February 18, 2025 • 45 mins
Trust is the foundation of great leadership—but too often, leaders unknowingly create barriers that weaken connection and impact. In this episode, Russel Lolacher shares how clear leadership definitions, intentional time investment, and trust-driven strategies can transform workplace relationships. We’ll explore the seven roadblocks leaders put in their own way, how to enhance clarity and impact at work, and why time is the most valuable gift we can offer our teams.
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Working on Purpose is broadcast live Tuesdays at 6PM ET and Music on W4CY Radio (www.w4cy.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Working on Purpose is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
Working on Purpose Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The topics and opinions express in the following show are
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(00:20):
choosing W FOURCY Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
What's working on Purpose? Anyway? Each week we ponder the
answer to this question. People ache for meaning and purpose
at work, to contribute their talents passionately and know their
lives really matter. They crave being part of an organization
that inspires them and helps them grow into realizing their
highest potential. Business can be such a force for good
in the world, elevating humanity. In our program, we provide
(00:51):
guidance and inspiration to help usher in this world we
all want working on Purpose. Now here's your host, doctor
Elise Cortes.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Welcome back to the Working and Purpose Program, which has
been brought to you with passion and pride since February
of twenty fifteen. Thanks for tuning in again this week.
Great to have you. I'm your host, Doctor Release Cortes.
If we've not met before and you don't know me,
I'm an organizational psychologist, management consultant, logo therapist, speaker and author.
My team and I at Gusta and Now helped companies
in liven and fortify their operations by building a dynamic
(01:24):
by performance culture and an inspirational leadership activated by meaning
and purpose. You do know that inspire employees outperform their
satisfied counterparts by a factor of two point twenty five
to one. In other words, inspiration is good for the
bottom line. You can learn more about us and how
we can work together at gustodashnow dot com or my
personal site at Leascoortes dot com. Today's program we have
(01:45):
with us today Russell Wellocker, an international speaker and the
host and producer of the Relationships at Work podcast, the
guide for building workplace connections and avoiding leadership blind spots.
These held successful leadership and communications roles for alle twenty
five years, retaining one team for almost twelve years, and
his work and expertise in building employee and customer trust
(02:08):
have been recognized on international stages, multiple publications, and as
a four time named Top Thought Leader by the International
Customer Management Institute. We'll be diving in this particular episode
in these areas of expertise on leadership. He joins us
today from Let's see Victoria, British Columbia and Canada. Russell
A hearty, welcome to Working on Purpose.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
Thanks for having me, Aleise thrilled to be here.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
All right, isn't it nice to be on the other
side of the mic?
Speaker 4 (02:34):
Sometimes it is, there's extra pressure, but yeah, it feels
lovely and.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
Good. Good, Well, we're going to talk about fun things
that both you and I care about, leadership, trust, all
kinds of good things like that. And I appreciate getting
to converse with you and really pull from your background
and to start, I really loved how you situated the
idea that we could talk about the actual You said that,
why is it the definition of leadership? It's so important
(03:01):
for building employee trust. Let's start there.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
Absolutely, And I love that you want to start with
definitions because and I had the pleasure of having you
on my podcast as well, so I know this is
a bedrock of a conversation piece for us. So definitions
are so important because what are we talking about if
we don't have things defined, if we're not singing from
the same song sheet. We throw out words in corporate
(03:27):
culture all the time like diversity, leadership, culture, and yet
nobody wants to define them so that we can reinforce
support them and go down a particular path. I'll even
I'll tell you a story where this really this hammered
home for me. I was out with a friend of
mine who was working with some executives I knew, and
(03:49):
she went on to tell me that this particular person
was an amazing leader, phenomenal leader. And I'm like, okay, interesting.
I knew for a fact that person was not a
good leader, so I was curious in that moment and said, okay,
how do you know they're a great leader? And her
response was extremely telling. Her response was she gets me
what I want when I want it.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
So you define leadership as the ends justify the means.
They got you a thing. And I'm like, do you
realize that that leader has the highest turnover burnout rate?
But to you, they're a great leader because they produced,
not because they had anything positive around the relationships of
the people they were responsible for. So her definition of
(04:34):
leadership was probably a lot different than the team member
of that executive and what they were going through. So
definitions matter.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Well, so how do you define leadership?
Speaker 4 (04:46):
I think the organization has to I think the organization
has to define leadership so that those that are seeking
leadership know what game we're playing. To be honest, if
you talk to executives, most of them will say, oh,
leaderships Simon Sinek and Berne Brown, but they won't reward
those characteristics. They won't follow up in a performance review
(05:10):
of well are you making other leaders are you growing
your staff? Or they don't care. It's more of can
you fix the problem that we have a problem and
what's getting in your way of fixing that problem. So,
even if you don't agree with the definition the organization
has for leadership, because that might be beyond your control
within a business area, at least you know what you're
getting into and what game you're playing. I might completely
(05:33):
disagree with what they think leadership is because I have
my own definition of what and I know you do
as well. Where it's the human piece. But if the
organization has a definition of leadership. Oh, they're going to
see a huge turnover, they're going to see burnout, they're
going to see but that's the game they're playing. So
we need to understand what the game is. And maybe
we need to work somewhere else, but at least we
know what we're talking about.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Hmm. Such a great point too, Thanks to that, Russell.
I have to comment on. One is that I'm always
amazed how many organizations conflate management and leadership, two very
very very very different things. So let's talk about that
really quick. So let's let me just throw it to
you first. How would you distinguish those two different roles?
Speaker 4 (06:14):
Absolutely, and that is such a key piece because we
make the huge mistake in organizations of calling managers leaders right,
and I mean that throughout the entire organization. I was
recently talking to somebody with their like my direct report,
my boss does not listen to me, does not champion me,
does not grow me, And I'm frustrated. I'm like, how
(06:34):
long you've been working with them? For two years? They're
a manager. And to your point about definitions, managers manage
resources and deliverables. Leaders are growing and supporting human beings.
You need to have both. Both are extremely, extremely important.
But to your point, we confuse the two so that
(06:54):
a manager who's a great manager and a horrible leader
is still being called a leader. So they think they're
doing just fine. They call them they're on a leadership team.
