December 11, 2024 • 46 mins
Amid the steep vineyards of the Côte-Rôtie in the Northern Rhône Valley you will see signs bearing the name E. Guigal, a storied family producer founded in 1946 by Étienne Guigal. His son, Marcel, and grandson, Philippe Guigal have continued his legacy, overseeing production of E. Guigal wines in several Rhône Valley appellation including Côte-Rôtie, Condrieu, Hermitage, Saint-Joseph, Crozes-Hermitage and Châteauneuf-du-Pape. Philippe Guigal discusses the family history and the wines.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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(00:21):
W FOURCY Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Welcome to the Connected Table Live. We're your hosts, Melanie
Young and David Ransom. You're insatiably curious culinary couple. We
enjoy bringing you the dynamic people who are front and
center and behind the scenes in wine, food, spirits and
hospitality around the world. Oh, taking you to those places
(01:01):
and do we enjoy visiting them right?
Speaker 3 (01:03):
David, Sure do?
Speaker 4 (01:04):
Melanie always a joy to travel and experience new places
and things, new wines, new food, new people.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Well, we are going to take you today to a
place in France that we absolutely love, to a very
storied winery and family. We're taking you to the Coute
Latis of the Rhone Valley, which is probably one of
the most striking landscapes in France, right, it's really one.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
Of the most beautiful areas in the Rhone. Southern Ruin
is wide and flat, the northern Roon, which is where
Cocrotea is based, is steep and narrow, and it's just
a stunning vista.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Yeah, we've been up on those vineyards and they are
steep and terraced. And along the way as you drive
you'll see signs of some of the famous wine producers,
and one of them is E Gigal Masson. Gigall was
founded in nineteen four, three generations and it's family owned.
(02:04):
In a time when many family wineries are not family owned,
this one is proud to be and joining us is
the third generation in charge of the family property in
a state and the winemaker charge of all viticultural detail,
Philippe Gigall, who we had the chance to meet while
we were in New York and taste an amazing selection
(02:27):
of wines with his importer Vintis, and he joins us
today on the Connected Table live from France. Welcome, thank
you very.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Much, very nice to talk with you and h happy
with you. Melanie David Pleasure.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Well, it was a pleasure to meet you and we
cannot wait to come to visit you in France. The
family has an amazing story. Think about nineteen forty six,
what France was like in nineteen forty six when your
grandfather started. Maysoon gig all talk to us about him
and his background and his story, because it's one of
(03:05):
survival and determination and vision.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Yes, my grandfather was a very special character. He started
to physically work at a very young age. He was
eighty years old when he first worked for himself and
started to work for his living. So he had a
very hard and difficult childhood. He joins the small village
(03:30):
where we live today on pu at a very young age.
He was fourteen years old, working in the vinyards first
then the sellers, and this is where he acquite his
strong knowledge and experience on the crazy slopes of kut
Roti that you just mentioned. So he started Gigau the
first of January nineteen forty six with already a strong experience,
(03:54):
and both my dad and I are extremely grateful to
my grandfather tremendous work, having studied the winery at a
difficult time. As you said, nineteen forty six, friends, was
in a very bad state after World War two, and
people were not thinking of drinking fancy and the expensive
(04:14):
wines that were thinking of eating. So let's say, the
beginning of the winery has been tricky, difficult, but my
grandfather always stayed extremely focused in quality and my dad
joined him in the sixties and they both, let's say,
built the winery with a strong base, a.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Very strong base. You know, I think about nineteen forty six,
and you said it was hard. It was post war,
and yes, people were thinking about surviving and eating and
feeding their families. But wine historically has also provided for families.
Wine was the safer option to drink at the time
when water was questionable, and it provided to be a
(04:58):
commodity in terms of internet national trade because people drank
and people started drinking even more after the war. What
are some things that your grandfather Ettien taught you? What
did you learn from him?
Speaker 3 (05:14):
You know, my grandfather was a very hard worker, so
it was a physical worker and once again he's done
a tremendous work on the slopes of Kutoti, in the
cellars and literally in all the technical fields. I joined
the winery about thirty years ago, and my dad, let's say,
(05:35):
developed the winery with let's say more more prospective, more
vision of what we could do, what we could achieve
in our own region, that is to say, the Room
Valley bit from north to south, et cetera. So they
were complimentary, they were different charactors. My grandfather, you know,
(05:59):
almost came killed himself, working very hard. My dad is
eighty one now, still working very hard, but he's in
love with his office, for example, so he has a
lot of time in the office, and I try to
mix both. I try to be in the vignids, I
try to be in the sellers, and of course I
have to be in the office. So let's say each
(06:21):
generation brings its own stone to the family story.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
You know, it's interesting, Melanie that ATM ended up making
sixty seven vintages in the Rown Valley, and your father
Marcel is getting close to that himself. He's probably done
at least sixty vintages himself, exactly.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
He's celebrated his sixty fourth vitage this year. So I'm
extremely proud of my dad. And yes, we always joke saying, okay,
at least three more vintages. It's the minimum you can
do in order to keep back grandfather's record. Yes, my
dad is very impressive. That is age.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Absolutely, that's impressive, it really is. Well, let's talk to
us about where you're located. For our listeners who may
not have had the opportunity to visit the co Roti
in the Northern Rhone, let's distinguish it first of all,
where it's located in France, and how the Northern Rhone
is different from the southernone. David touched on briefly the geography,
(07:24):
but let's dive deeper because it's so different in terms
of what has grown and produced, so the winer.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
And where we live. That is to say, the small
village of Ampui is the heart of kut Foti, and
Kutfoti being the northern appellation of the entire room value.
So just keep in mind that we are only twenty
five minutes south of Leon. Leon is the second largest
city in France. Of course, for the US, it's a
(07:54):
small city. We're talking about one million and habitant only,
but it's the second larger. And it's interesting to understand
and realize that Lyon is well known in our own country,
but also in Europe and in the world for the food,
so it's a real temple of astronomy in France. And
(08:16):
I used to say that the small village where I
live on Pui is in the countryside and in the
middle of nowhere, so it's really the French countryside. But interestingly,
if you draw a circle of fifty kilometers only around
this small village, you will find thirty seven Mission Star restaurants.
(08:37):
So this is something that is very impressive because it's
a very impressive figure, and it's a region. It's a
place where I live well known for good food but
also good wine. So this is the northern part of
the Rhone Valley and we of course interact every day
with the southern part. I would mention Shadon of Depak
(08:58):
being the king appalation of the south, and I go
to Chatnapa almost every week, I would say every ten
days maximum, And it's a one hour and a half
drive south, so it's it's not very far our way.
It's a long region from north to south. It's all
together maybe two hours two hours and a half. But
it's definitely the same, the same wine region, that is
(09:21):
to say the wrong value, but.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
So different in so many ways, including the grapes I
used to make the wine. Let's talk about the Cote Roti.
And we also want to know that Ampui is known
for its apricots, which is very very good. We've been
to Ampui and we had those apricots. It's quite fabulous.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
In July, it's it's a delight. Yes, we produce another.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Yes, small fact and the centerpiece for your family is
Chateau d'ampui, which was acquired in nineteen ninety five. Tell
us a story of Chateau Dampui and the signif again
in this area.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Chatelepi is the local castle of this village. It's a
very interesting building. It's a listed monument, so it's classified
as a French historical monument, and it's dating back the
early sixteenth century, so it's a piece of history. And
let's say the building itself, the shuttle dope, is directly
(10:24):
linked to the history of our appalation, Coute Roti. If
you open a book mentioning Courte Roti, you will quickly
read an interesting legend. And the legend says that at
the sixteenth century time, the owner of this castle was
the Marquis de mos Geron would have had two daughters,
one blonde hair girl, and when she got married, it
(10:48):
decided to give her a half of his vinea, the
Courte Blande and one brenette, and when she got married
he decided to give her the other half, the Courte Bruin.
So nowadays Coutroti is known through its two sectors, the
Code Blonde sector and the southern part of the applation
and the Cod Bruin sector in the northern parts. So
it's interesting to see, let's say, the interaction in history
(11:11):
through this building and what Kututi is technically today in
terms of its step war and it's its soils for example.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
It's really interesting because I think one of the ones
we tasted with you is the Cote Roti bloon and blonde,
the gig hall that tells the story behind it. It's interesting.
