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August 13, 2025 45 mins
The area of Decugnano, formerly owned by the clergy during the Middle Ages, sits high on a hill in northeast Orvieto. In 1973 Claudio Barbi acquired the land to plant vineyards, naming his winery Decugnano Dei Barbi. He embraced modern winemaking and was the first vintner in Orvieto to produce both metodo classico sparkling wines and Pourriture Noble, the first wines in Italy made from botrytis-affected grapes. His son, Enzo Barbi, continues his legacy at Decugnano Dei Barbi.

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Episode Transcript

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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The topics and opinions expressed in the following show are
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those of W FOURCY Radio. It's employees are affiliates. We
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comments should be directed to those show hosts. Thank you

(00:20):
for choosing W FOURCY Radio.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
Hello and welcome to the Connected Table Live. We're your hosts,
Melanie Young and David Ransom. You're insight shully, curious, culinary couple,
read being you the amazing people who work front and
center and behind the scenes around the world in wine, food,
spirits and hospitality. We share with you where we eat,
where we drink, where we explore, and what inspires us

(01:03):
to inspire you to expand and explore beyond your comfort
zone and discover new and amazing places to travel, eat, drink,
and of course meet really amazing people. Well, we have
a virtual background again and we are now at where David.

Speaker 3 (01:20):
We are in Orvieto. In Umbria in Italy, which is
about two hours maybe an hour and a half.

Speaker 4 (01:24):
North of Rome, in the region of Umbria, which is
the landlocked region of central Italy. It's called the green
Heart of Italy. And we're in Oorvieto today.

Speaker 5 (01:33):
So it's our virtual background.

Speaker 2 (01:35):
But we were recently in Orvieto, which is a very
famous city because this beautiful cathedral. The cathedral is where
the popes, several popes lived when they were summering or
maybe in exile during the different eras, and so this

(01:56):
cathedral is very sacred and holy and a wonderful to visit.
Another thing interesting about Orvietto before we introduce our guests,
is that the city sits on this giant cliff of
Tufo rock. Tufa is important to the wall of wine
making and below are all these underground caves and you
can literally explore Orvieto underground and see these caves, many

(02:17):
of which are still in operation. Is small shops, some
are cantinas, and they're amazing.

Speaker 4 (02:23):
Yeah, it's interesting that we found that there. We were
told we took an underground tour in the caves underneath Orvieto,
you can kind of enter from the.

Speaker 3 (02:30):
Side or through buildings.

Speaker 4 (02:32):
But there are over a thousand caves underneath the city
of Orvieto, and about four hundred of them have been
renovated and kind of open to the public in certain ways,
or at least have access to them. There's others that
are now blocked off. But it's a very interesting story
and that they were originally excavated to help build the
city and then they use the empty space once it

(02:55):
was empty to do things like wine making, which we'll
talk about now, and then also raising pigeons, which was
also interesting to hear.

Speaker 2 (03:00):
So everyone put Orvieto on your travel list because we
can't wait to go back. And the wines are fantastic
and still they were discovered, then they kind of, you know,
became less out there, and now we think they're going
to be out there more because they are incredible wines
of good quality and value. We have a producer today
who comes from a very historic family, de Kenyanud Barbie

(03:22):
is in the northern part of Orboda, to the northeast,
very high on a hill, which we're going to talk
about why that's great for wines. This area has a
very long history and wine making It also was tied
to the clergy, which we'll learn about, but it was
brought back to life thanks to the vision of Claudio Barbie,
who basically acquired this abandoned property and started cultivating vines.

(03:47):
He's a man of many firsts, which we're going to
talk about. He introduced metado classico to Orvieto and the
botriatis concept, which is really interesting because it's one of
the few places in Italy that does. Buttriotus wines us
to talk about De Kunnanita Barbie, the area, his family
and the wines. Is Enzo Barbie, who we had the

(04:07):
opportunity to sit down with and meet when we were
in Orbeto. He now oversees this gorgeous wine estate you
can visit and welcome and so Barbie, thank.

Speaker 6 (04:19):
You so much for having me on the show. It's
great to be with you today.

Speaker 2 (04:23):
Well, it's good to see you again, and so it
really is. So let's take it back to your family.
Their family's from Brescia. First of all, for those who
don't know where Brescia is, where is Brescia in relation
to Umbria? And then how did the family end up
in Umbria?