They're a senior leader. No they're not. They're just a manager,
and we have we're going to have higher expectations of
them when they don't have the skill set.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
Yeah, such a great, great distinction. Wrestler completely agree with that,
and I take tuteledge from my mentor at doctor Lance Sacraton,
who also hails from Canada, and he really distinguishes tremendously
between management and leadership, but he also the leadership part
of this especially, and this comes over to my second
point for him, and this is where I align with him,
(07:32):
is I'm interested in developing inspirational leaders. And so those
people are first and foremost turned on by their own lives,
themselves and what they're up to in their own world,
and they have a strong, hearty connection and believe in
what the organization is doing. That becomes attractive and energizing
force and they are focused heavily on to your point,
(07:53):
on their people and loving them into becoming their higher potential,
really encouraging them a challenge in them, giving them as
stretch assignments. They know who these people are, and they
can see and want for them more than they even
want for themselves, and they take to light and seeing
them realize those stretch goals and that growth.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
It's interesting you brought that up because that's something I
struggle with a bit, is around how we qualify leadership,
because we'll see things like inspirational leader, people leader, servant leader,
and to me, it's all just whether you're a good
leader or not. Like we put these words in front
of it to help those who don't understand leadership and
(08:32):
understand what their job is, like, oh, I want to
be a people leader, Like no, actually, you're just being
a leader or a manager, a good one or a
bad one. But we have to put those words in
front of it so that people understand the actions and
the intent they need to have in order to be
better leaders. But to me, it's either you're a good leader,
which would be inspirational, servant growth leadership. But we have
(08:54):
to almost put that in as a communications exercise to
get people on board to understand what a good leader
looks and.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Acts like I really appreciate your distinction that each each
organization needs to decide what kind of leaders do we
want around here. I've certainly worked with organizations like well
so in my work. This is so interesting just thinking
about history here, Russell. When I first really got involved
in the human capital general space a person recruiting and
then kind of went along the way. Back then, a
(09:24):
lot of the stuff that I was really doing were
called soft skills. Now they're called essential skills, right, So
all these things that we used to think of as
just you know, nice to have additions. So what's happened
is because I worked in that realm quite a bit,
teaching people things around employee engagement and communication, et cetera.
I worked with a lot of very technical audiences, scientists, engineers,
(09:48):
it people because they needed that kind of additional leering
and of skills and what they had on their own,
and I loved working with them. And some of those
organizations were, you know, they really proded in having very
technically astute leaders, people that had a very strong technical vocabulary,
who were commanding in their technical pross. So to your point,
(10:08):
you know, each organization defining what kind of a leader.
Do we really want in prize around here? And we
will reward around here?
Speaker 4 (10:15):
Absolutely, and technical people are some of my favorite people.
They're brilliant. But to be really strong in their technical
sense doesn't mean they're strong in other sense. They need
people like yourself and myself sort of to clarify that.
A perfect example was this was I worked with a
technical group who was trying to communicate what they did,
and they provided me a PowerPoint presentation that was one
(10:36):
hundred and twenty slides deep, and I'm like, wow, oh oh, no,
you've you've there's no mystery here, You've covered everything. But
nobody's going to listen to this. Nobody's gonna get past
slide too. So they couldn't connect with or build relationships
with anybody because they were so stuck in the details.
And that as a technical person, my god, please be
(10:57):
that person. But it is another skill set to understand
what connection and communication look like right exactly.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
Now, you're not exaggerating. There was one hundred and twenty.
Speaker 4 (11:07):
I think one hundred and seventeen. I'm not exaggerating at all.
I was bored by slide three, but yeah, yeah, on seventeen.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Wow, Wow, here's just get to know us a little bit.
All right. Well, okay, well, speaking of that that, maybe
this is the next This is the time to bring
up the next topic that I wanted to talk to
you with that we agreed on in advance, but that
the seven roadblocks to great leadership we put in our
own way. That might be one of them.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
I don't know, Uh, it can be. Yeah, no, it was.
It's been an interesting journey on this. I've noticed as
I've been talking to leaders and in my own experience
as a leader, it really became really apparent to me
that there are these things that leadership will put in
their own way to get in the way of great
(11:49):
leadership in an organization. Because we often hear the phrase
people don't leave good jobs, they leave bad leaders right,
And I actually disagree with that. I actually think people
leave leave bad leadership ecosystems. And the reason I bring
that up is that you will have people go I
need to leave Sarah or Jim or whomever as my boss.
(12:11):
I'm like, okay, Now, if that organization identified that bad leader,
did something about it, coached them, mentored them, provided the
skills they needed to turn it around, would you still
stay in that organization, and they're like, well, yeah, I
would stay because they're doing something to fix it. The
problem is most organizations don't. They just allow this bad
(12:32):
leadership to fester and then until it becomes untenable because
everybody's left, or they need to fire that person, or
they just let it continue. So I was looking at
these seven roadblocks to go what gets in the way
of us being able to identify bad leaders or for
us to be able to fix these cracks in our culture.
So we don't have to go through all seven, but sure, whatever,
(12:53):
whatever we go down. The first roadblock I find is
the roadblock of negligence, which is the I'm too busy
sin right, and this is where we have And unfortunately,
most leaders fall within this one, and they are more
run by their calendar than they are run as leaders.
And I would argue most that are running from meeting
(13:14):
to meeting aren't leaders. They are cogs in a wheel
because they are barely breathing because their only respite is
that fifteen minute lunch. They might get that they're fighting
that nobody puts a meeting in, right, But your team's like,
I don't have any time with you. You provide no direction,
You provide no insight into what you want and how
(13:34):
you want it, unless it's that five seconds between the
next thing you have to do. So the greatest gift
we can provide anybody as a leader is time. And
unfortunately leadership is being punished because the leader above them
needs to be great too. They need to provide barriers,
they need to provide that sandbox in which leaders need
(13:54):
to play, and unfortunately calendars do not do that because
it becomes so packed that to your point, they become
managers managing of their time, managing of the next to do,
rather than leading a team because they don't have the time,
but they use it as an excuse to get in
the way of being good leaders.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Okay, that is an amazing point. I do want to
cover as made as I can. Let's grab our first break,
so that's the first one to kick us off. There,
I'm your host, doctor Release Cortez. We've got on the
air with Russell Lollicker, who has held successful leadership and
communication roles for almost twenty five years, and his work
and expertise in building employees and customer trust has been
(14:32):
recognized on international stages all over the world. We've been
talking a bit about just what is leadership, and now
we're getting into the first point of some roadblocks. After break,
we're going to cover some more. We'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Doctor Elise Cortez is a manager and consultant specializing in
meaning and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author, she helps
companies visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose
inspired leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance,
and commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to
invite a lease to speak to your organization, please visit
(15:19):
her at elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to
get your employees working on purpose. This is working on
Purpose with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today
or to open a conversation with Elise, send an email
to Elise A Lisee at elisecortes dot com. Now back
(15:43):
to working on Purpose.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Thank you for Jane with us, and welcome back to
Working on Purpose. I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortes, as
I am dedicated to helping create a world where people
realize their potential at work. Are let bite those inspiration
leaders we've been talking about and those leaders actually help
them find and contribute their greatness, and we do business
at Betters in the world. I keep researching and writing
my own books. So my last one came out in
twenty twenty three. It's called The Great Revitalization out Activating
(16:13):
meaning and purpose can radically in liven your business. And
I'm root to help leaders understand the lay of today's land.
