July 24, 2024 • 51 mins
Clean eating, dirty sodas, Asian street food, sea vegetables and souped-up snacks for a nation of noshers- these are all items you may be seeing on more restaurant menus, observes Pat Cobe, Senior Editor for Restaurant Business Magazine. In her long career covering the foodservice industry, Cobe has reported on menu restaurant and development and other industry topics. She edits the weekly On the Menu Newsletter and co-hosts the Menu Talk podcast with Brett Thorn.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
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(00:21):
choosing W FOURCY Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Welcome to the Connected Table Live where your hosts Melanae
Young and David Ransom you're insatiably curious culinary couple. Each
week we bring you the amazing people we meet around
the world who work in wine, food, spirits, and hospitality,
both front and center and behind the scenes, and we
love sharing their stories with you and talk trends and
(01:00):
where to go and what's happening in this amazing world
that we work in and live in.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Right, yes we do.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
So We're going to talk about the restaurant industry today
with a long time colleague and very good friend personal friend.
You know, the restaurant industry had really has had some
serious ups and downs and changes, particularly during the COVID
nineteen pandemic. But I just pulled these stats from the
state of the restaurant industry from the National Restaurant Industry Association.
(01:28):
Sales are up. The food service industry is forecasts to
reach one trillion dollars in sales in twenty twenty four.
Growth will continue the Nation's second largest private sector employer,
the restaurant industry is on track to add two hundred
thousand jobs, pushing total employment to fifteen point seven million people.
(01:53):
So this is a major employer in business, and that's
really important. But they also said nine and ten restaurants
actually have fewer than fifty employees. Seven and ten restaurants
were single unit operations, and sixty three percent of adults
who've worked in the restaurant entustry, which you have and
I have, make it. It makes it the nation's training
(02:13):
ground for many careers. It's really really interesting.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Yeah, and it's not really the dream situation either, because
ninety eight percent of operators say that higher labor costs
are an issue, and they're also staffing less because they
can't find the workforce who left during COVID nineteen to
actually staff the restaurant, and we saw that.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
When we were traveling around the country there were so
many help wanteds or we can't open tonights because we
don't have any staff. And so as a result, even
here in New Orleans, a lot of restaurants don't even
open until Thursday night, Thur'say, eight, Friday, and Saturday and Sunday.
Sunday is the new Friday, and they're.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Taking less reservations on the nights they are open so
that their staff can handle the flow, which is a
big problem for them because they're used to working at
a certain capacity and they're actually forced to work at
a lower capacity.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
So we're going to talk about this with Pat Kobe.
Pat is a senior editor at Restaurant Business, and I
think she's been there for azillion years. We're going to
ask her of she covers menu trends, interviews, chefs travels,
really has her finger on the pulse of the industry
and specifically one of the biggest sectors, which is the
multi unit restaurants that hire in a very large capacity.
(03:25):
A lot of people don't even think about that, but
you know, it's interesting about that. And I learned this
at a Culinary Institute of America some program that I attended,
Like one corporate executive chef at a multi unit restaurant
or chain restaurant can make one decision to add one
ingredient to a salad, let's say, bonds, and that can
change the course of a grower and an industry as
(03:49):
candem taking the item off the menu. But it can
be fairly significant that one decision. So anyway, Pat Kobe,
welcome to the Connected Table life to talk about all this.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
Thank you, I'm so excited to be here.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Well, I really it's kind of fun because we've known
each other for years. We've never really, you know, sat
down and just had a heart to heart about life
in the business. We've always been in social situations. And
you've really come around in this business quite a bit.
How did you get your start did where did you
grow up? And what were what got you into journalism?
Speaker 4 (04:25):
Well, I actually grew up in Queens, which was a
lot different from a culinary standpoint when I was growing up.
I mean, now it's like the most global area for
restaurants in the world, I think, I mean, you get
every kind of global cuisine there. But when I was
growing up. It was very Chinese and Italian with the
(04:45):
two global restaurants and that was it. And we did
go out to eat quite a lot as a family,
so I really got into restaurants at a young age.
I was really lucky that my parents really liked to
go out on Sunday nights and we would go to
a Chinese or Italian restaurant most of the time, sometimes
a deli, but mostly, you know, Chinese and Italian. And
(05:07):
my mother was also a really good cook, so I
learned to cook from her, although she really was not
very experimental until maybe Julia Child and you know, Ming
Sai came on the scene. But she was a really
good cook and I really liked to bake. So that
was my childhood. But I became interested in journalism because
(05:29):
my parents always encouraged me to write. They thought I
was a good writer. I don't know why. I mean,
you know, when you're in third grade, it's really there
isn't really much indication that you're going to be a
great writer, and I wouldn't say I am. But I
always was interested in food and I was always interested
in writing, So I was really lucky to combine the
(05:50):
two in the job that I do. It's my dream job.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
It's everybody's dream job, and it's a hard one to attain.
Right now, you kind of timing is everything this series
pat that we started as called Behind the Byline, and
a lot of it is getting insights from people who
work in the journalism build and what they cover. You
did graduate from Cornell. I'm not sure what your degree is,
and you had a master's in journalism, So is that
(06:16):
important now do you think to have that master's degree
in journalism or is street cred Working at different outlets
and different kinds of outlets better well for me?
Speaker 4 (06:27):
At the time I went to Cornell, I graduated graduated
with a degree in uman ecology, which means it was
the new word for home economics. So I actually took
a lot of food and nutrition classes. That was my major.
But I also majored in communication arts. They didn't really
have a journalism program at Cornell, so I majored in
(06:49):
communication arts. I learned how to do all kinds of writing.
When I went to Boston University for my journalism degree,
I felt like I needed that cred, thatjournalism degree, and
it actually did help me get my first job. But
that was way back when. But when I applied to
(07:11):
Good Housekeeping for my first job, everybody else in the
food department was really a recipe developer, and I was
the only one who had any journalism background. So the
food at Food editor at the time was Zoe Coulson.
She's like a legend in the industry. She actually let
me write some little things. And I also worked in
(07:34):
the test kitchen, so I was able to hone my
culinary skills developing recipes. So that combination, you know, really
did me well for what I went on too later on,
which was working you know, as in some of the
other women's magazines. I did a lot of freelancing. I
was always on the consumer side. So restaurant business is
(07:57):
my first B to B public location, and it's so
much more fun working on this side. I have to
say that.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Well, the trades have maintained an impressive longevity in this business.
You know, they're always there, the consumer magazine team to
come and go.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
We both, but.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
They want to and they want to know what's doing
doing going to do them well in the future and
trend and things like that, and that's really important. How
long have you worked at restaurant business now, and how
has the magazine evolved actually in the landscape as the
landscape is turned more digital, how has restaurant business evolved.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
Well, I've been there twenty two years, which is quite
amazing to me. I mean, I can't believe I'm at
any one job for twenty two years. But it's really
evolved and changed so much so it's it's been like
a different job every few years. When I started, it
was all print. We had a test kitchen on site,
We did all our own photography. We actually had a photographer,
(08:58):
we hired a food stylist. We would do like recipes
from chefs and reinterpret them in our test kitchen to
make them, you know, look great. And we did a
lot of you know that kind of food journalism. I
interviewed a lot of chefs, but we also put a
lot of really pretty pictures in the magazine. And then,
(09:19):
excuse me, we you know, there was an economic downturn,
as everyone knows, in the around two thousand and eight.
We got rid of the test kitchen, and we got
rid of the food stylists, we got rid of the photographer,
so we started using all pickup photography, or we relied
on publicists like Melanie was at the time for great
(09:42):
photos and great leads, and then we evolved into all digital,
but that was not until about four years ago. We
continued with the print publication, although we published less frequently.
We would do it maybe monthly rather than twice a
month like it was when I first got there. So
(10:05):
we started evolving into digital slowly. I mean, we had
a website when everybody found it mandatory to have a website.
But about four years ago, when print became really expensive
to produce, we decided to go all digital. So we
actually write more now because we write on a daily basis.
(10:26):
Before it was bi monthly or monthly. I write an
article every day practically, so I publish about four or
five stories a week. We do newsletters, numerous newsletters. We
do webinars. We do a lot of events now, which
is a big part of being a journalist now is
(10:47):
supplying content for events and yeah, so, and we do
a lot of packages where all that my beat is
the menu. But we do packages where everybody contribute. So
we have a tech editor and we have somebody who
covers finance, so everybody contributes to these big packages that
(11:08):
we do, like we did one on labor and everybody
contributed from their beat. So that's and that's all digital
as well.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
It sounds like a lot of content. Are you hiring
more writers for this or is it just the writers
who are there just doing more work.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
It's really the writers who are there that are doing
more work. But we I mean, we have five editors.
The stories are much shorter. I mean when I first started,
you know, I would spend like two weeks writing one
big story, you know, on a topic like it could
be on Peruvian cuisine, and I would spend two weeks
(11:45):
just doing that one story. Now they're much shorter, they're
much faster. That's what people want. They want to consume
smaller pieces of information and content.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
So it's interesting you say that because somebody told me
a few years ago, no young person wants to read
more than four hundred words. So if it's if it's
longer than a page, they just turn the page to
the next article.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
So I should be gone. I'm getting eight hundred to
twelve hundred word assignments.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
Yeah, for sure. No, I think there are still people
who like to read long form journalism, but I don't
know if they're the gen Z audience.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
So how is your coverage. Obviously you're doing more, You're
you're filing more stories, You're doing more range of stories.
You also, I want to note that you host a podcast.
I was just listening to it men. You talk with
Brett Thorne, another veteran journalists in the restaurant industry. So
that's another level and layer of work. As podcasts take time,
(12:47):
what are you mainly focusing on now? And talk to
us about some of the topics that you're covering that
are a particular interest to you.
Speaker 4 (12:58):
Right well, I focus on all of the menu. I
do a regular feature called behind the Menu where I
talk to a chef about how one menu item came
to be from the idea to the finished product. So
it's like all the R and D behind creating a
menu item. So that's a bigger feature. I do a
(13:22):
weekly trend tracker where we talk about what's happening in
on menus, mostly in chains. You know, what new menu
items are coming out of the pipeline. People love to
see what their competitors are doing, what limited time offers
are coming out, so I cover that right now. We're
doing a lot specific areas of interest, like beverages are
(13:47):
so huge. And I'm not just talking alcoholic beverages, but
the chains that are coming out that are beverage only chains,
not just coffee, but like you know, smoothies and drinks
and what they call dirty sodas. Have you had a
dirty soda yet?