Speaker 6 (04:40):
I know Brecia is in the north of Italy and
it's about four hours and a half drive from more vehicle.
So my family was originally there, and the story of
how my dad decided to put up some landa here
in your vehicle really goes back to the rules of
the family. My grandfather was a wine maker as well.
He had a facility in Brescia. Buddy he my father

(05:03):
didn't really get along with him and didn't manage to
work together so well. So my dad started to do
for a business to set up and to some land
to own and to plant vineyards and so on. And
one day he arrived in there Vieto. He were already
in new area because or Vietle we're talking about the
sixties nineteen sixties was an extremely popular white wine and

(05:27):
people were buying or Vietle throughout Italy and also brought
and my dad just visited a little bit area and
fell in love with it and decided that was the
place he wanted to have his own vineyards. He started
to look for some land and one day he arrived
in this abandoned hill called the Dequiano, which is a
weird name. We have no idea what Thequiano means. It's

(05:47):
just the name of a place for like eight hundred years,
and he decided to that was a place he wanted
to grow his buyings on and about the land, and
here we go. That was nineteen seventy three.

Speaker 4 (06:01):
You know, it's interesting because underneath the hill of Decaniano
is also some caves back into the date, back to
the Etruscan times. And we learned while we were over there, Melanie,
that the Etruscan Orvieto wines were very popular and were
shipped all over the Mediterranean at one point because because
it was such a famous wine making region.

Speaker 3 (06:19):
And they found.

Speaker 4 (06:21):
Clay pottery that had the Orviedo seal on it that
had been shipped around wherever in the Mediterranean was going.

Speaker 3 (06:28):
It was very interesting.

Speaker 4 (06:28):
And those some of those caves are on your property
as well, so you actually have some of the historic
Etruscan caves at Decano.

Speaker 6 (06:36):
Oh. Yeah, Truscan was an amazing civilization. I think we
don't know much about the Etruscans because they didn't build
a lot and when they built, they used mostly hood
and so most of very art facts are gone, like
buildings are gone. But it was an amazing civilization. But
eventually the merger with the Romans to when the Romans

(06:57):
arrived in r Vieto. But they left so many caves
they very like to dig. We have so many caves
around the Tuscany and Umbria UH and they're probably were
originally Etruscan tombs and uh or places where Truscan used
to make wine and we're still using them to uh
to make wine there nowadays. De Qunanda the barbie, it's.

Speaker 3 (07:19):
Free air conditioning for the ones.

Speaker 6 (07:21):
It is exactly.

Speaker 2 (07:22):
Yeah, So De con Unity Barbi is in the northeast
part where Bato. Let's talk about because we learned at
a tasting at the Consortio's office about the different four zones,
four five zones and how different they all are. What
distinguishes the area where De Kunyani the Barbie is and

(07:43):
how many wineries would you say, roughly are in this
area because it's it's remote, it's further out, but it's
still fairly easy to get to, but still further out.

Speaker 6 (07:53):
Yeah, exactly, as you said, the Vieta is a very
complex geological structure and they with many differences between the
areas of where the vineyards are orb it is not huge.
We're talking about two thousand actors. And we have a
northern part which is a clay area, predominantly clay fields.

(08:15):
We have the southern part with volcanic soils closure basically
where the volcanoes erupted back in two million years ago.
We have a part which is close to the river
Palia that is crossing the area of our Veeto. And
finally we have a northeast, as you said, the area
where my winer is, which is the most ancient in

(08:37):
the area, and basically it's an old sea bed. We're
talking about two point five million years ago, free million
years ago, so it's a very sandy soil with a
little bit of clay and lots of shells which are
not fossilized yet. To get them fossilized, I believe we
need to wait one millionaire more. But it's incredible. If

(08:58):
you walk in the vineyards, you see all these shells there.
And the amazing things about divines is that even after
so many years, basically that's the only plant that manages
to capture flavors of an old sea that was there
millions of years ago, and you find them now in
a bottle of wine or in a glass of wine
because wine after like a few months of aging, a

(09:21):
few years of aging, you can really taste the sea,
like the salin tea and the shells and the oysters
and so on.

Speaker 5 (09:29):
It's interesting, you know.

Speaker 2 (09:30):
We said and referenced that Umbria is landmarcked, thus Worrito's landlarcked,
and yet this area was covered by sea and volcanoes,
which was kind of like what when we went, like
that was a surprise for us. But we did tour
many vineyards and we saw all these amazing shells, the
collections of them, and it was fascinating.

Speaker 4 (09:50):
Yeah, there was one winery that actually, Vita Longo, which
is in the far north of the region of Orvieto,
for making wine. They had a huge display of the
shells in a case so everybody could look at them
and see and it was fascinating to see that they're
all still so intact as they dug them out of
the soil. And they also just lend so much fabulous

(10:14):
flavor to the wine minerality, et cetera.

Speaker 2 (10:17):
Absolutely so, and so your father and I'm gonna create
your father because I said, grandfather, grant your father Claudio right,
he is considered an innovator in Orvieto. We reference it
De Kunna Barbie as a warnery. At first, let's talk
about those innovations and why they're so important.