What does the workforce really want and need from them
to give their best and want to stay? And then
I offer twenty two best practices to help you build
that into your culture to create that for them. You
can find my books on Amazon or my personal site
at least quretest dot com if you are just now
joining us. My guest is Russell Lollocker, an international speaker
(16:35):
and the host producer of the Relationship at Work podcast,
The Guide to Building workplace connections and avoiding leadership blind spots.
Just what we're getting into, Okay, So that first one
of the idea of they're not they're just managing their calendar.
So to me, one thing that I can think of
so that we can help our listeners in yours. What
we do about that is we build and we block
(16:55):
off time that looks like we're busy, but it's actually
meant for our people. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
Absolutely, boundaries are where you show your leadership here, and
I mean that boundaries against pressures of that are coming
from all sides. As a leader were pulled in seventeen
million directions. That includes the person that we're reporting to,
and we need to be passionate about keeping those boundaries.
And I block off time all the time. I think
that's one of the but then be precious about it.
(17:23):
You can't move it around, you can't. So from my experience,
actually my team that I kept for about twelve years
was the exact same team I had in my calendar.
A half hour with them that would not be moved.
It was only for them. Ever, for them, they led it.
It could be about work, it could be about performance career,
it could be some of the troubles they were having
(17:44):
at home. Whatever it was. I provided the space and
they filled it to the point where I actually tried
to cancel it once. I'm like, you know what, I
don't know if these are working. And it was like pitchforks.
They were so because I mean, you don't me wrong.
We talked all the time, but this was sort of
so special and precious to them that this was some
(18:07):
personal interaction, relationship building moment that they could count on
and frequency is really up to you in that team member,
but the value is making sure that it exists.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Awesome, Okay, let's talk about Let's hit as many of
these roadbooks as we can. Joining This is really useful
for our listeners and viewers. Number two, what is it? Roadblock?
Speaker 4 (18:27):
Oh, this is one is in their own way. Yeah,
I think that one of the next one is an
interesting one too. It's called the road roadblock of abandonment.
And this is where we get into that, uh, the
quiet quitting or as I call checkbox leadership. It's so
hilarious to me that leadership and organizations got so upset
(18:48):
a couple of years ago that employees were quiet quitting.
They were just doing the job description. They were not
doing anything more. Leaders have been doing this for years.
They've been task managers because again we go back to
being too busy. But they also don't know what those
next steps are. And this kind of plays into our
previous conversations about what a manager is versus what a
(19:09):
leader is. And the jump into leadership involves beyond the checkbox. Okay,
I did that today. I did that today. It's We're
not a to do list. Humans are not to do lists.
We're not a calendar. I'll give you an example this.
I was at the Work Human Conference last year covering
it as part of my podcast Relationships at Work, and
(19:31):
it was really about what I'm learning, and I was
writing about, you know, some of the great speakers they had,
and working with a lot of the HR professionals that
were there and getting to know them and their challenges.
The most impactful thing that happened to me was overhearing
a conversation. I was in the hallway and I was
listening to and obviously an HR professional that was calling
back to their office and speaking to their colleague, maybe
(19:52):
their boss. I didn't know. She was going off about
how amazing this conference were. These were my people. I
feel so connect did, I'm learning so much, all great
things until she got to that last sentence. And I
have no idea what I'm going to do with it
when I get back to the office. So from what
I'm hearing, is her boss or her boss's boss said Hey,
(20:16):
let's send somebody to a conference because it's leadership development.
Quote unquote. Will we follow up when she gets back, nope?
Will there be a learning plan with the information she provides? Nope?
But look, we did leadership development check box.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
We fall into that so often of not doing anything
more than what is the bare minimum required so we
can call ourselves a leader and the organization can call
ourselves a leader.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
Wow, that was an amazing story to illustrate that. Okay,
next roadblock.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
Oh, sure, absolutely, the roadblock of deceit. This is where
we have words not meeting the actions of the organization.
We sure like putting values on a poster. Oh my goodness,
we love putting them on a website, but we don't
do anything with them. We don't use them in hiring,
we don't use them to follow up in performance reviews.
(21:12):
It's it's shocking how much what we say doesn't match
the the conversation that we're having. And that goes back
to my earlier point of a leader is Simon Sinek
Brene Brown. These human, vulnerable leaders. But what we reward,
what we promote? What we you know, the more work
rewarded for more work that is completely different than what
(21:36):
we're saying. And it happens all the time, I did
an interview with a gentleman on my podcast who had
a great story where they talked about he worked at
Hershey's and they actually had a supervisors were given an allowance,
given given a budget that they could reward staff every
time they saw them exemplify the values of the organization.
(21:58):
It was like Hershey Boxer, something that was really important
within the organization, but it was the their feet hit
the ground about what values looked like. And unfortunately in organizations,
we're so busy talking about what ideals are, but we're
not actually putting into practice what those look like, so
that our own employees don't really know what it looks
(22:19):
like to show up.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
Wow. So that's very powerful, this idea of just seat
you know. So I think that's really just I think
that's really important. In other words, walk the talk right
and match sure your actions with your communication.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
Oh yeah, absolutely, And I would say communication is one
of the strongest superpowers you can have as great or
great communications as a great leader. And if you're communicating
something that is not being followed up, trust is broken.
Within that gap between what you say and what you do.
Employees aren't dumb, they're sitting there going I can't trust
(22:52):
you if I can't believe what the words coming out
of your mouth, and I believe I believe that for
a bad leader and for the organization.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
Yeah, yeah, this is a great Russell. What's next? What's
the next roadblock? I'm loving this. I'ming all kinds of things.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
Another roadblock I find is the one for cowardice. And
this is where leaders, and i'll put air quotes. Leaders
are afraid of conflict. This is where they sit in
their office. This is where they never walk another floor
that doesn't exist where their office isn't. They don't build relationships.
