February 25, 2025 • 50 mins
In the rush to mandate full-time office returns, many leaders are ignoring a hard truth: The workforce has fundamentally changed. The quiet, focused environment of remote work rewired our brains—making the noisy, distraction-filled office a productivity killer. Forcing employees back may seem like a win, but at what cost? This episode unpacks the real impact on satisfaction, stress, and the very productivity companies think they’re restoring. Guest: Monica Mitchell.
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Working on Purpose is broadcast live Tuesdays at 6PM ET and Music on W4CY Radio (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Working on Purpose is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
Working on Purpose Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The topics and opinions express in the following show are
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those of W FOURCY Radio. It's employees are affiliates. We
make no recommendations or endorsements for radio show programs, services,
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(00:21):
W FOURCY Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
What's working on Purpose? Anyway? Each week we ponder the
answer to this question. People ache for meaning and purpose
at work, to contribute their talents passionately and know their
lives really matter. They crave being part of an organization
that inspires them and helps them grow into realizing their
highest potential. Business can be such a force for good
in the world, elevating humanity. In our program, we provide
(00:51):
guidance and inspiration to help usher in this world we
all want working on Purpose. Now here's your host, doctor
Elise Cortes.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Welcome back to your Working on Breakfast program, which has
been brought to you with passionate and pride since February
of twenty fifteen. Thanks for tuning and again this week.
Great to have you. I'm your host, Doctor Earlies Cortes,
and if we've not met before, I'm an organizational psychologist,
management consultant, logo therapist, a speaker and author. My team
and I at Gusto Now help companies to enliven and
fortify their operations by building a dynamic, high performance culture
(01:25):
and inspirational leadership activated by meaning and purpose. Did you
know that inspired employees outperform their satisfied peers by factor
of two point twenty five two one. In other words,
inspiration is good for the bottom line. You'll learn more
about us now. We can work together at gustodashnow dot
com or my personal site of these Couretes dot com.
Before we get into today's program, I'm thrilled to announce
that registration is open for a fabulous to in conference
(01:47):
for women for which I'll serve as the MC. It's
called Thrive in twenty five and a jam packed few
days in Chicago June twenty fifth to the twenty eight,
twenty twenty five designed to develop women as whole selves,
from bolstering your mindset to your financial acumen, to leadership,
to incorporating nature and art into your life, to your
ways of consciousness, and much more. You can visit thrive
(02:07):
in twenty five for information and to register. Use my
promo code of Gusto all caps to gain access to
different books and programs. I'll be giving registrants as well.
See you there today. With us is Monica Mitchell, who
has built a thirty year career at AT and T,
where she moved seven times. Today she leads an organization
of one hundred and twenty employees that manages a thirty
(02:27):
billion dollars software development portfolio. She also leads the Agile,
CYOE and Change leadership team that is passionate about employee
development and mentoring and making real transformation happen. We'll be
talking about how the workforce has changed in the last
few years and how we can design a workplace that
meets the needs and wants of today and tomorrow's workforce.
To jo to today from Dallas, Monica, Welcome to Working
(02:48):
on Purpose.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
Thank you, I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
It's fun, you know soon to d that too. I
was like, she's hopelessly wickets smart. I know we could
have a very intelligent conversation when you totally you're working
on a PhD. My I totally have to talk to her.
So let's start there. Remind me what you're studying in
your PhD?
Speaker 4 (03:05):
And where working on? A Doctor of Business Administration with
William Howard Taft University out of Denver, Okay.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
And why do we do this? You know there, you've
got a family, You've got a big career. I mean,
why did this is?
Speaker 5 (03:21):
What?
Speaker 3 (03:21):
You know we did call this crazy making manica?
Speaker 4 (03:24):
Yeah, it really is.
Speaker 5 (03:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
No. I took a job a few years back with
AT and T leading something we called flex Force and
tended to have hundreds of our college new hires or
people three to ten years in the company, and they
wanted mentorship and guidance on their career. And I learned
(03:50):
that that was one of my favorite jobs and that
teaching them what I had learned over twenty to thirty
years was very for filling. And I started looking at
the breadth and depth of my career and all the
opportunities that this great company had given me. And you know,
(04:11):
I've done landline, wireless video, participated in the iPad, the iPhone,
these industry changing things and when you go to business schools,
the Harvard Business Cases and all of those at and
T is in every textbook, and I thought, I have
(04:31):
lived this, and who better to teach rising business students
than somebody who was there. But I didn't have the
credential to break into teaching. So sitting at home during
the pandemic, why not get online degree so that I
can go and share all of this wealth of experience
(04:54):
with young people who are really wanting to know brilliant.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
I love that. And I know we talked about your dissertation,
but remind me what you want to research or are researching.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
I'm researching the impact of return to office on really employees,
and that can be anything from financial to what they
need to make it worth it to them to come
back to the office and put all that effort in.
And you know there are a number of things they
(05:26):
need besides just financial economic benefits, which I think we're
going to talk about a little bit today.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Yeah, for sure, I love that. That's right, exactly right, Okay.
I mean I loved my pursuing on my PhD, and
I love teaching as well, so you know I'm already
already in sync with you. Okay, So one of the
things I thought was interesting about in an article that
I read was it was talking about, of course, you know,
they've been going through through the pandemic and coming to
understand it and so doing we had been through a
(05:53):
car crash together. We've survived a car crash. It was
so there's so many things about that. So I want
this first part of our conversation to stitch kind of
you know, we knew humans and where we've come from
the last few years. So one of the things I've
noticed is that it's very hard now today to get
people to come out for any kind of events. I
don't care if you're offering them food, drink, it's free.
(06:15):
It's just people. Prying people out of their homes has
been hard. What have you noticed around just the socialization
aspect since the pandemic.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
You know, when we all got sent home, it was hard.
As a manager. I had to plan virtual happy hours
and lunches because my people felt so disconnected and trapped
in their homes and they didn't know how to act.
And we were doing that once twice a week just
(06:46):
to help them adjust. Well, over time, they did adjust
and we went to once a month and then they
didn't need it at all, right, And then we asked
them to come back, and they're like, I could get
sick if I come back. And we finally get them
back and they're telling us they're physically and emotionally uncomfortable. Yeah,
(07:10):
it's not only the car crash of the pandemic. There's
a car crash to coming back and what's causing that.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Yeah, and I want to definitely cover that when we
get into the second part of this conversation. One of
the things that I'm also present to is and I
noticed it too. I have been working from home for
years in might for my business. But what people began
to notice is how much time they had spent in
that commute. And I remember a conversation Monica when there
(07:39):
was a discussion or at least some articles being floated about,
is should could people actually consider their commute time as
part of their workday because they recognized how much and
up to ninety minutes two hours a day in commute time.
Now that could be repurposed if you're actually not going
to the office.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
And in fact, many people did work extra hours because
they can get out of bed go straight to their computer.
As we asked them to come back. We are seeing
some drops in productivity because they're back on the road.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Interesting. That's very interesting.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
You know.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
One of the other things that I was present to
and I wrote about it in my first book Purpose
Ignited It Behind Me, which came out of November in
twenty twenty, is I really also discovered in my research
that during the pandemic, when people had all that quote
down time, or at least alone time, it took stock
of their lives and they thought about what they really wanted,
and a lot of people found their overall lives and
their work lives less than what they wanted. They didn't
(08:37):
want to go back to the streaming boss. They didn't
want to go back to work that maybe wasn't just
fulfilling or interesting. So already we had this notion of
people saying, huh, you know, I think I'm going to
go ahead and leave this industry now. And so curious,
what kind of research have you come across in terms
of how people have reevaluated their lives and their work.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
I think they not only reevaluated their lives and their works.
I think to some degree, employers brought this on themselves, right,
we sold building saved money, even boasted that we didn't
see ever going back to the way things were. We
(09:18):
got an increase in productivity because people were spending all
that drive time working, and we weren't counting on the
lack of collaboration and innovation that may come with that
because we didn't see that at first. We just saw
the productivity that we were getting and the money that
we were saving by not paying electric bills and getting
(09:39):
rid of buildings and making those statements to employees. They
believed us, We're never going back, and so some of
them said, I could live further away from the office
and save money on my mortgage. They did. Some of
them moved to another state to take care of an
aging parent or to be near grandchildren because they believed us.
(10:05):
Now we ask them to come back. That's a major
life decision, particularly if the company doesn't want to fund it, right,
And so, Yeah, in addition to anything just about the
cost of living or the cost of gas, or the
time you spend on the road. People who made those
(10:25):
adjustments to take care of real life issues, it's a
real inconvenience to them.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
Yeah. I had a great conversation a couple of weeks ago.
I think I told you about it with my Nam Maranas,
who wrote a book called The Flexibility Paradigm. She has
some incredible research in there about flexibility and hybrid and
all sorts of things. And one of the things that
she said is that really struck me is that, you know,
when we don't know, kind of make work more accessible
(10:52):
for people, what we're actually really doing at the end
of the day is we're limiting their potential. And that
really got me, you know, as somebody who's help for
you know, to be able to unleash people to their
passion and their purpose and create a destination workplace. So
just what you're saying is kind of speaking to that,
and I think it's another sort of surrounded sound point
(11:12):
on the matter.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
Exactly. There is a researcher out of Stanford who did
some work showing that we hired more disabled people during
the pandemic telework and that return to office may in
fact disadvantage them because they can't come in.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Yeah, I've also seen some research on that too, and
that also came up in one's book as well. And
then the other thing that I that I think is
really interesting in terms of you know, right now we're
just sort of presencing the new kind of the new workforce,
the new human that emerged from this the pandemic. We
went through other changes in the workplace. But the other
phenomenon that I'm seeing that I'm finding really really interested in,
(11:59):
which having lived abroad myself in my twenties, is so
many people are moving to other countries altogether. I personally
know for people alone who have moved to Portugal. So
this this is so interesting. And then I met a
gentleman who founded an organization here in Dallas called Work Exploring.