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Oh? What is it? I've been focusing on clean soda,
so what are dirty sodas still?
Speaker 4 (14:10):
So there's a chain called Swig that does just they
call they kind of invented the dirty soda. So they
take soft drinks and infuse them with like coconut milk,
so it sort of dirties it. You know, it's really
just a mix in, but they came up with this
name dirty soda, so it really caught on. They put
(14:32):
coconut milk, they put energy infusions in it, or fruit purets.
You know, that makes it like a different type of drink.
But there's like a lot of experimentation going on on
the beverage side, and that's really interesting everyone. You know,
bubble teas are huge. People are doing new iterations of
(14:53):
bubble teas, matcha all kinds of you know, beverages. So
that's that's one of the areas we're really paying the
lot of attention to.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Coffee. Coffee and tea a rage right now. I mean,
everybody's doing different renditions of it. Here in New Orleans,
there's a museum, Southern Feet Beverage Museum is just about
to open a big coffee exhibit. It's interesting. I think
I'm wondering, do you think that the current movement toward
(15:24):
reduction and consumption of alcohol and increase in non alcohol
beverage options is creating this stirring up this new development
in dirty sodas and tea drinks and bubble teas and
other things, or is it other factors.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
Well, I think that has something to do with it,
because these beverage concepts they almost employ you know, one
of them actually employs people they call they're like baristas,
and they're actually like micknologists, and they make these drinks,
customized drinks, and it's become you know, it's not as
(16:03):
big a chain as Wig. It's called Sip Fresh, but
they actually, you know, try and make everything customized like
a mixologist would. So I think people are seeking out
lower alcohol and no alcohol alternatives. This is a way
to like recharge and you know, maybe in the middle
(16:24):
of the day, these energy drinks are so huge among
the younger generation. I mean they just, you know, want
to be energized all the time with beverages, so.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Caffeine you know there, you know I I cover you know,
as you new health and energy drinks. I love the concept,
but I always worry about the what makes the energy,
which is usually the sugar a lot more high sugar.
I'm always open to trying new things, but I'm a
serious ingredient looker at the sugar content. I think you
(16:57):
touched on younger people like this, and it is just heartening. Listen,
it's disheartening when you're the designated driver and you're going
out to a bar or a restaurant or a cafe
and your only option is just straight sodas and occasionally
an iced tea, and it's nice to see other things
to try.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
Yeah. Well, I think this whole trend towards more like
single ingredient concepts, you know, maybe not ingredient, but like
beverage concepts and salad concepts. And it just seems that
everything is becoming much more specialized in the industry bowl concepts.
(17:40):
So the other thing that we're really looking at is snacking.
I mean, everyone is putting snacks on the menu because
every people just want something portable and handheld that they
could eat on the go. And I think the pandemic
had a lot to do with that. I mean, I
think people really, you know, when off premise and delivery
(18:01):
and takeout became so big, people are just used to eating,
you know, handheld and portable foods, and so snacking is
really growing as another day part almost you know, there's breakfast, lunch, dinner, snacking,
and that could be done in the mid afternoon, late night.
I've seen like happy hours expand because they're offering many
(18:22):
more bar bytes now, and it just seems like snacking
is taking over and it's here to stay for sure.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
You know, we've seen that too in restaurants when we've
gone out Melanie, where they have shareables on the menu
as well. It's not just appetizer, entree, dessert, but then
you know, things to share at the table, whether it's
olives or something else or flat bread.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Maybe it's like Italy the catti and you know, the
Pink Jo's. It's at that concept. It's very European. You know,
we we're going to tales of the content, tales of
the cocktail. This month. It's July and everyone's doing nibbles,
bar bites and nibbles, and it'll be interest seem to
see what the creativity is in these bar bites and nibbles,
(19:04):
and hopefully it's more than sliders, because I thought it
was slightered to death the last time.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
Yeah, I think I think they what a lot of
them are doing is downsizing something that they might have
had on the menu and maybe making something into an
empanada where it was maybe you know, an entree before
and it was spread out on the plate. They're stuffing
it into a little empanada pastry or I'm just trying
(19:31):
to think of some other street tacos are huge, I
mean the downsized tacos, and you make them so that
you can have a few of them, and they're tinier
and they look really nice on the table because they're
often served in like those little taco wrecks, and I've
seen those that you.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Can't eat just one. You eat a lot of them too,
So it drives up the quite profitable. Yeah, they're very
profitable for that reason because you keep ordering and nausching.
Now you went to the Summer Fancy Food Show, we
were not able to go, and that's always an interesting
from a trade standpoint as much as a consumer on
what the products are being introduced and where they may
(20:10):
be applied in different restaurants. What did you see that
you thought was interesting that we may be eating in restaurants,
and particularly chain restaurants where it seems like everybody is
going a little Indian and on us.
Speaker 4 (20:23):
Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean there was a lot
of there were a lot of Indian snacks. I mean
there were a lot of trends. You know, we were
talking about snacking and beverages. A lot of them were
combined in things like Korean street foods and Indian snacks.
I have never been to India, but I know that
the shot is really big on you know the street.
(20:46):
They're now packaging it, you know, Indian manufacturers are now
packaging and so you could grab and go like a
bag of chips or bag of pretzels. So I think
that was a really interesting development. The Korean street foods
where they're going way beyond you know what everyone knows
kimchi and bim and bop now, so now they're doing
(21:09):
things like Korean pancakes with condiments. Also, I saw a
lot of beverages, talk about beverages. There were beverages infused
with adaptogens to make them healthier beverages. And you talked
about sugar. So I saw a lots sweetened with monk fruit,
which is a natural sugar and a gove, you know,
(21:31):
so that people are trying to find alternatives to sugar,
and most of them were much much less sweet than
the American palette is used to, which is also a
good direction.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Syrup's another big one, and to watch that's a lot
of the health industry people recommend the monk fish month sorry,
monk fruit and date syrup a goavi less so, but
it's interesting and just sweetening it with other fruits and
using more spices like cinnamon, And you talk about Cardiman
(22:04):
was everywhere. We were actually surprised you didn't mention in
your article the everything bagel seasoning because when it seems
like we were a Trader Joe's, which is more consumer
down here in New Orleans. But everything has everything Bagel
on it.
Speaker 4 (22:16):
Now, I know it's crazy. I mean, I know they
sell it in like a little shaker so you could
put it on everything. But just this week, I mean,
carls Junior is a burger chain, you wouldn't expect them
to put everything bagels seasoning on anything. They just introduced
three new items with everything bagels seasoning like a burger French.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
Fries, and we just we just read that it's the
condiment that you can't take into South Korea because it's
illegal really because it's got poppy seeds in it, and
poppy is illegal to have in South Korea. Yeah, so
people who try to take everything bagel stuff from Trader
Joe's into South Korea get stopped at the border, it
(22:55):
gets taken away in customs.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
But they should be taking Topax because the topac, the
Trader Joe topbags are selling like hotcakes in Asia right now,
and you can make a lot of money doing Trader Joe.
Just don't take everything bagel.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
Just don't stuck it with everything.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Speaking of hotcakes, it's interesting. One time I talked to
Sarah Bethelbean, who's done very well at her restaurants and
her jams, and she said that Japan was her biggest
market and Asia was her biggest market. And I said,
what is it about your breakfast? It's so big over there.
She said, hotcakes. They love my pancakes. I can't make
enough pancakes over there, she said, Bill, I've got my
(23:33):
Hampton's house based on pancakes.
Speaker 4 (23:36):
That's crazy. Well, you know another thing at the fancy
FUTA you talk about everything. Bagel seasoning condiments are like
the fastest growing you know, segment of their industry and
they always do like the top ten fastest you know,
top ten segments like chocolate and cheese. Condiments got into
the top ten for the first time this year, which
(23:57):
and there were so many different continents, which makes it,
you know, which is something restaurants are using a lot
of They're using a lot of sauces and condiments because
you can you know, we talked about labor. It's a
low labor way of making something different and just you know,
like changing up a dish and you don't have to
think about it. And food service and restaurants are buying
(24:19):
a lot more of these specialty food items than they
ever have in the past. So it's a big market
now for the specialty food industry.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
An important one for them to think about creating packaging
that can go to the restaurant business versus the little
packages that they're selling for a lot of money to
the consumers. So it's a whole other industry to look at.
In terms of packaging, you know, the condiments are a
great way to put a high concept on a lowly
vegetable or piece of meat too. I mean, you can
take something that's an indexpensive ingredient and put condiments on
(24:51):
it and make it a whole nother thing.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
You know. In our travels, mel And we've also seen
that a lot of restaurants are now selling those condiments
that they make in how us in jarred form to
customers as they leave the restaurant. Yeah, so that they
have them available for sale. So that's another revenue stream
for you.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Are you seeing a lot of that more restaurants from
you know, mid you know, around the country creating their
own product lines as a way to create another revenue stream.
Speaker 4 (25:16):
Well, the chains especially, you know, I know that some
independent you know chefs do that too, Like Tom Calichio
has a whole line of Apasta sauces, and you know,
Mingsai has always done a whole line of consumer products,
but now like Chick fil A has a whole line
of sauces. Jersey Mike sells their relish the topping for
(25:41):
their sandwiches. I mean, yeah, there are so many chains
now that are doing that.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
You just can't eat that Chick fil A sauce on Sundays.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Yeah. Yeah. So you know what's interesting is when one
when one fast food dish item becomes like a rage.
And I'm going to give an example, and you may
know of some other ones, but remember when we were
living on the road and everybody had to have the
Popeyes fried chicken sandwich. And we were in New and
the lines the cars all over, whether it was New
(26:12):
York or New Orleans, there were just lines of cars
to get this chicken sandwich. We finally scored one. I
think it was in New Jersey where we also had
a fast food Lobster brob.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
No, that was Connecticut.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
That was in Connecticut. Like McDonald's. What other dishes are
like that where it becomes like this, everybody has to
have it, and what creates that frenzy feeding frenzy?
