May 3, 2023 • 49 mins
Located in the northwest border of Montefalco, Tenuta Di Saragano produces classic DOCG Montefalco Sagrantino, DOC Montefalco Rosso, DOC Trebbiano Spoletino and Sagrantino Passito wines (and more). This expansive winery has been under the ownership of the Pongelli-Benedettone family since the 15th century. The family started bottling wines in 1921; the cellar still has some 1921 bottles. Guglielmo Pongelli-Benedettone, 32nd generation family member, discusses the estate's history and wines.
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The Connected Table Radio Show is broadcast on W4CY Radio (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com).
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W FORCY Radio. Welcome to theConnected Table Live. We're your hosts,
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Melanie Young and David Ransom. You'reinsatiably curious culinary couple. We enjoy taking
you to meet the people we meetaround the world who are leaders in wine,
food, spirits, and hospitality,and we enjoy sharing their stories and
their wines and their foods with youor listeners. Today we are taking you
to Umbria, and specifically to Montefalco, a very beautiful and historic winemaking region
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that is the only landlocked wine regionin Italy. Right, David Well,
Umbria is the only landlocked region regionin the peninsula of Italy exactly, and
it's called Green Italy, a beautifulplace. We've been there now a couple
of times, Melanie and we justgot back the other day from a week
there to celebrate Antiprima. Sagrentino andMontefalco is Antiprema. So it's the preview
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of the new vintage of the winesthat come out of that region. And
it was really just a delightful tripwhich was named five Store pronounced five store.
So one of the great things aboutthis trip and this specific Entrepremia,
because we've been to many, isthat we were given the option to visit
many, many wineries, like morethan normal. I think about three days
of winery visits, which were forus are really great because that's how we
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find stories to share with you,our listeners. And David and I actually
split up. We did different itinerariesdeliberately, right absolutely and yeah, Divine
and Conquer, but we also wentto the same wineries but on different days.
And our guest today is one ofthe wineries we visited that left a
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very deep impression and has a greatstory. First, I'm going to set
it up this way. We're takingyou back thirty two generations. Just think
about that, thirty two generations.You know, we love to interview families.
This is thirty two generations, goingback to really the early days of
Italy the twelfth century, and thefamily is one of the oldest noble families
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of Italy. It's the Pongelli Benedettonifamily. It's actually two families, the
Pongellis and the Benedettoni's. And joiningus as we says thirty second family member
of the winery to Nuta di Sarragonais Guiliemo Pungelli Benedettoni. Welcome, Ben
Thenudo, Hi, Hi, thanksfor having me. It's a pleasure to
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be part of this show. Well, we had the pleasure of both spending
time with you. You go byin the English William, which will do
this, and you both gave usamazing tours. Let's start with your family.
You got a tour, Melanie.I didn't get a tour. Yes,
you did as too on a hilaris. David posted it on actual Instagram.
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Actually, if you remember, Iactually told them to give you a
tell you different stories than they toldme, just stories could mix it up
absolutely well. I was worrying aboutthat. Actually, you know, remember
you. I was like, oh, my god, because Melanie was supposed
to come after you. Oh mygod, I need to make sure I'm
going to say the same thing toher. Right. It was a great
tour, and you're a wonderful tourguide. You are your father, You
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work with your father, and youalso live in Bordeaux where you're honing your
skills and your work with your father, who lives in a turret with a
tower on the property. Tell usabout your family. First of all,
it is back. It has avery interesting history in Italy. Well,
yeah, so I mean my family. I mean, as you can see,
my last name is basically it's twolast names that merged to its two
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families that merged together. They managedto merge together actually in the fifteenth century.
But the oldest part of the family, which is the Benedettoni part,
comes from the thirteenth century, whichis originally from Toddy. And so I'm
the only descendant left male descendants.Let's say, I'm sorry about that.
That's come straight from down from thefamily tree. And I'm related to Jacopone
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that TOLDI, which is actually oneof the first Italian poets, let's say,
of the modern Italian language poet.Side and yeah, so he has
actually like a fantastic story. It'sgoing to be a long story to say
to say it, but of course, like it's studied at school as well,
so in the middle school, it'sone of the first poets you study
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in the middle schoo or high school. Yeah. But yeah, so I
am the thirty second generation producing wine. So yeah, we've been producing one
for that many years. But ofcourse, as you know, Italy was
not bottling at that time. Youknow, France was the first one to
bottle the actual wine. You know, they have as well, four hundred
years of history ahead of us inmarketing their bottles. So as you know,
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the first bottles in Italy that wereyou know, labeled and everything was
up north towards the barolo side.I don't know if you know the story
from there, but that's also veryinteresting, which is called the King of
the Wines and the Wines of theKings because French kings were actually drinking barolos
and they were the ones who orderedto put barolo inside the bottle. But
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yeah, so I'm the thirty secondgeneration producing wine and we have we have
like documents testifying that. But wechose nineteen twenty one as the year of
the winery because this is the oldbottle we have. So the first time
that we actually bottled our Sagarentino thatat that time it was only pasito.
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It was a sweet wine, youknow, for it for the dessert or
of course it's also can also drinkit with other plates, not only with
the dessert of course. But yeah, in our first dry Sagarentino is from
nineteen fifty four, and we stillhave a bottle of that as well.
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I think I remember you showing methat bottle when we took it. Two
of the yeah, yeah, exactlyhow many of them? I still I
tried it because we've changed the courtten years ago and try to splash on
it. And I mean also throughoutthe years, you know, it changed,
like the bottles have been moving aroundas well and everything. So it's
still pretty interesting. But the fiftyfour it kind of taste like parto now,
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but it's it still it's very interesting. So I'm curious that there was
a little bit of transactional changes inthe lad First of all, let's talk
about where unto this ceregony is inMontefalco, because it's in a very unique
location. Yeah, we kind ofare separate from you know, we're kind
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of not too far away from Montefalco. We're still in the denomination, but
we're towards the side of Guado Catana, so we're exactly in the middle between
Montefalco and Toddy And I think wehave our own kind of like microclimate there.
Um, you know, you needto come and like really search for
us. Let's say, you know, we're not in the main road of
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the throughout the whole wineries. Butyeah, it's kind of like an own
reality. Like we have two hundredand twenty actors completely uncontaminated. It's beautiful.
We have a huge, like avariety of like you know, bio
diversity. The vineyards is all selectedin one specific hill which is exactly in
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the middle of the property. Andthat hill has been selected since my great
great grandfather. And at the topof this hill, which actually reaches five
hundred meters of altitude, we arewe have the highest in altitude vineyard of
Sagarantino, and I believe is actuallyone of the oldest ones remaining some of
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the some of the vineyards are actuallysome of the vines are actually between fifty
to fifty five years old. Someof them they still have the original rootstock,
not all of them, some ofthem, of course, but yeah,
it is. My father takes careof them more than me, you
can imagine. But yeah, soit's it's it's unique. Let's say,
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well, we toured the the Sagarantinovineyard on top of the hill when we
were over there, both of us. I think Melanie, yes you did
too. And it's really just abeautiful piece of land. It's it's it's
basically the crown of a hill andthen all across the top of it is
are planted these beautiful old Sagarantino vines. It's stunning. And in the you
see villages, you see the towerwhere your father lives, which we marveled
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at because there's no windows. We'rewondering about that um. And you see
groves of olive trees, and alsoan area where you have you know,
you have cattle and horses. It'sit's a working farm, right, it
is a whole working farm. It'scompletely circular as well. Well. We
the as well. Just to add, we're actually also one of the first
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farms to be certified completely organic.We're actually number six in Italy, so
we're zero zero six in the inthe code. So the whole of course
it was organic also before, butit was not really a trend to be
certified. My father in nineteen ninetyfour he he chose to you know,
do the certification and everything and sincethen we've always been of course like organic.
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We have thirty can we have cattles. We have a thirty cows which
are completely you know, their freeto go around the estate and we use
them to of course fertilize our vineyardsand of course our cattle they eat from
our crops and all of the cropsare complete organic, so it's it's completely
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circle. As well, we alsodo we have an agriturismo inside, so
we have kind of like a wineresort of twelve rooms, which is beautiful.
Every room is completely different and it'sit's also it's very beautiful and as
well too restaurants. Now we havea restaurants of the hotel and abistrow that
just open last year that is veryvery successful. And of course all of
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the meat that it's given in therestaurants or they all come from our cattle.
We don't do the killing. Let'ssay, we only we send them
in a specific place to do them. But we grow them completely healthy,
completely free. They have a beautifullife. And then when it's time to
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eat, it's time to eat.And I want to point out, while
we're talking about the restaurant and thefood portion of Saragano, then you also
have a cooking school, yes,that you have on property, and people
are people are free to come andtake classes at the same time, so
you maybe further west, you know, really you're on the northwest edge of
Montefalco and off the beaten track,because Montefalco is fairly We were kind of
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amazed at how easy it was toget for wine to winery. But you
were a destination. You've got Lugalanda the resort at the hotel, and
the restaurants and the cooking school.You know what I was interested in.
When we toured, it was abeautiful day and there was a lot of
cross breezes and wind. I guessbecause the altitude you're up so high,
you get this incredible climate. Talkto us about that. Well, yeah,
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as I was saying, we havekind of like our own microclimate.
Let's say many many days for example, maybe towards Mountefalco. There's there is
like I don't know if it's rainingreally hard or and probably i'm driving around
that area. Sometimes I'm always likeone ing, like oh my god,
maybe even if it's hailing. SometimesI'm always worried if it's hailing in Montefalcome.