Speaker 6 (10:36):
Oh yeah, yeah, my dad passed away five years ago,
so I'm very happy that I can managed to talk
about him and what he has done in this area
and the winery. When he arrived at the Quinano in
the early seventies, he was a young kid at the time,
I think it was twenty three twenty four years years old,
and decided to purchase the land. But he traveled in

(10:57):
France before arriving in or Vieto and he did some
harvest there. It got some knowledge about wine making in
Fans and when you arrived in Orvieto you really wanted
to change things. I mean, it was a man of tradition.
Tradition for him was very important, so very respectful. What

(11:17):
the tradition was, the grapes and how make wine in
the old days was important. But in a way it
was also a visionary. It was a person that liked
to ask himself questions like why not why don't we
try to make this? People always make something in this way,
but why don't we try to trick the wine making

(11:38):
and see what we can get making something different. It
wasn't a visionary in a way. And so when you arrived,
for example, one of the first few vi integers I
was talking about nineteen seventy eight, he decided that why
don't we try to make a metado classical out of
or vito grapes. Nobody tried to do in a veto

(11:59):
classic stumante before him, and nobody was at the time
making sparkling wine in central Italy basically, but he had
some knowledge about sparkling wine because he was born and
raised in Brecia, which is next to FRENCHI Quorta, and
so it just applied in his knowledge to our vieto.
And we're still making our sparkling wine nowadays after fifty years,
and probably is one of our most successful wines that

(12:23):
is really requested by many many customers throughout Italy in
the world.

Speaker 4 (12:28):
I mean, really are wonderful too, Melanie, and you were
actually doing some disgorging and bottling while we were there
in one of the caves, which is where you and
down in the caves is where you actually store and
do the riddling of all the sparkling wine. Because the
temperature control is so good and so constant, so it's
nice to see that while we were there.

Speaker 2 (12:47):
Let's talk about your wines and the different styles of
metado classico you make. Let's start with the group mature,
the zero dosage, because we have been told by many
producers that that's like the inn sparkling.

Speaker 5 (13:02):
Wine for people.

Speaker 3 (13:02):
Now.

Speaker 6 (13:05):
Yeah, the zero dosage is a is a wine that
really represents you know, VI the war in a big way.
Vizero dosage is a I make two sparkling wine. The
brute is my like all style sparkling wine. Will be
making the brute version since the since the seventies, just

(13:25):
pretty dry brute. But about six clamps of liter sex
clums of sugar par liter and about fifteen years ago
is that you make of zero dosage. And what I
love about zero dosage is that since the predisli is
so it's so light, it's you managed to get really
down to bitter war and you can really really really

(13:47):
understand and feel the shells and descend and the and
the salt coming from the soil and h yeah, and
that's my zero dosage. It's made. We've shot on in Pinar.
It's about fifty percent shot fifty perir that we grow
on our soil. All the venards us have the same
soil in the Cunanda, so all the v years and
all the varieties that we'll mentioned today share the same

(14:10):
type of microclimate and components geological standpoint.

Speaker 4 (14:16):
You know, it's interesting that he's using the traditional Champagne
Champagne grapes that they use in Champagne for this wine.
There's a lot of indigenous Italian grape varieties that they
use in making their wines as well, but this is
this is the classic Chordena pino a war mix and
it was just delicious.

Speaker 6 (14:35):
Yeah. My dad started to with a grekketto back in
the second he's inciding to make a grek ketto sparkling
wine greketto and tribiano. But eventually introduced the shodena and
he just saw that the chodonnay was better when it
becomes to the sparkling, so introduced the shodona. Was a
chardonnad in Turbano for many years, and eventually we introduced

(14:55):
the pinon noir back in two thousand and six. That
really gives that kik that more of the structure that
makes the wine went notch better.

Speaker 4 (15:05):
So and you actually run the winery yourself. You're you're
you're the owner. Now how did you get involved in
the business. It was your father started making the wine.
But what intrigued you that you wanted to take this
and run with it yourself.

Speaker 6 (15:20):
Well, I didn't want to do this job first of all,
at the beginning, I didn't really but it was was
my dad's job, and I didn't want to work with him,
and like like in his I wanted to travel the world.
That was a young kid at the time. So I
decided to study business administration instead of studying in ology
and wine making. I started to work abroad for an

(15:41):
American multinational General Electric. And I work abroad for a
few years and and then one day something happened. I
was in a position but I didn't really like the time.
You know, when you get the wrong you're in the
position that you don't really enjoy the job, and you're
as a manager, you don't enjoy it to work with.
And so this I did just to to call my

(16:02):
dad and say, hey, why don't you why don't you
come back and help you out in the winery for
for a few months and see how we're doing. But
I was just homesick, and uh, I came back to
the winery and uh, after a few months, I just
completely fell in love with a job. And I believe
the soil like MAGNETI magnetic magneting power that was really

(16:27):
keeping you there. Once you are in contact with the nature,
in contact with the vice, in contact with your soil,
it keeps you really there. You can't leave your your land.