Speaker 4 (26:37):
Well, I think the chicken sandwich, you know, wars they
called them because that was a really easy thing to
eat during the pandemic. You know, everybody tried to create
their own. Most of them were pretty similar. They had pickles, sauce,
and the fried chicken on the on the sandwich. Right now,
I'm seeing a lot of loaded fries. I mean everyone
(27:00):
is doing loaded fries. I think Taco Bell might have
started it, but now it seems like a lot of
chains are you know, they're just piling things on top
of fries. Sonic does that? What else have I seen
that sort of caught on like that.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
I've actually gotten pitched by a restaurant chained down here
in New Orleans that says, come in and try all
the different fries.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
We were saying, if we started our own concept, you know,
it would be just French fries and it would be
a cone of French fries and different topics. And we
pitched that to somebody over at dinner the other day.
They're like that, I would do really well down there.
Speaker 4 (27:39):
Well that. You know. Also, these loaded shakes, I mean milkshakes.
Everyone sells milkshakes now, and I've seen you know, I'm
talking about, like, you know, the fast casual and fast food.
I've seen a lot of cereal going on top of
shakes now when cereal and other kinds of applications, it
(28:00):
seems like I think it's all part of the nostalgia craze.
You know, people want to remember their childhood favorite, so
they have Cinnamonto's crunch on top of the thick shake
and it makes them feel good.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
The milk bar phenomenon sometimes a very creative high end chef,
like the Patrice ship at Milk Bar. I mean that
was like her claimed effect. Oh another thing.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
At the bar, like the espresso martini. How many? I
mean everywhere you go you see espresso martinis.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Yeah. Yeah, Like I'm not sure how that happened, but yeah,
we've been invited to a couple of espresso bartini dirty martini.
Dirty seems to be a big word. It's you know,
what's really funny about it, Like in the wine world,
everybody's talking about clean wine, but in the spirits world,
it's got to be dirty, right, go figure.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
Well, it's a judge the position, you know, of words,
and people like to feel like they're doing something a
little naughty. I guess.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Well, we were happy to see this. Yeah, the Apparol
Sprits has got a little competitor, the Limonchello Sprits, which
we like because for me, Apple all spritss just tastes
like fanta. And I was excited about that. The sprintzing
is we were talking before we recorded. Spritzing is big
right now. Everybody's spritsing and I think a lot of it. Obviously,
(29:15):
it's hot, we're doing this interview in the summer. But
I do believe that as earth heats up, how we
consume food and what we're eating and drinking is going
to change because we need to hydrate more. We're gonna
you know, eat different foods because the weather, the climate
conditions are changing, and it's going to inpact a lot, don't.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
You think, Oh for sure. I mean we're doing a
big climate change package. I talked a little bit about
the packages that we do and a lot of the
independent shifts and even change. Like Chipotle, they're really being
very conscious about making climate smart choices when they source ingredients,
and so they're really you know, just buying on regenda
(30:00):
and roof farms, you know, farming farms that practice regenda
roof agriculture or have a low carbon footprint to get
the you know, the supplies to the restaurant. I think
that's going to become something that we see a lot
more of. I think restaurants will start bragging about their
climate smart sourcing and have more you know, items on
(30:25):
the menu that conform to those standards, and we definitely,
I mean, we are eating more plants. The one trend
I'm so glad to see evolving is away from all
the fake you know meat kinds of plant you know
meat analogs and the plant based meats more towards you know,
items that are really made from plants and are pure plants,
(30:49):
and more vegetables in the center of the plate. So
that's something that I really noticed a lot at the
Restaurant Show this year. I mean, in the past few
years you saw so many you know, plant based burgers,
plant based chicken nuggets and all that kind of stuff,
and this year there was a lot more. There were
a lot more ridings based on mushrooms or seaweed or
(31:09):
sea vegetables, and that was a really nice trend to
see happening.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
It's a great trend in from the consumer end. And
they're expensive. We've been sent some samples of some of
the best mushroom chips with a great backstory from a
woman who grew up in a farm in Asia. They
were fabulous, but we found we finally found them, and
they were so expensive and then you know you opened
the bag. You opened the bag and it's only half full,
(31:34):
which I've never understand. You just paid like eight dollars
for this bag of something that you love and there's
only it's only half full. You know what happened to
the rest of the bag.
Speaker 4 (31:47):
Well, that's something that consumers are really looking I mean,
value is so important now. I don't know if you
I mean I covered the fast food segment a lot.
You know, so everybody came out with a value meal
this year, just like they all came out with chicken
sandwiches during the pandemic. Everyone has a value meal, and
I think McDonald's probably kickstarted it with their five dollars thing.
(32:08):
But now there are you know, at least twelve chains
that are their competitors that are doing value meals, and
even the high end restaurants are doing more prefixed menus
that are kind of a good you know, they're kind
of value meals for the people who like fine dining.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
We like that in New Orleans they do it all
summer because they just want to get anybody in a
restaurant right now. I love the fact that people are
doing better plant based because we went on a period
of time where we tried every option to a real hamburger,
and we just basically gained weight, and we realized that
it wasn't any different or any better for us than
(32:48):
eating the burger bid. The challenges with all these great
new products is how you prepare them, because when you
fry them, it really kind of negates all the health aspects.
Speaker 4 (32:57):
Right for sure, people Americans love fried food.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
They do. Everything is fine, especially down here in the South. Yeah,
we see. You know what. The one chain we haven't
been to yet, which is the wealthiest pan in Louisiana
is Raising Canes. Have you ever been the Raising Yeah?
Speaker 4 (33:17):
Yeah, I mean they're like one of the fastest growing
chains and all they do are chicken fingers, chicken fingers, fries,
and and drinks.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
So why would that work? When is it one a
one concept restaurant with one okay fries, because everybody has fright,
what makes that work?
Speaker 4 (33:38):
I just well, first of all, they really make really
good chicken fingers. They actually opened one in Times Square
this year, so I think that was the first one
up in New York. So I actually I did have
a chance to try it because I don't live in
the South and I never had raising canes before. But
they brind the chicken tenders in buttermilk, then they coat
(34:00):
them with their like proprietary breading and they cook everything
to order, so you order it. It's not like sitting
there under a heat lamp, and they're really juicy and
tender and good. I don't know what I mean. People
love to contenders, so I guess it's.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
Here in New Orleans. There's one every three blocks, so
I think we're gonna have.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
To check that there's always a line of carsne of cars.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Yeah, you know, Pat, I want to talk about sustainability
of a different sort and talk about the restaurant business
in general for a little bit. You know, we talked
earlier in the show that that prices are up, employment
ability is down, and whatnot. It's obviously a tough time
for the last in the last few years, and it
(34:46):
doesn't really seem to be easy as much as people
think it would should be. At this point, tell us
a little bit about what you're feeling on the health
of the industry in general.
Speaker 4 (34:54):
Is well, I think the health is pretty good. I mean,
you mentioned the labor problems. Every restaurant is trying to
make do with fewer employees, especially in California where the
wage went up to twenty dollars an hour. It's really
hard for a restaurant operator to make a profit when
he's paying employees that much. So what they're doing is
(35:17):
like streamlining their menus to make them possible to execute
with fewer employees, and maybe even using more products that
are value added, like maybe getting in like bag salads
instead of making salads rescript so I think, but I
think the restaurant industry is such an important part of America.
(35:41):
I mean, people love to eat out, and they're not stopping.
I mean they might be trading down right now. That's
something that we're following. Even people who normally eat at
McDonald's may be going to a convenience store now and
getting a roller dog or a piece of pizza instead
of McDonald's, which is, you know, something you have to
(36:02):
do when you have to trade down. So other people
are trading down from sit down restaurants to fast casuals
like Tavo or Sweet Green, which are not that cheap
to be with. I mean, those prices have gone way
up too. But I really don't think people are going
to stop eating out or ordering, and you know for
(36:24):
delivery or for takeout, all the third party delivery companies
are doing well. So yeah, I mean, I think the
health of the industry is pretty good. They're in a
state of transition. I mean, most operators are paying a
lot more attention to mental health of their employees. Some
are even eating not eating, Some are adding childcare facilities. Yeah,
(36:49):
I mean they're really trying to accommodate the employees because
they know that's the most important resource really, And I've
also worked in the industry. I think everybodbody who writes
about restaurants or who covers the industry in any way
should work in a restaurant at some point, because you
really see what it's all about.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
So another big topic at Tales of the Cocktail Notice
is the mental health is a huge one there, and
there's a whole some in our train on that, from
dealing with substance abuse to being a working mother in
the bar industry and childcare is you know, so many
women mainly I've had to choose to leave their careers
(37:30):
because it's more affordable to stay home and take care
of your kids. Right now in the start your home
based business, and I know that you had for many years.
Mompreneurs a community and online community that address this, and
it's still growing and growing. I cover it my other show,
and it's added to a lot of what I call
kitchen table entrepreneurs and some interesting things, many who create
(37:52):
products because they're home and they're creating recipes. So it
kind of feeds itself in a lot of ways. You
mentioned for my money, I could eat at Sweet Green
every day. I have no invested interest in that company.
I sure wish I did. Uh, even when we go
to New York, and you know, we go up there
infrequently now, but we go. I that is still going
(38:14):
to be my go to lunch when I don't want
to drop what seems like an eternity a large sum
of money, and now to dine out in New York
that isn't easy. I know I'm going to get something good,
it's going to be fairly large. I can take some
home to eat in the hotel room later. So that's
still I wish they had one in New Orleans. They don't.
Speaker 4 (38:34):
Well, there's none.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
I they asked, you know my mom on social media,
when do they come into New Orleans? Sound sadly are
not a priority in New Orleans. It's we are still
seeing fried food and bread and anything big, you know,
pop boys and fried everything here and as a result,
there's a huge obesity problem here in so Petunia, New Orleans.
Speaker 4 (39:00):
Well, you do have a lot of good seafood, so
that's that's on the healthier side.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
Well, we're going to the restaurant show that they do,
the Louisiana Restaurant Show in August, and they're doing a
big competition and it is again the seafood is great
and it sells well and it's affordable, but everybody fries it,
so it kind of you know, the good for you,
but it is good seafood and we are seeing you know,
that has been a blessing for us because we eat
(39:25):
a lot of it. I'm curious you said you worked
in a restaurant. What restaurants did you work in?
Speaker 4 (39:30):
Well, I actually worked as a cocktail waitress when I
was a journalism school in Boston. So it was it
was a private club. It wasn't like but it was
the same, you know, food service type of setting. It
wasn't exactly a restaurant, but they served food and drinks.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
And so was your takeaway from that what was your
learning experience, Well.
Speaker 4 (39:53):
It was very it was it was very interesting. I
learned how to make cocktails. That was my major take away.