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I'm always worried that maybe it's hailingas well in Sagana. But then
I go back in Saraghana and everythingis dry. So the weather is completely
different. And you know, it'snot even that much of a distance around
fifteen kilometers, you know, it'snot even that much. But you know,
this hill is very is very special. I mean, we have many
winds coming from the north, sothat keeps everything really fresh as well,
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and so as well, we don'treally have a lot of problems in terms
of of the of like diseases.You know, everything stays pretty much dry,
especially towards the season of harvesting,you know, September and October,
also a bit of November when normallyin the morning, especially when we do
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the harvesting, there could be likea lot of fogs, so you know,
there can be a lot of humidity. This hill just sticks up the
fog you know, says stays ontop. So the humidity is really like
there's almost no humidities. Everything's driedoff from these winds. And this really
like in these conditions you can reallybe organic for real, you know,
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because you no need there's no needto spray and of like other you know,
substances that is not organic, whichis we're pretty lucky. And let's
say that my great grandfather when hechose to plant the vineyards there, this
was like around probably like yeah,one hundred years old. Let's because of
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course they got replanted. People weretelling him, ah, you're pretty crazy,
what are you doing? Where areyou planting the vineyards up there?
But right now that you know,the temperatures are changing, it's actually much
better. So thank god you actuallydid that decision, because everything, you
know, it's moving up north andeverything is all of the like vineyards are
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moving as well, up in altitudebecause you need that more freshness, you
know. So you're in a primelocation already because everybody's trying to find higher
elevation vineyards and they're not easy tocome by right now, particularly in Italy
exactly. Yeah, Land is Landis scarce. And another thing I think
It's key to point out about thisparticular property is that you don't have any
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vineyards around you, so you're reallythe only people there, and so being
organic is an easy thing for youbecause you don't have possible contamination from any
vineyards around you that aren't organic,and so you're you're in a really great
almost like a pago in Spain.It's it's a real self enclosed estate um
and its own and its own entity. It's a really great way to put
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it. The only contamination we get, Sorry about that, but the only
contamination we actually get is the rain, and there's nothing we can do about.
Now. You can't do anything aboutthat, of course exactly you should,
but you can welcome it. Atcertain times of the year. I
mean, we were there in April, it's really quite chilly. Do you
get much snow sometimes? You know, it's uh, it doesn't really snow
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that much in Umbria, but inthe last years it's been actually snowing.
But you know, it snows forthat one week one slash two weeks per
like per year, maybe the monthsof January and February sometimes, but it
doesn't stay that much. You know, it always lows for like behalf a
meter, like it would be likea miracle, you know, but so
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not that much. But of courseit gets really cold as well. You
know, when I was on thetour with you, you mentioned something about
the historic name from Monte Faco binCoca Rone. Oh yeah, that's one
of the as I said at thebeginning, there's um you know them,
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there is no like, there's notmany stories. I mean sorry, there's
many stories on the history of Stagarantino, of the great variety, you know,
because there is no actual realm studythat has been made on the actual
BNA of of the of the ofthe grape Sagantino. But one of it
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was the name was given Sargentino becausethere was the Frederick the Second who I
was actually born in yaz which isin the Marqui region, which is actually
pretty close to Ubria. And oneof the legend is that he was fascinated
by falcons and he was really likea falcon hunter, you know, and
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all around the area there in Montefalcosand Saragano if you lift up, like
if you look up in the skies, especially around this period, you will
see a lot of hawks, falconsand hawks, and so he came to
the area. He was just passingby, and this is the time that
Montefalco, the city, the townof Montefalco, was actually named Kokne.
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So he changed the name to Mountefalcobecause he was filled with falcons, of
course, and also because the legendsays, of course that one of his
own personal falcon got injured and thepriests from from the cathedral of the church
of Montefalco they cured this falcon makinga paste with the grapes of Sagarantino,
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because the priests were the actually theonly ones who were who were actually planting
the grape variety of Sagarantino, becausehe was used in church, you know,
for religion purposes, and they usedthe grapes to cure one of the
falcons. And so from there likehe changed their name to Mount of Falcons.
You know, Montefalco make more sense, it does. It's a great
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story. So what what was Cocarroni? Then? Why Cocni because there's a
restaurant in Yeah, there is stilla restaurant that is has the name Cocrone
and you know ki is in themodern languages named Cocone, but in Latin
it was called cars, which Ithink in the something about the crowns um
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not don't really, I still needto read about that. My father knows
more about all of the stories andthe legends and everything else. I'm going
into the viticultural side. I lookmore into the ground and into the wine.
Let's say, well, you know, it's all about where you come
from, which is why when youtold me that, my interest was sparked,
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because it is such a when youwhen we visit a region and we
learned about the name of a wine, we always wonder how did the wine
get that name? In Sagrantino issuch a major your sacred sa it's a
it's such a deep, very intensivename for a very deep intensive wine,
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and it is powerful, right ohyeah. One of also the interesting part
which like if you connect the dots, you know, it's all a weird
and funny coincidence if you actually translate, because Friender of the Second was actually
fluent in Urbica as well, becausehe was also um like also he became
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also the king of Jerusalem for afor quite some time. But if you
translate in Rabic falcon or hawk intoEnglish, like you know, if you
do the translation, it's actually pronouncedsakra, you know, so it comes
so you see that there is anactual connection that you know, with the
name, which is a it's veryfunny. Actually, you know, there
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should be more studies, I believe, into the actual legends you know,
of the Sagarantino. But yeah,it's it's a funny coincidence. Well,
at the press conference held the lastnight of Entreprema Montefalco, a professor did
give a fairly lengthy poetic explanation aboutthe meaning behind the name, and it
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was a very interesting Thankfully it wastranslated well, but sometimes they're not.
But that's why I asked, solet's do talk about Let's talk about the
grape itself, the Montefalco Sagarrantino,because it is unique to this area,
it has very distinct characteristics. Talkto us about it. Well, you
know, I'm a big fan ofthe Sagarentino. I believe that you kind
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of need to, you know,have a palette for it, of course,
because it's super interesting grape. Imaginethat here that I'm in Bordeaux where
I'm doing my master now in beauticulture. So most of my professors, they
are all like experts in the grapevarieties and studying, you know, which
great variety would actually work in thefuture with all of the climate change and
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everything. When I talk to themabout the sagarentino, they actually had no
idea about it because it's a veryemerging grape variety. And the fun the
most interesting thing is that people stillthink that the tenniest wine in the world
and the one that has the mostamount of polyphenols is actually tannat But in
reality sagarentino has the double amount ofpolyphenols, which is super interesting polyphenols.
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Also inside the polyphones you can findalso antioxidants. So in a way,
a class of sagarentino a day canactually really keep the doctor away. It
can really be like healthy, youknow. But yeah, so it's a
it's a tough gray variety as wellto to to work on. You know.
The skin is very very thick.It's a kind of like a late
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ripening variety, and it makes thisvery very powerful and dark wine. It
used to be called nundo or actuallyat one point the farmers around the area
they wouldn't even call it sagarantino whenthey were producing, and they were calling
it vinundo, which is black wine, which is very very you know,
rough, and it was actually kindof easier to make it as a macito,
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you know, as a sweet wine, because every time they would make
it make it maybe as a drywine. I'm talking about the many many
years ago. Maybe they didn't haveactually the technology and all of it,
like, you know, the methodsto actually make it very you know,
approachable for for the palette, youknow, say, would they would actually
ride it out and make it asa posito. But of course, like
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some wineries, they started to adoptand make more into the dry wine,
which made it of course, uh, the sigarentino today. You know,
it's interesting, but most producers inMontefalco that make sagarantino do make it in
both styles still, so you're theymake it, of course, which is
very cort but they also make itas a posito, which is the sweet
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wine. And their lovely wines.I love the positos when they come from
red grapes, and it doesn't happenvery often, but the sago positos are
delicious. Yeah. I I learnedalso, which I found interesting, that
there's a real tradition of drinking positoin Montefalco, as you mentioned many times,
it was made. First it wasa Sunday wine, a Sunday lunch
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wine that um families would drink withtheir lamb and their roast meats, where
many with the posito is a dessertwine. But with all the producers that
I met with during this last trip, when they brought out the posito one,
I said, tell me how youwould drink it. They all said,
with savory meats and savory cheeses,and dessert was never really occasionally it
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was mentioned, and some of theones I tasted and really I got it,
you know. And you when wewere at to New the Sarragona,
we did it. You brought outsome blue cheese, you brought out like
three things to taste with the wines, and you could just get it as
you tasted. Oh yes, no, But of course, to correct myself
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again, maybe I wasn't here before. Placito can of course be drank also
with meats as well, now withjust the dessert. But yeah, with
the with the lamb is something else. Like with the lamb is fantastic.
It's like one of the best combinationsyou can actually make. Acito with the
lamb is actually called to be here. It's fantastic and yeah with a little
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um jam. Yeah. I foundthat these wines I love in Santo,
but the pasidos here in Montefalco,they were not overly sweet. There were
some wonderful floral and cocoa which Ifound very pleasant and really went well with
some of the different non traditional,you know, not in sweet dishes that
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we would be used to here inthe United States. But of course most
of the pasitos are limited production andusually limited to what the families serve.
You. Is your posito commercially available? It is commercially available. We still
didn't we still have a production ofpasito because we stopped many years ago to
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produce it. But now we startedagain in twenty nineteen, and we are
not certified. We didn't certify ityet as a DUCG pasito because we're still
working in it, you know,and we're still like perfectioning it again.
