September 25, 2024 • 49 mins
A 2023 Mintel survey revealed nearly 4 in 10 U.S. consumers embrace a sober- curious lifestyle. So, it makes sense for restaurant and bars to provide alcohol-free cocktails on menus. It's much like creating vegetarian options on a dinner menu. Enter Hilary Sheinbaum, journalist and founder of Going Dry. Sober-curious since 2017, Hilary advises restaurants and bars on how to create alcohol-free menu offerings. She is author of "Going Dry: A Practical Guide to Drinking Less and Living More."
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The Connected Table is broadcast live Wednesdays at 2PM ET and Music on W4CY Radio (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com).
The Connected Table Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-connected-table-live--1277037/support.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The topics and opinions expressed and the following show are
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(00:21):
W FOURCY Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Welcome to the Connected Table Live. We're your hosts, Melanie
Young and David Ransom. You're insatiably curious culinary couple. We
enjoy traveling the world and meeting the dynamic people who
work front and center and behind the scenes in wine, food, spirits,
and hospitality, publishing and education to share their stories with you.
(01:03):
We like to keep on top of what's happening, what
people are eating and drinking, trends and movements, and we're
really interested in today's topic. It's one we've not tackled
yet on this show. We recently attended Tales of the
Cockdiale New Orleans, which is a giant conviviingum of the
top leaders in spirits and bar industry, and it's a
great place to learn about new trends, products and developments.
(01:26):
I went with the interest in learning more about the
zero proof or no alcohol development and movement that is
so important right now and a big topic of conversation.
I attended a seminar called from Zero to Hero and
one of the panelists is joining us today. She is
a journalist named Hillary Sinbaum, and she's the founder of
(01:49):
going Dry dot co and the author of the Dry Challenge,
How to Lose the Booze for Dry January, so bro
October and any other alcohol free Month, and a follow
up a book called Going Dry, a workbook, a practical
guide to drinking less and living more. Hillary will tell
her tell us about her sober Curious experience, but she
(02:10):
has been published in many leading outlets, including The New
York Times, The Wall Street Journal, Bloomberg, Well and Good,
and several other top tier outlets. We think this is
an interesting topic and we think that Hillary has a
very FASc ending story. So we welcome you, Hillary Shinbaum
to the Connected Table Live.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Thank you for having me. That was such a lovely intro.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Thank you so Hillary. We like to always start with
the backstory. We know you grew up in South Florida.
Tell us about your early interest in your childhood and
growing up and was alcohol consumption part of your family lifestyle.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
It's funny, not really.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
I grew up in South Florida, playing a lot of sports,
spending a lot of time in the sun without sunscreen,
which I do not recommend. These days, I'm a little
bit more careful about that. But you know, I have
three younger brothers, and we all were very active individuals.
(03:13):
Our dad would have you know, a beer here and there,
like at a ball game, you know, at dinner.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Our mom doesn't really drink. But all four of.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
Us actually went to the University of Florida, and I
also went to the Florida State University, and both schools
have you know, a pretty interesting like party element to them.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
You know.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
I think Florida State at the time was definitely a
little bit more into going out and drinking and you know,
those big parties. But I think Florida as a whole,
because it's so sunny year round, there's never a time
when people aren't drinking cocktails by the pool.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
You know, we live in New Orleans. It seems like
everybody has a cocktail in hand, you.
Speaker 5 (04:04):
Get it, only we get to walk down the street
with the.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Yeah yeah true. So did you always wanted to be
in journalism or did you have other career expectations and
desires or did you study journalism?
Speaker 3 (04:18):
You know, it's funny.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
I ever since I was really young, I always wanted
to write a book. I truly thought that I was going.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
To grow up and become a novelist.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
And I really got into a lot of like celebrity
blogs and celebrity culture at a pretty young age, like
in high school. And so my dream in high school
was really to become the editor in chief of teen
People or People magazine, and that.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Really lasted quite a bit.
Speaker 4 (04:50):
So when I actually went to college, I really wanted
to study journalism, and at Florida State there isn't a
journalism program, so I still studied public relations, and even
when I transferred, I stayed a public relations major at
the University of Florida because I had already accumulated so
many credits. But at the same time I was picking
(05:12):
journalism classes, I was writing for, you know, both school newspapers,
and I really just truly enjoyed interviewing people and learning
something new on a regular basis. So eventually I did
get to, you know, reach that dream of interviewing celebrities
once I moved to New York, and certainly just right
(05:34):
out of college, one of my first big I don't
know if it's a big break, but one of my
first big interviews was with the cast of the Jersey Shore,
if you remember them, and that was for US Weekly magazine.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Right out of college.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
So I've definitely been consistent in the fact that I've
always wanted to be a writer and I wanted to
be part of, you know, the entertainment industry.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
And although I'm not.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
Really as connected as I used to be in that
red carpet you know, movie, TV, music spear, I think
that it's it was definitely like.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
A cool part of my twenties. And yeah, that has
remained consistent.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
I've always wanted to write and you know, be a
communicator in that regard.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
I wonder if you knew my cousin, Jeffrey Salernum, who
was a red carp.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
I did, Oh my gosh, yes, yeah, and so is
your cousin as well.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Yeah, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
He was such a lovely person. I would see him
on the red carpet so many times, and he is
he is truly missed.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
He is who was a hard worker. And Hunt is too.
Hunt's prolific. You know your website, Hillarysheinbaum dot com is
shows how prolific you are. You've got quite the portfolio
for our listeners. Hillary covers a wide range of topics,
which is I think the only way to make any
money in journalism these days, from beveridge to food, to travel,
to fitness, fashion, love and beauty. And kudos to you
(07:02):
because it is very hard to be a sustainable working
journalist right now.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Yeah, you know, I think that it's changed so much.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
Certainly there was the heyday of magazines and obviously with
the dot coms now and a lot of social media,
people just get their news in different ways, and so
it is. It can be very difficult, it can be challenged,
and I think that as media has evolved, the writers
(07:35):
have to do the same. So yeah, I definitely cover
a lot of different topics these days. I cover a
lot of just lifestyle trends and wellness and obviously I
am part of the non alcoholic beverage industry. But I
don't write about non alcoholic beverage brands themselves because I
(07:56):
kind of I try to keep it church and state.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (08:02):
So in twenty seventeen, you wrote that you decided to
go dry for seventy days to learn more about yourself
and meditation. Things like that tell us the backstory of
going dry with the sober Curious God.
Speaker 4 (08:17):
So yeah, So when the first time that I decided
to go dry, I was living in New York City.
I was a red carpet reporter. It was twenty sixteen,
and I used to go to these amazing events and
after parties, and I would commonly bring a friend with me.
(08:40):
A lot of the times I would bring my friend Alejandro,
and he went out you know, all the time anyway,
But I he and I got dinner at the end
of the year, and he brought up this thing called
dry January, which I thought was kind of silly because
I was, you know, going out every night for work,
(09:03):
and I was also freelancing and covering topics of food
and beverage, and the majority of my articles were about alcohol.
And I was writing for USA Today and Eater and Forbes, and.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
You know, am New York and.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
I just didn't think that dry January was something that
was possible for me, given my work life and also
my social life, because I was in New York in
my twenties and I was single, and you know, with dating,
every first date involves going for drinks. So anyway, I
just kind of brushed it off, and a week later,
(09:39):
on New Year's Eve, I texted my friend while I
was drinking, and I suggested that we make a bet
to see who could go the month of.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
January without booze.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
And I ended up winning and Alejandro ended up losing,
and he had to buy me dinner. I got to
pick the place. It was anywhere in New York, and
so I picked a Michielein star restaurant called Momufukuko, which
sadly closed recently. But you know, during that thirty one
(10:11):
day period, I it was just life changing, as cliche
as that sounds, but I had better sleep, I had
better mental clarity, I was less anxious, my skin had improved,
and I was certainly saving a lot of money not
spending them on you know, New York priced cocktails. So
that's how all of this really started for me. In
(10:35):
January twenty seventeen, and a couple of years later, I
wrote a book called Dry Challenge that came out in
late twenty twenty, and from there, I've just seen so
many people kind of changed their drinking lifestyle habits. And
(10:55):
I will say that neither of my books are for
people who are seeking recovery program. They were really four
social drinkers who are looking to reevaluate their relationship with
alcohol or maybe you know, peel back a bit, just
see kind of what's out there. But I am certainly
not a medical doctor, and none of this is medical advice.
(11:16):
But yeah, that's really how it started, and it's just
kind of continued and snowballed from there.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Well, the timing is interesting because in twenty twenty, in
the height of the pandemic, a lot of people, you know,
because people were quarantined at home, the alcohol business was booming.
