August 26, 2025 • 28 mins
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Are you a songwriter? Are you looking to turn your
songwriting passion into a full time gigig? Whether you are
just at the start of your songwriting journey or a
seasoned industry professional, this show is made for you.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
You.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
We will welcome to The Songwriter Show, bringing together songwriting, news, interviews,
and communitating. Now welcome your host Sronto.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Thank you all tonight for tuning in and welcome back
to The Songwriter Show Radio and reality radio one on one.
I'm your host. Soronto's a solo music artist who's been
writing lyrics for as long as I can remember. Or
Its just means so much to me, and that's why
I love hosting this show for you every single Tuesday evening.
I believe strongly in my heart that every song is
(00:45):
an important story. Tonight, I'm so excited to have on
the show Lou Jolin. He's a top songwriter for TV
shows like Criminal Minds, How I Met Your Mother, The Kardashians,
and many many more. He's also a University of professor
who's taught at UCLA, to Paul, Universe City and Elmhurst University.
He's currently teaching the Taylor Swift inspired Hit Songwriting class
at the Tin Lizzie Bar in Chicago's Lincoln Park.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
And now welcome this week's special guest.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Welcome to show, Loul Howrie Man.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
I'm good. How are you.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
I'm good. I'm really excited to talk to you. So
You've got some really cool stuff going on, and I
think there's a couple of things that would really appeal
to the fans. So thank you for joining us.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Sure, thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
You're welcome. So tell us first of all, how you
got started being a songwriter?
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Good question. Yeah, when I was a kid, I would
watch TV shows and you'd hear music in the background,
and you know, they wouldn't be songs like i'd hear
on the radio, like when be Nirvana or ACDC, to
just be music. And I was always kind of fascinated
by that, and I always kind of felt like, in
the back of my head like I could do that,
and I always kind of drugged about doing that one day.
(01:54):
I mean, long story short, I started taking songwriting more
seriously after high school, and then I studied classical composition
at college and graduate school. I went to UCLA for that,
so that brought me out to LA and after u
CLA it's like, all right, now, I got to really
I really got to make a living doing this, so
(02:15):
it's do or die time and I could spend you know,
hours telling all the details about it. But long story short,
I worked really, really hard. It was very strategic about it,
and over the years it started snowballing and I got
in at a pretty good time. It was kind of
like the heyday of reality shows, like about fifteen years
ago at the Kardashians, The Hills, the Real World, all
(02:39):
those MTV shows. It's kind of like like the phase
before streaming kicked in and all the reality shows they
usually have like wall the wall music in the background,
and so there's a big It created a big need
for music. And the cool thing is reality shows like
Royalty wise they paid the same amount as scripted shows.
So I just really worked really hard. I had good
(03:01):
music at commercial sounding music. Slowly but surely started snowballing
and that kind of became my bread and butter.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
I think, you know, we'll have fun talking and I
everybody wants to hit and they're hard to come by,
and people don't realize how much music is used in
film and TV and all the sync licenses and the
instrumental cues, they could be very lucrative. And sure with
AI and all these things coming in the marketplace, it
might be a little more challenging, but I still feel
(03:29):
like there's a career to be had there if you
want it.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Yeah, one hundred percent. Like it's always been super competitive
and super saturated. But when I started doing it about
like twenty years ago, I was pretty surprised, like how
few people were doing like pop songs and rock songs
specifically for TV shows, movies, commercials. It seemed like everyone
was at the time, everyone was trying to be like
(03:55):
film scores, you know, like John Williams and stuff, and
my buddy's from UCLA. That's what they wanted to do.
I was living in LA and I was like, Wow,
I don't really know many other people who are doing this.
And then about five ten years later, it seemed like
people started catching up to that. And then there's usually
silver lining. And I've been doing this twenty years, and
(04:15):
it seems like with new technology, every seven to ten years,
new technology comes out and that begets like changes in
the music industry. So the industry kind of changes every
seven to ten years. You know. Obviously when when the
Internet really came to prominence, Napster that changed everything. Then
like fifteen years later Spotify took over. That changed everything
(04:38):
with streaming. But there's usually there's usually silver lining. So yeah,
I still think a lot of people don't know about it,
And I think the silver lining is that, like there's
been much more of an abundance and need for music,
whereas back before streaming and maybe even the Internet, which
is before my time, it was like way way less abundance,
(05:00):
less quantity, but granted, you know, the value was much
higher than you know, like upfront license fees, master sync
license fees were much higher than royalties were more so
it's kind of like a numbers game. Also, quantity and
abundance tends to go up, and it's become more of
a global market too, so you can like not just
(05:21):
reach out to countries in America, but all over the world.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
That's great. So who's your first teacher.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Like ever in life or for like doing this.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Whatever you want to answer, I mean either one or both.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
My earliest memory of a teacher probably my preschool teacher.
I don't really remember her name, But for doing this specifically,
I really didn't have like a teacher or mentor. I
really figured it all out myself. Music school didn't teach
me anything about how to like make a living or
make a business or make money with my music. I
just creatively. Not even a ton from music school either.
