August 19, 2025 • 30 mins
Work from Anywhere (WFA) isn’t a trend—it’s a transformational shift. In this episode, Harvard Business School professor Prithwiraj Choudhury unpacks how WFA boosts access to top talent, improves productivity, and fosters innovation. When location is no longer a barrier, companies win by hiring from anywhere and workers thrive with flexibility. Learn why WFA, done right, is a triple win—for companies, workers, and communities.
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Working on Purpose is broadcast live Tuesdays at 6PM ET and Music on W4CY Radio (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Working on Purpose is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
Working on Purpose Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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(00:20):
choosing W FOURCY Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
What's working on Purpose? Anyway? Each week we ponder the
answer to this question. People ache for meaning and purpose
at work, to contribute their talents passionately and know their
lives really matter. They crave being part of an organization
that inspires them and helps them grow into realizing their
highest potential. Business can be such a force for good
in the world, elevating humanity. In our program, we provide
(00:51):
guidance and inspiration to help usher in this world we
all want working on Purpose. Now here's your host, doctor
Elise Cortes.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Welcome back to the Working and Purpose Program, which has
been brought to you with passion and pride since February
of twenty fifteen. Thanks for tuning in this week. Great
to have you. I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortes. If
we've not met before and you don't know me, I'm
a workforce advisor, organizational psychologist, management consultant, logo therapist, speaker
and author. My team and I at Gustri and I
help companies to enliven and fortify their operations by building
(01:25):
a dynamic, high performance culture, inspirational leadership, and nurturing managers
activated by meaning and purpose. Many organizations are not aware
of just how critical it is to invest in developing
their leaders and managers not just for their own effectiveness,
but also to avoid burnout and keep them fulfilled. And
you do know that inspired employees outperform their satisfied peers
by factor of two point twenty five to one. In
(01:47):
other words, inspiration is good for the bottom line. You
can learn more about us and how we can work
together at Gusto dashnow dot com or my personal website
at Leiscortes dot com. Getting into today's program, we have
with us doctor Prithburra Chowdhry, a globally recognized expert on
the future of work, serving on the faculties at Wharton
and Harvard Business School for over a decade. He studies
(02:08):
how technology is shifting wherever we work and how we work.
He has pioneered research on the change in geography of
work and how work from anywhere affects workers, organizations, communities,
and smaller towns. He also studies the impact of AI
and organizations and how AI and automation can help both
desk workers and desk desk list workers work from anywhere.
(02:32):
His book, The World Is Your Office, How Work from
Anywhere Boosts talent, productivity, and innovation, which we're talking about today,
was published by Harvard Business Press in April twenty twenty
five and became a national bestseller in the United States.
He joined us today from Boston, where he has been residing.
He'll soon be relocating to London, where I have to
come and see him. Raj, Welcome to Working on Purpose.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
It's wonderful to have you. And when I first all
your book and I reached out to you, I said,
you've got to come on and talk to me about this,
because you know, as somebody who is helping organizations steward
their culture, their leadership, and being in the middle of
all these conversations about this forced return to office, I
was like, I've got to hear what this man has
to say. So thank you very much for coming on.
(03:19):
I devoured your book. We have a shorter episode and
I want to get through as many topics as we
possibly can. I just want to start with the promise
of your book, Raj, and as somebody who would love
I live in Dallas, I would love to work from
Greece and Italy and other places and such, I want
to just start with this idea of the war. You know,
(03:40):
you're moving past the idea of work from anywhere, not
just a workforce perk, but as a transformational shift. Can
we start with that idea?
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Sure? Absolutely so. I'd like I described in the book.
Work from anywhere is the idea that I've been working
on for over it, you know, many many years now
close to a decade. And work from anywhere is not
the same as work from home. So work from anywhere,
as I say this twice and every session that I attend,
(04:10):
work from anywhere is not the same as work from home.
Work from anywhere is about having the freedom to choose
where to live. So which city with state, which region,
sometimes even which country, and then once you've chosen that location,
you could be working from home, you could be working
from a co working space, you could be working from
(04:32):
a small satellite office of the company. All of that
is worked from anywhere. And as I discussed in the book,
this is a win win. It's good for the worker,
it's good for the organization, and now we know enough
about how to work from anywhere, we also have a
solid repertoire of best practices.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
You know, when the COVID nineteen pendem was going down,
I was also getting very interested in how people were
going inward, looking at what do they want from their
lives and their work, And I wrote about that too
in a couple of my books, and I became very
fascinated with the connection of people's work to themselves in
their lives. Where did you start to get fascinated with
(05:12):
this idea of working from anywhere?
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Yeah, So I've been a scholar of geography, so I've
studied this question about how do firms access talent that's
living far away, distant talent. And the premise there was that,
you know, we know that talent is everywhere, but opportunities
are not and so the dominant way firms have managed
(05:37):
to access distant talent is by forcing talent to relocate.
You pack your bags and you move from the West
coast to the East coast, or from China to the US,
or from Australia to India or whatnot. And that's worked
for firms for many, many, many years, but it has
also created lots of problems for both companies and workers.