Our little neighborhood wine shop, Kenny said it was like
Christmas every day at his wine sir, because everybody was
drinking more and staying at home. And I think, you know,
(11:43):
from my perspective looking at it, all of it now,
everybody got very into wine. Everybody's doing virtual wine and
spirits and cocktail. But the end result is that come
twenty twenty two, I'll say, everybody realized that they'd give
they serve. I have COVID nineteen, but they gained the
COVID nineteen and a lot of us felt fat, lobby, pasty,
(12:08):
and sluggish. And unfortunately, some people did have a completely
different relationship with alcohol and some didn't. But I think
everybody kind of did a hard reset. I know a
lot of people who've shared that with me. And you
heard more people talking about wanting to take time off
from consuming. What is your thoughts on that in terms
(12:32):
of the timing and the evolution of what was cold
And I had never even heard the term sober curious
until Brad Pitt said it.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
Yeah, it's you know, I think that during COVID, as
you said, a lot of people found themselves drinking more
than they had before. Certainly, cocktail hour was rolling around
at earlier and earlier hours.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
There was no separation between.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
Work and being home, and so I think that people
were often using alcohol to divide that time. And I
know that people were really overserved, you know, overserving themselves,
I should say.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
So. I think that coming.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
Out of the pandemic, I think that people were looking
to jump back into socializing, but they were also realizing that,
as you said, you know, maybe their habits had gone
too far for their comfort, and they were looking to
take more efforts to be a little bit healthier or
(13:36):
a little bit more wellness focused.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Curious at what point. One of the reasons that we
were introduced to you is that you spoke at Tales
of the Cocktail, which also had a hard reset, uh,
and realized, because that you know, you know, there's that
TV term jump the shark where things just kind of
go this way, the two point and tails had to
have a hard reset as well and really step back
(14:05):
and address the growing topic of mental health and striking
balance in the industry. A lot of people opened up
that they were having difficulties with it, and fortunately knowing
everyone now feels comfortable talking about it and the conversation
is wide open. One of the interesting developments in this
(14:26):
from my perspective, besides that people are open about it
and addressing it and it's accepted and people know where
to seek help, is that the hospitality industry has taken
notice and is creating ways to offer better options for
those who choose to abstain or who are unable to
consume alcohol, which is where you started offering some consulting work.
(14:49):
So talk to us about how that all evolved.
Speaker 4 (14:52):
Yeah, definitely, And I love that, Like people are so
much more open about their mental health and it's I
think it's only bettered the community. But yeah, I think
that for me personally, when I started doing drid January,
and this was you know, eight plus years ago, there
(15:14):
weren't options for me on any menus. There were some
kind of like in the no brands that were popular
that I could buy online after doing you know, an
immense amount of research, But if I wanted to order
a non alcoholic cocktail, I would have to go to
the bartender specifically ask that for them to make it
(15:35):
for me. Sometimes I would ask to suggest ingredients and
it wasn't just as simple as pointing to something on
the menu and saying like, I will have one of those.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
And so I realized that pretty.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
Quickly, and now I work with bars and restaurants and
hotels to curate non alcoholic menus. So one of the
hotels that I've partnered with most recently is the Four
Seasons in Jackson Hole, and now they have non alcoholic
white wines that were recently added to their menu by
(16:11):
Geeson zero percent, and they're so good, they're absolutely delicious.
But I think the important part of that is being
able to, you know, open up that menu at their
Ascent Lounge and say I want this, and it's on
you know, its own page with a variety of non
alcoholic cocktails. And so if you're you know, even if
(16:34):
you are drinking wine or you're drinking a cocktail, you
can go every other you know, glass with the alcoholic
version first a non alcoholic version.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
And yeah, I just think.
Speaker 4 (16:47):
It's it's so easy when you're in places like you know,
Jackson Hole to have a dry quote unquote dry tripping
experience where alcohol might not be even necessary. But I
definitely think it's important to work with hotels because I
find that a lot of people see vacation and travel
(17:07):
as an opportunity to drink because they're not on the clock,
they don't have to necessarily abide by the same schedules
or you know, you see people drinking in the airport
at like seven am all the time. And yeah, I
just think it's important for people to be able to
point to something on the menu and say wow, that
sounds delicious, instead of having to think of it for themselves.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
One of the things that was a challenge that the
panelists brought up with the zero to Hero is how
to achieve that oo mommy in balance with a cocktail.
We've tasted many and we tasted details and also had
sample sent to us of non alcoholic option beverages from
(17:54):
wine to pre made cocktails to I guess mixers actually
distilled spirits and the still spirits and fairly consistently, and
I feel I think we both agree it's fairly still
an evolving industry. We haven't found tons that we love.
We found a few things we do. We taste with
(18:15):
an open mind with everything, but that was a big
discussion how to make the taste and the texture and
balance work. What are some ways that you advise your clients.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
You know, it really depends on what they already have
on their menu and the ingredients that.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
They're already serving.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
I've found and I do experimenting on my own and
more recently this might sound a little bit weird, but
I think that if you can pull off having seaweed
as a garnish, I think keeping your It's not that
you want to like drink salt water by any means,
but I think that if you can incorporate, you know,
(18:58):
a couple of ingredients that are well balanced, not too sweet,
they might have like a tiny bit of sweetness. But
I really think that there's a lot that you can
do with these non alcoholic spirits, because a lot of
them are you know, pretty odorless. They're pretty it depends actually,
(19:20):
but like one of them. There's a brand that I
really like. It's called flu Air, and they make non
alcoholic spirits where they have like all different kinds of things.
They have a medzical, they have a raspberry gin. Obviously
not for a UMMMI drink, But I think that there
are ways that you can really, you know, use what's
(19:44):
in your kitchen and use these spirits and not stick
to maybe like the traditional cocktails that you and I
are used to seeing on every men, you like a
margarita or even mohidos or things of that nature.
Speaker 5 (19:58):
You know, Melanie, we tasted a few spirits like that
at tails like Cocktail this year's non alcoholic. I thought
that they've really come a long way in the last
few years. Yeah, and really are starting to the ingredients
that you can really make great cocktails with.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Oh surprised, I was. We went to a zero proof lounge,
Napoleon House, and I was taken by and we had
Lynette Marero on the show a couple weeks ago. I
was taken by her cocktail with applos she's working on.
I thought that was an exceptional drink that she made
in a terrific product. And obviously we're not paid by anybody.
(20:38):
We once had in the beginning. Seedlip, the founder of Seedlip,
was on our show because we liked the product. I
was just coming off of treatment for breast cancer and
got had gone to my first tee totaling tails and
wanted to learn more about healthy options. This is something
that's been a personal interest to me. I've written about
session cocktails for seven fifty daily because I do want
(20:59):
to see people have options. I think a lot of
people don't realize that it's that The reason that people
cannot drink or choose not to drink is highly personal,
but it ranges for so many reasons. Whether you're pregnant,
you're under treatment for religious purposes, for just you need
to pull back for your health and wellness. There's so
many reasons, and I don't think people realize that and
(21:22):
are sensitive to that, because there's a large population of
people that just do not drink for all those reasons.
And it was always frustrating Hillary and David to go
and just see diet coke is my option.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
And you know, sometimes people don't have a reason at
all that they don't drink. Maybe some people don't like
the taste of alcohol. I also think that there are
so many, as you were saying, so many options. One
of the websites that I love.
Speaker 4 (21:49):
Is called betterads dot Com and they have a lot
of an array of different products and a lot of selection.
I think that there's also been an uptick in functional beverages.
The brands that I've recently discovered is called Dwellmo do
(22:09):
Apostrophe m and it has seventeen functional ingredients, so and
they're all you know, to benefit your health. Whereas, like,
I think that sometimes people when you're drinking, even if
you're a healthy person who exercises, who goes to sleep
at a reasonable hour, you know, who takes care of themselves.
(22:29):
I think that often we can experience hangovers or not
feeling our best. And I think it's just really cool
that there are these brands now that only enhance those
you know, wellness functions.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Now, there was a lot of discussion about with how
many options should be on a menu, the pricing, what
they should be referred to. What are your thoughts on
that if you were advising a restaurant, bar, hotel.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
So I when I'm advising a venue, I want to
be as collaborative as possible. So for example, a lot
of people don't like the name mocktail because they think
that it's mocking, you know, a creative drink that doesn't
(23:21):
have alcohol. And my viewpoint is, if you can fit
the words non alcoholic cocktail on your menu or zero proof,
if it is you know, zero point zero ABV and
that's the language that you want to use, I think
that's great.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
But if you only have so many characters on your
menu that you want to use the word mocktail, I
think that's fine, and I think that people understand what
that word means.
Speaker 4 (23:47):
I don't think it's like an offensive term. My viewpoint
on this may change, but that's how I currently feel,
and I think it's always important to have, you know,
a non alcoholic beer, a non alcoholic.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
Wine, and maybe a few different non alcoholic cocktails. If
you can make the cocktails that are already on your
menu not an alcoholic, I think more power to you.
But I think it is important.
Speaker 4 (24:14):
To at least have three options that people can choose
from that are not diet code.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Yeah, you know, I think that. I think you're right
about that. I've looked at me and they're they're all
the same price. So listeners, don't think you're going to
get a deal, right well, yeah, right, to.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
Touch on that, I think you know people it It
might not be so like obvious or a parent, but obviously,
you know, if it takes the same amount of time
for the bartender to craft a non alcoholic cocktail as
an alcoholic one, it's still you know, their time and
their craft. I also think that in terms of non
(24:54):
alcoholic wines and non alcoholic beers, those products have to
go through in addition process that makes it even more expensive,
and obviously sometimes that price is reflected on the consumer unfortunately,
but it's it's all because it's more costly or it's
(25:15):
the same costs. It's not I don't think anyone's trying to, like,
you know, pull any wool over people's eyes and say like, Okay,
we're gonna make this more expensive. But I do I
have heard from people that you know, they're they're more
respectful towards these non alcoholic beverages when they do have
a higher price point.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
That's an interesting point, it is.
