July 30, 2025 • 48 mins
Kenneth Dunn transitioned from working on food insecurity issues with the United Nations to creating premium food experiences for culinary curious travelers through Eating Europe, the company he founded in 2011. What started as a single experience in Rome quickly expanded to Florence and beyond. Eating Europe now offers food tours in 20 cities and has welcomed over 450,000 guests and earned more than 10,000 five-star reviews. www.eatingeurope.com
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The Connected Table is broadcast live Wednesdays at 2PM ET and Music on W4CY Radio (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com).
The Connected Table Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-connected-table-live--1277037/support.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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(00:21):
W FOURCY Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Hello and welcome to the Connected Table Live. We're your hosts,
Melanie Young and David Ransom. You're insatiably curious culinary couple.
We enjoy traveling the world to bring you the amazing
people we meet when we eat, drink, explore, and find inspiration,
and we hope you do too when you watch the
show and listen to all our podcasts. But you can
(01:03):
be heard on sixty five podcast channels around the world.
And we're in our thirteenth year. Twelfth year I lost track.
We started in twenty fourteen, so we have an amazing
library of interviews. So as you follow us, you know
we're in Europe. A lot, and we're lucky because we
get a lot of insider knowledge on where to go
(01:25):
and what to eat and of course what to drink.
But don't you want to do that as well when
you travel on your own? Don't you want to experience
where the locals die? Now? Find out those little hidden
farmers' markets and places to pick up that special sandwich
or those cheeses with someone who's really in the know. Well,
we all do, because that's really what it's about, really
(01:47):
meeting people and getting to know the intersection of what
we call culture and culinary. It's absolutely perfect and we
had the opportunity to do that when we had a
few rare free days in Rome. That's why we had
this great backdrop behind us. We took a trustavvery twilight
(02:07):
tour with a company called Eating Europe. It does premium
culinary tours in twenty cities in Europe and it was
actually started by an American. It started as a c
single tour in Rome and it was started by Kenneth Dunn,
who is an American living in Italy. Gee fabulous, and
(02:31):
he joins us today to share his own journey how
he went from Pennsylvania where he grew up to Rome
and how he started eating Europe and has grown it
into really one of the top rated culinary tour companies
in Europe and on all your favorite sites like travel,
(02:54):
trip Advisor, vietor So Kenneth Dunn, welcome to the Connected Table.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Thank you so much. I'm very very happy to be
here with you guys.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Well, you know, we love our trip. We've written about
it and talked about it, and trust Avery is such
an interesting neighborhood. But you grew up in Pennsylvania where
we've actually spent a lot of time driving back and
forth because we lived on the road for a year.
What was it like for you back then? What was
your family like were you were you food people or
not food people?
Speaker 3 (03:26):
I would say sort of food people. I mean, you know,
so I grew up outside Philadelphia about a hat about
a half hour outside the city, and you know, living
in kind of the suburbs, you know, you're you're you're
kind of limited to your options. Tons of Italian places,
(03:47):
And what I find most fascinating is all the places
that were there when I was a kid are still there.
All the Italian places, other kind of restaurants have come
and go but all those kind of local, family Italian
restaurants and pizza shops are still all there, and so
that was really kind of our thing. You know. We
(04:08):
had like three different pizzerias within maybe two miles, and
everyone in my family had a different one that was
their favorite, and we'd kind of fight over where we'd
order from or go out to. And then going into
the city was more of like, even though it was
only a half hour away, that was kind of more
of a special event, and we had a handful of
(04:30):
kind of our favorite spots in the city, many of
which were in South Philadelphia in the Italian neighborhood. So
kind of beyond that, I don't think that's why I
wouldn't say we're a huge foodies growing up. I mean
that kind of came later for me personally as I
traveled the world and experienced different cuisines, but certainly kind
(04:54):
of Italian cuisine and Philadelphia style Italian food was, you know,
a big part of growing up around Philadelphia. Did I
lose you first?
Speaker 2 (05:06):
You called heat wave? Okay, so just to our listeners,
we are experiencing in New Orleans and uncommon heat wave.
You may be experiencing it. Ken in Rome, but that
sometimes makes things a little unstable.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
We got it, thank you.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Mom Nature. But anyway, you were talking, Sorry listeners, Sorry Ken,
you were talking about growing up in pizza seemed to
be a big thing in your life. I just I
just have to ask you Philadelphia cheese steak. Do you
like it? And where do you get it? Since you're Philadelphia?
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Absolutely like it? Yeah, my favorite place is one of
I mean, there's that's another huge debate I was saying
in my family, I don't know when I lost you
for us, we had like three or four local pizzerias,
and everyone in the family had a different kind of
favorite one within Philadelphia. You know, what's the best cheese
(06:03):
steak is probably the biggest, most hotly debated topic for
me personally. I've always gone with gyms which is on
South Street. It's definitely one of the institutions a couple.
You know, there's a place called Angelo's, which seems to
be like kind of the hottest spot over the last
(06:25):
five or six years. But Gym's has been there for
probably forty years, and that is whenever I'm back, I
need to go there and pop in for a cheese steak.
So that's my spot.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Well, we think Philadelphia is awesome, so we like going
there whenever we can. Now, you traveled a lot when
you were younger. Was that before or after you were
working in marketing in New York?
Speaker 3 (06:50):
So that was actually afterwards. So I was looking and
working in work for about four or five years. I
had my own event marketing come company with the couple partners,
and then I just got the itch to I wanted to.
I'd lived in the States pretty much my whole life
except for one semester in Spain during college, and just
(07:13):
felt like there's so much more to see, to do
the experience. So I sold my kind of my shares
or my percentage of the business to my partners and
put on a backpack and traveled for what was supposed
to be one year and ended up being several. And
that was really where I kind of cultivated my love
(07:37):
for you know, experiencing local cuisines while while traveling, going
to markets, doing all the kind of things which kind
of touched on in the introduction. Just getting immersed into
a local food scene, a local cuisine. That was where
that seed was really first kind of planted.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
So what got you to Rome? We know, but tell
our listeners.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
So I came to Rome back in two thousand and nine.
My wife at the time, we were both studying in Washington,
d C. So that was kind of the second part
of my career. I went back to school to grad
school for international development. I'd been living abroad and working
(08:26):
on projects in urban agriculture in Colombia and Asia and
decided to kind of study that. Met my ex wife.
She got a job here in Rome for the Food
and Agriculture Organization, which is a UN agency, and we
thought we'd move here for I think eleven months was
(08:47):
that first contract, and now I've been here for fifteen years,
so it was that wasn't the original plan, but so
I came with her, followed her over, said well this
will be great. You know, who can complain about moving
to Italy to Rome specifically, And then all these other
(09:09):
things happened kind of along the way.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
Well, you can't help but get yourself immersed in food
when you're in Italy and especially in Rome, because there's
so many famous dishes that come from there. What was
it that inspired you to create eating Europe? Along the way, so.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
I also was working at the UN for a year
and then when that contract ended, I you know, I
decided that wasn't kind of the best place for me.
But then the big question was, so then what what
do I do? I mentioned before, I've been an entrepreneur.
(09:48):
I had a marketing company. So the idea of kind
of putting my entrepreneurial hat back on, you know, wasn't
such a foreign one, and I started to think, well,
here I am in Rome, what could I do? And
like you said, food, tourism, I mean, those are kind
of two of the biggest industries, let's say, certainly tourism
(10:09):
as a sector, and what I had been doing in
those first couple of years while living in Rome. You
get so many visitors, especially in the beginning when you
move abroad, and especially to a place like Rome. So
I got tired of taking everyone to the coliseum and
the Vatican and the Forum and doing I mean, you
can only do those things so many times, as incredible
(10:31):
as all those sites are, so instead I was like, look,
you guys, probably by like the nineteenth visitor. I was like,
you guys, do the coliseum tomorrow. I'm going to take
you around my neighborhood. At the time, I wasn't living
in Trastevide, which is where you guys did your tour.
I was living in a neighborhood called Tustachio. Tistatcho is
(10:53):
a real locals neighborhood. It's a little bit off the
beaten path. And I would take all my friends. We'd
get up in the morning, go across the street to
the local bar and meet Armando, who was the owner
and barista. It was about seventy two at the time,
and you know, we'd order our cappuccino. Then we'd stroll
just two blocks away to the local food market and
(11:15):
I'd take them around and say, this is Maria. She's
the one I buy all my fruit and vegetables. And
I'd tell her them a little about their story and
the butcher ches day, all these people who I got
to know over the year or so I had been
living in the neighborhood, and my friends would tell me
friends and family who came to visit. Wow, that was
(11:35):
one of the best parts of our visit. I think
we enjoyed that more than the Colosseum, which is high praise.
And so the idea started to percolate, and what if
this were to turn into a business, and I saw
that in New York there were food tours. That was
the only place I knew where they really existed. And
(11:59):
then I kind of, after doing some research, starting to
put together a business plan and talking to enough friends
who kind of gave me the you know, I guess,
the ultimate courage or push to do it, go for it?