But it is fantastic. And youhave these notes of dark olive olives,
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and and I catch a honey,you know, it's like a it's very
like interesting combinations on the nose andespecially on the mouth. It's it's very
very smooth. But we're still workingon it. To actually commercialize it and
you know, also do the certificationof the DIOCG again and everything. For
now, we are more concentrated indoing our dry Sagarentino and and the other
(25:25):
white wines that we produce. Wellwe you know, as we said,
the new Village is the two thousandand nineteen. We also tasted some older
vintages, which I think was veryhelpful because obviously the New Village is still
very tight but shows incredible promise umand I think I had a few that
I was ready to actually drink now, but most of you want to lay
down. We tasted with you.I think it was a two thousand and
(25:49):
seven, two thousand and seven,the two thousand and sixteen, which is
a great vintage. Every time we'vehad two thousand and sixteen atly, it's
been pretty good, right, reallygood. You know. There you could
just see where the promise was delivered. You know, with the twenty nineteen,
there's a promise, the deliver thedelivery really kind of came about five
(26:11):
or six years later. And Ithought that the two thousand and sixteen was
really level. You only make whattwo thousand and six fifty bottles. It's
limited, but there was a lotof I left the liquorice notes and macerated.
I wrote down the dark fruit andI kept getting touches of anis and
leather. It's really really beautiful.Oh yeah, I mean, you know,
(26:33):
Secentino. It's a great variety thatneeds a long time. You need
to be patient. And for example, the right now you tasted the two
thousand and sixteen, and it's actuallythe current vintage that we're selling right now,
sixteen. We of course we gavea bottle just to try the nineteen,
but our nineteen is still in thebarrel. Actually we bottle it yet.
So we gave like a testing ofcourse because of the antipanema. But
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the nineteen is still very young,of course, and I gave it always
whenever like people come around, alwaysmake them taste, you know, older
vintages to actually understand, you know, where is it going and as well
as it's it's it's a wine thatreally evolves like a lot throughout the years.
(27:17):
So if you keep it in upcorrect like you know, in the
correct way, in the perfect locationand everything, it's a wine that can
last like for a long long time. You know, all of the amounts
of polyphenols and as well also likethe high alcohol level keeps you know,
this all gives like an advantage oflike an amazing longevity you know for the
(27:38):
wine. M Yeah, I thinkpeople, I think patients is a good
term for sacrantine and understand it's awine to put down and drink at a
specific time. Don't rush it.As well, we sell the the sixteen
because in in I mean, youknow, our idea is like I need
to sell you a product that isready to drink. You know, I
(28:00):
can't give you a wine that youknow, here, have it, but
don't drink it. Keep it andyou know, keep it aside. Like
you're gonna be like, no,that's your job. You're supposed to keep
it aside. I'm supposed to giveyou a product that is ready to drink.
Of course, you can choose tokeep it aside or not. But
if I'm selling you a wine,you know that wine needs to be either
ready to drink or you know,kept aside for even better. Well,
(28:25):
I think that's one of the nicethings about Segrenttino, because you know,
we tasted a bunch of sixteens,which is a good year. Seventeens eighteens
and nineteens while we were there,and they were they were all well made,
and they all had drink ability attheir ages right yet they also had
the ability to age for a longtime, because I think we were drinking
ten and fifteen year old Sagarentinos aswell, which we're just tasting beautifully right
(28:49):
now. Well we taste it inseven as well. Yeah, the seven.
You see that it was beautiful downbecause you see all of the you
know, the everything that is extralet's say, precipitated down in the bottle.
So then literally like the only thegood stuff just stayed up there too,
ready to be drunk, you know. Yeah, really nice. You
(29:11):
know what I was impressed with thistrip or the Monte Faco rosos, particularly
reserves um, which are a different, completely different Sagarantino. Montefaco is a
DOOCG, very specific one hundred percentSagarantino, but the Monte Faco Rosos are
blends. I think the is it? They can be maximum sixty percent send
(29:33):
you no minimum minimum, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, minimum sixty percent send
you a bes and then um.Most were blended with Sagarantino and often with
Marlo, so it rounds everything out, um, including what you offer.
We had your Roso twenty seventeen ina reserv exactly, yeah, so we
(29:55):
had for now we have the RosaMontefalconos. Of course, also that he's
at we have sixty percent of SanjoBezi. Then there is the twenty five
percent of Merlo and fifteen percent ofSagarentino for the Rosolimontefalco. But on the
Rizerva there is a five percent moreSagarentino, so there is twenty percent Merlo
and twenty percent Sagarentino. And thenof course it stays long a bit longer
(30:18):
of course in the barrel because ithas to be to be at Rizerva,
but also the we choose the actualbest barrels out of all of them to
keep aside to make the Zerva.We don't make the Rezeva every year.
We only choose specific years to makeit. For example, the twenty sixteen
actually that we had it last year, we have almost like actually we have
(30:40):
no bottles left. I think wehave maybe one hundred bottles that we keep
aside just for us, you know, because it went completely sold out,
because it was a fantastic wine.We were actually awarded for this competition of
one hundred best wines in Italy.Actually, and yeah, it was very
We're very happy about it. Weren'tyou impressed by the mont the Mountefalco Rosso's,
(31:04):
David, Well, I'm a hugefan of Hey, I'm a huge
fan of sand begin with. Andsanz is probably the most predominant white red
grape in central Italy, right,and it grows very well in Tuscany,
of course, as we all know, and also in Umbrio, so they
utilize a lot of sanjaves and Umbriand I think it marries really well with
(31:26):
the Sagrantino as a blend. Theycompliment each other, they're really and of
course adding a bit of merlot isjust you know, that's you know,
gives a little bit of elegance ofcourse, and a bit of elegance in
under the touch. Yeah, reallyreally lovely wines, um and so you
know, for you know, forpeople who I think also the montefalco Rosso's
(31:48):
were a bit less had less alcoholby volume. Some people may not be
able to embrace a fifteen point fiveand sixteen percent said alcohol by volume,
which many so many Montifoco Sabrantinas are, which it does limit your ability to
drink through lots of it. Yeah, so so the Montifoco Rosa's ten ten,
(32:12):
but not always because I think yoursare fifteen percent as well, But
you have to be prepared for that. Look at these are wines for food.
Um oh you really are? Isthere a greade you like to work
with, particularly as you are workingin your viticultural role. What do you
like to work with? And why? Well, you know, I mean
(32:34):
working with the second of course,is always special. I mean for now,
like I don't really have too much. I mean, of course I'm
there just to you know, givesome advice and my opinions inside the vineyards.
But as well, you know,my dad is still there of course,
and he takes the most of thedecisions in all of the vineyards.
That's I have to of course,it's true. But you know, talking
(32:55):
about also the alcohol percentage in thefuture, I mean, it's gonna be
hard to you know, put thealcohol percentage down because if you really want,
you know, really like ripe grapes, you know, right, cloth
like the ripe grapes especially, andhave you know the best perfumes and the
best aromas with these temperatures, youknow, you need to leave the you
(33:20):
know, the grape on the plantfor longer, because if you if you
harvest before it's it's gonna be youknow, it's not it's going to be
good for this grape variety because you'regonna have a like a highest too much
a facility, you know. Andand especially you're working with the tannins,
you know, especially for these wines, and if the tannins are not ripe,
they're going to be green, andthey're gonna be you know, aggressive
(33:40):
on the teeth, you know,on the palette. So it is of
course they're they're high on alcohol.But the most important thing is that of
course you need to eat with it, but then they need to be balanced
out. So some of our wines, I don't know if you you've tried
them, there are fifteen sixty.We produce also a white wine that is
actually fourteen point five, which isvery high as well, but when you
(34:02):
drink it, it doesn't bother you, like that's the most important thing.
But at the same time it givesthat importance, you know, when you
have it on the nose, youyou have all of these aromas that are
really like you know, developed throughoutthe time that the grape variety was still
on the plant. You know,we we harvest very late, all of
(34:22):
our all of our harvest is verylate. The sigentino. Sometimes we go
around the end of October, sometimeseven at the beginning of November. And
there's always a clash between which is, yeah, it's very late. There's
always a clash between Ivan being karate, which is actually our master. Let's
say that on one of our winesthat he's the business partner of my father
(34:44):
inside the winery, and we reallyhave to thank him, you know,
because our wines honestly have a signaturebecause of him, because really he has
really like a touch, you know, for our wines. And you can
really when you whenever you drink ourwines and you you drink it also with
(35:04):
other type of wines, you recognizehis hand, you know, you recognize
that his method. And there's alwaysa clash every year between my father and
even saying, you know, wehave to harvest, and even it's like
no, we're not, no,We're gonna have to wait, wait more,
wait more, And he's always rightat the end of the day.
Every every year is always right.Of course, the alcohol level increased,
but the wines are fantastic, youknow, you have beautiful at almost how
(35:28):
long has even worked with your family? I mean he even entered in the
in the in the business of thewinery because right now the winery is actually
we have combined with him, youknow, so the wine the winery itself
is uh, it's owned also byEvan, So you and my dad they
became business partner. This was aroundtwelve years ago, if if I'm not
(35:52):
wrong, Yeah, something like that. And yeah, from him, we
actually like have we had a hugelike huge success, especially on the white
our Mountaquo, which is we're onehundred percent. Like it became really interesting
with him, like he's the oneto who made the big change, you
(36:13):
know, especially on the Mountequel.We still have like other you know,
lots of people coming to us andasking us a lot of questions on how
do you make this? Like howdoes these aroma come out like this?
This wine goes into barrel. We'relike, no, it doesn't, there's
literally no barrel. Well that's agood point because we want to bring up
the whites because I happened to lovethat wine. Um, and it is
(36:36):
one hundred percent Grekhato correct, Yes, and it's only um agent stateless to
be exact. Sorry, yeah,grequet to day. So how is grighetto
Dictota different from other grighettos? Isthere something that nuanced about it? You
know, there's in Italy has youknow, in Italy we have so many
(36:57):
great varieties that every fifty kilometers there'sanother great variety in Italy, you know.