Now what they do is they specialize in helping support
companies who offer remote work to other people around the
(12:21):
globe as a part of their draw for work, as
a perk for the work. You know, I'm stationed in Greece.
You know, my company supports that kind of thing or
whatever it is. So I'm interested in your perspective whatever
you've seen on the mobility that that's emerged after the pandemic.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
There is great talent in some other countries. There's also
been some research on could we use remote work to
help underdeveloped areas bring up their economic value by letting
some of these jobs move into places that we could
(13:00):
put some infrastructure and bring up really the value of
their economies by letting them have this higher paying work.
I think there's a lot of global advantage to allowing
some of us to move there and help bring some
of those economies kind of into the twenty first century,
if you will, and a lot of value to it
(13:23):
if we would explore it.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
You know. Of course, you know that seems to my
soul because I'm a conscious capitalist and really I believe
in the power of business to lift the world. I
believe in that. So that is a beautiful point for me.
And then the other side of that occurs to me
is that by having someone on in your workforce that's
in these different countries, maybe you learn something more about
you will and something more about those cultures, and maybe
(13:46):
that's another way for you to develop a greater customer
base there, or improve the customer base that you already
have there. So and of course, as somebody who believes
in the power of learning from other cultures, that's where
my company is called Gusto now because it means the
same thing in the English, Spanish and Portuguese exuberance, excitement, zeal,
which is what I'm trying to help organizations impart into
(14:08):
their culture. So that is a very very interesting idea
to me that I know, I want to explore more.
If you learn more about that, I want to know.
It just means we have to have lunch. That's all, Monica. Okay, well,
let's grab our first break. I'm your host, Doctor Lee's Cortes.
We've been on the air with Monica Mitchell, who leads
(14:29):
an organization of one hundred and twenty employees that manages
at AT and T, that manages a three billion dollar
software development portfolio. We've been talking about how it is
that she got into the space of really trying to
understand the impact return to office and her interest in
seeing how we can create the workforce of the future.
Will be right back.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Doctor Elise Cortes is a management consultant specializing in meaning
and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author, she helps companies
visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired
leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and
commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite
a lease to speak to your organization, please visit her
(15:26):
at elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get
your employees working on purpose. This is working on Purpose
with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today or
to open a conversation with Elise, send an email to
Elise alisee at elisecortes dot com. Now back to working
(15:50):
on purpose.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
Thanks for staning with us. Are welcome back to working
on purpose. I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortes, as I
am dedicated to hopen the create a world where people
realize the potential at work, are led by inspirational leaders
that help them find and contribute their greatness, and we
do business that betters the world. I continue to research
and write my own books, so my last one came
out in twenty twenty three. It's called a Great Revitalization.
How activating meaning and purpose can radically enliven your business.
(16:18):
And I wanted to help leaders understand that today's workforce
what is it they want to need? Much like what
we're having in this conversation, and then I offer twenty
two best prejudices to equip them to provide that in
their leadership and their culture. You can find my books
on Amazon or check them out on my website at
least core test dot com if you are just now
joining us. My guest is Monica Mitchell, who, in addition
to leading her software development team one hundred and twenty
(16:39):
people at AT and T, also leads the Agile Centers
of Excellence and Change Leadership. It was passionate about team
employee development and mentoring and making real transformation happen. Sounds
good to me. So one of the reasons I totally
wanted to have you on that program, you might recall,
is when you just sort of mentioned, matter of factly
that part of what had happened during the pandemic is
(17:01):
that our brains had been rewired. Let's talk about that.
That's pretty fascinating.
Speaker 4 (17:06):
Absolutely, before we went home for the pandemic, we were
used to the open office concept, noise. I had people
lined up outside my door to ask questions. I was
used to the interruptions. I maybe had to bring my
laptop home for focused work like writing appraisals or whatever
(17:29):
because I needed alone time. But I was used to
that interaction and noise and chaos at work. I expected it,
I even maybe thrived on it. I came home in
March of twenty twenty and like my employees, I felt
a little lost alone. It was quiet. I was trapped
(17:51):
in the four walls of my house, and as I
mentioned earlier, we sat up the virtual lunches and happy
hours so that we could all feel some connection. And
over time I adjusted to the quiet and the piece
and that I could focus and get a lot of
work done a lot faster. And then when we started
(18:16):
return to office, it was only one or two days
a week, and so I would go in and I
enjoyed the social but I would leave all of the
focus work for the days I wasn't going in, and
so that was okay. But I would notice that if
I was working at home and some of my employees
were in the office, I would be like, can't you
go find a quiet room? All those people walking behind you,
(18:40):
talking behind you is distracting me. You know, as you mentioned,
I have the Agile Center of Excellence. They coach and
teach agility. Their students would complain when they were doing
a virtual class if people were walking behind them or
making noise because it was distracting, and so we had
to tell them on the days you're teaching a home
(19:01):
it's bothering your students. And the question was, why does
this bother us? It didn't bother us before, and so
I started reading research and looking into it. What is
it that's going on? And there is some research that
all that quiet and the sudden change of the pandemic
literally our brains are able to adapt, and they did
(19:27):
very well. They love the quiet, and going back is
now giving us that same car crash pain and need
to adjust, and people are resisting it the same way
we resisted coming home because it's emotionally disturbing. You know.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
It's one of the many things I love. The reasons
I keep hosting this podcast after ten years because I
always learned something significant from each of my guests, and
what you've helped me with that as well, Monica, because
I just assumed that I had just become or of
an introvert during the pandemic. So that's personality, not brain function,
and I can completely see that I do. I'm very
(20:08):
spooked by noises. Somebody slams that the cupboard in the
locker room of my gym, I jump out of my
out of my chair. So now we're starting to see
in some of those significant distractions are disrupting focus and
ampering productivity. And what I find really fascinating is, you know,
during the pendemic, there was this big focus on well being,
and now it's like, oh, I don't think we're really
(20:31):
talking about that right now. If we cared about well being,
I think there would be a different approach to how
people are coming back to the office exactly.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
And really, our offices are designed for nineteen ninety nine
two thousand and the chaos that we were used to.
We don't have enough noise dampening devices. We don't have
enough focus rooms or places you can do a private
chat or deep thought, and so you're bringing in people
(21:05):
with a changed brain who are more sensitive to it.
I've had employees tell me that their ADHD got worse
over the pandemic, which may actually be a side effect
of COVID, you know. And then they have this brain
change where they got used to the quiet, and they're saying,
I can't focus, I'm having trouble getting my work done
and there's no quiet place to sit. That's going to
(21:29):
have a huge impact on productivity and your overall well
being because then they begin to think, is my job
at risk if I can't get it done?
Speaker 3 (21:38):
Yeah, for sure, you're reminding me. You know, I remember
when I moved from I had a corner office for
a job that I was working at in Elite nineteen nineties,
and then I came in as a consultant to T
Mobile at that time to help them really develop their
recruiting department. We were in a big bullpen kind of environment,
which was I just hated it because I would sneeze
(21:59):
and somebody whom well on the other end of the
room would say, bless you, and I felt so invaded.
My privacy felt so invaded. I did get used to it,
but it just really you're reminding me of this. And
what I think is interesting too, is I noticed in
one of the articles that you shared with me, the
research from the University of California at Irvine found that
(22:20):
employees and pubicles received twenty nine percent more interruptions than
those in private offices, leading to the high rates of exhaustion,
et cetera. And I think it's just if you are
losing I know, I read one that said you could
lose three to five hours of productive time every day
due to people dropping in or unwanted questions or people
just board just need to connect kind of thing. That's
(22:41):
a lot of.
Speaker 4 (22:42):
Time, it is, and then you add to the time
in traffic, how much time are you losing that you
previously spent just focusing.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Yeah. I liked also this idea here, you know, if
those organizations that have managed to really embrace flexible and
hybrid sort of options, I like the idea that you
know that that there's evidence that allows people to do
their best work in the office and that's when of
the most effective, and to be able to focus at home.
So then the idea that allowing them the employee, the
(23:17):
employees to do their focused work, their individual walk at home,
like you've been saying, where they have control of their
environment and minimize their distructions. But then the office becomes
a hub of collaboration and nuanced conversations, mentoring, on the
job training, socializing. That's a really nice mix, it.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
Is and I think necessary. Our chief technology officer you know,
recently said there are going to be days when your
work is so focused you need to stay home most
of the time. We want you in the office collaborating, mentoring,
having purposeful meetings, but we understand there are going to
(23:53):
be days life happens you need to be at home
because there's a repairment coming or given you and assignment
that's really difficult, and I need you to focus on it.
And you know, I think the individual supervisors have to
have the authority to make that adjustment so that the
real work can be done in the right way.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
Yeah. One of the other articles that I came across
that I thought was really really interesting, and I'm pretty
sure that you saw it really be ensured it with me,
but I thought it was interesting. There was somebody named
Thomas Carmichael, professor and chair of the Neurology Department at
UCLA David Geffen's School of Medicine. He mentioned in an
(24:38):
article our brains are like flatbyt biceps and suggests that
we should make ourselves work from the office more often
to strengthen those flatby biceps. And then, of course there's
some counter to that, so I'd be interested in maybe
you're sort of your counter perspective on putting the owners
fully on the employee to deal with that adaptation.
