very pleasant, and also that
didn't keep because they didn't have sulfites. We can say
the most horrible things about sulfites, but sulfites helped to
keep a wine stable. Sulfites are used also in the
food industry. They are very very bread. The important thing
is to limit as much as possible the amount. So
(06:21):
these wines without cul fites had a high alcohol content,
a high acidity. It was a wine there was exported
all the way to Constantinople, to France, and it was
an expensive wine because very low yield, because of the
withered grapes. And throughout the following centuries, they first of
(06:41):
all in Campania, they started growing more and more white
varieties and they and they kept this name vino greco
because it allowed you to keep a high price, because
it was considered a prestigious wine. If you look at
the really the important documents are basically the registries of
the evil monasteries in Campagna, because monks used to produce
(07:04):
and also deal a lot in wine, and you see
that they start using this term vino greco. By the
Middle Ages, the distinction was quite clear. Vino greco was
white wine, Vino latino was red wine. That was a distinction.
Let me go forward in time to the sixteenth century.
We have very interesting writings by Sante Lancheio. Santelancherio was
(07:27):
the boler. He was of the pope. Basically he was
in charge of all the wine of the pope, and
that was a big deal at the time. And Santelancherio
says that every day his holiness drinks a glass of
vino greco, and not only every day he rinses his
eyes and his manly parts with this wine. Don't know,
(07:52):
I have no explanation for that. But St. Lancherio writes
about different types of greco. He talks about Greco del Vizuvio, Greco, diposi, LiPo, Gregorskia,
Greco dirre, and gregor Dinola. So you see it's a white,
widespread term. He talks of wines because at the time
they didn't classify grapes. What's what is brings us to
(08:17):
what we should pay attention to the fact is the Grecordinola.
Because sam Paolo Belsito the hometown of Shipunity Maps, so
it's practically attached the Noola. So it's very likely and
plausible that Shipunity Maps brought the Gregordinola to two four
in the seventeenth century. Also, because you must know that
the seventeenth century was a was a pretty bad century
(08:40):
for Campania, because we had an eruption of the Vizuvian
sixteen twenty, we had a mega earthquake in sixteen eighty eight,
We had various outbreaks of plague where they say plague,
it could be smallpox, cholera whatever. At the time, they
didn't really basically people died and so there was a
lot of inside migration and a lot of the great
(09:00):
varieties in campaign you have traveled around and were distributed
throughout the territory, especially in that century. Interesting. So it's
very plausible that Shipioni di Maso brought the Greco Dinola
which he planted in Tufo where it found a specific soil.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Let's talk about that soil because Tufo is a type
of soil as well. So why did it flourish there
and what characteristics does it now give to this specific
Greco d Twufo.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
Okay, so for this I have to go back fifteen
million years, but don't worry, I'll go faster. Okay, Okay,
fifteen million years ago instead of Italy, we have the sea,
a shallow sea, and that's a period when the appennines
start to emerge from the sea as southern Italy becomes
an archipelago of islands. Following that, there's a phenomenon of erosion.
(09:55):
You have to imagine these hills, these mountains popping out
of the sea and there's a phenomenon of erosion which
brings sediments on the sea bottom. I go fast forward
to five point ninety six million years ago, the Great
Saline Crisis. What happened that at that time the African
(10:17):
continental plate decided to go upwards and closed what was
the equivalent of the Strait of Gibraltar at the time,
and the Mediterranean becomes a closed sea and in a
very very short time it evaporates, and you end up
having a land that probably must have looked like Utah
(10:37):
because of a lot of salt and the calcium carbonates, chalk,
magnesium carbonates, and the brimstone sulfur. Sulfur was caused by
Cettain bacteria during the evaporation, which extracted the sulfur from
the minerals from the soil. So they were important deposit
(11:00):
of the sulfur, as you've seen visiting the winery that
we had a mine of sulfur in the nineteenth century,
in the family, nineteenth and twentieth century. And so this
is one phase after which the continental played after about
what was it about five point three million years ago,
(11:22):
goes down again. The strait up Gibraltar opens up, and
it's really like opening a water tap. The Atlantic Ocean
comes gushing in and it's believed that it took just
between six months to two years to fill up the
Mediterranean again, which is a very geologically traumatic event. It's
a really in geological terms, it's a flash flood. And
(11:44):
so we're back to the archipelago of islands after that,
the except that on the sea bottom we have the
sediments and we have the carbonates. After that, the gradually
the global climate cools down, the sea level goes down,
the emergeres. But we're not finished yet because forty thirty nine,
(12:04):
forty years ago, there was this massive mega eruption of
the Campi Fligray, the Flagrain Fields. It is just north
of Naples. Now it used to be a volcano and
it's just a big caldera, which is giving us quite
a few problems now because it's getting active again. Well,
this eruption, you have to imagine this massive pyroclastic cloud
(12:28):
which goes over the Apennines, goes inland, covers the whole area.