(05:56):
I learned alect creatively by working with other talented, skilled people.
But yeah, this, I can honestly say it. I just
kind of figured it out on my own. It was
like two thousand and five. And I don't know if
you're familiar with BMI or as GAP. Those are like
two main companies that pay music songwriting royalties in the USA.
So I literally just walked into BMI, like after I
(06:19):
graduated UCLA, and I was like talked to the receptionist
and I was like, Hey, I want to write music
for TV shows. How do I do this? And she's like,
hold on one second. So she went into the back
room and came back with a xerox copy of music
Supervisors and she goes, this is a director of Music Supervisors.
These are the people you want to contact. So I
made like an excel ste wow awes man. Yeah, she
(06:43):
just gave me the xerox copy and I just pushed myself.
I was very organized and made a spreadsheet and I
just like went down the list, cold called everyone, emailed
social media DM I kept a list of like anyone
who responded yes or no, like most people just respond
or pick up, and I wouldn't stop until, like I
(07:03):
got a hard no, and I'd follow up every couple
of weeks. And from like the first two hundred or
three hundred people in there, I got like my first
two placements on a Disney Channel show called Life with
Derek and a soap opera NBC soap opera at the
time called Passions. And I was super stoked that I
like I caught the bug from that because I got
(07:26):
paid up front and then I got royalties. So I
just kind of instant repeated, made a new batch of songs,
reached out to these people I already already reached out to,
and this time I had a couple of credits to
name drop and that opened a few doors, got a
couple more placements, and then it just kind of off
to the races from there, just kind of repeat and
repeat and then started snowballing.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Yeah, I didn't really have a teacher with that, but
then as a teacher, I definitely teach my students that,
because I would have loved to have a teacher like
me have taught that when I was in college or
graduate school.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Yeah, what do you think of services like taxi? Is
that something you recommend listeners of the show try in
terms of helping to get placements or what are your
thoughts about that.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Taxi that's like a pay to play service. Nothing against
taxi specifically, and I know some people who do that,
but by and large, the majority of the industry is
not pay to play in my experience. If they're legitimate,
they take a percentage. You know, they'll take part of
the publishing or split things fifty to fifty with you,
(08:31):
and that's how I know it's legit. The pay to
play situations to me are usually not too legitimate, so
I personally stay away from those.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
When you say pay to play for the listeners, can
you explain a little bit. So what Taxi pretty much
says it is is there's a fee to submit it,
and they have different listings and then they hook you
up with music supervisors or people that are looking for
a certain song, and it could take a year or
two and sometimes you'll get a placements. So if you
can elaborate a little bit.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
That, Yeah, the vast majority of like music placement companies
or seeing placement companies similar to that, they take a
percentage of what they play, so you don't pay them anything,
and usually they have a pretty stiff, like a pretty
high bar for entrance, so like they only accept you
into their catalog if they really think you music viable,
(09:23):
and then they take a percentage of whatever they place.
That's the vast majority of the legitimate companies out there
and the ones that are paid to play. Again, it
seems like, I don't know if they have any bar
for entry. It's kind of open door and then you
pay them. And it's just the way the industry works
has worked for decades. It's it's not the more legitimate route.
(09:47):
Be totally honest, and.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Are there certain websites that you would recommend people try
to try to get placements, you know, legitimate websites, like
if you want to name some.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
There's hundreds, there's thousands, but there is a there's a
lit there's a directory called musiclibrary report dot com that's
like the best directory of music publishing companies and music
libraries that are legit that do that. So anyone listening,
I would just sign up with Musiclibraryreport dot com and
you just get hundreds and hundreds of companies that do this,
(10:20):
and those are like and I think Music Library Report
like vets them. Oh and like the good thing is
it's made by composers for composers, so you can like
give reviews on different libraries, so if something is scammy,
there'll be other like composers talking about it in them
in the forum. That's definitely what I would check out
(10:40):
as a listener.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Okay, yeah, that's awesome. You know, one of the things
I love to ask guests is about scams, right, so
we can all protect each other. A vast majority of
listeners are fans that are just trying to figure out
how people do this, but a lot of them are
also songwriters. So tell us about a scam you kind
of alluded to some but tell us about one you
want to warn everybody about, or maybe one you've fallen
(11:01):
for in the past when you're first starting out scams.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
I mean, I've definitely been through the ringer in the
music industry. I was in a band that was that
got signed to a major record label, and that was
like one of the are we allowed to swear on here.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Let's keep it friendly, you know, I don't want it
to get beeped out.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Like one of the worst experiences. Like it was just
it just oh god, it just like became a total
poop show for lack of a better term, which, like
every it brought up the worst side of everyone, and
like all those stereotypes you hear about major record deals
and all that stuff, it turned out to be true.
(11:43):
I mean, it's not really a scam, but that was
probably like the worst situation I've ever been in with music.