Speaker 5 (25:38):
Yeah, because you know, when we were going through Tails
of the Cocktail and Taste, and we tasted a significant
number of non non alcoholic spirits sorry, and you know
they're all coming out at thirty to thirty five even
forty dollars a bottle, and so that compares to a
bottle of vodkorche and you know, of the same caliber.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Yeah, and the Cocktails of Us say, so.
Speaker 5 (25:59):
You know, they a lot of effort into making that product. Obviously,
in a lot of ways they have to put even
more effort into it because it's because they have to
come up with something that's gonna really taste like you're
not missing the alcohol totally.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, like I said, I think there's
there's a lot of products out there, some of them
are too sweet for us or metallic. I think it's
like with a really good bottle of wine, you do
get what you pay for uh and and it is
all in and and the ingredients and the way the
(26:34):
product is made. Much like much like wine, your books
do discuss and help people address being sober curious. It
is difficult for some people. It's a discipline, much like
health and wellness, and you write extensively on that topic.
I mean, like anything that is basically a process that
(26:55):
to manage to take care of yourself takes a lot
of efforts. Do you feel that, and I know that
you listen all the months. Do you feel the dry January,
Sober October and other alcohol free months are helping or
are they more promotional? Because I know that, And before
we went on, we talked about the fact that there's
(27:17):
some grumbling in the wine world about Sober October being
the worst timing ever and people are trying to sell
more products before the holidays. What are your thoughts on that.
Speaker 4 (27:28):
Yeah, I think that it can be a very helpful
tool for people who are looking to cut back. I
think for me personally, after you know, doing my first
dry January and my second dry January and you know,
starting to be just so aware of what I was
consuming was really helpful and it has influenced me to
(27:51):
cut back more and more. So I think it just
really depends on your goals. I understand that, you know,
people in the wine and spirits industries who are obviously
running businesses would find you know, sober October.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
Or dry January to be a bit frustrating.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
But with that, I think that for people who are
in those industries, I think seeing and realizing that their
customer is changing is really important too. And you know,
we've seen these changes occur within brands like Diagio, where
they've you know, brought in other brands like seed lip Right,
(28:32):
the non alcoholic spirits brand. We've seen it in beers
like Heineken and Corona, and we've you know, definitely seen
it in wines like Geeseen and Freshanet and Minetto. So
I don't think that it's saying like you should never
drink wine. I think it's just more of opening up
(28:55):
people's eyes to other versions of the products. So you
can still drink wine, just might not have alcohol in it.
And you know, if your goals are just to cut back,
then you know you can continue drinking after your dry months.
I think that you'll just be mindful of what you're
(29:17):
consuming moving forward if you weren't already.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
What's interesting. It's much like you know, you know Dave
and I, you know, we drink for a living wine
and we'll have days where we'll just say we're not
we're going to take a break. We have break days.
So you got to balance it. You can't, you know.
Pete Wells, God bless him. He reviewed restaurants for what
twelve years? Thirteen years and he ended up with fatty
liver and health issues. At some point. You have to
(29:44):
create balance and moderation just for your your overall well being.
Speaker 4 (29:49):
Yes, absolutely, I think it's just again, it really depends
on your lifestyle, your career, your goals, like how you're
feeling mentally, emotionally, physically. I think that there are just
so many elements of again, like why people decide to take.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
A night off or a week off, or a month
off or a year or longer.
Speaker 4 (30:15):
You know. And I also always say to people like
because giving up alcohol is not an easy feat, even
if it's four thirty one days, like alcohol is everywhere.
It's part of celebrating birthdays, it's part of dating, it's
part of mourning, it's part of you know, you have
like you have a terrible day, you lose your job,
(30:36):
the first thing that people turn to is drinking. And
it's part of our culture, right, and a lot of
people's cultural backgrounds. So I think that it seems and
it can be a very heavy undertaking.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
But I also always say.
Speaker 4 (30:55):
That if you have a drink in the middle of
your dry month or the beginning or the end or
whatever it is, or you have a night of drinking,
that's okay too, Like it's your month and you're allowed
to do it the way that you please.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
My suggestion is just.
Speaker 4 (31:09):
You know, getting right back to it and finishing off
your challenge or your month in a strong way and
continuing to you know, abstain. But it I think that
like there's there's been I think a lot of conversation
about dry months putting too much pressure, right, it has
(31:31):
to be all or nothing, and I think that you.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
Should aim for like one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (31:36):
But if you if you don't go the entire month
without a sip of alcohol, like if you do have
a drink, like, that's okay too. It's really the point
is to see how your life changes with the in
the absence of alcohol, if it does at all, and
maybe it doesn't. Maybe you know, you still sleep the same,
Maybe you don't lose any weight, maybe.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
You don't save any money.
Speaker 4 (32:01):
I don't know, but I can say that, you know,
there there are so many big changes and benefits that
can come from abstaining for just a short period of time,
So you might as well just like try it. The
time is going to pass anyway.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
Do you remember when you didn't drink for that period
of time. Yeah, well, I was also sick.
Speaker 5 (32:22):
It was in the hospital for three weeks.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
He lost like twenty five pounds.
Speaker 5 (32:25):
No, I lost fifty pounds.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
Fifty pounds, a lot of it. You weren't drinking, No,
but I couldn't.
Speaker 5 (32:30):
I didn't drink for like three months.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
It was amazing.
Speaker 5 (32:32):
And I also just I was adamant about only healthy
things going in my body and no soult. Yeah, I
couldn't drink, and I was, you know, I was. I
was in pretty rough shape. But well that's another story.
But yeah, I lost a lot of weight and I
and I gained a middle of it back, but but
not but nowhere near what I was.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
It was amazing. I was actually glad for that because
you look better and you're healthier as a result of it.
And again, you know, I'm going to underst score in
the hand about today. It's about balance. This isn't about
anti or pro I was writing someone on LinkedIn, and
it's not about anti alcohol, pro alcohol, neo bridge, prohibition
or all these terms being floated around. It's about we
(33:13):
all need to have a balance for what's best for
us and what we choose to do with our life.
It's similar to when I remember, you know, if you're
a vegetarian and then you go out and everybody's eating meat,
there were never any options for you other than three
measley pieces of vegetable on a plate. I'm so thrilled
now that when I go out there are really great
(33:34):
vegetarian options on a menu. And in the same way,
I'm really excited that when I go out and see
a bar menu or why menu, there's great alcohol free
options as well. I equate it that way.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4 (33:48):
I think it's just like being able to choose is important.
And again, like even if you you know you're not
a vegetor and like you said, sometimes you just aren't
in the mood for eating meat, that's okay, no judgement.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
Yeah, I agreement.
Speaker 5 (34:03):
More so let's talk about going Dry, which is it's
called Going Dry, a Sober Curious Guide to Drinking Less
and Living More. And you call it a workbook, and
that's exactly what it is. You really want this to be.
You want people to make their own decisions, but you
also want them to document it in this book. And see,
you've really made this book into a workbook where people
(34:23):
chart the territory as they go through it.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Right, So tell us.
Speaker 5 (34:26):
A little bit about it.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (34:27):
So when I wrote my first book, The Dry Challenge,
it was about, you know, how to do a dry
January or a sober October, and it was also it
was also like talking about.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
The benefits of doing so.
Speaker 4 (34:41):
And the workbook Going Dry is really about the reader
and their process. And it has more than seventy different
like prompts and activities that are interactive for the reader.
And it's just supposed to be a very like non
judgmental guide as well. So there is a forward by
(35:05):
Lauren Bostick. She is a podcaster and an entrepreneur and
a New York Times bestseller and.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
The book was also reviewed.
Speaker 4 (35:15):
It has little back cover blurbs that were penned by
Molly Simms and Melissa Wood Tepperberg, who are also people
that I look up to. But the book as a
whole is just really for people to document and to
really figure out like how drinking is making them feel
(35:36):
again in a non judgmental way.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
So I think like for me personally.
Speaker 4 (35:40):
If I now look back on my last dry month,
I might remember some you know, general details.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
Like maybe I didn't go out on.
Speaker 4 (35:51):
A Friday night, or I you know, maybe I got
like eight hours of sleep, you know, consistently for a week,
but I might not remember or those details two, three,
four months later, even a year later. So I think
that having those things written down about like how you're
feeling and what's motivating you is really important so that
(36:13):
you can look back and recall those emotions and those
feelings and really those statistics that you may forget afterwards.
And I think it's motivating to you know, either keep
you going or or hopefully it doesn't discourage you from
doing another dry stint. But I think that, you know,
having those facts in front of you is always helpful.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
Well, it's like food. It's like having a wellness journal
or a food diary when you're dieting. It helps just
kind of those prompts were very helpful. It can be
very hard for some people to choose to make the choice.
May may have gotten very comfortable having their nightly nightcap
or at party or whatever. And you know, David, or
every time we go out to Hawaii, we go to Hawaii,
(36:59):
like every other year vacation, We're like, we're not going
to drink the entire sound we're there. We're going to
be really helpful, right, Yeah, Well it never happens, So
you know, it is what it is. You also have
to forget now blame yourself if you have a slip
up on it. But I think you know what's exciting
about this to me, Hillary, is that the conversation is
(37:20):
out there. Because there was a time where if you
go out and you don't have somebody to drink, somebody
would say why aren't you drinking, which is really a
terrible thing to say, but you know, or you would
be overserved, and there was a peer pressure. I grew
up with it. So I grew up with peer pressure
(37:41):
to drink. And I grew up in a family where
my father was a wine consumer and collector and taught
me about responsibility. And I was always into health and wellness.