Now the Northern road is known for Sirah, that's the
dominant red, and that's really important distinguishing factor with the
Southern Rhone, which is you know, grenache and marvedra and
(11:46):
seine soul and different blends let's talk to. But within
the Northern Rhone there are different sub appellations, appellations that
specialize in styles of wine which we had the rape
pleasure of tasting when we sat down with you for
a fairly long and extensive tasting in New York. Let's
(12:07):
talk about some of the different wines that I Gygall
produces from those different areas.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
Very good, well, you mentioned the fact that, yes, there's
a there's a king grape in the north, it is
the Sira grape. To be even more precise, we don't
have much choice. We have cis as the red grape.
In the northern room. We have three white grapes that
are Marsin and Russin, but a single one for the
reds And if you think of it, it's a it's
(12:38):
a very well, I should say, such a typical French
approach of producing wines. That is to say, is ermita
San Jose Cira wines? So yes, I will sound very
very French, and I deeply apologize for this. But what
(12:59):
will do the difference between these different wines is of
course the tear. So we have different soils, we have
different exposures, we have different climates microclimates, and of course
we have different practical technical practicals intervenience between let's say
Hermitage and good ROTI for example, and this is what
will make the major differences between a great wine of
(13:24):
Hermitage and a great wine of good Forti. So yes,
we have these small appellations that are extremely tiny appellations,
almost touching each other, but they are as different as
they're clothes in the different landscapes and so on. So
this is the magic of let's say the French viticulture
(13:45):
generally speaking, and.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
Just so our listeners are aware, you actually make wine
from all of these regions that yes, just been talking about.
So you make wine from Chondru, Hermitage, you make a
coat tarn of course as well you going to do
in the southern room, but also the cobro tea, which
is is your home. You make a good amount of
different coco teas as well. And Sanchoseph, which is I
(14:10):
think one of the up and coming.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Yeah, yeah, San Joseph is a fantastic appilation. It's not
as known as kut Roti or Hermitage. But I used
to say often that I would like to be forty
years older than I am, because I don't see any
break or any reason why San Joseph would not reach
let's say, the reputation or the level of the most
(14:34):
well known appellation of the entire round valley. It's it's
a fantastic place with the steep slopes and huge quality potential.
So I think, yes, joseev is the one to bet
on for the future. And and it's an extremely dynamic,
dynamic appilation as well, so I'm very confident for the
for the future of the sipellation.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
That's good to know. We had the chance of visiting
San Joseph David was on an assignment to write about
the region, and it was fascinating as they were trying
to still define what is chef how do we promote
it to the United States because it isn't as well
known as say armitage, and I think there is a
lot of potential. I think what really is striking about
(15:16):
the wines of the Northern Rhon and your wines is
that there's sultry. They have a sultry, velvety, rich earthiness
to them that is so appealing, particularly when you think
about the food of Leon, which I have had the
great pleasure of visiting, and the dishes you touch briefly
(15:37):
on the soil in the area. Let's dive into that
a little bit deeper. Because like you, we reference deep vineyards,
but for our listeners, give us a picture of what
those vineyards look like and the challenges of cultivating vines
in these areas, which takes very specific trellising to do
(15:57):
it correctly.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
Absolutely, So we have the soils that can be quite different,
I would say, generally speaking. So let's talk about the
Rhone Valley itself in the north and the two banks.
So we have a we have a simple landscape on
the left bank with hermitage and crosiamitage hermitage, very steep
slope and a very tiny appellation and crusiermitage the surrounding slopes,
(16:22):
but also some flat venus next to the rural river.
If we can say, the right bank contains all the
other appalations, the white, the reds. That is to say,
it can be country, it can be good Roti, it
can be it can be cornas et cetera. And and
it's mostly, if not entirely, steep vins. The right bank
(16:46):
is a matter of granite, So we have granites almost everywhere.
The exception could be good rot Roti is a kingdom
of sheasts uh and and and that's quite sick. People
for the right bank on the left bank could be
a little bit more complex with let's say, the diversity
(17:06):
of soils in the hermitage, from the granite to the sheets,
to the clay, to the pebbles that you find in
Shanna South, et cetera, and and crazy hermitage on the
flat party is more a story of clay and and
and different let's say, different different structures. But yes, the
northern is tiny. It's it's a small region or sub region.
(17:34):
I remind you that it represents nine of wrong wines
in total. The South is ninety one percent, so most
of the wines are produced in Southern Rurle. But you
mentioned this authenticity, and let's say this this expression of
(17:55):
the Northern r which is extremely typical. You saidiness, I
would say, I would say, yes, authenticity. The Northern rod
c are remarkable for their balance, for their freshness, and
for the quality.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
It's a remarkable difference when you travel. And I suggest
anyone listening to this do that trip from north to south.
And I would do north to south. I think that's
the way you go, because it really does change when
you hit you know, a specific area. Of course, we've
been talking about the surround the reds. But one of
my personal favorite wines is made up in the Northern
(18:33):
Road and at the Condria, So let's talk about that wine,
which is a white only area appellation.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
Yes, Condria is totally dedicated to white wine, so there's
no production of red wines in Kandria. Linked to the
fact that we find the Vionia great only so interestingly,
US is a place where people got interested by the
Vionnier and there are very interesting examples of in the US.
But once again, I think we are a little bit
(19:03):
spoiled with the presence of Vionnier on the soils of
Condrieu for the past two thousand fnd years. So yes,
Condrieu is the birthplace of Vionnier on this planet, if
we can say. And what makes it very special and
truly interesting is the interaction between the vionnier and the
(19:25):
granite that I was mentioning albfore, and the granite soils
of Condrieu are here to bring the balance, to bring
the drinkability, to bring the complexity of the Vionnia grape
on its original soil of Conree So this is something
very unique. Once again, this is also something extremely tiny.
(19:48):
We are talking about a few hundred acres only it
is a very limited production, and.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
It's that's why it's hard to find really great contrios here.
When we find it, we jump on them because they
are the spiciness and I get the tropical notes say
little Apricot is so special and highly recommend it. Let's
see we there was a number of acquisitions I guess
(20:16):
under your father Marcel. We reference Chateau d'An Pui, but
there was also two other domains and chateaus acquired in
two thousand and six and twenty seventeen. Let's talk about
each and how they fit into your overall portfolio, Gigo.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
Yes, let's say we extended our vigneyards gently but surely,
and not exactly slowly. That I joined the winery thirty
years ago, which is not very long time ago. But
when I joined, we were talking about nine actors of
(20:58):
lens that we were owing in northern worl only sorry,
and we have changed or turned this figure into two
hundred and fifty actors of land today with the acquisition
of different properties in northern rule. So we comforted let's
say our position in Metas et cetera. So the Northern
(21:21):
warl But we also quite a fantastic property in twenty
seventeen in Chataunau Dupap. I'm talking about the Chateau the Nalis.
Chateau the Nalis is a jewel in the heart of
the Chatnadupap appellation. Seventy five victors of the very best
land or the very best spots of Chatunav Dupap. And
we are absolutely delighted to produce four wines, two white
(21:46):
wines and two red wines from this property, and they
are truly shining. It's it's a great adventurer. I have
a fantastic team there. I go there every ten days,
and yes, we we are building, let's say, a very
serious and a very solid quality property in Shattering.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
So Shatten of the pop is unique because it can
be made from various permitted grapes and yours talk to
us about your red Shatten of the part.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
As you've just said, Shatton of your Pup is a
unique place where we can work with up to thirteen
different grapes. When I say thirteen, I'm not exactly right.
In reality, it's not thirteen, it's eighteen grapes. So why
do we switch from thirteen to eighteen. It's linked to
the fact that when you talk about greenish, we talk
(22:38):
about a single grape, but there are three colors on
the green ash. You have the greenases blow and the
greenish rouge or noir. That is to say, you should
have you should add two more grapes to the one
used for greenash, so eighteen grapes to produce let's say
two colors the white chat. So this is a very
(23:01):
liberal appellation, linked to the fact that the founder of
the AOOC concept was from Chaton of Dupap and the
very first appela contrally classified has been Shutting of du
Pap in nineteen thirty six. So it's a very liberal.