So, and they're all named.Of course, they also have like
in a sense they have like theDNA, it's slightly different from one another,
but as well, you know,they also sometimes maybe they could be
also the same grape, but ifyou grow it somewhere else, it just
comes out as another wine, soyou give it another name, of course,
(37:20):
you know. And they though theis fantastic. It really really performs
really well in our area. Andthe Montakelo became kind of like an institution
right now, Like it's very veryinteresting that one does not touch wood,
only stainless steel. There is noteven a long masration. I mean,
the whole work is all done byleading it on the lease for a long
(37:45):
time. So the masration is noteven that long. It's just the lease,
you know. So and then ofcourse there's also like a I don't
know what even those to it,of course, but you know it's just
his hand, you know, isthe way the way he makes it makes
it interesting. Of course he doesn'tanything extra. No, I'm not gonna
I'm not gonna say that it doesn'tit's all made. Of course, our
(38:07):
philosophy in our wine, which isvery important, is that our wines,
wines is made in the vineyard,not in the winery. It's all a
matter of how you hold and howyou actually take care of the actual plants.
That's the most important thing. Andknowing your plants the best way possible,
knowing when to harvest, knowing whento you know, do the pruning,
(38:31):
knowing when you have to do thewinter pruning or also the green pruning.
That's the most essential thing. Andthis is our philosophy. And then
you just have to accompany the grapejuice all the way to the bottle.
But there's not much work done inthe winery. It's all done in the
vineyard. That's the most important thing. I love this wine. I couldn't
(38:53):
agree more. You know, Ilove the wine too, and we also
we also they also they put atwenty one for us, which is the
current vintage. But then they alsobrought out a bottle of the twenty eighteen,
which I which I just adored.Do you get that one? Well,
I told, I told them withyou yeah, well we had to
(39:14):
make it a bit interesting. Soas the but the monte Cielo as it
aged, I thought it got thiseven though there's no malalactic I believe right,
No, no, no, itlooks like yeah because it because it
had a beautiful buttery character to itseighteen. It really had a lovely kind
(39:35):
of creaminess to it, but itdidn't give for your malalactic, so it
was it's a really interesting thing.You also make a Montefelco bianco um that
is made well, yeah, Tribianospoletino, which is really kind of the
main white grape of the region,and then also thirty percent grikeeto. Tell
us about that, and tell usa little bit about Trebiano Spoletino, because
it's a very interesting grape for usand and for you guys. It hasn't
(39:58):
been really made into a variet Ihad a wine in Montefaco for very long.
I think the first vintage we heardwas really in two thousand and seven
or two thousand and eight and thiswas from another winery. Um so exactly
because relatively new on the scene.But it's it's something that you guys are
going all in on and really makinga statement with so tell us about Trepiana
Spoleto. Yeah, yeah, itis, it is. It is a
(40:20):
great variety that has actually, youknow, been introduced recently inside the area
of Montefalco because it comes from Spoletooriginally. But I believe actually that and
not many years ago. I don'twant to I don't want to be incorrect,
but I believe I think like maybeseven or eight years ago or something
like that. It kind of youknow, um, there was an agreement,
(40:43):
let's say, between the between Spoletoand montefac that the that you know,
the great variety can also be introducedand used in the area of Montefalco.
And and this the Monteco came cameout, you know, got created,
let's say, and we only putMonteco, sorry for THEE, we
(41:05):
only have seventy percent of of ofgret sorry of of getting confused right now,
of the PO and the RST.So this is we only use these
two great varieties, which is theonly way to white grap price that we
have other wineries, I believe theyalso start putting other varieties and they also,
(41:28):
you know, they made a reallyreally good product. I've tried also
other Montefalco bianco from other one isthat they're very very interesting. But yeah,
it's a super super interesting, greatvariety and there is a lot of
demand in it, and I've seenthat the demand has been increasing throughout the
years. A lot of you knowUM consumers or like you know, UM
(41:49):
exporters, they're always asking like,do you produce tribano pollino? So,
yes, we do, but weonly only do the Monte Facianco because we
still are not we still don't producethe one hundred per santragostino. We kind
of like the blending of them,you know, gives it a bore of
like this floral you know aromas.Let's say that makes it a bit more
fresher than actually then because it's moreyou know, has like a unique taste.
(42:15):
But to blend them in there isthis flow like a flower aroma,
you know, which makes it veryinteresting. And this one also spends a
considerable time on lease as well.Correct. Yeah, so it's they're both
made in exactly the same method theour also the the gregat I like them
(42:38):
both. I actually I found thatthroughout the week. And this is our
second visit, and my first introductionto Trebiano Spellatino was in last fall.
I like the wine. They werenot consistently the same throughout. Some I
liked more. It's a very aromaticwine, which I happen to like aromatic
(42:58):
whites, so very like um.Sometimes they can go a little more honeyed,
sometimes more citrus, but I reallyenjoy them. And I also liked
them when they were blended with thegrigeto. I found some of these alone.
Some were a little less exciting forme than others. Again, they
were all over the place. Youknow. One of the nice things about
(43:21):
going to these on supremas is weget to do technical tastings. We just
sit in a room and boom,boom boom. They bring them to you
one after another, and you it'sreally like it's like palette push ups.
What's nice about it is you reallysee the different nuances in the wines.
And I think I hate that theTrebianus Pellatino would be a great wine to
really promote more in the United Statesbecause aromatic whites are popular here, but
(43:47):
it's still in its youth comparatively speaking. Oh yeah, no, no,
for sure, for sure it hasits very interesting on the almost sorry I
interrupted, not at all. Iwas just thinking. I was thinking it
would be a good way to havemore of in the Unitedation. I think
the production levels have rise too,yeah, meet that demand probably speaking of
(44:08):
youth, no pressure. It teasedyou because you are the thirty second generation
and you are going to be theheir apparent. Um, you're still young
and you're getting your masters and helpingat the winery and working with your dad.
What would do as your role increasesand evolves? What would you like
(44:29):
to see happen? Knowing that there'sso many issues in the wine world today,
to maintain not only your family legacy, but the respect for the land
and understanding that climate is changing,well, you know, Um, for
me, the most important thing andalso the most uh yeah, it's it's
also what my father has been doingfrom also from the past generations, is
(44:52):
to keep like the tradition, youknow, that is the most important thing
for us. So in terms ofthe technical side for the winery, I
already think that I don't think I'mgoing to increase the production. You know,
we produce around fifty thousand bottles ayear. This is that's the space
we have for the vineyards. Wehave twelve actors of vineyard um the winery.
(45:15):
It is how it is, youknow, we don't have also much
space to produce more and everything.But it is really focused on the quality
of the wines we give. SoI don't think I'll increase the quantity of
the of the production, of course, but at the same time, it's
also to maintain this standard because that'syou know, that of course what I
(45:36):
have to do. And I believethat our wines are you know, I
strongly believe that our wines are verygood. Just like not to be you
know, pretentious as well, butI really believe that, and so the
most important thing that I have todo is to maintain this standard and also
to be consistent with keeping you know, the tradition and you know, keeping
(46:00):
in the way it is, youknow, just of course to maybe slightly
you know, make it better insome aspects, but at the same time,
you know, to always maintain ourour you know, our history and
our tradition into our wine absolutely andbare fruit and definitely, you've kind of
(46:22):
you're you're going to maintain the family, You're going to maintain consistency. It's
you know, it's a beautiful placeand we want to, you know,
thank you for giving both of usvery highly personalized tours and tastings of Oh,
you're welcome the winery. And youknow, Tonda de Seregona is off
the beaten track. It is adestination winery truly without a wonderful place to
(46:46):
stay, which hopefully we could takeadvantage of next time. Um but we
are all about telling our listeners togo off the beaten track, to explore
and discover. The good news isto Nuda de Seregona's wines are also available
in the United States and UM,as are many of the Montefalco wines.
We taste it so we encourage operalisteners to ask their local retailer or their
(47:10):
samia, what do you have?We want to try something and see what
we can do. We appreciate yourtime. Thank you so much. Thanks,
thank you so much, and I'mexpecting you, of course at our
wine resort. We're we're going toexpect you there, especially also in the
restaurants with open arms. You know, well, we would look forward to
(47:34):
that, maybe coming at a differenttime of year where it's where we can
really spend some time with you alland and kind of do exact dive into
the into the culinary side of Saraganoas well. Yeah, yeah, take
a cooking class. Yeah, youknow, we didn't even touch all the
wonderful food we ate, right exactly. But also you know, the state
is there is waiting for you.But as as well, you know,
(47:55):
it's a place where you can dolots of activities from cooking classes, riding
tours and everything. But at thesame time, it's also very important that
you can come there and absolutely nothingand relax. That's the most important.
Well, it's a Bucolic place,Melanie, I have to say, it's
one of one of my one ofmy favorite visits while we were over there.
Yeah, me too as well.And you know it is about when
(48:17):
you do travel to these beautiful wineregions, don't rush it, savor it,
take time to enjoy and relax.So again we've been speaking with Googlielmo
Pongelli thirty seconds thirty second generation ofan esteemed noble family of Italy and family
(48:37):
proprietor at Tanuta di Serragono Vini DimantefalcoGrazzi Pertuti. I'll see you soon then.