But as far as scams, I mean, I'm not saying that.
I don't think taxi is a scam at all, but
there's like pay to play situations like that out there
where they I've seen more of those pop but where
it's like pay us to pitch your music and then
(12:03):
you don't get any return on investment. So I would
just stay generally in the music industry, like stay away
from pay to play.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
That's great advice. So tell us about this song that
we're going to hear. What inspired this one?
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yeah, So I wrote this with my friend Christy Agic,
who's a very talented producer and songwriter and we're just
we're kind of going for the jugular here for what's
currently in style for TV shows and commercials. It's like
modern TikTok style rap and like the ads you see
so's it's just like really trying to be very commercially
(12:37):
relevant and go for the jugular what's like in fashion
right now in the sink world. So that's really the
honest truth for the inspiration behind it.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Okay, awesome, man, all right, I'll tell you what. Let's
take a listen and we'll come back and chat tomorrow. Okay, sure, awesome,
everybody check this out here we go.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
Ready sick ready, Ready sick ready said ready.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Shady grow, Yeah, we got the heat.
Speaker 5 (13:04):
We never be treating our winds on the pay our
energy loud as on the plagure. We make it a
go as on the goal, as on the goal. Ready
sets on the goal, as on the goal as on
the go. Ready Sha ready set Brady set row Ready said,
really shout throw.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
I'm flipping the girl.
Speaker 5 (13:26):
I'm tussing the stella.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
We always excel a young go.
Speaker 4 (13:29):
But no, that was impression a strong.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
From the goal.
Speaker 5 (13:32):
I's on the goal as on the goat Ready is
on the Goal as on the Goal as on the
Go Ready.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
Sha grow Ready said, ready Set grow Ready said ready
to Ready Set Brady Set grow Ready said, really shout throw.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
That's a cool song, dude, Thank you for sharing it
with us tonight.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Thanks.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
In terms of your inspiration with songwriting, obviously people get
inspired in all sorts of different directions and channels. Is
there a certain way that you tend to get inspired
with what you're doing?
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Yeah, that's a good question because I've always been very
I've always wanted to make a living doing this. I've
always wanted to make a good living doing this, and
most people in the business treat it like a business,
treat it like a commodity, like it's a car or
a refrigerator or stock. So like that, how do you
(14:55):
keep your inspiration up when you're also when you're creative,
is really being used as just like a business commodity.
So yeah, because like kind of when you ask the
last question, like how did I get inspired? I just
wanted to elaborate on that where I personally it get
creatively inspired when there's like a really when there's a
(15:16):
really interesting marketable commercial project, like if there's a commercial
like a car commercial, and it's a cool car commercial,
it's a cool TV show. I want to like write
music that betters that show and brings that show in
that commercial to life and also is successful for me
too in business. So like kind of having the left
(15:38):
brain and the right brain working for you is really essential.
So like, if there's no if there's no marketability to something,
I don't feel inspired. I personally feel inspired if there's
a market to it or there's commercial viability to it.
And I know a lot of creative people don't feel
that way, but yeah, I think the people in the
(15:59):
industry for making a living doing that have that kind
of element to it where they're inspired by the business
side of things. So that's why, like this last song
you listened to, it sounds a lot like probably what's
cool and modern today, and so that's what I was
going for, and I felt inspired by that. I'm like, oh, yeah,
this is what I hear on a lot of commercials Now,
I would like to do something like that. You know,
(16:21):
that inspires me. So I just wanted to elaborate on that.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
If that makes sense, Yeah, it does, Okay. Do you
at this point in your career are you trying to
practice or jam once a week, or are you just
kind of creating your own stuff? Like what's that like
for you?
Speaker 2 (16:36):
That's a good question. Yeah. I go through phases like
when I moved back here from LA, Like I worked
in LA for like eight ten years, just all original
music music for TV shows, original artists, and I felt
like I just want to not I just want to
do something just for fun. So when I moved back
here to Chicago, I started a cover band with my friend,
(16:58):
a nineties cover band. I'm like, Okay, I'm not really
writing or producing anything at all. I'm just playing bass
and singing background vocals to like nineties songs that I like.
So that was fun. And then after about four years,
I started, like the grass started start being greener on
the other side, you know, I'm like, okay, I'm getting
a little tired of this. My wrist is starting to
heard from playing. Yeah, I kind of want to get
(17:21):
back to writing some original music. So I kind of
follow my own compass with that. I'm like, Okay, my
body and mind is telling me I want to write
original music for this, so I'm just going to do that,
you know. So I kind of go back and forth,
but yeah, right, now I'm in a band an original
about with my high school friends basically, and they're all
original songs and we're just kind of doing it for fun,
(17:43):
and so that's kind of the things I'm in right now,
in addition to like writing original music for commercial purposes.
So kind of have a good blend going.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
What's your favorite Eighties song?
