April 1, 2024 • 51 mins
Jon Kowanetz - Lead Pathfinder of Pathways Coaching & Consulting. Jon works with business owners and leaders wanting to grow. He helps them recapture the enjoyment, and confidence that they’ll succeed, after many have approached, if not experienced burnout.
In his book Life Without Crutches, Jon tells of his journey from addiction to alcohol - successful in business while failing personally, a very compelling and deeply personal story - to sobriety and the lessons he can now share with readers.
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In his book Life Without Crutches, Jon tells of his journey from addiction to alcohol - successful in business while failing personally, a very compelling and deeply personal story - to sobriety and the lessons he can now share with readers.
Winning Business Radio is broadcast live Mondays at 4PM ET.
Winning Business TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
Winning Business Radio Show is broadcast on W4CY Radio (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com).
Winning Business Radio Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/winning-business-radio--3075598/support.
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(00:00):
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(00:21):
FOURCY Radio. Churchill said, thosewho failed to learn from history are condemned
to repeat it. Kevin helen nbelieves that certainly applies to business. Welcome
to Winning Business Radio here at Wfour CY Radio. That's W four cy
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dot com and now your host,Kevin Helena. Thanks for joining in again
today. I'm Kevin Hallanan and welcomeback to Winning Business TV and Radio on
W four C dot com, streaminglive on talkfour tv dot com in addition
to Facebook at Winning Business Radio aswell as of course, we're available in
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podcasts after the live show on tonsof outlets including YouTube, iHeartRadio, Spotify,
Apple, pretty much wherever you listento your favorite podcasts. The mission
of this show winning business radio andTV, as regular listeners and viewers know,
is to offer insights and advice tohelp people avoid the mistakes of others,
right to learn best practices, thehow tos, the what toos,
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the what not tos, to bechallenged, and certainly to be inspired by
the successes of others. But youknow, as I say every week,
virtually every successful person I've ever hada chance to talk to has had some
form of failure in their lives andcareers. So while we all have to
get our knees skinned once in awhile, I'm driven to keep those scrapes
from needing major surgery. Let's endeavorto learn from history, our own,
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usually, so we don't have torepeat it today. My guest is John
Covenant's founder and principle of Pathways Coachingand Consulting, public speaker excuse me,
an author of Life Without Crutches.Here's his bio. John Covenants is the
lead pathfinder for Pathways Coaching and Consulting. He works with business owners and individuals
who want to grow past where theyare. He helps them recapture the enjoyment
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and confidence that they'll succeed after manyhave approached, if not experienced burnout.
John is a born entrepreneur, havingtested out many of his ideas and inventions
certain in the first two decades ofhis life. His first official begin business,
excuse me, began in the twocar garage of his Mesa, Arizona
home, when he launched Handcrafted carAudio in July of two thousand and seven.
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As John tells it, back then, he had absolutely no idea what
it would take to grow a businessor where that path might lead him.
All he knew was that he lovedthe work and had become his passion and
livelihood over the past seven years.That he wanted to do it on his
own for his community in a waythat nobody else was And it was that
drive to be unique, to bethe best, and to serve others that
fueled the slow and steady growth thatcreated a solid foundation upon which he built
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a multiple award winning business over thatnext fifteen years before selling it profitably in
August of twenty twenty two. Handcraftedwas profitable in fourteen of those fifteen years,
nine of which saw more than aten percent year over year net profit
increase, provided for the families ofsome of the best in the industry,
tarret of near five star rating onevery platform, and was proudly described by
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money clients as not the cheapest,but the best in the valley. However,
it was the lessons that he learnedduring that time that were more important.
Setting a business up for success fromthe start with proper policies and procedures,
empowering employees to operate with autonomy,achieving company goals their own way,
but within a defined framework. Lessonsabout the efficacy of properly qualifying new customers,
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ensuring that their problems were solved satisfactorilyand for a price that's fair to
both parties. At last, butfar from least, the critical lessons of
taking the time to organize the books, optimize net profit, and leverage both
tangible and intangible assets to maximize theoverall value of the business. But the
story goes on. John had businesssuccess, but had become emotionally disconnected,
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overweight and hungover, and found himselfreading divorce papers that he had just been
served. Like so many others thathad come before him, he had poured
so much of himself into his building, into building his professional life, that
there was little energy left to sustaina healthy personal life, and so it's
slowly decayed in the years that havepassed since then, He's lost and kept
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off the extra sixty pounds that hisbad habits had kept on for so long.
He worked with family therapists and AAto figure out why he had been
turning to alcohol to solve life problemsin the first place. He's rebuilt relationships
with his daughter, family and friendsthat had withered through disconnection. John's a
father of one, a lover ofmusic, a climber of mountains, a
speaker and writer. Realizing his childhooddreams. John now writes and speaks about
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his experiences from the stage at eventsacross North America, combining decades of professional
retail sales and customer service experience withself test did methods for personal improvement,
and an undying dream to be arock star. I love that John's engagements
are educational, enlightening, entertaining,and empowering, leaving attendees wanting and able
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to change their professional and personal lives. I met John while I was speaking
at an industry event. He wasas well, and in fact, some
of you may recall that I hadJohn on this program as a guest.
Back in the fall of twenty nineteen, we had a really good conversation which
some of you may want to goback and listen to. Since the writing
of his book Life Without Crutches,I wanted to give him the opportunity to
tell us about the life, hislife and journey and the lessons that caused
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him to share his compelling and deeplypersonal story. John, Welcome back to
Winning Business Radio now Winning Business TVas well. Thank you man. That
was awesome. I was just sittingthere like listening to you recite that whole
thing, and it was very powerfuland invigorating and reaffirming, you know,
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for a lot of things I've beenthinking about lately, on all the things
I've been doing so well, I'mglad. I'm glad I tweaked it slightly,
but everything's true. I noticed.But Hey, that's that's all good.
I think that you know me wellenough to be able to do something
like that, and it's all good. All right. So let's get some
background. Tell everybody where you grewup. Where I grew up, Gilbert,
Arizona, Gilbert, Averzona and it'sjust a suburb of Phoenix, Okay,
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And how did you get into thetwelve old industry or car audio is
we like to call it for listenersto understand and viewers to understand. How
did you get into that business andhow to become a passion? I mean,
I got into the business because Igot my first car when I was
about fifteen years old. I boughtit a little bit prior to you know,
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being able to legally drive, sothat I could make it mine,
fix it up a little bit,and one of the first things I did
to it was have a sound systemput into it. Of course, the
car couldn't even reliably shift out ofsecond year all the time. But I
had sub offers, you know,because music is life, and I always
loved music one hundred percent. Thetwo passions of mine have always been music
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and tinkering with things. I wasthat kid that would like take things apart
just to see how they work,you know. So I got music,
I got sub offers in the car, and then when I had to get
rid of that car because of theeventually didn't go into second year at all,
I removed that stuff from the vehiclemyself installed in my next vehicle and
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realized I can do this, andthen I started doing it. For friends
and family, and next thing,you know, I got a job at
like a local shop in town whenI was a teenager and just kind of
took off from there. I gotmore like my position grew from there,
from an entry level installer to afull time installer to a supervisor manager.
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And I worked as a working atdealerships, you know, installing products on
cars on dealership lots. I workedat custom shops, I worked at big
box stores. I did everything,really, every role that you could really
imagine in the industry I did.And then I would say that my passion
for it was it was never aboutcars. I'm not a car person.
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I don't really care about cars verymuch. It was about music. It
was about the fabrication. It wasabout the difficulty of making it all come
together and recreating good, high qualitymusic in a difficult environment like a car.
But the real passion for it reallycame when I started Handcrafted in two
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thousand and seven, because then itwas like, not only am I am
I using all of my skills torecreate music in a car and overcome the
challenges that that entails. Now I'musing all my skills to build a business
that does that and all the challengesthat that entails, and that's really where
the passion came into play for sure, And I've seen a couple of them.
(08:54):
Your company, Handcrafted became an awardwinning retail shop us about you know
how it felt to achieve that levelof success and then you ended up selling
that business and tell us the whybehind that? Well, how long you
got we have an hour? Iknow, I know what. There's a
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lot to talk about. It's alot to unpack that I want to get
through as most as much of itas we can. But I'll be brief.
I'll be brief. So the awards, what it felt like to win
the awards pretty incredible. We wonseveral over the course of the fifteen years
that we were in business. Thefirst one was very meaningful for me.
That was an award called Installer ofthe Year. It was very meaningful for
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me because I actually I've won thatand was awarded that at a show that
I wasn't able to be present forbecause my daughter had just recently been born
and she had to have open heartsurgery when she was seven days old.
So actually the night of the awardsceremony was the night before her surgery,
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so I've there was no way Iwas going to go to the awards ceremony.
So one of my friends named Todd, recently passed away, accepted the
award on my behalf. So itwas really really touching and one of those
things that came at a moment whenlike I really needed a boost, you
know. So that was really good. We won Retailer of the Year,
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which was really important to me.That one was three years later in twenty
thirteen. That was really important tome because that was like a team effort
that was like all of us,what we built, you know, what
we did. We won an awardfor most Improved Location, which is great
because we did a lot of workto make that happen. So the awards,
there were some other ones there.The awards were a really nice,
(10:43):
well timed every single time. Itwas like a well timed award to show,
hey, you're doing something good,you know, and and we as
an industry recognize that you're doing somethinggood and we want to show you you
know that that's the case. Soit was powerful. I still have them.