Why not? I decided to launch the business, which initially
was just eating Italy food tours, and then over this
(12:21):
fifteen year journey, it grew into eating Europe and expanded
beyond Rome and Italy. But that was kind of the
original inspiration was really just kind of doing it organically
with my friends and seeing kind of how much they
enjoyed it and how much I enjoyed showing the neighborhood,
(12:41):
the food, the people behind the et cetera.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
You know, people do food tours a lot. I mean,
we have friends who are chefts and authors and whatnot
who do food to everybody's an expert these days and
food tours, and we live in New Orleans, so we
totally identify with you. People come here and they want
to go to the French Quarter, YadA YadA. Yeah, We're like,
go to the French Quarter. We'll tank you to all
our favorite book We'll take you all our favorite food
(13:07):
spots and our neighborhoods, but don't take us there. You know,
it's the same thing. So we totally get it because
New Orleans is like that.
Speaker 4 (13:14):
And you know, in New Orleans especially, they always want
to come to the real famous places and and do
the and do the icon restaurants, et cetera, or the
new hot chef. And you know what was interesting about
Eating Europe and the Trustavarea tour. You were taking us
to little mom and pop place as your tour was,
and little places that have been around forever. And we
kind of feel that way here in New Orleans. We
like taking people to the little mom and pop places
(13:36):
in New Orleans when they come and saying, you're not
going to see this unless we take it to.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
You exactly, And which leads me to this question. So
you started the company, and it's not easy to run
a tour company. There's a lot of logistics involved. How
did you do your market research to differentiate Eating Europe,
particularly as it grew and scaled, because it's known I
think twenty cities by the summer. To differentiate yourself from
(14:03):
everyone else who's a food tour specialist in Europe or elsewhere,
because it seems like people I know, I won't say,
who have no experience what said, the suddenly wake up
when they go I'm going to do wine tours in
Tuscany and they're not even wine people. And I'm like, really, so,
how did you differentiate because you have to have that
unique selling point.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
Yeah, no, it's a great question, and you're right, there
is a low kind of low barrier to entry, you know,
to start offering food tours or wine tours, as you said.
And so the original kind of the original idea or
vision that I had was to not just kind of
(14:46):
give people some of the iconic dishes in Rome where
I started. That would be like, you know, Jewish style
art of chokes and soup leaf fried rosoto balls and carbonata.
But for me, the important thing was to give people
kind of insight and a way of not just tasting
(15:07):
the food, but meeting the people behind the food, hearing
their stories, hearing kind of the story of that dish
or of that yeah, of that dish or whatever the
item might be might be, as well as to kind
of give people a sense of the neighborhood, the food culture.
(15:27):
So from the very beginning, the idea was, this is
more than just a food tour. You know, this is
more than just the six or seven things we're going
to eat and how they're prepared, what's in them, et cetera.
Like I wanted to take people really kind of on
a journey through the neighborhood, as I had been doing
informally for my friends, and that's kind of really persisted
(15:50):
as we've expanded from city to city and neighborhood to
neighborhood within each city, to really make sure that when
people come on one of our tours are coming away
and saying, wow, we tried all these great foods, but
we also learned about what it's like to live in Rome,
what it's like to eat in Rome, what is the
food culture. We met, like, you guys, did Piero, who
(16:12):
we call the King of Porketa the roasted pork, famous
street food in Rome, and heard a little about him.
You met, you know, Francesco and Roberto, the two brothers
who run Dienzo, which is a famous tratria that we
go to, and you know, and learned about, you know,
when and how people drink sprits and why that became
(16:35):
such an iconic cocktail, not just in Rome but all
over the world, and so to really give more of
a comprehensive experience. So the way we do that is
we put so much time and energy into curating each
and every tour and so you know, choosing the right vendors,
(16:56):
how to mix them, you know, making sure that some
of them were kind of sit down stops where you're
in a restaurant and experiencing that kind of you know,
that kind of dining, and then you know, two stops later,
you're at kind of a hole in the wall where
there's a ton of locals and you're getting that, and
then you're in a deli and where people are coming
(17:19):
in and out and buying, maybe shopping for their home,
so also giving a real kind of complete experience, so
you come away with a real taste of the city.
So I think that's been kind of that was the
first Colonel that like, of the very first tour in Tistacio,
(17:40):
and that is still one of our unique you know,
value propositions or selling points all these year fourteen years later.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Of course, I think you started in Rome and then
you moved to Florence, and then you kind of took off.
You also did something very smart. You've got really great
marketing partners to help you promote. I mean that's really
what it's about. Where do you get most of your business?
Because I think that's critical. I mean we got we've
got it from you know, a PR person, but where
do you normally get Where do your customers come from?
(18:14):
And how do they find you? Because that's really what
matters in getting those great reviews.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
Yeah, yeah, I mean if they don't find you, it's
like the field of dreams. You can be you know,
just because you build it doesn't mean they'll come. So
you can have the best to wherever. But if you're
not getting you know, customers, clients, and unfortunately it's not
going to matter and you're not going to get those reviews.
(18:39):
So I mean these days, I mean, in the very
early days, I relied so much on strip Advisor. You know,
we slowly grew up the rankings and I was telling
someone recently, in those early days, if you could make
it on the first page of trip Advisor, and it
was just one set is one thing called things to do?
(19:01):
There weren't you know, food and why you didn't have
all this segmentation as you do now. So if you
can make it on that first page, which were twenty
listings and we did in the second year, that was
kind of that was all you needed. Nowadays, I mean,
you need to be doing so many different things, so
there's not kind of one simple answer. I mean, we
(19:22):
spend a ton of energy and time and money and
investment and creativity on social media, you know, making videos,
creating content, working with you said partners, influencers like Casey Rose,
who's one of our ambassadors. She's an incredible influencer on
(19:43):
TikTok and and Instagram and YouTube and just has a
really original voice and she's done probably twelve of our tours.
We work with hundreds of travel agents, most of which
are in the US but not entirely, and have really
spent i'd say kind of thirteen out of the fourteen
(20:05):
years developing and cultivating those relationships. Then of course, you know,
we do work with all the major OTAs like Via Tour,
which I think you mentioned, and get your Guide and
you know, all those companies, and we also work with
a lot of the large tour operators like TUC and
Rick Steves and Globists and Kintiki and you know, and
(20:30):
so we're doing all these different things to try and
bring people to yeah, to our website, to our tours,
and so it's a little bit of a lot of
different things, which is really necessary these days, I would think.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
So, you know, you expanded it. I mean I think
you added from Spain to cities in Spain in this month, right,
so you're in twenty cities.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Correct, Yeah, well we added we're adding two cities this month,
Sevilla and San Sebastian. We recently in twenty twenty five
this year added also Barcelona and Madrid. So really excited
to finally be in Spain, just because I mean, what
an incredible culinary country, what an incredible cuisine that really
(21:22):
ranges and changes over the many different destinations. And that
was also where my first stop in Europe I studied
abroad in Sevilla. So finally being able to offer well
Sevilla cuisine but also these other great destinations was long
in the making and I'm really excited that we can
(21:45):
do that.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
So for our fans and followers. There's obviously several cities
in Italy, France, there's Paris right now, Opportunity UK London
and Edinburgh. Edbar's phenomenal. We were just Sarah a couple
of years ago. Spain, you've added Madrid, Barcelona at San Sebastian,
I think is one of the great food cities. I
actually went to language school here for I did language classes,
(22:07):
but I really ate a lot, and I went to
all the great, all the great Michelin restaurants in Barcelona
and Savilla's. On our return, you've got Lisbon and Porteo, Netherlands, Amsterdam,
great dining city, Greece Athens. A lot of opportunity there,
Czech Republic, Brogue and Germany. Is there in Berlin? Where
(22:28):
do you want to go next?
Speaker 3 (22:32):
I mean there are a few I would love to
open up in Dublin, you know, of course, when you
think about Dublin, you think or Ireland. You know, you
think more I guess about guinness and uh, you know,
maybe the beer. But I'll tell you, I mean, uh,
Ireland has wonderful food and just credible cheeses, local produce,
(22:58):
the seafood it's and just great stories. And there's so
many incredible storytellers in terms of the kind of guides
you can have. So that's high on the list and
we're working on that. I mean, for us, one of
the keys is finding the right person in each city,
someone who kind of shares our values, understands the vision
(23:21):
and can really bring it to life. And so Dublin
is a city where we just haven't found that, you know,
that right match. When we do, then I know that's
going to be an incredible uh tour tours that we're
going to be able to offer. And you know, there's
places like Istanbul, which is a personal favorite of mine,
(23:44):
you know, a little more off the beaten path than
the cities were now and the cities that you just mentioned,
but I mean, what an incredible cuisine and so much history.
I mean there are places you can go there that
have haven't changed much and you know in more than
one hundred years, you know, so just one and the
(24:08):
markets there are incredible. So there's still a handful of cities.
I mean, the fact that we're in twenty now, I
think we're kind of getting to the the kind of
long end of the tail. Also because there's so much
we can also go so much deeper in each of
these cities and start to offer different kind of experiences.
(24:29):
So it's not just kind of expanding horizontally but also vertically,
so just a handful more. I mean Dublin and Istanbul
or two of them that are certainly on our radar.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
You know, I have to applaud what you do in
the fact that you have people that work for you.