Thank you for listening. We lookforward at Presto. Folks, you've
been listening to The Connected Table Livewith David Ransom and Melanie Young, and
as always we encourage you to getout and explore, expand your palette and
(48:59):
learn and taste and always stay insatiablycurious. Thank you,
The topics and opinions expressed in thefollowing show are solely those of the hosts
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questions or comments should be directed tothose show hosts. Thank you for choosing
(00:21):
W FORCY Radio. Welcome to theConnected Table Live. We're your hosts,
(00:42):
Melanie Young and David Ransom. You'reinsatiably curious culinary couple. We enjoy taking
you to meet the people we meetaround the world who are leaders in wine,
food, spirits, and hospitality,and we enjoy sharing their stories and
their wines and their foods with youor listeners. Today we are taking you
to Umbria, and specifically to Montefalco, a very beautiful and historic winemaking region
(01:07):
that is the only landlocked wine regionin Italy. Right, David Well,
Umbria is the only landlocked region regionin the peninsula of Italy exactly, and
it's called Green Italy, a beautifulplace. We've been there now a couple
of times, Melanie and we justgot back the other day from a week
there to celebrate Antiprima. Sagrentino andMontefalco is Antiprema. So it's the preview
(01:33):
of the new vintage of the winesthat come out of that region. And
it was really just a delightful tripwhich was named five Store pronounced five store.
So one of the great things aboutthis trip and this specific Entrepremia,
because we've been to many, isthat we were given the option to visit
many, many wineries, like morethan normal. I think about three days
of winery visits, which were forus are really great because that's how we
(01:53):
find stories to share with you,our listeners. And David and I actually
split up. We did different itinerariesdeliberately, right absolutely and yeah, Divine
and Conquer, but we also wentto the same wineries but on different days.
And our guest today is one ofthe wineries we visited that left a
(02:15):
very deep impression and has a greatstory. First, I'm going to set
it up this way. We're takingyou back thirty two generations. Just think
about that, thirty two generations.You know, we love to interview families.
This is thirty two generations, goingback to really the early days of
Italy the twelfth century, and thefamily is one of the oldest noble families
(02:37):
of Italy. It's the Pongelli Benedettonifamily. It's actually two families, the
Pongellis and the Benedettoni's. And joiningus as we says thirty second family member
of the winery to Nuta di Sarragonais Guiliemo Pungelli Benedettoni. Welcome, Ben
Thenudo, Hi, Hi, thanksfor having me. It's a pleasure to
(03:00):
be part of this show. Well, we had the pleasure of both spending
time with you. You go byin the English William, which will do
this, and you both gave usamazing tours. Let's start with your family.
You got a tour, Melanie.I didn't get a tour. Yes,
you did as too on a hilaris. David posted it on actual Instagram.
(03:23):
Actually, if you remember, Iactually told them to give you a
tell you different stories than they toldme, just stories could mix it up
absolutely well. I was worrying aboutthat. Actually, you know, remember
you. I was like, oh, my god, because Melanie was supposed
to come after you. Oh mygod, I need to make sure I'm
going to say the same thing toher. Right. It was a great
tour, and you're a wonderful tourguide. You are your father, You
(03:46):
work with your father, and youalso live in Bordeaux where you're honing your
skills and your work with your father, who lives in a turret with a
tower on the property. Tell usabout your family. First of all,
it is back. It has avery interesting history in Italy. Well,
yeah, so I mean my family. I mean, as you can see,
my last name is basically it's twolast names that merged to its two
(04:11):
families that merged together. They managedto merge together actually in the fifteenth century.
But the oldest part of the family, which is the Benedettoni part,
comes from the thirteenth century, whichis originally from Toddy. And so I'm
the only descendant left male descendants.Let's say, I'm sorry about that.
That's come straight from down from thefamily tree. And I'm related to Jacopone
(04:34):
that TOLDI, which is actually oneof the first Italian poets, let's say,
of the modern Italian language poet.Side and yeah, so he has
actually like a fantastic story. It'sgoing to be a long story to say
to say it, but of course, like it's studied at school as well,
so in the middle school, it'sone of the first poets you study
(04:58):
in the middle schoo or high school. Yeah. But yeah, so I
am the thirty second generation producing wine. So yeah, we've been producing one
for that many years. But ofcourse, as you know, Italy was
not bottling at that time. Youknow, France was the first one to
bottle the actual wine. You know, they have as well, four hundred
years of history ahead of us inmarketing their bottles. So as you know,
(05:26):
the first bottles in Italy that wereyou know, labeled and everything was
up north towards the barolo side.I don't know if you know the story
from there, but that's also veryinteresting, which is called the King of
the Wines and the Wines of theKings because French kings were actually drinking barolos
and they were the ones who orderedto put barolo inside the bottle. But
(05:46):
yeah, so I'm the thirty secondgeneration producing wine and we have we have
like documents testifying that. But wechose nineteen twenty one as the year of
the winery because this is the oldbottle we have. So the first time
that we actually bottled our Sagarentino thatat that time it was only pasito.
(06:06):
It was a sweet wine, youknow, for it for the dessert or
of course it's also can also drinkit with other plates, not only with
the dessert of course. But yeah, in our first dry Sagarentino is from
nineteen fifty four, and we stillhave a bottle of that as well.
(06:27):
I think I remember you showing methat bottle when we took it. Two
of the yeah, yeah, exactlyhow many of them? I still I
tried it because we've changed the courtten years ago and try to splash on
it. And I mean also throughoutthe years, you know, it changed,
like the bottles have been moving aroundas well and everything. So it's
still pretty interesting. But the fiftyfour it kind of taste like parto now,
(06:50):
but it's it still it's very interesting. So I'm curious that there was
a little bit of transactional changes inthe lad First of all, let's talk
about where unto this ceregony is inMontefalco, because it's in a very unique
location. Yeah, we kind ofare separate from you know, we're kind
(07:14):
of not too far away from Montefalco. We're still in the denomination, but
we're towards the side of Guado Catana, so we're exactly in the middle between
Montefalco and Toddy And I think wehave our own kind of like microclimate there.
Um, you know, you needto come and like really search for
us. Let's say, you know, we're not in the main road of
(07:36):
the throughout the whole wineries. Butyeah, it's kind of like an own
reality. Like we have two hundredand twenty actors completely uncontaminated. It's beautiful.
We have a huge, like avariety of like you know, bio
diversity. The vineyards is all selectedin one specific hill which is exactly in
(07:57):
the middle of the property. Andthat hill has been selected since my great
great grandfather. And at the topof this hill, which actually reaches five
hundred meters of altitude, we arewe have the highest in altitude vineyard of
Sagarantino, and I believe is actuallyone of the oldest ones remaining some of
(08:18):
the some of the vineyards are actuallysome of the vines are actually between fifty
to fifty five years old. Someof them they still have the original rootstock,
not all of them, some ofthem, of course, but yeah,
it is. My father takes careof them more than me, you
can imagine. But yeah, soit's it's it's unique. Let's say,
(08:41):
well, we toured the the Sagarantinovineyard on top of the hill when we
were over there, both of us. I think Melanie, yes you did
too. And it's really just abeautiful piece of land. It's it's it's
basically the crown of a hill andthen all across the top of it is
are planted these beautiful old Sagarantino vines. It's stunning. And in the you
see villages, you see the towerwhere your father lives, which we marveled
(09:07):
at because there's no windows. We'rewondering about that um. And you see
groves of olive trees, and alsoan area where you have you know,
you have cattle and horses. It'sit's a working farm, right, it
is a whole working farm. It'scompletely circular as well. Well. We
the as well. Just to add, we're actually also one of the first
(09:28):
farms to be certified completely organic.We're actually number six in Italy, so
we're zero zero six in the inthe code. So the whole of course
it was organic also before, butit was not really a trend to be
certified. My father in nineteen ninetyfour he he chose to you know,
do the certification and everything and sincethen we've always been of course like organic.
(09:52):
We have thirty can we have cattles. We have a thirty cows which
are completely you know, their freeto go around the estate and we use
them to of course fertilize our vineyardsand of course our cattle they eat from
our crops and all of the cropsare complete organic, so it's it's completely
(10:13):
circle. As well, we alsodo we have an agriturismo inside, so
we have kind of like a wineresort of twelve rooms, which is beautiful.
Every room is completely different and it'sit's also it's very beautiful and as
well too restaurants. Now we havea restaurants of the hotel and abistrow that
just open last year that is veryvery successful. And of course all of
(10:35):
the meat that it's given in therestaurants or they all come from our cattle.
We don't do the killing. Let'ssay, we only we send them
in a specific place to do them. But we grow them completely healthy,
completely free. They have a beautifullife. And then when it's time to
(10:56):
eat, it's time to eat.And I want to point out, while
we're talking about the restaurant and thefood portion of Saragano, then you also
have a cooking school, yes,that you have on property, and people
are people are free to come andtake classes at the same time, so
you maybe further west, you know, really you're on the northwest edge of
Montefalco and off the beaten track,because Montefalco is fairly We were kind of
(11:18):
amazed at how easy it was toget for wine to winery. But you
were a destination. You've got Lugalanda the resort at the hotel, and
the restaurants and the cooking school.You know what I was interested in.
When we toured, it was abeautiful day and there was a lot of
cross breezes and wind. I guessbecause the altitude you're up so high,
you get this incredible climate. Talkto us about that. Well, yeah,
(11:43):
as I was saying, we havekind of like our own microclimate.
Let's say many many days for example, maybe towards Mountefalco. There's there is
like I don't know if it's rainingreally hard or and probably i'm driving around
that area. Sometimes I'm always likeone ing, like oh my god,
maybe even if it's hailing. SometimesI'm always worried if it's hailing in Montefalcome.