It's a very easy going let's say rules. It's very
(23:23):
easy going rules in Chatton of Dpap as long as
it stays a quality one idea and of.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Course clarify something for me with Shatton of Depap. So, yes,
there are many permitted grapes. But is there a minimum
that you have to have of any specific grape.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
And because it's a very early decision and a very liberal,
the answer is no. Wow, you can make you can
make a red Shatton of de pap One hundred percent
granache or one hundred percent or one hundred percent moved.
And if you prefer to do one hundred percent renoir,
you can also do it, but there's not enough to
and on the appelation to do this.
Speaker 4 (24:03):
And grenache really is dominant in most places.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yeah, Becauseina you hear that, you think, well, how do
you create a consistency in chateau of when you have
all these varieties? But it all seems to work out
at the end. So we were having dinner at this
past weekend with some friends who are huge wine lovers,
and he said, I've never had a white chataun of pop.
He was fascinated by that. Talk to us about white
(24:29):
chaton of the pop and does it have the same
liberal usage of grapes or is it very specific to
the grapes that you can use in the white.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
So it has exactly the same rules as the as
the reds. That is to say, it is extremely liberal
and you can use all the white grapes of Chatau
and if you wish. So the fact that your friends
never heard about the white chat is not really surprising.
Linked to the fact that the white wines represents let's
(25:01):
say six maybe seven percent of the total production in
chateaua de pap so white chateau of you pap remain
rare wines at Nalise, we feel extremely fortunate to produce
seventeen percent of our production with white wines, so we
are among the biggest producers of white chatting and pap
(25:24):
at the Chateau de Nalise. But it remains something outstanding
and rare diffink and.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
It's really special. Just to give our listeners an idea
of the blend of the Chateau d Nalise we tried,
because we tried two from twenty twenty one to twenty
twenty two. We're talking Roussin garnache, blanc clarette, bourbolonc and
pickpool and that's that blend. We don't know the percentages,
but it's an interesting combination. Like a puzzle to create wine.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
It's a puzzle. And there is another grape that you've
not mentioned, which is let's say my how can you
say this is my magical grape? It is the The
Picardon is a historical grape of chateaulna View pap. About
four years ago we decided to replent alpha Hector of Picardon.
(26:16):
But there were no more available in the nurseries, so
it took a lot of time and energy to go
back to the let's say national or state nurseries, to
multiply the original plans of Picado and replant it again.
It's it's an interesting grape because I think it's it's
perfectly adapted to the climate and especially the climate changes
(26:36):
we see in southern France and the infants generally speaking.
And I am a true believer in the future of Picado.
So there might be two percent today in the blend
of the Chateau de Nalist, but I am very much
convinced that we should grow this grape a little bit
more than it is done today.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Is it ever made as a single over right?
Speaker 3 (27:02):
I know one example of one producer producing one hundred
percent in Chateauga.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Absolutely interesting. And on the flip side, on the red,
we're looking at the tasting notes we have. We tasted
the Chateaudnali shat have to pop twenty nineteen and we're
talking grenache, so raw more ved Kuna was vacara is
and vakarai is is a lesser known red. Is that
when it is that you're pickered on the two love
(27:29):
and red or do you have another red you'd like
to work with, it's lesser name.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
You have the beaks, you have the as well. Let's
say these grapes are there, but at a very very
very small proportion. And if you think of, let's say,
the interesting question of the climate change and the issues
we can have with with with you know, the alcoholque
(27:55):
degree that is always ire and ir in the wines.
It's interesting to go back in time forty or fifty
years ago and realized that these secondary autertiary grapes, the cunas,
the prdon, the we're totally forgotten at the time because
these grapes were not ripening very well and they were
(28:18):
probably showing too much acidity. Forty years later, we want
to lower the alcohie green the wines and get more freshness,
more cidy in the wine. So I think we have
the answer of the global warming and the issues we
can have with the global warming in these grapes that
have been forgotten through the years, but that could be
(28:40):
interesting to use again.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
We're seeing that af throughout France. You know, Bordeaux introduced
more permitted grapes and same and Champagne and it's all
and also probably around the world, but specifically seen it
in France. It's interesting to see where that's going.
Speaker 4 (28:57):
It really is, Philip, Let's talk about something that's interesting
for me as well as the wine. Of course, in
two thousand and three you decided to kind of take
control of the barrels that you use and you started
your own coop ridge. So let's talk about that project
that you initiated, and why was it important to you
to control the barrels from start to finish and how
(29:19):
has it worked for you in the realm of being
able to supply the woods that you need and the
woods that you want and make the wine with those.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
Yes, we studied our own cook bridge in two thousand
and three. It was a very singular and very strange move.
All we're still the only winery in the Interiron Valley
that has its own coupe bridge. It's linked to the
fact that giga wines are known to stay longer than
any other wines in the wrong valley or in fancy
(29:53):
in barrels, so we age our best foot What is
a minimumm of thirty six months to forty months for
a single viniards La Mouline network and done so this
is of course a lot of time in oak, and
it is very important to have a total control of
the quality of these barrels. And you can trust me,
(30:13):
it is as difficult to do a quality barrel as
it is difficult to do a quality wine. So there's
a lot of fields or subjects where the interaction is important,
where the precision is important, where the work and the
decisions are tremendously important for the future of the barrel.
(30:35):
And this is what we try to do for a
bit more than twenty years now. So we select the
forest where we want to work with. We have a
total control on the drawing of the staves, on the toasting,
of course, and we can be extremely picky. We can
be extremely precise on the quality of the barrels that
(30:56):
we use for the longer term aging we apply in
our wine.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Where do you source the wood?
Speaker 3 (31:04):
Where do we source the woods? It's from France only,
so Friends as the largest European oak forests. So there's
a lot of oak trees in France. And if you
think of it with the basic geography of Friends, you
have Paris which is quite in the north, Dijon in
(31:25):
the east, Lyons, Marseille, and on the left Bordeaux. But
what is between these cities, it's it's mostly forests. So
there's a lot of forrests in the center of France,
and we have famous forests such as the foreb Trance
for example. This one is extremely well known and famous
(31:46):
in France because it was originally planted by Colbert. Colbert
was the prime minister of Louis the fourteen and he
planted this forest in order to have let's say dry
good to build bloats, and we still have this famous
for Trance. We don't build wooden boats anymore in France,
(32:08):
but we definitely use this first for the top parls
that are produced in our country. So yes, from France,
and we have, you know, a very sustainable practice, you know,
cutting trees but also replanting many trees in the French forest,
So this is something extremely reliable.
Speaker 5 (32:29):
Sustainability in another sense, yeah, and quality control, which is
really really important these days in the world of wine,
and also just an agricultural in general, because you know,
you're dealing with so many issues and challenges between pests
and mold and climate change.
Speaker 4 (32:49):
And that's an interesting concept too because I've seen a
number of wineries that we've talked to around the world
that have kind of embarked on this barrel program for themselves,
not on the scale to which you do, but a
number of wineries. There's some in Italy that we've talked to.
There's a California wine maker that they make all their
own barrels. It's a very interesting concept.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Well, you want to be able to control the quality
of what you're producing from every aspect of it. So
you know, having your own coop bridge is important.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
Yes, if you think of it. You know, we spend
a lot of time, energy, and we are very precise
in the wine making. If it is just to you know,
place your wines in barrels where you're not totally sure
of the quality and how it's done and how the
wines will involve in these barrels, you're missing something, I believe.
(33:40):
So this is the main reason why we decided to
go through the coop bridge about twenty years ago.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
So Gigle produces a lot of wines. You have a
very extensive portfolio for listeners who just want to, you know,
who may not be as familiar with how many wonderful
wines you produce. What are some wines that you feel
would be and it's hard to select representative that are
in the United States that they should start with and
(34:08):
definitely represent what you feel is the signature of your
family name.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
I feel extremely lucky and I truly enjoy producing a
large scale of wines with a very different prices. And
I am a kut Potea guy, so I live in
northern in the heart of kut Fu Tea and Kutroti
wines are extensive wines, and I would love people who've
(34:35):
never had any wrong wines to start with one of
our top Kutroti La Mulin, for example, for a few
hundred dollars. It's a lot of money, and between you
and I, this is never going to happen this way.
