June 17, 2025 • 29 mins
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Are you a songwriter? Are you looking to turn your
songwriting passion into a full time gig gig? Whether you
are just at the start of your songwriting journey or
a seasoned industry professional, this show is made for you. You
we would welcome to the Songwriter Show, bringing together songwriting, news,
interviews and communitating. Now welcome your houst Sarantos.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Welcome back to the Songwriter Show. I'm your host Sarantos,
a solo music artist and songwriter who's always believed in
the power of words. Here on the Songwriter Show, we
bring you behind the scenes with some of today's most
inspiring songwriters, giving you a small glimpse into the stories
that help shape their amazing songs. Today. I'm so happy
(00:45):
to have on the show book Ellenworth. He's a rising
country singer songwriter and he's quickly making a name for
himself in the music industry with his personal, heartfelt lyrics,
driving melodies and hooks that will have you hooked from
the very first listen. He was raised country and rock
and roll from a small town outside of Oxford, England.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
And now welcome this week's special guest guest.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Welcome to the show, bro Coworry Man.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
I'm good, thank you, good to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Ah, dude, I love your accent, man, I'm always jealous.
I wish I had a British or French accent or
something cooler than like Chicago. Do you get that a lot?
Speaker 3 (01:23):
I do a lot of people think I'm Australian mistaken
being the other way, you know, But I mean, if
you were to go to the UK, people are going
to love your accent.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Oh really, Okay, I was. Yeah, I'm trying hard not
to say mate or something because you're right. For a second,
I thought you're Australian and you listen to the accent
and the way you're talking, So that's cool.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Well that's Bridge night as well.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Yeah all right, I'm sure I'll slip out here or there,
but well, thank you for doing the show. You have
kind of a cool sound and I'm excited to talk
to you.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Yeah. Thanks man.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
When did this bug bite you?
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Man?
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Were you like teenager you and dunk Child? When did
it happen?
Speaker 3 (02:02):
The music bug bit me? At eight years old, I
wanted to learn how to play keys, and then saw
this local band play at this local blues and beers
festival called Roquefest. And all of a sudden, I went
from keys to guitar, and I was obsessed with guitar
and I have been ever since. And I started playing
at bands at the age of eleven, mainly rock stuff
(02:25):
throughout everything, and then the country bug really bit me
in twenty eighteen when I came to Nashville for the
first time.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Are you still in Nashville or do you fly back
and forth?
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Or I'll fly back and forth. I'm currently in Nashville
out here pushing the album. We just launched it over
here in town and did a launch show and I'm
very thankful for my PR company having me over at
CRS for a few days.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
That's very cool man. All right, So tell us about
how do you get started rating a song? Is it
just you and your guitar.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Usually there is a lyric or two, or the hook
will come to me. And I could be anywhere. I
could be driving, I could be in the gym, I
could be in the shower, I could be on the toilet.
Is about all the above above. I could be absolutely anywhere.
(03:20):
I could be buy my groceries, and if someone pops
into my head, I'll make a note that on my
notes app or your voice memo a lot, and then
I end up with a catalog of voice memos that
I don't even like name and it's just got the
location address, so and then I'll just sort of flick
through and see what bites.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
That's pretty cool. Do you have any famous musicians you'd marr.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Yeah, there's quite a few off the top of my head,
mainly songwriter and wise recently would have been a Kip
More and the Cadillac Three have always been one. If
someone was to ask me what my favorite country band was,
it probably the Cadillact Three because they've got all those
rock roots in They call their sound country fuzzs, and
their front man, Jaron Johnson is one of my favorite
(04:06):
songwriters as well.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Okay, cool half. You try to practice, no.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Honest, not enough. I feel I'm hoping that some other
people out there that can relate to that. Yeah, there's
songwritings always coming first then practicing. But I guess the
more and more songs you write, I guess that can
be classes practiced that are all sort of make it
to be a song or to be heard so a
(04:34):
few times a week, but yeah, definitely not enough.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
I think it's one of those weird things where you're
an indie songwriter and we all have kind of day jobs, Yeah,
and you want to devote twenty four to seven and
we do, you know, I think we really do. But
then these people that make it, they're like are partying,
and it's just there's always like a flip side to it, right.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Big time. Yeah, it's all about it's a big balancing game,
I think, especially at the time when I've got a
day job and I'm pushing a project or I'm recording
a project or whatever it is, or we're writing for it,
trying to find that balance between work and music and
songwriting and the practice, and then there's the rehearsals with
(05:20):
the band if you're prepping for gigs and whatever it is.