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Favorite eighties song? Oh my god? Because all my favorite
songs are from.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
The eighties me too. That's a tough question.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Yeah, eighties are the best, but I think probably I
think it's called just like Heaven by the Cure, Okay,
just like, oh my God, that's like such a good song.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
And if you could have a dinner with any famous songwriter,
living or dead, who would it be and what would
you want to eat with them?
Speaker 2 (18:18):
That's a good question. Let me just elaborate on the
previous question. I watched this documentary on The Cure and
Robert Smith he said like when he wrote that song,
just like Kevin like in eighty six or something, he
came to his band He's like, I just wrote the
best song that I will ever write. I think he
was right. So anyways, I mean, I love like most
(18:39):
of the Cure stuff, they'll be brilliant. So obviously, if
I could have any dinner with anyone pastor president, would
be John Lennon because he's like the best dude of
all time. And yeah, I just want to ask him, like,
like what is his creative process? How did he learn
his skills? Like how did he learn his chops? I'm
sure a ton of it is like natural talent, but
(19:00):
you know, I think Paul and him learned within from
each other. But I'd just like love to dive more
into like how did he develop his craft? You know,
I don't know how much of that is out there
because unfortunately he passed away at such a young age.
And then what wouldn't we have for dinner? I mean
pizza obviously obviously. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
Okay, So I have two more questions for you. One
is you talked about this directory thing, and it sounds
like a great resource. I've never heard of it, so
I'm definitely going to check it out myself. But I
assume that you said other people vet other people and
you can find memberships and find all these music libraries
to list. But is it paid? Is it free? Is
(19:40):
there like access to music libraries? Like I'm sure there's
some kind of different tier, But can you tell the
listeners a little bit about that.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Yeah, I'm checking it right now just because I haven't
used it in a long time. Yeah, it's still up
and running. It's made by composers for composers. It's just
a directory of music libraries, music publishing companies. And yeah,
it's a it's a paid service. It's always been very
like low priced. Like last time I did it, it
was like ten dollars a month or something.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
And that's to have access to the libraries or something
like that.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
To the directory. Yeah, Okay, that's like the best, most
legit one out there.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Yeah, And like before I found Music Library Report, there's
always been there's use Google or at GPT gave me
a list of music supervisor directories or music library directories,
and that's what I've always used, you know, from day one,
since BMI gave me that directory. Like yeah, after I
got that directory from BMI, like at some point later,
(20:36):
I'm like, there's got to be other directories like this
out there, with maybe other companies or people that I
missed here, So I'm just gonna try and cover all
bases here.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
It sounds like your recommendation is for people to hit
up music soups directly and then obviously try it again
to with some publishers. Right, yeah, then they could push
your stuff.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Yeah, it's all super hard. You got to pull every
string you can. It's really really hard to get through
to music supervisors. It seems to have gotten harder over
the years. And so that's why these music libraries and
music publishers are great, because they're like third parties and
they do all that legwork for you. They're usually started
by someone who has some connection to those people to
(21:17):
begin with, you know, yeah, so who knows how they
get their connections. But yeah, you can go to the
direct route or you can do the third party route,
but expect rejection. You know, rejection is the name of
the game. And you know, if you can get like
a point five percent, that's you're doing a fantastic job.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
So last question, where can people finder stuff? Stream it
by it? Give us a little infault before I let
you go.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Oh, because I'm not really like an artist, you know,
I'm just like a behind the scenes in the studios.
I'm not like a band. I have an Instagram. How
about I have a website and Instagram. How about you
tell people who go to my Instagram. I can always
use more friends and followers there.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
All right, sure, so just.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Go to my Instagram and me DM me and I'll
be happy to show you my music there. Talk to you.
I'm always happy to help Sia. My Instagram is at
Lou Yolan l o U yoe l I N. It's
just my name at Lou Yolan. I mean, if you want,
I can give you a QR code to post on somewhere.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
Yeah, yeah, you can. Off the air. Yeah we'll talk
for a second, but okay, okay, all right, man. I
want to thank you so much for being on the show.
Thank you so much. I think it'll be a great
show and a lot of people love to listen.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
Welcome. So to all the listeners out there, thank you
so much for tuning in tonight with the two of us.
We appreciate your time. We know you have choices and
your time is very precious. If you're a songwriter, please
go to songwriter show dot com and feel free to
submit the end of your quest forum. If you're a
fan and a listener in general, I hope this episode
inspires you to explore your own story through the power
of music. My name is Arontos and as always, it's
(22:57):
been a real pleasure having you with us today the evening.
I have a great night. I love you all.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Eve, thank you for listening to The Songwriter Show. To
(25:34):
keep the momentum going, head over to www Dot songwriter
show dot com and joined our free music community of artists, songwriters,
and producers.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
That's www.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Dot songwriter Show dot com.
Speaker 6 (26:42):
Any anything, any any name, singling, hanging a
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Name,
Are you a songwriter? Are you looking to turn your
songwriting passion into a full time gigig? Whether you are
just at the start of your songwriting journey or a
seasoned industry professional, this show is made for you.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
You.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
We will welcome to The Songwriter Show, bringing together songwriting, news, interviews,
and communitating. Now welcome your host Sronto.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Thank you all tonight for tuning in and welcome back
to The Songwriter Show Radio and reality radio one on one.