(06:02):
Think about regulation, think about licensing, occupational licensing things, think
about visas. Think about leaving your parents back home and
moving seven thousand miles and you can't now take care
of them. And so, as I was studying migration and
documenting very meticulously both the benefits of migration, I also
(06:25):
realized that migration and relocation has lots of challenges. And
about twenty fifteen I then started thinking, why is there
not an alternate model instead of having people move? Why
can't companies let the work move to places that people
want to live in? And I call that work from anywhere.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
It's just yummy, Raj, It's just yummy. Okay. I know
you talk about how this idea is really something that
leaders need to embrace. So let's maybe situate next some
of the benefits for companies. As I say, I'm just
fascinating with these mandates of work, you know, return forced
one hundred percent work from the office that I see
large organizations trying to erect. And so you talk about,
(07:06):
of course this notion that talent without borders, and so
now organizations have the opportunity to it to access all
kinds of talent they wouldn't otherwise have any access to.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
Yes, and you've already stated the main reason. So the
main reason to embrace work from anywhere as a leader
is work from anywhere allows companies to hire from anywhere,
So you dramatically expand your labor market access. So now
you can even though you're in the East Coast, you
can hire from the West Coast. You can hire from
(07:39):
the Heartland, you can hire from Canada, you can hire
from Mexico. You can even go and hire from a
different continent if you want to do that. There are
other and that kind of hiring does two things. It
expands the talent pool. It gives you access to more
diverse talent, So diversity based on gender, based on ethnicity,
(08:00):
based on geographic region. And we know that diverse talent
leads to better innovation. I think that's been established in
the research community for decades now. The second thing that
Work from Anywhere does is it converts real estate cost
into a variable cost. So now you don't have to
(08:22):
commit to a thirty year lease or building a huge
building that's fifty percent occupied all the time. Now for
Work from Anywhere, teams they need to meet. That's very,
very important, and in the book I stress that a
lot that intentional in person is very important. But you
can now rent the real estate when you need it.
(08:42):
You can hire a coworking space when the teams want
to meet. So you're converting real estate into a utility,
just like electricity or water, and that saves a lot
of money for companies if it's done well. And they
could also be some productivity benefits, which I document in
both my research and the book. But again to summarize,
the main reason is accessing talent beyond one single geographic location.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
I'm convinced, of course. However, I do know that chief
financial officers and chief human resource officers can be really
skeptical in part because they worry about managing costs or
especially losing connection to workers. Now I know, you go
into detail about how to address that. But because people
haven't read the book yet like I have, can you
say a bit about how your research overcomes the turnover
(09:31):
and organizational performance issues.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
So, first of all, work from anywhere, as I've shown
in my research, leads to luring attrition because now that
you are allowing people to live, they want to live.
They are more happier employees, the work life balance is
much better, and especially for women, this is the game changer.
(09:54):
So I'll just mentioned a couple of things. So we
know for at least three decades now in the search
community that in dual career couples, the woman disproportionately praise
pays a price because of geography, and it doesn't have
to be a new job. So imagine a woman working
in a large company in Boston if the next promotion
(10:16):
means that she has to move to San Francisco. But
the research shows is that in many cases the person
is not able to move because the partner or sometimes
even the kids don't want to move. So geography becomes
a spanner in the wheel in career progression. Work from
Anywhere solves that problem. Now both men and women can
(10:36):
take a promotion without moving, without relocating. That's the first part.
Think about military spouses they've had no career continuity whatsoever,
or the spouses of diplomats, same problem. Work from Anywhere
solves that problem. And what my research shows is that
these groups of workers become incredibly low and stay longer
(11:01):
and work harder and a're more productive under a work
from Anywhere scenario. And then in the book and I
can go deeper, alis like there are many ways to
build connection, but the most important idea is to bring
people together at some frequency that works best for the team.
So for some teams, it could be weekly meetings. For
some teams, it could be monthly meetings. For other teams
(11:24):
could it could even mean a quarterly retreat. But when
the team is together, the only thing that people are
doing is socializing. So no one is sitting in the
corridor wearing headphones getting on zoom, no one is sitting
in the corner office working on Excel. For that week
or those three four days, you are spending it with
(11:46):
the team in a very deep, meaningful way. And that's
the best way to build connection.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
I believe, Oh yeah, quality experiences totally and I really
appreciate this is why I get so excited about your
research and your work, Raj, is that you're giving you
your really extending the opportunity for more humans across the
planet to participate in the world of work that in
a way that works on their terms, and therefore you're
actually helping people to realize more of their potential. And
I could get behind that every day all day long. Okay,
(12:15):
So speaking of that, we got to talk next about
some of the ways that working from home helps human
and social impact really really interesting things. You already talked
a bit about how it helps empower people and families
to stay together and to be able to have more
of what they want from their respective lives, but then
you also talk about rebalancing economic geography, and I was
really interested. You do talk about the research that Suhani
(12:39):
Jalada and also Lisa Hoe have been doing which has
really speaking to elevating employment opportunities for women in countries
and communities where the social and religious norms are stacked
against them. So working from home opens that for them,
and I think that's really compelling. So if we could
talk a little bit about the human and social impact
and working from home affords.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
Yeah, sure, But first of all, you know that study
is a work from home study, which I respect my
book in my research mostly is about work from anywhere.
It's about choosing the geography. The same principles apply. So
what they find in their research is in certain communities. So,
first of all, their main motivation is that in India,
it is really surprising that a pretty progressive country with
(13:24):
a very vibrant democracy has a really a bimissile female
labor rate participation, So it's really really low. And one
of the reasons they argue it's low is that in
many communities in India, women are not expected to socially
because of the family norms, step out and be working.
(13:48):
And so now what this remote work option does is
it alleviates this problem. And what they find fascinatingly is
that in many cases, the family doesn't even know the
woman is working. I think they're playing some sort of
you know, working on some app on their phone, right,
But the fact that they are now participating in some
(14:08):
economic activity for which they're getting paid, it's something that
you know, it's opening up a new whole world for
these women. Yeah, and so I think and I've seen
replications of this study in Africa. Now the same issue there.
But you know, just on that theme, the one thing
we didn't talk about is people with neurodiverse conditions or disabilities, right,
(14:32):
And you know, the research has shown that these people
don't want to live in a bustling city and commute
every day. They would much prefer live in a smaller
town where they have access to their amenities. Work from
Anywhere opens up the door of employment to them. So
I can keep going on and on and on about
how this is inclusive and how it allows multiple people
(14:53):
to participate in the labor force.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Love your passion. Let's grab a quick break on that note.