And yeah, there is definitely a it's a challenge trying
to find that balance sometimes.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Yeah, for sure. And it's interesting because on the flip side,
there are some very well known celebrities out there that
everybody thinks through all this crazy things and on the
inside track you hear about that they blow everything off
and then their musical directors kind of try to get
them in the studio to record an album and they
have everything done for them, and it's on the one hand,
(05:48):
you're kind of jealous. On the other hand, it's just
not your story, you know, Like, I could never do that,
even if I made it. I can't imagine not being
involved in my album and writing my songs myself. And yeah,
it's just crazy easy to think that.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Yeah, that wouldn't be true to me. And you have
to be true to yourself, especially especially in this industry.
You want your audience and your fans to know that
you're being honest. Yeah, I know that it is your everything.
And if you've just got teams and teams of people
doing everything for you and you're not in the studio
and you're you're you're gonna go and cut your vocals
(06:22):
with someone else, and then the whole bands don't everything
by themselves. Yeah, I don't get that.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Not only that, I totally don't get it, but then
you hear them in public around stage talk about their
inspiration for the song, and you know that they had
nothing to do with it. They just bought the music
or they bought the and it's just it's so offensive.
But I don't know what can you even say to that.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
You know, Yeah, I've heard some stories with some songwriters
that have they've cut someone else's song. Keith Urban, for instance,
I know that he's cut some songs and then he's gone,
like before he's cut and he's gone beca I'm gonna
speak the songwriters because I'm going to re write the
second verse. Want to make sure they're okay with that,
just so it fits me a bit better. Because I
(07:03):
love the song. I love what it's saying. Yeah, but
I rewrite that second verse so I can relate to
it more. Well, I guess that point that's just that's
that cool because then you get in the best of
both worlds.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Yeah, as opposed to people buying your stuff for yeah anyway,
and not to get distracted, but yeah, I think it's uh,
and I don't know. I sometimes don't know what they're thinking.
But tell us about you, what do you think is
like the biggest mistake people make in your genre? In
country singer songwriters, what do you think is the biggest mistake.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
They make coming off the back of what we're just
speaking about, is selling out, I guess, and yeah, not
being honest to yourself and to your music and your
craft and taking something that someone's told you to take
and you're just you're taking orders from someone and it's
might not be your honest direction. So yeah, I think
(07:56):
the biggest mistake you.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
Can make, I mean, in my opinion and in my position,
will be selling out and cutting that song that means
absolutely nothing to you, but someone's told you that it's
going to make you hundreds of thousands of.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Dollars or pounds, whatever it is. Yeah, yeah, I think
that'll be the biggest mistake you can make.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
The saddest thing in the world, too, is I've a
couple bigger artists that get pigeonholed in a certain genre
and then they have to kind of keep doing that
kind of music even though they didn't really want to
do it in the first place, and I almost feel
sorry for them.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Yeah, and yeah, they could be painted into a corner
if it's through, you know, legally, if they've signed agreements
or you know, I mean, if you've got a record contract.
I mean I don't have one. But from what I've
learned about them is that they can definitely be in
(08:52):
charge of you a lot as an artist and creatively,
and yeah, they could definitely pigeonhole you and paint you
into that corner. Yeah, yeah, No, that is, and that
is incredibly sad, and you just need to again, it's
all just down to be intruding yourself and trying to
get back on that trajectory that you were meant to
be on.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
For sure, tell us about this song we're going to hear.
What inspired this one?
Speaker 3 (09:13):
My dad said something one day and well, no, I
was speaking to my dad and we were outside I'm
a bear and I was speaking about there was some
girl in my life, and I was also looking at
this guitar and there wasn't any like this isn't actually
made between them, but I was. I was just roll
the dice on the girl or the guitar sort of thing.
(09:35):
And again I just like wrote it down, didn't really
know what it meant. And then I was in Nashville.
I was writing for the first time with my good
friend Jason Rettig. I had this. I was futting through
my notes. I was like, Hey, I'm going to bring
this and bring this one to the table today. Maybe
we can make something of it. And the song ended
up being about it is it's rolling the dice on
(09:57):
someone on love on a per and it's the whole
thing of how love can be a gamble. That's what
the song's about. And there's like there's a journey through it.
There's a lot of questions through it, and like the
first verse for instance, and there's a lot of waiting
in the second. Okay, it's just all the big questions.
(10:19):
It's like should I roll the dice on you?
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Awesome man? All right, tell you what. Let's take a
listen and we'll come back and talk after that. Okay,
hell yeah, all right, everybody check this out. Here we go.
Speaker 5 (10:40):
I don't know what it is.
Speaker 6 (10:42):
It's been something bounty.
Speaker 7 (10:49):
You're a little long while side been heard of time
or two. I know you don't know how this wall.
Speaker 5 (11:10):
I'm ride. If you want to go on, shoot, I
have rop roll the dice on you. Shoult I rope.
(11:31):
I got nothing.
Speaker 8 (11:32):
Left on it.
Speaker 5 (11:37):
That I should walk away. I'm addicted to your game.