So we produce a wine named the Kutderoon and that
(34:58):
I am extremely proud of of the Giga could Room.
Because this wine is produced at the large scale and
we try to, let's say, place the right price for
a very enjoyable wine. We pay a lot of potential,
a lot of details to these wines because we are
(35:19):
convinced that most of the people who will discover the
wrong valley and the Giga wines for the first time
will discover our winery through the couldron. That is to say,
the producable wine and the less expensive wine. If the
wine is okay, you know what, it's not enough. There
(35:40):
are a lot of okay wines around the world today,
and we definitely want to produce the wines where people
would say, wow, okay, it's not expensive, it's very affordable
and it's good. So maybe the next time it will
want to buy another bottle of this giga couldron, or
(36:02):
put a little bit more money into a crozyamitage or
or gigondas from the Southern Rome. And if he decides
that he likes wrang wines in general, one day he
will have access to a sh or an hermitage. And
of course I wish once in his life, one time
(36:23):
in his life, he will have the opportunity to taste
a bottle of lamouline. But Lamonine is a very small production.
It's iconic wines produced a small, very small scale. The
kuduron is not the couduron is is widely available. It's
it's a wine where we place a lot of a
lot of attention. We pay a lot of attention to
(36:44):
the quality of the Courduron and and I'm glad to
live to live with both words. You know, I need
the could duron to drink every day, and I need
a bottle of lamonine for a special moment in my life.
Definitely not every day.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
And referencing the cot ron, the gigall cot Rone is
under twenty retail. You also have a Gigundos that's reasonable
at under thirty dollars a bottle, and it's a Southern
ron also, yeah, and very very nice. But you know
a lot of people like to buy the label. They
(37:23):
want to be comfortable knowing they're buying into a label
and a legacy. So it's a good gateway to move
into to try more wines.
Speaker 4 (37:33):
Very true. You know your father, who is a wine
educator shut for many many years, for thirty five years
he taught wine and he always said, if you don't
know what to.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
Look for, buy a bottle of coat to run. He did.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
That was like his go to wine every time we
went out for dinner.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
Your father was a very small man.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
And that's why it had this area and the wines
have a very special place in my heart as a
result of that. I could visit over and over again
a and that you can visit. Let's talk about if
people want to come visit Mayson Gigon, what is the hospitality.
I know that's not your you know your specific department,
but where can where can they visit?
Speaker 3 (38:12):
Well, we we we are extremely fortunate to welcome a
lot of visitors. So we have French people of course,
because the country where we sell the most or the
biggest amount of money is friends, so French represent fifty
percent of ourselves and there are a lot of French people,
you know, visiting the winery. But just after Friends, you
(38:33):
have our American customers. And we have a fantastic place,
fantastic cellador called Le Cavo de Chateau in the village
where we live. And we have a dedicated team that
will show people the venias. If they want to, they
can go for a tour and tasting in ourselves as well.
(38:53):
They can organize organized fantastic tastings. And we also have
an interesting museum to show to show people in order
to make them realize that they visit a place where
we grow rapes and make wines for the past two
thousand years. Though we have a very long history, we
have deep route, deep roots if I may say, and
(39:16):
we are very happy to share this, this culture and
this patrimony with our visitors. So yes, always very happy
to welcome people in our place.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
It looks beautiful. The website is the Caveau de Chateau,
and it's thirty minutes from Leon, and that is a
city I so want to go back to. I went
many many years ago on my own, and I would
love to go back with you, David, to really explore Leon.
It's really one of the It is the gastronomic capital
of France, and there's many in my opinion. So let's
(39:50):
talk about family owned and legacy because, as we said
at the beginning of our conversation, many companies, we see
it a lot in the United States these days, or
our play exit plans, and they're selling out to large
companies and venture capitalists. We've seen it in France as
well in Europe. Why is it important to your family
(40:11):
to remain family owned and is it challenging now more
than ever?
Speaker 3 (40:19):
Many people will tell you it's challenging. I don't see this.
I don't see it this way on my side. You know,
first of all, I share this feeling with my dad.
I don't work, I just leave my passion. So it's
not a job, it's a passion. And I believe it's
(40:40):
always easier to share a passion in the family with
the next generation rather than teaching a job. So you know,
my dad never asked me what job I wanted to do,
and very spontaneously I told him I was about ten
years old that I wanted to follow what my grandfather
(41:04):
was doing and what it was doing. And I feel
very fortunate to have boys. Two boys. We have twin
boys with my wife. They are going to turn fourteen
years old, and one of them clearly expresses the fact
that it wants to be an analogist and winemaker, so
we're going to help him to do in this direction.
(41:26):
And the other one wants to work in the family business,
but probably more on let's say the administ administration and
the commercial side of the business. So a lot of
people would say, wow, that's very young, they're only fourteen
years old. But when I think of myself, I knew
exactly at the age what I wanted to do when
(41:47):
I would be older. So you know, it's I think
the strength of the family businesses. We have a very
easy and very transparent relationship between the different generations. And
once again we do a fantastic, fantastic work if it
is work to transmit a passion from one generation to
(42:10):
the other. So, yeah, it's a pleasure to work as
a family.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
That's so reassuring to hear you say that. And as
you talk about your young sons, I think about your
grandfather who started working at age eight and at fourteen
I think you said fourteen he was, you know, working
in the vineyards and establishing a company, you know, following that.
So you know, hard work is part of your family,
but it's not. It's hard fun and passion. So we
(42:42):
just take the word workout call it fun, right, we have,
well we adhere to that as well. You know, when
you're not having fun, what do you enjoy doing other
than the fun your head at work?
Speaker 3 (43:04):
Well, let's say we it stays in the family. But
I feel I married seventeen years ago and I married
a French girl, but I may say an exotic French girl.
So my wife is from Corsica, and Corsica is a
beautiful island in the Militerranan see. And we try to
(43:26):
visit our parents, my parents in law, you know, once
a month, once every two months, and there are a
lot of things to do in Corsica, so you can
enjoy the sea. Of course, you can also enjoy the mountains.
It's a very small island, but they are very rocky
and very high mountains, and I would say staying close
(43:49):
to the nature is something I truly, truly, literruly enjoy,
you know, Melania.
Speaker 4 (43:56):
I hear they make good wine on Corsica too, So
is the next kigole is stake going to be on Corsica.
Speaker 3 (44:01):
I'll be very direct and honest with you. When I
go to Corsica, I leave my brain and my energy
in Opui and I both for pleasure and leisure only,
meaning that the day we will have some visits in Corsica,
I will have to share my passion and my time
(44:23):
between Opui and Corsica. And this is not going to
be easy at all. So let's keep Coica for the
family and for the summer. That's fine. This way, good.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
Answer, good answer. And we haven't been to Corsica, but
it's on our list, so now we know who to visit.
Speaker 3 (44:41):
That's great. If you want special addresses, I got them
all so I can help you.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
That's great. Well, first we're going to come visit you
in a chat and Amison Kovo and and go back
to the Rhad Phelip Gigol. We've really enjoyed speaking with
you today and having you share your family story with
our listeners on the Connected Table. Thank you, Melci.
Speaker 3 (45:07):
David. I had a fantastic time with you as well,
and now that we've talked a lot, I need to
see you in personally our place, so I'm looking forward
to having you.
Speaker 4 (45:17):
Well, it's it's it's on the list, that's for sure.
Speaker 3 (45:19):
It's on.
Speaker 4 (45:20):
It's it's an area that we absolutely love.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
Love, underscored and more. Thank you so much for joining us,
and I hope listeners you're inspired to go out and
try some of the Eggle wines to explore when you
go to France this beautiful area, because it's all about
getting into the area and becoming familiar with where the
wines are made. That will make your passion for the
(45:45):
wines grow even more. And with that, we want to
thank you for listening and remind you, as we always say,
you can visit gigle dot com to learn more and
follow them. Thank you Vintus the Importer and as always
we like to say at the end of every show,
enjoy life, have fun, work hard, but have more fun
(46:07):
and always stay in Say she'll be curious.