Speaker 2 (16:37):
Well, as they say in ge you you you brought
good things to life and then a light bulb went
over your head that you ready to leave the pack.

Speaker 5 (16:48):
You went to the land.

Speaker 6 (16:52):
Exactly.

Speaker 5 (16:54):
Let's talk about.

Speaker 2 (16:55):
So you make the zero dosage and the brute both
with and apen and warm blands.

Speaker 5 (17:01):
Correct, correct, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (17:04):
Let's talk about the white wines which are made with
the classic or Vieto grapes and the different styles because
you do a classical in the new superiority which you
should differentiate because superiori, as you and we know, means
something very specific in Italy that it doesn't mean in
other countries.

Speaker 6 (17:26):
That's correct. So superior is a bureaucratic term that is
defined by the law in Italy basically just indicates wine
with a lower ieled product, wine that was made from
grapes with a lower ieled productor higher in alicol content,
and usually as a long longer time of refinement in

(17:48):
bottle or in barrels. So also in orvieto you have
or vito classico and their vita classical superioria, which is
a wine usually with a higher percentage of alcohol and
more body, more structure, since it's coming usually from older
vineyards with lower ill practice. Also you have like bigger wines,

(18:09):
and I make two of it to classical. One is
a very vito classical. It's called the faamental fragment, referring
to a figment of shells. And the second or vita classical,
is a superiora or the too classical super superhiora, which
is a concert is considered my reserve, and it's called
the mare antico, which means ancient sea. And obviously obviously

(18:29):
both names are referring to the soil, just because for me,
the soil is so important when we're talking about the white,
white grapes and white wine that I really want everybody
just to understand how it's important the connection between the
quality and the style of the wine with the soil
where the wine is coming from.

Speaker 2 (18:48):
Absolutely, they're beautiful names and representative of the Tairwan. Let's
talk about the different blends because they're very distinct and
different blends. And also just the word classica, which means
that the grapes are the grapes are sourced from the classical.

Speaker 5 (19:02):
Region, right correct.

Speaker 6 (19:06):
Also this is another bureaucratic term defined by the law
in Italy. So classical is the old older region of production.
Not all theos in Italy at this classical region, but
some of them have, So are the county or Vieto right,
And I'm sorry. And classical is just the older part

(19:27):
of the Vieto. So if itto classical, we are in
Rito classical. My veers are in veto classical. So the
area closer to the old city of over Vieto, then
you have some vineyards around, which is a bigger area
where you can just make Orvieto wines and you can't
use the name classical and varrietals. They're similar varietals. The
rule to make our Vieto says that you need to

(19:50):
use specific grapes to make or veeto, which are local grapes.
Gregeto is one lava. One is Trebiano, also known locally
as prokanic, and these two grapes together need to amount
to sixty percent of a blend because Orvieto is a blend,
has always been a blend for centuries, and I know

(20:11):
it's probably not fashionable nowadays to have the blends, but
it has always been a blend. So we have these
two grapes, and then we can have some other grapes.
For example, in my famento, I like to add some vermentino,
which is a fantastic salinity, and some sodium blank that
just brings that bouquet and that more floral style to

(20:36):
the wine. On the marantiko side, instead we still have
the classical grape Grecetto and trebiano. I also use some
vermentino because again the salinity that gives the vermentina is fantastic,
and I also use it twenty percent chordenair, kind of
a similar reason why I'm using the solium blanc for framento.

(20:58):
The chardonnaire's role is just to bring more romatics to
the wine, because Grechecto and bochanico another of romantic grapes,
the beautiful body, beautiful structure, but sometimes they they need
some some of the grapes, especially for the nose part.

Speaker 3 (21:16):
And the Maria antico.

Speaker 4 (21:17):
You also age on the LEAs, which is the sentiments
of the fermentation for eight months prior to that, so
that helped add to the body of the wine as
well and gives it that richer character. And I think
the shortenay obviously, as we all know, does very well
with that too.

Speaker 2 (21:32):
Very nice one, very food friendly, I know. I when
we were there, I just lived on the local pasta.
What is the name of the local pasta with the
with the white truffles with an S right.

Speaker 6 (21:46):
It's called.

Speaker 5 (21:49):
Umbre Kelly.

Speaker 2 (21:50):
The one of s is in in Montefalco, umbre Kelly
and truffles. I lived on that.

Speaker 3 (21:55):
And for for our listeners that don't know, Umbria is
the land of truffles and good olive oil as well.

Speaker 4 (22:01):
We basically had truffles at least twice a day over
pasta or eggs or something because as as a lot
of people think.

Speaker 3 (22:09):
That eggs are the great way to have truffles as well.
So just over.

Speaker 2 (22:12):
Scrambled over plumba pigeon, plumba dove or pigeon pigeon Yeah, pigeon.