I'm your host. Soronto's a solo music artist who's been
writing lyrics for as long as I can remember. Or
Its just means so much to me, and that's why
I love hosting this show for you every single Tuesday evening.
I believe strongly in my heart that every song is
(00:45):
an important story. Tonight, I'm so excited to have on
the show Lou Jolin. He's a top songwriter for TV
shows like Criminal Minds, How I Met Your Mother, The Kardashians,
and many many more. He's also a University of professor
who's taught at UCLA, to Paul, Universe City and Elmhurst University.
He's currently teaching the Taylor Swift inspired Hit Songwriting class
at the Tin Lizzie Bar in Chicago's Lincoln Park.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
And now welcome this week's special guest.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
Welcome to show, Loul Howrie Man.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
I'm good. How are you.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
I'm good. I'm really excited to talk to you. So
You've got some really cool stuff going on, and I
think there's a couple of things that would really appeal
to the fans. So thank you for joining us.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Sure, thank you for having me.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
You're welcome. So tell us first of all, how you
got started being a songwriter?
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Good question. Yeah, when I was a kid, I would
watch TV shows and you'd hear music in the background,
and you know, they wouldn't be songs like i'd hear
on the radio, like when be Nirvana or ACDC, to
just be music. And I was always kind of fascinated
by that, and I always kind of felt like, in
the back of my head like I could do that,
and I always kind of drugged about doing that one day.
(01:54):
I mean, long story short, I started taking songwriting more
seriously after high school, and then I studied classical composition
at college and graduate school. I went to UCLA for that,
so that brought me out to LA and after u
CLA it's like, all right, now, I got to really
I really got to make a living doing this, so
(02:15):
it's do or die time and I could spend you know,
hours telling all the details about it. But long story short,
I worked really, really hard. It was very strategic about it,
and over the years it started snowballing and I got
in at a pretty good time. It was kind of
like the heyday of reality shows, like about fifteen years
ago at the Kardashians, The Hills, the Real World, all
(02:39):
those MTV shows. It's kind of like like the phase
before streaming kicked in and all the reality shows they
usually have like wall the wall music in the background,
and so there's a big It created a big need
for music. And the cool thing is reality shows like
Royalty wise they paid the same amount as scripted shows.
So I just really worked really hard. I had good
(03:01):
music at commercial sounding music. Slowly but surely started snowballing
and that kind of became my bread and butter.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
I think, you know, we'll have fun talking and I
everybody wants to hit and they're hard to come by,
and people don't realize how much music is used in
film and TV and all the sync licenses and the
instrumental cues, they could be very lucrative. And sure with
AI and all these things coming in the marketplace, it
might be a little more challenging, but I still feel
(03:29):
like there's a career to be had there if you
want it.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Yeah, one hundred percent. Like it's always been super competitive
and super saturated. But when I started doing it about
like twenty years ago, I was pretty surprised, like how
few people were doing like pop songs and rock songs
specifically for TV shows, movies, commercials. It seemed like everyone
was at the time, everyone was trying to be like
(03:55):
film scores, you know, like John Williams and stuff, and
my buddy's from UCLA. That's what they wanted to do.
I was living in LA and I was like, Wow,
I don't really know many other people who are doing this.
And then about five ten years later, it seemed like
people started catching up to that. And then there's usually
silver lining. And I've been doing this twenty years, and
(04:15):
it seems like with new technology, every seven to ten years,
new technology comes out and that begets like changes in
the music industry. So the industry kind of changes every
seven to ten years. You know. Obviously when when the
Internet really came to prominence, Napster that changed everything. Then
like fifteen years later Spotify took over. That changed everything
(04:38):
with streaming. But there's usually there's usually silver lining. So yeah,
I still think a lot of people don't know about it,
And I think the silver lining is that, like there's
been much more of an abundance and need for music,
whereas back before streaming and maybe even the Internet, which
is before my time, it was like way way less abundance,
(05:00):
less quantity, but granted, you know, the value was much
higher than you know, like upfront license fees, master sync
license fees were much higher than royalties were more so
it's kind of like a numbers game. Also, quantity and
abundance tends to go up, and it's become more of
a global market too, so you can like not just
(05:21):
reach out to countries in America, but all over the world.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
That's great. So who's your first teacher.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
Like ever in life or for like doing this.
Speaker 3 (05:29):
Whatever you want to answer, I mean either one or both.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
My earliest memory of a teacher probably my preschool teacher.
I don't really remember her name, But for doing this specifically,
I really didn't have like a teacher or mentor. I
really figured it all out myself. Music school didn't teach
me anything about how to like make a living or
make a business or make money with my music. I
just creatively. Not even a ton from music school either.
(05:56):
I learned alect creatively by working with other talented, skilled people.