Speaker 4 (24:58):
I don't think we should the onus fully on the employee.
I think we have to recognize that a we have
less office space than we did and if we want
a full return to office, we may have to increase
our footprint so that there's enough space. And b that
the offices we have were designed for people who were
(25:21):
emotionally wired differently and there was an impact to the
pandemic that we can't erase. Right, So we need to
design workspaces that allow the people who are coming back
with the limitations and changes that have happened to them
to function. And if they need more private spaces, more
(25:45):
places where they can focus, sound dampening surfaces and partitions,
if that's what they need to be able to both
collaborate and focus, then the onus is on the company
to provide that good work environment that allows the employee
(26:07):
to be productive and successful.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Mm hmm. I think that's really really interesting. And and
then we get into you know, this notion of return
on experience and for the for the time and the
effort that it that it takes to come into the office.
You know, seeing more and more discussion around well, how
do we provide a return on the experience for that?
(26:31):
And so can you talk a little bit about you know,
you say you do something to accommodate the employee, but
when we do ask them to come into the office,
you know, what can we do for them to encourage
and reward that.
Speaker 4 (26:42):
You know, I think one of the reasons that some
of the hybrid arrangements didn't seem successful is there was
no structure yeap what people came in whatever day they
wanted and none of their team members are there, and
so they would they would say, I'm coming in to
sit on a teams or a zoom by myself, just
(27:05):
like I did at home. What was the purpose? I
think you have to design both the workspace and the
structure of the day so that people are with the
people they need to collaborate with, and you've structured the
meetings and the exercises in a way that they feel
like they're getting something out of it. That means structured mentoring,
(27:27):
giving people work buddies, things, meaningful experiences.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Yeah. My nam Morolani's talked about that too. So she's
she's really putting forth and she's got a whole you know,
five step process that she helps companies go through to
embrace a flexibility culture. The part of it is it's
it's it's structures, it's strategy and structure, she says. You know,
so you've got a strategy for flexibility why are you
(27:53):
doing this? I was supporting your business objectives, et cetera.
And then the actual strategy to carry it out, which
was and hold up that structure is what we talked
about a couple of weeks ago. I really it was
incredible to discover her work. I had another question. I
want to ask you on that just a second. Yeah,
(28:15):
So when it comes to when it comes to how
people are interacting in this new environment, one of the
things that I'm trying to put forth is why aren't
we embracing more of the possibility here. I know it's
so much easier to think you can go back, let's
just go back to the way things work because we
know that, But there's such an opportunity here to you know,
(28:35):
enlarge ourselves and how we think about these things, how
we approach these things and do more, being more and
therefore have more and when we work to go beyond
you know, just what we knew from the past, any
research ideas that you've seen about what it's taking to
kind of pull more leaders up into this new or
higher thinking realm.
Speaker 4 (28:55):
Well, I think first we didn't know the backlash went
are going to get because we didn't understand that people's
brains were rewired, and that it was really going to
be an emotional event. Right now that we're seeing that,
I think the researchers are coming forward with the information
(29:16):
that managers need to realize they've got to do things differently.
But this is just just now hitting the research journals
and management journals that people can read to realize we've
got to do it different There's actually a reason you're
getting this reaction, and here's how you need to react
(29:37):
to it. We may take another year and a half
to actually react to that, because that's typically how it works.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
Yeah, that's you know. The reason I'm an organizational psychologist, Monk,
is because I believe in the wonder power and nobility
of work, and I believe it in a way that
helps us realize our potential if we do it well,
and we can do business that better the world. So
I'm dedicated to being part of, you know, the cadre
of people that are working together to usher in a
(30:08):
world of work that works for everybody. I just don't
want to wait for a year and a half, monthing.
Speaker 5 (30:12):
I really know, you know, And I read the headlines
like Amazon doesn't have enough desks for the people coming back, right,
and you wonder it's a math exercise.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
Right it is?
Speaker 3 (30:26):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (30:28):
How hard is that? I don't know?
Speaker 3 (30:30):
Yeah, yeah. So so I'm just very very happy that
I found you and your research. A PERSONA did more
about that. We'll stay in touch, but let's let's grab
our last break here, one more segment that I want
to talk about how we can architect today and tomorrow's workplace.
We've been in the air with Monica Mitchell, who leads
(30:51):
an organization of one hundred and twenty employees that manages
a three hundred three billion dollars software development portfolio, among
many of the things. I am ELISEE. Cortez, and we've
been talking just recently about how our brains have been
required during the pandemic. Out of the right, we're going
to talk about the future.
Speaker 5 (31:07):
Be right back.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Doctor Elise Cortes is a management consultant specializing in meaning
and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author, she helps companies
visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired
leadership and meaning imfused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and
commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite
Elise to speak to your organization, please visit her at
(31:45):
elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get your
employees working on purpose. This is working on Purpose with
doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today or to
open a conversation with Elise, send an email to a
lease ALISEE at eliscortes dot com. Now back to working
(32:09):
on purpose.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
Thanks for Jane with us, and welcome back to working
on Purpose. I'm your host, doctor at Least Cortes. I
mentioned in the last break that my latest book came
out in twenty twenty three, The Great Vitalization. What he
did for you is I created a free three page
organizational assessment. You can learn the extent to which your
company's leadership and culture meets the standards of today's discerning workforce.
You can find it on my website gustodashnow dot com
(32:37):
if you are just joining us. My guest is Monica Mitchell, who,
in addition to leading her software development team of one
entred and twenty at AT and T, also leads the
Agile Center of Excellence. Change leadership is passionate about team
employee development and mentoring and making real transformation happen. So
for this last segment here, I wanted to get your perspective,
your thoughts, your research, what you've seen on how we
(32:57):
can architect the workforce, the work place for today's and
tomorrows employees. You had mentioned in one of our exchanges
that we for us to be able to create that
this vision of destination workplaces and such, we actually have
to create an architect something very different. So let's talk
about that. Let me just let you respond to that,
and then I have a few pepperwine questions.
Speaker 4 (33:20):
Sure, when I was working on my bachelor's degree, which
is in industrial engineering, I studied ergonomics, how to design
a workplace that was centered around the body and safety
and health. Flash forward thirty years. We not only need
(33:46):
a workplace that thinks about the physical and ergonomics, we
now have research that shows the pandemic altered our brains
and how we emotion react and behave, and the workplace
now has to take that into account. If we want
(34:07):
people to be productive and perform at their highest potential,
we need activity based spaces where if they need to collaborate,
there's room for them to do that. They need to focus.
There needs to be a place for them to do that.
We had one of our leaders in our Israel division
(34:29):
note that the US based spaces are not designed the
same way as their development center and that when their
folks visit US, they can't concentrate because we're noisy and
there's no noise reduction, the lighting isn't the same, and
that their centers are really designed around software developers and
(34:51):
the space that they need and ours aren't. And they're like,
why would you ever do that? And probably because no
one here thought about it when we were used to
the chaos and noise. Well, things have changed, so we
need to go and look at the physical design of
the spaces in light of the changes that have happened
(35:12):
in the employee's brains and emotions.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
One of the things I've come to in my own
research and my experience of consulting with companies as well
as what I like to say, that we've evolved quite
a bit through the pandemic. You know, it was a
you know, shared global heart attack. We all responded to it,
and it called a lot in US. And I think
we have grown in a lot of ways. And I
firmly believe that we have also evolved in our consciousness,
(35:41):
our requirements for civility and emotional intelligence in our relationships
and certainly at work, and it requires, you know, more
astute leadership all the way around. And so I liked
how you had actually said in one of our exchanges
that in the nineties we did architect workplaces for the physical,
accommodation for health, etc. And now accommodating creating a work
(36:03):
environment that really accommodates those mental emotional needs is a
whole different animal.
Speaker 4 (36:11):
Definitely, Particularly we know that COVID long COVID has created
an ADHD like reaction in people who didn't have it before,
people who do have ADHD have reported that it's worse,
(36:34):
and then even folks without that are telling you, I'm
just more sensitive to noise. So when you add all
that up, we've got way more people bothered by noise
and distraction than we did five years ago. But we
(36:55):
don't have more quiet spaces, more places to focus, more
square footage designated to help them do that. And we
have to address that if we want to continue to
be productive and to have employees who want to be there.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
Now, if we play out the ramifications feeling those experiences
that you just described well, I have to imagine, I
don't know what you've seen in the research, that we
have to see increased conflicts in the workplace, We have
to see probably increased health costs as we deal with
these things that are emerging. Any research on these fronts.
Speaker 4 (37:35):
I don't know that I've seen research on it, but hannecdotally,
I've seen people fighting over chairs and desks and the
few quiet rooms that are available, people turning in complaints.
I hold skip levels with my team and some of
(37:56):
the most frequent comments are, I can't find a place
to take a private call. Well, why why does the
guy next to me have a lunch that smells? You know,
Things that that they didn't complain about before. Yeah, they
bring up every single meeting now, and so the ramifications
(38:20):
are that they're going to keep complaining. Some of them
may quit just an unwillingness to deal right now.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
Mm hmmm. You know I want to This is where
I like to always, you know, give a shout out
and honor all of the managers and leaders out there.