Actually the plume went all the way to Siberia. That's
from the air. From land, we had rivers of lava
which came and covered and covered the soil and where
it encountered fresh water trying let's say, ponds or wherever
(12:52):
there was fresh water. The contact between this volcanic material
and the water alkaline water gave what you call zeolites,
which is a sort of a semi porous clay which
functions a bit as a sponge. It absorbs and releases humidity.
But you don't have it everywhere. You have in certain spots.
After which, we had another eruption of the always of
(13:14):
the flaggerined fields about ten thousand years ago, and we
got again all deposits of a volcanic material. And then
we had the various eruptions of the Vizubia throughout the centuries,
which brought some pummer stone in certain areas, some ashes
in other areas. So you see we have a very
very diversified geological structure, which is the reason why I
(13:37):
vinify separately each each vineyard. I have a very Burgundy
style approach, because like in Burgundy, each plot of land
has its own geological structure, and each plot gives its
gives wines with its specific characteristics.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
I think that's a great really fascinating. As you're talking,
I'm thinking, how can it happened? Millennium go, and we're
going to have this happen again because we were seeing
eruptions and mean and recently erpted in Sicily, and the
flagrant fields are kind of rumbling. Now, you never know
when we're gonna have more climatic excitement other than what
we already here experiencing. Now we visited your key clue vineyards.
(14:21):
Why don't we talk about because they very they distinct,
they're very distinctive each one, and just for everybody listening,
this is an area you were inland. When you refer
to the flagrant fields and an Atholete, that's almost three
hours two and a half hours away.
Speaker 4 (14:35):
Right, No, actually it's it's about an hour one and
a half hours.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
The drive felt that way, but it's your inland and
you look around and there's you can see the Apennini
in the in the background and the hills, so it's
quite hilly. Let's talk about the because we tasted many
of rewinds, but let's talk about how this translates into
the wind eyes themselves and what is produced at Continda
(15:03):
de Mars. But before we do that, let's just again
underscore that your family's winery is considered the oldest in Campagna, right, Yes,
and one of the oldest in Italy correct.
Speaker 4 (15:18):
Probably well in Tuscany you have you know Johanni his
winery I think is one thousand years old. I'm only
four hundred years old. Competing.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
Okay, you're a baby. Well, but significant history. And again
it's considered the birthplace of Greco to Tufo. So let's
talk about your different clue vineyards and how they are
distinct in terms of topography and the wines produced.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
Okay, so let's consider the first of all, all this
has been the result of the extensive studies by geologists,
because gentle Madicurio, our winemaker, has a brother, Marianno, who
teaches geology at the University of Benevento, and one of
his students decided to do a thesis the influence of
(16:13):
soil on the production of wine, and they made us,
gave us the honor of being there, let's say, their
guinea pig or their case study. So we had the
geologists who came over and we started digging in each vineyard.
We took some samples of soil, samples of grapes. We've
analyzed the soil to see what's in there. We've analyzed
(16:33):
the grapes throughout four different vintages, and we did a
panel of tastings. We had to come out with a
little leaflet for so that it's comprehensible, because if you
look at the study, it's pretty tough to understand. It's
all mathematical functions. I didn't understand much. I understood the maps.
So what I did see is that there's basically the
(16:54):
three main components of our soil are clay, carbonate and zeolites.
These are the three things, and each vinyard has different
proportions of the one or the other. And what I
can say, so if we take the different crews, for example,
the Vigna Serne is the one that is most complete
(17:18):
with the three things. It's got. It's packed with zeolites,
it's packed with clay, and is packed with with cobinants,
and that's that. Wine is much more on the muscle,
it's much more on the power end of things. We
have Lauri, for example, much more academic, much more greco
(17:40):
by the book, which is basically it's just clay and corbonates,
no zeolites. We have the Murino Gardino, which is very
prone to aging, very rich in zeolites. Uh and are
quite rich in in clay, and we have the which
is very poor in zeolites, rich in clay, and relatively
(18:03):
rich in cobonates too.
Speaker 2 (18:06):
And that results in wines with very distinctive aromas and flavors.
What let's just talk about for our listeners and viewers,
what distinguishes the aromas and flavors and the and the personality,
as we say of Greco de Tufo. And we always
(18:27):
also like to say it's similar to or if you
like this, because we're we deal with a lot of
sharpenay drinkers in the United States, and we're always trying
to say, let's try something else. So let's put it
into context in terms of what you expect in your mouth.