(23:28):
They are or if they hear something is happening it's bad,
like oh we have some issues with one of your staff,
they're like, oh, it'll work itself out, or they'll say
that they they'll delegate that conflict resolution outside them themselves.
They don't take anything on which is not relationship building.
(23:48):
I remember talking to one executive where they were asking
me like, how do I build relationships beyond the two
people that come talk to me all the time? Leave
your damn office Like he's it was literally complaining that
the only people he got to talk to are his
two admin's staff, and I'm like, whose fault is that
that is yours? Go talk to somebody that doesn't have
(24:10):
a lofty title like you sit in there cubicle. Ask
them about their day, Ask them what they do for
a living, Ask you know, what do they do in
the organization. It's value to them. Like this is where
we get out of our comfort zones and actually put
ourselves out in an environment that might be a conflict
that might make us have to be vulnerable instead of
(24:31):
this protective layer that a closed door provides for a leader.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
I have to tell a story that I don't think
I've ever told on air in the ten years of
an host in the show speaking of conflict at work.
I worked let's see the late nineties, mid nineties in Portland, Oregon.
At that time, I was selling I was working for
this baking distributions. It was a flower company and it
had a distribution side. When I was a sales manager
(24:58):
for the Fisian side and I had a small sales
team there. And the woman who hired me. At first
she was she was great to work with, but then
I really realized we had a major, major personality conflict.
She really was just it was oil and water, and
I mean, and she anytime that I did anything that
she didn't like, she she set up this set of
barbs around and it was just so hard and overwhelming
(25:20):
for me to work with her. But I liked working
for the company and I just didn't know how to
handle that conflict with her. And so I the company
was headquartered in Seattle, Washington, and so I called her,
emailed the president who I had some kind of a
relationship with, and said, can I come and see you?
And I drove up to Seattle, and when I do
(25:42):
his office, had a conversation and I did what you
know most women don't ever want to do. You know
what that is. I fell. I fell into a pile
of tears. As I've said, you know, I really love
working here and I love what we're doing, but I
just don't know how I can work for this woman,
and I don't what, I don't know what I'll to do,
and that's why I'm here. And then I started, you know,
(26:03):
the tears came, and then he said, you know, give
me a couple of weeks, let me see what I
can do. And what he did, since kind of goes
back to what you were saying before they didn't intervene
with her because she really was harsh and very very
very strong boundaries. What happened at the resolution of that conflict,
Russell was, I got promoted to a bigger job in Seattle,
(26:23):
and so I and I got to come to my
I want had a dream to live in Seattle. So
it all happened. It all worked out really well. But
we you know, so that one same leader who was
toxic and you know, negative, nothing was done to help
her get out of that. To your earlier point.
Speaker 4 (26:40):
It worked out great for you, It didn't work out
great for the organization, right right.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
Well, later on this organization actually went bankrupt. They didn't
They went out of business on me. That isn't that funny?
How those that? That seems to be an interesting huh. Anyway, Okay,
what's the next roadblock?
Speaker 4 (26:58):
Oh? The next one I I think we're going to
jump into. It's the roadblack of apathy is where there's
a lack of follow up or any type of curiosity,
where leaders will just make assumptions rather than digging below
the surface. I love the term. There is an amazing
book called Manifesto for a Moral Revolution Jacqueline novograts. She
(27:24):
talks about a thing called arrogant assumption. So I love
framing it in that way, is that we will just
make assumptions as leaders and then stick to it without
any curiosity beyond that. For example, say you get a
survey that doesn't provide you the answers that you want. Oh, well,
that was just a moment in time. It'll be fine.
(27:45):
You're making an assumption that it is a symptom, not
the disease. You're just looking at a point and making
sure that that is not the bigger problem, because that's
what you want to assume, because it makes your life easier.
I remember talking to a group of executives and I
was talking about the gap and the growing gap between
what executives think and what leaders what employees know, Like
(28:09):
there's and believe me, there's so many studies if you
would want to google that out, is that there's this
growing divide. And unfortunately, there was a leader in the
room that said and cross their arms. What they did
it love body language. That can't be true. That's not
how I see things that that can't possibly be true.
Thank goodness for the person beside them who was doing
(28:31):
a quick google search and is like, uh, yeah, it's
actually very very true, very very very very true. But
if that person hadn't corrected them, that so called leader
would have sat there in their assumptions, not been curious
at all, and go, no, my way of thinking must
be right, because that's what I believe, because to believe
otherwise makes it like I have to do work, like
(28:53):
I have to do more than white quitting or checkbox
leadership or management. Right. So it's it's a thing that
just breaks my heart, and it happens over and over again.
I remember talking to another executive and literally telling them
that they weren't a safe space in a meeting. They
weren't getting any feedback from me because they were not
a safe space. It made the meeting extremely awkward because
(29:16):
there were other people in the meeting besides this, for me,
no follow up nothing. I never heard from that leader
again to follow up with a meeting, going so what
did you mean by that? What can we work on?
What's the opportunity here? Nothing? They just put their head
in the sand and go, Okay, it's probably not what
I believe, so it must not be true, moving out.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
Right right right? Oh my gosh, I totally want to
come into that. But let's grab our last break. But
I want to share one thing about that that's so fascinating.
I'm your host, Doctor Relies Cortes Wood on the air
with Russell Lolloker, who has held successful leadership and communication
roles for almost twenty five years. His work has been
recognized on your national stages because he's that good. We've
been talking a bit about some of the roadblocks that
(29:57):
get in our own way as leaders. After the break,
we're going to cover more. Be right back.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Doctor Elise Cortes is a management consultant specializing in meaning
and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author, she helps companies
visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired
leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and
commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite
a lease to speak to your organization, please visit her
(30:37):
at Elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get
your employees working on purpose. This is working on purpose
with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today or
to open a conversation with Elise, send an email to
Elise A. L. I se at Elisecortes dot com. Now
(31:01):
back to working on Purpose.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
Inkteresting with this and welcome back to working on Purpose.
I'm your host, Doctor Release Cortes. I mentioned in the
last break that my latest book came out called a
Great Revialization. What I did for you as I created
a three page simple assessment that's sitting on my website
at gustodeshnow dot com, and that will help you understand
the extent to which you are meeting the standards of
today's discerning workforce. It'll give you twenty two of those
(31:29):
best projects so you can evaluate against them if you
are just now joining us. My guest is Russell Lolloker.
He's an international speaker and the host and producer of
the Relationships at Work podcast, the guide to building workplace
connection and avoiding leadership blind Spots. So what I wanted
to comment on this idea of apathy. This is so interesting.