There was an old bartender named Henry who was really
like this old Irish bartender and he knew how to
make all the cocktails. But I think my takeaway is
and it's really a hard business to work in. I mean,
(40:14):
the hours are tough, the you're on your feet, it's
physically demanding. It's just a really difficult business. And I
think that's one of the I mean, you mentioned that
some restaurants in New Orleans are staying are open only
Thursday to Sunday. But I think a lot of chefs
are doing that purposely because they really want to have
(40:34):
a better lifestyle. They don't want to be open every day,
and they in New York, a lot of new restaurants
are doing like a chef's table, but just one weekend
a month, you know, so that they make this big
deal out of the menu. It's a tasting menu, but
it's only one weekend a month, and you have to
buy your ticket ahead of time, so you're not there
(40:57):
won't be any no shows. You have to buy the
take it and I think that's something because of the
lifestyle more than the profit, you know, and the labor situation.
I think it's really more of a lifestyle choice.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
What do you think about a couple of restaurants here,
including the Best New Restaurant Jane Beer Foundation Best New
Restaurant Dot Carnola. You know, you have to sign up
through RESI, which don't get me, sort of rezy. They're
like the you know, they really mind every two minutes
you get it. Are you there yet? You're running late?
Speaker 5 (41:27):
You better get their phone when you book your your
your two hundred dollars seat or whatever it is for
your preset menu, no substitutions.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
It's non refundable, right, so we can't go because you know,
he's got a ninety seven year old mom and there's
hurricane season. We can't book non refundable restaurant reservations. And
a couple of others. There was one we love memou
forty five dollars per person if you cancel within seventy
two hours.
Speaker 4 (41:59):
Yeah. Well, I guess you know that's the way of
the operator protecting him or herself because there are a
lot of no shows. But it's really difficult on the
customer for sure. Yeah, I think that's a credit card down,
you know, for four people, and it's like, you know,
a small fort. It's like five hundred dollars you have
(42:21):
to charge to your credit card just to make the reservation,
you know, and they give it back to you, you know,
with the dinner. But it's just a lot to take.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
A lot of people are trading down just because it's
easier to eat fast casual and you know, you just
really want to go out and not have any hassle
and not feel you're being penalized because you didn't show
up on time or you know. Frank Brison, we love
him that he said, you know that happened to him
because I was talking to him about this cancelation fee.
A table of six canceled on him within two hours
(42:51):
of their reservation. He's got a tiny restaurant. And that's
where I do feel that if you do cancel within
a certain timeframe, there should be a penalty. If I
booking two months out because that's the only table you
have available and you're putting a hold on my card
for three hundred and fifty dollars for two months, Yes,
for two months. That just doesn't work, so we can't
(43:12):
go there because you know, we're you know, like everybody
christ sensitive. So David, you worked at You've got to
get a couple of restaurants. Share your restaurant experience.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
Well, I worked in I worked in mostly fine dinings.
You know, it was a different and I was on
the management team, so I you know, I was the
one that was on the floor all day and and
well the waiters came in for probably three or four
hours less than I did each day, and of course
they were making more money. So that always drove me
up the wall. But you know, it's a tough business.
(43:43):
As Pat said, I spent about twelve years in the
restaurantess so you know, it was it was a long haul,
and I finally gave it up just because well A
I met you, but B I didn't. I didn't feel
that I was I had enough personal time. You know,
I did have days off, which was great. However, you know,
I ran a catering company for three years, and that
catering company, you know, if we had a lot of business,
(44:04):
I was working all the time, and then then there
were months that we didn't have a lot of business,
and I was working in a little bit of time,
so you know, there was that give and tick, but
it was still exhausting. And why I gave it up
because one year my aunt said to me, we had
a great Thanksgiving, David, the only thing missing was you
(44:25):
because I was working my restaurant. My restaurant was open
that day and I was a manager and I had
to be there. I think, I think customers that's when
I made that decision to find get out of the
restaurant business.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
Customers need to also be sensitive. I mean, I think
it's a bond that has to be you know, the
restaurants are there to serve you and restore, it's the
name of restaurants restaore, mistural and restore and give you
a great experience. But the customers need to be accepting
and gracious when that service is given to them, and
not complain and not be rude. And we've heard, you know,
(44:55):
we've heard a lot of stories about abuse that came
up a lot during the pandemic. So I think a
restaurant has personally every a restaurant has every right to
say to a customer, this is not acceptable behavior. I'm
taking to the door because it can upset the dynamics
of everybody in the room. Are you seeing as you
(45:18):
cover the industry more issues with dealing with customers who
are difficult.
Speaker 4 (45:23):
Yeah, well, especially during the pandemic, we did lot on that.
You know. Now the big issue is tipping and service charges.
I don't know if if there are a lot of
service charges added to bills down in New Orleans, but
New York has really started to do that, and you know,
and some people won't leave a tip, but sometimes the
service charge doesn't go to the employees. It goes to
(45:47):
like healthcare or you know, something in the back of
the house. So I mean it doesn't go to the servers.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
There's a big rant down here. A local food writer
has been ranting about it quite a bit, because everywhere
you go there's a service charge, a wellness charge administrator,
and everywhere you go at fast casual there's a tip
jar and you kind of go, do I really need
to tip because you handed me my package?
Speaker 4 (46:12):
Right?
Speaker 3 (46:13):
Do I need to tip for a cup of coffee?
Speaker 2 (46:15):
Or am I tipping for all the people in the
back who are underpaid? You know?
Speaker 4 (46:20):
Yeah, that's really object I think it's more objectionable when
you see it on the iPad and you have to.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
Skip over it with the objections when they put the
tip in on the iPad and you notice it and
catch it. That happened to me recently they put the
tip in automatically at the Chinese restaurant.
Speaker 4 (46:38):
That's crazy. Yeah, I mean, there's there are a lot
of issues right now that you have to be dealt with.
I think most of them emerged, you know, post pandemic.
People are realizing that the industry has to change, and
it's slow. I mean, it took a long time to
get here, so it's going to take a long time
to make all these changes.
Speaker 3 (46:59):
And a lot of it sense to do with tipping.
And I think, you know, and we've tried to get
rid of tipping, like Europe has very successfully, and it
just doesn't work over here.
Speaker 4 (47:08):
Well, servers don't, like don't want to get rid of tipping.
They've done so many surveys of them they wanted. They
make more money being tipped than if they even made
thirty dollars an hour, you know.
Speaker 2 (47:21):
So it's a whole another discussion that we don't have
time for because because it's you know, the whole taxing
and tipping and whatnot. I just want to say my
one restaurant experience, I'm probably say it was mister Sak.
I was a waitress at mister Seak and I had
a photograph of mister Seak popped up on Facebook, remember
(47:41):
when in Chattanooga and mister Steak and Hixon, and I
plan to post it. But I learned how to balance
all the plates on my arm wow ketchup. And I
learned how to I can clean a capture goddle and
I'm obsessed with it still. I found a therapeutic and
I learned how to upsell very well.
Speaker 4 (48:00):
I'm sure you were really good.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
I was. I did really well because my family would
come it over tip. But the cutest story and then
what is what I didn't know is every night when
I would go home, I didn't learn this so many
years my dad had parked in the parking lot and
followed me. Well, yeah he's followed me. Yeah, he followed
me home to make sure I was safe.
Speaker 3 (48:21):
That's so nice, you know, Pat, We're kind of coming
to the end here. So I want to know what's
one food item that you could eat every day and
not feel bad about.
Speaker 4 (48:32):
Well, it has to be cheese because cheese. I mean,
I wouldn't eat the same cheese every day, but I
just love cheese and I do eat it every day.
I just you know, it's my downfall. I think I
must have been like a former dairy farmer or something,
because I also love ice cream. I could eat dairy
(48:53):
products all the time.
Speaker 3 (48:55):
Melanie has a cheese cheese with it too, so I
love cheese.
Speaker 2 (49:00):
I can't resist frenchise. We went out for French Friday,
just less Friday, un yeah, pnch fries.
Speaker 4 (49:08):
Did they give you a special like deal on the
French fries or was it.
Speaker 2 (49:11):
They actually gave us two warders because david hamburger was
overcooked and he asked to get a new one.
Speaker 3 (49:17):
So they'd sent out a new thing of fries too.
We were like, we were fine with that. It was
French Friday after all.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
Yeah, and we liked the different toppings. I like mine
with mustard. He likes us with mayonnaise.
Speaker 4 (49:32):
So it's like a whole person too. And you're talking
help my ketchup after cleaning all those ketchup bottles, and.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
Exactly, I don't because salt it filled with sugar. Anyways, Yeah,
I like mustard, mustard any mustard and when I go
to the fancy food show, I just head to the
mustard section and try them all.
Speaker 4 (49:51):
Yeah, yeah, there are a lot of them.
Speaker 2 (49:54):
Yeah. Well, it's been great talking to you, pat How
can our listeners find and follow you and listen to
the podcast.
Speaker 4 (50:03):
Well, I'm on Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, TikTok on all those channels, nows, Instagram.
I spend most of my time on Instagram. But we
also and I have a podcast called Menufeed, as you mentioned,
so we have a lot of fun on that. But yeah,
we could listen. I look forward to hearing the podcast
(50:26):
and Spotify, Apple, I know your podcast is on all
those channels. Yeah. You know.
Speaker 2 (50:33):
The great thing about podcasts everybody listening is you can
listen to Patent breadths and you can listen to Melanie
Davis on demand anytime. And a lot of people tell
us they like to listen to us when they're at
the gym with their headphones on. So that makes us
happy that you're listening about eating and drinking and working
out at the same time.
Speaker 4 (50:50):
Oh yeah, that definitely works. That's when I listen to
most of my podcasts in the gym.
Speaker 2 (50:56):
It'd be interesting to do a survey on that where
do you listen to your podcast? I'd be interest saying anyway,
it's been great, uh talking to you. Can't wait to
see you when we're back up in New York or
if you're in New Orleans let us know. Okay, everyone saying,
go out and have a great meal at a restaurant,
any any restaurant. Go on support restaurants and take friends
(51:17):
and have a good time because it's all about enjoying
life to the fullest every day. Right, enjoy life in
the fullest every day, and as we always end our show,
and stay insatiably curious. Thank you for joining us on
the Connected Table.