I have the awards up in myoffice and you know, I displayed
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them proudly. So what was behindthe successful I might add sale of your
company. So that was that wassomething that was a couple of years in
the in the making, and youtouched on in the intro there. You
touched on my personal development and allthe things that I went through to that
end. And when I started doingthose things, my appreciation and my enjoyment
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of my life just amplified, andI started finding all kinds of other things
that I was that I was passionateabout as well, and I found myself
being drawn in different directions than Ihad been, you know, for the
previous I don't know, eight nine, ten, eleven, twelve years of
owning that business, and it cameto a point where I had had the
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thought for a good couple of yearsthat like, I think it's time to
get out of this. I thinkit's time to do something else. I
want to try something new. Ihad been doing car audio for like half
my life by the time I soldthat business. So when I when I
eventually did, it was a mixtureof wanting to move on to something else,
the timing being right, finding abuyer, and it just was one
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of those things where it was likeI remember, I remember thinking about it
and and trying to decide is thiswhat I want to do? And I
remember thinking, there's there's a forkin the road, you know, There's
there's two paths that I can takefrom here. One is either continue on
with this business the way that Ihave been. The other one is to
go on into something that I don'teven know what it is yet. I
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don't know, I don't know wherethat leads. But one thing I know
for sure is that continuing on withthis business that I'm in now is not
going to get me to where Iwant to be. Right So once I
came to that conclusion, it wasa pretty easy decision to go forward.
And so the way I put itis, it seems something like you had
an old new passion that's helping othersthrough your life lessons, an old new
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passion, like you found that passion, But it's not something that was a
new idea to you. Oh no, no, definitely not because I had
been doing I see what you meannow. I had been doing public speaking
and classes and stuff like that atindustry events for eight nine years prior to
COVID, you know, so I'vehad a lot of experience and time in
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helping other people. Yes, allright, we're going to talk about some
of the key moments in your lifethat you reference in the book. And
this is where I want to digin. But we're at believe it or
not, We right our first break. We're going to be back in just
about a minute with John Covenants.Stay tuned. You're listening to Winning Business
(13:46):
Radio with Kevin Helene on W fourCY Radio. That's W four cy dot
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(14:07):
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(14:35):
Winning Business Radio with Kevin Helena,presenting exciting topics and expert guests with one
goal in mind to help you succeedin business. Here once again it is
Kevin Helena. We're back with Johncovenants. The book is Life Without Crutches.
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First, John, where's this bookavailable? So it's available on Amazon.
It's also available on the website,which is Life Without Crutches dot com.
Life Without Crutches dot com excellent.So I don't know how many of
these we even have time for.There are so many seminal moments that you
reference. Your parents' divorce, beinga twelve year old seeking approval from,
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as you call it, the badkids, the family reunion on Long Island,
upping the ante when you got home, the house parties. I mean,
there's just so much stuff that toyou. You felt that strongly enough
to write about it, and it'spretty compelling. Take us through some of
that in terms of how by theway, yeah, by the way,
I don't want to dramatize the negativestuff I want to talk about, right,
(15:43):
it all fits. It's your story. So take us through some of
those most important moments that people willread when they get the book, and
some of the most important moments interms of how they contributed to where that
path led to. Right, Imean, I think the uh, the
the most important aspect of all ofit is was the underlying current of what
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each one of those the itch thateach one of those events scratched, you
know, which was that that thatunderlying need for to be noticed, acceptance,
approval, all that type of stuff. And that really was one of
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the one of the beautiful things aboutabout going through all of that and doing
the therapy and you know, goingthrough AA and all that type of stuff
is the way that it really requiresyou to really dig in deep to who
you are and what happened and wherethat came from. And one of the
things that I really realized after goingthrough all of that is just the effect
that you noted on there my parents'divorce, and it's something so common,
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right, so many of us gothrough that, and I think one of
the one of the major UH delineatefactors in how in the effect that that
has one way or the other onthe kids of divorce is how well it
is explained to them. And sofor me, where being so young,
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I was only seven years old andit happened, there was there was there
wasn't the ability within my family tohave that kind of conversation. And you
talked about some of the confusion thatyou experienced. Yeah, yeah, so
you know, you don't know allyou know, is your family is now
separated, and you know, youdon't know why. No one ever,
no one ever had the ability toexplain, here's what happened, and here's
(17:32):
why it happened, and so thatI could make sense of it, you
know, So then you kind ofdraw your own conclusions, you know.
And what anybody will tell you isthat a child of divorce, especially a
very young child of divorce, isalways going to assume it's because of them,
you know. And uh, andas I grew, you know,
as I as I got older,and I recognize I remember events in my
life that made me feel at thattime. I've got a different perspective on
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it now, but at that timemade me feel that I'm not good enough
unless I'm something more than what Iam. So there's always this desire to
be something more than what I am, to get this approval that I had
been lacking. So whether that waslike I said in the book, like
starting smoking with the bad kids,you know, or yeah, mowing the
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parties at my house, you know, Like my mom was a single mom.
She was working herself day and nightto keep us in that house.
And there I was throwing these likewild parties, because to me, what
that was was all the other kidsthought that I was cool because I was
able to give them this place wherethey could hang out and have good time
and whatever. So it just fedthat that need and it scratched that itch
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of like, finally you're getting that, getting the attention and approval that you
were looking for before. All thewhile you're having other success, right,
but you just you weren't healthy,you weren't satisfied, you weren't whole on
the inside. Uh, how didyour could you talk about it? How
did your you got arrested for duy? Yes? Right, talk about the
(19:04):
impact that that had with regard toyour parents. M that was so that
that happened when I was twenty three. By the way, at twenty three,
you were making really good money.You had a good job, you
had you were a homeowner. YesI was. Yeah, So I had
moved out of my parents' house prettypretty shortly after after becoming an adult.
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I'm fortunate in that I was alwaysable to command a high wage, you
know, for my skills, SoI was I was grateful in being able
to do that and being able tomove out and start my life and buy
a house and all that type ofstuff, and I was I was led
by by smart people to make thosekinds of decisions, So very grateful for
that. But yeah, yeah,I had a lot of really good things
going on, and I was buildinga lot of stuff, and things seemed
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to be going very very well.But there was still that having having spent
all of my teenage years, youknow, the event that you referenced in
Long Island at my grandparents house thathappened when I was thirteen, Right,
So my first drink ever was whenI was thirteen, and from then on
it just kind of became a regularthing to where it was like, this
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is just how you live, Thisis just how you navigate life. It
wasn't a question of, oh,I'm having a bad day, or oh
something happened, I need a consciousdecision to you know what, I'm just
going to have a drink. Itwas just what I just did. It
became normal. So by that time, even though I was having all these
things, all these successful, youknow, ventures in life and starting a
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family and all that kind of stuff, there was still that that habit.
It just became a part of theway that I lived life. So when
it eventually caught up to me andI got arrested for DUI and I had
to deal with all of that,and I had to go and do the
tense city thing in Phoenix where youknow they make you sleep outside and in
tents in the middle of the summer, and own up to that with my
(20:56):
with my family and my parents.It was it was a major It was
a major gut check and a majora major blow to the ego, uh
for sure, But I don't knowthat it it clearly it didn't. It
wasn't enough to be right the endof that, I kept going and there
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was another one another d u I. Oh so well that that one actually
was the second one. That's thesecond one, Oka, Yeah, when
I was twenty three. That wasthe second one. The first one was
I as a teenager. That onewas Wow, we're really going back here.
Yeah, So that one was whenI was seventeen. That one was
actually not for alcohol. That wasfor marijuana. Oh okay, yeah,
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but that one, so that thatone did have that one did have a
very big impact between me and myparents because that was when I was a
teenager. That was when I wasstill living at home, and that was
one of those moments where from thatpoint on that did draw a line in
the sand, and I had neverdone drugs ever again from there because it
was like this, this moment whereI realized, this is where this type
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of behavior leads you, and whenyou do these things that are dangerous and
careless about not only yourself and yourother people, this is where you end
up, but also this is theeffect that has on other people. To
see the way that it affected myparents and my siblings and everything like that.
But what I always thought was veryinteresting, and I wrote about in
the book as well, is thatit was easy to come to that conclusion
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about something so back then illegal asdrugs, but alcohol is a different thing
because of the way alcohol is soreadily accessible and celebrated and legal. It's
just normal. Like it's like ifyou go out and you don't drink,
it's almost weird in some ways,you know, And it's just so easily
(22:48):
accessible. So it was interesting tome when I stopped, and I once
I did quit, you know,and I stopped, and I looked back
on those times in my life.As I was writing the book, I
remember coming to the realization like,this is so strange that at seventeen when
I got caught driving while stoned andI went through all that, I was
like, well, I'm done withthat, never doing that again. But
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alcohol, Nope, that just wasn'tthe same thing. And it was just
a very interesting, just a position. So you mentioned that some of these
events they certainly shaped who you are, but to your point just now,
they weren't. Some of these whatothers might consider rock bottom events or certainly
(23:30):
negative events, didn't change the negativebehavior that you would continued in. Right
as you described it. You purchasednow your another home, new girlfriend became
your wife, baby girl, andas you mentioned, open heart surgery.
No, it's fault, just aabnormality, right, And she's flourishing today.
(23:53):
I know that because I've talked toyou. But you found that you
were numbing your emotions in your pain. You got to the point where your
marriage was failing, uh, anddivorce and a realization that things needed to
change. M hm. Take usto that moment. Yeah, So it's
it's like a I've come to realize. And one of the things that I
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talk a lot about in my Ido a class at at industry events called
cast Off the Crutches and it's aplay on the words of the book obviously,
and the intention there is to sharemy story and then to help people
to identify what their own struggles areand their own bad habits and behaviors that
they want to overcome, and thenshare with them the steps that I took
to do it to try to,you know, help them overcome their own
(24:36):
bad habits and behaviors. Right.So, what I've learned in having done
that is that more times than not, you have to we we learned the
biggest lessons from our biggest losses andand and the most pain, you know.
So what happened was that as eachone of those events took place,
(25:00):
it was easy for me to say, Okay, well, that was an
isolated event that happened one time.I'm not going to have to pay that
price again, you know, theDUI paid, the fines I did,
the jail time, that was done. I wasn't going to have to do
that again. When my daughter wentthrough a heart surgery, thing that was
done one time, and I didn'thave to do that again. All these
other things, it was so easyto come up with excuses for why that
(25:21):
wasn't it wasn't enough of an impetusto change. But when somebody looks at
you and says you are not goodenough anymore, and I don't want you
in my life anymore, and Iam going to legally separate myself from you.