(12:05):
I'm always worried that maybe it's hailingas well in Sagana. But then
I go back in Saraghana and everythingis dry. So the weather is completely
different. And you know, it'snot even that much of a distance around
fifteen kilometers, you know, it'snot even that much. But you know,
this hill is very is very special. I mean, we have many
winds coming from the north, sothat keeps everything really fresh as well,
(12:26):
and so as well, we don'treally have a lot of problems in terms
of of the of like diseases.You know, everything stays pretty much dry,
especially towards the season of harvesting,you know, September and October,
also a bit of November when normallyin the morning, especially when we do
(12:48):
the harvesting, there could be likea lot of fogs, so you know,
there can be a lot of humidity. This hill just sticks up the
fog you know, says stays ontop. So the humidity is really like
there's almost no humidities. Everything's driedoff from these winds. And this really
like in these conditions you can reallybe organic for real, you know,
(13:09):
because you no need there's no needto spray and of like other you know,
substances that is not organic, whichis we're pretty lucky. And let's
say that my great grandfather when hechose to plant the vineyards there, this
was like around probably like yeah,one hundred years old. Let's because of
(13:30):
course they got replanted. People weretelling him, ah, you're pretty crazy,
what are you doing? Where areyou planting the vineyards up there?
But right now that you know,the temperatures are changing, it's actually much
better. So thank god you actuallydid that decision, because everything, you
know, it's moving up north andeverything is all of the like vineyards are
(13:50):
moving as well, up in altitudebecause you need that more freshness, you
know. So you're in a primelocation already because everybody's trying to find higher
elevation vineyards and they're not easy tocome by right now, particularly in Italy
exactly. Yeah, Land is Landis scarce. And another thing I think
It's key to point out about thisparticular property is that you don't have any
(14:11):
vineyards around you, so you're reallythe only people there, and so being
organic is an easy thing for youbecause you don't have possible contamination from any
vineyards around you that aren't organic,and so you're you're in a really great
almost like a pago in Spain.It's it's a real self enclosed estate um
and its own and its own entity. It's a really great way to put
(14:31):
it. The only contamination we get, Sorry about that, but the only
contamination we actually get is the rain, and there's nothing we can do about.
Now. You can't do anything aboutthat, of course exactly you should,
but you can welcome it. Atcertain times of the year. I
mean, we were there in April, it's really quite chilly. Do you
get much snow sometimes? You know, it's uh, it doesn't really snow
(14:54):
that much in Umbria, but inthe last years it's been actually snowing.
But you know, it snows forthat one week one slash two weeks per
like per year, maybe the monthsof January and February sometimes, but it
doesn't stay that much. You know, it always lows for like behalf a
meter, like it would be likea miracle, you know, but so
(15:16):
not that much. But of courseit gets really cold as well. You
know, when I was on thetour with you, you mentioned something about
the historic name from Monte Faco binCoca Rone. Oh yeah, that's one
of the as I said at thebeginning, there's um you know them,
(15:37):
there is no like, there's notmany stories. I mean sorry, there's
many stories on the history of Stagarantino, of the great variety, you know,
because there is no actual realm studythat has been made on the actual
BNA of of the of the ofthe grape Sagantino. But one of it
(15:58):
was the name was given Sargentino becausethere was the Frederick the Second who I
was actually born in yaz which isin the Marqui region, which is actually
pretty close to Ubria. And oneof the legend is that he was fascinated
by falcons and he was really likea falcon hunter, you know, and
(16:18):
all around the area there in Montefalcosand Saragano if you lift up, like
if you look up in the skies, especially around this period, you will
see a lot of hawks, falconsand hawks, and so he came to
the area. He was just passingby, and this is the time that
Montefalco, the city, the townof Montefalco, was actually named Kokne.
(16:41):
So he changed the name to Mountefalcobecause he was filled with falcons, of
course, and also because the legendsays, of course that one of his
own personal falcon got injured and thepriests from from the cathedral of the church
of Montefalco they cured this falcon makinga paste with the grapes of Sagarantino,
(17:06):
because the priests were the actually theonly ones who were who were actually planting
the grape variety of Sagarantino, becausehe was used in church, you know,
for religion purposes, and they usedthe grapes to cure one of the
falcons. And so from there likehe changed their name to Mount of Falcons.
You know, Montefalco make more sense, it does. It's a great
(17:30):
story. So what what was Cocarroni? Then? Why Cocni because there's a
restaurant in Yeah, there is stilla restaurant that is has the name Cocrone
and you know ki is in themodern languages named Cocone, but in Latin
it was called cars, which Ithink in the something about the crowns um
(17:53):
not don't really, I still needto read about that. My father knows
more about all of the stories andthe legends and everything else. I'm going
into the viticultural side. I lookmore into the ground and into the wine.
Let's say, well, you know, it's all about where you come
from, which is why when youtold me that, my interest was sparked,
(18:14):
because it is such a when youwhen we visit a region and we
learned about the name of a wine, we always wonder how did the wine
get that name? In Sagrantino issuch a major your sacred sa it's a
it's such a deep, very intensivename for a very deep intensive wine,
(18:34):
and it is powerful, right ohyeah. One of also the interesting part
which like if you connect the dots, you know, it's all a weird
and funny coincidence if you actually translate, because Friender of the Second was actually
fluent in Urbica as well, becausehe was also um like also he became
(18:57):
also the king of Jerusalem for afor quite some time. But if you
translate in Rabic falcon or hawk intoEnglish, like you know, if you
do the translation, it's actually pronouncedsakra, you know, so it comes
so you see that there is anactual connection that you know, with the
name, which is a it's veryfunny. Actually, you know, there
(19:22):
should be more studies, I believe, into the actual legends you know,
of the Sagarantino. But yeah,it's it's a funny coincidence. Well,
at the press conference held the lastnight of Entreprema Montefalco, a professor did
give a fairly lengthy poetic explanation aboutthe meaning behind the name, and it
(19:45):
was a very interesting Thankfully it wastranslated well, but sometimes they're not.
But that's why I asked, solet's do talk about Let's talk about the
grape itself, the Montefalco Sagarrantino,because it is unique to this area,
it has very distinct characteristics. Talkto us about it. Well, you
know, I'm a big fan ofthe Sagarentino. I believe that you kind
(20:08):
of need to, you know,have a palette for it, of course,
because it's super interesting grape. Imaginethat here that I'm in Bordeaux where
I'm doing my master now in beauticulture. So most of my professors, they
are all like experts in the grapevarieties and studying, you know, which
great variety would actually work in thefuture with all of the climate change and
(20:29):
everything. When I talk to themabout the sagarentino, they actually had no
idea about it because it's a veryemerging grape variety. And the fun the
most interesting thing is that people stillthink that the tenniest wine in the world
and the one that has the mostamount of polyphenols is actually tannat But in
reality sagarentino has the double amount ofpolyphenols, which is super interesting polyphenols.
(20:55):
Also inside the polyphones you can findalso antioxidants. So in a way,
a class of sagarentino a day canactually really keep the doctor away. It
can really be like healthy, youknow. But yeah, so it's a
it's a tough gray variety as wellto to to work on. You know.
The skin is very very thick.It's a kind of like a late
(21:18):
ripening variety, and it makes thisvery very powerful and dark wine. It
used to be called nundo or actuallyat one point the farmers around the area
they wouldn't even call it sagarantino whenthey were producing, and they were calling
it vinundo, which is black wine, which is very very you know,
rough, and it was actually kindof easier to make it as a macito,
(21:41):
you know, as a sweet wine, because every time they would make
it make it maybe as a drywine. I'm talking about the many many
years ago. Maybe they didn't haveactually the technology and all of it,
like, you know, the methodsto actually make it very you know,
approachable for for the palette, youknow, say, would they would actually
ride it out and make it asa posito. But of course, like
(22:02):
some wineries, they started to adoptand make more into the dry wine,
which made it of course, uh, the sigarentino today. You know,
it's interesting, but most producers inMontefalco that make sagarantino do make it in
both styles still, so you're theymake it, of course, which is
very cort but they also make itas a posito, which is the sweet
(22:25):
wine. And their lovely wines.I love the positos when they come from
red grapes, and it doesn't happenvery often, but the sago positos are
delicious. Yeah. I I learnedalso, which I found interesting, that
there's a real tradition of drinking positoin Montefalco, as you mentioned many times,
it was made. First it wasa Sunday wine, a Sunday lunch
(22:48):
wine that um families would drink withtheir lamb and their roast meats, where
many with the posito is a dessertwine. But with all the producers that
I met with during this last trip, when they brought out the posito one,
I said, tell me how youwould drink it. They all said,
with savory meats and savory cheeses,and dessert was never really occasionally it
(23:12):
was mentioned, and some of theones I tasted and really I got it,
you know. And you when wewere at to New the Sarragona,
we did it. You brought outsome blue cheese, you brought out like
three things to taste with the wines, and you could just get it as
you tasted. Oh yes, no, But of course, to correct myself
(23:34):
again, maybe I wasn't here before. Placito can of course be drank also
with meats as well, now withjust the dessert. But yeah, with
the with the lamb is something else. Like with the lamb is fantastic.
It's like one of the best combinationsyou can actually make. Acito with the
lamb is actually called to be here. It's fantastic and yeah with a little
(23:55):
um jam. Yeah. I foundthat these wines I love in Santo,
but the pasidos here in Montefalco,they were not overly sweet. There were
some wonderful floral and cocoa which Ifound very pleasant and really went well with
some of the different non traditional,you know, not in sweet dishes that
(24:18):
we would be used to here inthe United States. But of course most
of the pasitos are limited production andusually limited to what the families serve.
You. Is your posito commercially available? It is commercially available. We still
didn't we still have a production ofpasito because we stopped many years ago to
(24:38):
produce it. But now we startedagain in twenty nineteen, and we are
not certified. We didn't certify ityet as a DUCG pasito because we're still
working in it, you know,and we're still like perfectioning it again.