You know, it's this is hard work these days, and
it's getting harder and harder to be an effective manager
and effective leader, and so you know it takes real skill,
It takes your own self care to handle this stuff,
(38:52):
and you know, patients, emotional intelligence, all this stuff. So
I just wanted to situate that that must be a
little bit trying at times.
Speaker 4 (39:02):
You know it is, but we do have some great leaders.
We have people who are trying to make it better,
and I think they will prevail. I certainly plan to
make it better for my people any way I can,
and I know my boss does. And that's what's important
is that we are trying, We are reading the research
(39:23):
and trying in any way that we can to overcome
these things that we didn't realize had happened.
Speaker 3 (39:34):
That's such an important conversation. You know. The other thing
I want a presence, which we've talked about many times
in this podcast, is you know, those individuals, those under
and twenty individuals that that are on your team, they
all go home to people and whatever their experiences, of
course has been impacted by what they experienced during the day.
And so when you think about just the sheer ripple
effect that we have as leaders in people's lives and
(39:55):
those families and then into their communities, I mean, it's
it's a really big deal. And get this right and
well is important.
Speaker 4 (40:03):
It really is either driving home. We don't want them
to have it wrect because they're frustrated, right, and then
it does multiply to their families, which then multiplies to
wherever they go the next way. It's huge.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
Yeah, yeah, So I really appreciate how thoughtful you're being
about this and how you're contributing to advance the conversation
on this. I'm here and of course, and you know,
back at your own company, I wanted to spend a
little bit of time here, Monica. You shared an article
with me that I thought was really powerful, and it
has four key factors to shaping team workplaces. But I
think it might be useful as we talk about how
(40:38):
can we actually create that, if not today, then future
workplace that really works more for people. I thought it
was really smart that it takes into consideration, you know
Carl Jume's four areas, you know that speak to the
fuller human being, if you would so, I'm not sure
how you want to go about that, but I would
love for us to hit each of those four core
(40:59):
factors and what they're trying to address.
Speaker 4 (41:02):
The way I looked at it and I thought it
was really well done to look at activities, emotions, how
do people collaborate, what is the purpose of them being together,
and how do you pull all that together? And it
(41:23):
was very intentional the way that they set that up.
Did you want to name each of them?
Speaker 3 (41:30):
Yeah, so let's just go through each one of them.
I've got some notes that I took from that. And
so the first area is knowing the individual behavioral self.
That's the thinking element of valuing's dynamic here. So thinking
about and considering the mental and intellectual activity involved for
subjective consciousness. So if you could speak a little bit
(41:50):
about you, how could a workplace or work policies support
that factor.
Speaker 4 (41:57):
So if you think about the comment that our manager
in Israel made about their workplaces being designed for software engineers,
that might be completely different than someone working in media
productions needs, right, because they need the quiet space to focus.
(42:19):
Media productions needs lights and sounds and the ability to
collaborate and pull in video feeds and things like that.
And that's completely different than what the guy in finance needs.
He needs the great big computer screen so he can
make his Excel spreadsheet bigger. I think you have to
look at what are they going to do. What are
(42:43):
the needs related probably to the personality of the person
who would want that job, as well as what it
takes to do that job and the physical structure of
the desk that would help them do it.
Speaker 3 (43:02):
Okay, very very interesting. When we get to a certain point,
I realized, I want to share a story. But let's
get to this next one. The number the second one
is becoming aware of the cognitive needs of the team.
We talked a little bit about that, but that, but
it also speaks to there's a space and that where
it's really speaking to the feeling element, the conscious subjective
experience of emotion. And of course that's my jam big time.
(43:25):
I mean, I'm for the whole total person, but so
much of what I'm doing today it's so interesting, Monica.
When I started working in this space, the skills that
I was helping develop were considered soft skills, and now
they're considered essential skills. And we're seeing more and more
of the need for the human element in the workplace
to be honored. So how how how might we address
(43:47):
and the workplace and the policies to be able to
suit and better support the emotional realm.
Speaker 4 (43:56):
You know, we find like with with gen Z. They
wanted to come to the office, but to be mentored,
not be in the office, right, And we found folks
my age when it came to return to office, didn't
want to come back just to sit there. I wanted
(44:18):
to have a purpose to be there, which probably was
mentoring the gen Z person. Because if it was just
to come back and sit on a zoom, that didn't
seem to make sense to me. And so I think
when we think about that emotional aspect, people need a
reason for why they're doing it, and we need to
(44:39):
structure the day to meet that emotional need for connection
and to give them structure that they see what role
they play and why what they're doing ties into the
greater goal of the company and the success so that
they feel valued needed.
Speaker 3 (45:01):
Yeah, this is totally my damn right here. So the
story I wanted to tell you really quick, and I
want to be sure and cover the other two before
we sign off. You'll be shocked, you know, to know that.
On the way to my storytelling class, I stopped into
the to the bar and had had something to drink
and eat. The two jo'nal were sitting next to me,
and I overheard them talking and they were talking about
having to come back to the office, and one of
(45:22):
them said, well, we all have to come back to
the office because the CEO said I need people around
me in order to be effective. So where we're going
to all wady back? And of course I piped up like, hey, Jason,
can I talk to you? You don't have a podcast
and we're going to be talking about this sort of thing.
And they were like so intrigued to know that this
was being discussed like this, and one the other guy said,
you know, we have a meeting and we were like
(45:43):
four miles from downtown, and he said, it's all the
way downtown. Why would it come all the way to
downtown fine parking to come to a half an hour
meeting that I can join on zoo. So it's been
so interesting. I think it's important that people, listeners and
viewers are aware of whatever style you prefer that you
opt in to, that you're not can policy choices and
decisions on you have all employees for your preferences, right,
(46:05):
this is so important.
Speaker 4 (46:07):
Or if you are, give them a reason why they
should do it.
Speaker 3 (46:14):
Yeah, yeah, So okay. In a third area here, the
team's trust belief and trust is the foundation of its
ability to contribute to the betterment of its purpose. You
kind of address that, but this gets to the intuitive
aspects that Carl you and talked about. So if you
can speak a little bit to that factor.
Speaker 4 (46:34):
I think our teams need to trust that we have
their best interests at heart, we have their backs, that
we're not asking for things we don't need, and that
we will take their needs into account. And so when
you read about Amazon not having enough desks, did that
(46:58):
take their needs into account in any way?
Speaker 3 (47:04):
Yeah. I don't know if you've heard about this, but
Jamie Diamond, the CEO of Chase, actually said I don't
care that many of the employees have signed a letter
that says we don't want to come back full time
to goop. He says, I don't care about that. That's
a really loud statement, man. That says a lot right there.
Speaker 4 (47:23):
Yeah, he apparently cursed and they called him out for that.
He did you see that. He's since come back and
apologized for cursing and walked his statement back.
Speaker 3 (47:31):
A little bit.
Speaker 4 (47:34):
He admitted some part of his workforce is allowed to
be remote because their job doesn't face the customer and
so he said he's not against all work from home,
that it should be role based. So he is walking
it back a little bit.
Speaker 3 (47:50):
Okay, that's good to know. That's good to I'm really
glad you brought that up. Let's get the last one
just to fill it out. You've already talked about it before.
But the last factor that was discussed here is the
sensory environment. Of course, that's the physical the sensory physical
feeling and perception, which you've alreay addressed with the Israeli
team and such. But if you wanted to say anything
more about that, well, I.
Speaker 4 (48:10):
Think it is partly designing for the type of job
they're doing. It's also a recognition, particularly for you know,
people like ADHD and just the brain change we all
went through that if we're more sensitive to noise or
lighting or things than we were five years ago, we
(48:31):
need to make some adjustments in the physical space to
help employees adjust to that or they will continue to fight.
Speaker 3 (48:40):
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Okay, and say thirty seconds, we've
already come read of the show. What would you like
to leave our listeners with that?
Speaker 4 (48:49):
We can make this transition, but it requires compassion and
collaboration and working together instead of against each.
Speaker 3 (48:59):
Other as a beautiful way of finish Monica, I can
get right behind that. I really appreciate meeting you and
you coming on to working on purpose. Thanks for joining
us today, Thanks for having me very welcome. Listeners and
viewers are going to want to connect with Monica and
the best way to do that is on LinkedIn. Her
profile name is Monica B. Like the letter B Mitchell.
(49:20):
Monica B Mitchell with two l's. At the end last week,
if you missed the Lin Show, you can always catch
a via recorded podcast. We were on air with Russell Wallerker,
an international speaker and the host producer of the Relationships
at Work podcast, The Guy into building workplace connections and
avoiding leadership blind spots. We talked about why definitions of
key terms like leadership and management are so important for
(49:41):
each company to do for themselves, and he gave us
seven roadblocks leaders unwittingly put in front of themselves that
get in the way of their own effectiveness. Next week
will be on there with Ross Blankenshik talking about his
book Everyday Leadership, which builds nicely on Russell's work to
develop your own leadership mindset, distinguishing what makes leaders effective,
on how to think systematically about organizations and teams. See
(50:04):
it and remember work is one of the best adventures
and means of realizing our potential and making the impact
we create and can give us the opportunity to do
business in a way that betters the world. So let's
work on Purpose.
Speaker 2 (50:16):
We hope you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure to
tune into Working on Purpose featuring your host, doctor Elise Cortes,
each week on W four C. Why Together, We'll create
a world where business operates conscientiously. Leadership inspires and passion
performance and employees are fulfilled in work that provides the
meaning and purpose they crave. See you there, Let's work
(50:38):
on Purpose.