We've only taken the one tour and it was with
a great guy in Rome named David Day thank you
my name as well. But he was wonderful and he
gave us a lot of history as well. So it
wasn't just about the food and pouring the wine for us,
because we did sit down and have a couple of
(25:03):
glasses of wine with some pasta and this and that,
but he really kind of gave us a historical perspective
as well that went beyond food and the restaurants that
we were going to.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
And I thought that was really interesting.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
So I can understand why you would really kind of
have to find a match for your tours because they
are very intricate in that way.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
And Damine gives cooking classes. I mean, he's a passion
of cook He also lives in Trastavri, so it was
like a real local and for us it was a
special trip because it was an area that we had
visited on our own, and we had the art of chokes,
and we went to the wrong place. So for anyone
who's watching this, one of the great things is eating
apple help cut the cut to the chase and get
(25:42):
to the trip that you probably screwed up trying to
do yourself. And it was nice that, because we're so
used to going on wine trips to people just take
us around and plan everything for us. So this was
like going on a wine trip, and it was food,
and we got to go to some terrific places and
so blew us away. The barata was so good. The
soup la we learned about, which is like ironcini, but
(26:04):
it's rice and mozzarella and tomatoes, so a bit different
from ironcini, much bigger. And then we went to Innocente
Biscotia Artiginale, these tiny little cookies with this very very
old you never would have we never would have found
this place. Okay, let's just put it this way. We
would never would have found that place. And one of
(26:24):
the interesting places for us being wine people. And I
couldn't help but pipe up when the wine came out
to talk about the wine. I kept saying do you
think it's okay? But there was a place called I've
got my cards here Spirito Divino, which is only someone
who worked on like the Nobel Price team in science, right,
(26:47):
and then bingo, bingo bingo. She's now she is now
researching very old historic Roman recipes, including the oxtail stew,
which is stew of the working class. Because just start
where all the Jews lived, you know, and we were
ghetto eyes there. And there's an amazing cellar downstairs that
(27:07):
hold's about seven thousand bottles, and the entire structure was
formerly a synagogue. And Dovidad told us about the Lasagna
effect of architecture, which I had never heard before. Better
that was just a great analogy of how the stones
are built on top. But there was a replica of
David that used the statue of David that used to
be in this place, and the history was so incredible,
(27:30):
and honestly, we would have just walked past the place
and guns synagogue, what's that? So that was what the
difference was we and and the group was small, so
we weren't walking all over each other unfortunately pleasant and
it took us to places that we probably would walk
just past not knowing that they had this historical and
cultural significance.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Yeah, you hit upon so many things there that are really,
you know, all part of the value of doing the
food tour, you know, David what you said with David Day,
you know, not just and this is what I said
at the top, not just talking about the food, but
also talking about the history of these places like Spirito
Divino of the city. So you do a food tour
(28:17):
and you're getting so much more than just you know,
trying a handful of iconic tissues. And then these places
like Innocenti, which you mentioned, which to me is like
that is the dream spot. It's down a small little
alley you would never you know, even think to turn down.
(28:37):
You walk in, there's I mean there is a sign,
but you know it's not bright or bold or anything.
And then you walk in and there's this oven that
you've never seen before that's as big as like, uh,
maybe a large van you know, I was going to
say a school bus, maybe not that big, built in
the early fifties, and you know the place itself. She's
(28:59):
the third woman. She took over for her mom, We
took over for her mom. So third generation and for
a while, her daughter was working there too, so there
were four. And she makes these incredible cookies. Stefania is
her name. She is the nicest person is there every
day and these cookies are simple but so delicious, and
(29:23):
she's got like forty five different kinds and that. Yeah,
you go there and you're just transported. You get to
hear her story, hear a little about biscoti and it's
not just the one kind of cookie that we all
know in the US, but piscoti means cookies in general,
and so you learn a little bit about, you know,
kind of the language and what are Italian cookies and
(29:46):
how are they eating? And then there's other places like Dianzo,
like you mentioned, which isn't so off the bet. I mean,
it's on a small, little side street, but there's a
line of eighty people there every single night. From like
they open at seven thirty, the line starts around an
hour before. And because of our relationship with them dating,
(30:07):
you know, going back twelve years, we just walk right.
We actually go in there before they open, so as
everyone's queuing up waiting for them to open their doors,
they've already opened for us. And that's just we're so
grateful for having that relationship and having that opportunity. And yeah,
(30:27):
you taste the difference. I mean, to me and to
most people, that's one of the best latrias in Rome,
and you taste it with the barrata, the freshness of
the tomatoes, with their fried artichokes so all, and then
spirits of divino. I mean, that is another place we've
been collaborating with all these years. That wine cellar is
ninety years older than the Colisseum, So to go down
(30:48):
there and to hear about the history and some of
the architectural fines discoveries, and then also to be surrounded
by you know, seven thousand bottles of wine is just
such an incredible experience. It's one of my favorite spots
on any of our tours. So yeah, it's all of
those things you said which makes these experiences so memorable.
(31:13):
So I'm glad to hear it was. It was such
a great part of your trip to run.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Oh, it was well worth it because we would never
have found the places and we were at that point
we literally and also we only had two days in Rome.
It was like boiling hot. We couldn't have done it
on our own. And I think what's important is if
you want that extra insight, basically, if you want an
insider look, if you love good food and want to
(31:40):
learn food culture, and you want to learn about a neighborhood,
which we really did. I mean we had a couple
of options. We chose, you know, the Twilight Tour Trustowvery
was perfect. It's a great way to just focus and
not you know, have to spend your entire time with
your GPS out trying to figure out where were going
and what's next. And we're a little spoiled now because
that's kind of how we're been traveling in Italy and
(32:00):
elsewhere because we go on wine trips. So it's really handy,
and you know, we look forward to trying some other ones.
It's you know, are you going to ever expand outside
of Europe? Are you.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Possibly? It is something we've looked at and we continue
to no definitive plans at the moment, but yeah, that's
definitely a possibility for sure. I mean, we are eating Europe,
but I think we can solve the limitations of the name,
and we would bring the same approach, you know, whether
(32:34):
we were doing it in the States or in Latin America.
Or somewhere. I mean trying to, yeah, weave together all
these different elements, really try and bring the people behind
the food front and center. And and I mean what
I say, what's in what I've learned about doing this
in so many different cities in Europe and so many
(32:57):
different countries, is you know, you don't don't have to
be in Paris or Rome or Florence or Lisbon. I mean,
you know, our food tours in Prague, which doesn't have
you know, the same kind of fame in terms of
its cuisine, doesn't have the same iconic dishes in some
(33:17):
ways can be even more fascinating and more rewarding because
you're discovering so many things for the first time, because
you go in with you know, generally speaking, less knowledge
than you would in considering you know, Italian food, which
is so much more prominent in the US and around
the world. So I feel like you can create an
(33:39):
incredible food tour in just about any city. It's just
about really kind of finding those places and doing the
work to really pull everything together and create that kind
of experience.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Well, doing the work's the hard part, because you've got
to get the logistics, and that is a lot of
work because we thought about doing it with the connected
table because we you know, people always ask us about,
you know, wine trips, because god knows, we know everybody.
But I get there. You know, I don't want to
be a tour operator. I want I like to I'm
the big picture person. I would want to work with
people on the ground to do the running around, not
(34:16):
me running around leading the tour because I like to
run things. You know. It's all about creating partnerships. I mean,
you know, this would do really well in New Orleans.
I mean, we had some Italians over here from Montefalco
Producers and we took them to compare Lapon and just
explaining them to them what a hush puppy was, and
(34:39):
barbecue and chicken, every dish we had to carefully explain
because it's so different over in Italy.
Speaker 4 (34:47):
And said they were fascinated by all of them.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
And then they were going on a road trip to
Memphis and Nashville and Savannah.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
Wow for them.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Saying, Okay, this is the city, this is the same
your dish, this is where you need to eat it,
and this is the restaurant we would do when you're
ready for something A little better, and they were sending
us pictures wherever they were going because they were trying everything,
and I was so happy because otherwise they would have
missed all of it, right, and you don't want people
to miss things. You want people to have like the
best experience possible.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
Yeah, and you know, in all of our cities, you
know our guides, I mean we tell them this, and
I know they really kind of feel this way on
their own. They're really the ambassadors for the city, not
just for the local cuisine, but really you know, people
are visiting all these cities on the holiday, on vacation,
and you know, so it's their job to really kind
(35:42):
of bring it all to life, you know, let people
discover things as we've been talking about that they probably
went in on their own, just following their GPS, on
their on their Google maps, and really bring that to life.
And then see the reactions when you do. These friends
of your like the people from Monte Falco did, I'm
(36:04):
sure when you were taking them around New Orleans and
then watching them taste their first hush puppy or jerk
chicken and all the other incredible dishes and foods that
you have in New Orleans which is such an amazing
food city for sure.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
I remember we used to work with the Consortio Brinillo
to Montlchitto when I had my marketing company in New
York and every year all the producers were coming and
we had to find a meal. And I'll never forget
we took them to Blue Smoke because we wanted to
have barbecue. And explaining macaroni and cheese to them to
a to a tuscan was just incredible. Remember we went
(36:40):
to Mom and Nympha in Nimphus in Texas.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
Which is.