And in doing so, you're losingthe house you know that you lived
(25:41):
in. You're losing half the timethat you get to spend with your daughter,
You're losing all these different things.For me, that was the point
where I really there. There isno more running from it. There's no
more ways to sugarcoat it or nottake account of it for it. This
is full on. This is becauseof what you do and the way that
(26:06):
you are that all these things arehappening to you. And so that,
in addition to the fact that Ihad now become a single father, which
I had never planned to do,and I was now responsible for this little
girl's quality of life for half ofher life the time that she was with
me, it was just one ofthose things where it was like, no
more, it's it's time to change. You cannot do this anymore. I
(26:29):
reached my rock bottom, like Ithink most people need to do. Now
you're what's the what's the word?I didn't even want to use. I'm
not sure if even substances, becauseit's not always a substance your crutch,
Yeah, was alcohol. There arelots of other kinds of crutches. Indeed,
talk about some of those, ohman, and and and that's you
(26:49):
know what's so incredible, you know, you know when you look back on
things and you see the steps thatit took to get to where you're at
now, and when you were onthat step, you had no idea where
it was going to leave. Butthen when you look back on it in
retrospect, it makes so much sense. And when I wrote that book,
I know I talked about these otherthese other crutches and the way that they
play, but I was so itwas I was so aware of what my
(27:15):
own one was. That like thatwas the that was really the the crux
of it, you know, thatwas like the that was that was the
big one right in my mind.And in the years that have passed since
then, and in the workshops thatI've done and people that I've talked to,
and I've watched people struggle with otherthings, legitimately struggle with these things,
(27:37):
it's it's opened my mind so muchto to the many ways that people
can become afflicted and and uh causethem to be completely distracted from their life.
And it's things as as dangerous asalcohol and drugs and gambling, you
know, things like that. Butthen it can also be things as simple
(27:57):
as social media and too much TV. And it all sounds so trite,
you know, like we all weall talk about we're on our phones too
much and d da da da dada. But what we don't talk about
enough is what is happening underneath it. All we talk about is put your
phone down, be present in themoment. And it's like, yeah,
that's great advice, and it's somethingthat you really should do. But what
(28:18):
we don't address enough is what itis that's underlying the surface that makes you
feel like you have to do thatin the first place. That's what really
needs to be addressed. And sofor me, one of the most powerful
things about this whole experience for mewas that moment when for me, quitting
drinking was just getting rid of thesubstance. It was just it was stopping
(28:44):
doing the thing that numbed away theemotions, yeah, the good and the
bad, but it wasn't doing anythingto actually solve the problem. It was
just taking away the substance. Sowhat can happen A lot of times you
may see this. If you seesomebody quit one thing, they take on
something else is move on to anew addiction. But when I, and
(29:07):
when I've seen other people get tothe bottom of what was actually driving that
behavior, no matter what the addictionis, that's where a real change happens.
All right, that's exactly where Iwant to go. We're going to
take our second break right now.We'll be back in just about a minute
with John Covens. You're listening toWinning Business Radio with Kevin Helenet on W
(29:30):
four CY Radio. That's W fourcy dot com. Don't go away.
More helpful information is coming right upright here on Winning Business Radio. The
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(30:18):
Helene, presenting exciting topics and expertguests with one goal in mind to help
you succeed in business. Here onceagain is Kevin Helene. Okay, we're
back with John Covenant's, author ofLife Without Crutches. Also, I love
(30:40):
this, by the way, leadpathfinder for Pathways coaching and consulting, touch
on, touch on your consulting company. You're coaching in consulting company? Oh
man, that is again I wastalking about It wasn't really a play on
words. It's just this is justa part of me right when I was
talking about the path that leads youare now, it's just so like coming
(31:03):
to that was just a natural evolutionof me. I think because I had
been doing the public speaking like Iwas talking about before, and doing the
classes at industry events for a longtime, you know, before selling my
business, before selling my first business, and so when I was thinking about
what I wanted to do next,I was I knew that what I wanted
(31:26):
to do was something that I coulddo anywhere right, and I wanted to
be able to do something that hadmore of a direct impact on other people
in the quality of their lives,because I didn't feel like, you know,
I loved installing audio systems and everythingthat we did at Handcrafted, but
I just want to do something thatI felt left a better legacy, I
(31:48):
guess maybe a way of saying.So when I when I sold Handcrafted and
I started thinking about what else itwas that I wanted to do, I
was actually I took a a break. I went a little sabbatical after that
happened, and I was hiking upin Canada and I had this thought,
this vision, this I was ledto see what it was that I was
(32:13):
supposed to be doing, and forme, it was always trying to help
other people, you know, inthose classes and in the public speaking.
I love getting up there. Iloved talking to people. I love sharing
my experiences. I loved what itsaid in the in the beginning of this
show when you were talking about howthe voiceover was saying helping people to learn
(32:34):
from other people's experiences. That's beenlike my whole motivation and everything I've done
for a long time. So whenI was on that hike and I was
thinking about what it is that Iwant to do next with my life.
This is like chapter two. Igot really clear on this idea that I
had that I had called hiking therapy. Like years ago, I had this
(32:55):
idea of hiking therapy because I justa avid hiker. When you go out
into nature. Every time I goout there, I get clear on things,
I figure stuff out. When Igo with other people, we have
conversations, everybody comes back feeling better. Right, It's like therapy for free.
So I just have this idea.In like twenty seventeen, I had
this idea that, like I shoulddo hiking therapy. And then when I
(33:15):
was on this hiking Canada, itjust got more clear and more clear and
more clear, and I realized thatwhat I want to do because of who
I am. I'm a born entrepreneur, you know, like it's just the
way my mind works. I'm constantlythinking about things that I can do,
and so I, as we know, because what we've talked about, I
(33:37):
went through that whole process of beingan entrepreneur and building a business, and
I lost myself to it. Ilost myself in multiple different ways like so
many people do. And I hadto fight back to get back my balance
and my health and my relationships.And part of that was due to the
alcohol, like we talked about,but it's due to that for so many
other people as well. So I'mso I'm so keyed into the to the
(34:00):
sacrifice that is required by a businessowner or a business leader to get to
where they want to go. AndI'm so keyed into what it feels like
to get there and look around youand be like, where is everybody?
You know? Why do I feelas badly as I do? So the
goal, the mission of what I'mtrying to do with Pathways is to help
(34:21):
business leaders recover the life that theysacrifice in pursuit of their career. And
for me, Pathways was just likeit was just a natural progression because it's
everything I love about what I've done. I take photos of Pathways. They
catch my eye when I'm out innature and I see something. It's just
it's just a thing for me.So it just fit together very well.
(34:44):
And when I start thinking about italong those lines on that hike in Canada,
I realized my intention in what I'mdoing here is to help you and
your business get to where you wantto go from where you are now and
help you find a pathway to dothat. That's awesome, Thank you.
There is contact information. There iscontact information for John. We'll give you
(35:04):
a chance to reach out to him. You begin to make changes, you
begin to identify the problem. Andwhat I think is really cool about this
book is that, as I saidearlier, it's not a glorification of the
of the junk. It's really aguide to help others identify what their problems
are and make some changes. Soyou start with I'm gonna point we've got
(35:24):
several things to go through, andI'll just kind of drop a thought and
you go ahead. How you talkabout how to identify the problem? How
do you help people identify the problem? First of all, I want to
say that you're absolutely right. Thewhole purpose of that book is too is
not to glorify the bad things it'stoo. It's to I tell my story
(35:47):
to help other people try to identifythemselves within it so that they can they
can feel more comfortable owning whatever itis that they're that they're going through.
So to help them to identify whatthe what the problem really is something that
we do in the workshops and somethingI do one on one when I'm working
with people. But the truth ofthe matter is that you know, you
(36:10):
know, they know, we allknow what is really holding us back.
We know what that thing is.Either people have said something to us about
it, We've paid prices for it, you know, like me with the
DUI, Like I knew what theproblem was. You know, my ex
wife, she would complain about it, so I knew what the problem was.
We just had this clever way oftelling ourselves it's not really a problem.
(36:30):
So really, the process of helpingsomebody to find out what their actual
problem is is when I'm doing apresentation and I'm talking about it and I'm
sharing this story and there and they'rethey're in it and they're thinking about their
own life, it's what are youthinking about right now? What's in your
head right now? And that's thething, And then you dig a little
(36:52):
bit deeper in there, because there'salways something a little bit more underneath that.
But that first thought that you have, that that thing that you that
you instant want to run away from, that's the thing that you need to
focus on. And then you talkabout how to identify how life could be
without that particular crutch. That's kindof cool. God, I love that
part. It's it's like, thenumber of times that I encounter the efficacy
(37:16):
of this part of this thing isunfathomable. Literally just encountered it very recently.
And so the whole idea behind that'sso there's two steps that are kind
of similar. The first one ishow much worse could your life get if
you don't get to handle on this? And the second part of that,
(37:36):
the very next follow up part ofit, is how much better could your
life get if you do get ahandle on this. And it's the idea
there is to create polarity, youknow, to pull you toward this better
life and away from this worse lifeby getting super super clear on the reality.
Because the truth is that, especiallywith our lives the way that they
(37:58):
are these days, and how distractand busy we are, it's so easy
to to just to just write itoff quickly, oh yeah, well,
you know that sucks. I shouldn'tbe doing that anymore, and just leave
it there, and you're not goingto change anything with that kind of attitude.
But if you can get really,really clear and honest with yourself about
just how just how much worse thingscould get for you if you don't fix
(38:20):
this, but then also how muchbetter your life could get. It gives
you something to push against, andit also gives you something to reach out
for, you know, and Ithink that I know that when you are
going through habit change and it's extremelydifficult to not go back to where you
were, those moments that you canthose those those glimpses of a life without
(38:45):
this thing are what you can holdon to for hope when those moments are
hard. So I love that part. Well, what's cool to me too,
is you help people figure out whythey would want to change for themselves,
not because you or somebody else istrying to tell them to do it
right. People change for their ownreasons, and that's that's why I think
that's really powerful. Then you helppeople identify why that negative behavior has continued,
(39:12):
you know, sort of the rootcause M Yeah, that's that's critical.
