July 20, 2023 • 49 mins
Part of a new generation of young wine producers in Abruzzo, Francesco Cirelli purchased his first parcel of land in 2003 to start Azienda Agricola Cirelli, now 23 hectares, all organically farmed. He began as a winemaker "garagiste" with the goal of making amphora-fermented wines with minimal intervention. Agricola Cirelli is located near the Gran Sasso National Park, home to one of the highest peaks in Italy's Apennine Mountains and offers two "glamping" cabins for overnight visits.
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The Connected Table is broadcast live Wednesdays at 2PM ET.
The Connected Table Radio Show is broadcast on W4CY Radio (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com).
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Radio. Welcome to the Connected TableLive where your hosts Melana Young and David
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Ransom. You're insatiably curious culinary couple. We bring you the dynamic people who
work front and center and behind thescenes in wine, food, spirits and
hospitality around the world. We enjoytraveling, we enjoy bringing their stories to
you or listeners, and we hopeyou'll take our suggestions and theirs as well,
and go out and try their wines, visit their restaurants, visit their
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wineries, and be adventurous because wealways believe life is about eating, drinking,
exploring, and inspiring. And speakingof inspiring, we have a guest
joining us from a region. Werecently visited a Brutso, right, David,
absolutely Melanie, a place that wehad not been to before, so
it was an eye opener for usin a lot of ways. And lovely
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wines, wonderful people and of coursea great coastline. So just a little
visualization about where is a Brutso.It is on the Adriatic side of Italy.
And what's neat about Abrutso is onone side is bordered by the appanan
Mountains, which are really like thespine of Italy. They travel down the
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center and they're very steep and it'sa very dramatic drive actually, which we
did from the coast of Abruzzo toRome through the Appennini's and then on the
seaside it's Adriatic, which has verycalm waves. It's very placid there.
It's a popular vacation spot, verylow key. We stayed at a lovely
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you know, tourist hotel, lotsof fun restaurants, obviously seafood, but
also this area is known for itsmeat dishes as well as seafood. Because
you've got the mountains and you've gotthe sea. So our trip was to
learn about the wines, of aBruzzo and we had an incredible experience,
and so our guest today is oneof the wineries we visited, and this
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is a i think a young producerdoing a lot of things that we're seeing
happening or starting to happen around Italy. He works with Amphora. His name
is Francesco Chiarelli and he and hiswife Mikola owned an organic farm surrounded about
twenty three hectars more inland near theGrandsas National Park, which we'll talk about.
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As we said, he works inAmphora, which is his thought process.
He is Demeter certified and fairly ayoung producer, and we're really excited
to have Francesco Cirelli join us onthe Connected table. Bien Venutola, thank
you so much for this invitation.I appreciate that well, Francesco, we're
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happy to have you on and wereally enjoyed visiting your winery as well.
It was, as Melanie said,you create your wines in Amphora, which
is kind of a growing trend ina lot of places in Italy and around
the world these days to use Amphorato make some of the wines, but
you actually make all your wines inAmphora, so you've gone a step further,
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and we were really happy to tastethe wines too. They were just
delicious. Let's start with location.We kind of set you up, but
I'll have to say it was quitethe ride in our bus to Agailli,
which is really more inland and ina very dramatic area. So set the
stage by describing where you are inthe region of a breed cell. Yes,
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sure, thanks for this opportunity.I always love to talk about my
region and the place where we are. So we are. I can say
that we are almost in the middleof nowhere, but only like I mean,
just thirteen kilometris from the from thesea and forty kilometris from the Grand
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Tasso, which is the highest peakof the Talidappennines. And so yeah,
we are in the hilly area,right inside a natural reserve called Reseratri,
which is under the patronage of theWWF. It was a very dramatic place,
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Melanie. We went down a numberof very small and pottled roads to
get there. It was kind offun and it was pouring rain when we
got there, but then the suncame out and everything opened up and we
had a beautiful visit with you.They have in that valley that Francesco's winery
and Melanie. They also have somebad lands, steep slope that you really
can't grow anything on. So itwas it was really very dramatic. It's
very beautiful, like the Colongus.We're curious, Francesco, we brought you
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to this area. Did you comehere as a young boy and you were
drawing? Yah? Nice question.Actually it was really it just happened.
So at that time, when Iwas twenty three years old, I was
almost on my way to get mygraduation in business administration at Italian University.
But at the same time I wasdreaming about being involved at some level in
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agriculture, in farming, because mygrandparents were both side coming from from the
land, from the soil, andso I started dreaming and sharing this dream
with my parents. And one dayit happened that we just got lost there,
I mean, driving the car tryingto see beautiful places and looking for
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properties to to to buy. Weended up in that place. We just
stepped down the car and we hadthis dramatic view in front of us,
the bad length and the up andnines and the sea on the on the
on the west side, on theeast side actually, and we felt in
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love immediately, and we were luckyenough that there was a ticket with our
whole number think that that property wason sale. And that night, I
mean, I just came back homeand the first thing I did was calling
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this the family and yeah. Andafter one month the deal was done and
I changed totally my life and Imoved back to brutes On and start my
ah, yeah, my drink.That's serendipity, it was, wasn't it.
So this was this was two thousandand three. And then you said
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said about obviously you bought the property, and you said about planting vineyard.
There was a very old vineyard,which I wasn't able to to say it
because it was it was planted thathad at that time, I mean in
the m in a bad place,so it was not suitable for a high
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quality project which I had, likethe one I had in my mind,
and so I had to destroy it. And we've replanted from scratch. So
when it pushes the land, therewas only this old vineyard and one actor
of olive trees, and that's told. So there was almost nothing. And
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vines take time. So you producedyour first wine, and I believe two
thousan eleven. Right, yeah,because the first vineyard I planted was in
two thousand and six, so Ihad to wait five years before getting good
fruity. And you're self taught,so we just want to, you know,
talk about that. So during thistime, did you apprentice with that?
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You know, obviously from a businessstandpoint, that's a long time the
way to start producing your inventory.Did you during that time study or apprentice
with anybody or kind of give usthat sense of how you became the winemaker
as well as a business person.Yeah. Well, actually that was one
of the craziest things I've done,so starting everything from scratch without any knowledgeable
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about one making. So at thattime I had this good friend who was
wine maker and also very interesting,small producer of wines in a brute zone.
And I remember that the first dayof the harvest, I brought all
the grapes in the garage because atthat time I haven't had, I mean,
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a real winery. So I wasmaking my first attempts with my first
three MPs in my garage and Icalled him and I almost pray him,
just please explain me how to startthe press. So I didn't know even
how to start the machine, soit was like I don't know how to
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call it. Actually it was somethingcrazy, but it worked, so I'm
happy. That's great. You know, you actually learned from the ground up.
As they say, yeah, Isay that I learned. I learned
by mistaking. I don't know ifthat makes sense in English, but we
have this word in Italian. Solearning about with a lot of mistakes,
thanks to thanks to a lot ofmistakes and failures. And now I mean
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in the last years, of coursewe grow up. We're doing some more
more bottled, and I decided tohire full time wind maker with my right
hand, and we are doing everythingtogether. So at a certain point it's
important to recognize your limit and builda team that can manage every thing better
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than what you can do well.You have to divide and conquer is in
business and to build your team.Otherwise you're doing it all yourself and that
doesn't get you anywhere except in circles. So a couple of things. You
are one hundred percent organic, minimalintervention and as we started beginning, you
do your vitification and everything in amphora. Why is this important to you?
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And let's talk about your philosophy.Yeah, my philosophy is very It's very
simple. Less is more and andI truly believe that Amphora really helped me
to get to this point where theless we make, the better eats.
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So we try to respect through itand we try to do the less during
the wine making in order to putin the bottle a real authentic picture of
our there are and I'm fora.I mean, really, it's so helpful
because it doesn't it doesn't give anyflavor and external flavor to the wine.
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It respects the original flavor and theoriginal taste of the wine. It just
helps the wine to refine. Respectingis authenticity. We have had a lot
of conversations with visitors about Amphora,from the size, to the shape to
the material made. You have differentAmphora at CHERRELLI how do these elements impact
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the wine? And I mean,I guess we equated much like barrels.