Speaker 4 (18:44):
Okay, First of all, I know it's not fashionable anymore
to talk of minerality, at least in Italy. They're sort
of doing this thing. Oh, minerality doesn't exist. I believe
it does exist.
Speaker 2 (18:53):
Oh we love minerality, Oh we love it.
Speaker 4 (18:56):
And how they prefer to talk of flinty rather than
let's forget about the polemics. It is a very mineral wine.
It's supposed to be very mineral. It's very savory wine,
practically salty. It's a high acidity wine. Do not expect
a typical wine of a very very hot country. We
are much more in the style, much more towards Trentino Alto,
(19:19):
if not even as us. If we were to be
put in a category, I would put us in the
category of the reestlings, something between a reestling and a cheblis.
You know.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
I think that's an interesting context to put it into
because when we went to Urpinia, Orpinia is inland, and
it's and it's kind of in the rain shadow of
the first set of mountains after Vesuvius, So it's a
it's a humid region, and it's a green region as
opposed to the coastal areas which are very hot and
dry and struggle. But this is actually a very fertile
(19:54):
region and so the grapes really present differently by being
grown there.
Speaker 4 (19:58):
Yes, absolutely, the climate is very unpleasant for people, at
least in winter. Very I have memories of my childhood
when we went to the villain Avellino we didn't have
heating yet and getting into the bed where you had
these practically damp bed sheets, but very good for wine.
It gives us crisp wines, and you're absolutely you're right.
(20:20):
We're in the middle of the Apennines. The Apennines, I
wouldn't say protect us, but prevent the air from the
sea from reaching inside. So this mitigating effect of the
sea of the sea climate. We're more continental, rainy, they say,
like they have been. Yeah, and much colder in winter.
(20:43):
Sometimes we reach like eight nine degrees celsius. I know
what that is in pharaonhit difference between naples, So it's
what eight nine degrees celsius would be, something like what
thirty degrees pharanhit more or less something like that. Yeah,
and you do get snow there, Oh we get snow here, Yes,
(21:04):
not in these last years, but so we do get
and when it snows, it snows heavily.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
Looking at our respective notes, which are looking down, you know,
I see, you know, minerality comes up in both of
our notes. Stupidity, floral characteristics as to the reasoning and aspect,
and also just that flinty stoniness as well.
Speaker 4 (21:28):
And also herbal Yes, vegetation, a lot of well, a
lot of vegetation, like yeah, BRINGI and bush, these kinds
of aromas. And I had this epiphany recently when I
was doing the tasting with so many years of the
ice for our for our study on the geology and
all that, And while I was tasting, I was thinking,
(21:50):
my god, this is not minerality. This is herbs, this
is wild vegetation.
Speaker 3 (21:56):
It flash, it's got that in Provence.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
The girl the I call it scrub and and I
have an every single one of my notes here scrub, Mediterrane,
herbly and And you know, often when I taste wines,
and don't about you, David, but I always always look
around when we're in the vineyards, I look at all
the plants and the scrub and the natural wildflowers because
those in part into the wine, particularly that mented that
(22:22):
garrig as they call it. We we just so you know,
we had we brought two bottles back and we had
the Vigna Laurie uh the other night with a beautiful
pompino uh. And it was we seared Pompinau fish. It's
a it's a golf fish, it's a white fish. And
we had it with I forgot you made it, David,
(22:45):
What did.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
You make it? Well, it was it was with it
was with onions, fentyel garlic and and crab meat over
the top.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Of the tearing was Spectacu. One of our guests was
a chef, and he said, this is just the most
perfect parrot.
Speaker 4 (22:57):
Oh that's good to hear.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Yeah, it's just blew everybody away. We also, yeah, two
other things we want to touch on and then wilmore
family history. We understand you're also a first in bringing
meado classical wines to the area. Is that true.
Speaker 4 (23:13):
That's true. The first time we did a metal claud
nineteen twenty six, because what was the situation at the time.
Southern Italy was selling a lot a lot of bulk
wine to France because France was hit by Philosia in
eighteen seventy five, where you had these French wine growers
(23:34):
that brought some vines from the US that were infected
with filosa and as we all know, it destroyed about
ninety percent of Albinians in the world basically, and Philoxa
arrived much later here in It arrived only in the
around the nineteen twenties thirties, where they had already discovered
(23:54):
the grash system. So for all those years before they
started using the grass system, you see those sad pathetic
attempts of French wine growers. You see those old tools
where they were trying to spray sulfur smoke inside the
soil to stop the philoxura. Bear in mind that at
the time, average consumption in France was about one hundred
(24:17):
and fifty liters per inhabitant per year, which is massive
nowadays in Italy. In France they're below fifty. In Italy
they're just below forty. To give you an example, I
think Washington, DC, which is the highest wine consumer in
the US, the consumption average consumption per inhabitants is around
fourteen liters.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
So you didn't know that, Washington DC. That's surprising to me.