That's like what I was saying before. You know, you can take
away the substance all you want,and you're likely just going to find something
else to get addicted to. It'snot until you uncover the reason why you
turned to that substance in the firstplace, that you're going to actually ever
(39:35):
really be free from it. Otherwiseyou just kind of you're always living your
life running. And you know,something that was really powerful for me along
this journey was, you know,I went through AA and I had quit
drinking for like, I don't know, three months or so before I step
putting an AA room. I didn'tneed AA to stop drinking. Maybe it
was even it was six months.Actually I didn't need AA to keep me
(39:57):
from drinking. And that's just me, not you know, yeah, not
just crediting the system at all.I didn't need it. What I did
need it for was to figure outwhy. And once I did figure it
out why, it was like thebattle was over. Up until that moment,
I felt like I was always Ialways had to like stay away from
(40:17):
it, like no, like thereI can't even be around that, you
know, Like, But once Iunderstood why I went that way and why
I adopted this behavior in the firstplace, and I healed those wounds.
I say something in the in thebook that like once there's when there's no
more war to fight, there's noneed for weapons. Yeah, I saw
that. Yeah, you know,you just put them down, put down
(40:39):
the weapons, invite the monsters out. You know, you're not trying to
beat them back into the shadows anymore. You know, you invite them out,
bring them out into the light,see them for what they are,
make peace with it, except allthose parts about yourself, and once there's
no no monster to be afraid ofanymore than you know. That's powerful,
thank you. Right Next, howto find the strength This is to me
(41:02):
really important. How to find thestrength to make that decision that that part
comes in the sequential order of thingspurposefully, because it's like everything that we
talk about up until that point ismeant to make you really feel what you're
(41:27):
what you're going through. And ifI could have it my way, like
if I was if I if Icould do it exactly the way I wanted
to do it, I would createlike this like simulated life for you to
experience with like a three D headseton or whatever virtual reality headset on,
where you can literally feel and experiencewhat this is going to be. You
can experience your rock bottom in everyvisceral way possible. So yeah, right,
(41:53):
wouldn't that be cool? Yeah?So, if I could if I
could have my way, I woulddo that. Maybe one day I will,
I don't know, figure that outsomehow so that you can really feel
it. But for now, thebest thing that you can do, the
best thing I can think of todo, is to really dig in deep
and get some substance to that.So all those questions that come before that
are intended to really force you toget that substance, so that by the
(42:15):
time you get to the point whereit's time to make a decision, there's
not really a decision to be madeanymore. It's going to be so obvious
that if you don't make this decision, you are literally choosing a life that
is not going to serve you inany kind of good way. So that's
(42:36):
really the biggest part of it.And then if you can't, if even
that's not enough, honestly, andI'm just it's just the truth in my
own experience and the experience of witnessingother people, you just playing not ready
yet and you have to hurt more. And that sucks, but it's true.
And I think if most people,if they're willing to be honest with
themselves and look at their own lives, they'll be able to look at many
(43:00):
many, many times before they finallydid quit something, before they finally lost
the weight, before they finally quitdrinking, before they finally decided to start
reading more. Whatever the thing is, there were many times before then that
they knew they should have done it, but they didn't do it until the
point when it hurt them enough tosay never again. So, if you're
(43:21):
not ready to make the change yetafter going through all of that stuff,
you just need to hurt someone andthen you'll be there. That is right.
I think you're right there, rightright. But then you also have
the wisdom to put to suggest asupport team. Yes, what's your advice
for putting together a support team?That's critical and that's like something that's that's
(43:45):
a big function of AA, youknow, for people to be there and
support you along your journey to sobriety. And so you know, you can
use that as as a support team. You can use friends and family.
But I think the important thing thatyou have to pay attention to is who
it is that you are enrolling tobe a part of your support team to
(44:05):
make sure that they are going tohold you accountable and be honest with you
when when they see that you're you'reyou know, messing up and not doing
not live in the way that yousaid that you want to live, but
then also that they are living ina way that that that you aspire to
or admire and some kind of shouldbe somebody that is at a place that
(44:30):
you want to get to, sothat when you interact with them, they
can see how they can help you, and you can see how you want
to get to where they're at.But the most important thing is that we
can't do this alone. You know, we we we can't. We're not
meant to do much of anything alonelong term. You know. We're tribal
(44:52):
people, you know, we're meantto be in hurts, you know,
and stuff and uh, and wehave some things that we have to do
on our own. And it's avery healthy thing to be able to be
alone. But there's some things thatyou meet other people for and you should
have other people for, and thisis definitely one of them. There's a
lot of work that needs to bedone introspectively, you know. But times
when you're feeling weak, or you'refeeling stressed or like you need a hand,
(45:15):
that's when these people that you've chosenahead of time are the ones that
you can reach out to and say, hey, man, I'm not doing
well. You said you're going tobe there for me. And it's so
important with so many of these thingsthat the support team, the boundaries,
the substitutions, you have to createthese things ahead of time when you're in
a good mindset, right after itmade the decision that yes, I'm going
(45:37):
to make sures you're feeling all goodbecause we all know life is life,
and there's going to come a timewhen you're not feeling good sooner than later,
and it's going to test you.It's going to make you wonder can
I stick to this? And inthose moments of weakness is when you are
tent, when you're going to betempted to go back to the path of
least resistance for relief and for yourbrain. That's going to be alcohol,
(46:00):
drugs, TV, Facebook or whateverthe thing is to take your mind away
from what hurts. But if you'vedone the work ahead of time and you've
said when this happens, I'm goingto do this instead, you at least
have a chance because you've made aplan for what you're going to do when
that happens. And then even ifyou do fail. I just went through
(46:20):
this and my advice was, it'snot a failure, it's just a data
point. People look at setbacks andgoing out and lapses and whatever as like
well clock restarts, right, YeahI failed, and no you didn't know
you didn't You've You've got another datapoint that shows you that when I'm in
these circumstances, when I'm feeling thisway, here's what I do. Now
(46:45):
you can create more substitutions and boundariesaround that. Well. Interesting, we
have about a minute talk about somehealthy substitutions and boundaries. I mean,
it depends on what your thing is, you know, like if you if
it's a if it's a a dietthing, you know, like I had
that too, I incredibly unhealthy.So instead of having like a bag of
(47:06):
candy on my toolbox at work,I would have a bag of almonds or
something to that effects. Or ifit's if it's a sedentary lifestyle, then
your substitution is you know, disconnectto deactivate your your you know, Facebook,
Netflix or whatever, whatever the thingis. It's about identifying the things
(47:27):
that are are going to be aproblem for you ahead of time and creating
a plan to not have them becomethat problem for you. So for me,
it was like I wouldn't hang outwith certain people for a while while
I was, you know, learningto get sober. I wouldn't go to
certain places because it's just going tobe an unnecessary trigger for me. Think
(47:50):
about the opposite right of what yourthing is, and let that be the
thing. You go to. Somethinghealthy. You know what's healthy. We
all know what's healthy. You knowyou don't need to be hold that.
This is very good. Last question, who? And you can look at
this from two perspectives, one perspectiveor the or the other or both.
Who would the listening and viewing audiencesshould reach out to you? And why?
(48:14):
Who would the who? Who inthese listening and viewing audiences should reach
out to you? And why?Oh? Gotcha? So, like I
guess who who is a good fitfor for Pathways if they want to?
Right? Okay? Well, likeI said before, the mission statement of
Pathways is to help business leaders recoverthe life that they sacrifice in pursuit of
(48:34):
their career. So the so theperson who I'm who my particular skill set
and experiences is most set up tohelp are business owners business leaders who've given
everything that they've got to create thisbusiness or this this this career that they
are succeeding in and it's doing wellor or to some degree, you know,
(48:57):
it's it's it's it's okay, butthey've recognize that they've lost quality of
life and not happy in this areaand not happy in that area. Because
what I do is a two prongedapproach. There's the personal development side and
the professional development side. So Iwork with you as an individual to help
you to overcome whatever your self limitingbeliefs are, your habits, your behaviors,
all these things that are holding youback from being the most effective person
(49:20):
in your personal life and your professionallife. But then I also have a
whole other side of the business thatworks on the business itself, how to
be more profitable, less costly,more effective, more valuable if you ever
want to sell it one day,that type of thing. So you work
on both of those separately, andthen when they come together in the business,
they can get to where they wantto go. So the right person
for me is somebody who is abusiness leader, has given a lot to
(49:44):
where they're at and they want toget further. They have goals of where
they want to reach and they're havinga hard time reaching those because of personal
and professional reasons. Cool. You'veseen the contact information, John, We
are out of time, sadly,this has been really cool. The book
is Life Without Crutches, available onAmazon. John Covenants is the author.
(50:04):
He's a lot more than the book, but get the book and thank you
for being here. Really appreciate it. Thanks man, appreciate you, and
thank you everybody for watching and listening. This is a show about business and
business challenges, life challenges too.If you've got concerns about the growth of
your company, feel free to reachout to me on Facebook or LinkedIn at
Winning Business Radio. You can dropme a note, Bobby. The easiest
email for now is Kevin at WinningBusinessradio dot com. Our companies Winning Incorporated.