So I always, even from my teenagers, had that issue
of why aren't you drinking more? Why aren't you having another?
Or what's wrong with you? And it dogged me a lot,
but fortunately I didn't buckle down to it. But you know,
(38:04):
a few bad times with alcohol, you never want to have,
you know, that feeling again if you over and bibe.
I think the fact that a lot of people can
talk about it and for whatever reason, is important, and
the fact that the industry is responding is very important
because we have to have options for people who are
(38:26):
not are not.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
Drinking yep, absolutely, yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
So tell us what else you're working on and what
inspires you. What do you really enjoy writing about? If
you had free if you had all the freedom in
the world, Hillary, and it wasn't about writing to get
paid and write, you know, what would you love to
write about?
Speaker 3 (38:53):
It's funny.
Speaker 4 (38:53):
I feel very fortunate that a lot of the topics
that I cover these days are things that I.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
Am genuinely interested in.
Speaker 4 (39:02):
I think that a lot of my stories from The
New York Times are things that are they come up
in conversation with friends, and then are they inspire our stories. So,
for example, there was a recent piece that I wrote
about adults that sleep with their childhood stuffed animals and
(39:23):
how it affects their love.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
Lives and.
Speaker 4 (39:28):
Yeah, and that was actually inspired by a friend who
took her stuffed.
Speaker 3 (39:34):
Animal to her honeymoon.
Speaker 4 (39:36):
And I have known this person for, you know, more
than a decade, and it just randomly came up in
conversation earlier this year, and.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
I was shocked because I.
Speaker 4 (39:49):
Was like, wait, how do I not know that you
sleep with the stuffed animal and that you take it everywhere?
But anyway, it ended up becoming a New York Times
piece that I wrote, and it was just fun, you know.
So once she said it, I had to know if
if other adults were still sleeping with their teddy bears
and their stuffed animal dogs and things like that. So yeah,
(40:13):
I think a lot of the stuff that I write
is tied to my own personal interests, not in the
sense of like I'm pushing things on other people, just
like I genuinely care about, you know, wellness and fitness
and health and you know, other lifestyle things.
Speaker 3 (40:37):
Like stuffed animals, I guess.
Speaker 4 (40:38):
But yeah, I think that weddings are fascinating. I've covered
them for years. I think that there's just a true
intersection of you know, tradition and culture and beauty and
food and beverage, and there's so many topics within. It
really goes past the glamorous of you know, walking down
(41:02):
the aisle or all of the decor.
Speaker 3 (41:06):
Yeah, there's there's a lot there. So I yeah, I
think there. I have a lot of interests, but those
those things are usually at the top.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
That inspires me too as we as we go back
and forth on how to expand their portfolio. I think
you just got to touch on stuff that just tweaks
your interests and then just find the right people to
pitch for people who are listening who and we do
have listeners who are writers. You know, what would you
advise on crafting a great pitch? Because you know, we
all know we've all been there where you send out
a pitch and it's like crickets, you know, yeah, what
(41:42):
do you do?
Speaker 4 (41:43):
I think like the first thing is that you just
can't take rejection personally or like ghosting personally, because it's
not personal. But secondly, I think that when you're writing
a pitch, obviously it's very important to do your research
and make sure that the outlet has not covered that
topic before and certainly not recently, and if there's a
(42:07):
newspeg to it, like, why is it important that.
Speaker 3 (42:09):
You're writing about this now? I think that is really important.
Speaker 4 (42:13):
And I also think that it's important to introduce yourself
to the editor and explain to them why you are
the person who should be writing this article. You know,
if you're somebody who is who never drinks and you're
like very interested in non alcoholic beverages, I think you
(42:34):
would probably be a great candidate to do the research.
And you probably already have some background in you know,
products and how alcohol is removed from wine and beer,
and you know, you might know some people who in
the industry.
Speaker 3 (42:50):
Whereas, like, if you're somebody who.
Speaker 4 (42:53):
Maybe doesn't think fondly of non alcoholic beverages, you probably
wouldn't want to pitch because it doesn't you know, it
doesn't sound like it's something that you're maybe interested in, and.
Speaker 3 (43:06):
Maybe you might not know as much as like the
next person.
Speaker 4 (43:12):
But again, I think that's what's interesting about journalism too,
is that it's an opportunity to become the expert in
whatever it is that you're covering.
Speaker 3 (43:20):
So yeah, I hope that's helpful.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
I think it's interesting. You know, we always tell people
because everybody goes, oh, there's no money in wine writing.
If I hear that lament anymore, you know, so my
from where I stand wearing a business hat and tell
you to myself, if there's no money in wine writing,
then expand your repertoire or get a day job. And
right on the side, I mean, I think I've set
that to so many people over time because everybody's boohoo hooing,
(43:47):
and but it's true. You can only save yourself. And
why I'm a big believer as a journalist unless you're
at a very high level like the guy that covers
transported Chris van Cleeve at the CPS. He covers transportation,
expand your repertoire. And I think you've drawn a really
great point, right write what you know or what you're
(44:09):
you're genuinely curious about, curious about. It's important because you
don't have to be an expert in it, but you
are curious about it and you want to learn more,
which is one of my how I do things often
on my other show. Or what just amuses you or
sparks it's just kind of an interesting thing. Uh, and
then you will be able to find more opportunities to
(44:31):
play stories. But you really can't just be a one
hit one topic wonder unless you have a regular like,
you know, not everybody's Eric Asimov or Blake Gray or
somebody like that.
Speaker 4 (44:42):
Totally, I think it's important to I think also when
you expand a little bit on your coverage, it can
open your eyes to not only just becoming like a
better writer, but also other opportunities as well. I mean,
you know, I used to write primarily about wine, beer
and spirits and celebrities, and these days I very rarely
(45:07):
cover celebrities. Sometimes I'll do an interview here or there,
but I really don't write about Booze at all. So
I think, yeah, just being open to new things can
can change the trajectory of your career.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
How important is social media to your craft or your writing?
Do editors if you're trying to work with newers, do
they also look at your social media? Do you find
that having a strong social media following? And don't know
which true I'm not on it right now helps or
does it really matter?
Speaker 3 (45:40):
I think I don't know that.
Speaker 4 (45:43):
If I've gotten jobs as like in journalism based on
my social media I'm not sure. I don't want to
say yes. I don't want to say now. I do
know that when you are pitching a book, it's important
to be engaged on social media because as authors, you
are responsible for writing your book, and obviously if you
(46:04):
have an audience that is connected to you, they will
likely be the ones who are making those purchases and
making your publisher happy. I think that in terms of
like using social media, sometimes I've found story ideas that
way or have noticed trends, So I think it can
(46:28):
be helpful. I think it can also be disrupting, but
it kind of just again depends on your goals and what.
Speaker 3 (46:34):
You're doing with it and how much time you're spending.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
Right, And just just to underscore that your Instagram is
Hillary Rights and why and it is it is important
when you have a book. You know, it's probably reason
I'm still keeping it to have a book. But what
is next on the horizon. Obviously you've got the new book,
what else aster that?
Speaker 4 (46:57):
Yeah, so I'm going to continue work with hotels, bars
and restaurants on their non alcoholic menus. So I'm very
excited about that and throwing events. I have a few
coming up in New York and hopefully.
Speaker 3 (47:13):
I'll be back in Los Angeles soon.
Speaker 4 (47:16):
I'm currently nominated on a panel for south By Southwest
in Austin, so hopefully I'll be in Austin, Texas in.
Speaker 3 (47:26):
March for that panel if we get chosen. But yeah,
there's a lot going on and I'm.
Speaker 4 (47:31):
Really excited to see what happens in the next couple
of months.
Speaker 2 (47:36):
Well, that's very, very exciting. The south By Southwest thing
is interesting. Another friend of mine just wrote that she's
going to be speaking on a panel and food is medicine, Yeah,
which is a topic of interest. We've not been to
south By the Southwest, and we'd like to spend little
more time checking out Austin because it keeps popping up
in our aura these days. But it's very It's been
(47:58):
really great talking to you about your backstory and your
and your approach to carving a topic that I think
sometimes is misunderstood and needs to be understood better for
a variety of reasons. Because some people call it a trend.
I don't consider this a trend at all. I consider
that the it is part and parcel of the mix
(48:21):
that you have when you have a restaurant, a bar,
or a hotel, or a wedding or an event that
you have to think about every guest and what they
may or may not want to consume. Right, absolutely, well,
We've been talking with Hillary Scheinbaum and you can find
her at website by that name, and Hillary whites and
(48:44):
y on Instagram. We raise a zero proof toast to
you and thank you for all you're doing to raise
awareness and write about this topic.
Speaker 3 (48:55):
Same to you. Thank you guys so much. This has
been so much fun.
Speaker 2 (48:59):
It's one wonderful and you've been listening to The Connected
Table Live with Melanie Young and David Ransom. We hope
that you have found this interesting and helpful. And you know,
we always like to say, while they say sober curious,
we like to say, stay insatiably curious, keep your minds open,
keep your palace open, and we hope that you'll share
(49:23):
this show and follow us on the Connected Table. Thank
you very much,
The topics and opinions expressed and the following show are
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be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for choosing
(00:21):
W FOURCY Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Welcome to the Connected Table Live. We're your hosts, Melanie
Young and David Ransom. You're insatiably curious culinary couple. We
enjoy traveling the world and meeting the dynamic people who
work front and center and behind the scenes in wine, food, spirits,
and hospitality, publishing and education to share their stories with you.