I'm your host doctor really scored. Has we've been on
the air where doctor Perthraraj Childry. He goes by Raj, who,
while serving on the faculties of Wharton and Harvard Business
Schools for over a decade, has been studying how technology
is shifting where we work and how we work, as
well as the impact of AI on organizations and how
(15:16):
a on automation can help both desk workers and desk
list workers work from anywhere. We've been talking so far
about the idea behind work from how working from anywhere
and also its benefits to companies as well as its
impact on families and socially as well. After the break,
we're going to talk about really how leaders can embrace
implementation in the future of work. We'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Doctor Release Courts has as a management consultant specializing in
meaning and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author, she helps
companies visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose
inspired leadership and meaning infuse cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance,
and commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to
invite Elise to speak to your organization, please visit her
(16:14):
at elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get
your employees working on purpose. This is working on Purpose
with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today or
to open a conversation with Elise, send an email to
Alise A Lisee at eliscortes dot com. Now back to
(16:38):
working on Purpose.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Thanks for stating with us, and welcome back to working
on Purpose. I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortes, as I
also am dedicated to help them create a world where
organizations thrive because they're people thrive. They're led by inspirational
leaders that help them and find them, contribute their greatness,
and we do business a better the world. I keep
researching and writing my own books, so one of my
latest came out. It's called The Great Revitalization. How activating
meaning and purpose can radically in life in your business.
(17:07):
I wrote to help leaders better understand the lay of
today's discerning and diverse workforce and what they can do
to provide something that will make them want to come
to work for them, and then provide twenty two best
projects to equip you to be able to inculcate that.
You can find my books on Amazon or my personal
site at least Cortes dot com if you are now
just joining us. My guest is Prith Barrage Chowdri He's
(17:28):
the author of the World is Your Office How work
from anywhere boost talent, productivity and innovation. So I want
to talk next here if we can raj about how
we can implement this and how leaders can embrace it,
because I do know there are fears out there, and
we certainly know right out of the gate we do
need some leaders to be able to embrace trust and
(17:49):
allow for and unleash the autonomy. And I know that
that is a major issue for many organizations. And so
can we talk a little bit about what you recommend
for leaders to either develop in terms of their competencies
their behaviors to be able to embrace this idea, especially
around trust and autonomy.
Speaker 4 (18:06):
Yes, I'll just summarize, you know, and then the book
gives a chapter by chapter detail on all of us.
So the first thing that you know I write about
in the book is that this cannot be a one
size fits all for the whole company. The unit of
analysis should not be the company and shouldn't be the
person either. The right unit of analysis is the team.
(18:29):
So the team should have freedom to choose what I
call among three forms of hybrid. So what I try
to do in the book is expand our imagination about
what hybrid is. What most people call hybrid, I call
it weekly hybrid, where the team is meeting every week,
so the frequency of meeting is weekly. In the book,
(18:51):
I write about two other forms of hybrid, which I
call monthly hybrid and quarterly hybrid. So in a monthly
hybrid model, the team working from anywhere for three weeks
every month, and for one week they're coming together for
three or four days. So imagine living in Connecticut for
the whole month, and then you are taking the train
(19:12):
or driving down to New York City to meet the
team in the fourth week every month for three days,
and then you get back to your home in Connecticut.
So that's monthly hybrid. And the European Central Bank, one
of the largest federal banks in the world, is now
practicing monthly hybrid. They let their bankers live anywhere in
the EU for about one hundred ten days a year,
(19:34):
and the condition is that you have to meet your
team once every month for a few days. The other
form is the quarterly hybrid model, where now you're living
anywhere in the country or sometimes even anywhere in the world,
and you are coming together once a quarter for a retreat.
And what I do in the book is I say,
(19:55):
once the team has chosen whether to practice weekly, month
or quarterly hybrid, there are a set of management practices
that you need to master, so I can go through
all of them. But if you think about a weekly team,
the most important practice is scheduling. Because when a company
says come to the office three days or two days,
(20:18):
if part of the team is coming Monday Tuesday and
part of the team is coming Thursday Friday. Then the
whole team is never together. You need to get your
schedules aligned. And similarly for monthly and quarterly hybrid you
need to do some other management practices Differently. You have
to codify knowledge, you have to participate in virtual water coolers,
(20:39):
you have to get the off site planned really really well.
So in the book, I say the first choice is
choose among the three hybrid models, and based on that
recipe book I layout. Then you have to you know
what management practices you need to master as a team.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
How would you be able to start to address I've
seen this all the time, Raj, this idea of managing
my present smith. If I see you, I think you
might be working instead of really looking at the output
of productivity or what is it that actually want you
to do? And I do know that under that very
much is a mistrust. I do not believe my people
are working. How can leaders start to move away from
(21:18):
that anchored What do I want to say, chain around
at the ankle?
Speaker 4 (21:23):
Yeah, So the two things to be done. The mechanical
thing to do, which I write about in the book,
is to start measuring performance based on quality of work
and not how many hours you worked, how many days
you worked, how many times the manager sees your face.
That's the mechanical thing to do, and it's a tough
thing to do, but it's very doable. And with one company.
(21:44):
What I'm doing right now is I'm going by role,
task by task and revisiting all the KPIs for how
people are getting their performance rating. But the more fundamental,
deeper issue, I think what you're hinting at, Alice is
something I completely agree that there is a fundamental lack
of trust among some managers, I wouldn't say everyone, and
(22:05):
a certain graphic of managers in my opinion, where they
think that if people are working remotely, they are shirking.
My response to that is you are confounding your lack
of trust with remote work. If a person is a shirker,
trust me, that person will also shirk in the office.
They will appear to be busy and they'll have other
(22:28):
things open on the computer. So it's a hiring problem
or a trust issue that you're confounding as remote work.
So if you have hired the right person who has
the right amount of intrinsic motivation, where the fit between
the person and the job is really good and the
person is being measured on quality of work, then there's
(22:48):
no reason for the person to shirk when you can
see them. And I think there's a certain generation of
manager that still doesn't get it, but they will be
forced to adapt because the labor market is cruel. In
today's labor market, if you're not offering flexible positions, you
will not attract a diverse workforce and your board will
(23:09):
slam you at one point. Seeing what's going.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
On, I had Miles Everson on earlier on and he
was talking about he gave a quote from the pricewaterhouse
chairman that said, the war for talent is over talent one. Okay,
so let's talk. Let's finish up our conversation here by
talking about really the future of work. One of the
things that's so exciting for me to get to talk
with and connect with guests like you, Raj, is getting
(23:33):
into tap to your expertise and just really getting to
extend what I know and what I practice today. So
I want to ask you a couple of things about
where all of this is going. So I first want
to ask because people are wondering, well, could work from
anywhere work for us? What about our industry? So are
there certain kinds of industries is just limited to knowledge
work that works for work from anywhere?