(50:30):
We're part of Sandler Training. Wedeveloped sales teams into high achievers and
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maybe we should have a conversation.Thank you, producer to producer and engineer
one for another job well done.Thank you one. Be sure to join
us next week that's Monday, Aprileighth. We'll do it again with another
interesting guest. Until then, thisis Kevin Helenan you've been listening to Winning
(50:54):
Business Radio with your host, KevinHelena. If you missed any part of
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pm Eastern Time to listen live toWinning Business Radio on W four CY Radio
(51:19):
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(00:21):
FOURCY Radio. Churchill said, thosewho failed to learn from history are condemned
to repeat it. Kevin helen nbelieves that certainly applies to business. Welcome
to Winning Business Radio here at Wfour CY Radio. That's W four cy
(00:44):
dot com and now your host,Kevin Helena. Thanks for joining in again
today. I'm Kevin Hallanan and welcomeback to Winning Business TV and Radio on
W four C dot com, streaminglive on talkfour tv dot com in addition
to Facebook at Winning Business Radio aswell as of course, we're available in
(01:07):
podcasts after the live show on tonsof outlets including YouTube, iHeartRadio, Spotify,
Apple, pretty much wherever you listento your favorite podcasts. The mission
of this show winning business radio andTV, as regular listeners and viewers know,
is to offer insights and advice tohelp people avoid the mistakes of others,
right to learn best practices, thehow tos, the what toos,
(01:30):
the what not tos, to bechallenged, and certainly to be inspired by
the successes of others. But youknow, as I say every week,
virtually every successful person I've ever hada chance to talk to has had some
form of failure in their lives andcareers. So while we all have to
get our knees skinned once in awhile, I'm driven to keep those scrapes
from needing major surgery. Let's endeavorto learn from history, our own,
(01:52):
usually, so we don't have torepeat it today. My guest is John
Covenant's founder and principle of Pathways Coachingand Consulting, public speaker excuse me,
an author of Life Without Crutches.Here's his bio. John Covenants is the
lead pathfinder for Pathways Coaching and Consulting. He works with business owners and individuals
who want to grow past where theyare. He helps them recapture the enjoyment
(02:15):
and confidence that they'll succeed after manyhave approached, if not experienced burnout.
John is a born entrepreneur, havingtested out many of his ideas and inventions
certain in the first two decades ofhis life. His first official begin business,
excuse me, began in the twocar garage of his Mesa, Arizona
home, when he launched Handcrafted carAudio in July of two thousand and seven.
(02:37):
As John tells it, back then, he had absolutely no idea what
it would take to grow a businessor where that path might lead him.
All he knew was that he lovedthe work and had become his passion and
livelihood over the past seven years.That he wanted to do it on his
own for his community in a waythat nobody else was And it was that
drive to be unique, to bethe best, and to serve others that
fueled the slow and steady growth thatcreated a solid foundation upon which he built
(03:00):
a multiple award winning business over thatnext fifteen years before selling it profitably in
August of twenty twenty two. Handcraftedwas profitable in fourteen of those fifteen years,
nine of which saw more than aten percent year over year net profit
increase, provided for the families ofsome of the best in the industry,
tarret of near five star rating onevery platform, and was proudly described by
(03:22):
money clients as not the cheapest,but the best in the valley. However,
it was the lessons that he learnedduring that time that were more important.
Setting a business up for success fromthe start with proper policies and procedures,
empowering employees to operate with autonomy,achieving company goals their own way,
but within a defined framework. Lessonsabout the efficacy of properly qualifying new customers,
(03:44):
ensuring that their problems were solved satisfactorilyand for a price that's fair to
both parties. At last, butfar from least, the critical lessons of
taking the time to organize the books, optimize net profit, and leverage both
tangible and intangible assets to maximize theoverall value of the business. But the
story goes on. John had businesssuccess, but had become emotionally disconnected,
(04:06):
overweight and hungover, and found himselfreading divorce papers that he had just been
served. Like so many others thathad come before him, he had poured
so much of himself into his building, into building his professional life, that
there was little energy left to sustaina healthy personal life, and so it's
slowly decayed in the years that havepassed since then, He's lost and kept
(04:26):
off the extra sixty pounds that hisbad habits had kept on for so long.
He worked with family therapists and AAto figure out why he had been
turning to alcohol to solve life problemsin the first place. He's rebuilt relationships
with his daughter, family and friendsthat had withered through disconnection. John's a
father of one, a lover ofmusic, a climber of mountains, a
speaker and writer. Realizing his childhooddreams. John now writes and speaks about
(04:49):
his experiences from the stage at eventsacross North America, combining decades of professional
retail sales and customer service experience withself test did methods for personal improvement,
and an undying dream to be arock star. I love that John's engagements
are educational, enlightening, entertaining,and empowering, leaving attendees wanting and able
(05:10):
to change their professional and personal lives. I met John while I was speaking
at an industry event. He wasas well, and in fact, some
of you may recall that I hadJohn on this program as a guest.
Back in the fall of twenty nineteen, we had a really good conversation which
some of you may want to goback and listen to. Since the writing
of his book Life Without Crutches,I wanted to give him the opportunity to
tell us about the life, hislife and journey and the lessons that caused
(05:32):
him to share his compelling and deeplypersonal story. John, Welcome back to
Winning Business Radio now Winning Business TVas well. Thank you man. That
was awesome. I was just sittingthere like listening to you recite that whole
thing, and it was very powerfuland invigorating and reaffirming, you know,
(05:55):
for a lot of things I've beenthinking about lately, on all the things
I've been doing so well, I'mglad. I'm glad I tweaked it slightly,
but everything's true. I noticed.But Hey, that's that's all good.
I think that you know me wellenough to be able to do something
like that, and it's all good. All right. So let's get some
background. Tell everybody where you grewup. Where I grew up, Gilbert,
Arizona, Gilbert, Averzona and it'sjust a suburb of Phoenix, Okay,
(06:18):
And how did you get into thetwelve old industry or car audio is
we like to call it for listenersto understand and viewers to understand. How
did you get into that business andhow to become a passion? I mean,
I got into the business because Igot my first car when I was
about fifteen years old. I boughtit a little bit prior to you know,
(06:39):
being able to legally drive, sothat I could make it mine,
fix it up a little bit,and one of the first things I did
to it was have a sound systemput into it. Of course, the
car couldn't even reliably shift out ofsecond year all the time. But I
had sub offers, you know,because music is life, and I always
loved music one hundred percent. Thetwo passions of mine have always been music
(07:01):
and tinkering with things. I wasthat kid that would like take things apart
just to see how they work,you know. So I got music,
I got sub offers in the car, and then when I had to get
rid of that car because of theeventually didn't go into second year at all,
I removed that stuff from the vehiclemyself installed in my next vehicle and
(07:21):
realized I can do this, andthen I started doing it. For friends
and family, and next thing,you know, I got a job at
like a local shop in town whenI was a teenager and just kind of
took off from there. I gotmore like my position grew from there,
from an entry level installer to afull time installer to a supervisor manager.
(07:45):
And I worked as a working atdealerships, you know, installing products on
cars on dealership lots. I workedat custom shops, I worked at big
box stores. I did everything,really, every role that you could really
imagine in the industry I did.And then I would say that my passion
for it was it was never aboutcars. I'm not a car person.
(08:07):
I don't really care about cars verymuch. It was about music. It
was about the fabrication. It wasabout the difficulty of making it all come
together and recreating good, high qualitymusic in a difficult environment like a car.
But the real passion for it reallycame when I started Handcrafted in two
(08:30):
thousand and seven, because then itwas like, not only am I am
I using all of my skills torecreate music in a car and overcome the
challenges that that entails. Now I'musing all my skills to build a business
that does that and all the challengesthat that entails, and that's really where
the passion came into play for sure, And I've seen a couple of them.
(08:54):
Your company, Handcrafted became an awardwinning retail shop us about you know
how it felt to achieve that levelof success and then you ended up selling
that business and tell us the whybehind that? Well, how long you
got we have an hour? Iknow, I know what. There's a
(09:15):
lot to talk about. It's alot to unpack that I want to get
through as most as much of itas we can. But I'll be brief.
I'll be brief. So the awards, what it felt like to win
the awards pretty incredible. We wonseveral over the course of the fifteen years
that we were in business. Thefirst one was very meaningful for me.
That was an award called Installer ofthe Year. It was very meaningful for
(09:37):
me because I actually I've won thatand was awarded that at a show that
I wasn't able to be present forbecause my daughter had just recently been born
and she had to have open heartsurgery when she was seven days old.
So actually the night of the awardsceremony was the night before her surgery,
(09:58):
so I've there was no way Iwas going to go to the awards ceremony.
So one of my friends named Todd, recently passed away, accepted the
award on my behalf. So itwas really really touching and one of those
things that came at a moment whenlike I really needed a boost, you
know. So that was really good. We won Retailer of the Year,
(10:20):
which was really important to me.That one was three years later in twenty
thirteen. That was really important tome because that was like a team effort
that was like all of us,what we built, you know, what
we did. We won an awardfor most Improved Location, which is great
because we did a lot of workto make that happen. So the awards,
there were some other ones there.The awards were a really nice,
(10:43):
well timed every single time. Itwas like a well timed award to show,
hey, you're doing something good,you know, and and we as
an industry recognize that you're doing somethinggood and we want to show you you
know that that's the case. Soit was powerful. I still have them.
I have the awards up in myoffice and you know, I displayed
(11:05):
them proudly. So what was behindthe successful I might add sale of your
company. So that was that wassomething that was a couple of years in
the in the making, and youtouched on in the intro there. You
touched on my personal development and allthe things that I went through to that
end. And when I started doingthose things, my appreciation and my enjoyment
(11:28):
of my life just amplified, andI started finding all kinds of other things
that I was that I was passionateabout as well, and I found myself
being drawn in different directions than Ihad been, you know, for the
previous I don't know, eight nine, ten, eleven, twelve years of
owning that business, and it cameto a point where I had had the
(11:50):
thought for a good couple of yearsthat like, I think it's time to
get out of this. I thinkit's time to do something else. I
want to try something new. Ihad been doing car audio for like half
my life by the time I soldthat business. So when I when I
eventually did, it was a mixtureof wanting to move on to something else,
the timing being right, finding abuyer, and it just was one
(12:13):
of those things where it was likeI remember, I remember thinking about it
and and trying to decide is thiswhat I want to do? And I
remember thinking, there's there's a forkin the road, you know, There's
there's two paths that I can takefrom here. One is either continue on
with this business the way that Ihave been. The other one is to
go on into something that I don'teven know what it is yet. I
(12:37):
don't know, I don't know wherethat leads. But one thing I know
for sure is that continuing on withthis business that I'm in now is not
going to get me to where Iwant to be. Right So once I
came to that conclusion, it wasa pretty easy decision to go forward.