Speaker 3 (46:09):
Thank you,
The topics and opinions expressed in the following show are
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make no recommendations or endorsements for radio show programs, services,
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(00:21):
W FOURCY Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Welcome to the Connected Table Live. We're your hosts, Melanie
Young and David Ransom. You're insatiably curious culinary couple. We
enjoy bringing you the dynamic people who are front and
center and behind the scenes in wine, food, spirits and
hospitality around the world. Oh, taking you to those places
(01:01):
and do we enjoy visiting them right?
Speaker 3 (01:03):
David, Sure do?
Speaker 4 (01:04):
Melanie always a joy to travel and experience new places
and things, new wines, new food, new people.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Well, we are going to take you today to a
place in France that we absolutely love, to a very
storied winery and family. We're taking you to the Coute
Latis of the Rhone Valley, which is probably one of
the most striking landscapes in France, right, it's really one.
Speaker 4 (01:29):
Of the most beautiful areas in the Rhone. Southern Ruin
is wide and flat, the northern Roon, which is where
Cocrotea is based, is steep and narrow, and it's just
a stunning vista.
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Yeah, we've been up on those vineyards and they are
steep and terraced. And along the way as you drive
you'll see signs of some of the famous wine producers,
and one of them is E Gigal Masson. Gigall was
founded in nineteen four, three generations and it's family owned.
(02:04):
In a time when many family wineries are not family owned,
this one is proud to be and joining us is
the third generation in charge of the family property in
a state and the winemaker charge of all viticultural detail,
Philippe Gigall, who we had the chance to meet while
we were in New York and taste an amazing selection
(02:27):
of wines with his importer Vintis, and he joins us
today on the Connected Table live from France. Welcome, thank
you very.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
Much, very nice to talk with you and h happy
with you. Melanie David Pleasure.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Well, it was a pleasure to meet you and we
cannot wait to come to visit you in France. The
family has an amazing story. Think about nineteen forty six,
what France was like in nineteen forty six when your
grandfather started. Maysoon gig all talk to us about him
and his background and his story, because it's one of
(03:05):
survival and determination and vision.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
Yes, my grandfather was a very special character. He started
to physically work at a very young age. He was
eighty years old when he first worked for himself and
started to work for his living. So he had a
very hard and difficult childhood. He joins the small village
(03:30):
where we live today on pu at a very young age.
He was fourteen years old, working in the vinyards first
then the sellers, and this is where he acquite his
strong knowledge and experience on the crazy slopes of kut
Roti that you just mentioned. So he started Gigau the
first of January nineteen forty six with already a strong experience,
(03:54):
and both my dad and I are extremely grateful to
my grandfather tremendous work, having studied the winery at a
difficult time. As you said, nineteen forty six, friends, was
in a very bad state after World War two, and
people were not thinking of drinking fancy and the expensive
(04:14):
wines that were thinking of eating. So let's say, the
beginning of the winery has been tricky, difficult, but my
grandfather always stayed extremely focused in quality and my dad
joined him in the sixties and they both, let's say,
built the winery with a strong base, a.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Very strong base. You know, I think about nineteen forty six,
and you said it was hard. It was post war,
and yes, people were thinking about surviving and eating and
feeding their families. But wine historically has also provided for families.
Wine was the safer option to drink at the time
when water was questionable, and it provided to be a
(04:58):
commodity in terms of internet national trade because people drank
and people started drinking even more after the war. What
are some things that your grandfather Ettien taught you? What
did you learn from him?
Speaker 3 (05:14):
You know, my grandfather was a very hard worker, so
it was a physical worker and once again he's done
a tremendous work on the slopes of Kutoti, in the
cellars and literally in all the technical fields. I joined
the winery about thirty years ago, and my dad, let's say,
(05:35):
developed the winery with let's say more more prospective, more
vision of what we could do, what we could achieve
in our own region, that is to say, the Room
Valley bit from north to south, et cetera. So they
were complimentary, they were different charactors. My grandfather, you know,
(05:59):
almost came killed himself, working very hard. My dad is
eighty one now, still working very hard, but he's in
love with his office, for example, so he has a
lot of time in the office, and I try to
mix both. I try to be in the vignids, I
try to be in the sellers, and of course I
have to be in the office. So let's say each
(06:21):
generation brings its own stone to the family story.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
You know, it's interesting, Melanie that ATM ended up making
sixty seven vintages in the Rown Valley, and your father
Marcel is getting close to that himself. He's probably done
at least sixty vintages himself, exactly.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
He's celebrated his sixty fourth vitage this year. So I'm
extremely proud of my dad. And yes, we always joke saying, okay,
at least three more vintages. It's the minimum you can
do in order to keep back grandfather's record. Yes, my
dad is very impressive. That is age.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Absolutely, that's impressive, it really is. Well, let's talk to
us about where you're located. For our listeners who may
not have had the opportunity to visit the co Roti
in the Northern Rhone, let's distinguish it first of all,
where it's located in France, and how the Northern Rhone
is different from the southernone. David touched on briefly the geography,
(07:24):
but let's dive deeper because it's so different in terms
of what has grown and produced, so the winer.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
And where we live. That is to say, the small
village of Ampui is the heart of kut Foti, and
Kutfoti being the northern appellation of the entire room value.
So just keep in mind that we are only twenty
five minutes south of Leon. Leon is the second largest
city in France. Of course, for the US, it's a
(07:54):
small city. We're talking about one million and habitant only,
but it's the second larger. And it's interesting to understand
and realize that Lyon is well known in our own country,
but also in Europe and in the world for the food,
so it's a real temple of astronomy in France. And
(08:16):
I used to say that the small village where I
live on Pui is in the countryside and in the
middle of nowhere, so it's really the French countryside. But interestingly,
if you draw a circle of fifty kilometers only around
this small village, you will find thirty seven Mission Star restaurants.
(08:37):
So this is something that is very impressive because it's
a very impressive figure, and it's a region. It's a
place where I live well known for good food but
also good wine. So this is the northern part of
the Rhone Valley and we of course interact every day
with the southern part. I would mention Shadon of Depak
(08:58):
being the king appalation of the south, and I go
to Chatnapa almost every week, I would say every ten
days maximum, And it's a one hour and a half
drive south, so it's it's not very far our way.
It's a long region from north to south. It's all
together maybe two hours two hours and a half. But
it's definitely the same, the same wine region, that is
(09:21):
to say the wrong value, but.
Speaker 2 (09:23):
So different in so many ways, including the grapes I
used to make the wine. Let's talk about the Cote Roti.
And we also want to know that Ampui is known
for its apricots, which is very very good. We've been
to Ampui and we had those apricots. It's quite fabulous.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
In July, it's it's a delight. Yes, we produce another.
Speaker 2 (09:47):
Yes, small fact and the centerpiece for your family is
Chateau d'ampui, which was acquired in nineteen ninety five. Tell
us a story of Chateau Dampui and the signif again
in this area.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
Chatelepi is the local castle of this village. It's a
very interesting building. It's a listed monument, so it's classified
as a French historical monument, and it's dating back the
early sixteenth century, so it's a piece of history. And
let's say the building itself, the shuttle dope, is directly
(10:24):
linked to the history of our appalation, Coute Roti. If
you open a book mentioning Courte Roti, you will quickly
read an interesting legend. And the legend says that at
the sixteenth century time, the owner of this castle was
the Marquis de mos Geron would have had two daughters,
one blonde hair girl, and when she got married, it
(10:48):
decided to give her a half of his vinea, the
Courte Blande and one brenette, and when she got married
he decided to give her the other half, the Courte Bruin.
So nowadays Coutroti is known through its two sectors, the
Code Blonde sector and the southern part of the applation
and the Cod Bruin sector in the northern parts. So
it's interesting to see, let's say, the interaction in history
(11:11):
through this building and what Kututi is technically today in
terms of its step war and it's its soils for example.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
It's really interesting because I think one of the ones
we tasted with you is the Cote Roti bloon and blonde,
the gig hall that tells the story behind it. It's interesting.