I am my next guest that I'm coming that's coming
(31:49):
on my podcast. Her name is Amana Morales and she's
written a book called The Flexibility Paradigm, and essentially what
she's talking about, she's advocating for, you know, obviously flexible
work arrangements to be able to accommodate more of the
workforce and allow their whole lives to work. And she
makes such a great point back to your apathy piece
(32:09):
of where she's talking with leaders. They're like, well, what
are you talking about? Everything works fine around here and
so and she was saying an example of, well, you know,
the only way for me to get this one assignment
done was if I actually took it home and did it,
you know, during the course of the evening. And so
I brought it up to my boss that while this
might be kind of hard for me, It's like, what
(32:30):
do you mean, just go home and do the assignment.
And she said, well, I actually have a family that
I'm going to be cooking for and reading too and
bathing and putting to bed, and then I would like
to actually connect with my partner at some point as well.
And she says, who does those things for you? I mean,
she said, my wife. Well, I don't have a wife.
So this idea that my world, in whatever my world is,
(32:52):
is everybody else's world, I think that is a screaming
mess all the time for people that they're so stuck
in their own minds as this is how the work
world works, because it's the way my world works, and
is disastrous for people who are actually trying to be
effective as leaders.
Speaker 4 (33:09):
Couldn't agree more. I it's they're stuck in their own bubble.
And it also comes back to that whole I'm too
busy because and I don't have the capacity to learn
about my teams, learn about my other leaders I'm responsible for.
It's such a crutch to lean on. But then again,
we then call these people leaders when they're not. They
don't have the capacity, they're not doing the characteristics that
(33:32):
we know to be leaders.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
Right, Yeah, I love this, Russell. Okay, out of lost count,
we're which which how many of these have we gone through? Pods?
Speaker 4 (33:41):
I do the same thing. No, we've got five, We've
got two more to go.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
Okay, let's hit them. Let's hit them. Well, let's hit
your blind spots.
Speaker 4 (33:47):
Let's hit the one that I think moves very easily
into the conversation we just had, which is the roadblock
of confusion. We're talking about cognitive dissonance. This is where
leaders know something is a problem, but do things anyway.
I'll tell you this, it's a matter of not going
below the surface. It does lead into curiosity, but it's
(34:10):
also this deflection because it's not their experience within the organization.
I remember talking to a colleague about my experience with
a horrible leader, and I'm looking for compassion, I'm looking
for empathy. I'm looking for some sort of even just
listening at this point. But my colleague, who I adore
(34:31):
and love them as a person, I've never been led
by them, so I don't know if they're good leaders
or not. That's the one thing. We can't just assume
good people are good leaders. But he came back to
me and said, that's not my experience. They've been great
with me. So they dismissed everything I had set up
to that point because we go back to my original story.
They got me what I wanted when I wanted it,
(34:53):
so they must be a great leader. So my experience
can't be validated, it can't have any residents because it's
not the experience they've had. So the story they're telling
in their mind is one even if they've heard it
from their people. They're like, I've heard that, but it
can't be as bad as people think because it's not
my experience. So that hurts and undervalues. A lot of
(35:16):
employees who want to be vulnerable, want to be honest,
want to share their experiences, and then find this brick
wall from so called leaders because no, it can't be
true because it's just not my experienced.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
You know, I have to weigh on that one too, Russell,
This is so amazing. I love this conversation. You just
can't go away as my one of my major major
pet peeves and heartbreaks in the world of work. And
what I get to do helping organizations build their cultures
and their teams is I see all the time and
I know you do too, where a manager will say, well,
(35:50):
so and so, Russell, you know, he's just he's just
you know, he's just a bad news guy. You know,
he just he just you can't do anything with Russell's.
And they put this label on on these people who
say the non performer, not good, don't promote kind of thing,
and then that gets picked up and passed around and
conveyed to various people, and pretty soon this person now
(36:11):
has this big target on them as you know, not promotable,
not good, whatever, when in reality it's just a reflection
of their unique relationship wherein if that person went to
somebody else, reported to somebody else, they could be it
showed entirely differently and better. And that's this happened to
me many times where I've been told, oh, don't hire
this person there are they are awful, and I've hired
(36:34):
them and the person's working with me. Now, Lydia, that's you.
It's just a rock star. She's just a rock star.
And so it's so important that we are that we
are aware of how we're labeling people and how we're
seeing and relating to our people. Just so important.
Speaker 4 (36:50):
I remember also talking to a leader who is responsible
to a board, and I was sitting down with that leader,
I think, yeah, and then they were saying how that
board was horrible, they were impossible to get through. They
didn't listen to any ideas, and I'm like, who talks
to the board? Well, I do nobody else. No, maybe
it's a you thing. Maybe you're the problem, not the board,
(37:11):
because there's seven different individuals. You're one person. I see
the common denominator here being you. But that comes to
self awareness, that comes to situational awareness. But yeah, I
find that and I myself as well. To your point,
I've had some people labeled problems and I've had them.
I'm like, they're phenomenal. They just need to be listened to.
(37:34):
They need to be led, not managed. Which back to
our earlier point.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
Mm hmm, so good. Okay, do we get a mall?
Or is there one more?
Speaker 4 (37:41):
One more, one more.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
Let's get it.
Speaker 4 (37:44):
It's it's the roadblock of irresponsibility. We talk about responsibility
in the workplace a lot, and we can see it
in a job description. These are the things I'm responsible for.
Sure leadership will be in there, but it seems like
a keyword exercise and actually defining what leadership is within
the job description. So where this roadblock exists is in
(38:05):
the lack of accountability responsibility. Sure, we know what our
job is, we know what we have to deliver, but
are we accountable to the results? Are we accountable to
the people that we as leaders are responsible for? And
where I see this being most impactful when it comes
to leadership and leadership ecosystems being broken, is that we
will identify bad leaders. We're very quick to going, hey,
(38:28):
they're a problem, they need to be worked on. Their
staff will say so, but we never look at their boss,
the person that hired them. The person that was responsible
for coaching and mentoring them, the person that had performance
reviews with them quarterly, yearly. However, why are they not
held accountable for the horrible leader that they allowed perpetuate,
(38:51):
they allowed to hurt the culture. Instead we go bad leader.