But yeah, this, I can honestly say it. I just
kind of figured it out on my own. It was
like two thousand and five. And I don't know if
you're familiar with BMI or as GAP. Those are like
two main companies that pay music songwriting royalties in the USA.
So I literally just walked into BMI, like after I
(06:19):
graduated UCLA, and I was like talked to the receptionist
and I was like, Hey, I want to write music
for TV shows. How do I do this? And she's like,
hold on one second. So she went into the back
room and came back with a xerox copy of music
Supervisors and she goes, this is a director of Music Supervisors.
These are the people you want to contact. So I
made like an excel ste wow awes man. Yeah, she
(06:43):
just gave me the xerox copy and I just pushed myself.
I was very organized and made a spreadsheet and I
just like went down the list, cold called everyone, emailed
social media DM I kept a list of like anyone
who responded yes or no, like most people just respond
or pick up, and I wouldn't stop until, like I
(07:03):
got a hard no, and I'd follow up every couple
of weeks. And from like the first two hundred or
three hundred people in there, I got like my first
two placements on a Disney Channel show called Life with
Derek and a soap opera NBC soap opera at the
time called Passions. And I was super stoked that I
like I caught the bug from that because I got
(07:26):
paid up front and then I got royalties. So I
just kind of instant repeated, made a new batch of songs,
reached out to these people I already already reached out to,
and this time I had a couple of credits to
name drop and that opened a few doors, got a
couple more placements, and then it just kind of off
to the races from there, just kind of repeat and
repeat and then started snowballing.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Yeah, I didn't really have a teacher with that, but
then as a teacher, I definitely teach my students that,
because I would have loved to have a teacher like
me have taught that when I was in college or
graduate school.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Yeah, what do you think of services like taxi? Is
that something you recommend listeners of the show try in
terms of helping to get placements or what are your
thoughts about that.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Taxi that's like a pay to play service. Nothing against
taxi specifically, and I know some people who do that,
but by and large, the majority of the industry is
not pay to play in my experience. If they're legitimate,
they take a percentage. You know, they'll take part of
the publishing or split things fifty to fifty with you,
(08:31):
and that's how I know it's legit. The pay to
play situations to me are usually not too legitimate, so
I personally stay away from those.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
When you say pay to play for the listeners, can
you explain a little bit. So what Taxi pretty much
says it is is there's a fee to submit it,
and they have different listings and then they hook you
up with music supervisors or people that are looking for
a certain song, and it could take a year or
two and sometimes you'll get a placements. So if you
can elaborate a little bit.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
That, Yeah, the vast majority of like music placement companies
or seeing placement companies similar to that, they take a
percentage of what they play, so you don't pay them anything,
and usually they have a pretty stiff, like a pretty
high bar for entrance, so like they only accept you
into their catalog if they really think you music viable,
(09:23):
and then they take a percentage of whatever they place.
That's the vast majority of the legitimate companies out there
and the ones that are paid to play. Again, it
seems like, I don't know if they have any bar
for entry. It's kind of open door and then you
pay them. And it's just the way the industry works
has worked for decades. It's it's not the more legitimate route.
(09:47):
Be totally honest, and.
Speaker 3 (09:49):
Are there certain websites that you would recommend people try
to try to get placements, you know, legitimate websites, like
if you want to name some.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
There's hundreds, there's thousands, but there is a there's a
lit there's a directory called musiclibrary report dot com that's
like the best directory of music publishing companies and music
libraries that are legit that do that. So anyone listening,
I would just sign up with Musiclibraryreport dot com and
you just get hundreds and hundreds of companies that do this,
(10:20):
and those are like and I think Music Library Report
like vets them. Oh and like the good thing is
it's made by composers for composers, so you can like
give reviews on different libraries, so if something is scammy,
there'll be other like composers talking about it in them
in the forum. That's definitely what I would check out
(10:40):
as a listener.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Okay, yeah, that's awesome. You know, one of the things
I love to ask guests is about scams, right, so
we can all protect each other. A vast majority of
listeners are fans that are just trying to figure out
how people do this, but a lot of them are
also songwriters. So tell us about a scam you kind
of alluded to some but tell us about one you
want to warn everybody about, or maybe one you've fallen
(11:01):
for in the past when you're first starting out scams.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
I mean, I've definitely been through the ringer in the
music industry. I was in a band that was that
got signed to a major record label, and that was
like one of the are we allowed to swear on here.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Let's keep it friendly, you know, I don't want it
to get beeped out.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
Like one of the worst experiences. Like it was just
it just oh god, it just like became a total
poop show for lack of a better term, which, like
every it brought up the worst side of everyone, and
like all those stereotypes you hear about major record deals
and all that stuff, it turned out to be true.
(11:43):
I mean, it's not really a scam, but that was
probably like the worst situation I've ever been in with music.
But as far as scams, I mean, I'm not saying that.