Speaker 6 (22:23):
In particular style of pigeon. Particular race of pigeon, not
the way you're finding the squares.

Speaker 5 (22:29):
That's good. Yeah, that's a specialty.

Speaker 2 (22:32):
And and and cachatory and and and it done catch
a tory style we learned.

Speaker 6 (22:39):
Oh yeah, we sent tomato sauce. Yeah, I love it.

Speaker 2 (22:43):
Yeah, it's so interesting when you travel. They've got the
wines tend to go well with the local foods. So
we always recommend when you travel, always have the local
wine with the local food and you'll have the best
gastronomic experience possible. We did that throughout all.

Speaker 3 (23:00):
Our trips, especially in every country we go to.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
Yeah, and that Mara Antiko is terrific. Let's talk about
the reds because I think in the United States probably
more people are familiar with orviet are white and less
so the reds. And we've discovered some amazing reds. So
let's talk about the ones that you produce.

Speaker 6 (23:22):
Yeah, or Beat, as you said, is a white wine region,
and red has always been cultivated, but just as a minority,
so I would say white. There has always been more
than ninety percent of production, and ten percent has been red.
So we started local producers to produce red more and
more back in the eighties and nineties when there was

(23:44):
a higher request for red and actually reds, I believe
they grow very nicely here. Most of the time there
are local grapes with blends of international grapes, just because
we started as producers in the area to plant international
grapes back in the eighties and nineties, so you started
to get Murlau and Cavernessugnon and Cabernet frank and so on.

(24:07):
And I make two reds here at the Quiana de Barbie.
One red is called Batito, which is a blend of Sangoves,
Cabernesgnon and Murlau. It's more of a pressure style. Is
a wine that as a barrel aging, but very very short,
like just six months of barrel aging, so the fruit
is very foot forward wine. And the second wine, second

(24:30):
red wine that I produce, is called eighty twelve twelve.
The name means Anno Domini twelve twelve, which is the
year when the name Dequnano appeared on the for the
first time on Britain documents. At the time was not
a winery, but it was a parish Saint Mary of
the Cuniano. And a funny fact is that the documented

(24:52):
heated twelve twelve that still exists and it's at the cathedral,
talks about some wine being made at the Quiano by
the two priests in charge of the place. So the
place existed, and we're making wine. So this wine, our
top red wine, is dedicated to just the wine makers
of the twelve twelve. And this wine is mostly Sira.

(25:12):
It's a sixty five percent Sierra with a bit of Cabernet,
Sauvignon and montepul channel Basia is really the driving force
behind this wine. And I'm a big fan of surroun
on my on my sewing in my area, I think
the series is great.

Speaker 2 (25:28):
Here we tasted some we tasted a few suras here
obviously we taste some more whites and reds, but the
surras showed really well here.

Speaker 5 (25:35):
You know, we all say show on on Arezzo.

Speaker 2 (25:37):
That's another area where we've seen some really great which
is not too far away, you know, in the scheme
of things speaking of multiple channel speaking and and really
really good.

Speaker 5 (25:48):
So you know, it's interesting.

Speaker 2 (25:51):
There are records that say that de qu Nana was
a parish or v as I say, and wine was
being made, which is really not surprising because that's the
way a lot of the clergy, the monks made wine
for the for ecumenical reasons and also they're probably to
enjoy themselves and sell it, you know, because the monks
and the nuts had to make money somehow to fund

(26:13):
the church. But you just still don't know what dekenano means.
I actually spent some time trying to find out myself
and didn't learn a thing.

Speaker 5 (26:21):
But I think.

Speaker 2 (26:23):
It's a great thing is keep trying to learn because
it's interesting. And you know, in Italy everything means something, right.

Speaker 5 (26:31):
So maybe dialect for something.

Speaker 2 (26:34):
So let's also talk about the Buttriotis wines, which have
a specific term we learned in or beetto, because that
was an eye opener for us that these wines are
made here. Many people know that these wines are the
style of wine is very famous in Bordeaux, in parts
of Bordeaux, like the saw Turn area. So the first

(26:56):
question is you know, and and it is Claudio Barbie
who brought this concept here because he worked in Bordeaux
at some point, correct, So let's talk about that, and
and then more importantly, why is this area conducive to
making these wines which require very specific growing conditions and

(27:17):
climatic conditions.