And so the way I put itis, it seems something like you had
an old new passion that's helping othersthrough your life lessons, an old new
(13:01):
passion, like you found that passion, But it's not something that was a
new idea to you. Oh no, no, definitely not because I had
been doing I see what you meannow. I had been doing public speaking
and classes and stuff like that atindustry events for eight nine years prior to
COVID, you know, so I'vehad a lot of experience and time in
(13:24):
helping other people. Yes, allright, we're going to talk about some
of the key moments in your lifethat you reference in the book. And
this is where I want to digin. But we're at believe it or
not, We right our first break. We're going to be back in just
about a minute with John Covenants.Stay tuned. You're listening to Winning Business
(13:46):
Radio with Kevin Helene on W fourCY Radio. That's W four cy dot
com. Don't go away. Morehelpful information is coming right up right here
on Winning Business Radio. Have youever dreamt of being on the radio,
Well, now it's your chance bea radio show guest on the number one
(14:07):
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(14:35):
Winning Business Radio with Kevin Helena,presenting exciting topics and expert guests with one
goal in mind to help you succeedin business. Here once again it is
Kevin Helena. We're back with Johncovenants. The book is Life Without Crutches.
(14:56):
First, John, where's this bookavailable? So it's available on Amazon.
It's also available on the website,which is Life Without Crutches dot com.
Life Without Crutches dot com excellent.So I don't know how many of
these we even have time for.There are so many seminal moments that you
reference. Your parents' divorce, beinga twelve year old seeking approval from,
(15:18):
as you call it, the badkids, the family reunion on Long Island,
upping the ante when you got home, the house parties. I mean,
there's just so much stuff that toyou. You felt that strongly enough
to write about it, and it'spretty compelling. Take us through some of
that in terms of how by theway, yeah, by the way,
I don't want to dramatize the negativestuff I want to talk about, right,
(15:43):
it all fits. It's your story. So take us through some of
those most important moments that people willread when they get the book, and
some of the most important moments interms of how they contributed to where that
path led to. Right, Imean, I think the uh, the
the most important aspect of all ofit is was the underlying current of what
(16:07):
each one of those the itch thateach one of those events scratched, you
know, which was that that thatunderlying need for to be noticed, acceptance,
approval, all that type of stuff. And that really was one of
(16:29):
the one of the beautiful things aboutabout going through all of that and doing
the therapy and you know, goingthrough AA and all that type of stuff
is the way that it really requiresyou to really dig in deep to who
you are and what happened and wherethat came from. And one of the
things that I really realized after goingthrough all of that is just the effect
that you noted on there my parents'divorce, and it's something so common,
(16:51):
right, so many of us gothrough that, and I think one of
the one of the major UH delineatefactors in how in the effect that that
has one way or the other onthe kids of divorce is how well it
is explained to them. And sofor me, where being so young,
(17:11):
I was only seven years old andit happened, there was there was there
wasn't the ability within my family tohave that kind of conversation. And you
talked about some of the confusion thatyou experienced. Yeah, yeah, so
you know, you don't know allyou know, is your family is now
separated, and you know, youdon't know why. No one ever,
no one ever had the ability toexplain, here's what happened, and here's
(17:32):
why it happened, and so thatI could make sense of it, you
know, So then you kind ofdraw your own conclusions, you know.
And what anybody will tell you isthat a child of divorce, especially a
very young child of divorce, isalways going to assume it's because of them,
you know. And uh, andas I grew, you know,
as I as I got older,and I recognize I remember events in my
life that made me feel at thattime. I've got a different perspective on
(17:56):
it now, but at that timemade me feel that I'm not good enough
unless I'm something more than what Iam. So there's always this desire to
be something more than what I am, to get this approval that I had
been lacking. So whether that waslike I said in the book, like
starting smoking with the bad kids,you know, or yeah, mowing the
(18:17):
parties at my house, you know, Like my mom was a single mom.
She was working herself day and nightto keep us in that house.
And there I was throwing these likewild parties, because to me, what
that was was all the other kidsthought that I was cool because I was
able to give them this place wherethey could hang out and have good time
and whatever. So it just fedthat that need and it scratched that itch
(18:40):
of like, finally you're getting that, getting the attention and approval that you
were looking for before. All thewhile you're having other success, right,
but you just you weren't healthy,you weren't satisfied, you weren't whole on
the inside. Uh, how didyour could you talk about it? How
did your you got arrested for duy? Yes? Right, talk about the
(19:04):
impact that that had with regard toyour parents. M that was so that
that happened when I was twenty three. By the way, at twenty three,
you were making really good money.You had a good job, you
had you were a homeowner. YesI was. Yeah, So I had
moved out of my parents' house prettypretty shortly after after becoming an adult.
(19:25):
I'm fortunate in that I was alwaysable to command a high wage, you
know, for my skills, SoI was I was grateful in being able
to do that and being able tomove out and start my life and buy
a house and all that type ofstuff, and I was I was led
by by smart people to make thosekinds of decisions, So very grateful for
that. But yeah, yeah,I had a lot of really good things
going on, and I was buildinga lot of stuff, and things seemed
(19:49):
to be going very very well.But there was still that having having spent
all of my teenage years, youknow, the event that you referenced in
Long Island at my grandparents house thathappened when I was thirteen, Right,
So my first drink ever was whenI was thirteen, and from then on
it just kind of became a regularthing to where it was like, this
(20:11):
is just how you live, Thisis just how you navigate life. It
wasn't a question of, oh,I'm having a bad day, or oh
something happened, I need a consciousdecision to you know what, I'm just
going to have a drink. Itwas just what I just did. It
became normal. So by that time, even though I was having all these
things, all these successful, youknow, ventures in life and starting a
(20:32):
family and all that kind of stuff, there was still that that habit.
It just became a part of theway that I lived life. So when
it eventually caught up to me andI got arrested for DUI and I had
to deal with all of that,and I had to go and do the
tense city thing in Phoenix where youknow they make you sleep outside and in
tents in the middle of the summer, and own up to that with my
(20:56):
with my family and my parents.It was it was a major It was
a major gut check and a majora major blow to the ego, uh
for sure, But I don't knowthat it it clearly it didn't. It
wasn't enough to be right the endof that, I kept going and there
(21:17):
was another one another d u I. Oh so well that that one actually
was the second one. That's thesecond one, Oka, Yeah, when
I was twenty three. That wasthe second one. The first one was
I as a teenager. That onewas Wow, we're really going back here.
Yeah, So that one was whenI was seventeen. That one was
actually not for alcohol. That wasfor marijuana. Oh okay, yeah,
(21:40):
but that one, so that thatone did have that one did have a
very big impact between me and myparents because that was when I was a
teenager. That was when I wasstill living at home, and that was
one of those moments where from thatpoint on that did draw a line in
the sand, and I had neverdone drugs ever again from there because it
was like this, this moment whereI realized, this is where this type
(22:03):
of behavior leads you, and whenyou do these things that are dangerous and
careless about not only yourself and yourother people, this is where you end
up, but also this is theeffect that has on other people. To
see the way that it affected myparents and my siblings and everything like that.
But what I always thought was veryinteresting, and I wrote about in
the book as well, is thatit was easy to come to that conclusion
(22:25):
about something so back then illegal asdrugs, but alcohol is a different thing
because of the way alcohol is soreadily accessible and celebrated and legal. It's
just normal. Like it's like ifyou go out and you don't drink,
it's almost weird in some ways,you know, And it's just so easily
(22:48):
accessible. So it was interesting tome when I stopped, and I once
I did quit, you know,and I stopped, and I looked back
on those times in my life.As I was writing the book, I
remember coming to the realization like,this is so strange that at seventeen when
I got caught driving while stoned andI went through all that, I was
like, well, I'm done withthat, never doing that again. But
(23:08):
alcohol, Nope, that just wasn'tthe same thing. And it was just
a very interesting, just a position. So you mentioned that some of these
events they certainly shaped who you are, but to your point just now,
they weren't. Some of these whatothers might consider rock bottom events or certainly
(23:30):
negative events, didn't change the negativebehavior that you would continued in. Right
as you described it. You purchasednow your another home, new girlfriend became
your wife, baby girl, andas you mentioned, open heart surgery.
No, it's fault, just aabnormality, right, And she's flourishing today.
(23:53):
I know that because I've talked toyou. But you found that you
were numbing your emotions in your pain. You got to the point where your
marriage was failing, uh, anddivorce and a realization that things needed to
change. M hm. Take usto that moment. Yeah, So it's
it's like a I've come to realize. And one of the things that I
(24:15):
talk a lot about in my Ido a class at at industry events called
cast Off the Crutches and it's aplay on the words of the book obviously,
and the intention there is to sharemy story and then to help people
to identify what their own struggles areand their own bad habits and behaviors that
they want to overcome, and thenshare with them the steps that I took
to do it to try to,you know, help them overcome their own
(24:36):
bad habits and behaviors. Right.So, what I've learned in having done
that is that more times than not, you have to we we learned the
biggest lessons from our biggest losses andand and the most pain, you know.
So what happened was that as eachone of those events took place,
(25:00):
it was easy for me to say, Okay, well, that was an
isolated event that happened one time.I'm not going to have to pay that
price again, you know, theDUI paid, the fines I did,
the jail time, that was done. I wasn't going to have to do
that again. When my daughter wentthrough a heart surgery, thing that was
done one time, and I didn'thave to do that again. All these
other things, it was so easyto come up with excuses for why that
(25:21):
wasn't it wasn't enough of an impetusto change. But when somebody looks at
you and says you are not goodenough anymore, and I don't want you
in my life anymore, and Iam going to legally separate myself from you.