But it is fantastic. And youhave these notes of dark olive olives,
(25:00):
and and I catch a honey,you know, it's like a it's very
like interesting combinations on the nose andespecially on the mouth. It's it's very
very smooth. But we're still workingon it. To actually commercialize it and
you know, also do the certificationof the DIOCG again and everything. For
now, we are more concentrated indoing our dry Sagarentino and and the other
(25:25):
white wines that we produce. Wellwe you know, as we said,
the new Village is the two thousandand nineteen. We also tasted some older
vintages, which I think was veryhelpful because obviously the New Village is still
very tight but shows incredible promise umand I think I had a few that
I was ready to actually drink now, but most of you want to lay
down. We tasted with you.I think it was a two thousand and
(25:49):
seven, two thousand and seven,the two thousand and sixteen, which is
a great vintage. Every time we'vehad two thousand and sixteen atly, it's
been pretty good, right, reallygood. You know. There you could
just see where the promise was delivered. You know, with the twenty nineteen,
there's a promise, the deliver thedelivery really kind of came about five
(26:11):
or six years later. And Ithought that the two thousand and sixteen was
really level. You only make whattwo thousand and six fifty bottles. It's
limited, but there was a lotof I left the liquorice notes and macerated.
I wrote down the dark fruit andI kept getting touches of anis and
leather. It's really really beautiful.Oh yeah, I mean, you know,
(26:33):
Secentino. It's a great variety thatneeds a long time. You need
to be patient. And for example, the right now you tasted the two
thousand and sixteen, and it's actuallythe current vintage that we're selling right now,
sixteen. We of course we gavea bottle just to try the nineteen,
but our nineteen is still in thebarrel. Actually we bottle it yet.
So we gave like a testing ofcourse because of the antipanema. But
(26:56):
the nineteen is still very young,of course, and I gave it always
whenever like people come around, alwaysmake them taste, you know, older
vintages to actually understand, you know, where is it going and as well
as it's it's it's a wine thatreally evolves like a lot throughout the years.
(27:17):
So if you keep it in upcorrect like you know, in the
correct way, in the perfect locationand everything, it's a wine that can
last like for a long long time. You know, all of the amounts
of polyphenols and as well also likethe high alcohol level keeps you know,
this all gives like an advantage oflike an amazing longevity you know for the
(27:38):
wine. M Yeah, I thinkpeople, I think patients is a good
term for sacrantine and understand it's awine to put down and drink at a
specific time. Don't rush it.As well, we sell the the sixteen
because in in I mean, youknow, our idea is like I need
to sell you a product that isready to drink. You know, I
(28:00):
can't give you a wine that youknow, here, have it, but
don't drink it. Keep it andyou know, keep it aside. Like
you're gonna be like, no,that's your job. You're supposed to keep
it aside. I'm supposed to giveyou a product that is ready to drink.
Of course, you can choose tokeep it aside or not. But
if I'm selling you a wine,you know that wine needs to be either
ready to drink or you know,kept aside for even better. Well,
(28:25):
I think that's one of the nicethings about Segrenttino, because you know,
we tasted a bunch of sixteens,which is a good year. Seventeens eighteens
and nineteens while we were there,and they were they were all well made,
and they all had drink ability attheir ages right yet they also had
the ability to age for a longtime, because I think we were drinking
ten and fifteen year old Sagarentinos aswell, which we're just tasting beautifully right
(28:49):
now. Well we taste it inseven as well. Yeah, the seven.
You see that it was beautiful downbecause you see all of the you
know, the everything that is extralet's say, precipitated down in the bottle.
So then literally like the only thegood stuff just stayed up there too,
ready to be drunk, you know. Yeah, really nice. You
(29:11):
know what I was impressed with thistrip or the Monte Faco rosos, particularly
reserves um, which are a different, completely different Sagarantino. Montefaco is a
DOOCG, very specific one hundred percentSagarantino, but the Monte Faco Rosos are
blends. I think the is it? They can be maximum sixty percent send
(29:33):
you no minimum minimum, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, minimum sixty percent send
you a bes and then um.Most were blended with Sagarantino and often with
Marlo, so it rounds everything out, um, including what you offer.
We had your Roso twenty seventeen ina reserv exactly, yeah, so we
(29:55):
had for now we have the RosaMontefalconos. Of course, also that he's
at we have sixty percent of SanjoBezi. Then there is the twenty five
percent of Merlo and fifteen percent ofSagarentino for the Rosolimontefalco. But on the
Rizerva there is a five percent moreSagarentino, so there is twenty percent Merlo
and twenty percent Sagarentino. And thenof course it stays long a bit longer
(30:18):
of course in the barrel because ithas to be to be at Rizerva,
but also the we choose the actualbest barrels out of all of them to
keep aside to make the Zerva.We don't make the Rezeva every year.
We only choose specific years to makeit. For example, the twenty sixteen
actually that we had it last year, we have almost like actually we have
(30:40):
no bottles left. I think wehave maybe one hundred bottles that we keep
aside just for us, you know, because it went completely sold out,
because it was a fantastic wine.We were actually awarded for this competition of
one hundred best wines in Italy.Actually, and yeah, it was very
We're very happy about it. Weren'tyou impressed by the mont the Mountefalco Rosso's,
(31:04):
David, Well, I'm a hugefan of Hey, I'm a huge
fan of sand begin with. Andsanz is probably the most predominant white red
grape in central Italy, right,and it grows very well in Tuscany,
of course, as we all know, and also in Umbrio, so they
utilize a lot of sanjaves and Umbriand I think it marries really well with
(31:26):
the Sagrantino as a blend. Theycompliment each other, they're really and of
course adding a bit of merlot isjust you know, that's you know,
gives a little bit of elegance ofcourse, and a bit of elegance in
under the touch. Yeah, reallyreally lovely wines, um and so you
know, for you know, forpeople who I think also the montefalco Rosso's
(31:48):
were a bit less had less alcoholby volume. Some people may not be
able to embrace a fifteen point fiveand sixteen percent said alcohol by volume,
which many so many Montifoco Sabrantinas are, which it does limit your ability to
drink through lots of it. Yeah, so so the Montifoco Rosa's ten ten,
(32:12):
but not always because I think yoursare fifteen percent as well, But
you have to be prepared for that. Look at these are wines for food.
Um oh you really are? Isthere a greade you like to work
with, particularly as you are workingin your viticultural role. What do you
like to work with? And why? Well, you know, I mean
(32:34):
working with the second of course,is always special. I mean for now,
like I don't really have too much. I mean, of course I'm
there just to you know, givesome advice and my opinions inside the vineyards.
But as well, you know,my dad is still there of course,
and he takes the most of thedecisions in all of the vineyards.
That's I have to of course,it's true. But you know, talking
(32:55):
about also the alcohol percentage in thefuture, I mean, it's gonna be
hard to you know, put thealcohol percentage down because if you really want,
you know, really like ripe grapes, you know, right, cloth
like the ripe grapes especially, andhave you know the best perfumes and the
best aromas with these temperatures, youknow, you need to leave the you
(33:20):
know, the grape on the plantfor longer, because if you if you
harvest before it's it's gonna be youknow, it's not it's going to be
good for this grape variety because you'regonna have a like a highest too much
a facility, you know. Andand especially you're working with the tannins,
you know, especially for these wines, and if the tannins are not ripe,
they're going to be green, andthey're gonna be you know, aggressive
(33:40):
on the teeth, you know,on the palette. So it is of
course they're they're high on alcohol.But the most important thing is that of
course you need to eat with it, but then they need to be balanced
out. So some of our wines, I don't know if you you've tried
them, there are fifteen sixty.We produce also a white wine that is
actually fourteen point five, which isvery high as well, but when you
(34:02):
drink it, it doesn't bother you, like that's the most important thing.
But at the same time it givesthat importance, you know, when you
have it on the nose, youyou have all of these aromas that are
really like you know, developed throughoutthe time that the grape variety was still
on the plant. You know,we we harvest very late, all of
(34:22):
our all of our harvest is verylate. The sigentino. Sometimes we go
around the end of October, sometimeseven at the beginning of November. And
there's always a clash between which is, yeah, it's very late. There's
always a clash between Ivan being karate, which is actually our master. Let's
say that on one of our winesthat he's the business partner of my father
(34:44):
inside the winery, and we reallyhave to thank him, you know,
because our wines honestly have a signaturebecause of him, because really he has
really like a touch, you know, for our wines. And you can
really when you whenever you drink ourwines and you you drink it also with
(35:04):
other type of wines, you recognizehis hand, you know, you recognize
that his method. And there's alwaysa clash every year between my father and
even saying, you know, wehave to harvest, and even it's like
no, we're not, no,We're gonna have to wait, wait more,
wait more, And he's always rightat the end of the day.
Every every year is always right.Of course, the alcohol level increased,
but the wines are fantastic, youknow, you have beautiful at almost how
(35:28):
long has even worked with your family? I mean he even entered in the
in the in the business of thewinery because right now the winery is actually
we have combined with him, youknow, so the wine the winery itself
is uh, it's owned also byEvan, So you and my dad they
became business partner. This was aroundtwelve years ago, if if I'm not
(35:52):
wrong, Yeah, something like that. And yeah, from him, we
actually like have we had a hugelike huge success, especially on the white
our Mountaquo, which is we're onehundred percent. Like it became really interesting
with him, like he's the oneto who made the big change, you
(36:13):
know, especially on the Mountequel.We still have like other you know,
lots of people coming to us andasking us a lot of questions on how
do you make this? Like howdoes these aroma come out like this?
This wine goes into barrel. We'relike, no, it doesn't, there's
literally no barrel. Well that's agood point because we want to bring up
the whites because I happened to lovethat wine. Um, and it is
(36:36):
one hundred percent Grekhato correct, Yes, and it's only um agent stateless to
be exact. Sorry, yeah,grequet to day. So how is grighetto
Dictota different from other grighettos? Isthere something that nuanced about it? You
know, there's in Italy has youknow, in Italy we have so many
(36:57):
great varieties that every fifty kilometers there'sanother great variety in Italy, you know.