(01:03):
We like to keep on top of what's happening, what
people are eating and drinking, trends and movements, and we're
really interested in today's topic. It's one we've not tackled
yet on this show. We recently attended Tales of the
Cockdiale New Orleans, which is a giant conviviingum of the
top leaders in spirits and bar industry, and it's a
great place to learn about new trends, products and developments.
(01:26):
I went with the interest in learning more about the
zero proof or no alcohol development and movement that is
so important right now and a big topic of conversation.
I attended a seminar called from Zero to Hero and
one of the panelists is joining us today. She is
a journalist named Hillary Sinbaum, and she's the founder of
(01:49):
going Dry dot co and the author of the Dry Challenge,
How to Lose the Booze for Dry January, so bro
October and any other alcohol free Month, and a follow
up a book called Going Dry, a workbook, a practical
guide to drinking less and living more. Hillary will tell
her tell us about her sober Curious experience, but she
(02:10):
has been published in many leading outlets, including The New
York Times, The Wall Street Journal, Bloomberg, Well and Good,
and several other top tier outlets. We think this is
an interesting topic and we think that Hillary has a
very FASc ending story. So we welcome you, Hillary Shinbaum
to the Connected Table Live.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Thank you for having me. That was such a lovely intro.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
Thank you so Hillary. We like to always start with
the backstory. We know you grew up in South Florida.
Tell us about your early interest in your childhood and
growing up and was alcohol consumption part of your family lifestyle.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
It's funny, not really.
Speaker 4 (02:52):
I grew up in South Florida, playing a lot of sports,
spending a lot of time in the sun without sunscreen,
which I do not recommend. These days, I'm a little
bit more careful about that. But you know, I have
three younger brothers, and we all were very active individuals.
(03:13):
Our dad would have you know, a beer here and there,
like at a ball game, you know, at dinner.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Our mom doesn't really drink. But all four of.
Speaker 4 (03:23):
Us actually went to the University of Florida, and I
also went to the Florida State University, and both schools
have you know, a pretty interesting like party element to them.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
You know.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
I think Florida State at the time was definitely a
little bit more into going out and drinking and you know,
those big parties. But I think Florida as a whole,
because it's so sunny year round, there's never a time
when people aren't drinking cocktails by the pool.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
You know, we live in New Orleans. It seems like
everybody has a cocktail in hand, you.
Speaker 5 (04:04):
Get it, only we get to walk down the street
with the.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Yeah yeah true. So did you always wanted to be
in journalism or did you have other career expectations and
desires or did you study journalism?
Speaker 3 (04:18):
You know, it's funny.
Speaker 4 (04:19):
I ever since I was really young, I always wanted
to write a book. I truly thought that I was going.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
To grow up and become a novelist.
Speaker 4 (04:28):
And I really got into a lot of like celebrity
blogs and celebrity culture at a pretty young age, like
in high school. And so my dream in high school
was really to become the editor in chief of teen
People or People magazine, and that.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
Really lasted quite a bit.
Speaker 4 (04:50):
So when I actually went to college, I really wanted
to study journalism, and at Florida State there isn't a
journalism program, so I still studied public relations, and even
when I transferred, I stayed a public relations major at
the University of Florida because I had already accumulated so
many credits. But at the same time I was picking
(05:12):
journalism classes, I was writing for, you know, both school newspapers,
and I really just truly enjoyed interviewing people and learning
something new on a regular basis. So eventually I did
get to, you know, reach that dream of interviewing celebrities
once I moved to New York, and certainly just right
(05:34):
out of college, one of my first big I don't
know if it's a big break, but one of my
first big interviews was with the cast of the Jersey Shore,
if you remember them, and that was for US Weekly magazine.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Right out of college.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
So I've definitely been consistent in the fact that I've
always wanted to be a writer and I wanted to
be part of, you know, the entertainment industry.
Speaker 3 (05:58):
And although I'm not.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
Really as connected as I used to be in that
red carpet you know, movie, TV, music spear, I think
that it's it was definitely like.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
A cool part of my twenties. And yeah, that has
remained consistent.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
I've always wanted to write and you know, be a
communicator in that regard.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
I wonder if you knew my cousin, Jeffrey Salernum, who
was a red carp.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
I did, Oh my gosh, yes, yeah, and so is
your cousin as well.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Yeah, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
He was such a lovely person. I would see him
on the red carpet so many times, and he is
he is truly missed.
Speaker 2 (06:40):
He is who was a hard worker. And Hunt is too.
Hunt's prolific. You know your website, Hillarysheinbaum dot com is
shows how prolific you are. You've got quite the portfolio
for our listeners. Hillary covers a wide range of topics,
which is I think the only way to make any
money in journalism these days, from beveridge to food, to travel,
to fitness, fashion, love and beauty. And kudos to you
(07:02):
because it is very hard to be a sustainable working
journalist right now.
Speaker 3 (07:10):
Yeah, you know, I think that it's changed so much.
Speaker 4 (07:13):
Certainly there was the heyday of magazines and obviously with
the dot coms now and a lot of social media,
people just get their news in different ways, and so
it is. It can be very difficult, it can be challenged,
and I think that as media has evolved, the writers
(07:35):
have to do the same. So yeah, I definitely cover
a lot of different topics these days. I cover a
lot of just lifestyle trends and wellness and obviously I
am part of the non alcoholic beverage industry. But I
don't write about non alcoholic beverage brands themselves because I
(07:56):
kind of I try to keep it church and state.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (08:02):
So in twenty seventeen, you wrote that you decided to
go dry for seventy days to learn more about yourself
and meditation. Things like that tell us the backstory of
going dry with the sober Curious God.
Speaker 4 (08:17):
So yeah, So when the first time that I decided
to go dry, I was living in New York City.
I was a red carpet reporter. It was twenty sixteen,
and I used to go to these amazing events and
after parties, and I would commonly bring a friend with me.
(08:40):
A lot of the times I would bring my friend Alejandro,
and he went out you know, all the time anyway,
But I he and I got dinner at the end
of the year, and he brought up this thing called
dry January, which I thought was kind of silly because
I was, you know, going out every night for work,
(09:03):
and I was also freelancing and covering topics of food
and beverage, and the majority of my articles were about alcohol.
And I was writing for USA Today and Eater and Forbes, and.
Speaker 3 (09:15):
You know, am New York and.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
I just didn't think that dry January was something that
was possible for me, given my work life and also
my social life, because I was in New York in
my twenties and I was single, and you know, with dating,
every first date involves going for drinks. So anyway, I
just kind of brushed it off, and a week later,
(09:39):
on New Year's Eve, I texted my friend while I
was drinking, and I suggested that we make a bet
to see who could go the month of.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
January without booze.
Speaker 4 (09:51):
And I ended up winning and Alejandro ended up losing,
and he had to buy me dinner. I got to
pick the place. It was anywhere in New York, and
so I picked a Michielein star restaurant called Momufukuko, which
sadly closed recently. But you know, during that thirty one
(10:11):
day period, I it was just life changing, as cliche
as that sounds, but I had better sleep, I had
better mental clarity, I was less anxious, my skin had improved,
and I was certainly saving a lot of money not
spending them on you know, New York priced cocktails. So
that's how all of this really started for me. In
(10:35):
January twenty seventeen, and a couple of years later, I
wrote a book called Dry Challenge that came out in
late twenty twenty, and from there, I've just seen so
many people kind of changed their drinking lifestyle habits. And
(10:55):
I will say that neither of my books are for
people who are seeking recovery program. They were really four
social drinkers who are looking to reevaluate their relationship with
alcohol or maybe you know, peel back a bit, just
see kind of what's out there. But I am certainly
not a medical doctor, and none of this is medical advice.
(11:16):
But yeah, that's really how it started, and it's just
kind of continued and snowballed from there.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Well, the timing is interesting because in twenty twenty, in
the height of the pandemic, a lot of people, you know,
because people were quarantined at home, the alcohol business was booming.
Our little neighborhood wine shop, Kenny said it was like
Christmas every day at his wine sir, because everybody was
drinking more and staying at home. And I think, you know,
(11:43):
from my perspective looking at it, all of it now,
everybody got very into wine. Everybody's doing virtual wine and
spirits and cocktail. But the end result is that come
twenty twenty two, I'll say, everybody realized that they'd give
they serve. I have COVID nineteen, but they gained the
COVID nineteen and a lot of us felt fat, lobby, pasty,
(12:08):
and sluggish. And unfortunately, some people did have a completely
different relationship with alcohol and some didn't. But I think
everybody kind of did a hard reset. I know a
lot of people who've shared that with me. And you
heard more people talking about wanting to take time off
from consuming. What is your thoughts on that in terms
(12:32):
of the timing and the evolution of what was cold
And I had never even heard the term sober curious
until Brad Pitt said it.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
Yeah, it's you know, I think that during COVID, as
you said, a lot of people found themselves drinking more
than they had before. Certainly, cocktail hour was rolling around
at earlier and earlier hours.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
There was no separation between.
Speaker 4 (13:00):
Work and being home, and so I think that people
were often using alcohol to divide that time. And I
know that people were really overserved, you know, overserving themselves,
I should say.