The topics and opinions express in the following show are
solely those of the hosts and their guests, and not
those of W FOURCY Radio. It's employees are affiliates. We
make no recommendations or endorsements for radio show programs, services,
or products mentioned on air or on our web. No
liability explicitor implies shall be extended to W FOURCY Radio
or its employees are affiliates. Any questions or comments should
be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for choosing
(00:21):
W FOURCY Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
What's working on Purpose? Anyway? Each week we ponder the
answer to this question. People ache for meaning and purpose
at work, to contribute their talents passionately and know their
lives really matter. They crave being part of an organization
that inspires them and helps them grow into realizing their
highest potential. Business can be such a force for good
in the world, elevating humanity. In our program, we provide
(00:51):
guidance and inspiration to help usher in this world we
all want working on Purpose. Now here's your host, doctor
Elise Cortes.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Welcome back to your Working on Breakfast program, which has
been brought to you with passionate and pride since February
of twenty fifteen. Thanks for tuning and again this week.
Great to have you. I'm your host, Doctor Earlies Cortes,
and if we've not met before, I'm an organizational psychologist,
management consultant, logo therapist, a speaker and author. My team
and I at Gusto Now help companies to enliven and
fortify their operations by building a dynamic, high performance culture
(01:25):
and inspirational leadership activated by meaning and purpose. Did you
know that inspired employees outperform their satisfied peers by factor
of two point twenty five two one. In other words,
inspiration is good for the bottom line. You'll learn more
about us now. We can work together at gustodashnow dot
com or my personal site of these Couretes dot com.
Before we get into today's program, I'm thrilled to announce
that registration is open for a fabulous to in conference
(01:47):
for women for which I'll serve as the MC. It's
called Thrive in twenty five and a jam packed few
days in Chicago June twenty fifth to the twenty eight,
twenty twenty five designed to develop women as whole selves,
from bolstering your mindset to your financial acumen, to leadership,
to incorporating nature and art into your life, to your
ways of consciousness, and much more. You can visit thrive
(02:07):
in twenty five for information and to register. Use my
promo code of Gusto all caps to gain access to
different books and programs. I'll be giving registrants as well.
See you there today. With us is Monica Mitchell, who
has built a thirty year career at AT and T,
where she moved seven times. Today she leads an organization
of one hundred and twenty employees that manages a thirty
(02:27):
billion dollars software development portfolio. She also leads the Agile,
CYOE and Change leadership team that is passionate about employee
development and mentoring and making real transformation happen. We'll be
talking about how the workforce has changed in the last
few years and how we can design a workplace that
meets the needs and wants of today and tomorrow's workforce.
To jo to today from Dallas, Monica, Welcome to Working
(02:48):
on Purpose.
Speaker 4 (02:50):
Thank you, I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
It's fun, you know soon to d that too. I
was like, she's hopelessly wickets smart. I know we could
have a very intelligent conversation when you totally you're working
on a PhD. My I totally have to talk to her.
So let's start there. Remind me what you're studying in
your PhD?
Speaker 4 (03:05):
And where working on? A Doctor of Business Administration with
William Howard Taft University out of Denver, Okay.
Speaker 3 (03:16):
And why do we do this? You know there, you've
got a family, You've got a big career. I mean,
why did this is?
Speaker 5 (03:21):
What?
Speaker 3 (03:21):
You know we did call this crazy making manica?
Speaker 4 (03:24):
Yeah, it really is.
Speaker 5 (03:25):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (03:25):
No. I took a job a few years back with
AT and T leading something we called flex Force and
tended to have hundreds of our college new hires or
people three to ten years in the company, and they
wanted mentorship and guidance on their career. And I learned
(03:50):
that that was one of my favorite jobs and that
teaching them what I had learned over twenty to thirty
years was very for filling. And I started looking at
the breadth and depth of my career and all the
opportunities that this great company had given me. And you know,
(04:11):
I've done landline, wireless video, participated in the iPad, the iPhone,
these industry changing things and when you go to business schools,
the Harvard Business Cases and all of those at and
T is in every textbook, and I thought, I have
(04:31):
lived this, and who better to teach rising business students
than somebody who was there. But I didn't have the
credential to break into teaching. So sitting at home during
the pandemic, why not get online degree so that I
can go and share all of this wealth of experience
(04:54):
with young people who are really wanting to know brilliant.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
I love that. And I know we talked about your dissertation,
but remind me what you want to research or are researching.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
I'm researching the impact of return to office on really employees,
and that can be anything from financial to what they
need to make it worth it to them to come
back to the office and put all that effort in.
And you know there are a number of things they
(05:26):
need besides just financial economic benefits, which I think we're
going to talk about a little bit today.
Speaker 3 (05:32):
Yeah, for sure, I love that. That's right, exactly right, Okay.
I mean I loved my pursuing on my PhD, and
I love teaching as well, so you know I'm already
already in sync with you. Okay, So one of the
things I thought was interesting about in an article that
I read was it was talking about, of course, you know,
they've been going through through the pandemic and coming to
understand it and so doing we had been through a
(05:53):
car crash together. We've survived a car crash. It was
so there's so many things about that. So I want
this first part of our conversation to stitch kind of
you know, we knew humans and where we've come from
the last few years. So one of the things I've
noticed is that it's very hard now today to get
people to come out for any kind of events. I
don't care if you're offering them food, drink, it's free.
(06:15):
It's just people. Prying people out of their homes has
been hard. What have you noticed around just the socialization
aspect since the pandemic.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
You know, when we all got sent home, it was hard.
As a manager. I had to plan virtual happy hours
and lunches because my people felt so disconnected and trapped
in their homes and they didn't know how to act.
And we were doing that once twice a week just
(06:46):
to help them adjust. Well, over time, they did adjust
and we went to once a month and then they
didn't need it at all, right, And then we asked
them to come back, and they're like, I could get
sick if I come back. And we finally get them
back and they're telling us they're physically and emotionally uncomfortable. Yeah,
(07:10):
it's not only the car crash of the pandemic. There's
a car crash to coming back and what's causing that.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
Yeah, and I want to definitely cover that when we
get into the second part of this conversation. One of
the things that I'm also present to is and I
noticed it too. I have been working from home for
years in might for my business. But what people began
to notice is how much time they had spent in
that commute. And I remember a conversation Monica when there
(07:39):
was a discussion or at least some articles being floated about,
is should could people actually consider their commute time as
part of their workday because they recognized how much and
up to ninety minutes two hours a day in commute time.
Now that could be repurposed if you're actually not going
to the office.
Speaker 4 (07:54):
And in fact, many people did work extra hours because
they can get out of bed go straight to their computer.
As we asked them to come back. We are seeing
some drops in productivity because they're back on the road.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Interesting. That's very interesting.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
You know.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
One of the other things that I was present to
and I wrote about it in my first book Purpose
Ignited It Behind Me, which came out of November in
twenty twenty, is I really also discovered in my research
that during the pandemic, when people had all that quote
down time, or at least alone time, it took stock
of their lives and they thought about what they really wanted,
and a lot of people found their overall lives and
their work lives less than what they wanted. They didn't
(08:37):
want to go back to the streaming boss. They didn't
want to go back to work that maybe wasn't just
fulfilling or interesting. So already we had this notion of
people saying, huh, you know, I think I'm going to
go ahead and leave this industry now. And so curious,
what kind of research have you come across in terms
of how people have reevaluated their lives and their work.
Speaker 4 (08:56):
I think they not only reevaluated their lives and their works.
I think to some degree, employers brought this on themselves, right,
we sold building saved money, even boasted that we didn't
see ever going back to the way things were. We
(09:18):
got an increase in productivity because people were spending all
that drive time working, and we weren't counting on the
lack of collaboration and innovation that may come with that
because we didn't see that at first. We just saw
the productivity that we were getting and the money that
we were saving by not paying electric bills and getting
(09:39):
rid of buildings and making those statements to employees. They
believed us, We're never going back, and so some of
them said, I could live further away from the office
and save money on my mortgage. They did. Some of
them moved to another state to take care of an
aging parent or to be near grandchildren because they believed us.
(10:05):
Now we ask them to come back. That's a major
life decision, particularly if the company doesn't want to fund it, right,
And so, Yeah, in addition to anything just about the
cost of living or the cost of gas, or the
time you spend on the road. People who made those
(10:25):
adjustments to take care of real life issues, it's a
real inconvenience to them.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
Yeah. I had a great conversation a couple of weeks ago.
I think I told you about it with my Nam Maranas,
who wrote a book called The Flexibility Paradigm. She has
some incredible research in there about flexibility and hybrid and
all sorts of things. And one of the things that
she said is that really struck me is that, you know,
when we don't know, kind of make work more accessible
(10:52):
for people, what we're actually really doing at the end
of the day is we're limiting their potential. And that
really got me, you know, as somebody who's help for
you know, to be able to unleash people to their
passion and their purpose and create a destination workplace. So
just what you're saying is kind of speaking to that,
and I think it's another sort of surrounded sound point
(11:12):
on the matter.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
Exactly. There is a researcher out of Stanford who did
some work showing that we hired more disabled people during
the pandemic telework and that return to office may in
fact disadvantage them because they can't come in.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Yeah, I've also seen some research on that too, and
that also came up in one's book as well. And
then the other thing that I that I think is
really interesting in terms of you know, right now we're
just sort of presencing the new kind of the new workforce,
the new human that emerged from this the pandemic. We
went through other changes in the workplace. But the other
phenomenon that I'm seeing that I'm finding really really interested in,
(11:59):
which having lived abroad myself in my twenties, is so
many people are moving to other countries altogether. I personally
know for people alone who have moved to Portugal. So
this this is so interesting. And then I met a
gentleman who founded an organization here in Dallas called Work Exploring.