My hearts on the table is too late? Should I
roll roll the dice on you? This your tom to
(12:02):
make the next move.
Speaker 6 (12:07):
I'm not going anywhere, girl, I'm waiting on you could.
Speaker 5 (12:17):
Wave me too, kind a perfect pa. If you want
to go on here, well, I'm not.
Speaker 8 (12:34):
Should I run.
Speaker 5 (12:39):
Road dies on you? Should I R.
Speaker 6 (12:49):
I got nothing left to love? I should walk away.
I'm an dick the trell game.
Speaker 5 (13:01):
My art's on the table today. Should I ro.
Speaker 9 (13:10):
Rolling dice on you?
Speaker 10 (13:51):
Should roll.
Speaker 5 (13:55):
Rolling dice on you? She and I'm nothing less national
walk away. I'm addicted to you? Okay, my arts on
(14:17):
the tables to.
Speaker 11 (14:20):
Sh rolling dice on you, rolling dice on you.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
So do the fans push you to do certain kind
of songs or do they influence you in any way?
Or is it just you and your team or you
and your your love life.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
No, I wouldn't say that the fans have pushed me
in any sort of direction. I feel like artists develop
naturally anyway. And if you're let's say you're planning a
show and let's say you've got your setlis down and
you're certain on it, and there's like a lull in
the in the set and you can see at the
crowded just getting uninterested or the energy has just dropped
(16:04):
completely and it's not in a good way. At those
kind of stages, I feel like fans can have an
impact on what you then play live. You could like
you just turned the band be It's like, hey, let's
drop this next song. Let's switch out with this, we
might not even play it. But no, I'm very true
to myself with what I write and what I put out.
(16:27):
And someone came up to me the other night and
I was just like, you didn't play this song, like
this is your best song, and I was like, well,
it's not. Yeah, I'm not gonna play it, and that's
just because I still want it, you know. So No,
I'm very I'm gonna do what I want, and I'm
(16:48):
gonna put out what I think is going to work
and what I love and what i'm passionate about.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Yeah, I get it. I actually think it's really funny
to hear famous people talk about they have a hit
song and that's sort of but he wants to hear,
and then they're like, I'm so sick of playing it.
I'm like, man, if I have a hit song or
two or ten of them, I'm going to play the
shit out of that thing. I'm not going to get
sick of it. I mean, if you get a hit,
you could play your other fifty songs too. But I
don't get it. I don't get up people complain about
(17:15):
playing their hit and I'm talking about like a number
one hit, not like you know, one fan thinks sometimes
a great song I.
Speaker 12 (17:21):
Agree with you there as well, So well, this song
that might be the song that made them, you know,
and they're going to have royalties and it.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
I mean, that song will be the one that pays
the bills or buys the house or puts new ties
on your cars. And yeah, I'm the same. I'm in
the same boat as you as I don't get how
they can complain about it to play it, I can
I can see, I can see how it might get
(17:53):
you might get sick of it a bit like the
song I take bon Jovi for instance, I'm living on
a prayer? Yeah, how many times have they saying that song?
And you God, I mean there might there must be
nights then there will definitely be nights where they're going
to go, Okay, we'll play it with a prayer again.
And especially when artists have such a huge catalog, when
(18:16):
they're further down the line in their career and they
could they could pick from hundreds of hundreds of tracks.
But then there's yeah, there arewise those fan favorites.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
That you have to throw in and if you really
think about it, right, unless you're Taylor Swift or someone
who most people, you could have a bunch of hits,
but really, how many number one hits did most people have,
even like super famous people like Katie Pierry have had
like I don't know, six or seven or eight. So yeah,
like I said, I know, you get sick of it,
but I would play that thing if that's what they
want to hear. There's just no reason not to do that.
(18:48):
No matter how sick of it you are. You can
reinvent it, you can do a cappellas, you can change up,
but you can try to play.
Speaker 5 (18:55):
Around with it.
Speaker 13 (18:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
I mean, Plus, you play live because it's it's the feeling.
It's the adrenaline that no drug can give you, and
it's the way an audience just pushes all this energy
out and that's what you're getting. And when you're playing
those huge songs that they've bought tickets to see, Like
(19:18):
if you've just dropped an album and you're doing an
album tour, it's a brand new record, ye, people, there
are still many fans that are going to buy those
tickets that want to hear those two songs off your
last record, you know, and they'll spend hundreds of dollars
or pounds on it and that's what they want to hear.