Speaker 3 (24:41):
All those congressional parties, I guess.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Exactly all those parties and so.
Speaker 4 (24:49):
People used to drink a lot of wine. They used
to drink a lot of plank with it. I mean,
it wasn't very high quality wine, but it was part
of the nutritional sphere. The work would stop for lunch,
would pull out a huge sandwich, a liter of red
or white, and that would make his day. Nowadays people
drink much less. They drink much better, but they drink
(25:09):
less well.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
A lot of that also was way back then water
was not safe to drink.
Speaker 4 (25:16):
Well, I mean in the nineteenth century. By then water
was pretty safe. That was okay, But you can't interrupt
good habits exactly, especially in France in that case. And
so you had to feed this market. And we had
our director. His name was Fiori Buttiglieri, which sounds like
(25:39):
a joke in Italian because Bigieri sounds like bottle for
a man who manages a winery. It's a perfect surname.
And the Foi Botillieri developed contact with the French. First
of all, he brought the grey or pruning system here
in Upenia, because before our peasants used to grow, used
(25:59):
to grow the vines with the system of rajia. You
know what, you have two vines that cross over on
the top of pergola, because that would allow to plant
veggies in between. And so he brought the greio much
more systematic, higher quality, lower yield. And also he developed
contact with the French. He worked with us from nineteen
(26:20):
nineteen until nineteen fifty eight, and so he developed this
contact with the French, and he saw that our bulk
wine was being used also for cuts of champagne. So
that's how he had the idea, let's make our own
sparkling wine, which came out under the name Torrifaval in
nineteen twenty six. So next year we have the centennial
(26:41):
and we're coming out with our fourty eight months an
eventy sparkling congratulations, thank you.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
I know. We had something called the nineteen thirty.
Speaker 4 (26:53):
Yes, nineteen thirty, which is a younger version dedicated to
my dad who left us in twenty ninety eight. I
had to process my morning through wine dedicated to him,
because he really kept the winery alive, mainly alive, but
he kept it alive when in the eighties and nineties
and two thousands and so I wanted to do that
(27:17):
for him. So this one is eighteen months on lease.
It's avoid nut to you, while the event is forty
eight months and a nixtaboid.
Speaker 2 (27:25):
We liked it a lot. We had to get nices cidity.
I love brute nature wines. They tend to be Actually,
we had a recent interview with another winery, Billa French
a Korda, and they were saying that more of their
customers are drinking brute mature. It's becoming it's growing in
popularity because people want lower or no dosage. We'll talk
a little bit about your family and the process, but
(27:47):
we do want to bring up another one we tasted
that we also brought back that you're experimenting and Flora
with talk to us about this because there's a wonderful
backstory to it. With your family.
Speaker 4 (27:59):
Which wine are you talking of?
Speaker 2 (28:00):
The de Demosh which is named it's the cousins or
there's two sisters or something.
Speaker 4 (28:08):
No, they're my two little twins. I'm a very dad.
I have to do six year old twins, a boy
and a girl, and I wanted to dedicate a wine
to them. And this is the wine that is vinified,
mastrated and aged in amphora, in this big clay amphora
of eight hundred of six hundred liters. We were a
(28:28):
bit of victim of our success because we only have
three hundred and fifty bottles left. It just went out
just in a flash. And well we have twenty twenty
two that's coming up next year, so and I'm planning
on increasing the quantities. So this is a I call
it my neolithic wine because it's very very simple. The
grapes arrived grapes from Vigne Laure. We just put them
(28:52):
in the in the in the amphora, pressed it, let
it mascerrate for a month, racked it.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Uh.
Speaker 4 (29:01):
We put the wine back in on lease for a
year and then about two years in the bottle. Because
another feature that we haven't talked about the agent potential
of the greco, which is massive. I'm really talking. This
is wine that can last twenty thirty years and it
just becomes better and better, just like. That's why I'm
(29:23):
I were saying we're in the category of the reeslings,
because these are wines that develop these tertiary notes, you know, hydrocarbons,
but mixed with dried fruits. It really becomes a symphony
of of aromas.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
I wish we had tasted more aged to grecos. We
really didn't. This trip well all about it was all
about the new releases.