And in doing so, you're losingthe house you know that you lived
(25:41):
in. You're losing half the timethat you get to spend with your daughter,
You're losing all these different things.For me, that was the point
where I really there. There isno more running from it. There's no
more ways to sugarcoat it or nottake account of it for it. This
is full on. This is becauseof what you do and the way that
(26:06):
you are that all these things arehappening to you. And so that,
in addition to the fact that Ihad now become a single father, which
I had never planned to do,and I was now responsible for this little
girl's quality of life for half ofher life the time that she was with
me, it was just one ofthose things where it was like, no
more, it's it's time to change. You cannot do this anymore. I
(26:29):
reached my rock bottom, like Ithink most people need to do. Now
you're what's the what's the word?I didn't even want to use. I'm
not sure if even substances, becauseit's not always a substance your crutch,
Yeah, was alcohol. There arelots of other kinds of crutches. Indeed,
talk about some of those, ohman, and and and that's you
(26:49):
know what's so incredible, you know, you know when you look back on
things and you see the steps thatit took to get to where you're at
now, and when you were onthat step, you had no idea where
it was going to leave. Butthen when you look back on it in
retrospect, it makes so much sense. And when I wrote that book,
I know I talked about these otherthese other crutches and the way that they
play, but I was so itwas I was so aware of what my
(27:15):
own one was. That like thatwas the that was really the the crux
of it, you know, thatwas like the that was that was the
big one right in my mind.And in the years that have passed since
then, and in the workshops thatI've done and people that I've talked to,
and I've watched people struggle with otherthings, legitimately struggle with these things,
(27:37):
it's it's opened my mind so muchto to the many ways that people
can become afflicted and and uh causethem to be completely distracted from their life.
And it's things as as dangerous asalcohol and drugs and gambling, you
know, things like that. Butthen it can also be things as simple
(27:57):
as social media and too much TV. And it all sounds so trite,
you know, like we all weall talk about we're on our phones too
much and d da da da dada. But what we don't talk about
enough is what is happening underneath it. All we talk about is put your
phone down, be present in themoment. And it's like, yeah,
that's great advice, and it's somethingthat you really should do. But what
(28:18):
we don't address enough is what itis that's underlying the surface that makes you
feel like you have to do thatin the first place. That's what really
needs to be addressed. And sofor me, one of the most powerful
things about this whole experience for mewas that moment when for me, quitting
drinking was just getting rid of thesubstance. It was just it was stopping
(28:44):
doing the thing that numbed away theemotions, yeah, the good and the
bad, but it wasn't doing anythingto actually solve the problem. It was
just taking away the substance. Sowhat can happen A lot of times you
may see this. If you seesomebody quit one thing, they take on
something else is move on to anew addiction. But when I, and
(29:07):
when I've seen other people get tothe bottom of what was actually driving that
behavior, no matter what the addictionis, that's where a real change happens.
All right, that's exactly where Iwant to go. We're going to
take our second break right now.We'll be back in just about a minute
with John Covens. You're listening toWinning Business Radio with Kevin Helenet on W
(29:30):
four CY Radio. That's W fourcy dot com. Don't go away.
More helpful information is coming right upright here on Winning Business Radio. The
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(29:52):
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So go to yp dot com ordownload the app to search local, find
local, and save local. Andnow back to Winning Business Radio with Kevin
(30:18):
Helene, presenting exciting topics and expertguests with one goal in mind to help
you succeed in business. Here onceagain is Kevin Helene. Okay, we're
back with John Covenant's, author ofLife Without Crutches. Also, I love
(30:40):
this, by the way, leadpathfinder for Pathways coaching and consulting, touch
on, touch on your consulting company. You're coaching in consulting company? Oh
man, that is again I wastalking about It wasn't really a play on
words. It's just this is justa part of me right when I was
talking about the path that leads youare now, it's just so like coming
(31:03):
to that was just a natural evolutionof me. I think because I had
been doing the public speaking like Iwas talking about before, and doing the
classes at industry events for a longtime, you know, before selling my
business, before selling my first business, and so when I was thinking about
what I wanted to do next,I was I knew that what I wanted
(31:26):
to do was something that I coulddo anywhere right, and I wanted to
be able to do something that hadmore of a direct impact on other people
in the quality of their lives,because I didn't feel like, you know,
I loved installing audio systems and everythingthat we did at Handcrafted, but
I just want to do something thatI felt left a better legacy, I
(31:48):
guess maybe a way of saying.So when I when I sold Handcrafted and
I started thinking about what else itwas that I wanted to do, I
was actually I took a a break. I went a little sabbatical after that
happened, and I was hiking upin Canada and I had this thought,
this vision, this I was ledto see what it was that I was
(32:13):
supposed to be doing, and forme, it was always trying to help
other people, you know, inthose classes and in the public speaking.
I love getting up there. Iloved talking to people. I love sharing
my experiences. I loved what itsaid in the in the beginning of this
show when you were talking about howthe voiceover was saying helping people to learn
(32:34):
from other people's experiences. That's beenlike my whole motivation and everything I've done
for a long time. So whenI was on that hike and I was
thinking about what it is that Iwant to do next with my life.
This is like chapter two. Igot really clear on this idea that I
had that I had called hiking therapy. Like years ago, I had this
(32:55):
idea of hiking therapy because I justa avid hiker. When you go out
into nature. Every time I goout there, I get clear on things,
I figure stuff out. When Igo with other people, we have
conversations, everybody comes back feeling better. Right, It's like therapy for free.
So I just have this idea.In like twenty seventeen, I had
this idea that, like I shoulddo hiking therapy. And then when I
(33:15):
was on this hiking Canada, itjust got more clear and more clear and
more clear, and I realized thatwhat I want to do because of who
I am. I'm a born entrepreneur, you know, like it's just the
way my mind works. I'm constantlythinking about things that I can do,
and so I, as we know, because what we've talked about, I
(33:37):
went through that whole process of beingan entrepreneur and building a business, and
I lost myself to it. Ilost myself in multiple different ways like so
many people do. And I hadto fight back to get back my balance
and my health and my relationships.And part of that was due to the
alcohol, like we talked about,but it's due to that for so many
other people as well. So I'mso I'm so keyed into the to the
(34:00):
sacrifice that is required by a businessowner or a business leader to get to
where they want to go. AndI'm so keyed into what it feels like
to get there and look around youand be like, where is everybody?
You know? Why do I feelas badly as I do? So the
goal, the mission of what I'mtrying to do with Pathways is to help
(34:21):
business leaders recover the life that theysacrifice in pursuit of their career. And
for me, Pathways was just likeit was just a natural progression because it's
everything I love about what I've done. I take photos of Pathways. They
catch my eye when I'm out innature and I see something. It's just
it's just a thing for me.So it just fit together very well.
(34:44):
And when I start thinking about italong those lines on that hike in Canada,
I realized my intention in what I'mdoing here is to help you and
your business get to where you wantto go from where you are now and
help you find a pathway to dothat. That's awesome, Thank you.
There is contact information. There iscontact information for John. We'll give you
(35:04):
a chance to reach out to him. You begin to make changes, you
begin to identify the problem. Andwhat I think is really cool about this
book is that, as I saidearlier, it's not a glorification of the
of the junk. It's really aguide to help others identify what their problems
are and make some changes. Soyou start with I'm gonna point we've got
(35:24):
several things to go through, andI'll just kind of drop a thought and
you go ahead. How you talkabout how to identify the problem? How
do you help people identify the problem? First of all, I want to
say that you're absolutely right. Thewhole purpose of that book is too is
not to glorify the bad things it'stoo. It's to I tell my story
(35:47):
to help other people try to identifythemselves within it so that they can they
can feel more comfortable owning whatever itis that they're that they're going through.
So to help them to identify whatthe what the problem really is something that
we do in the workshops and somethingI do one on one when I'm working
with people. But the truth ofthe matter is that you know, you
(36:10):
know, they know, we allknow what is really holding us back.
We know what that thing is.Either people have said something to us about
it, We've paid prices for it, you know, like me with the
DUI, Like I knew what theproblem was. You know, my ex
wife, she would complain about it, so I knew what the problem was.
We just had this clever way oftelling ourselves it's not really a problem.
(36:30):
So really, the process of helpingsomebody to find out what their actual
problem is is when I'm doing apresentation and I'm talking about it and I'm
sharing this story and there and they'rethey're in it and they're thinking about their
own life, it's what are youthinking about right now? What's in your
head right now? And that's thething, And then you dig a little
(36:52):
bit deeper in there, because there'salways something a little bit more underneath that.
But that first thought that you have, that that thing that you that
you instant want to run away from, that's the thing that you need to
focus on. And then you talkabout how to identify how life could be
without that particular crutch. That's kindof cool. God, I love that
part. It's it's like, thenumber of times that I encounter the efficacy
(37:16):
of this part of this thing isunfathomable. Literally just encountered it very recently.
And so the whole idea behind that'sso there's two steps that are kind
of similar. The first one ishow much worse could your life get if
you don't get to handle on this? And the second part of that,
(37:36):
the very next follow up part ofit, is how much better could your
life get if you do get ahandle on this. And it's the idea
there is to create polarity, youknow, to pull you toward this better
life and away from this worse lifeby getting super super clear on the reality.
Because the truth is that, especiallywith our lives the way that they
(37:58):
are these days, and how distractand busy we are, it's so easy
to to just to just write itoff quickly, oh yeah, well,
you know that sucks. I shouldn'tbe doing that anymore, and just leave
it there, and you're not goingto change anything with that kind of attitude.
But if you can get really,really clear and honest with yourself about
just how just how much worse thingscould get for you if you don't fix
(38:20):
this, but then also how muchbetter your life could get. It gives
you something to push against, andit also gives you something to reach out
for, you know, and Ithink that I know that when you are
going through habit change and it's extremelydifficult to not go back to where you
were, those moments that you canthose those those glimpses of a life without
(38:45):
this thing are what you can holdon to for hope when those moments are
hard. So I love that part. Well, what's cool to me too,
is you help people figure out whythey would want to change for themselves,
not because you or somebody else istrying to tell them to do it
right. People change for their ownreasons, and that's that's why I think
that's really powerful. Then you helppeople identify why that negative behavior has continued,
(39:12):
you know, sort of the rootcause M Yeah, that's that's critical.