You know, different sizes and materialsimpact the wine. So give us an
example. With Emphora, you usethe different kinds. So the best example
is the fact that I mean Amphoraworks like exactly like Barique, so wooden
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cask. But I mean because itallows the wine to breathe and to get
the oxygen from the outside it,but it doesn't give any add flavor.
So this is the magic about Amphora. And also it really helps the wine
to moderate the tendons because of theoxygen and because of its form and dimension
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so in size. So it's um, it's a it's a great container.
I mean, I'm so happy aboutthat. That's why I'm only working with
them for us since the real beginning, since being Tachou and eleven, and
never change it. And I don'tthink I will never change them. Two
other questions and what they even ask, You know, you get your specifically
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sourced from Emphora and Tuscany, andit's I think this producer is fairly producing
producing, So why is that?And is it a more expensive process to
do this? Yeah, I'm sourcing, Yeah, yeah, I'm so.
I'm sourcing them for us also fromArtenova in Tuscany because at that time in
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eleven, when I start uh studyingand analyzing the market of the forest,
it was the first result I goton the Google so and and they were
i mean the only one doing Imean on a professional way. So I
called them and I visited them andI was just impressed by the quality of
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their of their work. And alsoin in the last years I found another
producer from a different area, butI only have one one from from this
guy from Atala, which is upnor North Ada in Trentino. And the
cost of production, yes, it'stremendously more expensive because I mean you really
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need to you can only work byhand, and everything has been by hand,
and you have to be still tdeer when it comes to cleaning,
and then so you have to spenda lot of water and a lot of
steam. So yeah, the finalI mean, at the end of the
year, the cause is pretty bigger. You know, I'm curious, Francesco.
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One of the one of the thingsthat people pay attention to a lot
in winemaking is temperature control, whichis why the sameless steel tanks are jacketed
with the cooling unit. But youcan't do that with them for us.
So how do you control the temperaturein the winery when you're making wine to
make sure that you're getting the bestwine that you can add of the amphorus?
Yeah, so there are solutions alsoif you work with them for us,
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so there are some ways more let'ssay artisanal way to control the temperatures.
But actually we we excavated and wewe build this kind of amphoraia,
so the place where all them forus are and we covered them with sand
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and still and and stones so toum keep the temperature as stable as possible.
Um. And we do have verygood results, especially with the with
the whites and the Rossett and sometimeswe can software a little bit on with
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the red with but I mean sofar, so good. We saw the
sand and stone, it was likethey were buried, and that's how they
do it. Also in Georgia we'veseen the and for buried in the ground.
Yeah. I've seen a couple ofother wineries in Italy as well.
Yeah, and and and it's funnyon your So we want to just let
our listeners know that zev Rovene RoveneSelections as your importer and on their site
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they talk you talk about how youhave to wear a bathing suit to get
inside the and for to clean it, because of course it's all about you
know, keeping everything clean. I'mtrying to visualize that. Yeah, that's
the funniest. What are some ofthe challenges of you know, it's a
great philosophy. But with every prothere's also a challenge. What are your
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challenges starting with your location to yourapproach. Well, yeah, I mean
we face many challenges ever here that'sthat's our that's our job. So we
always say that we are under thesky under foreman. We cannot forecasts,
and so whatever it comes from thesky, we need to try to react
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in the best way possible, sothat the first challenge that we are facing
those years is for sure that theclimate. Because for example, I mean
this year we had the most rainyyear ever if we compare with the last
forty forty five years in a buzzoso and you experience that that because when
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you came, I mean the weatherwas not that nice at all. So
it's too much rain. And ofcourse problems in the vine yards, uh
and and and and on the countrylast year. In the last three or
four years, we face i meanthe draft and there is hot temperature,
so every year is different. Thereis not consistent weather, and so yeah,
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we have to adapt to that.I think that this is the most
difficult thing to manage because I mean, if we have problems in the in
the cellar our, I mean,logistics were roused whatever. I mean,
we can always fix it, butwith the weather there's nothing to do unfortunately,
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so it's pretty pretty pretty difficult.We'll see what's gonna happen in the
last in the next year. Oh, everybody is experiencing that, it seems
like right avin everywhere, Yeah,everywhere. Yeah, So Bruto has is
known for very specific grapes. Firstof all, all your grapes a steake
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ground or do you source from elsewhere, Francesca. And when it when it
comes to the wines that we producein Amphora, we wholly make them out
of our property buyings. But thenwe also have a kind of a second
line, which I mean it's totallyoutsourced from organic certified producers. We're working
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with them since like ten years now, and we produce a more entry level
daily kind of a daily drinking stylewine Stanley steel tanks, fermented and refined,
but still I mean a driven authenticityand simplicity, which is from our
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side, I mean another value.So when we were there, we did
a tasting. It's point la Colinabiological is and how it relates to Naolina
Biologica. Yeah, thank you forthe for this. I mean, like
Colina Biologica is like it's an egos, so an eghost is I mean,
a way to produce wine outsourcing thegrapes. So it's a brand that we
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established to um delivered to the wineto the markets. UM more entry level
wines, but still with um um, without enticity and a sense of a
great sense of of place. Sothat's that's like colin A Biologica, whereas
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there for a wines are under thebrand Francesco chi Rali because um, as
I was saying before, and they'remade out of our They're exclusively made out
of our property mines and property grapes. Thank you for that clarification, and
just for our listeners, if you'reshopping for these um you can't miss the
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label because it's like a thumb printof color in an amphora, like a
big splot you drop a wine splashin am four of white, red and
and exactly rose and and and Ithink it's a very simple, but it
actually the label kind of reflects thesimplicity and the it's a minimal intervention label.
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Thank you. So as I toldyou before, I mean we are
minimal and we we are for Imean, we really believe the less is
more so the less we put inthe label, the batter it is also
for the consumer. Well, let'stalk about some of the native grapes that
you work with UM in your amfor starting with uh, there's two in
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particular that bruteso is most well knownfor. UM. We'll start with the
white tribio, the bruteso. Now, as we all know, there's many
tribianos. It's a prolific rape,but it has its own unique style in
a bruteso, and it's a signature. Yes, indeed, I think,
I mean, of course, Imean I'm totally involved in that, but
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I really find the tribiano to beone of the most interesting rape because it
has been under valued for us somany years. And even though I mean
it has I mean all the qualityand all the characteristics still to shine for
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drink ability but also for a eleganceand for u for aging. So we
have iconic one where is in abruteso showing that tribiano can be a real
um an econo again an econic wineall over all over the world. And
we are so proud of that.But it's like I mean everything, I
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mean, it always it always depends, I mean, how you work with
that grape, so you can makestupid wine with the grade with that grape,
but it can't even make I mean, if you really believe, and
if you have strong identity and clearideas, you can really make great wine.
You know. I always wonder Davidand Francesco why trebiano is malanine,
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because we've it's prolific. It's everywhere. It's like it's like the vine that
coeps and crawls everywhere. But it'sso different, and some regions respect it
more than others, don't you think, Francesca, Yes, totally, totally.
Then it really depends from the traditionof this place. You know,
Italy, it has like I mean, nineteen or twenty I don't even remember,
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different regions, and every region showsits own traditional history, and this
tradition and history reflects also um theidea that they have for that specific rate.