So then I mean, you owe it to them. You
owe it to the fans, because if it wasn't for them,
(19:41):
you wouldn't be where you are for sure. How do
you get people to take you seriously as a songwriter? Oh? Wow, wow, Okay,
I'm very careful about the songs I put out. I
guess man, some some days I feel like I'm still
trying to figure it out. But I believe. I believe
(20:03):
in my songs that I put out, and I put
a lot of emotion into my material and a lot
of my heart into it, and I'm just I just
always hoped that people can see that when they see
me play or they hear my songs. Yeah, and yeah,
as long as you're being truthful, I feel like you
can be taken serious as a song right.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
I totally get that. How do you avoid scams or
getting ripped off? I'd like to ask that question of
the guests, because I think we've all kind of fallen
for something at one point or another.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
Yeah, I mean, especially when it's come to like concert
tickets and stuff like that, or people pretending to be
a promoter or a publishing deal or whatever it is,
look for spelling mistakes because they're always full of them
the way that's for your name and that sort of stuff.
But also I've had a lot of it come through.
(20:58):
I haven't fallen for anything in my career about it.
I've been scammed through some gig tickets before, but I've
got a I'm very thankful to know a good bunch
of friends that are lawyers or in the music business industry,
and they've always said, if anything ever comes your way
(21:18):
and you have any doubt about it, or if you're
going to sign something, send it to me and I'll
look over it. And I have used that so many times,
and it has saved me so many times.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Well, people in the industry are, like you said, lawyers,
They can I think spot things better than the average
musician for sure.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Well I mean, I mean that's their job. Yeah, you know,
but yeah, it is. It's hard sometimes, I mean, especially
when someone reads too good to be true. That's sort
of when I start asking questions and flags get raised.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Yeah, we bought up.
Speaker 8 (21:51):
In there, man.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
We all want to believe. But I hear you so
tell us about where people can buy and stream your stuff.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Every streaming platform that exists. My music's on there under Brokellingworth.
Brookellingworth dot COM's my website that will take you to
the main platforms that will take you to the socials
and any news and tour dates and then social wise
everything that's under brokelling Worth Music.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
That's awesome, man. I want to thank you so much
for being on the show tonight. It was an absolute
blast and I think you're going to do very well
in your career.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
I really appreciate that. That's so conn. Thanks for having
me again.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
You're welcome, man. So to all the listeners out there,
thank you for spending a little bit of your precious
time with the two of us tonight. If you wish
to be on The Songwriter Show, please go to the
website and just flot the interview request for him. To
the rest of you, thank you again for listening. We
both hope your own unique story gets heard around the
world too. My name is Soroantos. Please join me every
single Tuesday evening to other awesome artists here. They're fascinating
(22:51):
and very cool behind the scenes stories right here at
the Songwriter Show on Reality Radio one to one. I
love you all. Have a great night.
Speaker 13 (23:25):
Been a long day and I really missed you.
Speaker 5 (23:32):
Feel real good.
Speaker 14 (23:33):
When I come home, I read a work was long
and just all.
Speaker 13 (23:43):
Who had cut me through the day. I was remembering
our first kiss in the school.
Speaker 10 (23:49):
Yeah, I love myself and your one.
Speaker 15 (23:57):
I sit around and wave fad come home all day.
Speaker 14 (24:04):
I think of you, fail you hold of me.
Speaker 15 (24:09):
Can't wait for your or through the dog so I
can kiss your body.
Speaker 14 (24:16):
Yes, there's a country song I.
Speaker 8 (24:26):
Like to do.
Speaker 14 (24:28):
We by my side. I got I needs.
Speaker 5 (24:40):
It's so simple, just so this song.
Speaker 13 (25:09):
I'm not gonna let your tongue connor trust you wait
scene for life time A promise you can depend on me.
Speaker 14 (25:25):
Life's about then you.
Speaker 5 (25:27):
You're the best guy ever had.
Speaker 14 (25:31):
I take it long because you took away in the.
Speaker 10 (25:33):
Back simber fea.
Speaker 5 (25:38):
Cocy my swing. I also greateful for you given me.
Speaker 10 (25:48):
A little house, sony of town and a.
Speaker 8 (25:55):
Face gor.
Speaker 15 (26:00):
This.
Speaker 14 (26:01):
There is a country song I Ralph.
Speaker 7 (26:07):
And his wife and I.
Speaker 14 (26:12):
When you buy the side, I got.
Speaker 10 (26:16):
Nothing that I need to get me.
Speaker 14 (26:26):
Always make me feel like such a helpless fool.
Speaker 8 (26:31):
Sound to.
Speaker 14 (26:35):
How as hell on you? You just get hide deep beside.
Speaker 5 (26:43):
The fact that.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Thank you for listening to The Songwriter Show. To keep
the momentum going, head over to www. Dot songwriter show
dot com and join our free music community of artists, songwriters,
and producers.
Speaker 5 (27:13):
That's www.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Dot songwriter show dot com.
Speaker 8 (28:10):
Many many, many.
Speaker 10 (28:30):
Name at m Hang Hello a
Speaker 8 (29:28):
Hango.