The topics and opinions expressed in the following show are
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make no recommendations or endorsements for radio show programs, services,
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(00:21):
choosing W FOURCY Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Welcome to the Connected Table Live where your hosts Melanae
Young and David Ransom you're insatiably curious culinary couple. Each
week we bring you the amazing people we meet around
the world who work in wine, food, spirits, and hospitality,
both front and center and behind the scenes, and we
love sharing their stories with you and talk trends and
(01:00):
where to go and what's happening in this amazing world
that we work in and live in.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Right, yes we do.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
So We're going to talk about the restaurant industry today
with a long time colleague and very good friend personal friend.
You know, the restaurant industry had really has had some
serious ups and downs and changes, particularly during the COVID
nineteen pandemic. But I just pulled these stats from the
state of the restaurant industry from the National Restaurant Industry Association.
(01:28):
Sales are up. The food service industry is forecasts to
reach one trillion dollars in sales in twenty twenty four.
Growth will continue the Nation's second largest private sector employer,
the restaurant industry is on track to add two hundred
thousand jobs, pushing total employment to fifteen point seven million people.
(01:53):
So this is a major employer in business, and that's
really important. But they also said nine and ten restaurants
actually have fewer than fifty employees. Seven and ten restaurants
were single unit operations, and sixty three percent of adults
who've worked in the restaurant entustry, which you have and
I have, make it. It makes it the nation's training
(02:13):
ground for many careers. It's really really interesting.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Yeah, and it's not really the dream situation either, because
ninety eight percent of operators say that higher labor costs
are an issue, and they're also staffing less because they
can't find the workforce who left during COVID nineteen to
actually staff the restaurant, and we saw that.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
When we were traveling around the country there were so
many help wanteds or we can't open tonights because we
don't have any staff. And so as a result, even
here in New Orleans, a lot of restaurants don't even
open until Thursday night, Thur'say, eight, Friday, and Saturday and Sunday.
Sunday is the new Friday, and they're.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Taking less reservations on the nights they are open so
that their staff can handle the flow, which is a
big problem for them because they're used to working at
a certain capacity and they're actually forced to work at
a lower capacity.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
So we're going to talk about this with Pat Kobe.
Pat is a senior editor at Restaurant Business, and I
think she's been there for azillion years. We're going to
ask her of she covers menu trends, interviews, chefs travels,
really has her finger on the pulse of the industry
and specifically one of the biggest sectors, which is the
multi unit restaurants that hire in a very large capacity.
(03:25):
A lot of people don't even think about that, but
you know, it's interesting about that. And I learned this
at a Culinary Institute of America some program that I attended,
Like one corporate executive chef at a multi unit restaurant
or chain restaurant can make one decision to add one
ingredient to a salad, let's say, bonds, and that can
change the course of a grower and an industry as
(03:49):
candem taking the item off the menu. But it can
be fairly significant that one decision. So anyway, Pat Kobe,
welcome to the Connected Table life to talk about all this.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
Thank you, I'm so excited to be here.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
Well, I really it's kind of fun because we've known
each other for years. We've never really, you know, sat
down and just had a heart to heart about life
in the business. We've always been in social situations. And
you've really come around in this business quite a bit.
How did you get your start did where did you
grow up? And what were what got you into journalism?
Speaker 4 (04:25):
Well, I actually grew up in Queens, which was a
lot different from a culinary standpoint when I was growing up.
I mean, now it's like the most global area for
restaurants in the world, I think, I mean, you get
every kind of global cuisine there. But when I was
growing up. It was very Chinese and Italian with the
(04:45):
two global restaurants and that was it. And we did
go out to eat quite a lot as a family,
so I really got into restaurants at a young age.
I was really lucky that my parents really liked to
go out on Sunday nights and we would go to
a Chinese or Italian restaurant most of the time, sometimes
a deli, but mostly, you know, Chinese and Italian. And
(05:07):
my mother was also a really good cook, so I
learned to cook from her, although she really was not
very experimental until maybe Julia Child and you know, Ming
Sai came on the scene. But she was a really
good cook and I really liked to bake. So that
was my childhood. But I became interested in journalism because
(05:29):
my parents always encouraged me to write. They thought I
was a good writer. I don't know why. I mean,
you know, when you're in third grade, it's really there
isn't really much indication that you're going to be a
great writer, and I wouldn't say I am. But I
always was interested in food and I was always interested
in writing, So I was really lucky to combine the
(05:50):
two in the job that I do. It's my dream job.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
It's everybody's dream job, and it's a hard one to attain.
Right now, you kind of timing is everything this series
pat that we started as called Behind the Byline, and
a lot of it is getting insights from people who
work in the journalism build and what they cover. You
did graduate from Cornell. I'm not sure what your degree is,
and you had a master's in journalism, So is that
(06:16):
important now do you think to have that master's degree
in journalism or is street cred Working at different outlets
and different kinds of outlets better well for me?
Speaker 4 (06:27):
At the time I went to Cornell, I graduated graduated
with a degree in uman ecology, which means it was
the new word for home economics. So I actually took
a lot of food and nutrition classes. That was my major.
But I also majored in communication arts. They didn't really
have a journalism program at Cornell, so I majored in
(06:49):
communication arts. I learned how to do all kinds of writing.
When I went to Boston University for my journalism degree,
I felt like I needed that cred, thatjournalism degree, and
it actually did help me get my first job. But
that was way back when. But when I applied to
(07:11):
Good Housekeeping for my first job, everybody else in the
food department was really a recipe developer, and I was
the only one who had any journalism background. So the
food at Food editor at the time was Zoe Coulson.
She's like a legend in the industry. She actually let
me write some little things. And I also worked in
(07:34):
the test kitchen, so I was able to hone my
culinary skills developing recipes. So that combination, you know, really
did me well for what I went on too later on,
which was working you know, as in some of the
other women's magazines. I did a lot of freelancing. I
was always on the consumer side. So restaurant business is
(07:57):
my first B to B public location, and it's so
much more fun working on this side. I have to
say that.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
Well, the trades have maintained an impressive longevity in this business.
You know, they're always there, the consumer magazine team to
come and go.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
We both, but.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
They want to and they want to know what's doing
doing going to do them well in the future and
trend and things like that, and that's really important. How
long have you worked at restaurant business now, and how
has the magazine evolved actually in the landscape as the
landscape is turned more digital, how has restaurant business evolved.
Speaker 4 (08:35):
Well, I've been there twenty two years, which is quite
amazing to me. I mean, I can't believe I'm at
any one job for twenty two years. But it's really
evolved and changed so much so it's it's been like
a different job every few years. When I started, it
was all print. We had a test kitchen on site,
We did all our own photography. We actually had a photographer,
(08:58):
we hired a food stylist. We would do like recipes
from chefs and reinterpret them in our test kitchen to
make them, you know, look great. And we did a
lot of you know that kind of food journalism. I
interviewed a lot of chefs, but we also put a
lot of really pretty pictures in the magazine. And then,
(09:19):
excuse me, we you know, there was an economic downturn,
as everyone knows, in the around two thousand and eight.
We got rid of the test kitchen, and we got
rid of the food stylists, we got rid of the photographer,
so we started using all pickup photography, or we relied
on publicists like Melanie was at the time for great
(09:42):
photos and great leads, and then we evolved into all digital,
but that was not until about four years ago. We
continued with the print publication, although we published less frequently.
We would do it maybe monthly rather than twice a
month like it was when I first got there. So
(10:05):
we started evolving into digital slowly. I mean, we had
a website when everybody found it mandatory to have a website.
But about four years ago, when print became really expensive
to produce, we decided to go all digital. So we
actually write more now because we write on a daily basis.
(10:26):
Before it was bi monthly or monthly. I write an
article every day practically, so I publish about four or
five stories a week. We do newsletters, numerous newsletters. We
do webinars. We do a lot of events now, which
is a big part of being a journalist now is
(10:47):
supplying content for events and yeah, so, and we do
a lot of packages where all that my beat is
the menu. But we do packages where everybody contribute. So
we have a tech editor and we have somebody who
covers finance, so everybody contributes to these big packages that
(11:08):
we do, like we did one on labor and everybody
contributed from their beat. So that's and that's all digital
as well.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
It sounds like a lot of content. Are you hiring
more writers for this or is it just the writers
who are there just doing more work.
Speaker 4 (11:24):
It's really the writers who are there that are doing
more work. But we I mean, we have five editors.
The stories are much shorter. I mean when I first started,
you know, I would spend like two weeks writing one
big story, you know, on a topic like it could
be on Peruvian cuisine, and I would spend two weeks
(11:45):
just doing that one story. Now they're much shorter, they're
much faster. That's what people want. They want to consume
smaller pieces of information and content.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
So it's interesting you say that because somebody told me
a few years ago, no young person wants to read
more than four hundred words. So if it's if it's
longer than a page, they just turn the page to
the next article.
Speaker 2 (12:07):
So I should be gone. I'm getting eight hundred to
twelve hundred word assignments.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
Yeah, for sure. No, I think there are still people
who like to read long form journalism, but I don't
know if they're the gen Z audience.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
So how is your coverage. Obviously you're doing more, You're
you're filing more stories, You're doing more range of stories.
You also, I want to note that you host a podcast.
I was just listening to it men. You talk with
Brett Thorne, another veteran journalists in the restaurant industry. So
that's another level and layer of work. As podcasts take time,
(12:47):
what are you mainly focusing on now? And talk to
us about some of the topics that you're covering that
are a particular interest to you.
Speaker 4 (12:58):
Right well, I focus on all of the menu. I
do a regular feature called behind the Menu where I
talk to a chef about how one menu item came
to be from the idea to the finished product. So
it's like all the R and D behind creating a
menu item. So that's a bigger feature. I do a
(13:22):
weekly trend tracker where we talk about what's happening in
on menus, mostly in chains. You know, what new menu
items are coming out of the pipeline. People love to
see what their competitors are doing, what limited time offers
are coming out, so I cover that right now. We're
doing a lot specific areas of interest, like beverages are
(13:47):
so huge. And I'm not just talking alcoholic beverages, but
the chains that are coming out that are beverage only chains,
not just coffee, but like you know, smoothies and drinks
and what they call dirty sodas. Have you had a
dirty soda yet?
Speaker 2 (14:05):
Oh? What is it? I've been focusing on clean soda,
so what are dirty sodas still?
Speaker 4 (14:10):
So there's a chain called Swig that does just they
call they kind of invented the dirty soda. So they
take soft drinks and infuse them with like coconut milk,
so it sort of dirties it. You know, it's really
just a mix in, but they came up with this
name dirty soda, so it really caught on. They put
(14:32):
coconut milk, they put energy infusions in it, or fruit purets.