So in a brut soo we changedit. I mean, these common
sense about the Tribuano and I meanI say we, but actually again,
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I mean if many producers did.I mean a great job before I mean
my before, my my wines,my my starting in this world. So
it really it really depends I mean, what do you want to what do
you want to do? Some regions, I mean they they're still focused on
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tribuano as through it suitable for bulkwines only or for blending other other wines
in a brutzo. In the lasttwenty years we wanted to it's a kind
of a renaissance. It's a newwave. And you you say that at
the beginning. There is a newgeneration of wine makers, especially small um
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one or second generation one or isthat are really changing the the way um
and are really changing. I meanthe the wine itself and and and then
the tribana. So they're working differentlyin the in the vineyards and working differently
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in the during the whine making inorder to produce super authentic, ter war
driven wines. Like them, don'tyou? I did? Yeah, I
like them a lot. Francesco anotherone of the grapes that you make wine
with is actually kind of a favoriteof mine from the region Pecorino. Another
white let's talk about the pecorino youmake, Yeah, the Queeno, I
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mean it's let's say that it hasbeen the one of Yeah, I would
say the last this colvery in abrut So it's like like again twenty years
that when makers started to replant itand and experimenting with that. With this
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grape, it's more a romantic thantribuano. It delivers more halcohol. It's
pretty difficult to harvest this grape andthe right momentum. And I would say
that. I mean, in myopinion, I don't think it has more
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complex than Tribiano because I mean,I'm a truly lover and a true,
true fan of Tribiano. So ifI had to choose between the two,
my heart will choose definitely Tribiano.I think as pecorinos more. I would
say more. How can I saythat more? Not standard eyes, but
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I mean I think that please widerrange of consumer. Let's put this way.
Tribano is a little bit more niche, I will say Pecuarino. No,
the Tribuano is more niche in thepecorino. Now it's interesting. Yeah,
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that's my that's my personal opinion.I mean I'm sure. I mean,
there are thirty wine makers from abrutso ready to decertine what I'm saying,
because I mean, that's the magicof wine. I mean, it's
so personal, it's so subjective.So yeah, I believe that. I
believe that the tribunal. For me, it's more elegant and more refined.
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It's more Yeah, So I'm justreading about it for a listeners. It's
Pecorino is really in the it's abrutso the market, it's it's it's a
very regionalized great not to be confusedwith the cheese Pepperina cheese, even though
the name is derived from the sheep, but they're very different, though sheep
used to eat the grapes on theground. I'm reading here in a wine
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business. It's had a little bitof a renaissance in the United States,
which is kind of interesting. Butas you said, it was rediscovered and
making its way. We liked ita lot. You said it's difficult to
work with. Why is that because, I mean, it's very because it
delivers a sugar so fast and ifyou means the right day, I mean,
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if you means one one the rightday of harvest, the day after
you will get i mean one orone point five alcohol percentage more than the
previous day. And so it's verydifficult to deliver a drinkability because it tends
to produce a lot of sugar andfor a lot of alcohol. Okay,
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that makes sense. Should we moveon the brands. Well, let's talk
about the chairs wall I thought we'dstart with the Muntipuccian Brutzo, since that's
what the chairs has made with,right, So let's start with the elephant,
the big, the biggie, theMontepulciano de Bruzzo, which is the
red which has a long history,a lot of misconceptions still and is the
foundation for the chairs Wallow de Bruzzo, which we'll talk about next. Yeah.
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Well, in my opinion, Imean, Bruzzo is uh, it's
like a Mustang, So it's Imean, it's um. It's when I
think, when I think muti Bruzzo, I imagine a power and very very
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powerful, powerful grape and therefore powerfulwine. So um, it's very It's
very hard from my side to delivermy style of Montepucciano, which is more
um, which is must based ondrinkability, acidity and elegance. So and
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that's why I mean there was amisconception about this great because it's always it
has been always used as a blendto reinforce weak wines from different areas of
Italy and Europe as well. Soit's almost the same story of Tregiano.
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Many years of the bulk wine,low prices, bad images on the markets,
and it's only the last twenty twentyfive years that I mean again iconic
wine makers and one ways we're ableto establish a new idea of as one
of the candidate to produce I mean, for sure one of the best wine
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in Europe. I love the Colt. He calls it the Mustang because you
know, it's like strong heard anddrive it fast and think it drinking fast.
And in the United States it wasit's less. It's an inexpensive wine
in the United States, and probablylet a few people are unaware of its
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potential because as you said, itwas, like you said with Trepiano,
bulk wine, which is like alot of Italy. You know, for
a long time, Italian wine producesneeded to make money and they need to
just sell wine, so they wentbulk versus quality. And then there's huge
shift started happening about twenty years agoto go focus on quality and lower yields
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to do finer wines. It's it'sall a philosophical approach to business, right
exactly. It's all about your philosophicapproach, How would you compare? I
always like doing this because I youknow, again, this is a podcast,
so I try to help our listenersvisualize or think in a tactile since
the way, how would you cancompair or what great would you compare tribiano
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job rutzo too if someone was thinking, I'd like to try it. But
what is it like? What isit compared to? Wow, that's a
very difficult, it is, butthat's how a lot of Americans think.
Francescos Yeah, yeah, well,I mean tribuano. What can be tribiano?
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If is a mustang, tribuanal couldbe? I would say a dolphin
because I mean it reminds me freshness, acidity, drink ability, smoothness,
and also elegance. So if youwant to continue using this animal symbolism,
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I think that dolphin can really fitinto my idea of tribiano. Well,
we can't it often, but Iget the idea. But in terms of
a grape on the spot. Butin terms of grapes, I mean,
it's the magic of the wine isthe fact that every grape I mean tastes
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different. So it's it's very almostimpossible to compare tribuana to any other trape
of the world. There are somegenetical similarities to the uniblanc in France.
Uh and yeah, but if youtake if we think about flavors, nest
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one of the best descript or ifthere is the green almond. But again,
just think about very drinkable yet elegantwine and I mean taste it.
That's the best way. What aboutmultiple I mean, it's it's read through,
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it's it's wild berries. And incredibly, even though I don't make any
usage of wooden caste, at acertain point of its life, my multiple
channels start delivering like chocolate and coffeean aults that I love totally. When
(33:27):
I tasted and I got a lotof earthy Brandley BlackBerry um herbal notes.
You said, you know, sometimesit's you think about when you taste wine.
You think about where the grapes aregrown, and the mountains and the
forests and the trees and the foliage, and it all kind of builds into
the character the ter wine. Yeah, yeah, that's true. So let's
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talk about the chair as wallow winethat uh huh. We don't get a
lot of in the United States becauseit's a rose first of all, but
most of the rose that comes intothis country is is much lighter in color,
dry acidity, etcetera, etcetera.So it's a style that you make
in the brutso the chair as wellathat we really don't get a lot of.
But it was just delicious and it'sa very gastronomic wine in my opinion.
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So let's talking about it, andit's unique to Bruto Chasa Bruto is
a d ocg it's a duc yesexactly. So yeah, it's I mean,
I must admit that I'm I'm agreat fan of btso it's probably the
my best preferred wine. So it'salso and it's also because I mean it
(34:36):
was for us the most difficult wineto produce in Amphora because it was so
sensitive to the oxygen and it wasso hard to find the right balance during
the during the wine making, butalso a hard job. We had to
work hardly in the beineer to getthe perfect maduration time. And that's why
(35:01):
I mean, I love him.And it's also the wine that I always
say that it's the wine that expressthe real, uh, the real soul
of a Brutso because it's a simplewine, it could be rustic some some
(35:22):
way, but I mean with alot of passion, with a great heart
and um and very gastronomic. Imean, I just love him with everything
we produce in a Bruteso. Andit's and it's also I always say that
it's the wine that the best,that the express our traditions and our history,
(35:47):
because when when when it comes tothe cuisine, we have three major
culture within our region, we haveI mean the cuisine from the sea,
sine, from the hill and fromthe mountain, from the mountains, sorry,
and is the only one fitting perfectlythis tree different cuisine and that's why
(36:16):
it's it's so magic and that's whywe love him. We love it here
in a Brutso Unfortunately it's so um. I mean, I think that the
ninety percent of the US see thatwe produce is sold within the region.