Are you a songwriter? Are you looking to turn your
songwriting passion into a full time gig gig? Whether you
are just at the start of your songwriting journey or
a seasoned industry professional, this show is made for you. You
we would welcome to the Songwriter Show, bringing together songwriting, news,
interviews and communitating. Now welcome your houst Sarantos.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Welcome back to the Songwriter Show. I'm your host Sarantos,
a solo music artist and songwriter who's always believed in
the power of words. Here on the Songwriter Show, we
bring you behind the scenes with some of today's most
inspiring songwriters, giving you a small glimpse into the stories
that help shape their amazing songs. Today. I'm so happy
(00:45):
to have on the show book Ellenworth. He's a rising
country singer songwriter and he's quickly making a name for
himself in the music industry with his personal, heartfelt lyrics,
driving melodies and hooks that will have you hooked from
the very first listen. He was raised country and rock
and roll from a small town outside of Oxford, England.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
And now welcome this week's special guest guest.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Welcome to the show, bro Coworry Man.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
I'm good, thank you, good to be here.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Ah, dude, I love your accent, man, I'm always jealous.
I wish I had a British or French accent or
something cooler than like Chicago. Do you get that a lot?
Speaker 3 (01:23):
I do a lot of people think I'm Australian mistaken
being the other way, you know, But I mean, if
you were to go to the UK, people are going
to love your accent.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Oh really, Okay, I was. Yeah, I'm trying hard not
to say mate or something because you're right. For a second,
I thought you're Australian and you listen to the accent
and the way you're talking, So that's cool.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Well that's Bridge night as well.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Yeah all right, I'm sure I'll slip out here or there,
but well, thank you for doing the show. You have
kind of a cool sound and I'm excited to talk
to you.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Yeah. Thanks man.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
When did this bug bite you?
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Man?
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Were you like teenager you and dunk Child? When did
it happen?
Speaker 3 (02:02):
The music bug bit me? At eight years old, I
wanted to learn how to play keys, and then saw
this local band play at this local blues and beers
festival called Roquefest. And all of a sudden, I went
from keys to guitar, and I was obsessed with guitar
and I have been ever since. And I started playing
at bands at the age of eleven, mainly rock stuff
(02:25):
throughout everything, and then the country bug really bit me
in twenty eighteen when I came to Nashville for the
first time.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Are you still in Nashville or do you fly back
and forth?
Speaker 3 (02:34):
Or I'll fly back and forth. I'm currently in Nashville
out here pushing the album. We just launched it over
here in town and did a launch show and I'm
very thankful for my PR company having me over at
CRS for a few days.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
That's very cool man. All right, So tell us about
how do you get started rating a song? Is it
just you and your guitar.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Usually there is a lyric or two, or the hook
will come to me. And I could be anywhere. I
could be driving, I could be in the gym, I
could be in the shower, I could be on the toilet.
Is about all the above above. I could be absolutely anywhere.
(03:20):
I could be buy my groceries, and if someone pops
into my head, I'll make a note that on my
notes app or your voice memo a lot, and then
I end up with a catalog of voice memos that
I don't even like name and it's just got the
location address, so and then I'll just sort of flick
through and see what bites.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
That's pretty cool. Do you have any famous musicians you'd marr.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Yeah, there's quite a few off the top of my head,
mainly songwriter and wise recently would have been a Kip
More and the Cadillac Three have always been one. If
someone was to ask me what my favorite country band was,
it probably the Cadillact Three because they've got all those
rock roots in They call their sound country fuzzs, and
their front man, Jaron Johnson is one of my favorite
(04:06):
songwriters as well.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Okay, cool half. You try to practice, no.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Honest, not enough. I feel I'm hoping that some other
people out there that can relate to that. Yeah, there's
songwritings always coming first then practicing. But I guess the
more and more songs you write, I guess that can
be classes practiced that are all sort of make it
to be a song or to be heard so a
(04:34):
few times a week, but yeah, definitely not enough.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
I think it's one of those weird things where you're
an indie songwriter and we all have kind of day jobs, Yeah,
and you want to devote twenty four to seven and
we do, you know, I think we really do. But
then these people that make it, they're like are partying,
and it's just there's always like a flip side to it, right.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
Big time. Yeah, it's all about it's a big balancing game,
I think, especially at the time when I've got a
day job and I'm pushing a project or I'm recording
a project or whatever it is, or we're writing for it,
trying to find that balance between work and music and
songwriting and the practice, and then there's the rehearsals with
(05:20):
the band if you're prepping for gigs and whatever it is.
And yeah, there is definitely a it's a challenge trying
to find that balance sometimes.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Yeah, for sure. And it's interesting because on the flip side,
there are some very well known celebrities out there that
everybody thinks through all this crazy things and on the
inside track you hear about that they blow everything off
and then their musical directors kind of try to get
them in the studio to record an album and they
have everything done for them, and it's on the one hand,
(05:48):
you're kind of jealous. On the other hand, it's just
not your story, you know, Like, I could never do that,
even if I made it. I can't imagine not being
involved in my album and writing my songs myself. And yeah,
it's just crazy easy to think that.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
Yeah, that wouldn't be true to me. And you have
to be true to yourself, especially especially in this industry.