You know, that makes it like a different type of drink.
But there's like a lot of experimentation going on on
the beverage side, and that's really interesting everyone. You know,
bubble teas are huge. People are doing new iterations of
(14:53):
bubble teas, matcha all kinds of you know, beverages. So
that's that's one of the areas we're really paying the
lot of attention to.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Coffee. Coffee and tea a rage right now. I mean,
everybody's doing different renditions of it. Here in New Orleans,
there's a museum, Southern Feet Beverage Museum is just about
to open a big coffee exhibit. It's interesting. I think
I'm wondering, do you think that the current movement toward
(15:24):
reduction and consumption of alcohol and increase in non alcohol
beverage options is creating this stirring up this new development
in dirty sodas and tea drinks and bubble teas and
other things, or is it other factors.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
Well, I think that has something to do with it,
because these beverage concepts they almost employ you know, one
of them actually employs people they call they're like baristas,
and they're actually like micknologists, and they make these drinks,
customized drinks, and it's become you know, it's not as
(16:03):
big a chain as Wig. It's called Sip Fresh, but
they actually, you know, try and make everything customized like
a mixologist would. So I think people are seeking out
lower alcohol and no alcohol alternatives. This is a way
to like recharge and you know, maybe in the middle
(16:24):
of the day, these energy drinks are so huge among
the younger generation. I mean they just, you know, want
to be energized all the time with beverages, so.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Caffeine you know there, you know I I cover you know,
as you new health and energy drinks. I love the concept,
but I always worry about the what makes the energy,
which is usually the sugar a lot more high sugar.
I'm always open to trying new things, but I'm a
serious ingredient looker at the sugar content. I think you
(16:57):
touched on younger people like this, and it is just heartening. Listen,
it's disheartening when you're the designated driver and you're going
out to a bar or a restaurant or a cafe
and your only option is just straight sodas and occasionally
an iced tea, and it's nice to see other things
to try.
Speaker 4 (17:18):
Yeah. Well, I think this whole trend towards more like
single ingredient concepts, you know, maybe not ingredient, but like
beverage concepts and salad concepts. And it just seems that
everything is becoming much more specialized in the industry bowl concepts.
(17:40):
So the other thing that we're really looking at is snacking.
I mean, everyone is putting snacks on the menu because
every people just want something portable and handheld that they
could eat on the go. And I think the pandemic
had a lot to do with that. I mean, I
think people really, you know, when off premise and delivery
(18:01):
and takeout became so big, people are just used to eating,
you know, handheld and portable foods, and so snacking is
really growing as another day part almost you know, there's breakfast, lunch, dinner, snacking,
and that could be done in the mid afternoon, late night.
I've seen like happy hours expand because they're offering many
(18:22):
more bar bytes now, and it just seems like snacking
is taking over and it's here to stay for sure.
Speaker 3 (18:31):
You know, we've seen that too in restaurants when we've
gone out Melanie, where they have shareables on the menu
as well. It's not just appetizer, entree, dessert, but then
you know, things to share at the table, whether it's
olives or something else or flat bread.
Speaker 2 (18:43):
Maybe it's like Italy the catti and you know, the
Pink Jo's. It's at that concept. It's very European. You know,
we we're going to tales of the content, tales of
the cocktail. This month. It's July and everyone's doing nibbles,
bar bites and nibbles, and it'll be interest seem to
see what the creativity is in these bar bites and nibbles,
(19:04):
and hopefully it's more than sliders, because I thought it
was slightered to death the last time.
Speaker 4 (19:10):
Yeah, I think I think they what a lot of
them are doing is downsizing something that they might have
had on the menu and maybe making something into an
empanada where it was maybe you know, an entree before
and it was spread out on the plate. They're stuffing
it into a little empanada pastry or I'm just trying
(19:31):
to think of some other street tacos are huge, I
mean the downsized tacos, and you make them so that
you can have a few of them, and they're tinier
and they look really nice on the table because they're
often served in like those little taco wrecks, and I've
seen those that you.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Can't eat just one. You eat a lot of them too,
So it drives up the quite profitable. Yeah, they're very
profitable for that reason because you keep ordering and nausching.
Now you went to the Summer Fancy Food Show, we
were not able to go, and that's always an interesting
from a trade standpoint as much as a consumer on
what the products are being introduced and where they may
(20:10):
be applied in different restaurants. What did you see that
you thought was interesting that we may be eating in restaurants,
and particularly chain restaurants where it seems like everybody is
going a little Indian and on us.
Speaker 4 (20:23):
Oh, yeah, for sure. I mean there was a lot
of there were a lot of Indian snacks. I mean
there were a lot of trends. You know, we were
talking about snacking and beverages. A lot of them were
combined in things like Korean street foods and Indian snacks.
I have never been to India, but I know that
the shot is really big on you know the street.
(20:46):
They're now packaging it, you know, Indian manufacturers are now
packaging and so you could grab and go like a
bag of chips or bag of pretzels. So I think
that was a really interesting development. The Korean street foods
where they're going way beyond you know what everyone knows
kimchi and bim and bop now, so now they're doing
(21:09):
things like Korean pancakes with condiments. Also, I saw a
lot of beverages, talk about beverages. There were beverages infused
with adaptogens to make them healthier beverages. And you talked
about sugar. So I saw a lots sweetened with monk fruit,
which is a natural sugar and a gove, you know,
(21:31):
so that people are trying to find alternatives to sugar,
and most of them were much much less sweet than
the American palette is used to, which is also a
good direction.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Syrup's another big one, and to watch that's a lot
of the health industry people recommend the monk fish month sorry,
monk fruit and date syrup a goavi less so, but
it's interesting and just sweetening it with other fruits and
using more spices like cinnamon, And you talk about Cardiman
(22:04):
was everywhere. We were actually surprised you didn't mention in
your article the everything bagel seasoning because when it seems
like we were a Trader Joe's, which is more consumer
down here in New Orleans. But everything has everything Bagel
on it.
Speaker 4 (22:16):
Now, I know it's crazy. I mean, I know they
sell it in like a little shaker so you could
put it on everything. But just this week, I mean,
carls Junior is a burger chain, you wouldn't expect them
to put everything bagels seasoning on anything. They just introduced
three new items with everything bagels seasoning like a burger French.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
Fries, and we just we just read that it's the
condiment that you can't take into South Korea because it's
illegal really because it's got poppy seeds in it, and
poppy is illegal to have in South Korea. Yeah, so
people who try to take everything bagel stuff from Trader
Joe's into South Korea get stopped at the border, it
(22:55):
gets taken away in customs.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
But they should be taking Topax because the topac, the
Trader Joe topbags are selling like hotcakes in Asia right now,
and you can make a lot of money doing Trader Joe.
Just don't take everything bagel.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
Just don't stuck it with everything.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Speaking of hotcakes, it's interesting. One time I talked to
Sarah Bethelbean, who's done very well at her restaurants and
her jams, and she said that Japan was her biggest
market and Asia was her biggest market. And I said,
what is it about your breakfast? It's so big over there.
She said, hotcakes. They love my pancakes. I can't make
enough pancakes over there, she said, Bill, I've got my
(23:33):
Hampton's house based on pancakes.
Speaker 4 (23:36):
That's crazy. Well, you know another thing at the fancy
FUTA you talk about everything. Bagel seasoning condiments are like
the fastest growing you know, segment of their industry and
they always do like the top ten fastest you know,
top ten segments like chocolate and cheese. Condiments got into
the top ten for the first time this year, which
(23:57):
and there were so many different continents, which makes it,
you know, which is something restaurants are using a lot
of They're using a lot of sauces and condiments because
you can you know, we talked about labor. It's a
low labor way of making something different and just you know,
like changing up a dish and you don't have to
think about it. And food service and restaurants are buying
(24:19):
a lot more of these specialty food items than they
ever have in the past. So it's a big market
now for the specialty food industry.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
An important one for them to think about creating packaging
that can go to the restaurant business versus the little
packages that they're selling for a lot of money to
the consumers. So it's a whole other industry to look at.
In terms of packaging, you know, the condiments are a
great way to put a high concept on a lowly
vegetable or piece of meat too. I mean, you can
take something that's an indexpensive ingredient and put condiments on
(24:51):
it and make it a whole nother thing.
Speaker 3 (24:53):
You know. In our travels, mel And we've also seen
that a lot of restaurants are now selling those condiments
that they make in how us in jarred form to
customers as they leave the restaurant. Yeah, so that they
have them available for sale. So that's another revenue stream
for you.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
Are you seeing a lot of that more restaurants from
you know, mid you know, around the country creating their
own product lines as a way to create another revenue stream.
Speaker 4 (25:16):
Well, the chains especially, you know, I know that some
independent you know chefs do that too, Like Tom Calichio
has a whole line of Apasta sauces, and you know,
Mingsai has always done a whole line of consumer products,
but now like Chick fil A has a whole line
of sauces. Jersey Mike sells their relish the topping for
(25:41):
their sandwiches. I mean, yeah, there are so many chains
now that are doing that.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
You just can't eat that Chick fil A sauce on Sundays.
Speaker 2 (25:50):
Yeah. Yeah. So you know what's interesting is when one
when one fast food dish item becomes like a rage.
And I'm going to give an example, and you may
know of some other ones, but remember when we were
living on the road and everybody had to have the
Popeyes fried chicken sandwich. And we were in New and
the lines the cars all over, whether it was New
(26:12):
York or New Orleans, there were just lines of cars
to get this chicken sandwich. We finally scored one. I
think it was in New Jersey where we also had
a fast food Lobster brob.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
No, that was Connecticut.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
That was in Connecticut. Like McDonald's. What other dishes are
like that where it becomes like this, everybody has to
have it, and what creates that frenzy feeding frenzy?
Speaker 4 (26:37):
Well, I think the chicken sandwich, you know, wars they
called them because that was a really easy thing to
eat during the pandemic. You know, everybody tried to create
their own. Most of them were pretty similar. They had pickles, sauce,
and the fried chicken on the on the sandwich. Right now,
I'm seeing a lot of loaded fries. I mean everyone
(27:00):
is doing loaded fries. I think Taco Bell might have
started it, but now it seems like a lot of
chains are you know, they're just piling things on top
of fries. Sonic does that? What else have I seen
that sort of caught on like that.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
I've actually gotten pitched by a restaurant chained down here
in New Orleans that says, come in and try all
the different fries.