But it's a huge pity because againreally match with a lot of different cuisine
(36:40):
from all over the world. Well, we fell all over that. We
did a masterclass. We did dothat. Yeah, there were it was
interesting and I think you agree,David. You know the chouts is a
deeper, deeper colored rose. Ithink you do your masceration for six hours
a crack with I'm wrong, exactlyright, and uh, but the range
(37:07):
was very different. They were different, huge different flavors, much like other
styles of rose. And if there'sa rose for everybody, what do you
feel the ideal quintessential cherosuola to brutzo, What would the ideal characteristics be like
if he were a wine director talkingto a customer or someone's trying to sell
(37:27):
it to someone who it's not familiarwith it. Yeah, I would definitely
say versatility. So again, itsversatility when it comes to one food pairing
is incomparable. Well, it's certainlya wine that you know, can take
you through a meal. I don'tknow if I would hang out drink is
(37:51):
sipping on the at the beach asmuch as I would with a really great
piece of meat or chicken or afish. You know what, we do
need to a shout out about thecuisine of a brute, So we went
to the triboci restaurants. Yeah,yeah, why don't you? Because you
mentioned cuisine and pairing, this isa great segue about some of the unique
(38:16):
cuisines of a brute. So let'sstart with the tribocci and what those are.
Well, trabocci. I'm sure youyou tasted the fish soup with the
tomato sauce, with the different kindof fishes that you can fish from a
(38:39):
trabocco, which is a very oldsystem of fishing. It's called paranza.
So they have these huge nets thatthey go under water and then they just
hang it up and take i meanall the all the fishes that they have
been trupid by the this huge net. So yeah, fish fish soup,
(39:06):
for example, is one of thebest food bearing for me. So when
you go to these they're old fishermenprocessing huts, I guess they're really huts
facilities. They look like somebody describedthem as they look like spiders standing in
the water. Yeah. Yeah,yeah, and you cross. So,
(39:30):
I mean they're very rustic. Whenwe dined at one, the water was
just below us and the facilities werea long way away, and the food
just kept coming out and coming outand coming out, and it was really
interesting. Yeah, it's It's oneof the places where I always bring i
(39:51):
mean my imporders or clients from fromfrom from especially from from US and also
from other nations that I mean,they often come to visit us and they
just I mean love, the troublicof style and and the yeah, the
life. This is a surprise,isn't it. Now? Speaking of coming
(40:15):
there, you took us to showus. You're clamping, your two glamping
little cabins. Talk to us aboutthe experience. Yeah, it was another
dream, a dream into the dream, a dream and a dream. Or
three years ago, we were justbored by the COVID period. We were
(40:40):
locked in our house and together withmy wife Michaela, we started thinking about
the first thing we will do afterthe COVID and we start dreaming about visiting
i mean super cool countries and dosome outside life and camping. And we
(41:04):
start watching i mean following like Instagramaccounts of this super cool and super Nordic
designed cabins that are that we mostlyhave in the Nordic countries in Europe,
and we said, wow, Imean, we have a good spot,
we have a great nature whether wemake these I mean in our state,
(41:28):
in our property, and so westarted I mean it was almost like them
for us. I mean we fellwe fell in love with something and we
try to apply to our and wetry to do that in our in our
property, and it's working. Weare so happy. Of course, it's
so demanding because I mean, hostingpeople is uh, it's a kind of
(41:53):
a mission. So you have trulybelieve in that. In they had the
value of hosting people and welcome peoplein your in your house. And we
really do our best. The cabinsare super comfortable with the air conditioning and
outstanding view on the valley. Comeback soon and spend a few nights in
(42:17):
our cabin. Oh, they reallyare out there. I mean again,
as you said, sometimes the mostamazing things you take a lot more distance
and effort to get to. Anddefinitely Trelle is an example. How would
people go about finding your winery andthe glamping experience? How, yeah,
do you work with a book companyor you just go your website? Yes,
(42:40):
yes, exactly through our website orbooking or airbnb. We are most
on all the European platform for booking. But of course, I mean we
have our website www. Dot agriculturedot com and you can just slug into
(43:04):
and you find all the there's alsothe virtual tour of the cabins, so
you can step inside and see thefar nitures and the view. And we
went on. We actually took alittle two of those glamping cabins too.
They're kind of they're kind of likeSafari tents and really just well it's at
they're cabins. No, I knowthat, but they're really really nice.
(43:27):
I mean they're well appointed. Imean there's and let me just say air
conditioning. Air conditioning is a rarityand you're so that's like a big bonus.
And hair dryer. So it hasall the modern conveniences that one would
want a need. But you're stillway out there and the views are amazing.
There's olive groves, there's fines,there are these calockys uh and valleys
(43:51):
and hills. It's quite quite spectacular. We have two final questions we'd like
to ask you. First of all, who do you most admire in this
industry and why? I mean,you're self taught, so it's always interesting
(44:13):
to you know, you interview alot of people that apprentice here and there,
and they're born in a wine familyeset cetera. Being self taught and
an entrepreneur, it's interesting to saywho you admire and why. M hmm.
Well, there are many people thatI admire because I'm very humiles,
so I I mean, I knowwhat my limits are and they can easily
(44:36):
recognized. A love of my colleagues. I'll give you a smart as where
I must admire im areas in Europethey were able to really change the image
of their wines and their terre.For example, I'll give you the sample
(44:58):
of Bourgeolis or or Juha. Sothey were really able to change the common
sense and all the prejudices about theirwines. And they did it like in
twenty years or even less. Andthis is what I really wish for my
region. It would be great tobe able to make what they've done.
(45:23):
Just think about Bourgeois and more gone. I mean their wines are now,
I mean in all the coolest winelist in all over the world, and
they were known or just for Imean the the new wine. I mean
every year with this gamet that noone was attensioning, and they totally revolutionated
(45:47):
I mean the idea. And soI admire, I mean I mostly admire
in these places where they were ableto work a team on the international markets.
That's a really neat comparison and agood one for a Bruiso. I
mean, we were so impressed wecan't wait to go back. I mean
(46:08):
the wineries I have to say wewere kind of we hit the we hit
the lucky draw and when it cameto the wineries we visited, including yours,
and definitely have earmarked a brutso togo back because it is a vast
region. I think a lot ofpeople don't realize because I think it's a
beachside community on the Adriatic. Butthe much sicily as we went, you
(46:32):
go into that mountainous area of eacharea and you're blown away by the style
and quality of the wines produced,because there's something about mountain wines that just
screamed, hear wine, all thattension and dealing with the different elements of
weather that those elements can create someamazing wines and soils. Right, Definitely,
(46:54):
definitely. I mean I love myregion and I always by everybody to
come and visit us. I meanit's it's a great place still still to
discover, so a little adventurers,great nature, great too, great people.
Uh, I mean truly spiritual placewhere you can recover and and at
(47:22):
the same time I mean get Imean the best out from from our from
our land. We have the sea, we have mountains, we we can
we can ski in forty five minutesfrom Pescata. From the airport, in
forty five minutes you can go upon the mountain and uh and reach the
(47:43):
first ski resorts. We have beautifulsea, fantastic hills. So we are
pretty complete and we are still pleasedand so happy when people from outside come
and visit us, So please dowell. We plan to come back again
and we encourage our listeners to dothe same again. We have been speaking
(48:07):
with Francesco Cirelli, who's will werepresents the new image of Abruzzo, the
dynamic energy, the commitment to thesoil and the earth and minimal intervention and
bringing out the true Tarawan character ofsome wines that are very native to this
area. You've got the Montepulciano daBruzzo, You've got Trepiano de Bruzzo,
(48:30):
You've got the Pepperino and of courseCerasuola de Bruzzo. These are very unique
to the region and definitely worth seekingout when you dine out or go to
your retail. Ask. You know, I always say to people, ask,
ask and you'll get Thank you forjoining us. We just want to
again give your website, Agricola CirelliCI R E l l I dot com.