We need to get rid of the bad leader. No,
that's a symptom, not the disease. The disease is how
is that person brought in given that responsibility, not kept
in check, not coach, not mentored, And yet we want
to focus on the easy fix rather than the accountability problem.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
So so good, Russell. In fact, I will say I'm
so proud. There are a few people that I've coached
for years and gotten to see them that really developed
their careers. And in most of the cases they have
shared with me over the years of how they have
gotten a new employee, and they've been able to give
them some very specific feedback, constructive feedback about their performance
(39:39):
and where there's gaps and where their opportunities for them
to grow. And where it gets really interesting is what
their their feedback. Their constant feedback is what what are
you talking about? No one has ever told me that before.
In other words, it can't be true because nobody else
has ever told told me that. Well, actually it is true.
No one else ever had the courage or the skills
to tell you that, or care to enough to tell you.
(40:01):
So I just there's so much that goes into as
it's just so good. And you know, as you know, Russell,
I believe in the world of work. That's why I'm
an organizational psychologist. It's the playground of life. And yet
there's so much we can do to improve the experience
for everyone. I love these these blind spots that you've
been sharing with us. This is this. I think this
really helps our listeners and viewers get a much better understanding.
(40:22):
But what do we mean by management? What do we
mean by leadership? What does it actually take? Greatness? Okay,
so we have just a few more minutes here left
on and I just want to be able to hit
a few of these ingredients to trust driven leadership that
you've mentioned that you want to talk about. So let's
hear about a few of those and then we'll be
done here in about five minutes.
Speaker 4 (40:42):
Oh all good. I think the thing is is that
if you want to build actual relationships, trust needs to
be the DNA in which must operate, have to have
to and yet we treat it like it's another when
we get into the workplace, like the ingredients to building
trust with your friends and family is somehow this different
strategic plan initiative. Once we turn on a computer or
(41:05):
walk through a door, it's the same damn thing. It's
are you being true to your word? Is what back
to my you know sins and roadblocks earlier? Are what
you say matching your actions in the workplace? Are you
communicating effectively? Are you building it over time? Because trust
is not built in a day. It is a long
(41:25):
game that we have to build as leaders every single day.
Trust is built in moments, not in grand gestures. Are
we consistent? That's a huge piece is are we the
same person on Tuesday that we are on Wednesday? And
in how we interact with other people? Are we making
an effort? Are we being honest and transparent or making
(41:45):
an effort to help people? Like these are ingredients that
you would ask people you know, you would demand of
a friend of yours, instead of people that are asking
you to call you instead of wanting something like most
leaders are, I want you to do something. I want
you to do this, How can I help you? What can
I do to create an environment for you? It's just
it's this weird. Trust is another when it comes to
(42:07):
the workplace that I really think we have to get
rid of and go. Have you ever made a friend,
but you have you ever made any connection in your life? Well,
what skills did you bring? What intention did you bring
in that day to day long term relationship building? Bring
that to work. Stop looking at it as a check
box exercise, you know, actually put effort into it. And
(42:30):
the one thing I want to also flip on that
is that we talk about trust like it's all encompassing
and a good thing. Trust can also be bad. I've
had leaders where I trust them not to have my back,
I trust them not to champion me, I trust them
not to support me, and that is also trust, But
it is certainly not the direction we want to go.
And that's where we have to be intention and actually
(42:52):
real leaders here.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
You know. It's just I'm working with the origination right now,
helping them because they've got some trust issues, and it's
so amazing.
Speaker 4 (43:00):
Right.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
Trust is the great delineator of results, right, I mean,
if we got if we can do, if we've got
the trust, we can do all kinds of things, and
it's so interesting. Once it's gone, it's like it's just
like it's gone, and so finding a way to get
it back and that's been some of my most interesting
precious work wrestles, getting to work with organizations to bring
them together or I can help broker the conversation around
(43:22):
where did it fall apart? How do I, why do
I feel the way that I do, and what can
we do to try to get it back on track? Oh,
and it's hard, and sometimes it takes, you know, getting
somebody who's either a third party or somebody else that
isn't as vested in the outcome as as the team
itself is to help bring that together. And it's some
of the most precious work I've ever gotten to do.
Speaker 4 (43:44):
I totally agree, And I think we also need to
look beyond what we trust in front of ourselves. And
that's where the curiosity comes in, because some leaders will go,
I can trust them, they're a rock star. Do you
know what they're sacrificing to deliver what you want? Do
you know how much burnout they're dealing with? Right Rightsting
them for delivery, You're not knowing the person and they'll
probably leave or have some serious mental health issues if
(44:07):
we don't dig a little deeper.
Speaker 3 (44:08):
Yeah, and then that's when we get to surprise. And
what do you mean you're leaving? Yeah? Exactly. So Russell
has been a complete delight to have you on this podcast,
and it's so great to have me on the other
mic with you, other end of the mic with you.
Thank you for coming on, working in purpose fast, last
few pearls here, seeing thirty seconds you want to close
the show with.
Speaker 4 (44:26):
I think, if anything, I can impart as a leader.
I love leaders. They're just not provided the training and
development they need, and they're thrown in to do way
too much, way too quickly. I think, if anything, the
first step is any good leader is self awareness. I
think if you know yourself and how you show up
and how you handle emotions, how you build relationships, the
better you know yourself is the best foundation you can
(44:48):
start to being a better leader.
Speaker 3 (44:49):
Amen, brother, So with you, what a delight, Russell, So
glad to know you. Listeners and viewers, you're also going
to want to know this man. So I'm going to
send you to two different websites for you to check
him out. You can go to his personal se It's
Russell Lollocker. Let me spell that for you. It's Russell
with one L are U S s E L Lollocker
l O L A c h E R Russell Lollocker
(45:11):
dot com one L or his podcast is Relationship Relationships
at workshow dot com. Either way you can find him there,
check them out. Thanks for joining us, and see you
next week for another inspiring episode. And remember, work is
one of the best adventures and means of realizing our
potential and making the impact we crave. So let's work
on Purpose.
Speaker 2 (45:33):
We hope you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure to
tune into Working on Purpose featuring your host, doctor Elise Cortes,
each week on W four CY. Together we'll create a
world where business operates conscientiously, leadership inspires and passion performance,
and employees are fulfilled in work that provides the meaning
and purpose they crave. See you there, Let's work on Purpose.