Speaker 4 (23:56):
No, so that used to be the case, but it's changing.
So in the book I talk about this idea of
digital twins, and digital twins is very much a reality today,
unlike the metaverse. So digital twin is a combination of sensors,
AI and automation where you can create a real time
model of a hospital ward or a piece of farmland,
(24:20):
or a factory making detergents, or a power generation utility
or an offshore oil rig on your computer. And in
the book I have examples about a Unilever factory in
Brazil making detergents and a Turkish power generation company that
runs twenty four power plants in Turkey about how implementing
(24:44):
a digital twin allowed blue collar workers to work from anywhere.
And this is happening in the New York hospitals now
with their electronic ICO the eICU. Not every doctorate nurses
in the hospital anymore. Many doctors and nurses are far
away working just on a computer, sitting on a cafe
(25:06):
or sitting at home, monitoring patients remotely. So I think
this is already happening, and my guess is this will
unleash the next wave of work from anywhere among doctors
and nurses and turbine engineers and people who traditionally worked
on site.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
That is so exciting, Raj, so so exciting. Okay, now
just for grins and giggles, that's what's happening today already
and in the near future. Can you bring us forward, say,
three to five years in the future. What are we
doing in three to five years in terms of work?
Speaker 4 (25:38):
Yeah, So I think the thing that I'm studying right
now is how gen Ai is creating a special kind
of bot, which is personal bot. So this is something
that I'm studying right now. So personal bot is a
bot for one person. It's a bot for Elise or
a bot for Raj that can answer questions the way
(25:58):
Elise or Raj would answer. So if you had my
bod instead of me on the podcast, and if the
bot was well trained, it could do the same job
that I'm doing right now, which I think it could
because I've done a bunch of these podcasts, So you
could take the text of every time I've spoken and
train a bot to answer questions just like I would.
(26:18):
And so in a study we actually did a bot
for a CEO, the CEO of Zapier Weight Foster and
employees at Zapier asked questions and they didn't know whether
the answer came from the human weight or the bot weight,
and they couldn't tell. One of the main findings of
the study is the bot passed the Turing test. So
(26:40):
my prediction is in five years, almost all of us,
just like we have email, we'll have personal bots and
they will be answering part of our communication, not all
of it. But that will unleash a third wave of
work from anywhere because for the first time in history,
we are separating human capital from the humane and the
(27:01):
bots don't need work life balance. The bot can be
scaled in parallel. The bots can be answering Q and
A when I'm flying on a plane or when I'm sleeping,
so time zones become less of an issue. So I
think all of this comes with a lot of cautions.
Read my latest study on my website for all the
cautions on when the bot doesn't work and in what ways.
(27:26):
But I think in five years that'll be a distinct possibility.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
Now that is very alluring. Okay, so I just have
two more questions. One is the last real question, and
then I'll let you finish. Since you know this show
is really about activating and unleashing human potential, It's about
working for purpose with meaning, etc. I want to give
our listeners of viewers who haven't yet read your book
the opportunity to glance into just really how leaders can
(27:51):
embrace the work from anywhere mentality not to be more efficient,
but also to build more purposeful, humane, and future ready organizations.
Let's leave them with that possibility. What could that look
like for leaders?
Speaker 4 (28:03):
Yes, I'll end by saying the same thing I said
at the start that what's driven all of my research
over the past fifteen years actually is that I believe
that talent is everywhere, opportunities are not, and geography has
been one of the constraints for many people. So if
you grew up in Silicon Valley, you have a different
(28:24):
set of opportunities than if you grew up in a
small rural city in the middle of the country. And
that should not be the case. You should not have
to leave your community and your parents and your church
and whatever is close to you just for work. So
I think we should be allowed to exercise our purpose
(28:44):
and our talents wherever we live, without moving our life
somewhere else if we don't want to. And that is
what worked from anywhere is.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
I am so grateful to know you, Raj, that you
said yes. Want to reach out to you saying I
want you to come on my podcast and talk about this.
I'm great for the work that you're doing, the research
that you're doing. You're helping us all extend our potential
and our possibility. Grateful to know you. Thank you for
coming on working on purpose.
Speaker 4 (29:09):
Thank you Elise, and I'll just share one last update.
As of yesterday, I have a new job. I joined
the London School of Economics as a full professor.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
Oh that's exciting. Thank you for telling me. But I
do want to give you the chance. Sorry, I got
so excited about having you on. Would you like to
leave our listeners and viewers with any other thoughts today?
Speaker 4 (29:26):
No? So I think you know you can find me
on LinkedIn. Would love to hear what you think and
what are you working on.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
Definitely I'm going to share your that detail and your
website as well here as I close. Thank you again, Raj,
Thank you You're welcome listeners and viewers. I do believe
you're going to want to connect with Prith Barrage Chowdhry
as I have. You can find him very handily on LinkedIn.
He's extremely responsive. You can also go to his own
personal website, which is his name. Let me spell it
(29:52):
for you. So first it's said Prith Barrage Chowdery, So
the way you spell that is pr you I R
A J and then Chowdrey is c h o U
d h u r y Prithraraz Chowdhury dot com. See
you next week for another nourishing and inspiring episode on
Working on Purpose, and remember, work is one of the
(30:13):
best adventures and means of realizing our potential and making
the impact we crave and can give us the opportunity
to do business in a way that betters the world.
So let's work on Purpose.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
We hope you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure to
tune into Working on Purpose featuring your host, doctor Elise Cortes,
each week on W four CY. Together we'll create a
world where business operates conscientiously. Leadership inspires and passion performance
and employees are fulfilled in work that provides the meaning
and purpose they crave. See you there. Let's work on purpose.