Now the Northern road is known for Sirah, that's the
dominant red, and that's really important distinguishing factor with the
Southern Rhone, which is you know, grenache and marvedra and
(11:46):
seine soul and different blends let's talk to. But within
the Northern Rhone there are different sub appellations, appellations that
specialize in styles of wine which we had the rape
pleasure of tasting when we sat down with you for
a fairly long and extensive tasting in New York. Let's
(12:07):
talk about some of the different wines that I Gygall
produces from those different areas.
Speaker 3 (12:17):
Very good, well, you mentioned the fact that, yes, there's
a there's a king grape in the north, it is
the Sira grape. To be even more precise, we don't
have much choice. We have cis as the red grape.
In the northern room. We have three white grapes that
are Marsin and Russin, but a single one for the
reds And if you think of it, it's a it's
(12:38):
a very well, I should say, such a typical French
approach of producing wines. That is to say, is ermita
San Jose Cira wines? So yes, I will sound very
very French, and I deeply apologize for this. But what
(12:59):
will do the difference between these different wines is of
course the tear. So we have different soils, we have
different exposures, we have different climates microclimates, and of course
we have different practical technical practicals intervenience between let's say
Hermitage and good ROTI for example, and this is what
will make the major differences between a great wine of
(13:24):
Hermitage and a great wine of good Forti. So yes,
we have these small appellations that are extremely tiny appellations,
almost touching each other, but they are as different as
they're clothes in the different landscapes and so on. So
this is the magic of let's say the French viticulture
(13:45):
generally speaking, and.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
Just so our listeners are aware, you actually make wine
from all of these regions that yes, just been talking about.
So you make wine from Chondru, Hermitage, you make a
coat tarn of course as well you going to do
in the southern room, but also the cobro tea, which
is is your home. You make a good amount of
different coco teas as well. And Sanchoseph, which is I
(14:10):
think one of the up and coming.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Yeah, yeah, San Joseph is a fantastic appilation. It's not
as known as kut Roti or Hermitage. But I used
to say often that I would like to be forty
years older than I am, because I don't see any
break or any reason why San Joseph would not reach
let's say, the reputation or the level of the most
(14:34):
well known appellation of the entire round valley. It's it's
a fantastic place with the steep slopes and huge quality potential.
So I think, yes, joseev is the one to bet
on for the future. And and it's an extremely dynamic,
dynamic appilation as well, so I'm very confident for the
for the future of the sipellation.
Speaker 2 (14:55):
That's good to know. We had the chance of visiting
San Joseph David was on an assignment to write about
the region, and it was fascinating as they were trying
to still define what is chef how do we promote
it to the United States because it isn't as well
known as say armitage, and I think there is a
lot of potential. I think what really is striking about
(15:16):
the wines of the Northern Rhon and your wines is
that there's sultry. They have a sultry, velvety, rich earthiness
to them that is so appealing, particularly when you think
about the food of Leon, which I have had the
great pleasure of visiting, and the dishes you touch briefly
(15:37):
on the soil in the area. Let's dive into that
a little bit deeper. Because like you, we reference deep vineyards,
but for our listeners, give us a picture of what
those vineyards look like and the challenges of cultivating vines
in these areas, which takes very specific trellising to do
(15:57):
it correctly.
Speaker 3 (15:59):
Absolutely, So we have the soils that can be quite different,
I would say, generally speaking. So let's talk about the
Rhone Valley itself in the north and the two banks.
So we have a we have a simple landscape on
the left bank with hermitage and crosiamitage hermitage, very steep
slope and a very tiny appellation and crusiermitage the surrounding slopes,
(16:22):
but also some flat venus next to the rural river.
If we can say, the right bank contains all the
other appalations, the white, the reds. That is to say,
it can be country, it can be good Roti, it
can be it can be cornas et cetera. And and
it's mostly, if not entirely, steep vins. The right bank
(16:46):
is a matter of granite, So we have granites almost everywhere.
The exception could be good rot Roti is a kingdom
of sheasts uh and and and that's quite sick. People
for the right bank on the left bank could be
a little bit more complex with let's say, the diversity
(17:06):
of soils in the hermitage, from the granite to the sheets,
to the clay, to the pebbles that you find in
Shanna South, et cetera, and and crazy hermitage on the
flat party is more a story of clay and and
and different let's say, different different structures. But yes, the
northern is tiny. It's it's a small region or sub region.
(17:34):
I remind you that it represents nine of wrong wines
in total. The South is ninety one percent, so most
of the wines are produced in Southern Rurle. But you
mentioned this authenticity, and let's say this this expression of
(17:55):
the Northern r which is extremely typical. You saidiness, I
would say, I would say, yes, authenticity. The Northern rod
c are remarkable for their balance, for their freshness, and
for the quality.
Speaker 2 (18:13):
It's a remarkable difference when you travel. And I suggest
anyone listening to this do that trip from north to south.
And I would do north to south. I think that's
the way you go, because it really does change when
you hit you know, a specific area. Of course, we've
been talking about the surround the reds. But one of
my personal favorite wines is made up in the Northern
(18:33):
Road and at the Condria, So let's talk about that wine,
which is a white only area appellation.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
Yes, Condria is totally dedicated to white wine, so there's
no production of red wines in Kandria. Linked to the
fact that we find the Vionia great only so interestingly,
US is a place where people got interested by the
Vionnier and there are very interesting examples of in the US.
But once again, I think we are a little bit
(19:03):
spoiled with the presence of Vionnier on the soils of
Condrieu for the past two thousand fnd years. So yes,
Condrieu is the birthplace of Vionnier on this planet, if
we can say. And what makes it very special and
truly interesting is the interaction between the vionnier and the
(19:25):
granite that I was mentioning albfore, and the granite soils
of Condrieu are here to bring the balance, to bring
the drinkability, to bring the complexity of the Vionnia grape
on its original soil of Conree So this is something
very unique. Once again, this is also something extremely tiny.
(19:48):
We are talking about a few hundred acres only it
is a very limited production, and.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
It's that's why it's hard to find really great contrios here.
When we find it, we jump on them because they
are the spiciness and I get the tropical notes say
little Apricot is so special and highly recommend it. Let's
see we there was a number of acquisitions I guess
(20:16):
under your father Marcel. We reference Chateau d'An Pui, but
there was also two other domains and chateaus acquired in
two thousand and six and twenty seventeen. Let's talk about
each and how they fit into your overall portfolio, Gigo.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
Yes, let's say we extended our vigneyards gently but surely,
and not exactly slowly. That I joined the winery thirty
years ago, which is not very long time ago. But
when I joined, we were talking about nine actors of
(20:58):
lens that we were owing in northern worl only sorry,
and we have changed or turned this figure into two
hundred and fifty actors of land today with the acquisition
of different properties in northern rule. So we comforted let's
say our position in Metas et cetera. So the Northern
(21:21):
warl But we also quite a fantastic property in twenty
seventeen in Chataunau Dupap. I'm talking about the Chateau the Nalis.
Chateau the Nalis is a jewel in the heart of
the Chatnadupap appellation. Seventy five victors of the very best
land or the very best spots of Chatunav Dupap. And
we are absolutely delighted to produce four wines, two white
(21:46):
wines and two red wines from this property, and they
are truly shining. It's it's a great adventurer. I have
a fantastic team there. I go there every ten days,
and yes, we we are building, let's say, a very
serious and a very solid quality property in Shattering.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
So Shatten of the pop is unique because it can
be made from various permitted grapes and yours talk to
us about your red Shatten of the part.
Speaker 3 (22:16):
As you've just said, Shatton of your Pup is a
unique place where we can work with up to thirteen
different grapes. When I say thirteen, I'm not exactly right.
In reality, it's not thirteen, it's eighteen grapes. So why
do we switch from thirteen to eighteen. It's linked to
the fact that when you talk about greenish, we talk
(22:38):
about a single grape, but there are three colors on
the green ash. You have the greenases blow and the
greenish rouge or noir. That is to say, you should
have you should add two more grapes to the one
used for greenash, so eighteen grapes to produce let's say
two colors the white chat. So this is a very
(23:01):
liberal appellation, linked to the fact that the founder of
the AOOC concept was from Chaton of Dupap and the
very first appela contrally classified has been Shutting of du
Pap in nineteen thirty six. So it's a very liberal.