Speaker 3 (13:14):
So. I think that coming.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
Out of the pandemic, I think that people were looking
to jump back into socializing, but they were also realizing that,
as you said, you know, maybe their habits had gone
too far for their comfort, and they were looking to
take more efforts to be a little bit healthier or
(13:36):
a little bit more wellness focused.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Curious at what point. One of the reasons that we
were introduced to you is that you spoke at Tales
of the Cocktail, which also had a hard reset, uh,
and realized, because that you know, you know, there's that
TV term jump the shark where things just kind of
go this way, the two point and tails had to
have a hard reset as well and really step back
(14:05):
and address the growing topic of mental health and striking
balance in the industry. A lot of people opened up
that they were having difficulties with it, and fortunately knowing
everyone now feels comfortable talking about it and the conversation
is wide open. One of the interesting developments in this
(14:26):
from my perspective, besides that people are open about it
and addressing it and it's accepted and people know where
to seek help, is that the hospitality industry has taken
notice and is creating ways to offer better options for
those who choose to abstain or who are unable to
consume alcohol, which is where you started offering some consulting work.
(14:49):
So talk to us about how that all evolved.
Speaker 4 (14:52):
Yeah, definitely, And I love that, Like people are so
much more open about their mental health and it's I
think it's only bettered the community. But yeah, I think
that for me personally, when I started doing drid January,
and this was you know, eight plus years ago, there
(15:14):
weren't options for me on any menus. There were some
kind of like in the no brands that were popular
that I could buy online after doing you know, an
immense amount of research, But if I wanted to order
a non alcoholic cocktail, I would have to go to
the bartender specifically ask that for them to make it
(15:35):
for me. Sometimes I would ask to suggest ingredients and
it wasn't just as simple as pointing to something on
the menu and saying like, I will have one of those.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
And so I realized that pretty.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
Quickly, and now I work with bars and restaurants and
hotels to curate non alcoholic menus. So one of the
hotels that I've partnered with most recently is the Four
Seasons in Jackson Hole, and now they have non alcoholic
white wines that were recently added to their menu by
(16:11):
Geeson zero percent, and they're so good, they're absolutely delicious.
But I think the important part of that is being
able to, you know, open up that menu at their
Ascent Lounge and say I want this, and it's on
you know, its own page with a variety of non
alcoholic cocktails. And so if you're you know, even if
(16:34):
you are drinking wine or you're drinking a cocktail, you
can go every other you know, glass with the alcoholic
version first a non alcoholic version.
Speaker 3 (16:46):
And yeah, I just think.
Speaker 4 (16:47):
It's it's so easy when you're in places like you know,
Jackson Hole to have a dry quote unquote dry tripping
experience where alcohol might not be even necessary. But I
definitely think it's important to work with hotels because I
find that a lot of people see vacation and travel
(17:07):
as an opportunity to drink because they're not on the clock,
they don't have to necessarily abide by the same schedules
or you know, you see people drinking in the airport
at like seven am all the time. And yeah, I
just think it's important for people to be able to
point to something on the menu and say wow, that
sounds delicious, instead of having to think of it for themselves.
Speaker 2 (17:34):
One of the things that was a challenge that the
panelists brought up with the zero to Hero is how
to achieve that oo mommy in balance with a cocktail.
We've tasted many and we tasted details and also had
sample sent to us of non alcoholic option beverages from
(17:54):
wine to pre made cocktails to I guess mixers actually
distilled spirits and the still spirits and fairly consistently, and
I feel I think we both agree it's fairly still
an evolving industry. We haven't found tons that we love.
We found a few things we do. We taste with
(18:15):
an open mind with everything, but that was a big
discussion how to make the taste and the texture and
balance work. What are some ways that you advise your clients.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
You know, it really depends on what they already have
on their menu and the ingredients that.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
They're already serving.
Speaker 4 (18:36):
I've found and I do experimenting on my own and
more recently this might sound a little bit weird, but
I think that if you can pull off having seaweed
as a garnish, I think keeping your It's not that
you want to like drink salt water by any means,
but I think that if you can incorporate, you know,
(18:58):
a couple of ingredients that are well balanced, not too sweet,
they might have like a tiny bit of sweetness. But
I really think that there's a lot that you can
do with these non alcoholic spirits, because a lot of
them are you know, pretty odorless. They're pretty it depends actually,
(19:20):
but like one of them. There's a brand that I
really like. It's called flu Air, and they make non
alcoholic spirits where they have like all different kinds of things.
They have a medzical, they have a raspberry gin. Obviously
not for a UMMMI drink, But I think that there
are ways that you can really, you know, use what's
(19:44):
in your kitchen and use these spirits and not stick
to maybe like the traditional cocktails that you and I
are used to seeing on every men, you like a
margarita or even mohidos or things of that nature.
Speaker 5 (19:58):
You know, Melanie, we tasted a few spirits like that
at tails like Cocktail this year's non alcoholic. I thought
that they've really come a long way in the last
few years. Yeah, and really are starting to the ingredients
that you can really make great cocktails with.
Speaker 2 (20:14):
Oh surprised, I was. We went to a zero proof lounge,
Napoleon House, and I was taken by and we had
Lynette Marero on the show a couple weeks ago. I
was taken by her cocktail with applos she's working on.
I thought that was an exceptional drink that she made
in a terrific product. And obviously we're not paid by anybody.
(20:38):
We once had in the beginning. Seedlip, the founder of Seedlip,
was on our show because we liked the product. I
was just coming off of treatment for breast cancer and
got had gone to my first tee totaling tails and
wanted to learn more about healthy options. This is something
that's been a personal interest to me. I've written about
session cocktails for seven fifty daily because I do want
(20:59):
to see people have options. I think a lot of
people don't realize that it's that The reason that people
cannot drink or choose not to drink is highly personal,
but it ranges for so many reasons. Whether you're pregnant,
you're under treatment for religious purposes, for just you need
to pull back for your health and wellness. There's so
many reasons, and I don't think people realize that and
(21:22):
are sensitive to that, because there's a large population of
people that just do not drink for all those reasons.
And it was always frustrating Hillary and David to go
and just see diet coke is my option.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
And you know, sometimes people don't have a reason at
all that they don't drink. Maybe some people don't like
the taste of alcohol. I also think that there are
so many, as you were saying, so many options. One
of the websites that I love.
Speaker 4 (21:49):
Is called betterads dot Com and they have a lot
of an array of different products and a lot of selection.
I think that there's also been an uptick in functional beverages.
The brands that I've recently discovered is called Dwellmo do
(22:09):
Apostrophe m and it has seventeen functional ingredients, so and
they're all you know, to benefit your health. Whereas, like,
I think that sometimes people when you're drinking, even if
you're a healthy person who exercises, who goes to sleep
at a reasonable hour, you know, who takes care of themselves.
(22:29):
I think that often we can experience hangovers or not
feeling our best. And I think it's just really cool
that there are these brands now that only enhance those
you know, wellness functions.
Speaker 2 (22:46):
Now, there was a lot of discussion about with how
many options should be on a menu, the pricing, what
they should be referred to. What are your thoughts on
that if you were advising a restaurant, bar, hotel.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
So I when I'm advising a venue, I want to
be as collaborative as possible. So for example, a lot
of people don't like the name mocktail because they think
that it's mocking, you know, a creative drink that doesn't
(23:21):
have alcohol. And my viewpoint is, if you can fit
the words non alcoholic cocktail on your menu or zero proof,
if it is you know, zero point zero ABV and
that's the language that you want to use, I think
that's great.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
But if you only have so many characters on your
menu that you want to use the word mocktail, I
think that's fine, and I think that people understand what
that word means.
Speaker 4 (23:47):
I don't think it's like an offensive term. My viewpoint
on this may change, but that's how I currently feel,
and I think it's always important to have, you know,
a non alcoholic beer, a non alcoholic.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
Wine, and maybe a few different non alcoholic cocktails. If
you can make the cocktails that are already on your
menu not an alcoholic, I think more power to you.
But I think it is important.
Speaker 4 (24:14):
To at least have three options that people can choose
from that are not diet code.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Yeah, you know, I think that. I think you're right
about that. I've looked at me and they're they're all
the same price. So listeners, don't think you're going to
get a deal, right well, yeah, right, to.
Speaker 4 (24:33):
Touch on that, I think you know people it It
might not be so like obvious or a parent, but obviously,
you know, if it takes the same amount of time
for the bartender to craft a non alcoholic cocktail as
an alcoholic one, it's still you know, their time and
their craft. I also think that in terms of non
(24:54):
alcoholic wines and non alcoholic beers, those products have to
go through in addition process that makes it even more expensive,
and obviously sometimes that price is reflected on the consumer unfortunately,
but it's it's all because it's more costly or it's
(25:15):
the same costs. It's not I don't think anyone's trying to, like,
you know, pull any wool over people's eyes and say like, Okay,
we're gonna make this more expensive. But I do I
have heard from people that you know, they're they're more
respectful towards these non alcoholic beverages when they do have
a higher price point.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
That's an interesting point, it is.
Speaker 5 (25:38):
Yeah, because you know, when we were going through Tails
of the Cocktail and Taste, and we tasted a significant
number of non non alcoholic spirits sorry, and you know
they're all coming out at thirty to thirty five even
forty dollars a bottle, and so that compares to a
bottle of vodkorche and you know, of the same caliber.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Yeah, and the Cocktails of Us say, so.