Speaker 2 (27:24):
We were saying, if we started our own concept, you know,
it would be just French fries and it would be
a cone of French fries and different topics. And we
pitched that to somebody over at dinner the other day.
They're like that, I would do really well down there.
Speaker 4 (27:39):
Well that. You know. Also, these loaded shakes, I mean milkshakes.
Everyone sells milkshakes now, and I've seen you know, I'm
talking about, like, you know, the fast casual and fast food.
I've seen a lot of cereal going on top of
shakes now when cereal and other kinds of applications, it
(28:00):
seems like I think it's all part of the nostalgia craze.
You know, people want to remember their childhood favorite, so
they have Cinnamonto's crunch on top of the thick shake
and it makes them feel good.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
The milk bar phenomenon sometimes a very creative high end chef,
like the Patrice ship at Milk Bar. I mean that
was like her claimed effect. Oh another thing.
Speaker 4 (28:23):
At the bar, like the espresso martini. How many? I
mean everywhere you go you see espresso martinis.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Yeah. Yeah, Like I'm not sure how that happened, but yeah,
we've been invited to a couple of espresso bartini dirty martini.
Dirty seems to be a big word. It's you know,
what's really funny about it, Like in the wine world,
everybody's talking about clean wine, but in the spirits world,
it's got to be dirty, right, go figure.
Speaker 4 (28:47):
Well, it's a judge the position, you know, of words,
and people like to feel like they're doing something a
little naughty. I guess.
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Well, we were happy to see this. Yeah, the Apparol
Sprits has got a little competitor, the Limonchello Sprits, which
we like because for me, Apple all spritss just tastes
like fanta. And I was excited about that. The sprintzing
is we were talking before we recorded. Spritzing is big
right now. Everybody's spritsing and I think a lot of it. Obviously,
(29:15):
it's hot, we're doing this interview in the summer. But
I do believe that as earth heats up, how we
consume food and what we're eating and drinking is going
to change because we need to hydrate more. We're gonna
you know, eat different foods because the weather, the climate
conditions are changing, and it's going to inpact a lot, don't.
Speaker 4 (29:37):
You think, Oh for sure. I mean we're doing a
big climate change package. I talked a little bit about
the packages that we do and a lot of the
independent shifts and even change. Like Chipotle, they're really being
very conscious about making climate smart choices when they source ingredients,
and so they're really you know, just buying on regenda
(30:00):
and roof farms, you know, farming farms that practice regenda
roof agriculture or have a low carbon footprint to get
the you know, the supplies to the restaurant. I think
that's going to become something that we see a lot
more of. I think restaurants will start bragging about their
climate smart sourcing and have more you know, items on
(30:25):
the menu that conform to those standards, and we definitely,
I mean, we are eating more plants. The one trend
I'm so glad to see evolving is away from all
the fake you know meat kinds of plant you know
meat analogs and the plant based meats more towards you know,
items that are really made from plants and are pure plants,
(30:49):
and more vegetables in the center of the plate. So
that's something that I really noticed a lot at the
Restaurant Show this year. I mean, in the past few
years you saw so many you know, plant based burgers,
plant based chicken nuggets and all that kind of stuff,
and this year there was a lot more. There were
a lot more ridings based on mushrooms or seaweed or
(31:09):
sea vegetables, and that was a really nice trend to
see happening.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
It's a great trend in from the consumer end. And
they're expensive. We've been sent some samples of some of
the best mushroom chips with a great backstory from a
woman who grew up in a farm in Asia. They
were fabulous, but we found we finally found them, and
they were so expensive and then you know you opened
the bag. You opened the bag and it's only half full,
(31:34):
which I've never understand. You just paid like eight dollars
for this bag of something that you love and there's
only it's only half full. You know what happened to
the rest of the bag.
Speaker 4 (31:47):
Well, that's something that consumers are really looking I mean,
value is so important now. I don't know if you
I mean I covered the fast food segment a lot.
You know, so everybody came out with a value meal
this year, just like they all came out with chicken
sandwiches during the pandemic. Everyone has a value meal, and
I think McDonald's probably kickstarted it with their five dollars thing.
(32:08):
But now there are you know, at least twelve chains
that are their competitors that are doing value meals, and
even the high end restaurants are doing more prefixed menus
that are kind of a good you know, they're kind
of value meals for the people who like fine dining.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
We like that in New Orleans they do it all
summer because they just want to get anybody in a
restaurant right now. I love the fact that people are
doing better plant based because we went on a period
of time where we tried every option to a real hamburger,
and we just basically gained weight, and we realized that
it wasn't any different or any better for us than
(32:48):
eating the burger bid. The challenges with all these great
new products is how you prepare them, because when you
fry them, it really kind of negates all the health aspects.
Speaker 4 (32:57):
Right for sure, people Americans love fried food.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
They do. Everything is fine, especially down here in the South. Yeah,
we see. You know what. The one chain we haven't
been to yet, which is the wealthiest pan in Louisiana
is Raising Canes. Have you ever been the Raising Yeah?
Speaker 4 (33:17):
Yeah, I mean they're like one of the fastest growing
chains and all they do are chicken fingers, chicken fingers, fries,
and and drinks.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
So why would that work? When is it one a
one concept restaurant with one okay fries, because everybody has fright,
what makes that work?
Speaker 4 (33:38):
I just well, first of all, they really make really
good chicken fingers. They actually opened one in Times Square
this year, so I think that was the first one
up in New York. So I actually I did have
a chance to try it because I don't live in
the South and I never had raising canes before. But
they brind the chicken tenders in buttermilk, then they coat
(34:00):
them with their like proprietary breading and they cook everything
to order, so you order it. It's not like sitting
there under a heat lamp, and they're really juicy and
tender and good. I don't know what I mean. People
love to contenders, so I guess it's.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
Here in New Orleans. There's one every three blocks, so
I think we're gonna have.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
To check that there's always a line of carsne of cars.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
Yeah, you know, Pat, I want to talk about sustainability
of a different sort and talk about the restaurant business
in general for a little bit. You know, we talked
earlier in the show that that prices are up, employment
ability is down, and whatnot. It's obviously a tough time
for the last in the last few years, and it
(34:46):
doesn't really seem to be easy as much as people
think it would should be. At this point, tell us
a little bit about what you're feeling on the health
of the industry in general.
Speaker 4 (34:54):
Is well, I think the health is pretty good. I mean,
you mentioned the labor problems. Every restaurant is trying to
make do with fewer employees, especially in California where the
wage went up to twenty dollars an hour. It's really
hard for a restaurant operator to make a profit when
he's paying employees that much. So what they're doing is
(35:17):
like streamlining their menus to make them possible to execute
with fewer employees, and maybe even using more products that
are value added, like maybe getting in like bag salads
instead of making salads rescript so I think, but I
think the restaurant industry is such an important part of America.
(35:41):
I mean, people love to eat out, and they're not stopping.
I mean they might be trading down right now. That's
something that we're following. Even people who normally eat at
McDonald's may be going to a convenience store now and
getting a roller dog or a piece of pizza instead
of McDonald's, which is, you know, something you have to
(36:02):
do when you have to trade down. So other people
are trading down from sit down restaurants to fast casuals
like Tavo or Sweet Green, which are not that cheap
to be with. I mean, those prices have gone way
up too. But I really don't think people are going
to stop eating out or ordering, and you know for
(36:24):
delivery or for takeout, all the third party delivery companies
are doing well. So yeah, I mean, I think the
health of the industry is pretty good. They're in a
state of transition. I mean, most operators are paying a
lot more attention to mental health of their employees. Some
are even eating not eating, Some are adding childcare facilities. Yeah,
(36:49):
I mean they're really trying to accommodate the employees because
they know that's the most important resource really, And I've
also worked in the industry. I think everybodbody who writes
about restaurants or who covers the industry in any way
should work in a restaurant at some point, because you
really see what it's all about.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
So another big topic at Tales of the Cocktail Notice
is the mental health is a huge one there, and
there's a whole some in our train on that, from
dealing with substance abuse to being a working mother in
the bar industry and childcare is you know, so many
women mainly I've had to choose to leave their careers
(37:30):
because it's more affordable to stay home and take care
of your kids. Right now in the start your home
based business, and I know that you had for many years.
Mompreneurs a community and online community that address this, and
it's still growing and growing. I cover it my other show,
and it's added to a lot of what I call
kitchen table entrepreneurs and some interesting things, many who create
(37:52):
products because they're home and they're creating recipes. So it
kind of feeds itself in a lot of ways. You
mentioned for my money, I could eat at Sweet Green
every day. I have no invested interest in that company.
I sure wish I did. Uh, even when we go
to New York, and you know, we go up there
infrequently now, but we go. I that is still going
(38:14):
to be my go to lunch when I don't want
to drop what seems like an eternity a large sum
of money, and now to dine out in New York
that isn't easy. I know I'm going to get something good,
it's going to be fairly large. I can take some
home to eat in the hotel room later. So that's
still I wish they had one in New Orleans. They don't.
Speaker 4 (38:34):
Well, there's none.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
I they asked, you know my mom on social media,
when do they come into New Orleans? Sound sadly are
not a priority in New Orleans. It's we are still
seeing fried food and bread and anything big, you know,
pop boys and fried everything here and as a result,
there's a huge obesity problem here in so Petunia, New Orleans.
Speaker 4 (39:00):
Well, you do have a lot of good seafood, so
that's that's on the healthier side.
Speaker 2 (39:04):
Well, we're going to the restaurant show that they do,
the Louisiana Restaurant Show in August, and they're doing a
big competition and it is again the seafood is great
and it sells well and it's affordable, but everybody fries it,
so it kind of you know, the good for you,
but it is good seafood and we are seeing you know,
that has been a blessing for us because we eat
(39:25):
a lot of it. I'm curious you said you worked
in a restaurant. What restaurants did you work in?
Speaker 4 (39:30):
Well, I actually worked as a cocktail waitress when I
was a journalism school in Boston. So it was it
was a private club. It wasn't like but it was
the same, you know, food service type of setting. It
wasn't exactly a restaurant, but they served food and drinks.
Speaker 2 (39:48):
And so was your takeaway from that what was your
learning experience, Well.
Speaker 4 (39:53):
It was very it was it was very interesting. I
learned how to make cocktails. That was my major take away.