Now what they do is they specialize in helping support
companies who offer remote work to other people around the
(12:21):
globe as a part of their draw for work, as
a perk for the work. You know, I'm stationed in Greece.
You know, my company supports that kind of thing or
whatever it is. So I'm interested in your perspective whatever
you've seen on the mobility that that's emerged after the pandemic.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
There is great talent in some other countries. There's also
been some research on could we use remote work to
help underdeveloped areas bring up their economic value by letting
some of these jobs move into places that we could
(13:00):
put some infrastructure and bring up really the value of
their economies by letting them have this higher paying work.
I think there's a lot of global advantage to allowing
some of us to move there and help bring some
of those economies kind of into the twenty first century,
if you will, and a lot of value to it
(13:23):
if we would explore it.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
You know. Of course, you know that seems to my
soul because I'm a conscious capitalist and really I believe
in the power of business to lift the world. I
believe in that. So that is a beautiful point for me.
And then the other side of that occurs to me
is that by having someone on in your workforce that's
in these different countries, maybe you learn something more about
you will and something more about those cultures, and maybe
(13:46):
that's another way for you to develop a greater customer
base there, or improve the customer base that you already
have there. So and of course, as somebody who believes
in the power of learning from other cultures, that's where
my company is called Gusto now because it means the
same thing in the English, Spanish and Portuguese exuberance, excitement, zeal,
which is what I'm trying to help organizations impart into
(14:08):
their culture. So that is a very very interesting idea
to me that I know, I want to explore more.
If you learn more about that, I want to know.
It just means we have to have lunch. That's all, Monica. Okay, well,
let's grab our first break. I'm your host, Doctor Lee's Cortes.
We've been on the air with Monica Mitchell, who leads
(14:29):
an organization of one hundred and twenty employees that manages
at AT and T, that manages a three billion dollar
software development portfolio. We've been talking about how it is
that she got into the space of really trying to
understand the impact return to office and her interest in
seeing how we can create the workforce of the future.
Will be right back.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Doctor Elise Cortes is a management consultant specializing in meaning
and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author, she helps companies
visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired
leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and
commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite
a lease to speak to your organization, please visit her
(15:26):
at elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get
your employees working on purpose. This is working on Purpose
with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today or
to open a conversation with Elise, send an email to
Elise alisee at elisecortes dot com. Now back to working
(15:50):
on purpose.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
Thanks for staning with us. Are welcome back to working
on purpose. I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortes, as I
am dedicated to hopen the create a world where people
realize the potential at work, are led by inspirational leaders
that help them find and contribute their greatness, and we
do business that betters the world. I continue to research
and write my own books, so my last one came
out in twenty twenty three. It's called a Great Revitalization.
How activating meaning and purpose can radically enliven your business.
(16:18):
And I wanted to help leaders understand that today's workforce
what is it they want to need? Much like what
we're having in this conversation, and then I offer twenty
two best prejudices to equip them to provide that in
their leadership and their culture. You can find my books
on Amazon or check them out on my website at
least core test dot com if you are just now
joining us. My guest is Monica Mitchell, who, in addition
to leading her software development team one hundred and twenty
(16:39):
people at AT and T, also leads the Agile Centers
of Excellence and Change Leadership. It was passionate about team
employee development and mentoring and making real transformation happen. Sounds
good to me. So one of the reasons I totally
wanted to have you on that program, you might recall,
is when you just sort of mentioned, matter of factly
that part of what had happened during the pandemic is
(17:01):
that our brains had been rewired. Let's talk about that.
That's pretty fascinating.
Speaker 4 (17:06):
Absolutely, before we went home for the pandemic, we were
used to the open office concept, noise. I had people
lined up outside my door to ask questions. I was
used to the interruptions. I maybe had to bring my
laptop home for focused work like writing appraisals or whatever
(17:29):
because I needed alone time. But I was used to
that interaction and noise and chaos at work. I expected it,
I even maybe thrived on it. I came home in
March of twenty twenty and like my employees, I felt
a little lost alone. It was quiet. I was trapped
(17:51):
in the four walls of my house, and as I
mentioned earlier, we sat up the virtual lunches and happy
hours so that we could all feel some connection. And
over time I adjusted to the quiet and the piece
and that I could focus and get a lot of
work done a lot faster. And then when we started
(18:16):
return to office, it was only one or two days
a week, and so I would go in and I
enjoyed the social but I would leave all of the
focus work for the days I wasn't going in, and
so that was okay. But I would notice that if
I was working at home and some of my employees
were in the office, I would be like, can't you
go find a quiet room? All those people walking behind you,
(18:40):
talking behind you is distracting me. You know, as you mentioned,
I have the Agile Center of Excellence. They coach and
teach agility. Their students would complain when they were doing
a virtual class if people were walking behind them or
making noise because it was distracting, and so we had
to tell them on the days you're teaching a home
(19:01):
it's bothering your students. And the question was, why does
this bother us? It didn't bother us before, and so
I started reading research and looking into it. What is
it that's going on? And there is some research that
all that quiet and the sudden change of the pandemic
literally our brains are able to adapt, and they did
(19:27):
very well. They love the quiet, and going back is
now giving us that same car crash pain and need
to adjust, and people are resisting it the same way
we resisted coming home because it's emotionally disturbing. You know.
Speaker 3 (19:47):
It's one of the many things I love. The reasons
I keep hosting this podcast after ten years because I
always learned something significant from each of my guests, and
what you've helped me with that as well, Monica, because
I just assumed that I had just become or of
an introvert during the pandemic. So that's personality, not brain function,
and I can completely see that I do. I'm very
(20:08):
spooked by noises. Somebody slams that the cupboard in the
locker room of my gym, I jump out of my
out of my chair. So now we're starting to see
in some of those significant distractions are disrupting focus and
ampering productivity. And what I find really fascinating is, you know,
during the pendemic, there was this big focus on well being,
and now it's like, oh, I don't think we're really
(20:31):
talking about that right now. If we cared about well being,
I think there would be a different approach to how
people are coming back to the office exactly.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
And really, our offices are designed for nineteen ninety nine
two thousand and the chaos that we were used to.
We don't have enough noise dampening devices. We don't have
enough focus rooms or places you can do a private
chat or deep thought, and so you're bringing in people
(21:05):
with a changed brain who are more sensitive to it.
I've had employees tell me that their ADHD got worse
over the pandemic, which may actually be a side effect
of COVID, you know. And then they have this brain
change where they got used to the quiet, and they're saying,
I can't focus, I'm having trouble getting my work done
and there's no quiet place to sit. That's going to
(21:29):
have a huge impact on productivity and your overall well
being because then they begin to think, is my job
at risk if I can't get it done?
Speaker 3 (21:38):
Yeah, for sure, you're reminding me. You know, I remember
when I moved from I had a corner office for
a job that I was working at in Elite nineteen nineties,
and then I came in as a consultant to T
Mobile at that time to help them really develop their
recruiting department. We were in a big bullpen kind of environment,
which was I just hated it because I would sneeze
(21:59):
and somebody whom well on the other end of the
room would say, bless you, and I felt so invaded.
My privacy felt so invaded. I did get used to it,
but it just really you're reminding me of this. And
what I think is interesting too, is I noticed in
one of the articles that you shared with me, the
research from the University of California at Irvine found that
(22:20):
employees and pubicles received twenty nine percent more interruptions than
those in private offices, leading to the high rates of exhaustion,
et cetera. And I think it's just if you are
losing I know, I read one that said you could
lose three to five hours of productive time every day
due to people dropping in or unwanted questions or people
just board just need to connect kind of thing. That's
(22:41):
a lot of.
Speaker 4 (22:42):
Time, it is, and then you add to the time
in traffic, how much time are you losing that you
previously spent just focusing.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Yeah. I liked also this idea here, you know, if
those organizations that have managed to really embrace flexible and
hybrid sort of options, I like the idea that you
know that that there's evidence that allows people to do
their best work in the office and that's when of
the most effective, and to be able to focus at home.
So then the idea that allowing them the employee, the
(23:17):
employees to do their focused work, their individual walk at home,
like you've been saying, where they have control of their
environment and minimize their distructions. But then the office becomes
a hub of collaboration and nuanced conversations, mentoring, on the
job training, socializing. That's a really nice mix, it.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
Is and I think necessary. Our chief technology officer you know,
recently said there are going to be days when your
work is so focused you need to stay home most
of the time. We want you in the office collaborating, mentoring,
having purposeful meetings, but we understand there are going to
(23:53):
be days life happens you need to be at home
because there's a repairment coming or given you and assignment
that's really difficult, and I need you to focus on it.
And you know, I think the individual supervisors have to
have the authority to make that adjustment so that the
real work can be done in the right way.
Speaker 3 (24:15):
Yeah. One of the other articles that I came across
that I thought was really really interesting, and I'm pretty
sure that you saw it really be ensured it with me,
but I thought it was interesting. There was somebody named
Thomas Carmichael, professor and chair of the Neurology Department at
UCLA David Geffen's School of Medicine. He mentioned in an
(24:38):
article our brains are like flatbyt biceps and suggests that
we should make ourselves work from the office more often
to strengthen those flatby biceps. And then, of course there's
some counter to that, so I'd be interested in maybe
you're sort of your counter perspective on putting the owners
fully on the employee to deal with that adaptation.