Speaker 4 (29:47):
And everybody's running all the time. Quick quick, quick here there.
You should come over and just chill.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
And we can take slow tourism. So diddy on us
twenty dinnanus dinner twins. It means twin.
Speaker 4 (30:06):
As Mary.
Speaker 2 (30:08):
It's a beautiful wine. I got notes of saffron and
orange peel and lemon. It just musky. I loved it.
I love this wine, and I can see where it
would have a lot of appeal right now, and then
you're going to create another version for the other twin.
Speaker 4 (30:23):
Right, yes, I have to do also a red one.
That's a work in progress. We just got the second
and we have to work on it. Anyways, Well, it's
not going to come out before about three years, if
not four, so we have time for that. The reason
why I did this demos, the way I see it
now when I tasted it, it's that we opened the
(30:45):
door on a whole new dimension of the Gregorio, whole
new direction, a completely different world of aromas. Here, we're
much more on the practically, we're on the verge of
mentholated notes. I don't know whether you've noticed ultra balsamic
really medicinal herbs. That's why I wanted to age it
one extra year. I was. All the winery were after me,
(31:08):
telling me we got to release it, We got to
release it. I said, not yet, not yet. We waited
an extra year so that the the the palettes of
aromas sort of blended better together.
Speaker 2 (31:21):
It's beautiful wine.
Speaker 3 (31:21):
It's a lovely wine. We brought some back, did bring
a bottle back with us.
Speaker 4 (31:26):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
I think it's now you have three hundred and forty
nine bottles left, but we're very excited that we were
able to bring some back with us. You know, you
touched on red a minute ago, and Erpinia, where the
winery is located on a large scale, is Aglianico country
in a big way. Tarrasi's there, et cetera. But you
actually grow the only Aleanico in Tufo.
Speaker 4 (31:47):
I'm at least I'm one of the really crazy ones
to have steel vineyards here because it's a lot of
work to manage. I mean, I'm happy with the quality,
it's just that it's a lot a lot of work
to fight against the potential rots and things like that.
So we have to be very careful in the pruning.
(32:09):
And now we're changing the pruning so that we have
the cluster that falls a bit more, because before it
was basically sitting on its bub and there was a
risk of rots at the bottom of the cluster. So
we've changed the pruning so that it falls more, it's
more ventilated. The problem with that lank has got it's
got a very thin skin and it's very prone to rot.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
So and you and you're in and you're in tight
hills as well, in in in your in Tufo, in
your particular region, I noticed it was it was steep
and they were close together, so there's obviously there's less
air movement. I would think then there would be in
a in a more wide open space.
Speaker 4 (32:47):
So that doesn't help.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
Yeah, yeah, it does better in other parts of Alorino.
It's just you know, because we traveled around tasting and
it's it's a beautiful red grape and red wine. That's
a saying about furnishing.
Speaker 4 (33:02):
Well, that's the reason why they grow aliado mostly around
Taasi and these other villages. Hey, it's more open, it's
more ventilated, it's cooler. Uh so the grapes stayed drier. Mhm.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
It's strange. Just and and you know, Amily is a
very it's bigger than we were called.
Speaker 5 (33:22):
You should Talkina is just the capital of Europeia. Okay,
so it's Erpinia, which corresponds more or less to the
province of Avellino.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
You know, it's confusing on the maps, I'll be honest
with you. You know, to spend Erpinia and there's amazing producers there.
I mean, we've I think this was for me my
second or third visit, but we missed the Campana stories
that was centered in Urpinia, which was unfortunate because it
would have been wonderful. You know, is it well churisted?
(33:56):
I know people can visit Contino to Marzo. Do you
get a lot of visitors.
Speaker 4 (34:01):
We get a lot of American visitors. Thank god.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
They might think, oh good, well that's that's good.
Speaker 4 (34:08):
Very polite, very interested. They love drinking, and they always
buy wine. So I'm happy.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
So Tufo is you know, Gregor, the Tufo is the wine.
But Tufo is its own village, and your family had
an incredible impact on how this historic village evolved. You
touched on briefly the sulfur mines, but it was your
(34:38):
family's discovery. I think Donato discovered on horseback, discovered the
sulfur mines. Talk to us about that.
Speaker 4 (34:46):
Francisco discovered the mines Donato. Donato brought the railroad. So
eighteen sixty six, Francisco dimto while he was riding on
his land near the river Sabato, he saw some shepherds
that had made a fire, bonfire, and he noticed that
in the bonfire they were burning stones from the smell.