There was an old bartender named Henry who was really
like this old Irish bartender and he knew how to
make all the cocktails. But I think my takeaway is
and it's really a hard business to work in. I mean,
(40:14):
the hours are tough, the you're on your feet, it's
physically demanding. It's just a really difficult business. And I
think that's one of the I mean, you mentioned that
some restaurants in New Orleans are staying are open only
Thursday to Sunday. But I think a lot of chefs
are doing that purposely because they really want to have
(40:34):
a better lifestyle. They don't want to be open every day,
and they in New York, a lot of new restaurants
are doing like a chef's table, but just one weekend
a month, you know, so that they make this big
deal out of the menu. It's a tasting menu, but
it's only one weekend a month, and you have to
buy your ticket ahead of time, so you're not there
(40:57):
won't be any no shows. You have to buy the
take it and I think that's something because of the
lifestyle more than the profit, you know, and the labor situation.
I think it's really more of a lifestyle choice.
Speaker 2 (41:12):
What do you think about a couple of restaurants here,
including the Best New Restaurant Jane Beer Foundation Best New
Restaurant Dot Carnola. You know, you have to sign up
through RESI, which don't get me, sort of rezy. They're
like the you know, they really mind every two minutes
you get it. Are you there yet? You're running late?
Speaker 5 (41:27):
You better get their phone when you book your your
your two hundred dollars seat or whatever it is for
your preset menu, no substitutions.
Speaker 2 (41:39):
It's non refundable, right, so we can't go because you know,
he's got a ninety seven year old mom and there's
hurricane season. We can't book non refundable restaurant reservations. And
a couple of others. There was one we love memou
forty five dollars per person if you cancel within seventy
two hours.
Speaker 4 (41:59):
Yeah. Well, I guess you know that's the way of
the operator protecting him or herself because there are a
lot of no shows. But it's really difficult on the
customer for sure. Yeah, I think that's a credit card down,
you know, for four people, and it's like, you know,
a small fort. It's like five hundred dollars you have
(42:21):
to charge to your credit card just to make the reservation,
you know, and they give it back to you, you know,
with the dinner. But it's just a lot to take.
Speaker 2 (42:30):
A lot of people are trading down just because it's
easier to eat fast casual and you know, you just
really want to go out and not have any hassle
and not feel you're being penalized because you didn't show
up on time or you know. Frank Brison, we love
him that he said, you know that happened to him
because I was talking to him about this cancelation fee.
A table of six canceled on him within two hours
(42:51):
of their reservation. He's got a tiny restaurant. And that's
where I do feel that if you do cancel within
a certain timeframe, there should be a penalty. If I
booking two months out because that's the only table you
have available and you're putting a hold on my card
for three hundred and fifty dollars for two months, Yes,
for two months. That just doesn't work, so we can't
(43:12):
go there because you know, we're you know, like everybody
christ sensitive. So David, you worked at You've got to
get a couple of restaurants. Share your restaurant experience.
Speaker 3 (43:21):
Well, I worked in I worked in mostly fine dinings.
You know, it was a different and I was on
the management team, so I you know, I was the
one that was on the floor all day and and
well the waiters came in for probably three or four
hours less than I did each day, and of course
they were making more money. So that always drove me
up the wall. But you know, it's a tough business.
(43:43):
As Pat said, I spent about twelve years in the
restaurantess so you know, it was it was a long haul,
and I finally gave it up just because well A
I met you, but B I didn't. I didn't feel
that I was I had enough personal time. You know,
I did have days off, which was great. However, you know,
I ran a catering company for three years, and that
catering company, you know, if we had a lot of business,
(44:04):
I was working all the time, and then then there
were months that we didn't have a lot of business,
and I was working in a little bit of time,
so you know, there was that give and tick, but
it was still exhausting. And why I gave it up
because one year my aunt said to me, we had
a great Thanksgiving, David, the only thing missing was you
(44:25):
because I was working my restaurant. My restaurant was open
that day and I was a manager and I had
to be there. I think, I think customers that's when
I made that decision to find get out of the
restaurant business.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
Customers need to also be sensitive. I mean, I think
it's a bond that has to be you know, the
restaurants are there to serve you and restore, it's the
name of restaurants restaore, mistural and restore and give you
a great experience. But the customers need to be accepting
and gracious when that service is given to them, and
not complain and not be rude. And we've heard, you know,
(44:55):
we've heard a lot of stories about abuse that came
up a lot during the pandemic. So I think a
restaurant has personally every a restaurant has every right to
say to a customer, this is not acceptable behavior. I'm
taking to the door because it can upset the dynamics
of everybody in the room. Are you seeing as you
(45:18):
cover the industry more issues with dealing with customers who
are difficult.
Speaker 4 (45:23):
Yeah, well, especially during the pandemic, we did lot on that.
You know. Now the big issue is tipping and service charges.
I don't know if if there are a lot of
service charges added to bills down in New Orleans, but
New York has really started to do that, and you know,
and some people won't leave a tip, but sometimes the
service charge doesn't go to the employees. It goes to
(45:47):
like healthcare or you know, something in the back of
the house. So I mean it doesn't go to the servers.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
There's a big rant down here. A local food writer
has been ranting about it quite a bit, because everywhere
you go there's a service charge, a wellness charge administrator,
and everywhere you go at fast casual there's a tip
jar and you kind of go, do I really need
to tip because you handed me my package?
Speaker 4 (46:12):
Right?
Speaker 3 (46:13):
Do I need to tip for a cup of coffee?
Speaker 2 (46:15):
Or am I tipping for all the people in the
back who are underpaid? You know?
Speaker 4 (46:20):
Yeah, that's really object I think it's more objectionable when
you see it on the iPad and you have to.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
Skip over it with the objections when they put the
tip in on the iPad and you notice it and
catch it. That happened to me recently they put the
tip in automatically at the Chinese restaurant.
Speaker 4 (46:38):
That's crazy. Yeah, I mean, there's there are a lot
of issues right now that you have to be dealt with.
I think most of them emerged, you know, post pandemic.
People are realizing that the industry has to change, and
it's slow. I mean, it took a long time to
get here, so it's going to take a long time
to make all these changes.
Speaker 3 (46:59):
And a lot of it sense to do with tipping.
And I think, you know, and we've tried to get
rid of tipping, like Europe has very successfully, and it
just doesn't work over here.
Speaker 4 (47:08):
Well, servers don't, like don't want to get rid of tipping.
They've done so many surveys of them they wanted. They
make more money being tipped than if they even made
thirty dollars an hour, you know.
Speaker 2 (47:21):
So it's a whole another discussion that we don't have
time for because because it's you know, the whole taxing
and tipping and whatnot. I just want to say my
one restaurant experience, I'm probably say it was mister Sak.
I was a waitress at mister Seak and I had
a photograph of mister Seak popped up on Facebook, remember
(47:41):
when in Chattanooga and mister Steak and Hixon, and I
plan to post it. But I learned how to balance
all the plates on my arm wow ketchup. And I
learned how to I can clean a capture goddle and
I'm obsessed with it still. I found a therapeutic and
I learned how to upsell very well.
Speaker 4 (48:00):
I'm sure you were really good.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
I was. I did really well because my family would
come it over tip. But the cutest story and then
what is what I didn't know is every night when
I would go home, I didn't learn this so many
years my dad had parked in the parking lot and
followed me. Well, yeah he's followed me. Yeah, he followed
me home to make sure I was safe.
Speaker 3 (48:21):
That's so nice, you know, Pat, We're kind of coming
to the end here. So I want to know what's
one food item that you could eat every day and
not feel bad about.
Speaker 4 (48:32):
Well, it has to be cheese because cheese. I mean,
I wouldn't eat the same cheese every day, but I
just love cheese and I do eat it every day.
I just you know, it's my downfall. I think I
must have been like a former dairy farmer or something,
because I also love ice cream. I could eat dairy
(48:53):
products all the time.
Speaker 3 (48:55):
Melanie has a cheese cheese with it too, so I
love cheese.
Speaker 2 (49:00):
I can't resist frenchise. We went out for French Friday,
just less Friday, un yeah, pnch fries.
Speaker 4 (49:08):
Did they give you a special like deal on the
French fries or was it.
Speaker 2 (49:11):
They actually gave us two warders because david hamburger was
overcooked and he asked to get a new one.
Speaker 3 (49:17):
So they'd sent out a new thing of fries too.
We were like, we were fine with that. It was
French Friday after all.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
Yeah, and we liked the different toppings. I like mine
with mustard. He likes us with mayonnaise.
Speaker 4 (49:32):
So it's like a whole person too. And you're talking
help my ketchup after cleaning all those ketchup bottles, and.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
Exactly, I don't because salt it filled with sugar. Anyways, Yeah,
I like mustard, mustard any mustard and when I go
to the fancy food show, I just head to the
mustard section and try them all.
Speaker 4 (49:51):
Yeah, yeah, there are a lot of them.
Speaker 2 (49:54):
Yeah. Well, it's been great talking to you, pat How
can our listeners find and follow you and listen to
the podcast.
Speaker 4 (50:03):
Well, I'm on Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, TikTok on all those channels, nows, Instagram.
I spend most of my time on Instagram. But we
also and I have a podcast called Menufeed, as you mentioned,
so we have a lot of fun on that. But yeah,
we could listen. I look forward to hearing the podcast
(50:26):
and Spotify, Apple, I know your podcast is on all
those channels. Yeah. You know.
Speaker 2 (50:33):
The great thing about podcasts everybody listening is you can
listen to Patent breadths and you can listen to Melanie
Davis on demand anytime. And a lot of people tell
us they like to listen to us when they're at
the gym with their headphones on. So that makes us
happy that you're listening about eating and drinking and working
out at the same time.
Speaker 4 (50:50):
Oh yeah, that definitely works. That's when I listen to
most of my podcasts in the gym.
Speaker 2 (50:56):
It'd be interesting to do a survey on that where
do you listen to your podcast? I'd be interest saying anyway,
it's been great, uh talking to you. Can't wait to
see you when we're back up in New York or
if you're in New Orleans let us know. Okay, everyone saying,
go out and have a great meal at a restaurant,
any any restaurant. Go on support restaurants and take friends
(51:17):
and have a good time because it's all about enjoying
life to the fullest every day. Right, enjoy life in
the fullest every day, and as we always end our show,
and stay insatiably curious. Thank you for joining us on
the Connected Table.
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