The topics and opinions express in the following show are
solely those of the hosts and their guests and not
those of W FOURCY Radio. It's employees are affiliates. We
make no recommendations or endorsements for radio show programs, services,
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(00:20):
choosing W FOURCY Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
What's working on Purpose? Anyway? Each week we ponder the
answer to this question. People ache for meaning and purpose
at work, to contribute their talents passionately and know their
lives really matter. They crave being part of an organization
that inspires them and helps them grow into realizing their
highest potential. Business can be such a force for good
in the world, elevating humanity. In our program, we provide
(00:51):
guidance and inspiration to help usher in this world we
all want working on Purpose. Now here's your host, doctor
Elise Cortes.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Welcome back to the Working and Purpose Program, which has
been brought to you with passion and pride since February
of twenty fifteen. Thanks for tuning in this week. Great
to have you. I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortes. If
we've not met before and you don't know me, I'm
a workforce advisor, organizational psychologist, management consultant, logo therapist, speaker
and author. My team and I at Gustri and I
help companies to enliven and fortify their operations by building
(01:25):
a dynamic, high performance culture, inspirational leadership, and nurturing managers
activated by meaning and purpose. Many organizations are not aware
of just how critical it is to invest in developing
their leaders and managers not just for their own effectiveness,
but also to avoid burnout and keep them fulfilled. And
you do know that inspired employees outperform their satisfied peers
by factor of two point twenty five to one. In
(01:47):
other words, inspiration is good for the bottom line. You
can learn more about us and how we can work
together at Gusto dashnow dot com or my personal website
at Leiscortes dot com. Getting into today's program, we have
with us doctor Prithburra Chowdhry, a globally recognized expert on
the future of work, serving on the faculties at Wharton
and Harvard Business School for over a decade. He studies
(02:08):
how technology is shifting wherever we work and how we work.
He has pioneered research on the change in geography of
work and how work from anywhere affects workers, organizations, communities,
and smaller towns. He also studies the impact of AI
and organizations and how AI and automation can help both
desk workers and desk desk list workers work from anywhere.
(02:32):
His book, The World Is Your Office, How Work from
Anywhere Boosts talent, productivity, and innovation, which we're talking about today,
was published by Harvard Business Press in April twenty twenty
five and became a national bestseller in the United States.
He joined us today from Boston, where he has been residing.
He'll soon be relocating to London, where I have to
come and see him. Raj, Welcome to Working on Purpose.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
Thanks for having me.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
It's wonderful to have you. And when I first all
your book and I reached out to you, I said,
you've got to come on and talk to me about this,
because you know, as somebody who is helping organizations steward
their culture, their leadership, and being in the middle of
all these conversations about this forced return to office, I
was like, I've got to hear what this man has
to say. So thank you very much for coming on.
(03:19):
I devoured your book. We have a shorter episode and
I want to get through as many topics as we
possibly can. I just want to start with the promise
of your book, Raj, and as somebody who would love
I live in Dallas, I would love to work from
Greece and Italy and other places and such, I want
to just start with this idea of the war. You know,
(03:40):
you're moving past the idea of work from anywhere, not
just a workforce perk, but as a transformational shift. Can
we start with that idea?
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Sure? Absolutely so. I'd like I described in the book.
Work from anywhere is the idea that I've been working
on for over it, you know, many many years now
close to a decade. And work from anywhere is not
the same as work from home. So work from anywhere,
as I say this twice and every session that I attend,
(04:10):
work from anywhere is not the same as work from home.
Work from anywhere is about having the freedom to choose
where to live. So which city with state, which region,
sometimes even which country, and then once you've chosen that location,
you could be working from home, you could be working
from a co working space, you could be working from
(04:32):
a small satellite office of the company. All of that
is worked from anywhere. And as I discussed in the book,
this is a win win. It's good for the worker,
it's good for the organization, and now we know enough
about how to work from anywhere, we also have a
solid repertoire of best practices.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
You know, when the COVID nineteen pendem was going down,
I was also getting very interested in how people were
going inward, looking at what do they want from their
lives and their work, And I wrote about that too
in a couple of my books, and I became very
fascinated with the connection of people's work to themselves in
their lives. Where did you start to get fascinated with
(05:12):
this idea of working from anywhere?
Speaker 4 (05:15):
Yeah, So I've been a scholar of geography, so I've
studied this question about how do firms access talent that's
living far away, distant talent. And the premise there was that,
you know, we know that talent is everywhere, but opportunities
are not and so the dominant way firms have managed
(05:37):
to access distant talent is by forcing talent to relocate.
You pack your bags and you move from the West
coast to the East coast, or from China to the US,
or from Australia to India or whatnot. And that's worked
for firms for many, many, many years, but it has
also created lots of problems for both companies and workers.
(06:02):
Think about regulation, think about licensing, occupational licensing things, think
about visas. Think about leaving your parents back home and
moving seven thousand miles and you can't now take care
of them. And so, as I was studying migration and
documenting very meticulously both the benefits of migration, I also
(06:25):
realized that migration and relocation has lots of challenges. And
about twenty fifteen I then started thinking, why is there
not an alternate model instead of having people move? Why
can't companies let the work move to places that people
want to live in? And I call that work from anywhere.