(35:08):
He understood that they were burning pieces of brimstone. He
understood that his land was very rich with this mineral,
and so he started this mining activity, which lasted more
than one hundred years from eighteen sixty six until nineteen
eighty four because the mind ran out. And then they
discovered you could obtain a liquid sulfur from as a
(35:30):
byproduct of all refining, so a fraction of the cost.
But through all the nineteenth century it was a very big,
big deal. Sulfur was very important for gunpowder, for matches,
for agriculture, and so that made it pretty much well,
let's say it improved the fortune of the Demats, who
were pretty well off before that, but then before that
(35:53):
they made their wealth basically through interesting marriages. Let's say
that's very calm.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
But you know what was we toured the old sulfur
mine and there's a monument to Agustinato or is it
to Francisco and it's still there, and the old railroad
because you built the railroad. It was an important rail site,
can you think about Yeah, And at some point I
read that the company employed five hundred people, so it
(36:24):
was an important economic impact on the village. Of Tufo.
Speaker 4 (36:27):
We even reached six hundred people. With the indirect employees
like brick labors and all that, we reached eight hundred.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
Amazing.
Speaker 4 (36:37):
At its peak, TUFO had three thousand inhabitants. Now TUFO
has barely eight hundred.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
Maybe they need to start selling off houses cheaply to
get people invest cheap.
Speaker 4 (36:48):
So if you have some here, I can tell you
can buy a house for ten thousand euros.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Yes, that's what they're doing. Well, it's a shame that
it all died. There was this amazing prosperity and then
it all kind of went away because of changes in
sourcing because sulfur is also it's so important for so
many things. The palace Cassello Palace that we visited, what
(37:15):
was that historically before it became and let's talk about
the amazing network of underground sellers in it. And this
is where we did our tasting.
Speaker 4 (37:23):
So originally was part of the fortifications pasquality mats at
the end of the eighteenth century beginning of the nineteenth century.
He he let's say, he gentrified this military structure because
he had this very good idea of getting married, becoming
(37:45):
a widower and getting remarried, so it's a double dowry,
which is very interesting. And we found in a because
we have loads loads of all documents eighteen nineteenth century
and we saw that Donato, that's pasquality Mats started purchasing
at the very beginning of the nineteenth century. He started
buying land like mad he started investing a lot. He
(38:07):
really increased the patrimony of the family and then came
in eighteen sixty six the mind which added an extra
extra income to the family. All this until let's say,
things started going downhill after the Second World War. First
of all, because it was not the branch, because before
(38:32):
that the business was managed mostly by my great grandfather
Vito Dimpta, who was very, very capable in business. Then
when he died in nineteen forty three, it passed over
to the other branch of Marino Dimaptso, who was not
as good as an entrepreneur as his cousin, and so
things started going downhill. Plus you add to that that
(38:53):
the de matter were very fertile and prolific, so you
have very often you have ten twelve children, and unfortunately
we have Nippoleonic law where things have to be divided
among all the children, so that the property started being
more and more fragmented, and we reached a point at
a certain moment when we had the winery there were
forty owners and nothing could be done. So my life's
(39:17):
work was rebuild the equities so to concentrate them in
a larger chunk, so that somebody could make the right
all the wrong decisions, but at least making the decisions.
Speaker 3 (39:34):
So you took it upon yourself to actually consolidate and
take over management and ownership of it.
Speaker 2 (39:41):
Yes, and you have quite an international business background. I mean,
you've lived just a little bit about you. You've lived
in England and France and Russia. Just about your background
and what were you doing all that time?
Speaker 4 (39:54):
Well, in England. I arrived in England in nineteen sixty
nine and I was four and I lived there for
seven years. After that we moved to Paris, where I
lived there for about twenty years or something until nineteen
ninety two. Nineteen ninety two, I decided I want to
go and live in Russia. I wanted to see the world,
(40:15):
adventure and all that. I wanted to see the changing world.
So I learned Russian and I went to live there,
and I stayed there for five years and after that,
in a nutshell, I'll give it short, I've been working
and traveling between Paris, Milan and Moscow. I had a
business in outdoor advertising, a whole different thing, and in
(40:37):
two thousand and three I decided I did a master's
degree in Burgundy in wine trade, and because I knew
I was going to take over the winery sooner or later.
In the meantime, while the situation was maturing, I worked
as a wine agent specialized on the Russian market for
seven years and I sold a lot of French and
Italian wines there and then I took over here. I
(41:00):
closed Paris, definitely might close my flat in Paris. On
the first of November two thousand and nine. I came
to live in Naples and Avellino.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
On a background and you know, we I can only
imagine what it would be like to live in Russia.