Speaker 6 (27:21):
Yeah, well, my dad started to make this wine in
in nineteen eighty one officially, but he realized a couple
of years before that, but tried is our noble rot
were just spreading a lot in his vineyards here in
r Vieto, And thanks to his studies in France, it
just immediately realized that it was not something bad, but
was something potentially potentially great, And so in nineteen eighty

(27:45):
one he started to make this one hundred percent noble
rots wine that he called the French name puritle, just
as an homage to the to the to the not
how the French called the noble rot poitub and and
and yeah it is, I believe the only place in
Italy but officially is recognized and as an area where

(28:08):
noble rods spreads, uh spreads a lot and you're you
can make a wine out of noble road affected grapes
and uh yeah, the climate here is is is well
or or was I'll tell you why I'm using the
past now. But it was great till a few years ago,
just with especially in September October, you have great fogs

(28:29):
in the morning and then beautiful sunny and windy days
and that's a perfect condition for the noble rock to develop.
But the noble rout needs it cannot stop and go,
so you need humidity at night, and then he needs
to stop. And this stop and go allows the noble
rod to spread from one berry to the other, and

(28:49):
like from and from one grape to the second grape,
and from one vine to the other wine together vine.
And when the vineyard as a certain amount of noble rot,
we start harvesting just the grapes with the noble rods.
So it's it's very long. A harvest can take like

(29:10):
three or four times to go through the same vineyard
just to pick those grapes. And what the noble rot
does for for those I don't know, Basically, the noble
rot dehydrate the grapes, deaderating the grapes. The sugar content
inside the grapes goes up. And at the same time
the change the noble rock changes the chemical the chemistry

(29:35):
inside the grape and develops certain flavors saffron for example.
And in this way, when we pick the grape the
noble rot, we just have basically a grape that is
still on the plant and is has been dedratd, so
sugar content is very very high, and crashing those grapes

(29:56):
we obtain a very very high sugar must and we
like this must ferment and we get the sweet wine.

Speaker 2 (30:05):
It's very labor intensive and it's only done when the
climatic conditions permit. We actually didn't taste one of yours,
but it's fascinating. I think we tasted maybe one the
entire trip. We know two too. We tasted two in Orviedo,
but it was very eye opening that Orviedo is the
only authorized region for this one. It's called Mufa Nobly,

(30:28):
which means noble rock.

Speaker 6 (30:30):
Right.

Speaker 2 (30:30):
Mufa nobly means noble rot.

Speaker 6 (30:32):
Exactly perfectly, perfectly right. Yeah, And as you said, unfortunately,
climate change is affecting us a lot. The last vintage
that I managed to make about this wine was twenty twenty.
And then we're just getting so many dry and hot
ears that we don't have conditions or at least on
my winery and on my veneers, and not as a

(30:52):
condition for noble rods to spread. Because we're having September
and October, which are more similar like to a July
or August e then like in the months with rain
and so on. So just to wag, it is just
way too hot and dry for no the rod to spread.
So I keep my fingers crossed for twenty twenty five.

Speaker 2 (31:15):
Well, speaking of we're talking to you, and it is
the last day of July twenty twenty five, and you
said that due to climatic conditions, you're having to move
up harvest, particularly for your grapes, for your sparkling wines.
So talk to us about that, because everyone we are
talking to is having to move harvest up. But it's

(31:38):
you know it was, I mean July is early, and
you said you were going to have to start in July.
Talk to us about that. How has that been changing
over the years, and what are you doing to address it?

Speaker 6 (31:50):
Yeah, so you're right, as you said, in the last
fifteen to twenty years, we see this trend that we
have to anticipate the harvest more more. I would say
that compare like two thousand and five harvest, we are
in general at least two weeks earlier. We start picking
the grapes two weeks earlier. In my early days, of

(32:13):
the one I remember picking the pinan noir from to
make the sparkling wine. Never before the fifteenth of August,
usually fifteen to August. It's a big feast in Italy
is Ferragosto. And after that the pinan nouir starts. The
harvest of pinuir starts started last year. We had to
start on July twenty eighth, so you see like two

(32:38):
and a half weeks earlier than usual. This year seems
more in a normal year, which is great. We're like
today we only have a thirty degrees celsius, which is
I believe around the eighty five eighty nineties, a far night,
which is which is great. Were having a summer which
is not too hot. Well, we had a heat wave,
a very big heat wave back in July. Back in

(32:59):
June at the end of tune for two three weeks,
extremely high temperature. That affected a bit of the veneers
because with the extended heat wave. But luckily we got
some rain afterwards the trend temperatures dropped and we've got
some rain and so the vines managed to recover. So
busy are twenty twenty five. Apart from that heat wave,

(33:21):
seems to be pretty normally here, which is great.

Speaker 2 (33:24):
We were there during that heatwavem remember, yeah, it was sweltering,
and this is an area that the irrigation is not allowed,
or is.

Speaker 6 (33:31):
It irrigation is allowed in our vietle so we could irrigate.
Some producer do irrigate. I don't irrigate. I don't have
a source of water close by that I can add
access to. But probably in the near future, if the
trend is confirmed, I might have to dig it well
and to get some water.

Speaker 2 (33:53):
Yeah, we saw some man made lakes a few places
where we've traveled, which in a little reservoirs people had
dug and created throughout our travels in Italy. I mean,
this is a global problem that obviously has to create
Solutions have to be created because I don't think it's
going to reverse itself anytimes too. I'm just wondering because

(34:15):
of that and the changes. Have you thought about planning
other kinds of grapes in the future.