(48:58):
Thank you for joining us on theConnected Table. Thank you Melanie,
thank you David, and thank youfor your to all your listeners our pleasure,
and as usual, we hope thatyou enjoyed this. We hope we've
transported you somewhere new to discover,because we want you to stay insatiably curious
The topics and opinions expressed in thefollowing show are solely those of the hosts
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(00:22):
Radio. Welcome to the Connected TableLive where your hosts Melana Young and David
(00:45):
Ransom. You're insatiably curious culinary couple. We bring you the dynamic people who
work front and center and behind thescenes in wine, food, spirits and
hospitality around the world. We enjoytraveling, we enjoy bringing their stories to
you or listeners, and we hopeyou'll take our suggestions and theirs as well,
and go out and try their wines, visit their restaurants, visit their
(01:07):
wineries, and be adventurous because wealways believe life is about eating, drinking,
exploring, and inspiring. And speakingof inspiring, we have a guest
joining us from a region. Werecently visited a Brutso, right, David,
absolutely Melanie, a place that wehad not been to before, so
it was an eye opener for usin a lot of ways. And lovely
(01:29):
wines, wonderful people and of coursea great coastline. So just a little
visualization about where is a Brutso.It is on the Adriatic side of Italy.
And what's neat about Abrutso is onone side is bordered by the appanan
Mountains, which are really like thespine of Italy. They travel down the
(01:51):
center and they're very steep and it'sa very dramatic drive actually, which we
did from the coast of Abruzzo toRome through the Appennini's and then on the
seaside it's Adriatic, which has verycalm waves. It's very placid there.
It's a popular vacation spot, verylow key. We stayed at a lovely
(02:13):
you know, tourist hotel, lotsof fun restaurants, obviously seafood, but
also this area is known for itsmeat dishes as well as seafood. Because
you've got the mountains and you've gotthe sea. So our trip was to
learn about the wines, of aBruzzo and we had an incredible experience,
and so our guest today is oneof the wineries we visited, and this
(02:37):
is a i think a young producerdoing a lot of things that we're seeing
happening or starting to happen around Italy. He works with Amphora. His name
is Francesco Chiarelli and he and hiswife Mikola owned an organic farm surrounded about
twenty three hectars more inland near theGrandsas National Park, which we'll talk about.
(03:00):
As we said, he works inAmphora, which is his thought process.
He is Demeter certified and fairly ayoung producer, and we're really excited
to have Francesco Cirelli join us onthe Connected table. Bien Venutola, thank
you so much for this invitation.I appreciate that well, Francesco, we're
(03:21):
happy to have you on and wereally enjoyed visiting your winery as well.
It was, as Melanie said,you create your wines in Amphora, which
is kind of a growing trend ina lot of places in Italy and around
the world these days to use Amphorato make some of the wines, but
you actually make all your wines inAmphora, so you've gone a step further,
(03:43):
and we were really happy to tastethe wines too. They were just
delicious. Let's start with location.We kind of set you up, but
I'll have to say it was quitethe ride in our bus to Agailli,
which is really more inland and ina very dramatic area. So set the
stage by describing where you are inthe region of a breed cell. Yes,
(04:04):
sure, thanks for this opportunity.I always love to talk about my
region and the place where we are. So we are. I can say
that we are almost in the middleof nowhere, but only like I mean,
just thirteen kilometris from the from thesea and forty kilometris from the Grand
(04:24):
Tasso, which is the highest peakof the Talidappennines. And so yeah,
we are in the hilly area,right inside a natural reserve called Reseratri,
which is under the patronage of theWWF. It was a very dramatic place,
(04:45):
Melanie. We went down a numberof very small and pottled roads to
get there. It was kind offun and it was pouring rain when we
got there, but then the suncame out and everything opened up and we
had a beautiful visit with you.They have in that valley that Francesco's winery
and Melanie. They also have somebad lands, steep slope that you really
can't grow anything on. So itwas it was really very dramatic. It's
very beautiful, like the Colongus.We're curious, Francesco, we brought you
(05:09):
to this area. Did you comehere as a young boy and you were
drawing? Yah? Nice question.Actually it was really it just happened.
So at that time, when Iwas twenty three years old, I was
almost on my way to get mygraduation in business administration at Italian University.
But at the same time I wasdreaming about being involved at some level in
(05:33):
agriculture, in farming, because mygrandparents were both side coming from from the
land, from the soil, andso I started dreaming and sharing this dream
with my parents. And one dayit happened that we just got lost there,
I mean, driving the car tryingto see beautiful places and looking for
(05:58):
properties to to to buy. Weended up in that place. We just
stepped down the car and we hadthis dramatic view in front of us,
the bad length and the up andnines and the sea on the on the
on the west side, on theeast side actually, and we felt in
(06:23):
love immediately, and we were luckyenough that there was a ticket with our
whole number think that that property wason sale. And that night, I
mean, I just came back homeand the first thing I did was calling
(06:44):
this the family and yeah. Andafter one month the deal was done and
I changed totally my life and Imoved back to brutes On and start my
ah, yeah, my drink.That's serendipity, it was, wasn't it.
So this was this was two thousandand three. And then you said
(07:08):
said about obviously you bought the property, and you said about planting vineyard.
There was a very old vineyard,which I wasn't able to to say it
because it was it was planted thathad at that time, I mean in
the m in a bad place,so it was not suitable for a high
(07:28):
quality project which I had, likethe one I had in my mind,
and so I had to destroy it. And we've replanted from scratch. So
when it pushes the land, therewas only this old vineyard and one actor
of olive trees, and that's told. So there was almost nothing. And
(07:48):
vines take time. So you producedyour first wine, and I believe two
thousan eleven. Right, yeah,because the first vineyard I planted was in
two thousand and six, so Ihad to wait five years before getting good
fruity. And you're self taught,so we just want to, you know,
talk about that. So during thistime, did you apprentice with that?
(08:09):
You know, obviously from a businessstandpoint, that's a long time the
way to start producing your inventory.Did you during that time study or apprentice
with anybody or kind of give usthat sense of how you became the winemaker
as well as a business person.Yeah. Well, actually that was one
of the craziest things I've done,so starting everything from scratch without any knowledgeable
(08:31):
about one making. So at thattime I had this good friend who was
wine maker and also very interesting,small producer of wines in a brute zone.
And I remember that the first dayof the harvest, I brought all
the grapes in the garage because atthat time I haven't had, I mean,
(08:52):
a real winery. So I wasmaking my first attempts with my first
three MPs in my garage and Icalled him and I almost pray him,
just please explain me how to startthe press. So I didn't know even
how to start the machine, soit was like I don't know how to
(09:13):
call it. Actually it was somethingcrazy, but it worked, so I'm
happy. That's great. You know, you actually learned from the ground up.
As they say, yeah, Isay that I learned. I learned
by mistaking. I don't know ifthat makes sense in English, but we
have this word in Italian. Solearning about with a lot of mistakes,
thanks to thanks to a lot ofmistakes and failures. And now I mean
(09:35):
in the last years, of coursewe grow up. We're doing some more
more bottled, and I decided tohire full time wind maker with my right
hand, and we are doing everythingtogether. So at a certain point it's
important to recognize your limit and builda team that can manage every thing better
(10:00):
than what you can do well.You have to divide and conquer is in
business and to build your team.Otherwise you're doing it all yourself and that
doesn't get you anywhere except in circles. So a couple of things. You
are one hundred percent organic, minimalintervention and as we started beginning, you
do your vitification and everything in amphora. Why is this important to you?
(10:24):
And let's talk about your philosophy.Yeah, my philosophy is very It's very
simple. Less is more and andI truly believe that Amphora really helped me
to get to this point where theless we make, the better eats.
(10:46):
So we try to respect through itand we try to do the less during
the wine making in order to putin the bottle a real authentic picture of
our there are and I'm fora.I mean, really, it's so helpful
because it doesn't it doesn't give anyflavor and external flavor to the wine.
(11:07):
It respects the original flavor and theoriginal taste of the wine. It just
helps the wine to refine. Respectingis authenticity. We have had a lot
of conversations with visitors about Amphora,from the size, to the shape to
the material made. You have differentAmphora at CHERRELLI how do these elements impact
(11:31):
the wine? And I mean,I guess we equated much like barrels.
You know, different sizes and materialsimpact the wine. So give us an
example. With Emphora, you usethe different kinds. So the best example
is the fact that I mean Amphoraworks like exactly like Barique, so wooden
(11:52):
cask. But I mean because itallows the wine to breathe and to get
the oxygen from the outside it,but it doesn't give any add flavor.