I mean, we can't go there really, so I must
have been incredible experience, incredible experience. So you have a
great responsibility now very thinking it. What is your vision?
Speaker 4 (41:29):
My vision? My vision, first of all was to shift
our wine, our winery, because when I took over, we're
basically selling only in the winery and in a chain
of the retail stores of supermarkets in northern Italy. Very
low cost. And I have to say that when I
took over the winery, our wine had become I'd even
(41:50):
say embarrassing.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
Where do you Oh, well, he just disappeared. But we
are waiting to hear from Ferranti to Soma, again, from
Kntina to Marso, and here he comes back. I think
we're talking with Ferranti to some of Katina to Marso.
(42:18):
This is a place you can visit. It is and
we highly recommend.
Speaker 3 (42:24):
And it's not it's a beautiful area. It's not too
far from as we said, Naples. It's about an hour away,
right and.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
You need a car, You need a car, you need
to get Yeah. I think you can arrange tours as well.
But it's a very small village. I think the highlight
really is going to Contina to Marsa. But there's so
many fantastic wineries in Urpinia and the wines. I mean,
you touched on Tarassi, which is a whole other topic
from where we are here with Kantina to Marsa, but
(42:52):
just beautiful red wines. I think that that was like
my eye opener when we were there this past trip,
and it was really quite fantastic.
Speaker 3 (43:02):
And also you're in the home in two you're actually
in the home of Greco de Tufo, right, I mean
that's you know, that's a bucket list thing for a
lot of people who love white wines, especially the white
one to Capa, I think to be able to go
and experience that well, and we.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
Touched it because it's not this topic, but this area
also is known for the Fiona de Avellino, which is
another topic for another time, but another phenomenal white wine
produced in Orpinia, which is the region we're talking about,
which is Inland. I'm hoping we can get for Ronte back.
I see his screen flickering a bit, so we'll see.
(43:37):
But in the meantime, just a little bit about uh
one we just briefly touched with Companya Stories is a
wonderful program has been going on for several years to
with the Reggioni Compagna and several organizers including Myriad partners,
and what they do is they bring journalists over to
Companna and they showcase one area where we're all based.
We were actually in Urgulano and the area where we
(44:01):
had visited and spent a lot of time a few
years back. And then we have the option of touring
and visiting wineries throughout Campanya Fromandi touched on the Flagrant Fields,
which I know there was a field trip there and
they are kind of rumbling right now with volcanic activity.
We chose Erpinia because we had missed the Compania Stories
(44:22):
program that focused on Opinia and we wanted to go
back in and do a little deep up and I
think we saw maybe five four or five wineries when
we were there. Every year it changes, and we're so
grateful to be able to go to Companya Stories because
it is such a fascinating region. Many people just go
and fly in the Naples and eat the pizza and
(44:44):
have the food and go down to the Malfy coast,
but there's so much more to see it. I mean,
you've got Pompeii, You've got Vesuvio, you have the Flagrant Fields,
you have Caserta, you have Erpinia, and they're all different,
and the wines are all different in the areas, they're
very unique. I don't know if we're going to get
(45:05):
for Ronte back, so what we may have to do
is just wrap.
Speaker 4 (45:10):
Can you hear me?
Speaker 2 (45:13):
Well, welcome back.
Speaker 4 (45:14):
Well, I know what happened. Somebody's pestering me with WhatsApps
and things like that, and I think it into not me.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
While we lost you. We were just talking about how.
Speaker 4 (45:25):
I heard you. I could hear you.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
Oh good. Well, you know we have a little bit
of time left. You were going to just talk about
the vision. I think we we'd like to just talk about,
you know, the vision of Cantina and Marzo to the future.
And also again we want people to visit the region
and experience it. So how can they do that?
Speaker 4 (45:46):
Okay, First of all, I'd like to message to all
of you. Are you tired of pin?
Speaker 2 (45:55):
Thank you?
Speaker 3 (45:56):
You know I've been saying for years Fronte that there's
two regions that make the best white wines in Italy,
and that's Northeast and southwest. And when I speak of Southwest,
I'm talking about Campana.
Speaker 2 (46:07):
Yeah, just phenomenal. If you probably heard us some waxing
poetic about the Fiano Velinos and we did mention the
following really the eye opening white wines. Although this trip
I did taste some tarasses that met me go maybe
go whoa take a look there? Uh and then as
David referenced, the northeast, we love the ones of freely
just that whole area just fabulous. So anyway you said,
(46:34):
if you if you're sick of Pinot, Grisio had tried
Greco to Tufo. Okay, and and and watch and you know,
how can our fans and followers book opposits? And where
do they stay? Is there? Do you offer accommodations or
do you have to say elsewhere? What would you what
would you propose? And how would you visit the linery?