Speaker 5 (25:59):
You know, they a lot of effort into making that product. Obviously,
in a lot of ways they have to put even
more effort into it because it's because they have to
come up with something that's gonna really taste like you're
not missing the alcohol totally.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, like I said, I think there's
there's a lot of products out there, some of them
are too sweet for us or metallic. I think it's
like with a really good bottle of wine, you do
get what you pay for uh and and it is
all in and and the ingredients and the way the
(26:34):
product is made. Much like much like wine, your books
do discuss and help people address being sober curious. It
is difficult for some people. It's a discipline, much like
health and wellness, and you write extensively on that topic.
I mean, like anything that is basically a process that
(26:55):
to manage to take care of yourself takes a lot
of efforts. Do you feel that, and I know that
you listen all the months. Do you feel the dry January,
Sober October and other alcohol free months are helping or
are they more promotional? Because I know that, And before
we went on, we talked about the fact that there's
(27:17):
some grumbling in the wine world about Sober October being
the worst timing ever and people are trying to sell
more products before the holidays. What are your thoughts on that.
Speaker 4 (27:28):
Yeah, I think that it can be a very helpful
tool for people who are looking to cut back. I
think for me personally, after you know, doing my first
dry January and my second dry January and you know,
starting to be just so aware of what I was
consuming was really helpful and it has influenced me to
(27:51):
cut back more and more. So I think it just
really depends on your goals. I understand that, you know,
people in the wine and spirits industries who are obviously
running businesses would find you know, sober October.
Speaker 3 (28:07):
Or dry January to be a bit frustrating.
Speaker 4 (28:10):
But with that, I think that for people who are
in those industries, I think seeing and realizing that their
customer is changing is really important too. And you know,
we've seen these changes occur within brands like Diagio, where
they've you know, brought in other brands like seed lip Right,
(28:32):
the non alcoholic spirits brand. We've seen it in beers
like Heineken and Corona, and we've you know, definitely seen
it in wines like Geeseen and Freshanet and Minetto. So
I don't think that it's saying like you should never
drink wine. I think it's just more of opening up
(28:55):
people's eyes to other versions of the products. So you
can still drink wine, just might not have alcohol in it.
And you know, if your goals are just to cut back,
then you know you can continue drinking after your dry months.
I think that you'll just be mindful of what you're
(29:17):
consuming moving forward if you weren't already.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
What's interesting. It's much like you know, you know Dave
and I, you know, we drink for a living wine
and we'll have days where we'll just say we're not
we're going to take a break. We have break days.
So you got to balance it. You can't, you know.
Pete Wells, God bless him. He reviewed restaurants for what
twelve years? Thirteen years and he ended up with fatty
liver and health issues. At some point. You have to
(29:44):
create balance and moderation just for your your overall well being.
Speaker 4 (29:49):
Yes, absolutely, I think it's just again, it really depends
on your lifestyle, your career, your goals, like how you're
feeling mentally, emotionally, physically. I think that there are just
so many elements of again, like why people decide to take.
Speaker 3 (30:11):
A night off or a week off, or a month
off or a year or longer.
Speaker 4 (30:15):
You know. And I also always say to people like
because giving up alcohol is not an easy feat, even
if it's four thirty one days, like alcohol is everywhere.
It's part of celebrating birthdays, it's part of dating, it's
part of mourning, it's part of you know, you have
like you have a terrible day, you lose your job,
(30:36):
the first thing that people turn to is drinking. And
it's part of our culture, right, and a lot of
people's cultural backgrounds. So I think that it seems and
it can be a very heavy undertaking.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
But I also always say.
Speaker 4 (30:55):
That if you have a drink in the middle of
your dry month or the beginning or the end or
whatever it is, or you have a night of drinking,
that's okay too, Like it's your month and you're allowed
to do it the way that you please.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
My suggestion is just.
Speaker 4 (31:09):
You know, getting right back to it and finishing off
your challenge or your month in a strong way and
continuing to you know, abstain. But it I think that
like there's there's been I think a lot of conversation
about dry months putting too much pressure, right, it has
(31:31):
to be all or nothing, and I think that you.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
Should aim for like one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (31:36):
But if you if you don't go the entire month
without a sip of alcohol, like if you do have
a drink, like, that's okay too. It's really the point
is to see how your life changes with the in
the absence of alcohol, if it does at all, and
maybe it doesn't. Maybe you know, you still sleep the same,
Maybe you don't lose any weight, maybe.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
You don't save any money.
Speaker 4 (32:01):
I don't know, but I can say that, you know,
there there are so many big changes and benefits that
can come from abstaining for just a short period of time,
So you might as well just like try it. The
time is going to pass anyway.
Speaker 2 (32:17):
Do you remember when you didn't drink for that period
of time. Yeah, well, I was also sick.
Speaker 5 (32:22):
It was in the hospital for three weeks.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
He lost like twenty five pounds.
Speaker 5 (32:25):
No, I lost fifty pounds.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
Fifty pounds, a lot of it. You weren't drinking, No,
but I couldn't.
Speaker 5 (32:30):
I didn't drink for like three months.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
It was amazing.
Speaker 5 (32:32):
And I also just I was adamant about only healthy
things going in my body and no soult. Yeah, I
couldn't drink, and I was, you know, I was. I
was in pretty rough shape. But well that's another story.
But yeah, I lost a lot of weight and I
and I gained a middle of it back, but but
not but nowhere near what I was.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
It was amazing. I was actually glad for that because
you look better and you're healthier as a result of it.
And again, you know, I'm going to underst score in
the hand about today. It's about balance. This isn't about
anti or pro I was writing someone on LinkedIn, and
it's not about anti alcohol, pro alcohol, neo bridge, prohibition
or all these terms being floated around. It's about we
(33:13):
all need to have a balance for what's best for
us and what we choose to do with our life.
It's similar to when I remember, you know, if you're
a vegetarian and then you go out and everybody's eating meat,
there were never any options for you other than three
measley pieces of vegetable on a plate. I'm so thrilled
now that when I go out there are really great
(33:34):
vegetarian options on a menu. And in the same way,
I'm really excited that when I go out and see
a bar menu or why menu, there's great alcohol free
options as well. I equate it that way.
Speaker 3 (33:46):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4 (33:48):
I think it's just like being able to choose is important.
And again, like even if you you know you're not
a vegetor and like you said, sometimes you just aren't
in the mood for eating meat, that's okay, no judgement.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
Yeah, I agreement.
Speaker 5 (34:03):
More so let's talk about going Dry, which is it's
called Going Dry, a Sober Curious Guide to Drinking Less
and Living More. And you call it a workbook, and
that's exactly what it is. You really want this to be.
You want people to make their own decisions, but you
also want them to document it in this book. And see,
you've really made this book into a workbook where people
(34:23):
chart the territory as they go through it.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Right, So tell us.
Speaker 5 (34:26):
A little bit about it.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (34:27):
So when I wrote my first book, The Dry Challenge,
it was about, you know, how to do a dry
January or a sober October, and it was also it
was also like talking about.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
The benefits of doing so.
Speaker 4 (34:41):
And the workbook Going Dry is really about the reader
and their process. And it has more than seventy different
like prompts and activities that are interactive for the reader.
And it's just supposed to be a very like non
judgmental guide as well. So there is a forward by
(35:05):
Lauren Bostick. She is a podcaster and an entrepreneur and
a New York Times bestseller and.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
The book was also reviewed.
Speaker 4 (35:15):
It has little back cover blurbs that were penned by
Molly Simms and Melissa Wood Tepperberg, who are also people
that I look up to. But the book as a
whole is just really for people to document and to
really figure out like how drinking is making them feel
(35:36):
again in a non judgmental way.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
So I think like for me personally.
Speaker 4 (35:40):
If I now look back on my last dry month,
I might remember some you know, general details.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
Like maybe I didn't go out on.
Speaker 4 (35:51):
A Friday night, or I you know, maybe I got
like eight hours of sleep, you know, consistently for a week,
but I might not remember or those details two, three,
four months later, even a year later. So I think
that having those things written down about like how you're
feeling and what's motivating you is really important so that
(36:13):
you can look back and recall those emotions and those
feelings and really those statistics that you may forget afterwards.
And I think it's motivating to you know, either keep
you going or or hopefully it doesn't discourage you from
doing another dry stint. But I think that, you know,
having those facts in front of you is always helpful.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
Well, it's like food. It's like having a wellness journal
or a food diary when you're dieting. It helps just
kind of those prompts were very helpful. It can be
very hard for some people to choose to make the choice.
May may have gotten very comfortable having their nightly nightcap
or at party or whatever. And you know, David, or
every time we go out to Hawaii, we go to Hawaii,
(36:59):
like every other year vacation, We're like, we're not going
to drink the entire sound we're there. We're going to
be really helpful, right, Yeah, Well it never happens, So
you know, it is what it is. You also have
to forget now blame yourself if you have a slip
up on it. But I think you know what's exciting
about this to me, Hillary, is that the conversation is
(37:20):
out there. Because there was a time where if you
go out and you don't have somebody to drink, somebody
would say why aren't you drinking, which is really a
terrible thing to say, but you know, or you would
be overserved, and there was a peer pressure. I grew
up with it. So I grew up with peer pressure
(37:41):
to drink. And I grew up in a family where
my father was a wine consumer and collector and taught
me about responsibility. And I was always into health and wellness.