You want your audience and your fans to know that
you're being honest. Yeah, I know that it is your everything.
And if you've just got teams and teams of people
doing everything for you and you're not in the studio
and you're you're you're gonna go and cut your vocals
(06:22):
with someone else, and then the whole bands don't everything
by themselves. Yeah, I don't get that.
Speaker 2 (06:28):
Not only that, I totally don't get it, but then
you hear them in public around stage talk about their
inspiration for the song, and you know that they had
nothing to do with it. They just bought the music
or they bought the and it's just it's so offensive.
But I don't know what can you even say to that.
Speaker 3 (06:42):
You know, Yeah, I've heard some stories with some songwriters
that have they've cut someone else's song. Keith Urban, for instance,
I know that he's cut some songs and then he's gone,
like before he's cut and he's gone beca I'm gonna
speak the songwriters because I'm going to re write the
second verse. Want to make sure they're okay with that,
just so it fits me a bit better. Because I
(07:03):
love the song. I love what it's saying. Yeah, but
I rewrite that second verse so I can relate to
it more. Well, I guess that point that's just that's
that cool because then you get in the best of
both worlds.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Yeah, as opposed to people buying your stuff for yeah anyway,
and not to get distracted, but yeah, I think it's uh,
and I don't know. I sometimes don't know what they're thinking.
But tell us about you, what do you think is
like the biggest mistake people make in your genre? In
country singer songwriters, what do you think is the biggest mistake.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
They make coming off the back of what we're just
speaking about, is selling out, I guess, and yeah, not
being honest to yourself and to your music and your
craft and taking something that someone's told you to take
and you're just you're taking orders from someone and it's
might not be your honest direction. So yeah, I think
(07:56):
the biggest mistake you.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
Can make, I mean, in my opinion and in my position,
will be selling out and cutting that song that means
absolutely nothing to you, but someone's told you that it's
going to make you hundreds of thousands of.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Dollars or pounds, whatever it is. Yeah, yeah, I think
that'll be the biggest mistake you can make.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
The saddest thing in the world, too, is I've a
couple bigger artists that get pigeonholed in a certain genre
and then they have to kind of keep doing that
kind of music even though they didn't really want to
do it in the first place, and I almost feel
sorry for them.
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Yeah, and yeah, they could be painted into a corner
if it's through, you know, legally, if they've signed agreements
or you know, I mean, if you've got a record contract.
I mean I don't have one. But from what I've
learned about them is that they can definitely be in
(08:52):
charge of you a lot as an artist and creatively,
and yeah, they could definitely pigeonhole you and paint you
into that corner. Yeah, yeah, No, that is, and that
is incredibly sad, and you just need to again, it's
all just down to be intruding yourself and trying to
get back on that trajectory that you were meant to
be on.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
For sure, tell us about this song we're going to hear.
What inspired this one?
Speaker 3 (09:13):
My dad said something one day and well, no, I
was speaking to my dad and we were outside I'm
a bear and I was speaking about there was some
girl in my life, and I was also looking at
this guitar and there wasn't any like this isn't actually
made between them, but I was. I was just roll
the dice on the girl or the guitar sort of thing.
(09:35):
And again I just like wrote it down, didn't really
know what it meant. And then I was in Nashville.
I was writing for the first time with my good
friend Jason Rettig. I had this. I was futting through
my notes. I was like, Hey, I'm going to bring
this and bring this one to the table today. Maybe
we can make something of it. And the song ended
up being about it is it's rolling the dice on
(09:57):
someone on love on a per and it's the whole
thing of how love can be a gamble. That's what
the song's about. And there's like there's a journey through it.
There's a lot of questions through it, and like the
first verse for instance, and there's a lot of waiting
in the second. Okay, it's just all the big questions.
(10:19):
It's like should I roll the dice on you?
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Awesome man? All right, tell you what. Let's take a
listen and we'll come back and talk after that. Okay,
hell yeah, all right, everybody check this out. Here we go.
Speaker 5 (10:40):
I don't know what it is.
Speaker 6 (10:42):
It's been something bounty.
Speaker 7 (10:49):
You're a little long while side been heard of time
or two. I know you don't know how this wall.
Speaker 5 (11:10):
I'm ride. If you want to go on, shoot, I
have rop roll the dice on you. Shoult I rope.
(11:31):
I got nothing.
Speaker 8 (11:32):
Left on it.
Speaker 5 (11:37):
That I should walk away. I'm addicted to your game.
My hearts on the table is too late? Should I
roll roll the dice on you? This your tom to
(12:02):
make the next move.