Speaker 4 (36:46):
The old historic text Mes restaurant of Houston, and they
were fascinated by it.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
They never had it before.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
But do you want to do that because otherwise they'll
just go to like you know, what we found is
like their importers. We just take them to yet another steakhouse,
an Italian restaurant, and it's like that'd be like taking
us to a southern restaurant in Italy. You know that
getting inside and you know what can every city, every neighborhood,
every village has that local insider place. You just have
(37:14):
to know the people who know the people.
Speaker 3 (37:17):
And sometimes it's interesting that you mentioned you know, following
your GPS on Google, because I do that a lot,
you know, we all do these days. I mean you
can use Google Maps and find the reviews there. I
mean trip Advisor too, but maybe that's not as well
used as it used to be. And so many times
I find that, like a place could have four point
(37:39):
nine start, you know, four point nine rating, and it
just you know, falls short of what I'm expecting. And
because the reviews, you know, don't always match up, you know,
with with the actual experience. And oftentimes it is a
local that you know, could take you some where that
(38:00):
maybe only has a four point four or whatever it is,
but there's something about that place that you know, the
travelers that are giving these reviews might be missing. So unfortunately,
even though we have all this information now and it's
so easy to find restaurants just in one second on
your phone, it's not the same as having a local
(38:22):
take you there, give you the story, tell you what
you should be ordering, tell you about how you should
be eating that. Like if you took your friends to
have crawfish, I mean, you know, you need a bit
of a crash course and how to eat these tiny
little tails. And so that's all part of the experience,
and you're going to come away with such a richer
one than if you just kind of look on Google
(38:45):
Maps and say, oh, this place is at A four
point seven and it sounds good and it's two blocks away.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Yeah, we don't necessarily follow reviews, even though that it's
my background. Don't follow the reviews and the ratings anymore.
I look for that local I asked local people. Well,
I always I'm a member of a Yeah, I'm a
member of le Don Dyscofia International, So I always just
look up members in the different cities and ask. And
that's how we actually ended up discovering an amazing Asian
(39:13):
restaurant in Florence that I never would have gone to,
but a spectacular y Jing and a c Miria, and
I've sent a lot of people there now, Yeah, just incredible.
Is there somewhere you haven't been that you'd like to
go to experience your own culinary immersion?
Speaker 3 (39:37):
Yeah, I mean there's I have travel a lot. I
there's it's a big world, so there's lots of places
I haven't been. I mean I've never been to China.
I've never been to Hong Kong, for example, as a
city that you know, I've seen so many times in
film and movies and popular culture, and there's something about
(39:59):
that city. At some point I'd love to go and
be taken around, you know, at night, kind of a
late night food tour when everything probably comes to life.
And that's certainly high on my list. Most of Africa
I haven't really been. You know, let's say, let's start
(40:22):
with South Africa, Cape Town, joe Burgh. You know, not
that those cities I think, or that country is so
famous for its cuisine. But like I was saying with Prague,
I'd love to go there with the local and show
me what I don't know, because I know very little
and I'm sure I'll be blown away. So those are
(40:46):
a couple. In Europe, a lot of kind of Scandinavia.
I haven't really discovered Sweden, Stockholm. I have been to Copenhagen.
I think that would be another great city when you
say where could we expand great food there and really cool.
Have you guys been to uh to Denmark to Copenhagen.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
No, it's on our list.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
Ever changing, really stylish and cool and kind of yeah,
a lot of amazing design in the food, but also
in kind of the architecture and everything. So yeah, those
are a few, but I mean we could spend the
whole podcast talking about wish list of places I'd like
(41:29):
to go and eat.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
You know where I have been that is on your list?
I would recommend in Europe would be Budapest.
Speaker 3 (41:36):
Yeah, so Budapest was another. I was about to.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
Say, very good place with Buddha, and I was lucky
to have gone there under the tutelage and care of
the great late George Lang who overhauled the Gundol and
owned Cafe Days Artist. So I was kind of like
Cinderella in Budapest when I met and I think it's terrific.
I know, I think, David, you know I want to
go to Japan. I don't think I would dare go
(42:01):
to I've been to Japan, but I wouldn't go back
to Japan unless I had someone really set up the
tour because I'd want to learn the sok as well
as the different regional cuisines of Japan. That's a big trip,
you know, Yeah, that's a big one, and you've got
to have someone you know, curate that.
Speaker 3 (42:21):
That's such a hot testin it. I know so many
people have been going to Japan in the last kind
of two years, and I've just been hearing about all
the incredible food they've been eating. And I was there
in ninety nine, so it's long overdue. And you're absolutely right.
I would want to go and be set up with
(42:41):
different locals and all the regions to take me around
and make sure that I am getting the real deal.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
I was there in like nineteen eighty seven, Okay, so
I had a client and you know, it's just mind boggling,
you know, and you know, you just it's mind boggling,
So you really want to do that, and you know,
you know, you know, And and the wine element always
interests us because it's such an integral part of food
(43:08):
and socke and beer and just spirits and spirits. You know,
there's so much. I mean, when you go to Scotland,
you know you're going to Edinburgh. We were in Edinburgh
and we don't have to invern Us in Glasgow. There's
amazing cuisines there, just incredible, and you mentioned Ireland some
of the best salmon, and of course the stew and
(43:29):
the cheeses are great, absolutely, just really fantastic.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
I was lucky enough. I was invited by the Irish
Tourism Board six or seven years ago. They were doing
a conference and the theme was culinary and so they
invited me and some other operators around Europe and they
took us around on like a four day culinary tour
where we visited farms and cheese shops. Was a famous
(43:57):
one called Sheridan's in Dublin and they have their locations.
And I came away from that trip like, Wow, the
food in this country is so good and so fresh,
and the people are so kind of dedicated. Yeah, and
again that was because I had I was set up
as you said, you know, and I was taken to
(44:19):
these places and got to meet the incredible people who
were creating this food. And that's what made that experience
so impactful.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
It really is. You know, I always feel when I
see people looking lost, whether they're looking for wine in
a store, looking they're trying to find the right restaurant.
We saw a lot of tourists of roam trying to
just figure out where to eat because it was confusing
for them. I just wanted to take them all in
my hand and go, let me give you a list.
You know, I think probably like, who are you, but
you know, it is about wanting to help people have
(44:54):
the best experience they can and and and for many
this is their big trip. It could be their honeymoon,
it could be their only vacation, it could be their
one time with a family. We had a wonderful mom
with a daughter on a trip, and we had a
couple and another with a son. There was different people
on the trip and there's like us and I'm seem
(45:15):
to be American too. They were all American. That maybe
because she had an American trip, I don't know, but
they all came and they were doing the Grand Tour.
They were all seemed to be going to Rome, Florence,
and Venice, and you figured they only had this much
time in Rome and this much time, so it was
good that they went on the trip because they had
a good experience.
Speaker 3 (45:36):
Absolutely. Yeah, I mean Italy. I'm always amazed, even though
I've been here for so long, just how many wonderful regions, towns, sites,
I mean, all across the country. And yeah, most people,
especially if it's the first time, they tend to do,
(45:58):
like you said, the Grand Tour rooms and you know,
how can you blame them? All Three of those destinations
are you know, unforgettable and places you can't miss. And
that's why I encourage me. You got to come back
and then do puh yeah, and do Umbria or Beamonte,
(46:20):
and I mean there's so many credible combinations and in
those places, you're not going to be around so many tourists,
so you're more likely to have a different kind of
experience because those regions aren't as well known, especially to
the American traveling.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
We were in Luca and it was notable. That's a
great example. And then we were in Orvieto, another grad
and they all had their own regional cuisines and their
own wines and it was less crowded. Wow. We could
talk forever because this is my favorite topic, eating, drinking,
exploring and inspiring and I just can't wait to get
on a plane again.
Speaker 3 (46:56):
To go somewhere.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
Although we rode trip a lot, so you know, we
we we find amazing places wherever we go because that's
what we do. On the lookout, always on the lookout.
Ken is nice to meet you in person. We have
to like clink glasses again when we are in Rome
and actually meet in person.
Speaker 3 (47:14):
I would love that. Yeah, if you come to New Orleans.
Speaker 2 (47:16):
We'll show you our town.
Speaker 3 (47:20):
I mean, that's one of my favorite food cities in
the US. So, I.
Speaker 2 (47:26):
Mean, we love New York, we love New Orleans.
Speaker 3 (47:30):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
So you've been listening to another delicious edition of The
Connected Table Live with Melanie Young and David Vanson. We
know you have lots of choices. We'd actual to choose us.
When you listen to your podcast, remember that we have
been talking with Ken Dunn. The company is Eating Europe.
You can find all the trips and information at Eating
Europe dot com. You can read our write up about
(47:52):
our experience on the Trustarverry Twilight Tour at the Connected
Table dot com. And always, we want to remind you
that you have choices on how you travel and live.
We want you always choose adventure, explore beyond your comfort
zone and eating and drinking, and always stay insatiably curious.