Speaker 4 (24:58):
I don't think we should the onus fully on the employee.
I think we have to recognize that a we have
less office space than we did and if we want
a full return to office, we may have to increase
our footprint so that there's enough space. And b that
the offices we have were designed for people who were
(25:21):
emotionally wired differently and there was an impact to the
pandemic that we can't erase. Right, So we need to
design workspaces that allow the people who are coming back
with the limitations and changes that have happened to them
to function. And if they need more private spaces, more
(25:45):
places where they can focus, sound dampening surfaces and partitions,
if that's what they need to be able to both
collaborate and focus, then the onus is on the company
to provide that good work environment that allows the employee
(26:07):
to be productive and successful.
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Mm hmm. I think that's really really interesting. And and
then we get into you know, this notion of return
on experience and for the for the time and the
effort that it that it takes to come into the office.
You know, seeing more and more discussion around well, how
do we provide a return on the experience for that?
(26:31):
And so can you talk a little bit about you know,
you say you do something to accommodate the employee, but
when we do ask them to come into the office,
you know, what can we do for them to encourage
and reward that.
Speaker 4 (26:42):
You know, I think one of the reasons that some
of the hybrid arrangements didn't seem successful is there was
no structure yeap what people came in whatever day they
wanted and none of their team members are there, and
so they would they would say, I'm coming in to
sit on a teams or a zoom by myself, just
(27:05):
like I did at home. What was the purpose? I
think you have to design both the workspace and the
structure of the day so that people are with the
people they need to collaborate with, and you've structured the
meetings and the exercises in a way that they feel
like they're getting something out of it. That means structured mentoring,
(27:27):
giving people work buddies, things, meaningful experiences.
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Yeah. My nam Morolani's talked about that too. So she's
she's really putting forth and she's got a whole you know,
five step process that she helps companies go through to
embrace a flexibility culture. The part of it is it's
it's it's structures, it's strategy and structure, she says. You know,
so you've got a strategy for flexibility why are you
(27:53):
doing this? I was supporting your business objectives, et cetera.
And then the actual strategy to carry it out, which
was and hold up that structure is what we talked
about a couple of weeks ago. I really it was
incredible to discover her work. I had another question. I
want to ask you on that just a second. Yeah,
(28:15):
So when it comes to when it comes to how
people are interacting in this new environment, one of the
things that I'm trying to put forth is why aren't
we embracing more of the possibility here. I know it's
so much easier to think you can go back, let's
just go back to the way things work because we
know that, But there's such an opportunity here to you know,
(28:35):
enlarge ourselves and how we think about these things, how
we approach these things and do more, being more and
therefore have more and when we work to go beyond
you know, just what we knew from the past, any
research ideas that you've seen about what it's taking to
kind of pull more leaders up into this new or
higher thinking realm.
Speaker 4 (28:55):
Well, I think first we didn't know the backlash went
are going to get because we didn't understand that people's
brains were rewired, and that it was really going to
be an emotional event. Right now that we're seeing that,
I think the researchers are coming forward with the information
(29:16):
that managers need to realize they've got to do things differently.
But this is just just now hitting the research journals
and management journals that people can read to realize we've
got to do it different There's actually a reason you're
getting this reaction, and here's how you need to react
(29:37):
to it. We may take another year and a half
to actually react to that, because that's typically how it works.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
Yeah, that's you know. The reason I'm an organizational psychologist, Monk,
is because I believe in the wonder power and nobility
of work, and I believe it in a way that
helps us realize our potential if we do it well,
and we can do business that better the world. So
I'm dedicated to being part of, you know, the cadre
of people that are working together to usher in a
(30:08):
world of work that works for everybody. I just don't
want to wait for a year and a half, monthing.
Speaker 5 (30:12):
I really know, you know, And I read the headlines
like Amazon doesn't have enough desks for the people coming back, right,
and you wonder it's a math exercise.
Speaker 4 (30:25):
Right it is?
Speaker 3 (30:26):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (30:28):
How hard is that? I don't know?
Speaker 3 (30:30):
Yeah, yeah. So so I'm just very very happy that
I found you and your research. A PERSONA did more
about that. We'll stay in touch, but let's let's grab
our last break here, one more segment that I want
to talk about how we can architect today and tomorrow's workplace.
We've been in the air with Monica Mitchell, who leads
(30:51):
an organization of one hundred and twenty employees that manages
a three hundred three billion dollars software development portfolio, among
many of the things. I am ELISEE. Cortez, and we've
been talking just recently about how our brains have been
required during the pandemic. Out of the right, we're going
to talk about the future.
Speaker 5 (31:07):
Be right back.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Doctor Elise Cortes is a management consultant specializing in meaning
and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author, she helps companies
visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired
leadership and meaning imfused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and
commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite
Elise to speak to your organization, please visit her at
(31:45):
elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get your
employees working on purpose. This is working on Purpose with
doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today or to
open a conversation with Elise, send an email to a
lease ALISEE at eliscortes dot com. Now back to working
(32:09):
on purpose.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
Thanks for Jane with us, and welcome back to working
on Purpose. I'm your host, doctor at Least Cortes. I
mentioned in the last break that my latest book came
out in twenty twenty three, The Great Vitalization. What he
did for you is I created a free three page
organizational assessment. You can learn the extent to which your
company's leadership and culture meets the standards of today's discerning workforce.
You can find it on my website gustodashnow dot com
(32:37):
if you are just joining us. My guest is Monica Mitchell, who,
in addition to leading her software development team of one
entred and twenty at AT and T, also leads the
Agile Center of Excellence. Change leadership is passionate about team
employee development and mentoring and making real transformation happen. So
for this last segment here, I wanted to get your perspective,
your thoughts, your research, what you've seen on how we
(32:57):
can architect the workforce, the work place for today's and
tomorrows employees. You had mentioned in one of our exchanges
that we for us to be able to create that
this vision of destination workplaces and such, we actually have
to create an architect something very different. So let's talk
about that. Let me just let you respond to that,
and then I have a few pepperwine questions.
Speaker 4 (33:20):
Sure, when I was working on my bachelor's degree, which
is in industrial engineering, I studied ergonomics, how to design
a workplace that was centered around the body and safety
and health. Flash forward thirty years. We not only need
(33:46):
a workplace that thinks about the physical and ergonomics, we
now have research that shows the pandemic altered our brains
and how we emotion react and behave, and the workplace
now has to take that into account. If we want
(34:07):
people to be productive and perform at their highest potential,
we need activity based spaces where if they need to collaborate,
there's room for them to do that. They need to focus.
There needs to be a place for them to do that.
We had one of our leaders in our Israel division
(34:29):
note that the US based spaces are not designed the
same way as their development center and that when their
folks visit US, they can't concentrate because we're noisy and
there's no noise reduction, the lighting isn't the same, and
that their centers are really designed around software developers and
(34:51):
the space that they need and ours aren't. And they're like,
why would you ever do that? And probably because no
one here thought about it when we were used to
the chaos and noise. Well, things have changed, so we
need to go and look at the physical design of
the spaces in light of the changes that have happened
(35:12):
in the employee's brains and emotions.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
One of the things I've come to in my own
research and my experience of consulting with companies as well
as what I like to say, that we've evolved quite
a bit through the pandemic. You know, it was a
you know, shared global heart attack. We all responded to it,
and it called a lot in US. And I think
we have grown in a lot of ways. And I
firmly believe that we have also evolved in our consciousness,
(35:41):
our requirements for civility and emotional intelligence in our relationships
and certainly at work, and it requires, you know, more
astute leadership all the way around. And so I liked
how you had actually said in one of our exchanges
that in the nineties we did architect workplaces for the physical,
accommodation for health, etc. And now accommodating creating a work
(36:03):
environment that really accommodates those mental emotional needs is a
whole different animal.
Speaker 4 (36:11):
Definitely, Particularly we know that COVID long COVID has created
an ADHD like reaction in people who didn't have it before,
people who do have ADHD have reported that it's worse,
(36:34):
and then even folks without that are telling you, I'm
just more sensitive to noise. So when you add all
that up, we've got way more people bothered by noise
and distraction than we did five years ago. But we
(36:55):
don't have more quiet spaces, more places to focus, more
square footage designated to help them do that. And we
have to address that if we want to continue to
be productive and to have employees who want to be there.
Speaker 3 (37:13):
Now, if we play out the ramifications feeling those experiences
that you just described well, I have to imagine, I
don't know what you've seen in the research, that we
have to see increased conflicts in the workplace, We have
to see probably increased health costs as we deal with
these things that are emerging. Any research on these fronts.
Speaker 4 (37:35):
I don't know that I've seen research on it, but hannecdotally,
I've seen people fighting over chairs and desks and the
few quiet rooms that are available, people turning in complaints.
I hold skip levels with my team and some of
(37:56):
the most frequent comments are, I can't find a place
to take a private call. Well, why why does the
guy next to me have a lunch that smells? You know,
Things that that they didn't complain about before. Yeah, they
bring up every single meeting now, and so the ramifications
(38:20):
are that they're going to keep complaining. Some of them
may quit just an unwillingness to deal right now.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
Mm hmmm. You know I want to This is where
I like to always, you know, give a shout out
and honor all of the managers and leaders out there.