The topics and opinions express in the following show are
solely those of the hosts and their guests and not
those of W FOURCY Radio. It's employees are affiliates. We
make no recommendations or endorsements for radio show programs, services,
or products mentioned on air or on our web. No
liability explicit or implies shall be extended to W FOURCY
Radio or its employees are affiliates. Any questions or comments
should be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for
(00:20):
choosing W FOURCY Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
What's working on Purpose? Anyway? Each week we ponder the
answer to this question. People ache for meaning and purpose
at work, to contribute their talents passionately and know their
lives really matter. They crave being part of an organization
that inspires them and helps them grow into realizing their
highest potential. Business can be such a force for good
in the world, elevating humanity. In our program, we provide
(00:51):
guidance and inspiration to help usher in this world we
all want working on Purpose. Now here's your host, doctor
Elise Cortes.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Welcome back to the Working and Purpose Program, which has
been brought to you with passion and pride since February
of twenty fifteen. Thanks for tuning in again this week.
Great to have you. I'm your host, Doctor Release Cortes.
If we've not met before and you don't know me,
I'm an organizational psychologist, management consultant, logo therapist, speaker and author.
My team and I at Gusta and Now helped companies
in liven and fortify their operations by building a dynamic
(01:24):
by performance culture and an inspirational leadership activated by meaning
and purpose. You do know that inspire employees outperform their
satisfied counterparts by a factor of two point twenty five
to one. In other words, inspiration is good for the
bottom line. You can learn more about us and how
we can work together at gustodashnow dot com or my
personal site at Leascoortes dot com. Today's program we have
(01:45):
with us today Russell Wellocker, an international speaker and the
host and producer of the Relationships at Work podcast, the
guide for building workplace connections and avoiding leadership blind spots.
These held successful leadership and communications roles for alle twenty
five years, retaining one team for almost twelve years, and
his work and expertise in building employee and customer trust
(02:08):
have been recognized on international stages, multiple publications, and as
a four time named Top Thought Leader by the International
Customer Management Institute. We'll be diving in this particular episode
in these areas of expertise on leadership. He joins us
today from Let's see Victoria, British Columbia and Canada. Russell
A hearty, welcome to Working on Purpose.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
Thanks for having me, Aleise thrilled to be here.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
All right, isn't it nice to be on the other
side of the mic?
Speaker 4 (02:34):
Sometimes it is, there's extra pressure, but yeah, it feels
lovely and.
Speaker 3 (02:40):
Good. Good, Well, we're going to talk about fun things
that both you and I care about, leadership, trust, all
kinds of good things like that. And I appreciate getting
to converse with you and really pull from your background
and to start, I really loved how you situated the
idea that we could talk about the actual You said that,
why is it the definition of leadership? It's so important
(03:01):
for building employee trust. Let's start there.
Speaker 4 (03:04):
Absolutely, And I love that you want to start with
definitions because and I had the pleasure of having you
on my podcast as well, so I know this is
a bedrock of a conversation piece for us. So definitions
are so important because what are we talking about if
we don't have things defined, if we're not singing from
the same song sheet. We throw out words in corporate
(03:27):
culture all the time like diversity, leadership, culture, and yet
nobody wants to define them so that we can reinforce
support them and go down a particular path. I'll even
I'll tell you a story where this really this hammered
home for me. I was out with a friend of
mine who was working with some executives I knew, and
(03:49):
she went on to tell me that this particular person
was an amazing leader, phenomenal leader. And I'm like, okay, interesting.
I knew for a fact that person was not a
good leader, so I was curious in that moment and said, okay,
how do you know they're a great leader? And her
response was extremely telling. Her response was she gets me
what I want when I want it.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (04:12):
So you define leadership as the ends justify the means.
They got you a thing. And I'm like, do you
realize that that leader has the highest turnover burnout rate?
But to you, they're a great leader because they produced,
not because they had anything positive around the relationships of
the people they were responsible for. So her definition of
(04:34):
leadership was probably a lot different than the team member
of that executive and what they were going through. So
definitions matter.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Well, so how do you define leadership?
Speaker 4 (04:46):
I think the organization has to I think the organization
has to define leadership so that those that are seeking
leadership know what game we're playing. To be honest, if
you talk to executives, most of them will say, oh,
leaderships Simon Sinek and Berne Brown, but they won't reward
those characteristics. They won't follow up in a performance review
(05:10):
of well are you making other leaders are you growing
your staff? Or they don't care. It's more of can
you fix the problem that we have a problem and
what's getting in your way of fixing that problem. So,
even if you don't agree with the definition the organization
has for leadership, because that might be beyond your control
within a business area, at least you know what you're
getting into and what game you're playing. I might completely
(05:33):
disagree with what they think leadership is because I have
my own definition of what and I know you do
as well. Where it's the human piece. But if the
organization has a definition of leadership. Oh, they're going to
see a huge turnover, they're going to see burnout, they're
going to see but that's the game they're playing. So
we need to understand what the game is. And maybe
we need to work somewhere else, but at least we
know what we're talking about.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Hmm. Such a great point too, Thanks to that, Russell.
I have to comment on. One is that I'm always
amazed how many organizations conflate management and leadership, two very
very very very different things. So let's talk about that
really quick. So let's let me just throw it to
you first. How would you distinguish those two different roles?
Speaker 4 (06:14):
Absolutely, and that is such a key piece because we
make the huge mistake in organizations of calling managers leaders right,
and I mean that throughout the entire organization. I was
recently talking to somebody with their like my direct report,
my boss does not listen to me, does not champion me,
does not grow me, And I'm frustrated. I'm like, how
(06:34):
long you've been working with them? For two years? They're
a manager. And to your point about definitions, managers manage
resources and deliverables. Leaders are growing and supporting human beings.
You need to have both. Both are extremely, extremely important.
But to your point, we confuse the two so that
(06:54):
a manager who's a great manager and a horrible leader
is still being called a leader. So they think they're
doing just fine. They call them they're on a leadership team.