(48:13):
Thank you,
The topics and opinions expressed in the following show are
solely those of the hosts and their guests, and not
those of W FOURCY Radio. It's employees are affiliates. We
make no recommendations or endorsements for radio show programs, services,
or products mentioned on air or on our web. No liability,
explicit or implied shall be extended to W FOURCY Radio
or it's employees are affiliates. Any questions or comments should
be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for choosing
(00:21):
W FOURCY Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Hello and welcome to the Connected Table Live. We're your hosts,
Melanie Young and David Ransom. You're insatiably curious culinary couple.
We enjoy traveling the world to bring you the amazing
people we meet when we eat, drink, explore, and find inspiration,
and we hope you do too when you watch the
show and listen to all our podcasts. But you can
(01:03):
be heard on sixty five podcast channels around the world.
And we're in our thirteenth year. Twelfth year I lost track.
We started in twenty fourteen, so we have an amazing
library of interviews. So as you follow us, you know
we're in Europe. A lot, and we're lucky because we
get a lot of insider knowledge on where to go
(01:25):
and what to eat and of course what to drink.
But don't you want to do that as well when
you travel on your own? Don't you want to experience
where the locals die? Now? Find out those little hidden
farmers' markets and places to pick up that special sandwich
or those cheeses with someone who's really in the know. Well,
we all do, because that's really what it's about, really
(01:47):
meeting people and getting to know the intersection of what
we call culture and culinary. It's absolutely perfect and we
had the opportunity to do that when we had a
few rare free days in Rome. That's why we had
this great backdrop behind us. We took a trustavvery twilight
(02:07):
tour with a company called Eating Europe. It does premium
culinary tours in twenty cities in Europe and it was
actually started by an American. It started as a c
single tour in Rome and it was started by Kenneth Dunn,
who is an American living in Italy. Gee fabulous, and
(02:31):
he joins us today to share his own journey how
he went from Pennsylvania where he grew up to Rome
and how he started eating Europe and has grown it
into really one of the top rated culinary tour companies
in Europe and on all your favorite sites like travel,
(02:54):
trip Advisor, vietor So Kenneth Dunn, welcome to the Connected Table.
Speaker 3 (02:59):
Thank you so much. I'm very very happy to be
here with you guys.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
Well, you know, we love our trip. We've written about
it and talked about it, and trust Avery is such
an interesting neighborhood. But you grew up in Pennsylvania where
we've actually spent a lot of time driving back and
forth because we lived on the road for a year.
What was it like for you back then? What was
your family like were you were you food people or
not food people?
Speaker 3 (03:26):
I would say sort of food people. I mean, you know,
so I grew up outside Philadelphia about a hat about
a half hour outside the city, and you know, living
in kind of the suburbs, you know, you're you're you're
kind of limited to your options. Tons of Italian places,
(03:47):
And what I find most fascinating is all the places
that were there when I was a kid are still there.
All the Italian places, other kind of restaurants have come
and go but all those kind of local, family Italian
restaurants and pizza shops are still all there, and so
that was really kind of our thing. You know. We
(04:08):
had like three different pizzerias within maybe two miles, and
everyone in my family had a different one that was
their favorite, and we'd kind of fight over where we'd
order from or go out to. And then going into
the city was more of like, even though it was
only a half hour away, that was kind of more
of a special event, and we had a handful of
(04:30):
kind of our favorite spots in the city, many of
which were in South Philadelphia in the Italian neighborhood. So
kind of beyond that, I don't think that's why I
wouldn't say we're a huge foodies growing up. I mean
that kind of came later for me personally as I
traveled the world and experienced different cuisines, but certainly kind
(04:54):
of Italian cuisine and Philadelphia style Italian food was, you know,
a big part of growing up around Philadelphia. Did I
lose you first?
Speaker 2 (05:06):
You called heat wave? Okay, so just to our listeners,
we are experiencing in New Orleans and uncommon heat wave.
You may be experiencing it. Ken in Rome, but that
sometimes makes things a little unstable.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
We got it, thank you.
Speaker 2 (05:24):
Mom Nature. But anyway, you were talking, Sorry listeners, Sorry Ken,
you were talking about growing up in pizza seemed to
be a big thing in your life. I just I
just have to ask you Philadelphia cheese steak. Do you
like it? And where do you get it? Since you're Philadelphia?
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Absolutely like it? Yeah, my favorite place is one of
I mean, there's that's another huge debate I was saying
in my family, I don't know when I lost you
for us, we had like three or four local pizzerias,
and everyone in the family had a different kind of
favorite one within Philadelphia. You know, what's the best cheese
(06:03):
steak is probably the biggest, most hotly debated topic for
me personally. I've always gone with gyms which is on
South Street. It's definitely one of the institutions a couple.
You know, there's a place called Angelo's, which seems to
be like kind of the hottest spot over the last
(06:25):
five or six years. But Gym's has been there for
probably forty years, and that is whenever I'm back, I
need to go there and pop in for a cheese steak.
So that's my spot.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Well, we think Philadelphia is awesome, so we like going
there whenever we can. Now, you traveled a lot when
you were younger. Was that before or after you were
working in marketing in New York?
Speaker 3 (06:50):
So that was actually afterwards. So I was looking and
working in work for about four or five years. I
had my own event marketing come company with the couple partners,
and then I just got the itch to I wanted to.
I'd lived in the States pretty much my whole life
except for one semester in Spain during college, and just
(07:13):
felt like there's so much more to see, to do
the experience. So I sold my kind of my shares
or my percentage of the business to my partners and
put on a backpack and traveled for what was supposed
to be one year and ended up being several. And
that was really where I kind of cultivated my love
(07:37):
for you know, experiencing local cuisines while while traveling, going
to markets, doing all the kind of things which kind
of touched on in the introduction. Just getting immersed into
a local food scene, a local cuisine. That was where
that seed was really first kind of planted.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
So what got you to Rome? We know, but tell
our listeners.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
So I came to Rome back in two thousand and nine.
My wife at the time, we were both studying in Washington,
d C. So that was kind of the second part
of my career. I went back to school to grad
school for international development. I'd been living abroad and working
(08:26):
on projects in urban agriculture in Colombia and Asia and
decided to kind of study that. Met my ex wife.
She got a job here in Rome for the Food
and Agriculture Organization, which is a UN agency, and we
thought we'd move here for I think eleven months was
(08:47):
that first contract, and now I've been here for fifteen years,
so it was that wasn't the original plan, but so
I came with her, followed her over, said well this
will be great. You know, who can complain about moving
to Italy to Rome specifically, And then all these other
(09:09):
things happened kind of along the way.
Speaker 4 (09:14):
Well, you can't help but get yourself immersed in food
when you're in Italy and especially in Rome, because there's
so many famous dishes that come from there. What was
it that inspired you to create eating Europe? Along the way, so.
Speaker 3 (09:27):
I also was working at the UN for a year
and then when that contract ended, I you know, I
decided that wasn't kind of the best place for me.
But then the big question was, so then what what
do I do? I mentioned before, I've been an entrepreneur.
(09:48):
I had a marketing company. So the idea of kind
of putting my entrepreneurial hat back on, you know, wasn't
such a foreign one, and I started to think, well,
here I am in Rome, what could I do? And
like you said, food, tourism, I mean, those are kind
of two of the biggest industries, let's say, certainly tourism
(10:09):
as a sector, and what I had been doing in
those first couple of years while living in Rome. You
get so many visitors, especially in the beginning when you
move abroad, and especially to a place like Rome. So
I got tired of taking everyone to the coliseum and
the Vatican and the Forum and doing I mean, you
can only do those things so many times, as incredible
(10:31):
as all those sites are, so instead I was like, look,
you guys, probably by like the nineteenth visitor. I was like,
you guys, do the coliseum tomorrow. I'm going to take
you around my neighborhood. At the time, I wasn't living
in Trastevide, which is where you guys did your tour.
I was living in a neighborhood called Tustachio. Tistatcho is
(10:53):
a real locals neighborhood. It's a little bit off the
beaten path. And I would take all my friends. We'd
get up in the morning, go across the street to
the local bar and meet Armando, who was the owner
and barista. It was about seventy two at the time,
and you know, we'd order our cappuccino. Then we'd stroll
just two blocks away to the local food market and
(11:15):
I'd take them around and say, this is Maria. She's
the one I buy all my fruit and vegetables. And
I'd tell her them a little about their story and
the butcher ches day, all these people who I got
to know over the year or so I had been
living in the neighborhood, and my friends would tell me
friends and family who came to visit. Wow, that was
(11:35):
one of the best parts of our visit. I think
we enjoyed that more than the Colosseum, which is high praise.
And so the idea started to percolate, and what if
this were to turn into a business, and I saw
that in New York there were food tours. That was
the only place I knew where they really existed. And
(11:59):
then I kind of, after doing some research, starting to
put together a business plan and talking to enough friends
who kind of gave me the you know, I guess,
the ultimate courage or push to do it, go for it?