So, and they're all named.Of course, they also have like
in a sense they have like theDNA, it's slightly different from one another,
but as well, you know,they also sometimes maybe they could be
also the same grape, but ifyou grow it somewhere else, it just
comes out as another wine, soyou give it another name, of course,
(37:20):
you know. And they though theis fantastic. It really really performs
really well in our area. Andthe Montakelo became kind of like an institution
right now, Like it's very veryinteresting that one does not touch wood,
only stainless steel. There is noteven a long masration. I mean,
the whole work is all done byleading it on the lease for a long
(37:45):
time. So the masration is noteven that long. It's just the lease,
you know. So and then ofcourse there's also like a I don't
know what even those to it,of course, but you know it's just
his hand, you know, isthe way the way he makes it makes
it interesting. Of course he doesn'tanything extra. No, I'm not gonna
I'm not gonna say that it doesn'tit's all made. Of course, our
(38:07):
philosophy in our wine, which isvery important, is that our wines,
wines is made in the vineyard,not in the winery. It's all a
matter of how you hold and howyou actually take care of the actual plants.
That's the most important thing. Andknowing your plants the best way possible,
knowing when to harvest, knowing whento you know, do the pruning,
(38:31):
knowing when you have to do thewinter pruning or also the green pruning.
That's the most essential thing. Andthis is our philosophy. And then
you just have to accompany the grapejuice all the way to the bottle.
But there's not much work done inthe winery. It's all done in the
vineyard. That's the most important thing. I love this wine. I couldn't
(38:53):
agree more. You know, Ilove the wine too, and we also
we also they also they put atwenty one for us, which is the
current vintage. But then they alsobrought out a bottle of the twenty eighteen,
which I which I just adored.Do you get that one? Well,
I told, I told them withyou yeah, well we had to
(39:14):
make it a bit interesting. Soas the but the monte Cielo as it
aged, I thought it got thiseven though there's no malalactic I believe right,
No, no, no, itlooks like yeah because it because it
had a beautiful buttery character to itseighteen. It really had a lovely kind
(39:35):
of creaminess to it, but itdidn't give for your malalactic, so it
was it's a really interesting thing.You also make a Montefelco bianco um that
is made well, yeah, Tribianospoletino, which is really kind of the
main white grape of the region,and then also thirty percent grikeeto. Tell
us about that, and tell usa little bit about Trebiano Spoletino, because
it's a very interesting grape for usand and for you guys. It hasn't
(39:58):
been really made into a variet Ihad a wine in Montefaco for very long.
I think the first vintage we heardwas really in two thousand and seven
or two thousand and eight and thiswas from another winery. Um so exactly
because relatively new on the scene.But it's it's something that you guys are
going all in on and really makinga statement with so tell us about Trepiana
Spoleto. Yeah, yeah, itis, it is. It is a
(40:20):
great variety that has actually, youknow, been introduced recently inside the area
of Montefalco because it comes from Spoletooriginally. But I believe actually that and
not many years ago. I don'twant to I don't want to be incorrect,
but I believe I think like maybeseven or eight years ago or something
like that. It kind of youknow, um, there was an agreement,
(40:43):
let's say, between the between Spoletoand montefac that the that you know,
the great variety can also be introducedand used in the area of Montefalco.
And and this the Monteco came cameout, you know, got created,
let's say, and we only putMonteco, sorry for THEE, we
(41:05):
only have seventy percent of of ofgret sorry of of getting confused right now,
of the PO and the RST.So this is we only use these
two great varieties, which is theonly way to white grap price that we
have other wineries, I believe theyalso start putting other varieties and they also,
(41:28):
you know, they made a reallyreally good product. I've tried also
other Montefalco bianco from other one isthat they're very very interesting. But yeah,
it's a super super interesting, greatvariety and there is a lot of
demand in it, and I've seenthat the demand has been increasing throughout the
years. A lot of you knowUM consumers or like you know, UM
(41:49):
exporters, they're always asking like,do you produce tribano pollino? So,
yes, we do, but weonly only do the Monte Facianco because we
still are not we still don't producethe one hundred per santragostino. We kind
of like the blending of them,you know, gives it a bore of
like this floral you know aromas.Let's say that makes it a bit more
fresher than actually then because it's moreyou know, has like a unique taste.
(42:15):
But to blend them in there isthis flow like a flower aroma,
you know, which makes it veryinteresting. And this one also spends a
considerable time on lease as well.Correct. Yeah, so it's they're both
made in exactly the same method theour also the the gregat I like them
(42:38):
both. I actually I found thatthroughout the week. And this is our
second visit, and my first introductionto Trebiano Spellatino was in last fall.
I like the wine. They werenot consistently the same throughout. Some I
liked more. It's a very aromaticwine, which I happen to like aromatic
(42:58):
whites, so very like um.Sometimes they can go a little more honeyed,
sometimes more citrus, but I reallyenjoy them. And I also liked
them when they were blended with thegrigeto. I found some of these alone.
Some were a little less exciting forme than others. Again, they
were all over the place. Youknow. One of the nice things about
(43:21):
going to these on supremas is weget to do technical tastings. We just
sit in a room and boom,boom boom. They bring them to you
one after another, and you it'sreally like it's like palette push ups.
What's nice about it is you reallysee the different nuances in the wines.
And I think I hate that theTrebianus Pellatino would be a great wine to
really promote more in the United Statesbecause aromatic whites are popular here, but
(43:47):
it's still in its youth comparatively speaking. Oh yeah, no, no,
for sure, for sure it hasits very interesting on the almost sorry I
interrupted, not at all. Iwas just thinking. I was thinking it
would be a good way to havemore of in the Unitedation. I think
the production levels have rise too,yeah, meet that demand probably speaking of
(44:08):
youth, no pressure. It teasedyou because you are the thirty second generation
and you are going to be theheir apparent. Um, you're still young
and you're getting your masters and helpingat the winery and working with your dad.
What would do as your role increasesand evolves? What would you like
(44:29):
to see happen? Knowing that there'sso many issues in the wine world today,
to maintain not only your family legacy, but the respect for the land
and understanding that climate is changing,well, you know, Um, for
me, the most important thing andalso the most uh yeah, it's it's
also what my father has been doingfrom also from the past generations, is
(44:52):
to keep like the tradition, youknow, that is the most important thing
for us. So in terms ofthe technical side for the winery, I
already think that I don't think I'mgoing to increase the production. You know,
we produce around fifty thousand bottles ayear. This is that's the space
we have for the vineyards. Wehave twelve actors of vineyard um the winery.
(45:15):
It is how it is, youknow, we don't have also much
space to produce more and everything.But it is really focused on the quality
of the wines we give. SoI don't think I'll increase the quantity of
the of the production, of course, but at the same time, it's
also to maintain this standard because that'syou know, that of course what I
(45:36):
have to do. And I believethat our wines are you know, I
strongly believe that our wines are verygood. Just like not to be you
know, pretentious as well, butI really believe that, and so the
most important thing that I have todo is to maintain this standard and also
to be consistent with keeping you know, the tradition and you know, keeping
(46:00):
in the way it is, youknow, just of course to maybe slightly
you know, make it better insome aspects, but at the same time,
you know, to always maintain ourour you know, our history and
our tradition into our wine absolutely andbare fruit and definitely, you've kind of
(46:22):
you're you're going to maintain the family, You're going to maintain consistency. It's
you know, it's a beautiful placeand we want to, you know,
thank you for giving both of usvery highly personalized tours and tastings of Oh,
you're welcome the winery. And youknow, Tonda de Seregona is off
the beaten track. It is adestination winery truly without a wonderful place to
(46:46):
stay, which hopefully we could takeadvantage of next time. Um but we
are all about telling our listeners togo off the beaten track, to explore
and discover. The good news isto Nuda de Seregona's wines are also available
in the United States and UM,as are many of the Montefalco wines.
We taste it so we encourage operalisteners to ask their local retailer or their
(47:10):
samia, what do you have?We want to try something and see what
we can do. We appreciate yourtime. Thank you so much. Thanks,
thank you so much, and I'mexpecting you, of course at our
wine resort. We're we're going toexpect you there, especially also in the
restaurants with open arms. You know, well, we would look forward to
(47:34):
that, maybe coming at a differenttime of year where it's where we can
really spend some time with you alland and kind of do exact dive into
the into the culinary side of Saraganoas well. Yeah, yeah, take
a cooking class. Yeah, youknow, we didn't even touch all the
wonderful food we ate, right exactly. But also you know, the state
is there is waiting for you.But as as well, you know,
(47:55):
it's a place where you can dolots of activities from cooking classes, riding
tours and everything. But at thesame time, it's also very important that
you can come there and absolutely nothingand relax. That's the most important.
Well, it's a Bucolic place,Melanie, I have to say, it's
one of one of my one ofmy favorite visits while we were over there.
Yeah, me too as well.And you know it is about when
(48:17):
you do travel to these beautiful wineregions, don't rush it, savor it,
take time to enjoy and relax.So again we've been speaking with Googlielmo
Pongelli thirty seconds thirty second generation ofan esteemed noble family of Italy and family
(48:37):
proprietor at Tanuta di Serragono Vini DimantefalcoGrazzi Pertuti. I'll see you soon then.
Thank you for listening. We lookforward at Presto. Folks, you've
been listening to The Connected Table Livewith David Ransom and Melanie Young, and
as always we encourage you to getout and explore, expand your palette and
(48:59):
learn and taste and always stay insatiablycurious. Thank you,
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