Speaker 6 (34:23):
I'm thinking about changing some varietals, working on that. What
I'm doing now is most of the we're choosing. I'm
choosing different type of rootstock that adopts you know, all
the vegnios that we have. We have a vital that
we have a rootstock, American rootstock, and from American rootstock,

(34:44):
there is a number of rootstock that I have certain properties.
And what we're doing now as producers in central Italy
is that we're using more and more rootstock that are resistance,
silent and resistance in case of heat waves or water
and so on. So they still managed to develop a

(35:04):
good root system even with low quantity of water of rain.
So this is a trend that he's already started a
few years ago. And I'm thinking about the varietals. I
haven't done any major choice yet, but I have some
in mind, but I don't want to spoil all experiment.

Speaker 4 (35:23):
Yeah, and you know, Italy has really been at the
forefront of that research as well, because they've they've had
three or four places in Italy through some of the
agricultural schools and programs that they've done that research as
to what rootstock as climate change happens, will be able
to stand the test of time and still produce well.

Speaker 3 (35:42):
And it Italy is at the forefront of that.

Speaker 2 (35:44):
Well, you need to be ahead of the climate curve.
Most people are behind it right now, and it's you know,
changing and you've going to look forward.

Speaker 5 (35:51):
I think Bordoz doing a lot of.

Speaker 2 (35:53):
Work too, and and new approved everywhere you go, new
approved varieties are use in there. Looking there's a whole process,
and yes, it is very far ahead of it, thank goodness,
thank goodness.

Speaker 3 (36:08):
So you know, why.

Speaker 4 (36:10):
Don't we talk a little bit about your hospitality program
you do have. You are open for visitors by appointment,
and you also have a place where people can come
and stay also and rent a villo that you have
on the property.

Speaker 3 (36:22):
Why don't you tell us about those?

Speaker 2 (36:24):
Oh?

Speaker 6 (36:24):
Yeah, we open for wind testing throughout the year. I
think we are closed just for Christmas and just major holidays.
Otherwise we're always open. We're in a remote location, so
you need a car to get here where there's also
taxi service in our Vietle we're just fifteen twenty minutes
drive from the town or Vieto. And when you come in,

(36:46):
we don't have a like walking testing room. But if
you book your appointment advance version, Angelica is she's great.
She'll bring you to see the cellar and the caves
and then the wind tasting will happen with four wines
in our old chapel of Saint Mary of the Cunyana,
which is not a church anymore, but it's our tasting room,

(37:07):
and everybody usually like like like this place and like
tasting wines in an old church and talking about the villa.
We also have this villa that we rent out for
usually like three four, five days, even longer if you want.
And it's a beautiful view surrounded by vineyards. It's a

(37:28):
beautiful and great getaway place for when you're with friends
with families, and we have lots of visitors from the
US and Canada. Actually most of the visitors and people
that are renting the villa are coming from from the US.

Speaker 2 (37:45):
Well, given how many of our friends seem to be
traveling in Italy or France right now or Spain, we
agree it's like everybody's posting their photos right now we're
back home. But it is a beautiful and it's a
wonderful out of way, and the wines really are terrific,
and Dick Yanni to Barbie is one of the few

(38:05):
that really produces amazing sparklings. We had different sparkling wines
a few, but that's a signature of your winery and
I think that's really important to underscore because a lot
of people don't think of metado classical sparkling wines in
Umbria much less Orvieto. And I also think it's important
to underscore that while Orvieto is better known and dominant

(38:29):
as a white wine region, there are some very good reds.
It's interesting, David, and so we were in Montefalco before
we went to Orvioto, and that's what regions that are
known for reds and whites, and they're trying really hard
to bring up the prominence of their white because you know,
they've got to because people a lot of people want

(38:49):
white wines right now, and the Trebiano's bulletinos. So it's
interesting how two regions side by side have you know,
one has got more white identity, in some everyone has
more read it and in some white and they're very different.
And it's funnier. They're both in Umbria, but they're both
very very different from wines from each other and each other.

Speaker 5 (39:09):
It's amazing, and.

Speaker 3 (39:11):
I think it's also important. It's also important to point
out that or Viedo.

Speaker 4 (39:14):
Really is is their signatures signature style for whites.

Speaker 2 (39:19):
Is blend, yes, and very important.

Speaker 4 (39:21):
It's not a varietally focused wine making region. You've created
the doc really to make blended wines, and that's a
very important thing to put out there so that people
understand that, you know, the art of wine making is blending. Yes,
and these are some of the in my opinion, the
top wine white wines.