I don't think taxi is a scam at all, but
there's like pay to play situations like that out there
where they I've seen more of those pop but where
it's like pay us to pitch your music and then
(12:03):
you don't get any return on investment. So I would
just stay generally in the music industry, like stay away
from pay to play.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
That's great advice. So tell us about this song that
we're going to hear. What inspired this one?
Speaker 2 (12:15):
Yeah, So I wrote this with my friend Christy Agic,
who's a very talented producer and songwriter and we're just
we're kind of going for the jugular here for what's
currently in style for TV shows and commercials. It's like
modern TikTok style rap and like the ads you see
so's it's just like really trying to be very commercially
(12:37):
relevant and go for the jugular what's like in fashion
right now in the sink world. So that's really the
honest truth for the inspiration behind it.
Speaker 3 (12:47):
Okay, awesome, man, all right, I'll tell you what. Let's
take a listen and we'll come back and chat tomorrow. Okay, sure, awesome,
everybody check this out here we go.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
Ready sick ready, Ready sick ready said ready.
Speaker 2 (13:02):
Shady grow, Yeah, we got the heat.
Speaker 5 (13:04):
We never be treating our winds on the pay our
energy loud as on the plagure. We make it a
go as on the goal, as on the goal. Ready
sets on the goal, as on the goal as on
the go. Ready Sha ready set Brady set row Ready said,
really shout throw.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
I'm flipping the girl.
Speaker 5 (13:26):
I'm tussing the stella.
Speaker 2 (13:27):
We always excel a young go.
Speaker 4 (13:29):
But no, that was impression a strong.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
From the goal.
Speaker 5 (13:32):
I's on the goal as on the goat Ready is
on the Goal as on the Goal as on the
Go Ready.
Speaker 4 (13:38):
Sha grow Ready said, ready Set grow Ready said ready
to Ready Set Brady Set grow Ready said, really shout throw.
Speaker 3 (14:19):
That's a cool song, dude, Thank you for sharing it
with us tonight.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Thanks.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
In terms of your inspiration with songwriting, obviously people get
inspired in all sorts of different directions and channels. Is
there a certain way that you tend to get inspired
with what you're doing?
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Yeah, that's a good question because I've always been very
I've always wanted to make a living doing this. I've
always wanted to make a good living doing this, and
most people in the business treat it like a business,
treat it like a commodity, like it's a car or
a refrigerator or stock. So like that, how do you
(14:55):
keep your inspiration up when you're also when you're creative,
is really being used as just like a business commodity.
So yeah, because like kind of when you ask the
last question, like how did I get inspired? I just
wanted to elaborate on that where I personally it get
creatively inspired when there's like a really when there's a
(15:16):
really interesting marketable commercial project, like if there's a commercial
like a car commercial, and it's a cool car commercial,
it's a cool TV show. I want to like write
music that betters that show and brings that show in
that commercial to life and also is successful for me
too in business. So like kind of having the left
(15:38):
brain and the right brain working for you is really essential.
So like, if there's no if there's no marketability to something,
I don't feel inspired. I personally feel inspired if there's
a market to it or there's commercial viability to it.
And I know a lot of creative people don't feel
that way, but yeah, I think the people in the
(15:59):
industry for making a living doing that have that kind
of element to it where they're inspired by the business
side of things. So that's why, like this last song
you listened to, it sounds a lot like probably what's
cool and modern today, and so that's what I was
going for, and I felt inspired by that. I'm like, oh, yeah,
this is what I hear on a lot of commercials Now,
I would like to do something like that. You know,
(16:21):
that inspires me. So I just wanted to elaborate on that.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
If that makes sense, Yeah, it does, Okay. Do you
at this point in your career are you trying to
practice or jam once a week, or are you just
kind of creating your own stuff? Like what's that like
for you?
Speaker 2 (16:36):
That's a good question. Yeah. I go through phases like
when I moved back here from LA, Like I worked
in LA for like eight ten years, just all original
music music for TV shows, original artists, and I felt
like I just want to not I just want to
do something just for fun. So when I moved back
here to Chicago, I started a cover band with my friend,
(16:58):
a nineties cover band. I'm like, Okay, I'm not really
writing or producing anything at all. I'm just playing bass
and singing background vocals to like nineties songs that I like.
So that was fun. And then after about four years,
I started, like the grass started start being greener on
the other side, you know, I'm like, okay, I'm getting
a little tired of this. My wrist is starting to
heard from playing. Yeah, I kind of want to get
(17:21):
back to writing some original music. So I kind of
follow my own compass with that. I'm like, Okay, my
body and mind is telling me I want to write
original music for this, so I'm just going to do that,
you know. So I kind of go back and forth,
but yeah, right, now I'm in a band an original
about with my high school friends basically, and they're all
original songs and we're just kind of doing it for fun,
(17:43):
and so that's kind of the things I'm in right now,
in addition to like writing original music for commercial purposes.
So kind of have a good blend going.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
What's your favorite Eighties song?