It's a very easy going let's say rules. It's very
(23:23):
easy going rules in Chatton of Dpap as long as
it stays a quality one idea and of.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Course clarify something for me with Shatton of Depap. So, yes,
there are many permitted grapes. But is there a minimum
that you have to have of any specific grape.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
And because it's a very early decision and a very liberal,
the answer is no. Wow, you can make you can
make a red Shatton of de pap One hundred percent
granache or one hundred percent or one hundred percent moved.
And if you prefer to do one hundred percent renoir,
you can also do it, but there's not enough to
and on the appelation to do this.
Speaker 4 (24:03):
And grenache really is dominant in most places.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
Yeah, Becauseina you hear that, you think, well, how do
you create a consistency in chateau of when you have
all these varieties? But it all seems to work out
at the end. So we were having dinner at this
past weekend with some friends who are huge wine lovers,
and he said, I've never had a white chataun of pop.
He was fascinated by that. Talk to us about white
(24:29):
chaton of the pop and does it have the same
liberal usage of grapes or is it very specific to
the grapes that you can use in the white.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
So it has exactly the same rules as the as
the reds. That is to say, it is extremely liberal
and you can use all the white grapes of Chatau
and if you wish. So the fact that your friends
never heard about the white chat is not really surprising.
Linked to the fact that the white wines represents let's
(25:01):
say six maybe seven percent of the total production in
chateaua de pap so white chateau of you pap remain
rare wines at Nalise, we feel extremely fortunate to produce
seventeen percent of our production with white wines, so we
are among the biggest producers of white chatting and pap
(25:24):
at the Chateau de Nalise. But it remains something outstanding
and rare diffink and.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
It's really special. Just to give our listeners an idea
of the blend of the Chateau d Nalise we tried,
because we tried two from twenty twenty one to twenty
twenty two. We're talking Roussin garnache, blanc clarette, bourbolonc and
pickpool and that's that blend. We don't know the percentages,
but it's an interesting combination. Like a puzzle to create wine.
Speaker 3 (25:54):
It's a puzzle. And there is another grape that you've
not mentioned, which is let's say my how can you
say this is my magical grape? It is the The
Picardon is a historical grape of chateaulna View pap. About
four years ago we decided to replent alpha Hector of Picardon.
(26:16):
But there were no more available in the nurseries, so
it took a lot of time and energy to go
back to the let's say national or state nurseries, to
multiply the original plans of Picado and replant it again.
It's it's an interesting grape because I think it's it's
perfectly adapted to the climate and especially the climate changes
(26:36):
we see in southern France and the infants generally speaking.
And I am a true believer in the future of Picado.
So there might be two percent today in the blend
of the Chateau de Nalist, but I am very much
convinced that we should grow this grape a little bit
more than it is done today.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Is it ever made as a single over right?
Speaker 3 (27:02):
I know one example of one producer producing one hundred
percent in Chateauga.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
Absolutely interesting. And on the flip side, on the red,
we're looking at the tasting notes we have. We tasted
the Chateaudnali shat have to pop twenty nineteen and we're
talking grenache, so raw more ved Kuna was vacara is
and vakarai is is a lesser known red. Is that
when it is that you're pickered on the two love
(27:29):
and red or do you have another red you'd like
to work with, it's lesser name.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
You have the beaks, you have the as well. Let's
say these grapes are there, but at a very very
very small proportion. And if you think of, let's say,
the interesting question of the climate change and the issues
we can have with with with you know, the alcoholque
(27:55):
degree that is always ire and ir in the wines.
It's interesting to go back in time forty or fifty
years ago and realized that these secondary autertiary grapes, the cunas,
the prdon, the we're totally forgotten at the time because
these grapes were not ripening very well and they were
(28:18):
probably showing too much acidity. Forty years later, we want
to lower the alcohie green the wines and get more freshness,
more cidy in the wine. So I think we have
the answer of the global warming and the issues we
can have with the global warming in these grapes that
have been forgotten through the years, but that could be
(28:40):
interesting to use again.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
We're seeing that af throughout France. You know, Bordeaux introduced
more permitted grapes and same and Champagne and it's all
and also probably around the world, but specifically seen it
in France. It's interesting to see where that's going.
Speaker 4 (28:57):
It really is, Philip, Let's talk about something that's interesting
for me as well as the wine. Of course, in
two thousand and three you decided to kind of take
control of the barrels that you use and you started
your own coop ridge. So let's talk about that project
that you initiated, and why was it important to you
to control the barrels from start to finish and how
(29:19):
has it worked for you in the realm of being
able to supply the woods that you need and the
woods that you want and make the wine with those.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
Yes, we studied our own cook bridge in two thousand
and three. It was a very singular and very strange move.
All we're still the only winery in the Interiron Valley
that has its own coupe bridge. It's linked to the
fact that giga wines are known to stay longer than
any other wines in the wrong valley or in fancy
(29:53):
in barrels, so we age our best foot What is
a minimumm of thirty six months to forty months for
a single viniards La Mouline network and done so this
is of course a lot of time in oak, and
it is very important to have a total control of
the quality of these barrels. And you can trust me,
(30:13):
it is as difficult to do a quality barrel as
it is difficult to do a quality wine. So there's
a lot of fields or subjects where the interaction is important,
where the precision is important, where the work and the
decisions are tremendously important for the future of the barrel.
(30:35):
And this is what we try to do for a
bit more than twenty years now. So we select the
forest where we want to work with. We have a
total control on the drawing of the staves, on the toasting,
of course, and we can be extremely picky. We can
be extremely precise on the quality of the barrels that
(30:56):
we use for the longer term aging we apply in
our wine.
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Where do you source the wood?
Speaker 3 (31:04):
Where do we source the woods? It's from France only,
so Friends as the largest European oak forests. So there's
a lot of oak trees in France. And if you
think of it with the basic geography of Friends, you
have Paris which is quite in the north, Dijon in
(31:25):
the east, Lyons, Marseille, and on the left Bordeaux. But
what is between these cities, it's it's mostly forests. So
there's a lot of forrests in the center of France,
and we have famous forests such as the foreb Trance
for example. This one is extremely well known and famous
(31:46):
in France because it was originally planted by Colbert. Colbert
was the prime minister of Louis the fourteen and he
planted this forest in order to have let's say dry
good to build bloats, and we still have this famous
for Trance. We don't build wooden boats anymore in France,
(32:08):
but we definitely use this first for the top parls
that are produced in our country. So yes, from France,
and we have, you know, a very sustainable practice, you know,
cutting trees but also replanting many trees in the French forest,
So this is something extremely reliable.
Speaker 5 (32:29):
Sustainability in another sense, yeah, and quality control, which is
really really important these days in the world of wine,
and also just an agricultural in general, because you know,
you're dealing with so many issues and challenges between pests
and mold and climate change.
Speaker 4 (32:49):
And that's an interesting concept too because I've seen a
number of wineries that we've talked to around the world
that have kind of embarked on this barrel program for themselves,
not on the scale to which you do, but a
number of wineries. There's some in Italy that we've talked to.
There's a California wine maker that they make all their
own barrels. It's a very interesting concept.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Well, you want to be able to control the quality
of what you're producing from every aspect of it. So
you know, having your own coop bridge is important.
Speaker 3 (33:17):
Yes, if you think of it. You know, we spend
a lot of time, energy, and we are very precise
in the wine making. If it is just to you know,
place your wines in barrels where you're not totally sure
of the quality and how it's done and how the
wines will involve in these barrels, you're missing something, I believe.
(33:40):
So this is the main reason why we decided to
go through the coop bridge about twenty years ago.
Speaker 2 (33:46):
So Gigle produces a lot of wines. You have a
very extensive portfolio for listeners who just want to, you know,
who may not be as familiar with how many wonderful
wines you produce. What are some wines that you feel
would be and it's hard to select representative that are
in the United States that they should start with and
(34:08):
definitely represent what you feel is the signature of your
family name.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
I feel extremely lucky and I truly enjoy producing a
large scale of wines with a very different prices. And
I am a kut Potea guy, so I live in
northern in the heart of kut Fu Tea and Kutroti
wines are extensive wines, and I would love people who've
(34:35):
never had any wrong wines to start with one of
our top Kutroti La Mulin, for example, for a few
hundred dollars. It's a lot of money, and between you
and I, this is never going to happen this way.