That's like what I was saying before. You know, you can take
away the substance all you want,and you're likely just going to find something
else to get addicted to. It'snot until you uncover the reason why you
turned to that substance in the firstplace, that you're going to actually ever
(39:35):
really be free from it. Otherwiseyou just kind of you're always living your
life running. And you know,something that was really powerful for me along
this journey was, you know,I went through AA and I had quit
drinking for like, I don't know, three months or so before I step
putting an AA room. I didn'tneed AA to stop drinking. Maybe it
was even it was six months.Actually I didn't need AA to keep me
(39:57):
from drinking. And that's just me, not you know, yeah, not
just crediting the system at all.I didn't need it. What I did
need it for was to figure outwhy. And once I did figure it
out why, it was like thebattle was over. Up until that moment,
I felt like I was always Ialways had to like stay away from
(40:17):
it, like no, like thereI can't even be around that, you
know, Like, But once Iunderstood why I went that way and why
I adopted this behavior in the firstplace, and I healed those wounds.
I say something in the in thebook that like once there's when there's no
more war to fight, there's noneed for weapons. Yeah, I saw
that. Yeah, you know,you just put them down, put down
(40:39):
the weapons, invite the monsters out. You know, you're not trying to
beat them back into the shadows anymore. You know, you invite them out,
bring them out into the light,see them for what they are,
make peace with it, except allthose parts about yourself, and once there's
no no monster to be afraid ofanymore than you know. That's powerful,
thank you. Right Next, howto find the strength This is to me
(41:02):
really important. How to find thestrength to make that decision that that part
comes in the sequential order of thingspurposefully, because it's like everything that we
talk about up until that point ismeant to make you really feel what you're
(41:27):
what you're going through. And ifI could have it my way, like
if I was if I if Icould do it exactly the way I wanted
to do it, I would createlike this like simulated life for you to
experience with like a three D headseton or whatever virtual reality headset on,
where you can literally feel and experiencewhat this is going to be. You
can experience your rock bottom in everyvisceral way possible. So yeah, right,
(41:53):
wouldn't that be cool? Yeah?So, if I could if I
could have my way, I woulddo that. Maybe one day I will,
I don't know, figure that outsomehow so that you can really feel
it. But for now, thebest thing that you can do, the
best thing I can think of todo, is to really dig in deep
and get some substance to that.So all those questions that come before that
are intended to really force you toget that substance, so that by the
(42:15):
time you get to the point whereit's time to make a decision, there's
not really a decision to be madeanymore. It's going to be so obvious
that if you don't make this decision, you are literally choosing a life that
is not going to serve you inany kind of good way. So that's
(42:36):
really the biggest part of it.And then if you can't, if even
that's not enough, honestly, andI'm just it's just the truth in my
own experience and the experience of witnessingother people, you just playing not ready
yet and you have to hurt more. And that sucks, but it's true.
And I think if most people,if they're willing to be honest with
themselves and look at their own lives, they'll be able to look at many
(43:00):
many, many times before they finallydid quit something, before they finally lost
the weight, before they finally quitdrinking, before they finally decided to start
reading more. Whatever the thing is, there were many times before then that
they knew they should have done it, but they didn't do it until the
point when it hurt them enough tosay never again. So, if you're
(43:21):
not ready to make the change yetafter going through all of that stuff,
you just need to hurt someone andthen you'll be there. That is right.
I think you're right there, rightright. But then you also have
the wisdom to put to suggest asupport team. Yes, what's your advice
for putting together a support team?That's critical and that's like something that's that's
(43:45):
a big function of AA, youknow, for people to be there and
support you along your journey to sobriety. And so you know, you can
use that as as a support team. You can use friends and family.
But I think the important thing thatyou have to pay attention to is who
it is that you are enrolling tobe a part of your support team to
(44:05):
make sure that they are going tohold you accountable and be honest with you
when when they see that you're you'reyou know, messing up and not doing
not live in the way that yousaid that you want to live, but
then also that they are living ina way that that that you aspire to
or admire and some kind of shouldbe somebody that is at a place that
(44:30):
you want to get to, sothat when you interact with them, they
can see how they can help you, and you can see how you want
to get to where they're at.But the most important thing is that we
can't do this alone. You know, we we we can't. We're not
meant to do much of anything alonelong term. You know. We're tribal
(44:52):
people, you know, we're meantto be in hurts, you know,
and stuff and uh, and wehave some things that we have to do
on our own. And it's avery healthy thing to be able to be
alone. But there's some things thatyou meet other people for and you should
have other people for, and thisis definitely one of them. There's a
lot of work that needs to bedone introspectively, you know. But times
when you're feeling weak, or you'refeeling stressed or like you need a hand,
(45:15):
that's when these people that you've chosenahead of time are the ones that
you can reach out to and say, hey, man, I'm not doing
well. You said you're going tobe there for me. And it's so
important with so many of these thingsthat the support team, the boundaries,
the substitutions, you have to createthese things ahead of time when you're in
a good mindset, right after itmade the decision that yes, I'm going
(45:37):
to make sures you're feeling all goodbecause we all know life is life,
and there's going to come a timewhen you're not feeling good sooner than later,
and it's going to test you.It's going to make you wonder can
I stick to this? And inthose moments of weakness is when you are
tent, when you're going to betempted to go back to the path of
least resistance for relief and for yourbrain. That's going to be alcohol,
(46:00):
drugs, TV, Facebook or whateverthe thing is to take your mind away
from what hurts. But if you'vedone the work ahead of time and you've
said when this happens, I'm goingto do this instead, you at least
have a chance because you've made aplan for what you're going to do when
that happens. And then even ifyou do fail. I just went through
(46:20):
this and my advice was, it'snot a failure, it's just a data
point. People look at setbacks andgoing out and lapses and whatever as like
well clock restarts, right, YeahI failed, and no you didn't know
you didn't You've You've got another datapoint that shows you that when I'm in
these circumstances, when I'm feeling thisway, here's what I do. Now
(46:45):
you can create more substitutions and boundariesaround that. Well. Interesting, we
have about a minute talk about somehealthy substitutions and boundaries. I mean,
it depends on what your thing is, you know, like if you if
it's a if it's a a dietthing, you know, like I had
that too, I incredibly unhealthy.So instead of having like a bag of
(47:06):
candy on my toolbox at work,I would have a bag of almonds or
something to that effects. Or ifit's if it's a sedentary lifestyle, then
your substitution is you know, disconnectto deactivate your your you know, Facebook,
Netflix or whatever, whatever the thingis. It's about identifying the things
(47:27):
that are are going to be aproblem for you ahead of time and creating
a plan to not have them becomethat problem for you. So for me,
it was like I wouldn't hang outwith certain people for a while while
I was, you know, learningto get sober. I wouldn't go to
certain places because it's just going tobe an unnecessary trigger for me. Think
(47:50):
about the opposite right of what yourthing is, and let that be the
thing. You go to. Somethinghealthy. You know what's healthy. We
all know what's healthy. You knowyou don't need to be hold that.
This is very good. Last question, who? And you can look at
this from two perspectives, one perspectiveor the or the other or both.
Who would the listening and viewing audiencesshould reach out to you? And why?
(48:14):
Who would the who? Who inthese listening and viewing audiences should reach
out to you? And why?Oh? Gotcha? So, like I
guess who who is a good fitfor for Pathways if they want to?
Right? Okay? Well, likeI said before, the mission statement of
Pathways is to help business leaders recoverthe life that they sacrifice in pursuit of
(48:34):
their career. So the so theperson who I'm who my particular skill set
and experiences is most set up tohelp are business owners business leaders who've given
everything that they've got to create thisbusiness or this this this career that they
are succeeding in and it's doing wellor or to some degree, you know,
(48:57):
it's it's it's it's okay, butthey've recognize that they've lost quality of
life and not happy in this areaand not happy in that area. Because
what I do is a two prongedapproach. There's the personal development side and
the professional development side. So Iwork with you as an individual to help
you to overcome whatever your self limitingbeliefs are, your habits, your behaviors,
all these things that are holding youback from being the most effective person
(49:20):
in your personal life and your professionallife. But then I also have a
whole other side of the business thatworks on the business itself, how to
be more profitable, less costly,more effective, more valuable if you ever
want to sell it one day,that type of thing. So you work
on both of those separately, andthen when they come together in the business,
they can get to where they wantto go. So the right person
for me is somebody who is abusiness leader, has given a lot to
(49:44):
where they're at and they want toget further. They have goals of where
they want to reach and they're havinga hard time reaching those because of personal
and professional reasons. Cool. You'veseen the contact information, John, We
are out of time, sadly,this has been really cool. The book
is Life Without Crutches, available onAmazon. John Covenants is the author.
(50:04):
He's a lot more than the book, but get the book and thank you
for being here. Really appreciate it. Thanks man, appreciate you, and
thank you everybody for watching and listening. This is a show about business and
business challenges, life challenges too.If you've got concerns about the growth of
your company, feel free to reachout to me on Facebook or LinkedIn at
Winning Business Radio. You can dropme a note, Bobby. The easiest
email for now is Kevin at WinningBusinessradio dot com. Our companies Winning Incorporated.
(50:30):
We're part of Sandler Training. Wedeveloped sales teams into high achievers and
sales leaders into true coaches and mentors. We're not right for everybody, but
maybe we should have a conversation.Thank you, producer to producer and engineer
one for another job well done.Thank you one. Be sure to join
us next week that's Monday, Aprileighth. We'll do it again with another
interesting guest. Until then, thisis Kevin Helenan you've been listening to Winning
(50:54):
Business Radio with your host, KevinHelena. If you missed any part of
this episode, the podcast is availableon Talk for Podcasting and iHeartRadio. For
more information and questions, go toWinning Business Radio dot com or check us
out on social media. Tune inagain next week and every Monday at four
pm Eastern Time to listen live toWinning Business Radio on W four CY Radio
(51:19):
w four cy dot com. Untilthen, let's succeed where others have failed
and win in business with Kevin Haleananand Winning Business Radio
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