So this is the magic about Amphora. And also it really helps the wine
to moderate the tendons because of theoxygen and because of its form and dimension
(12:22):
so in size. So it's um, it's a it's a great container.
I mean, I'm so happy aboutthat. That's why I'm only working with
them for us since the real beginning, since being Tachou and eleven, and
never change it. And I don'tthink I will never change them. Two
other questions and what they even ask, You know, you get your specifically
(12:43):
sourced from Emphora and Tuscany, andit's I think this producer is fairly producing
producing, So why is that?And is it a more expensive process to
do this? Yeah, I'm sourcing, Yeah, yeah, I'm so.
I'm sourcing them for us also fromArtenova in Tuscany because at that time in
(13:05):
eleven, when I start uh studyingand analyzing the market of the forest,
it was the first result I goton the Google so and and they were
i mean the only one doing Imean on a professional way. So I
called them and I visited them andI was just impressed by the quality of
(13:26):
their of their work. And alsoin in the last years I found another
producer from a different area, butI only have one one from from this
guy from Atala, which is upnor North Ada in Trentino. And the
cost of production, yes, it'stremendously more expensive because I mean you really
(13:50):
need to you can only work byhand, and everything has been by hand,
and you have to be still tdeer when it comes to cleaning,
and then so you have to spenda lot of water and a lot of
steam. So yeah, the finalI mean, at the end of the
year, the cause is pretty bigger. You know, I'm curious, Francesco.
(14:16):
One of the one of the thingsthat people pay attention to a lot
in winemaking is temperature control, whichis why the sameless steel tanks are jacketed
with the cooling unit. But youcan't do that with them for us.
So how do you control the temperaturein the winery when you're making wine to
make sure that you're getting the bestwine that you can add of the amphorus?
Yeah, so there are solutions alsoif you work with them for us,
(14:37):
so there are some ways more let'ssay artisanal way to control the temperatures.
But actually we we excavated and wewe build this kind of amphoraia,
so the place where all them forus are and we covered them with sand
(14:58):
and still and and stones so toum keep the temperature as stable as possible.
Um. And we do have verygood results, especially with the with
the whites and the Rossett and sometimeswe can software a little bit on with
(15:20):
the red with but I mean sofar, so good. We saw the
sand and stone, it was likethey were buried, and that's how they
do it. Also in Georgia we'veseen the and for buried in the ground.
Yeah. I've seen a couple ofother wineries in Italy as well.
Yeah, and and and it's funnyon your So we want to just let
our listeners know that zev Rovene RoveneSelections as your importer and on their site
(15:45):
they talk you talk about how youhave to wear a bathing suit to get
inside the and for to clean it, because of course it's all about you
know, keeping everything clean. I'mtrying to visualize that. Yeah, that's
the funniest. What are some ofthe challenges of you know, it's a
great philosophy. But with every prothere's also a challenge. What are your
(16:08):
challenges starting with your location to yourapproach. Well, yeah, I mean
we face many challenges ever here that'sthat's our that's our job. So we
always say that we are under thesky under foreman. We cannot forecasts,
and so whatever it comes from thesky, we need to try to react
(16:34):
in the best way possible, sothat the first challenge that we are facing
those years is for sure that theclimate. Because for example, I mean
this year we had the most rainyyear ever if we compare with the last
forty forty five years in a buzzoso and you experience that that because when
(16:59):
you came, I mean the weatherwas not that nice at all. So
it's too much rain. And ofcourse problems in the vine yards, uh
and and and and on the countrylast year. In the last three or
four years, we face i meanthe draft and there is hot temperature,
so every year is different. Thereis not consistent weather, and so yeah,
(17:30):
we have to adapt to that.I think that this is the most
difficult thing to manage because I mean, if we have problems in the in
the cellar our, I mean,logistics were roused whatever. I mean,
we can always fix it, butwith the weather there's nothing to do unfortunately,
(17:52):
so it's pretty pretty pretty difficult.We'll see what's gonna happen in the
last in the next year. Oh, everybody is experiencing that, it seems
like right avin everywhere, Yeah,everywhere. Yeah, So Bruto has is
known for very specific grapes. Firstof all, all your grapes a steake
(18:14):
ground or do you source from elsewhere, Francesca. And when it when it
comes to the wines that we producein Amphora, we wholly make them out
of our property buyings. But thenwe also have a kind of a second
line, which I mean it's totallyoutsourced from organic certified producers. We're working
(18:37):
with them since like ten years now, and we produce a more entry level
daily kind of a daily drinking stylewine Stanley steel tanks, fermented and refined,
but still I mean a driven authenticityand simplicity, which is from our
(19:00):
side, I mean another value.So when we were there, we did
a tasting. It's point la Colinabiological is and how it relates to Naolina
Biologica. Yeah, thank you forthe for this. I mean, like
Colina Biologica is like it's an egos, so an eghost is I mean,
a way to produce wine outsourcing thegrapes. So it's a brand that we
(19:26):
established to um delivered to the wineto the markets. UM more entry level
wines, but still with um um, without enticity and a sense of a
great sense of of place. Sothat's that's like colin A Biologica, whereas
(19:47):
there for a wines are under thebrand Francesco chi Rali because um, as
I was saying before, and they'remade out of our They're exclusively made out
of our property mines and property grapes. Thank you for that clarification, and
just for our listeners, if you'reshopping for these um you can't miss the
(20:08):
label because it's like a thumb printof color in an amphora, like a
big splot you drop a wine splashin am four of white, red and
and exactly rose and and and Ithink it's a very simple, but it
actually the label kind of reflects thesimplicity and the it's a minimal intervention label.
(20:34):
Thank you. So as I toldyou before, I mean we are
minimal and we we are for Imean, we really believe the less is
more so the less we put inthe label, the batter it is also
for the consumer. Well, let'stalk about some of the native grapes that
you work with UM in your amfor starting with uh, there's two in
(20:57):
particular that bruteso is most well knownfor. UM. We'll start with the
white tribio, the bruteso. Now, as we all know, there's many
tribianos. It's a prolific rape,but it has its own unique style in
a bruteso, and it's a signature. Yes, indeed, I think,
I mean, of course, Imean I'm totally involved in that, but
(21:22):
I really find the tribiano to beone of the most interesting rape because it
has been under valued for us somany years. And even though I mean
it has I mean all the qualityand all the characteristics still to shine for
(21:45):
drink ability but also for a eleganceand for u for aging. So we
have iconic one where is in abruteso showing that tribiano can be a real
um an econo again an econic wineall over all over the world. And
we are so proud of that.But it's like I mean everything, I
(22:07):
mean, it always it always depends, I mean, how you work with
that grape, so you can makestupid wine with the grade with that grape,
but it can't even make I mean, if you really believe, and
if you have strong identity and clearideas, you can really make great wine.
You know. I always wonder Davidand Francesco why trebiano is malanine,
(22:32):
because we've it's prolific. It's everywhere. It's like it's like the vine that
coeps and crawls everywhere. But it'sso different, and some regions respect it
more than others, don't you think, Francesca, Yes, totally, totally.
Then it really depends from the traditionof this place. You know,
Italy, it has like I mean, nineteen or twenty I don't even remember,
(22:55):
different regions, and every region showsits own traditional history, and this
tradition and history reflects also um theidea that they have for that specific rate.