Speaker 3 (06:45):
It's just yummy, Raj, It's just yummy. Okay. I know
you talk about how this idea is really something that
leaders need to embrace. So let's maybe situate next some
of the benefits for companies. As I say, I'm just
fascinating with these mandates of work, you know, return forced
one hundred percent work from the office that I see
large organizations trying to erect. And so you talk about,
(07:06):
of course this notion that talent without borders, and so
now organizations have the opportunity to it to access all
kinds of talent they wouldn't otherwise have any access to.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
Yes, and you've already stated the main reason. So the
main reason to embrace work from anywhere as a leader
is work from anywhere allows companies to hire from anywhere,
So you dramatically expand your labor market access. So now
you can even though you're in the East Coast, you
can hire from the West Coast. You can hire from
(07:39):
the Heartland, you can hire from Canada, you can hire
from Mexico. You can even go and hire from a
different continent if you want to do that. There are
other and that kind of hiring does two things. It
expands the talent pool. It gives you access to more
diverse talent, So diversity based on gender, based on ethnicity,
(08:00):
based on geographic region. And we know that diverse talent
leads to better innovation. I think that's been established in
the research community for decades now. The second thing that
Work from Anywhere does is it converts real estate cost
into a variable cost. So now you don't have to
(08:22):
commit to a thirty year lease or building a huge
building that's fifty percent occupied all the time. Now for
Work from Anywhere, teams they need to meet. That's very,
very important, and in the book I stress that a
lot that intentional in person is very important. But you
can now rent the real estate when you need it.
(08:42):
You can hire a coworking space when the teams want
to meet. So you're converting real estate into a utility,
just like electricity or water, and that saves a lot
of money for companies if it's done well. And they
could also be some productivity benefits, which I document in
both my research and the book. But again to summarize,
the main reason is accessing talent beyond one single geographic location.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
I'm convinced, of course. However, I do know that chief
financial officers and chief human resource officers can be really
skeptical in part because they worry about managing costs or
especially losing connection to workers. Now I know, you go
into detail about how to address that. But because people
haven't read the book yet like I have, can you
say a bit about how your research overcomes the turnover
(09:31):
and organizational performance issues.
Speaker 4 (09:34):
So, first of all, work from anywhere, as I've shown
in my research, leads to luring attrition because now that
you are allowing people to live, they want to live.
They are more happier employees, the work life balance is
much better, and especially for women, this is the game changer.
(09:54):
So I'll just mentioned a couple of things. So we
know for at least three decades now in the search
community that in dual career couples, the woman disproportionately praise
pays a price because of geography, and it doesn't have
to be a new job. So imagine a woman working
in a large company in Boston if the next promotion
(10:16):
means that she has to move to San Francisco. But
the research shows is that in many cases the person
is not able to move because the partner or sometimes
even the kids don't want to move. So geography becomes
a spanner in the wheel in career progression. Work from
Anywhere solves that problem. Now both men and women can
(10:36):
take a promotion without moving, without relocating. That's the first part.
Think about military spouses they've had no career continuity whatsoever,
or the spouses of diplomats, same problem. Work from Anywhere
solves that problem. And what my research shows is that
these groups of workers become incredibly low and stay longer
(11:01):
and work harder and a're more productive under a work
from Anywhere scenario. And then in the book and I
can go deeper, alis like there are many ways to
build connection, but the most important idea is to bring
people together at some frequency that works best for the team.
So for some teams, it could be weekly meetings. For
some teams, it could be monthly meetings. For other teams
(11:24):
could it could even mean a quarterly retreat. But when
the team is together, the only thing that people are
doing is socializing. So no one is sitting in the
corridor wearing headphones getting on zoom, no one is sitting
in the corner office working on Excel. For that week
or those three four days, you are spending it with
(11:46):
the team in a very deep, meaningful way. And that's
the best way to build connection.
Speaker 3 (11:51):
I believe, Oh yeah, quality experiences totally and I really
appreciate this is why I get so excited about your
research and your work, Raj, is that you're giving you
your really extending the opportunity for more humans across the
planet to participate in the world of work that in
a way that works on their terms, and therefore you're
actually helping people to realize more of their potential. And
I could get behind that every day all day long. Okay,
(12:15):
So speaking of that, we got to talk next about
some of the ways that working from home helps human
and social impact really really interesting things. You already talked
a bit about how it helps empower people and families
to stay together and to be able to have more
of what they want from their respective lives, but then
you also talk about rebalancing economic geography, and I was
really interested. You do talk about the research that Suhani
(12:39):
Jalada and also Lisa Hoe have been doing which has
really speaking to elevating employment opportunities for women in countries
and communities where the social and religious norms are stacked
against them. So working from home opens that for them,
and I think that's really compelling. So if we could
talk a little bit about the human and social impact
and working from home affords.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
Yeah, sure, But first of all, you know that study
is a work from home study, which I respect my
book in my research mostly is about work from anywhere.
It's about choosing the geography. The same principles apply. So
what they find in their research is in certain communities. So,
first of all, their main motivation is that in India,
it is really surprising that a pretty progressive country with
(13:24):
a very vibrant democracy has a really a bimissile female
labor rate participation, So it's really really low. And one
of the reasons they argue it's low is that in
many communities in India, women are not expected to socially
because of the family norms, step out and be working.
(13:48):
And so now what this remote work option does is
it alleviates this problem. And what they find fascinatingly is
that in many cases, the family doesn't even know the
woman is working. I think they're playing some sort of
you know, working on some app on their phone, right,
But the fact that they are now participating in some
(14:08):
economic activity for which they're getting paid, it's something that
you know, it's opening up a new whole world for
these women. Yeah, and so I think and I've seen
replications of this study in Africa. Now the same issue there.
But you know, just on that theme, the one thing
we didn't talk about is people with neurodiverse conditions or disabilities, right,
(14:32):
And you know, the research has shown that these people
don't want to live in a bustling city and commute
every day. They would much prefer live in a smaller
town where they have access to their amenities. Work from
Anywhere opens up the door of employment to them. So
I can keep going on and on and on about
how this is inclusive and how it allows multiple people
(14:53):
to participate in the labor force.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
Love your passion. Let's grab a quick break on that note.