Speaker 2 (17:54):
Favorite eighties song? Oh my god? Because all my favorite
songs are from.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
The eighties me too. That's a tough question.
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Yeah, eighties are the best, but I think probably I
think it's called just like Heaven by the Cure, Okay,
just like, oh my God, that's like such a good song.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
And if you could have a dinner with any famous songwriter,
living or dead, who would it be and what would
you want to eat with them?
Speaker 2 (18:18):
That's a good question. Let me just elaborate on the
previous question. I watched this documentary on The Cure and
Robert Smith he said like when he wrote that song,
just like Kevin like in eighty six or something, he
came to his band He's like, I just wrote the
best song that I will ever write. I think he
was right. So anyways, I mean, I love like most
(18:39):
of the Cure stuff, they'll be brilliant. So obviously, if
I could have any dinner with anyone pastor president, would
be John Lennon because he's like the best dude of
all time. And yeah, I just want to ask him, like,
like what is his creative process? How did he learn
his skills? Like how did he learn his chops? I'm
sure a ton of it is like natural talent, but
(19:00):
you know, I think Paul and him learned within from
each other. But I'd just like love to dive more
into like how did he develop his craft? You know,
I don't know how much of that is out there
because unfortunately he passed away at such a young age.
And then what wouldn't we have for dinner? I mean
pizza obviously obviously. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
Okay, So I have two more questions for you. One
is you talked about this directory thing, and it sounds
like a great resource. I've never heard of it, so
I'm definitely going to check it out myself. But I
assume that you said other people vet other people and
you can find memberships and find all these music libraries
to list. But is it paid? Is it free? Is
(19:40):
there like access to music libraries? Like I'm sure there's
some kind of different tier, But can you tell the
listeners a little bit about that.
Speaker 2 (19:46):
Yeah, I'm checking it right now just because I haven't
used it in a long time. Yeah, it's still up
and running. It's made by composers for composers. It's just
a directory of music libraries, music publishing companies. And yeah,
it's a it's a paid service. It's always been very
like low priced. Like last time I did it, it
was like ten dollars a month or something.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
And that's to have access to the libraries or something
like that.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
To the directory. Yeah, Okay, that's like the best, most
legit one out there.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Yeah, And like before I found Music Library Report, there's
always been there's use Google or at GPT gave me
a list of music supervisor directories or music library directories,
and that's what I've always used, you know, from day one,
since BMI gave me that directory. Like yeah, after I
got that directory from BMI, like at some point later,
(20:36):
I'm like, there's got to be other directories like this
out there, with maybe other companies or people that I
missed here, So I'm just gonna try and cover all
bases here.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
It sounds like your recommendation is for people to hit
up music soups directly and then obviously try it again
to with some publishers. Right, yeah, then they could push
your stuff.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Yeah, it's all super hard. You got to pull every
string you can. It's really really hard to get through
to music supervisors. It seems to have gotten harder over
the years. And so that's why these music libraries and
music publishers are great, because they're like third parties and
they do all that legwork for you. They're usually started
by someone who has some connection to those people to
(21:17):
begin with, you know, yeah, so who knows how they
get their connections. But yeah, you can go to the
direct route or you can do the third party route,
but expect rejection. You know, rejection is the name of
the game. And you know, if you can get like
a point five percent, that's you're doing a fantastic job.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
So last question, where can people finder stuff? Stream it
by it? Give us a little infault before I let
you go.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Oh, because I'm not really like an artist, you know,
I'm just like a behind the scenes in the studios.
I'm not like a band. I have an Instagram. How
about I have a website and Instagram. How about you
tell people who go to my Instagram. I can always
use more friends and followers there.
Speaker 3 (22:00):
All right, sure, so just.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
Go to my Instagram and me DM me and I'll
be happy to show you my music there. Talk to you.
I'm always happy to help Sia. My Instagram is at
Lou Yolan l o U yoe l I N. It's
just my name at Lou Yolan. I mean, if you want,
I can give you a QR code to post on somewhere.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
Yeah, yeah, you can. Off the air. Yeah we'll talk
for a second, but okay, okay, all right, man. I
want to thank you so much for being on the show.
Thank you so much. I think it'll be a great
show and a lot of people love to listen.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
Welcome. So to all the listeners out there, thank you
so much for tuning in tonight with the two of us.
We appreciate your time. We know you have choices and
your time is very precious. If you're a songwriter, please
go to songwriter show dot com and feel free to
submit the end of your quest forum. If you're a
fan and a listener in general, I hope this episode
inspires you to explore your own story through the power
of music. My name is Arontos and as always, it's
(22:57):
been a real pleasure having you with us today the evening.
I have a great night. I love you all.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Eve, thank you for listening to The Songwriter Show. To
(25:34):
keep the momentum going, head over to www Dot songwriter
show dot com and joined our free music community of artists, songwriters,
and producers.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
That's www.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Dot songwriter Show dot com.
Speaker 6 (26:42):
Any anything, any any name, singling, hanging a
Speaker 2 (27:59):
Name,
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