So in a brut soo we changedit. I mean, these common
sense about the Tribuano and I meanI say we, but actually again,
(23:18):
I mean if many producers did.I mean a great job before I mean
my before, my my wines,my my starting in this world. So
it really it really depends I mean, what do you want to what do
you want to do? Some regions, I mean they they're still focused on
(23:41):
tribuano as through it suitable for bulkwines only or for blending other other wines
in a brutzo. In the lasttwenty years we wanted to it's a kind
of a renaissance. It's a newwave. And you you say that at
the beginning. There is a newgeneration of wine makers, especially small um
(24:07):
one or second generation one or isthat are really changing the the way um
and are really changing. I meanthe the wine itself and and and then
the tribana. So they're working differentlyin the in the vineyards and working differently
(24:30):
in the during the whine making inorder to produce super authentic, ter war
driven wines. Like them, don'tyou? I did? Yeah, I
like them a lot. Francesco anotherone of the grapes that you make wine
with is actually kind of a favoriteof mine from the region Pecorino. Another
white let's talk about the pecorino youmake, Yeah, the Queeno, I
(24:52):
mean it's let's say that it hasbeen the one of Yeah, I would
say the last this colvery in abrut So it's like like again twenty years
that when makers started to replant itand and experimenting with that. With this
(25:14):
grape, it's more a romantic thantribuano. It delivers more halcohol. It's
pretty difficult to harvest this grape andthe right momentum. And I would say
that. I mean, in myopinion, I don't think it has more
(25:36):
complex than Tribiano because I mean,I'm a truly lover and a true,
true fan of Tribiano. So ifI had to choose between the two,
my heart will choose definitely Tribiano.I think as pecorinos more. I would
say more. How can I saythat more? Not standard eyes, but
(26:00):
I mean I think that please widerrange of consumer. Let's put this way.
Tribano is a little bit more niche, I will say Pecuarino. No,
the Tribuano is more niche in thepecorino. Now it's interesting. Yeah,
(26:22):
that's my that's my personal opinion.I mean I'm sure. I mean,
there are thirty wine makers from abrutso ready to decertine what I'm saying,
because I mean, that's the magicof wine. I mean, it's
so personal, it's so subjective.So yeah, I believe that. I
believe that the tribunal. For me, it's more elegant and more refined.
(26:45):
It's more Yeah, So I'm justreading about it for a listeners. It's
Pecorino is really in the it's abrutso the market, it's it's it's a
very regionalized great not to be confusedwith the cheese Pepperina cheese, even though
the name is derived from the sheep, but they're very different, though sheep
used to eat the grapes on theground. I'm reading here in a wine
(27:10):
business. It's had a little bitof a renaissance in the United States,
which is kind of interesting. Butas you said, it was rediscovered and
making its way. We liked ita lot. You said it's difficult to
work with. Why is that because, I mean, it's very because it
delivers a sugar so fast and ifyou means the right day, I mean,
(27:34):
if you means one one the rightday of harvest, the day after
you will get i mean one orone point five alcohol percentage more than the
previous day. And so it's verydifficult to deliver a drinkability because it tends
to produce a lot of sugar andfor a lot of alcohol. Okay,
(27:59):
that makes sense. Should we moveon the brands. Well, let's talk
about the chairs wall I thought we'dstart with the Muntipuccian Brutzo, since that's
what the chairs has made with,right, So let's start with the elephant,
the big, the biggie, theMontepulciano de Bruzzo, which is the
red which has a long history,a lot of misconceptions still and is the
foundation for the chairs Wallow de Bruzzo, which we'll talk about next. Yeah.
(28:22):
Well, in my opinion, Imean, Bruzzo is uh, it's
like a Mustang, So it's Imean, it's um. It's when I
think, when I think muti Bruzzo, I imagine a power and very very
(28:44):
powerful, powerful grape and therefore powerfulwine. So um, it's very It's
very hard from my side to delivermy style of Montepucciano, which is more
um, which is must based ondrinkability, acidity and elegance. So and
(29:08):
that's why I mean there was amisconception about this great because it's always it
has been always used as a blendto reinforce weak wines from different areas of
Italy and Europe as well. Soit's almost the same story of Tregiano.
(29:32):
Many years of the bulk wine,low prices, bad images on the markets,
and it's only the last twenty twentyfive years that I mean again iconic
wine makers and one ways we're ableto establish a new idea of as one
of the candidate to produce I mean, for sure one of the best wine
(29:57):
in Europe. I love the Colt. He calls it the Mustang because you
know, it's like strong heard anddrive it fast and think it drinking fast.
And in the United States it wasit's less. It's an inexpensive wine
in the United States, and probablylet a few people are unaware of its
(30:18):
potential because as you said, itwas, like you said with Trepiano,
bulk wine, which is like alot of Italy. You know, for
a long time, Italian wine producesneeded to make money and they need to
just sell wine, so they wentbulk versus quality. And then there's huge
shift started happening about twenty years agoto go focus on quality and lower yields
(30:40):
to do finer wines. It's it'sall a philosophical approach to business, right
exactly. It's all about your philosophicapproach, How would you compare? I
always like doing this because I youknow, again, this is a podcast,
so I try to help our listenersvisualize or think in a tactile since
the way, how would you cancompair or what great would you compare tribiano
(31:03):
job rutzo too if someone was thinking, I'd like to try it. But
what is it like? What isit compared to? Wow, that's a
very difficult, it is, butthat's how a lot of Americans think.
Francescos Yeah, yeah, well,I mean tribuano. What can be tribiano?
(31:26):
If is a mustang, tribuanal couldbe? I would say a dolphin
because I mean it reminds me freshness, acidity, drink ability, smoothness,
and also elegance. So if youwant to continue using this animal symbolism,
(31:52):
I think that dolphin can really fitinto my idea of tribiano. Well,
we can't it often, but Iget the idea. But in terms of
a grape on the spot. Butin terms of grapes, I mean,
it's the magic of the wine isthe fact that every grape I mean tastes
(32:15):
different. So it's it's very almostimpossible to compare tribuana to any other trape
of the world. There are somegenetical similarities to the uniblanc in France.
Uh and yeah, but if youtake if we think about flavors, nest
(32:39):
one of the best descript or ifthere is the green almond. But again,
just think about very drinkable yet elegantwine and I mean taste it.
That's the best way. What aboutmultiple I mean, it's it's read through,
(33:04):
it's it's wild berries. And incredibly, even though I don't make any
usage of wooden caste, at acertain point of its life, my multiple
channels start delivering like chocolate and coffeean aults that I love totally. When
(33:27):
I tasted and I got a lotof earthy Brandley BlackBerry um herbal notes.
You said, you know, sometimesit's you think about when you taste wine.
You think about where the grapes aregrown, and the mountains and the
forests and the trees and the foliage, and it all kind of builds into
the character the ter wine. Yeah, yeah, that's true. So let's
(33:49):
talk about the chair as wallow winethat uh huh. We don't get a
lot of in the United States becauseit's a rose first of all, but
most of the rose that comes intothis country is is much lighter in color,
dry acidity, etcetera, etcetera.So it's a style that you make
in the brutso the chair as wellathat we really don't get a lot of.
But it was just delicious and it'sa very gastronomic wine in my opinion.
(34:13):
So let's talking about it, andit's unique to Bruto Chasa Bruto is
a d ocg it's a duc yesexactly. So yeah, it's I mean,
I must admit that I'm I'm agreat fan of btso it's probably the
my best preferred wine. So it'salso and it's also because I mean it
(34:36):
was for us the most difficult wineto produce in Amphora because it was so
sensitive to the oxygen and it wasso hard to find the right balance during
the during the wine making, butalso a hard job. We had to
work hardly in the beineer to getthe perfect maduration time. And that's why
(35:01):
I mean, I love him.And it's also the wine that I always
say that it's the wine that expressthe real, uh, the real soul
of a Brutso because it's a simplewine, it could be rustic some some
(35:22):
way, but I mean with alot of passion, with a great heart
and um and very gastronomic. Imean, I just love him with everything
we produce in a Bruteso. Andit's and it's also I always say that
it's the wine that the best,that the express our traditions and our history,
(35:47):
because when when when it comes tothe cuisine, we have three major
culture within our region, we haveI mean the cuisine from the sea,
sine, from the hill and fromthe mountain, from the mountains, sorry,
and is the only one fitting perfectlythis tree different cuisine and that's why
(36:16):
it's it's so magic and that's whywe love him. We love it here
in a Brutso Unfortunately it's so um. I mean, I think that the
ninety percent of the US see thatwe produce is sold within the region.