So we produce a wine named the Kutderoon and that
(34:58):
I am extremely proud of of the Giga could Room.
Because this wine is produced at the large scale and
we try to, let's say, place the right price for
a very enjoyable wine. We pay a lot of potential,
a lot of details to these wines because we are
(35:19):
convinced that most of the people who will discover the
wrong valley and the Giga wines for the first time
will discover our winery through the couldron. That is to say,
the producable wine and the less expensive wine. If the
wine is okay, you know what, it's not enough. There
(35:40):
are a lot of okay wines around the world today,
and we definitely want to produce the wines where people
would say, wow, okay, it's not expensive, it's very affordable
and it's good. So maybe the next time it will
want to buy another bottle of this giga couldron, or
(36:02):
put a little bit more money into a crozyamitage or
or gigondas from the Southern Rome. And if he decides
that he likes wrang wines in general, one day he
will have access to a sh or an hermitage. And
of course I wish once in his life, one time
(36:23):
in his life, he will have the opportunity to taste
a bottle of lamouline. But Lamonine is a very small production.
It's iconic wines produced a small, very small scale. The
kuduron is not the couduron is is widely available. It's
it's a wine where we place a lot of a
lot of attention. We pay a lot of attention to
(36:44):
the quality of the Courduron and and I'm glad to
live to live with both words. You know, I need
the could duron to drink every day, and I need
a bottle of lamonine for a special moment in my life.
Definitely not every day.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
And referencing the cot ron, the gigall cot Rone is
under twenty retail. You also have a Gigundos that's reasonable
at under thirty dollars a bottle, and it's a Southern
ron also, yeah, and very very nice. But you know
a lot of people like to buy the label. They
(37:23):
want to be comfortable knowing they're buying into a label
and a legacy. So it's a good gateway to move
into to try more wines.
Speaker 4 (37:33):
Very true. You know your father, who is a wine
educator shut for many many years, for thirty five years
he taught wine and he always said, if you don't
know what to.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
Look for, buy a bottle of coat to run. He did.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
That was like his go to wine every time we
went out for dinner.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
Your father was a very small man.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
And that's why it had this area and the wines
have a very special place in my heart as a
result of that. I could visit over and over again
a and that you can visit. Let's talk about if
people want to come visit Mayson Gigon, what is the hospitality.
I know that's not your you know your specific department,
but where can where can they visit?
Speaker 3 (38:12):
Well, we we we are extremely fortunate to welcome a
lot of visitors. So we have French people of course,
because the country where we sell the most or the
biggest amount of money is friends, so French represent fifty
percent of ourselves and there are a lot of French people,
you know, visiting the winery. But just after Friends, you
(38:33):
have our American customers. And we have a fantastic place,
fantastic cellador called Le Cavo de Chateau in the village
where we live. And we have a dedicated team that
will show people the venias. If they want to, they
can go for a tour and tasting in ourselves as well.
(38:53):
They can organize organized fantastic tastings. And we also have
an interesting museum to show to show people in order
to make them realize that they visit a place where
we grow rapes and make wines for the past two
thousand years. Though we have a very long history, we
have deep route, deep roots if I may say, and
(39:16):
we are very happy to share this, this culture and
this patrimony with our visitors. So yes, always very happy
to welcome people in our place.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
It looks beautiful. The website is the Caveau de Chateau,
and it's thirty minutes from Leon, and that is a
city I so want to go back to. I went
many many years ago on my own, and I would
love to go back with you, David, to really explore Leon.
It's really one of the It is the gastronomic capital
of France, and there's many in my opinion. So let's
(39:50):
talk about family owned and legacy because, as we said
at the beginning of our conversation, many companies, we see
it a lot in the United States these days, or
our play exit plans, and they're selling out to large
companies and venture capitalists. We've seen it in France as
well in Europe. Why is it important to your family
(40:11):
to remain family owned and is it challenging now more
than ever?
Speaker 3 (40:19):
Many people will tell you it's challenging. I don't see this.
I don't see it this way on my side. You know,
first of all, I share this feeling with my dad.
I don't work, I just leave my passion. So it's
not a job, it's a passion. And I believe it's
(40:40):
always easier to share a passion in the family with
the next generation rather than teaching a job. So you know,
my dad never asked me what job I wanted to do,
and very spontaneously I told him I was about ten
years old that I wanted to follow what my grandfather
(41:04):
was doing and what it was doing. And I feel
very fortunate to have boys. Two boys. We have twin
boys with my wife. They are going to turn fourteen
years old, and one of them clearly expresses the fact
that it wants to be an analogist and winemaker, so
we're going to help him to do in this direction.
(41:26):
And the other one wants to work in the family business,
but probably more on let's say the administ administration and
the commercial side of the business. So a lot of
people would say, wow, that's very young, they're only fourteen
years old. But when I think of myself, I knew
exactly at the age what I wanted to do when
(41:47):
I would be older. So you know, it's I think
the strength of the family businesses. We have a very
easy and very transparent relationship between the different generations. And
once again we do a fantastic, fantastic work if it
is work to transmit a passion from one generation to
(42:10):
the other. So, yeah, it's a pleasure to work as
a family.
Speaker 2 (42:17):
That's so reassuring to hear you say that. And as
you talk about your young sons, I think about your
grandfather who started working at age eight and at fourteen
I think you said fourteen he was, you know, working
in the vineyards and establishing a company, you know, following that.
So you know, hard work is part of your family,
but it's not. It's hard fun and passion. So we
(42:42):
just take the word workout call it fun, right, we have,
well we adhere to that as well. You know, when
you're not having fun, what do you enjoy doing other
than the fun your head at work?
Speaker 3 (43:04):
Well, let's say we it stays in the family. But
I feel I married seventeen years ago and I married
a French girl, but I may say an exotic French girl.
So my wife is from Corsica, and Corsica is a
beautiful island in the Militerranan see. And we try to
(43:26):
visit our parents, my parents in law, you know, once
a month, once every two months, and there are a
lot of things to do in Corsica, so you can
enjoy the sea. Of course, you can also enjoy the mountains.
It's a very small island, but they are very rocky
and very high mountains, and I would say staying close
(43:49):
to the nature is something I truly, truly, literruly enjoy,
you know, Melania.
Speaker 4 (43:56):
I hear they make good wine on Corsica too, So
is the next kigole is stake going to be on Corsica.
Speaker 3 (44:01):
I'll be very direct and honest with you. When I
go to Corsica, I leave my brain and my energy
in Opui and I both for pleasure and leisure only,
meaning that the day we will have some visits in Corsica,
I will have to share my passion and my time
(44:23):
between Opui and Corsica. And this is not going to
be easy at all. So let's keep Coica for the
family and for the summer. That's fine. This way, good.
Speaker 2 (44:33):
Answer, good answer. And we haven't been to Corsica, but
it's on our list, so now we know who to visit.
Speaker 3 (44:41):
That's great. If you want special addresses, I got them
all so I can help you.
Speaker 2 (44:46):
That's great. Well, first we're going to come visit you
in a chat and Amison Kovo and and go back
to the Rhad Phelip Gigol. We've really enjoyed speaking with
you today and having you share your family story with
our listeners on the Connected Table. Thank you, Melci.
Speaker 3 (45:07):
David. I had a fantastic time with you as well,
and now that we've talked a lot, I need to
see you in personally our place, so I'm looking forward
to having you.
Speaker 4 (45:17):
Well, it's it's it's on the list, that's for sure.
Speaker 3 (45:19):
It's on.
Speaker 4 (45:20):
It's it's an area that we absolutely love.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
Love, underscored and more. Thank you so much for joining us,
and I hope listeners you're inspired to go out and
try some of the Eggle wines to explore when you
go to France this beautiful area, because it's all about
getting into the area and becoming familiar with where the
wines are made. That will make your passion for the
(45:45):
wines grow even more. And with that, we want to
thank you for listening and remind you, as we always say,
you can visit gigle dot com to learn more and
follow them. Thank you Vintus the Importer and as always
we like to say at the end of every show,
enjoy life, have fun, work hard, but have more fun
(46:07):
and always stay in Say she'll be curious.
Speaker 3 (46:09):
Thank you,
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