Why not? I decided to launch the business, which initially
was just eating Italy food tours, and then over this
(12:21):
fifteen year journey, it grew into eating Europe and expanded
beyond Rome and Italy. But that was kind of the
original inspiration was really just kind of doing it organically
with my friends and seeing kind of how much they
enjoyed it and how much I enjoyed showing the neighborhood,
(12:41):
the food, the people behind the et cetera.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
You know, people do food tours a lot. I mean,
we have friends who are chefts and authors and whatnot
who do food to everybody's an expert these days and
food tours, and we live in New Orleans, so we
totally identify with you. People come here and they want
to go to the French Quarter, YadA YadA. Yeah, We're like,
go to the French Quarter. We'll tank you to all
our favorite book We'll take you all our favorite food
(13:07):
spots and our neighborhoods, but don't take us there. You know,
it's the same thing. So we totally get it because
New Orleans is like that.
Speaker 4 (13:14):
And you know, in New Orleans especially, they always want
to come to the real famous places and and do
the and do the icon restaurants, et cetera, or the
new hot chef. And you know what was interesting about
Eating Europe and the Trustavarea tour. You were taking us
to little mom and pop place as your tour was,
and little places that have been around forever. And we
kind of feel that way here in New Orleans. We
like taking people to the little mom and pop places
(13:36):
in New Orleans when they come and saying, you're not
going to see this unless we take it to.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
You exactly, And which leads me to this question. So
you started the company, and it's not easy to run
a tour company. There's a lot of logistics involved. How
did you do your market research to differentiate Eating Europe,
particularly as it grew and scaled, because it's known I
think twenty cities by the summer. To differentiate yourself from
(14:03):
everyone else who's a food tour specialist in Europe or elsewhere,
because it seems like people I know, I won't say,
who have no experience what said, the suddenly wake up
when they go I'm going to do wine tours in
Tuscany and they're not even wine people. And I'm like, really, so,
how did you differentiate because you have to have that
unique selling point.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
Yeah, no, it's a great question, and you're right, there
is a low kind of low barrier to entry, you know,
to start offering food tours or wine tours, as you said.
And so the original kind of the original idea or
vision that I had was to not just kind of
(14:46):
give people some of the iconic dishes in Rome where
I started. That would be like, you know, Jewish style
art of chokes and soup leaf fried rosoto balls and carbonata.
But for me, the important thing was to give people
kind of insight and a way of not just tasting
(15:07):
the food, but meeting the people behind the food, hearing
their stories, hearing kind of the story of that dish
or of that yeah, of that dish or whatever the
item might be might be, as well as to kind
of give people a sense of the neighborhood, the food culture.
(15:27):
So from the very beginning, the idea was, this is
more than just a food tour. You know, this is
more than just the six or seven things we're going
to eat and how they're prepared, what's in them, et cetera.
Like I wanted to take people really kind of on
a journey through the neighborhood, as I had been doing
informally for my friends, and that's kind of really persisted
(15:50):
as we've expanded from city to city and neighborhood to
neighborhood within each city, to really make sure that when
people come on one of our tours are coming away
and saying, wow, we tried all these great foods, but
we also learned about what it's like to live in Rome,
what it's like to eat in Rome, what is the
food culture. We met, like, you guys, did Piero, who
(16:12):
we call the King of Porketa the roasted pork, famous
street food in Rome, and heard a little about him.
You met, you know, Francesco and Roberto, the two brothers
who run Dienzo, which is a famous tratria that we
go to, and you know, and learned about, you know,
when and how people drink sprits and why that became
(16:35):
such an iconic cocktail, not just in Rome but all
over the world, and so to really give more of
a comprehensive experience. So the way we do that is
we put so much time and energy into curating each
and every tour and so you know, choosing the right vendors,
(16:56):
how to mix them, you know, making sure that some
of them were kind of sit down stops where you're
in a restaurant and experiencing that kind of you know,
that kind of dining, and then you know, two stops later,
you're at kind of a hole in the wall where
there's a ton of locals and you're getting that, and
then you're in a deli and where people are coming
(17:19):
in and out and buying, maybe shopping for their home,
so also giving a real kind of complete experience, so
you come away with a real taste of the city.
So I think that's been kind of that was the
first Colonel that like, of the very first tour in Tistacio,
(17:40):
and that is still one of our unique you know,
value propositions or selling points all these year fourteen years later.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Of course, I think you started in Rome and then
you moved to Florence, and then you kind of took off.
You also did something very smart. You've got really great
marketing partners to help you promote. I mean that's really
what it's about. Where do you get most of your business?
Because I think that's critical. I mean we got we've
got it from you know, a PR person, but where
do you normally get Where do your customers come from?
(18:14):
And how do they find you? Because that's really what
matters in getting those great reviews.
Speaker 3 (18:18):
Yeah, yeah, I mean if they don't find you, it's
like the field of dreams. You can be you know,
just because you build it doesn't mean they'll come. So
you can have the best to wherever. But if you're
not getting you know, customers, clients, and unfortunately it's not
going to matter and you're not going to get those reviews.
(18:39):
So I mean these days, I mean, in the very
early days, I relied so much on strip Advisor. You know,
we slowly grew up the rankings and I was telling
someone recently, in those early days, if you could make
it on the first page of trip Advisor, and it
was just one set is one thing called things to do?
(19:01):
There weren't you know, food and why you didn't have
all this segmentation as you do now. So if you
can make it on that first page, which were twenty
listings and we did in the second year, that was
kind of that was all you needed. Nowadays, I mean,
you need to be doing so many different things, so
there's not kind of one simple answer. I mean, we
(19:22):
spend a ton of energy and time and money and
investment and creativity on social media, you know, making videos,
creating content, working with you said partners, influencers like Casey Rose,
who's one of our ambassadors. She's an incredible influencer on
(19:43):
TikTok and and Instagram and YouTube and just has a
really original voice and she's done probably twelve of our tours.
We work with hundreds of travel agents, most of which
are in the US but not entirely, and have really
spent i'd say kind of thirteen out of the fourteen
(20:05):
years developing and cultivating those relationships. Then of course, you know,
we do work with all the major OTAs like Via Tour,
which I think you mentioned, and get your Guide and
you know, all those companies, and we also work with
a lot of the large tour operators like TUC and
Rick Steves and Globists and Kintiki and you know, and
(20:30):
so we're doing all these different things to try and
bring people to yeah, to our website, to our tours,
and so it's a little bit of a lot of
different things, which is really necessary these days, I would think.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
So, you know, you expanded it. I mean I think
you added from Spain to cities in Spain in this month, right,
so you're in twenty cities.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Correct, Yeah, well we added we're adding two cities this month,
Sevilla and San Sebastian. We recently in twenty twenty five
this year added also Barcelona and Madrid. So really excited
to finally be in Spain, just because I mean, what
an incredible culinary country, what an incredible cuisine that really
(21:22):
ranges and changes over the many different destinations. And that
was also where my first stop in Europe I studied
abroad in Sevilla. So finally being able to offer well
Sevilla cuisine but also these other great destinations was long
in the making and I'm really excited that we can
(21:45):
do that.
Speaker 2 (21:46):
So for our fans and followers. There's obviously several cities
in Italy, France, there's Paris right now, Opportunity UK London
and Edinburgh. Edbar's phenomenal. We were just Sarah a couple
of years ago. Spain, you've added Madrid, Barcelona at San Sebastian,
I think is one of the great food cities. I
actually went to language school here for I did language classes,
(22:07):
but I really ate a lot, and I went to
all the great, all the great Michelin restaurants in Barcelona
and Savilla's. On our return, you've got Lisbon and Porteo, Netherlands, Amsterdam,
great dining city, Greece Athens. A lot of opportunity there,
Czech Republic, Brogue and Germany. Is there in Berlin? Where
(22:28):
do you want to go next?
Speaker 3 (22:32):
I mean there are a few I would love to
open up in Dublin, you know, of course, when you
think about Dublin, you think or Ireland. You know, you
think more I guess about guinness and uh, you know,
maybe the beer. But I'll tell you, I mean, uh,
Ireland has wonderful food and just credible cheeses, local produce,
(22:58):
the seafood it's and just great stories. And there's so
many incredible storytellers in terms of the kind of guides
you can have. So that's high on the list and
we're working on that. I mean, for us, one of
the keys is finding the right person in each city,
someone who kind of shares our values, understands the vision
(23:21):
and can really bring it to life. And so Dublin
is a city where we just haven't found that, you know,
that right match. When we do, then I know that's
going to be an incredible uh tour tours that we're
going to be able to offer. And you know, there's
places like Istanbul, which is a personal favorite of mine,
(23:44):
you know, a little more off the beaten path than
the cities were now and the cities that you just mentioned,
but I mean, what an incredible cuisine and so much history.
I mean there are places you can go there that
have haven't changed much and you know in more than
one hundred years, you know, so just one and the
(24:08):
markets there are incredible. So there's still a handful of cities.
I mean, the fact that we're in twenty now, I
think we're kind of getting to the the kind of
long end of the tail. Also because there's so much
we can also go so much deeper in each of
these cities and start to offer different kind of experiences.
(24:29):
So it's not just kind of expanding horizontally but also vertically,
so just a handful more. I mean Dublin and Istanbul
or two of them that are certainly on our radar.
Speaker 4 (24:42):
You know, I have to applaud what you do in
the fact that you have people that work for you.