But it's a huge pity because againreally match with a lot of different cuisine
(36:40):
from all over the world. Well, we fell all over that. We
did a masterclass. We did dothat. Yeah, there were it was
interesting and I think you agree,David. You know the chouts is a
deeper, deeper colored rose. Ithink you do your masceration for six hours
a crack with I'm wrong, exactlyright, and uh, but the range
(37:07):
was very different. They were different, huge different flavors, much like other
styles of rose. And if there'sa rose for everybody, what do you
feel the ideal quintessential cherosuola to brutzo, What would the ideal characteristics be like
if he were a wine director talkingto a customer or someone's trying to sell
(37:27):
it to someone who it's not familiarwith it. Yeah, I would definitely
say versatility. So again, itsversatility when it comes to one food pairing
is incomparable. Well, it's certainlya wine that you know, can take
you through a meal. I don'tknow if I would hang out drink is
(37:51):
sipping on the at the beach asmuch as I would with a really great
piece of meat or chicken or afish. You know what, we do
need to a shout out about thecuisine of a brute, So we went
to the triboci restaurants. Yeah,yeah, why don't you? Because you
mentioned cuisine and pairing, this isa great segue about some of the unique
(38:16):
cuisines of a brute. So let'sstart with the tribocci and what those are.
Well, trabocci. I'm sure youyou tasted the fish soup with the
tomato sauce, with the different kindof fishes that you can fish from a
(38:39):
trabocco, which is a very oldsystem of fishing. It's called paranza.
So they have these huge nets thatthey go under water and then they just
hang it up and take i meanall the all the fishes that they have
been trupid by the this huge net. So yeah, fish fish soup,
(39:06):
for example, is one of thebest food bearing for me. So when
you go to these they're old fishermenprocessing huts, I guess they're really huts
facilities. They look like somebody describedthem as they look like spiders standing in
the water. Yeah. Yeah,yeah, and you cross. So,
(39:30):
I mean they're very rustic. Whenwe dined at one, the water was
just below us and the facilities werea long way away, and the food
just kept coming out and coming outand coming out, and it was really
interesting. Yeah, it's It's oneof the places where I always bring i
(39:51):
mean my imporders or clients from fromfrom from especially from from US and also
from other nations that I mean,they often come to visit us and they
just I mean love, the troublicof style and and the yeah, the
life. This is a surprise,isn't it. Now? Speaking of coming
(40:15):
there, you took us to showus. You're clamping, your two glamping
little cabins. Talk to us aboutthe experience. Yeah, it was another
dream, a dream into the dream, a dream and a dream. Or
three years ago, we were justbored by the COVID period. We were
(40:40):
locked in our house and together withmy wife Michaela, we started thinking about
the first thing we will do afterthe COVID and we start dreaming about visiting
i mean super cool countries and dosome outside life and camping. And we
(41:04):
start watching i mean following like Instagramaccounts of this super cool and super Nordic
designed cabins that are that we mostlyhave in the Nordic countries in Europe,
and we said, wow, Imean, we have a good spot,
we have a great nature whether wemake these I mean in our state,
(41:28):
in our property, and so westarted I mean it was almost like them
for us. I mean we fellwe fell in love with something and we
try to apply to our and wetry to do that in our in our
property, and it's working. Weare so happy. Of course, it's
so demanding because I mean, hostingpeople is uh, it's a kind of
(41:53):
a mission. So you have trulybelieve in that. In they had the
value of hosting people and welcome peoplein your in your house. And we
really do our best. The cabinsare super comfortable with the air conditioning and
outstanding view on the valley. Comeback soon and spend a few nights in
(42:17):
our cabin. Oh, they reallyare out there. I mean again,
as you said, sometimes the mostamazing things you take a lot more distance
and effort to get to. Anddefinitely Trelle is an example. How would
people go about finding your winery andthe glamping experience? How, yeah,
do you work with a book companyor you just go your website? Yes,
(42:40):
yes, exactly through our website orbooking or airbnb. We are most
on all the European platform for booking. But of course, I mean we
have our website www. Dot agriculturedot com and you can just slug into
(43:04):
and you find all the there's alsothe virtual tour of the cabins, so
you can step inside and see thefar nitures and the view. And we
went on. We actually took alittle two of those glamping cabins too.
They're kind of they're kind of likeSafari tents and really just well it's at
they're cabins. No, I knowthat, but they're really really nice.
(43:27):
I mean they're well appointed. Imean there's and let me just say air
conditioning. Air conditioning is a rarityand you're so that's like a big bonus.
And hair dryer. So it hasall the modern conveniences that one would
want a need. But you're stillway out there and the views are amazing.
There's olive groves, there's fines,there are these calockys uh and valleys
(43:51):
and hills. It's quite quite spectacular. We have two final questions we'd like
to ask you. First of all, who do you most admire in this
industry and why? I mean,you're self taught, so it's always interesting
(44:13):
to you know, you interview alot of people that apprentice here and there,
and they're born in a wine familyeset cetera. Being self taught and
an entrepreneur, it's interesting to saywho you admire and why. M hmm.
Well, there are many people thatI admire because I'm very humiles,
so I I mean, I knowwhat my limits are and they can easily
(44:36):
recognized. A love of my colleagues. I'll give you a smart as where
I must admire im areas in Europethey were able to really change the image
of their wines and their terre.For example, I'll give you the sample
(44:58):
of Bourgeolis or or Juha. Sothey were really able to change the common
sense and all the prejudices about theirwines. And they did it like in
twenty years or even less. Andthis is what I really wish for my
region. It would be great tobe able to make what they've done.
(45:23):
Just think about Bourgeois and more gone. I mean their wines are now,
I mean in all the coolest winelist in all over the world, and
they were known or just for Imean the the new wine. I mean
every year with this gamet that noone was attensioning, and they totally revolutionated
(45:47):
I mean the idea. And soI admire, I mean I mostly admire
in these places where they were ableto work a team on the international markets.
That's a really neat comparison and agood one for a Bruiso. I
mean, we were so impressed wecan't wait to go back. I mean
(46:08):
the wineries I have to say wewere kind of we hit the we hit
the lucky draw and when it cameto the wineries we visited, including yours,
and definitely have earmarked a brutso togo back because it is a vast
region. I think a lot ofpeople don't realize because I think it's a
beachside community on the Adriatic. Butthe much sicily as we went, you
(46:32):
go into that mountainous area of eacharea and you're blown away by the style
and quality of the wines produced,because there's something about mountain wines that just
screamed, hear wine, all thattension and dealing with the different elements of
weather that those elements can create someamazing wines and soils. Right, Definitely,
(46:54):
definitely. I mean I love myregion and I always by everybody to
come and visit us. I meanit's it's a great place still still to
discover, so a little adventurers,great nature, great too, great people.
Uh, I mean truly spiritual placewhere you can recover and and at
(47:22):
the same time I mean get Imean the best out from from our from
our land. We have the sea, we have mountains, we we can
we can ski in forty five minutesfrom Pescata. From the airport, in
forty five minutes you can go upon the mountain and uh and reach the
(47:43):
first ski resorts. We have beautifulsea, fantastic hills. So we are
pretty complete and we are still pleasedand so happy when people from outside come
and visit us, So please dowell. We plan to come back again
and we encourage our listeners to dothe same again. We have been speaking
(48:07):
with Francesco Cirelli, who's will werepresents the new image of Abruzzo, the
dynamic energy, the commitment to thesoil and the earth and minimal intervention and
bringing out the true Tarawan character ofsome wines that are very native to this
area. You've got the Montepulciano daBruzzo, You've got Trepiano de Bruzzo,
(48:30):
You've got the Pepperino and of courseCerasuola de Bruzzo. These are very unique
to the region and definitely worth seekingout when you dine out or go to
your retail. Ask. You know, I always say to people, ask,
ask and you'll get Thank you forjoining us. We just want to
again give your website, Agricola CirelliCI R E l l I dot com.
(48:58):
Thank you for joining us on theConnected Table. Thank you Melanie,
thank you David, and thank youfor your to all your listeners our pleasure,
and as usual, we hope thatyou enjoyed this. We hope we've
transported you somewhere new to discover,because we want you to stay insatiably curious
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