Speaker 6 (12:07):
I'm not going anywhere, girl, I'm waiting on you could.
Speaker 5 (12:17):
Wave me too, kind a perfect pa. If you want
to go on here, well, I'm not.
Speaker 8 (12:34):
Should I run.
Speaker 5 (12:39):
Road dies on you? Should I R.
Speaker 6 (12:49):
I got nothing left to love? I should walk away.
I'm an dick the trell game.
Speaker 5 (13:01):
My art's on the table today. Should I ro.
Speaker 9 (13:10):
Rolling dice on you?
Speaker 10 (13:51):
Should roll.
Speaker 5 (13:55):
Rolling dice on you? She and I'm nothing less national
walk away. I'm addicted to you? Okay, my arts on
(14:17):
the tables to.
Speaker 11 (14:20):
Sh rolling dice on you, rolling dice on you.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
So do the fans push you to do certain kind
of songs or do they influence you in any way?
Or is it just you and your team or you
and your your love life.
Speaker 3 (15:39):
No, I wouldn't say that the fans have pushed me
in any sort of direction. I feel like artists develop
naturally anyway. And if you're let's say you're planning a
show and let's say you've got your setlis down and
you're certain on it, and there's like a lull in
the in the set and you can see at the
crowded just getting uninterested or the energy has just dropped
(16:04):
completely and it's not in a good way. At those
kind of stages, I feel like fans can have an
impact on what you then play live. You could like
you just turned the band be It's like, hey, let's
drop this next song. Let's switch out with this, we
might not even play it. But no, I'm very true
to myself with what I write and what I put out.
(16:27):
And someone came up to me the other night and
I was just like, you didn't play this song, like
this is your best song, and I was like, well,
it's not. Yeah, I'm not gonna play it, and that's
just because I still want it, you know. So No,
I'm very I'm gonna do what I want, and I'm
(16:48):
gonna put out what I think is going to work
and what I love and what i'm passionate about.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
Yeah, I get it. I actually think it's really funny
to hear famous people talk about they have a hit
song and that's sort of but he wants to hear,
and then they're like, I'm so sick of playing it.
I'm like, man, if I have a hit song or
two or ten of them, I'm going to play the
shit out of that thing. I'm not going to get
sick of it. I mean, if you get a hit,
you could play your other fifty songs too. But I
don't get it. I don't get up people complain about
(17:15):
playing their hit and I'm talking about like a number
one hit, not like you know, one fan thinks sometimes
a great song I.
Speaker 12 (17:21):
Agree with you there as well, So well, this song
that might be the song that made them, you know,
and they're going to have royalties and it.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
I mean, that song will be the one that pays
the bills or buys the house or puts new ties
on your cars. And yeah, I'm the same. I'm in
the same boat as you as I don't get how
they can complain about it to play it, I can
I can see, I can see how it might get
(17:53):
you might get sick of it a bit like the
song I take bon Jovi for instance, I'm living on
a prayer? Yeah, how many times have they saying that song?
And you God, I mean there might there must be
nights then there will definitely be nights where they're going
to go, Okay, we'll play it with a prayer again.
And especially when artists have such a huge catalog, when
(18:16):
they're further down the line in their career and they
could they could pick from hundreds of hundreds of tracks.
But then there's yeah, there arewise those fan favorites.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
That you have to throw in and if you really
think about it, right, unless you're Taylor Swift or someone
who most people, you could have a bunch of hits,
but really, how many number one hits did most people have,
even like super famous people like Katie Pierry have had
like I don't know, six or seven or eight. So yeah,
like I said, I know, you get sick of it,
but I would play that thing if that's what they
want to hear. There's just no reason not to do that.
(18:48):
No matter how sick of it you are. You can
reinvent it, you can do a cappellas, you can change up,
but you can try to play.
Speaker 5 (18:55):
Around with it.
Speaker 13 (18:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:57):
I mean, Plus, you play live because it's it's the feeling.
It's the adrenaline that no drug can give you, and
it's the way an audience just pushes all this energy
out and that's what you're getting. And when you're playing
those huge songs that they've bought tickets to see, Like
(19:18):
if you've just dropped an album and you're doing an
album tour, it's a brand new record, ye, people, there
are still many fans that are going to buy those
tickets that want to hear those two songs off your
last record, you know, and they'll spend hundreds of dollars
or pounds on it and that's what they want to hear.