So I always, even from my teenagers, had that issue
of why aren't you drinking more? Why aren't you having another?
Or what's wrong with you? And it dogged me a lot,
but fortunately I didn't buckle down to it. But you know,
(38:04):
a few bad times with alcohol, you never want to have,
you know, that feeling again if you over and bibe.
I think the fact that a lot of people can
talk about it and for whatever reason, is important, and
the fact that the industry is responding is very important
because we have to have options for people who are
(38:26):
not are not.
Speaker 3 (38:27):
Drinking yep, absolutely, yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:33):
So tell us what else you're working on and what
inspires you. What do you really enjoy writing about? If
you had free if you had all the freedom in
the world, Hillary, and it wasn't about writing to get
paid and write, you know, what would you love to
write about?
Speaker 3 (38:53):
It's funny.
Speaker 4 (38:53):
I feel very fortunate that a lot of the topics
that I cover these days are things that I.
Speaker 3 (38:59):
Am genuinely interested in.
Speaker 4 (39:02):
I think that a lot of my stories from The
New York Times are things that are they come up
in conversation with friends, and then are they inspire our stories. So,
for example, there was a recent piece that I wrote
about adults that sleep with their childhood stuffed animals and
(39:23):
how it affects their love.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
Lives and.
Speaker 4 (39:28):
Yeah, and that was actually inspired by a friend who
took her stuffed.
Speaker 3 (39:34):
Animal to her honeymoon.
Speaker 4 (39:36):
And I have known this person for, you know, more
than a decade, and it just randomly came up in
conversation earlier this year, and.
Speaker 3 (39:46):
I was shocked because I.
Speaker 4 (39:49):
Was like, wait, how do I not know that you
sleep with the stuffed animal and that you take it everywhere?
But anyway, it ended up becoming a New York Times
piece that I wrote, and it was just fun, you know.
So once she said it, I had to know if
if other adults were still sleeping with their teddy bears
and their stuffed animal dogs and things like that. So yeah,
(40:13):
I think a lot of the stuff that I write
is tied to my own personal interests, not in the
sense of like I'm pushing things on other people, just
like I genuinely care about, you know, wellness and fitness
and health and you know, other lifestyle things.
Speaker 3 (40:37):
Like stuffed animals, I guess.
Speaker 4 (40:38):
But yeah, I think that weddings are fascinating. I've covered
them for years. I think that there's just a true
intersection of you know, tradition and culture and beauty and
food and beverage, and there's so many topics within. It
really goes past the glamorous of you know, walking down
(41:02):
the aisle or all of the decor.
Speaker 3 (41:06):
Yeah, there's there's a lot there. So I yeah, I
think there. I have a lot of interests, but those
those things are usually at the top.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
That inspires me too as we as we go back
and forth on how to expand their portfolio. I think
you just got to touch on stuff that just tweaks
your interests and then just find the right people to
pitch for people who are listening who and we do
have listeners who are writers. You know, what would you
advise on crafting a great pitch? Because you know, we
all know we've all been there where you send out
a pitch and it's like crickets, you know, yeah, what
(41:42):
do you do?
Speaker 4 (41:43):
I think like the first thing is that you just
can't take rejection personally or like ghosting personally, because it's
not personal. But secondly, I think that when you're writing
a pitch, obviously it's very important to do your research
and make sure that the outlet has not covered that
topic before and certainly not recently, and if there's a
(42:07):
newspeg to it, like, why is it important that.
Speaker 3 (42:09):
You're writing about this now? I think that is really important.
Speaker 4 (42:13):
And I also think that it's important to introduce yourself
to the editor and explain to them why you are
the person who should be writing this article. You know,
if you're somebody who is who never drinks and you're
like very interested in non alcoholic beverages, I think you
(42:34):
would probably be a great candidate to do the research.
And you probably already have some background in you know,
products and how alcohol is removed from wine and beer,
and you know, you might know some people who in
the industry.
Speaker 3 (42:50):
Whereas, like, if you're somebody who.
Speaker 4 (42:53):
Maybe doesn't think fondly of non alcoholic beverages, you probably
wouldn't want to pitch because it doesn't you know, it
doesn't sound like it's something that you're maybe interested in, and.
Speaker 3 (43:06):
Maybe you might not know as much as like the
next person.
Speaker 4 (43:12):
But again, I think that's what's interesting about journalism too,
is that it's an opportunity to become the expert in
whatever it is that you're covering.
Speaker 3 (43:20):
So yeah, I hope that's helpful.
Speaker 2 (43:23):
I think it's interesting. You know, we always tell people
because everybody goes, oh, there's no money in wine writing.
If I hear that lament anymore, you know, so my
from where I stand wearing a business hat and tell
you to myself, if there's no money in wine writing,
then expand your repertoire or get a day job. And
right on the side, I mean, I think I've set
that to so many people over time because everybody's boohoo hooing,
(43:47):
and but it's true. You can only save yourself. And
why I'm a big believer as a journalist unless you're
at a very high level like the guy that covers
transported Chris van Cleeve at the CPS. He covers transportation,
expand your repertoire. And I think you've drawn a really
great point, right write what you know or what you're
(44:09):
you're genuinely curious about, curious about. It's important because you
don't have to be an expert in it, but you
are curious about it and you want to learn more,
which is one of my how I do things often
on my other show. Or what just amuses you or
sparks it's just kind of an interesting thing. Uh, and
then you will be able to find more opportunities to
(44:31):
play stories. But you really can't just be a one
hit one topic wonder unless you have a regular like,
you know, not everybody's Eric Asimov or Blake Gray or
somebody like that.
Speaker 4 (44:42):
Totally, I think it's important to I think also when
you expand a little bit on your coverage, it can
open your eyes to not only just becoming like a
better writer, but also other opportunities as well. I mean,
you know, I used to write primarily about wine, beer
and spirits and celebrities, and these days I very rarely
(45:07):
cover celebrities. Sometimes I'll do an interview here or there,
but I really don't write about Booze at all. So
I think, yeah, just being open to new things can
can change the trajectory of your career.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
How important is social media to your craft or your writing?
Do editors if you're trying to work with newers, do
they also look at your social media? Do you find
that having a strong social media following? And don't know
which true I'm not on it right now helps or
does it really matter?
Speaker 3 (45:40):
I think I don't know that.
Speaker 4 (45:43):
If I've gotten jobs as like in journalism based on
my social media I'm not sure. I don't want to
say yes. I don't want to say now. I do
know that when you are pitching a book, it's important
to be engaged on social media because as authors, you
are responsible for writing your book, and obviously if you
(46:04):
have an audience that is connected to you, they will
likely be the ones who are making those purchases and
making your publisher happy. I think that in terms of
like using social media, sometimes I've found story ideas that
way or have noticed trends, So I think it can
(46:28):
be helpful. I think it can also be disrupting, but
it kind of just again depends on your goals and what.
Speaker 3 (46:34):
You're doing with it and how much time you're spending.
Speaker 2 (46:37):
Right, And just just to underscore that your Instagram is
Hillary Rights and why and it is it is important
when you have a book. You know, it's probably reason
I'm still keeping it to have a book. But what
is next on the horizon. Obviously you've got the new book,
what else aster that?
Speaker 4 (46:57):
Yeah, so I'm going to continue work with hotels, bars
and restaurants on their non alcoholic menus. So I'm very
excited about that and throwing events. I have a few
coming up in New York and hopefully.
Speaker 3 (47:13):
I'll be back in Los Angeles soon.
Speaker 4 (47:16):
I'm currently nominated on a panel for south By Southwest
in Austin, so hopefully I'll be in Austin, Texas in.
Speaker 3 (47:26):
March for that panel if we get chosen. But yeah,
there's a lot going on and I'm.
Speaker 4 (47:31):
Really excited to see what happens in the next couple
of months.
Speaker 2 (47:36):
Well, that's very, very exciting. The south By Southwest thing
is interesting. Another friend of mine just wrote that she's
going to be speaking on a panel and food is medicine, Yeah,
which is a topic of interest. We've not been to
south By the Southwest, and we'd like to spend little
more time checking out Austin because it keeps popping up
in our aura these days. But it's very It's been
(47:58):
really great talking to you about your backstory and your
and your approach to carving a topic that I think
sometimes is misunderstood and needs to be understood better for
a variety of reasons. Because some people call it a trend.
I don't consider this a trend at all. I consider
that the it is part and parcel of the mix
(48:21):
that you have when you have a restaurant, a bar,
or a hotel, or a wedding or an event that
you have to think about every guest and what they
may or may not want to consume. Right, absolutely, well,
We've been talking with Hillary Scheinbaum and you can find
her at website by that name, and Hillary whites and
(48:44):
y on Instagram. We raise a zero proof toast to
you and thank you for all you're doing to raise
awareness and write about this topic.
Speaker 3 (48:55):
Same to you. Thank you guys so much. This has
been so much fun.
Speaker 2 (48:59):
It's one wonderful and you've been listening to The Connected
Table Live with Melanie Young and David Ransom. We hope
that you have found this interesting and helpful. And you know,
we always like to say, while they say sober curious,
we like to say, stay insatiably curious, keep your minds open,
keep your palace open, and we hope that you'll share
(49:23):
this show and follow us on the Connected Table. Thank
you very much,
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