You know, it's this is hard work these days, and
it's getting harder and harder to be an effective manager
and effective leader, and so you know it takes real skill,
It takes your own self care to handle this stuff,
(38:52):
and you know, patients, emotional intelligence, all this stuff. So
I just wanted to situate that that must be a
little bit trying at times.
Speaker 4 (39:02):
You know it is, but we do have some great leaders.
We have people who are trying to make it better,
and I think they will prevail. I certainly plan to
make it better for my people any way I can,
and I know my boss does. And that's what's important
is that we are trying, We are reading the research
(39:23):
and trying in any way that we can to overcome
these things that we didn't realize had happened.
Speaker 3 (39:34):
That's such an important conversation. You know. The other thing
I want a presence, which we've talked about many times
in this podcast, is you know, those individuals, those under
and twenty individuals that that are on your team, they
all go home to people and whatever their experiences, of
course has been impacted by what they experienced during the day.
And so when you think about just the sheer ripple
effect that we have as leaders in people's lives and
(39:55):
those families and then into their communities, I mean, it's
it's a really big deal. And get this right and
well is important.
Speaker 4 (40:03):
It really is either driving home. We don't want them
to have it wrect because they're frustrated, right, and then
it does multiply to their families, which then multiplies to
wherever they go the next way. It's huge.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
Yeah, yeah, So I really appreciate how thoughtful you're being
about this and how you're contributing to advance the conversation
on this. I'm here and of course, and you know,
back at your own company, I wanted to spend a
little bit of time here, Monica. You shared an article
with me that I thought was really powerful, and it
has four key factors to shaping team workplaces. But I
think it might be useful as we talk about how
(40:38):
can we actually create that, if not today, then future
workplace that really works more for people. I thought it
was really smart that it takes into consideration, you know
Carl Jume's four areas, you know that speak to the
fuller human being, if you would so, I'm not sure
how you want to go about that, but I would
love for us to hit each of those four core
(40:59):
factors and what they're trying to address.
Speaker 4 (41:02):
The way I looked at it and I thought it
was really well done to look at activities, emotions, how
do people collaborate, what is the purpose of them being together,
and how do you pull all that together? And it
(41:23):
was very intentional the way that they set that up.
Did you want to name each of them?
Speaker 3 (41:30):
Yeah, so let's just go through each one of them.
I've got some notes that I took from that. And
so the first area is knowing the individual behavioral self.
That's the thinking element of valuing's dynamic here. So thinking
about and considering the mental and intellectual activity involved for
subjective consciousness. So if you could speak a little bit
(41:50):
about you, how could a workplace or work policies support
that factor.
Speaker 4 (41:57):
So if you think about the comment that our manager
in Israel made about their workplaces being designed for software engineers,
that might be completely different than someone working in media
productions needs, right, because they need the quiet space to focus.
(42:19):
Media productions needs lights and sounds and the ability to
collaborate and pull in video feeds and things like that.
And that's completely different than what the guy in finance needs.
He needs the great big computer screen so he can
make his Excel spreadsheet bigger. I think you have to
look at what are they going to do. What are
(42:43):
the needs related probably to the personality of the person
who would want that job, as well as what it
takes to do that job and the physical structure of
the desk that would help them do it.
Speaker 3 (43:02):
Okay, very very interesting. When we get to a certain point,
I realized, I want to share a story. But let's
get to this next one. The number the second one
is becoming aware of the cognitive needs of the team.
We talked a little bit about that, but that, but
it also speaks to there's a space and that where
it's really speaking to the feeling element, the conscious subjective
experience of emotion. And of course that's my jam big time.
(43:25):
I mean, I'm for the whole total person, but so
much of what I'm doing today it's so interesting, Monica.
When I started working in this space, the skills that
I was helping develop were considered soft skills, and now
they're considered essential skills. And we're seeing more and more
of the need for the human element in the workplace
to be honored. So how how how might we address
(43:47):
and the workplace and the policies to be able to
suit and better support the emotional realm.
Speaker 4 (43:56):
You know, we find like with with gen Z. They
wanted to come to the office, but to be mentored,
not be in the office, right, And we found folks
my age when it came to return to office, didn't
want to come back just to sit there. I wanted
(44:18):
to have a purpose to be there, which probably was
mentoring the gen Z person. Because if it was just
to come back and sit on a zoom, that didn't
seem to make sense to me. And so I think
when we think about that emotional aspect, people need a
reason for why they're doing it, and we need to
(44:39):
structure the day to meet that emotional need for connection
and to give them structure that they see what role
they play and why what they're doing ties into the
greater goal of the company and the success so that
they feel valued needed.
Speaker 3 (45:01):
Yeah, this is totally my damn right here. So the
story I wanted to tell you really quick, and I
want to be sure and cover the other two before
we sign off. You'll be shocked, you know, to know that.
On the way to my storytelling class, I stopped into
the to the bar and had had something to drink
and eat. The two jo'nal were sitting next to me,
and I overheard them talking and they were talking about
having to come back to the office, and one of
(45:22):
them said, well, we all have to come back to
the office because the CEO said I need people around
me in order to be effective. So where we're going
to all wady back? And of course I piped up like, hey, Jason,
can I talk to you? You don't have a podcast
and we're going to be talking about this sort of thing.
And they were like so intrigued to know that this
was being discussed like this, and one the other guy said,
you know, we have a meeting and we were like
(45:43):
four miles from downtown, and he said, it's all the
way downtown. Why would it come all the way to
downtown fine parking to come to a half an hour
meeting that I can join on zoo. So it's been
so interesting. I think it's important that people, listeners and
viewers are aware of whatever style you prefer that you
opt in to, that you're not can policy choices and
decisions on you have all employees for your preferences, right,
(46:05):
this is so important.
Speaker 4 (46:07):
Or if you are, give them a reason why they
should do it.
Speaker 3 (46:14):
Yeah, yeah, So okay. In a third area here, the
team's trust belief and trust is the foundation of its
ability to contribute to the betterment of its purpose. You
kind of address that, but this gets to the intuitive
aspects that Carl you and talked about. So if you
can speak a little bit to that factor.
Speaker 4 (46:34):
I think our teams need to trust that we have
their best interests at heart, we have their backs, that
we're not asking for things we don't need, and that
we will take their needs into account. And so when
you read about Amazon not having enough desks, did that
(46:58):
take their needs into account in any way?
Speaker 3 (47:04):
Yeah. I don't know if you've heard about this, but
Jamie Diamond, the CEO of Chase, actually said I don't
care that many of the employees have signed a letter
that says we don't want to come back full time
to goop. He says, I don't care about that. That's
a really loud statement, man. That says a lot right there.
Speaker 4 (47:23):
Yeah, he apparently cursed and they called him out for that.
He did you see that. He's since come back and
apologized for cursing and walked his statement back.
Speaker 3 (47:31):
A little bit.
Speaker 4 (47:34):
He admitted some part of his workforce is allowed to
be remote because their job doesn't face the customer and
so he said he's not against all work from home,
that it should be role based. So he is walking
it back a little bit.
Speaker 3 (47:50):
Okay, that's good to know. That's good to I'm really
glad you brought that up. Let's get the last one
just to fill it out. You've already talked about it before.
But the last factor that was discussed here is the
sensory environment. Of course, that's the physical the sensory physical
feeling and perception, which you've alreay addressed with the Israeli
team and such. But if you wanted to say anything
more about that, well, I.
Speaker 4 (48:10):
Think it is partly designing for the type of job
they're doing. It's also a recognition, particularly for you know,
people like ADHD and just the brain change we all
went through that if we're more sensitive to noise or
lighting or things than we were five years ago, we
(48:31):
need to make some adjustments in the physical space to
help employees adjust to that or they will continue to fight.
Speaker 3 (48:40):
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Okay, and say thirty seconds, we've
already come read of the show. What would you like
to leave our listeners with that?
Speaker 4 (48:49):
We can make this transition, but it requires compassion and
collaboration and working together instead of against each.
Speaker 3 (48:59):
Other as a beautiful way of finish Monica, I can
get right behind that. I really appreciate meeting you and
you coming on to working on purpose. Thanks for joining
us today, Thanks for having me very welcome. Listeners and
viewers are going to want to connect with Monica and
the best way to do that is on LinkedIn. Her
profile name is Monica B. Like the letter B Mitchell.
(49:20):
Monica B Mitchell with two l's. At the end last week,
if you missed the Lin Show, you can always catch
a via recorded podcast. We were on air with Russell Wallerker,
an international speaker and the host producer of the Relationships
at Work podcast, The Guy into building workplace connections and
avoiding leadership blind spots. We talked about why definitions of
key terms like leadership and management are so important for
(49:41):
each company to do for themselves, and he gave us
seven roadblocks leaders unwittingly put in front of themselves that
get in the way of their own effectiveness. Next week
will be on there with Ross Blankenshik talking about his
book Everyday Leadership, which builds nicely on Russell's work to
develop your own leadership mindset, distinguishing what makes leaders effective,
on how to think systematically about organizations and teams. See
(50:04):
it and remember work is one of the best adventures
and means of realizing our potential and making the impact
we create and can give us the opportunity to do
business in a way that betters the world. So let's
work on Purpose.
Speaker 2 (50:16):
We hope you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure to
tune into Working on Purpose featuring your host, doctor Elise Cortes,
each week on W four C. Why Together, We'll create
a world where business operates conscientiously. Leadership inspires and passion
performance and employees are fulfilled in work that provides the
meaning and purpose they crave. See you there, Let's work
(50:38):
on Purpose.
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