I'm your host doctor really scored. Has we've been on
the air where doctor Perthraraj Childry. He goes by Raj, who,
while serving on the faculties of Wharton and Harvard Business
Schools for over a decade, has been studying how technology
is shifting where we work and how we work, as
well as the impact of AI on organizations and how
(15:16):
a on automation can help both desk workers and desk
list workers work from anywhere. We've been talking so far
about the idea behind work from how working from anywhere
and also its benefits to companies as well as its
impact on families and socially as well. After the break,
we're going to talk about really how leaders can embrace
implementation in the future of work. We'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
Doctor Release Courts has as a management consultant specializing in
meaning and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author, she helps
companies visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose
inspired leadership and meaning infuse cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance,
and commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to
invite Elise to speak to your organization, please visit her
(16:14):
at elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get
your employees working on purpose. This is working on Purpose
with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today or
to open a conversation with Elise, send an email to
Alise A Lisee at eliscortes dot com. Now back to
(16:38):
working on Purpose.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Thanks for stating with us, and welcome back to working
on Purpose. I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortes, as I
also am dedicated to help them create a world where
organizations thrive because they're people thrive. They're led by inspirational
leaders that help them and find them, contribute their greatness,
and we do business a better the world. I keep
researching and writing my own books, so one of my
latest came out. It's called The Great Revitalization. How activating
meaning and purpose can radically in life in your business.
(17:07):
I wrote to help leaders better understand the lay of
today's discerning and diverse workforce and what they can do
to provide something that will make them want to come
to work for them, and then provide twenty two best
projects to equip you to be able to inculcate that.
You can find my books on Amazon or my personal
site at least Cortes dot com if you are now
just joining us. My guest is Prith Barrage Chowdri He's
(17:28):
the author of the World is Your Office How work
from anywhere boost talent, productivity and innovation. So I want
to talk next here if we can raj about how
we can implement this and how leaders can embrace it,
because I do know there are fears out there, and
we certainly know right out of the gate we do
need some leaders to be able to embrace trust and
(17:49):
allow for and unleash the autonomy. And I know that
that is a major issue for many organizations. And so
can we talk a little bit about what you recommend
for leaders to either develop in terms of their competencies
their behaviors to be able to embrace this idea, especially
around trust and autonomy.
Speaker 4 (18:06):
Yes, I'll just summarize, you know, and then the book
gives a chapter by chapter detail on all of us.
So the first thing that you know I write about
in the book is that this cannot be a one
size fits all for the whole company. The unit of
analysis should not be the company and shouldn't be the
person either. The right unit of analysis is the team.
(18:29):
So the team should have freedom to choose what I
call among three forms of hybrid. So what I try
to do in the book is expand our imagination about
what hybrid is. What most people call hybrid, I call
it weekly hybrid, where the team is meeting every week,
so the frequency of meeting is weekly. In the book,
(18:51):
I write about two other forms of hybrid, which I
call monthly hybrid and quarterly hybrid. So in a monthly
hybrid model, the team working from anywhere for three weeks
every month, and for one week they're coming together for
three or four days. So imagine living in Connecticut for
the whole month, and then you are taking the train
(19:12):
or driving down to New York City to meet the
team in the fourth week every month for three days,
and then you get back to your home in Connecticut.
So that's monthly hybrid. And the European Central Bank, one
of the largest federal banks in the world, is now
practicing monthly hybrid. They let their bankers live anywhere in
the EU for about one hundred ten days a year,
(19:34):
and the condition is that you have to meet your
team once every month for a few days. The other
form is the quarterly hybrid model, where now you're living
anywhere in the country or sometimes even anywhere in the world,
and you are coming together once a quarter for a retreat.
And what I do in the book is I say,
(19:55):
once the team has chosen whether to practice weekly, month
or quarterly hybrid, there are a set of management practices
that you need to master, so I can go through
all of them. But if you think about a weekly team,
the most important practice is scheduling. Because when a company
says come to the office three days or two days,
(20:18):
if part of the team is coming Monday Tuesday and
part of the team is coming Thursday Friday. Then the
whole team is never together. You need to get your
schedules aligned. And similarly for monthly and quarterly hybrid you
need to do some other management practices Differently. You have
to codify knowledge, you have to participate in virtual water coolers,
(20:39):
you have to get the off site planned really really well.
So in the book, I say the first choice is
choose among the three hybrid models, and based on that
recipe book I layout. Then you have to you know
what management practices you need to master as a team.
Speaker 3 (20:57):
How would you be able to start to address I've
seen this all the time, Raj, this idea of managing
my present smith. If I see you, I think you
might be working instead of really looking at the output
of productivity or what is it that actually want you
to do? And I do know that under that very
much is a mistrust. I do not believe my people
are working. How can leaders start to move away from
(21:18):
that anchored What do I want to say, chain around
at the ankle?
Speaker 4 (21:23):
Yeah, So the two things to be done. The mechanical
thing to do, which I write about in the book,
is to start measuring performance based on quality of work
and not how many hours you worked, how many days
you worked, how many times the manager sees your face.
That's the mechanical thing to do, and it's a tough
thing to do, but it's very doable. And with one company.
(21:44):
What I'm doing right now is I'm going by role,
task by task and revisiting all the KPIs for how
people are getting their performance rating. But the more fundamental,
deeper issue, I think what you're hinting at, Alice is
something I completely agree that there is a fundamental lack
of trust among some managers, I wouldn't say everyone, and
(22:05):
a certain graphic of managers in my opinion, where they
think that if people are working remotely, they are shirking.
My response to that is you are confounding your lack
of trust with remote work. If a person is a shirker,
trust me, that person will also shirk in the office.
They will appear to be busy and they'll have other
(22:28):
things open on the computer. So it's a hiring problem
or a trust issue that you're confounding as remote work.
So if you have hired the right person who has
the right amount of intrinsic motivation, where the fit between
the person and the job is really good and the
person is being measured on quality of work, then there's
(22:48):
no reason for the person to shirk when you can
see them. And I think there's a certain generation of
manager that still doesn't get it, but they will be
forced to adapt because the labor market is cruel. In
today's labor market, if you're not offering flexible positions, you
will not attract a diverse workforce and your board will
(23:09):
slam you at one point. Seeing what's going.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
On, I had Miles Everson on earlier on and he
was talking about he gave a quote from the pricewaterhouse
chairman that said, the war for talent is over talent one. Okay,
so let's talk. Let's finish up our conversation here by
talking about really the future of work. One of the
things that's so exciting for me to get to talk
with and connect with guests like you, Raj, is getting
(23:33):
into tap to your expertise and just really getting to
extend what I know and what I practice today. So
I want to ask you a couple of things about
where all of this is going. So I first want
to ask because people are wondering, well, could work from
anywhere work for us? What about our industry? So are
there certain kinds of industries is just limited to knowledge
work that works for work from anywhere?