So then I mean, you owe it to them. You
owe it to the fans, because if it wasn't for them,
(19:41):
you wouldn't be where you are for sure. How do
you get people to take you seriously as a songwriter? Oh? Wow, wow, Okay,
I'm very careful about the songs I put out. I
guess man, some some days I feel like I'm still
trying to figure it out. But I believe. I believe
(20:03):
in my songs that I put out, and I put
a lot of emotion into my material and a lot
of my heart into it, and I'm just I just
always hoped that people can see that when they see
me play or they hear my songs. Yeah, and yeah,
as long as you're being truthful, I feel like you
can be taken serious as a song right.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
I totally get that. How do you avoid scams or
getting ripped off? I'd like to ask that question of
the guests, because I think we've all kind of fallen
for something at one point or another.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
Yeah, I mean, especially when it's come to like concert
tickets and stuff like that, or people pretending to be
a promoter or a publishing deal or whatever it is,
look for spelling mistakes because they're always full of them
the way that's for your name and that sort of stuff.
But also I've had a lot of it come through.
(20:58):
I haven't fallen for anything in my career about it.
I've been scammed through some gig tickets before, but I've
got a I'm very thankful to know a good bunch
of friends that are lawyers or in the music business industry,
and they've always said, if anything ever comes your way
(21:18):
and you have any doubt about it, or if you're
going to sign something, send it to me and I'll
look over it. And I have used that so many times,
and it has saved me so many times.
Speaker 2 (21:28):
Well, people in the industry are, like you said, lawyers,
They can I think spot things better than the average
musician for sure.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
Well I mean, I mean that's their job. Yeah, you know,
but yeah, it is. It's hard sometimes, I mean, especially
when someone reads too good to be true. That's sort
of when I start asking questions and flags get raised.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Yeah, we bought up.
Speaker 8 (21:51):
In there, man.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
We all want to believe. But I hear you so
tell us about where people can buy and stream your stuff.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
Every streaming platform that exists. My music's on there under Brokellingworth.
Brookellingworth dot COM's my website that will take you to
the main platforms that will take you to the socials
and any news and tour dates and then social wise
everything that's under brokelling Worth Music.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
That's awesome, man. I want to thank you so much
for being on the show tonight. It was an absolute
blast and I think you're going to do very well
in your career.
Speaker 3 (22:25):
I really appreciate that. That's so conn. Thanks for having
me again.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
You're welcome, man. So to all the listeners out there,
thank you for spending a little bit of your precious
time with the two of us tonight. If you wish
to be on The Songwriter Show, please go to the
website and just flot the interview request for him. To
the rest of you, thank you again for listening. We
both hope your own unique story gets heard around the
world too. My name is Soroantos. Please join me every
single Tuesday evening to other awesome artists here. They're fascinating
(22:51):
and very cool behind the scenes stories right here at
the Songwriter Show on Reality Radio one to one. I
love you all. Have a great night.
Speaker 13 (23:25):
Been a long day and I really missed you.
Speaker 5 (23:32):
Feel real good.
Speaker 14 (23:33):
When I come home, I read a work was long
and just all.
Speaker 13 (23:43):
Who had cut me through the day. I was remembering
our first kiss in the school.
Speaker 10 (23:49):
Yeah, I love myself and your one.
Speaker 15 (23:57):
I sit around and wave fad come home all day.
Speaker 14 (24:04):
I think of you, fail you hold of me.
Speaker 15 (24:09):
Can't wait for your or through the dog so I
can kiss your body.
Speaker 14 (24:16):
Yes, there's a country song I.
Speaker 8 (24:26):
Like to do.
Speaker 14 (24:28):
We by my side. I got I needs.
Speaker 5 (24:40):
It's so simple, just so this song.
Speaker 13 (25:09):
I'm not gonna let your tongue connor trust you wait
scene for life time A promise you can depend on me.
Speaker 14 (25:25):
Life's about then you.
Speaker 5 (25:27):
You're the best guy ever had.
Speaker 14 (25:31):
I take it long because you took away in the.
Speaker 10 (25:33):
Back simber fea.
Speaker 5 (25:38):
Cocy my swing. I also greateful for you given me.
Speaker 10 (25:48):
A little house, sony of town and a.
Speaker 8 (25:55):
Face gor.
Speaker 15 (26:00):
This.
Speaker 14 (26:01):
There is a country song I Ralph.
Speaker 7 (26:07):
And his wife and I.
Speaker 14 (26:12):
When you buy the side, I got.
Speaker 10 (26:16):
Nothing that I need to get me.
Speaker 14 (26:26):
Always make me feel like such a helpless fool.
Speaker 8 (26:31):
Sound to.
Speaker 14 (26:35):
How as hell on you? You just get hide deep beside.
Speaker 5 (26:43):
The fact that.
Speaker 1 (27:00):
Thank you for listening to The Songwriter Show. To keep
the momentum going, head over to www. Dot songwriter show
dot com and join our free music community of artists, songwriters,
and producers.
Speaker 5 (27:13):
That's www.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Dot songwriter show dot com.
Speaker 8 (28:10):
Many many, many.
Speaker 10 (28:30):
Name at m Hang Hello a
Speaker 8 (29:28):
Hango.
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