We've only taken the one tour and it was with
a great guy in Rome named David Day thank you
my name as well. But he was wonderful and he
gave us a lot of history as well. So it
wasn't just about the food and pouring the wine for us,
because we did sit down and have a couple of
(25:03):
glasses of wine with some pasta and this and that,
but he really kind of gave us a historical perspective
as well that went beyond food and the restaurants that
we were going to.
Speaker 3 (25:11):
And I thought that was really interesting.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
So I can understand why you would really kind of
have to find a match for your tours because they
are very intricate in that way.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
And Damine gives cooking classes. I mean, he's a passion
of cook He also lives in Trastavri, so it was
like a real local and for us it was a
special trip because it was an area that we had
visited on our own, and we had the art of chokes,
and we went to the wrong place. So for anyone
who's watching this, one of the great things is eating
apple help cut the cut to the chase and get
(25:42):
to the trip that you probably screwed up trying to
do yourself. And it was nice that, because we're so
used to going on wine trips to people just take
us around and plan everything for us. So this was
like going on a wine trip, and it was food,
and we got to go to some terrific places and
so blew us away. The barata was so good. The
soup la we learned about, which is like ironcini, but
(26:04):
it's rice and mozzarella and tomatoes, so a bit different
from ironcini, much bigger. And then we went to Innocente
Biscotia Artiginale, these tiny little cookies with this very very
old you never would have we never would have found
this place. Okay, let's just put it this way. We
would never would have found that place. And one of
(26:24):
the interesting places for us being wine people. And I
couldn't help but pipe up when the wine came out
to talk about the wine. I kept saying do you
think it's okay? But there was a place called I've
got my cards here Spirito Divino, which is only someone
who worked on like the Nobel Price team in science, right,
(26:47):
and then bingo, bingo bingo. She's now she is now
researching very old historic Roman recipes, including the oxtail stew,
which is stew of the working class. Because just start
where all the Jews lived, you know, and we were
ghetto eyes there. And there's an amazing cellar downstairs that
(27:07):
hold's about seven thousand bottles, and the entire structure was
formerly a synagogue. And Dovidad told us about the Lasagna
effect of architecture, which I had never heard before. Better
that was just a great analogy of how the stones
are built on top. But there was a replica of
David that used the statue of David that used to
be in this place, and the history was so incredible,
(27:30):
and honestly, we would have just walked past the place
and guns synagogue, what's that? So that was what the
difference was we and and the group was small, so
we weren't walking all over each other unfortunately pleasant and
it took us to places that we probably would walk
just past not knowing that they had this historical and
cultural significance.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Yeah, you hit upon so many things there that are really,
you know, all part of the value of doing the
food tour, you know, David what you said with David Day,
you know, not just and this is what I said
at the top, not just talking about the food, but
also talking about the history of these places like Spirito
Divino of the city. So you do a food tour
(28:17):
and you're getting so much more than just you know,
trying a handful of iconic tissues. And then these places
like Innocenti, which you mentioned, which to me is like
that is the dream spot. It's down a small little
alley you would never you know, even think to turn down.
(28:37):
You walk in, there's I mean there is a sign,
but you know it's not bright or bold or anything.
And then you walk in and there's this oven that
you've never seen before that's as big as like, uh,
maybe a large van you know, I was going to
say a school bus, maybe not that big, built in
the early fifties, and you know the place itself. She's
(28:59):
the third woman. She took over for her mom, We
took over for her mom. So third generation and for
a while, her daughter was working there too, so there
were four. And she makes these incredible cookies. Stefania is
her name. She is the nicest person is there every
day and these cookies are simple but so delicious, and
(29:23):
she's got like forty five different kinds and that. Yeah,
you go there and you're just transported. You get to
hear her story, hear a little about biscoti and it's
not just the one kind of cookie that we all
know in the US, but piscoti means cookies in general,
and so you learn a little bit about, you know,
kind of the language and what are Italian cookies and
(29:46):
how are they eating? And then there's other places like Dianzo,
like you mentioned, which isn't so off the bet. I mean,
it's on a small, little side street, but there's a
line of eighty people there every single night. From like
they open at seven thirty, the line starts around an
hour before. And because of our relationship with them dating,
(30:07):
you know, going back twelve years, we just walk right.
We actually go in there before they open, so as
everyone's queuing up waiting for them to open their doors,
they've already opened for us. And that's just we're so
grateful for having that relationship and having that opportunity. And yeah,
(30:27):
you taste the difference. I mean, to me and to
most people, that's one of the best latrias in Rome,
and you taste it with the barrata, the freshness of
the tomatoes, with their fried artichokes so all, and then
spirits of divino. I mean, that is another place we've
been collaborating with all these years. That wine cellar is
ninety years older than the Colisseum, So to go down
(30:48):
there and to hear about the history and some of
the architectural fines discoveries, and then also to be surrounded
by you know, seven thousand bottles of wine is just
such an incredible experience. It's one of my favorite spots
on any of our tours. So yeah, it's all of
those things you said which makes these experiences so memorable.
(31:13):
So I'm glad to hear it was. It was such
a great part of your trip to run.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
Oh, it was well worth it because we would never
have found the places and we were at that point
we literally and also we only had two days in Rome.
It was like boiling hot. We couldn't have done it
on our own. And I think what's important is if
you want that extra insight, basically, if you want an
insider look, if you love good food and want to
(31:40):
learn food culture, and you want to learn about a neighborhood,
which we really did. I mean we had a couple
of options. We chose, you know, the Twilight Tour Trustowvery
was perfect. It's a great way to just focus and
not you know, have to spend your entire time with
your GPS out trying to figure out where were going
and what's next. And we're a little spoiled now because
that's kind of how we're been traveling in Italy and
(32:00):
elsewhere because we go on wine trips. So it's really handy,
and you know, we look forward to trying some other ones.
It's you know, are you going to ever expand outside
of Europe? Are you.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Possibly? It is something we've looked at and we continue
to no definitive plans at the moment, but yeah, that's
definitely a possibility for sure. I mean, we are eating Europe,
but I think we can solve the limitations of the name,
and we would bring the same approach, you know, whether
(32:34):
we were doing it in the States or in Latin America.
Or somewhere. I mean trying to, yeah, weave together all
these different elements, really try and bring the people behind
the food front and center. And and I mean what
I say, what's in what I've learned about doing this
in so many different cities in Europe and so many
(32:57):
different countries, is you know, you don't don't have to
be in Paris or Rome or Florence or Lisbon. I mean,
you know, our food tours in Prague, which doesn't have
you know, the same kind of fame in terms of
its cuisine, doesn't have the same iconic dishes in some
(33:17):
ways can be even more fascinating and more rewarding because
you're discovering so many things for the first time, because
you go in with you know, generally speaking, less knowledge
than you would in considering you know, Italian food, which
is so much more prominent in the US and around
the world. So I feel like you can create an
(33:39):
incredible food tour in just about any city. It's just
about really kind of finding those places and doing the
work to really pull everything together and create that kind
of experience.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Well, doing the work's the hard part, because you've got
to get the logistics, and that is a lot of
work because we thought about doing it with the connected
table because we you know, people always ask us about,
you know, wine trips, because god knows, we know everybody.
But I get there. You know, I don't want to
be a tour operator. I want I like to I'm
the big picture person. I would want to work with
people on the ground to do the running around, not
(34:16):
me running around leading the tour because I like to
run things. You know. It's all about creating partnerships. I mean,
you know, this would do really well in New Orleans.
I mean, we had some Italians over here from Montefalco
Producers and we took them to compare Lapon and just
explaining them to them what a hush puppy was, and
(34:39):
barbecue and chicken, every dish we had to carefully explain
because it's so different over in Italy.
Speaker 4 (34:47):
And said they were fascinated by all of them.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
And then they were going on a road trip to
Memphis and Nashville and Savannah.
Speaker 3 (34:55):
Wow for them.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
Saying, Okay, this is the city, this is the same
your dish, this is where you need to eat it,
and this is the restaurant we would do when you're
ready for something A little better, and they were sending
us pictures wherever they were going because they were trying everything,
and I was so happy because otherwise they would have
missed all of it, right, and you don't want people
to miss things. You want people to have like the
best experience possible.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
Yeah, and you know, in all of our cities, you
know our guides, I mean we tell them this, and
I know they really kind of feel this way on
their own. They're really the ambassadors for the city, not
just for the local cuisine, but really you know, people
are visiting all these cities on the holiday, on vacation,
and you know, so it's their job to really kind
(35:42):
of bring it all to life, you know, let people
discover things as we've been talking about that they probably
went in on their own, just following their GPS, on
their on their Google maps, and really bring that to life.
And then see the reactions when you do. These friends
of your like the people from Monte Falco did, I'm
(36:04):
sure when you were taking them around New Orleans and
then watching them taste their first hush puppy or jerk
chicken and all the other incredible dishes and foods that
you have in New Orleans which is such an amazing
food city for sure.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
I remember we used to work with the Consortio Brinillo
to Montlchitto when I had my marketing company in New
York and every year all the producers were coming and
we had to find a meal. And I'll never forget
we took them to Blue Smoke because we wanted to
have barbecue. And explaining macaroni and cheese to them to
a to a tuscan was just incredible. Remember we went
(36:40):
to Mom and Nympha in Nimphus in Texas.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
Which is.