Speaker 2 (39:42):
I think blends are very interesting. It just creates all
these You know, there are rules to follow, but then
there's opportunities inside to how you handle those rules into blending.
It's so interesting. So, Enzo, let's end this with telling
our viewers and listeners what you consider the ultimate things

(40:02):
to do if you come to Orvieto, since you know
it so well, besides visit the conanity Barbie.

Speaker 6 (40:11):
Okay, well I'll say, and uh well yeah, the answer
is in your background. The duomo, I think the DMan
what is an experience. I think it's one of the
most beautiful churches in Europe. It's I think there are
a lot, just one, just a very few churches with
mosaics on the facade and the woman reveals its beautiful

(40:34):
facade and it changes the color depending on how the
sun lights is hitting the facade. And I think it's great.
I think it's great. So people are coming to a
viator the dwarmens a must to see.

Speaker 3 (40:49):
And just and some of the masterpieces inside are amazing
as well.

Speaker 5 (40:52):
But you know, it's interesting. We had a guide. She
was amazing, and.

Speaker 2 (40:55):
We did go at different times of the day to
see the light change. And it is quite remarkable because.

Speaker 5 (41:01):
Back in the day people were illiterate. They didn't read every.

Speaker 2 (41:07):
Carving and mosaic and carving on the asset tells a story.
So it's the story of the Bible and of creation.
Like one entire side of the DMO is the story
of creation and of heaven and Hell on then other side,
and it's fascinating. You could just sit and stare at
each of those panels forever and read them through the imagery,

(41:31):
which is what people did back then.

Speaker 6 (41:35):
Yeah, yeah, and I believe it took like four hundred
years to Buildeah. We started in the thirteenth century, twelve
sixty four, I believe, and so it took a really
really long time.

Speaker 2 (41:49):
It's a treasure and it's in the beautiful piazza, and
then around that are some wonderful cafes and wine shops
and a lot of ceramics.

Speaker 5 (41:59):
This is an area known.

Speaker 2 (42:00):
For its beautiful ceramics. Of course, the the different products,
notably the honey, the olive oil, the pastas and the
truffles are amazing.

Speaker 4 (42:13):
And then it's just so we're clear, wine has been
made at Decanad Barbie longer than the Orvieto Cathedral has
been in existence.

Speaker 5 (42:22):
That's so true.

Speaker 6 (42:25):
Yeah, that's that's true. That is true.

Speaker 5 (42:28):
It's fascinating.

Speaker 2 (42:31):
It's really been great to talk with you, Enzo Barbie,
dikend Barbie.

Speaker 5 (42:35):
The website is helped me out.

Speaker 4 (42:41):
There is decod Barbie dot com and we'll put that
up on our website too.

Speaker 5 (42:47):
We'll put that up on our website.

Speaker 2 (42:48):
You can actually read more about Dike Nune Barbie and
our expense will be up on the connected table dot
com and of course Instagram at the Connected Table which
we have on our screen.

Speaker 3 (42:57):
So if our American.

Speaker 4 (43:00):
Audience wants to purchase Barbie wine decting onto the Barbie
wines in the US, how can they do that?

Speaker 3 (43:06):
Do you have a do you have a number a
series of importers that you work with in the US.

Speaker 6 (43:10):
Yeah, I'm selling not all of the states, in a
few states. So I always suggest to go to win
searcher dot com and just type your address and see
where my wines are available. I'm selling mostly on the
East Coast and West coast, so less in in in
the Midwest. But please go to wine Searcher and see
what's the closest location. Otherwise you can ship the wines

(43:33):
for me, for me least, if you go on the website,
you can you can purchase the wine, and I believe,
funny days, the wine can be at your door.

Speaker 5 (43:44):
Yeah, it can.

Speaker 2 (43:45):
We sell actually a lot of wine shipping services in
Orvieto and Montefalco, and we were like, wow, you know,
but it's expensive, but it can't be done.

Speaker 3 (43:52):
It can be done.

Speaker 5 (43:54):
Well.

Speaker 2 (43:54):
It's been a pleasure. We hope that the rest of
harvest goes well for you. You can't wait to it again.
We love Orvieto. We think it's terrific. We think Umbria
is a gem inside the heart of Italy, and we
encourage everybody to go. Wasn't as tristi as some of
the other places we went to during this time. We

(44:14):
were at Rome and Lawrence and they were very busy
and we love both of cities. But if you want
a place it may be less intensely crowded. These are
great places to visit, even in high season. So thank
you again, good Etsie.

Speaker 6 (44:30):
Thank you so much for having me, great talk talking
to you.

Speaker 2 (44:35):
You've been listening to The Connected Table Live with Melanie
Young and David Ransom. Follow us at the Connected Table
on Instagram. Check out what we do at the Connected
Table dot com. You can find all our shows on
the Connected Table TV and on your preferred podcast. We're
on over sixty five leading podcast channels. You can even
listen to us in your car and always stay insatiably curious.

(45:01):
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