Speaker 4 (46:56):
No? I would propose First of all, Okay, you landed Naples,
you can also land in Salai because Slena maybe see this.
Most you need a car though, that's the only thing
because unfortunately here we have our well, I don't have
to The infrastructures here are still pretty much from knuckle
draggers and.
Speaker 5 (47:16):
So with.
Speaker 4 (47:18):
It's unless you can take a bus to Avilina, but
then from a Vilina to Tufas and Nina. So you
need a car unless you call me because I live
in Naples, so I come here every day so I
can always catch somebody and bring him over. And you
just need to warn us a couple of days in
advance sending an email, and we're very happy to show
you around the winery. We have different formulas of visits
(47:41):
according to how many wines you want to taste, how
much you want to visit. It's I do personally the
English visit. If I really can't, then there's Ileonara who
speak very good English. And it's not that difficult, I mean,
And it's nice because you're really very much off the
beaten tracks of tourism.
Speaker 2 (48:01):
It is really on the beaten track and well worth it.
And the underground sellers are just so historic and beautiful.
In this giant palazzo which is where you now do
the tasting, it's not a lived in palazzo anymore. It's
a historic place where and a big centerpiece of the village.
Speaker 4 (48:17):
My headache and my nightmare because I really have to
do something with it, but I need a few million
euros to restructure it.
Speaker 3 (48:23):
Yeah, it's really large, but you're actually still making the
wine and the cellars there, so that's it. It's one
of the winers I love because they didn't all of
a sudden, say abandon the old building and then build
a new one. You're actually still in there making the wine.
And it's a nice testament to the building.
Speaker 2 (48:41):
Just bring really good walking shoes because it's perfectly honest.
Speaker 4 (48:46):
Retrospectively, it would have been much cheaper for me to
build a modern winery on the side of the street
and keep this for tourists.
Speaker 3 (48:53):
Probably probably, well there is that it does still have
that potential future.
Speaker 2 (48:59):
It is find it imposing edifice, as we say, just
for our listeners. The website is Cantina c A T
I canteen a with an E D martso m A
R c O.
Speaker 4 (49:11):
Like march right, Yes, dot I T yeah.
Speaker 2 (49:14):
Dot I T can canteene mars dot I T yep.
Speaker 4 (49:20):
And you can have also in English.
Speaker 3 (49:24):
Yeah, yes, it's got a great website and it is
in English as well.
Speaker 2 (49:27):
Yeah, and you'll see some beautiful photos. Well, you know,
for Auntie, we know you're really busy, and we're so
glad you joined us.
Speaker 4 (49:32):
Really, it's really nice having a chat rather than going
through my through all this paperwork.
Speaker 2 (49:38):
Oh well, we're glad we mate, we're a highlight of
your day. A.
Speaker 3 (49:41):
We were thrilled to be able to visit your winery
and spend time with Eleanora who was who led us
through the tasting and gave us the tour of the
vineyards as well, and then also to be able to
speak with you today, So thank you so much for
joining us again.
Speaker 4 (49:53):
I hope you'll come and visit again, and then I
hope I'll be available this time and you're around and
we can we can open a few bottles that are
quite fun to try.
Speaker 3 (50:03):
We'd love to do that.
Speaker 2 (50:04):
That'd be fabulous, So we hope everybody is inspired to
try the wines, visit the region of Erpinia. We're talking
about Campagna in southern Italy. We've kind of given you
an idea of how to get there. It's easy and
it's gorgeous. And always, as we close, we like to
remind everybody that we enjoy traveling the world to share
(50:26):
our findings with you. You can follow us at the Connected
Table on Instagram and our website and blog, and follow
all our shows on over sixty five podcast channels and
the Connected Table TV, and always stay insatiably curious
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce
Football’s funniest family duo — Jason Kelce of the Philadelphia Eagles and Travis Kelce of the Kansas City Chiefs — team up to provide next-level access to life in the league as it unfolds. The two brothers and Super Bowl champions drop weekly insights about the weekly slate of games and share their INSIDE perspectives on trending NFL news and sports headlines. They also endlessly rag on each other as brothers do, chat the latest in pop culture and welcome some very popular and well-known friends to chat with them. Check out new episodes every Wednesday. Follow New Heights on the Wondery App, YouTube or wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen to new episodes early and ad-free, and get exclusive content on Wondery+. Join Wondery+ in the Wondery App, Apple Podcasts or Spotify. And join our new membership for a unique fan experience by going to the New Heights YouTube channel now!
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.