Speaker 4 (36:46):
The old historic text Mes restaurant of Houston, and they
were fascinated by it.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
They never had it before.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
But do you want to do that because otherwise they'll
just go to like you know, what we found is
like their importers. We just take them to yet another steakhouse,
an Italian restaurant, and it's like that'd be like taking
us to a southern restaurant in Italy. You know that
getting inside and you know what can every city, every neighborhood,
every village has that local insider place. You just have
(37:14):
to know the people who know the people.
Speaker 3 (37:17):
And sometimes it's interesting that you mentioned you know, following
your GPS on Google, because I do that a lot,
you know, we all do these days. I mean you
can use Google Maps and find the reviews there. I
mean trip Advisor too, but maybe that's not as well
used as it used to be. And so many times
I find that, like a place could have four point
(37:39):
nine start, you know, four point nine rating, and it
just you know, falls short of what I'm expecting. And
because the reviews, you know, don't always match up, you know,
with with the actual experience. And oftentimes it is a
local that you know, could take you some where that
(38:00):
maybe only has a four point four or whatever it is,
but there's something about that place that you know, the
travelers that are giving these reviews might be missing. So unfortunately,
even though we have all this information now and it's
so easy to find restaurants just in one second on
your phone, it's not the same as having a local
(38:22):
take you there, give you the story, tell you what
you should be ordering, tell you about how you should
be eating that. Like if you took your friends to
have crawfish, I mean, you know, you need a bit
of a crash course and how to eat these tiny
little tails. And so that's all part of the experience,
and you're going to come away with such a richer
one than if you just kind of look on Google
(38:45):
Maps and say, oh, this place is at A four
point seven and it sounds good and it's two blocks away.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
Yeah, we don't necessarily follow reviews, even though that it's
my background. Don't follow the reviews and the ratings anymore.
I look for that local I asked local people. Well,
I always I'm a member of a Yeah, I'm a
member of le Don Dyscofia International, So I always just
look up members in the different cities and ask. And
that's how we actually ended up discovering an amazing Asian
(39:13):
restaurant in Florence that I never would have gone to,
but a spectacular y Jing and a c Miria, and
I've sent a lot of people there now, Yeah, just incredible.
Is there somewhere you haven't been that you'd like to
go to experience your own culinary immersion?
Speaker 3 (39:37):
Yeah, I mean there's I have travel a lot. I
there's it's a big world, so there's lots of places
I haven't been. I mean I've never been to China.
I've never been to Hong Kong, for example, as a
city that you know, I've seen so many times in
film and movies and popular culture, and there's something about
(39:59):
that city. At some point I'd love to go and
be taken around, you know, at night, kind of a
late night food tour when everything probably comes to life.
And that's certainly high on my list. Most of Africa
I haven't really been. You know, let's say, let's start
(40:22):
with South Africa, Cape Town, joe Burgh. You know, not
that those cities I think, or that country is so
famous for its cuisine. But like I was saying with Prague,
I'd love to go there with the local and show
me what I don't know, because I know very little
and I'm sure I'll be blown away. So those are
(40:46):
a couple. In Europe, a lot of kind of Scandinavia.
I haven't really discovered Sweden, Stockholm. I have been to Copenhagen.
I think that would be another great city when you
say where could we expand great food there and really cool.
Have you guys been to uh to Denmark to Copenhagen.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
No, it's on our list.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
Ever changing, really stylish and cool and kind of yeah,
a lot of amazing design in the food, but also
in kind of the architecture and everything. So yeah, those
are a few, but I mean we could spend the
whole podcast talking about wish list of places I'd like
(41:29):
to go and eat.
Speaker 2 (41:31):
You know where I have been that is on your list?
I would recommend in Europe would be Budapest.
Speaker 3 (41:36):
Yeah, so Budapest was another. I was about to.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
Say, very good place with Buddha, and I was lucky
to have gone there under the tutelage and care of
the great late George Lang who overhauled the Gundol and
owned Cafe Days Artist. So I was kind of like
Cinderella in Budapest when I met and I think it's terrific.
I know, I think, David, you know I want to
go to Japan. I don't think I would dare go
(42:01):
to I've been to Japan, but I wouldn't go back
to Japan unless I had someone really set up the
tour because I'd want to learn the sok as well
as the different regional cuisines of Japan. That's a big trip,
you know, Yeah, that's a big one, and you've got
to have someone you know, curate that.
Speaker 3 (42:21):
That's such a hot testin it. I know so many
people have been going to Japan in the last kind
of two years, and I've just been hearing about all
the incredible food they've been eating. And I was there
in ninety nine, so it's long overdue. And you're absolutely right.
I would want to go and be set up with
(42:41):
different locals and all the regions to take me around
and make sure that I am getting the real deal.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
I was there in like nineteen eighty seven, Okay, so
I had a client and you know, it's just mind boggling,
you know, and you know, you just it's mind boggling,
So you really want to do that, and you know,
you know, you know, And and the wine element always
interests us because it's such an integral part of food
(43:08):
and socke and beer and just spirits and spirits. You know,
there's so much. I mean, when you go to Scotland,
you know you're going to Edinburgh. We were in Edinburgh
and we don't have to invern Us in Glasgow. There's
amazing cuisines there, just incredible, and you mentioned Ireland some
of the best salmon, and of course the stew and
(43:29):
the cheeses are great, absolutely, just really fantastic.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
I was lucky enough. I was invited by the Irish
Tourism Board six or seven years ago. They were doing
a conference and the theme was culinary and so they
invited me and some other operators around Europe and they
took us around on like a four day culinary tour
where we visited farms and cheese shops. Was a famous
(43:57):
one called Sheridan's in Dublin and they have their locations.
And I came away from that trip like, Wow, the
food in this country is so good and so fresh,
and the people are so kind of dedicated. Yeah, and
again that was because I had I was set up
as you said, you know, and I was taken to
(44:19):
these places and got to meet the incredible people who
were creating this food. And that's what made that experience
so impactful.
Speaker 2 (44:30):
It really is. You know, I always feel when I
see people looking lost, whether they're looking for wine in
a store, looking they're trying to find the right restaurant.
We saw a lot of tourists of roam trying to
just figure out where to eat because it was confusing
for them. I just wanted to take them all in
my hand and go, let me give you a list.
You know, I think probably like, who are you, but
you know, it is about wanting to help people have
(44:54):
the best experience they can and and and for many
this is their big trip. It could be their honeymoon,
it could be their only vacation, it could be their
one time with a family. We had a wonderful mom
with a daughter on a trip, and we had a
couple and another with a son. There was different people
on the trip and there's like us and I'm seem
(45:15):
to be American too. They were all American. That maybe
because she had an American trip, I don't know, but
they all came and they were doing the Grand Tour.
They were all seemed to be going to Rome, Florence,
and Venice, and you figured they only had this much
time in Rome and this much time, so it was
good that they went on the trip because they had
a good experience.
Speaker 3 (45:36):
Absolutely. Yeah, I mean Italy. I'm always amazed, even though
I've been here for so long, just how many wonderful regions, towns, sites,
I mean, all across the country. And yeah, most people,
especially if it's the first time, they tend to do,
(45:58):
like you said, the Grand Tour rooms and you know,
how can you blame them? All Three of those destinations
are you know, unforgettable and places you can't miss. And
that's why I encourage me. You got to come back
and then do puh yeah, and do Umbria or Beamonte,
(46:20):
and I mean there's so many credible combinations and in
those places, you're not going to be around so many tourists,
so you're more likely to have a different kind of
experience because those regions aren't as well known, especially to
the American traveling.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
We were in Luca and it was notable. That's a
great example. And then we were in Orvieto, another grad
and they all had their own regional cuisines and their
own wines and it was less crowded. Wow. We could
talk forever because this is my favorite topic, eating, drinking,
exploring and inspiring and I just can't wait to get
on a plane again.
Speaker 3 (46:56):
To go somewhere.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
Although we rode trip a lot, so you know, we
we we find amazing places wherever we go because that's
what we do. On the lookout, always on the lookout.
Ken is nice to meet you in person. We have
to like clink glasses again when we are in Rome
and actually meet in person.
Speaker 3 (47:14):
I would love that. Yeah, if you come to New Orleans.
Speaker 2 (47:16):
We'll show you our town.
Speaker 3 (47:20):
I mean, that's one of my favorite food cities in
the US. So, I.
Speaker 2 (47:26):
Mean, we love New York, we love New Orleans.
Speaker 3 (47:30):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (47:30):
So you've been listening to another delicious edition of The
Connected Table Live with Melanie Young and David Vanson. We
know you have lots of choices. We'd actual to choose us.
When you listen to your podcast, remember that we have
been talking with Ken Dunn. The company is Eating Europe.
You can find all the trips and information at Eating
Europe dot com. You can read our write up about
(47:52):
our experience on the Trustarverry Twilight Tour at the Connected
Table dot com. And always, we want to remind you
that you have choices on how you travel and live.
We want you always choose adventure, explore beyond your comfort
zone and eating and drinking, and always stay insatiably curious.
(48:13):
Thank you,
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