Speaker 4 (23:56):
No, so that used to be the case, but it's changing.
So in the book I talk about this idea of
digital twins, and digital twins is very much a reality today,
unlike the metaverse. So digital twin is a combination of sensors,
AI and automation where you can create a real time
model of a hospital ward or a piece of farmland,
(24:20):
or a factory making detergents, or a power generation utility
or an offshore oil rig on your computer. And in
the book I have examples about a Unilever factory in
Brazil making detergents and a Turkish power generation company that
runs twenty four power plants in Turkey about how implementing
(24:44):
a digital twin allowed blue collar workers to work from anywhere.
And this is happening in the New York hospitals now
with their electronic ICO the eICU. Not every doctorate nurses
in the hospital anymore. Many doctors and nurses are far
away working just on a computer, sitting on a cafe
(25:06):
or sitting at home, monitoring patients remotely. So I think
this is already happening, and my guess is this will
unleash the next wave of work from anywhere among doctors
and nurses and turbine engineers and people who traditionally worked
on site.
Speaker 3 (25:23):
That is so exciting, Raj, so so exciting. Okay, now
just for grins and giggles, that's what's happening today already
and in the near future. Can you bring us forward, say,
three to five years in the future. What are we
doing in three to five years in terms of work?
Speaker 4 (25:38):
Yeah, So I think the thing that I'm studying right
now is how gen Ai is creating a special kind
of bot, which is personal bot. So this is something
that I'm studying right now. So personal bot is a
bot for one person. It's a bot for Elise or
a bot for Raj that can answer questions the way
(25:58):
Elise or Raj would answer. So if you had my
bod instead of me on the podcast, and if the
bot was well trained, it could do the same job
that I'm doing right now, which I think it could
because I've done a bunch of these podcasts, So you
could take the text of every time I've spoken and
train a bot to answer questions just like I would.
(26:18):
And so in a study we actually did a bot
for a CEO, the CEO of Zapier Weight Foster and
employees at Zapier asked questions and they didn't know whether
the answer came from the human weight or the bot weight,
and they couldn't tell. One of the main findings of
the study is the bot passed the Turing test. So
(26:40):
my prediction is in five years, almost all of us,
just like we have email, we'll have personal bots and
they will be answering part of our communication, not all
of it. But that will unleash a third wave of
work from anywhere because for the first time in history,
we are separating human capital from the humane and the
(27:01):
bots don't need work life balance. The bot can be
scaled in parallel. The bots can be answering Q and
A when I'm flying on a plane or when I'm sleeping,
so time zones become less of an issue. So I
think all of this comes with a lot of cautions.
Read my latest study on my website for all the
cautions on when the bot doesn't work and in what ways.
(27:26):
But I think in five years that'll be a distinct possibility.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
Now that is very alluring. Okay, so I just have
two more questions. One is the last real question, and
then I'll let you finish. Since you know this show
is really about activating and unleashing human potential, It's about
working for purpose with meaning, etc. I want to give
our listeners of viewers who haven't yet read your book
the opportunity to glance into just really how leaders can
(27:51):
embrace the work from anywhere mentality not to be more efficient,
but also to build more purposeful, humane, and future ready organizations.
Let's leave them with that possibility. What could that look
like for leaders?
Speaker 4 (28:03):
Yes, I'll end by saying the same thing I said
at the start that what's driven all of my research
over the past fifteen years actually is that I believe
that talent is everywhere, opportunities are not, and geography has
been one of the constraints for many people. So if
you grew up in Silicon Valley, you have a different
(28:24):
set of opportunities than if you grew up in a
small rural city in the middle of the country. And
that should not be the case. You should not have
to leave your community and your parents and your church
and whatever is close to you just for work. So
I think we should be allowed to exercise our purpose
(28:44):
and our talents wherever we live, without moving our life
somewhere else if we don't want to. And that is
what worked from anywhere is.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
I am so grateful to know you, Raj, that you
said yes. Want to reach out to you saying I
want you to come on my podcast and talk about this.
I'm great for the work that you're doing, the research
that you're doing. You're helping us all extend our potential
and our possibility. Grateful to know you. Thank you for
coming on working on purpose.
Speaker 4 (29:09):
Thank you Elise, and I'll just share one last update.
As of yesterday, I have a new job. I joined
the London School of Economics as a full professor.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
Oh that's exciting. Thank you for telling me. But I
do want to give you the chance. Sorry, I got
so excited about having you on. Would you like to
leave our listeners and viewers with any other thoughts today?
Speaker 4 (29:26):
No? So I think you know you can find me
on LinkedIn. Would love to hear what you think and
what are you working on.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
Definitely I'm going to share your that detail and your
website as well here as I close. Thank you again, Raj,
Thank you You're welcome listeners and viewers. I do believe
you're going to want to connect with Prith Barrage Chowdhry
as I have. You can find him very handily on LinkedIn.
He's extremely responsive. You can also go to his own
personal website, which is his name. Let me spell it
(29:52):
for you. So first it's said Prith Barrage Chowdery, So
the way you spell that is pr you I R
A J and then Chowdrey is c h o U
d h u r y Prithraraz Chowdhury dot com. See
you next week for another nourishing and inspiring episode on
Working on Purpose, and remember, work is one of the
(30:13):
best adventures and means of realizing our potential and making
the impact we crave and can give us the opportunity
to do business in a way that betters the world.
So let's work on Purpose.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
We hope you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure to
tune into Working on Purpose featuring your host, doctor Elise Cortes,
each week on W four CY. Together we'll create a
world where business operates conscientiously. Leadership inspires and passion performance
and employees are fulfilled in work that provides the meaning
and purpose they crave. See you there. Let's work on purpose.
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