They're a senior leader. No they're not. They're just a manager,
and we have we're going to have higher expectations of
them when they don't have the skill set.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
Yeah, such a great, great distinction. Wrestler completely agree with that,
and I take tuteledge from my mentor at doctor Lance Sacraton,
who also hails from Canada, and he really distinguishes tremendously
between management and leadership, but he also the leadership part
of this especially, and this comes over to my second
point for him, and this is where I align with him,
(07:32):
is I'm interested in developing inspirational leaders. And so those
people are first and foremost turned on by their own lives,
themselves and what they're up to in their own world,
and they have a strong, hearty connection and believe in
what the organization is doing. That becomes attractive and energizing
force and they are focused heavily on to your point,
(07:53):
on their people and loving them into becoming their higher potential,
really encouraging them a challenge in them, giving them as
stretch assignments. They know who these people are, and they
can see and want for them more than they even
want for themselves, and they take to light and seeing
them realize those stretch goals and that growth.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
It's interesting you brought that up because that's something I
struggle with a bit, is around how we qualify leadership,
because we'll see things like inspirational leader, people leader, servant leader,
and to me, it's all just whether you're a good
leader or not. Like we put these words in front
of it to help those who don't understand leadership and
(08:32):
understand what their job is, like, oh, I want to
be a people leader, Like no, actually, you're just being
a leader or a manager, a good one or a
bad one. But we have to put those words in
front of it so that people understand the actions and
the intent they need to have in order to be
better leaders. But to me, it's either you're a good leader,
which would be inspirational, servant growth leadership. But we have
(08:54):
to almost put that in as a communications exercise to
get people on board to understand what a good leader
looks and.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
Acts like I really appreciate your distinction that each each
organization needs to decide what kind of leaders do we
want around here. I've certainly worked with organizations like well
so in my work. This is so interesting just thinking
about history here, Russell. When I first really got involved
in the human capital general space a person recruiting and
then kind of went along the way. Back then, a
(09:24):
lot of the stuff that I was really doing were
called soft skills. Now they're called essential skills, right, So
all these things that we used to think of as
just you know, nice to have additions. So what's happened
is because I worked in that realm quite a bit,
teaching people things around employee engagement and communication, et cetera.
I worked with a lot of very technical audiences, scientists, engineers,
(09:48):
it people because they needed that kind of additional leering
and of skills and what they had on their own,
and I loved working with them. And some of those
organizations were, you know, they really proded in having very
technically astute leaders, people that had a very strong technical vocabulary,
who were commanding in their technical pross. So to your point,
(10:08):
you know, each organization defining what kind of a leader.
Do we really want in prize around here? And we
will reward around here?
Speaker 4 (10:15):
Absolutely, and technical people are some of my favorite people.
They're brilliant. But to be really strong in their technical
sense doesn't mean they're strong in other sense. They need
people like yourself and myself sort of to clarify that.
A perfect example was this was I worked with a
technical group who was trying to communicate what they did,
and they provided me a PowerPoint presentation that was one
(10:36):
hundred and twenty slides deep, and I'm like, wow, oh oh, no,
you've you've there's no mystery here, You've covered everything. But
nobody's going to listen to this. Nobody's gonna get past
slide too. So they couldn't connect with or build relationships
with anybody because they were so stuck in the details.
And that as a technical person, my god, please be
(10:57):
that person. But it is another skill set to understand
what connection and communication look like right exactly.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
Now, you're not exaggerating. There was one hundred and twenty.
Speaker 4 (11:07):
I think one hundred and seventeen. I'm not exaggerating at all.
I was bored by slide three, but yeah, yeah, on seventeen.
Speaker 3 (11:13):
Wow, Wow, here's just get to know us a little bit.
All right. Well, okay, well, speaking of that that, maybe
this is the next This is the time to bring
up the next topic that I wanted to talk to
you with that we agreed on in advance, but that
the seven roadblocks to great leadership we put in our
own way. That might be one of them.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
I don't know, Uh, it can be. Yeah, no, it was.
It's been an interesting journey on this. I've noticed as
I've been talking to leaders and in my own experience
as a leader, it really became really apparent to me
that there are these things that leadership will put in
their own way to get in the way of great
(11:49):
leadership in an organization. Because we often hear the phrase
people don't leave good jobs, they leave bad leaders right,
And I actually disagree with that. I actually think people
leave leave bad leadership ecosystems. And the reason I bring
that up is that you will have people go I
need to leave Sarah or Jim or whomever as my boss.
(12:11):
I'm like, okay, Now, if that organization identified that bad leader,
did something about it, coached them, mentored them, provided the
skills they needed to turn it around, would you still
stay in that organization, and they're like, well, yeah, I
would stay because they're doing something to fix it. The
problem is most organizations don't. They just allow this bad
(12:32):
leadership to fester and then until it becomes untenable because
everybody's left, or they need to fire that person, or
they just let it continue. So I was looking at
these seven roadblocks to go what gets in the way
of us being able to identify bad leaders or for
us to be able to fix these cracks in our culture.
So we don't have to go through all seven, but sure, whatever,
(12:53):
whatever we go down. The first roadblock I find is
the roadblock of negligence, which is the I'm too busy
sin right, and this is where we have And unfortunately,
most leaders fall within this one, and they are more
run by their calendar than they are run as leaders.
And I would argue most that are running from meeting
(13:14):
to meeting aren't leaders. They are cogs in a wheel
because they are barely breathing because their only respite is
that fifteen minute lunch. They might get that they're fighting
that nobody puts a meeting in, right, But your team's like,
I don't have any time with you. You provide no direction,
You provide no insight into what you want and how
(13:34):
you want it, unless it's that five seconds between the
next thing you have to do. So the greatest gift
we can provide anybody as a leader is time. And
unfortunately leadership is being punished because the leader above them
needs to be great too. They need to provide barriers,
they need to provide that sandbox in which leaders need
(13:54):
to play, and unfortunately calendars do not do that because
it becomes so packed that to your point, they become
managers managing of their time, managing of the next to do,
rather than leading a team because they don't have the time,
but they use it as an excuse to get in
the way of being good leaders.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
Okay, that is an amazing point. I do want to
cover as made as I can. Let's grab our first break,
so that's the first one to kick us off. There,
I'm your host, doctor Release Cortez. We've got on the
air with Russell Lollicker, who has held successful leadership and
communication roles for almost twenty five years, and his work
and expertise in building employees and customer trust has been
(14:32):
recognized on international stages all over the world. We've been
talking a bit about just what is leadership, and now
we're getting into the first point of some roadblocks. After break,
we're going to cover some more. We'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Doctor Elise Cortez is a manager and consultant specializing in
meaning and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author, she helps
companies visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose
inspired leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance,
and commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to
invite a lease to speak to your organization, please visit
(15:19):
her at elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to
get your employees working on purpose. This is working on
Purpose with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today
or to open a conversation with Elise, send an email
to Elise A Lisee at elisecortes dot com. Now back
(15:43):
to working on Purpose.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Thank you for Jane with us, and welcome back to
Working on Purpose. I'm your host, doctor Elise Cortes, as
I am dedicated to helping create a world where people
realize their potential at work. Are let bite those inspiration
leaders we've been talking about and those leaders actually help
them find and contribute their greatness, and we do business
at Betters in the world. I keep researching and writing
my own books. So my last one came out in
twenty twenty three. It's called The Great Revitalization out Activating
(16:13):
meaning and purpose can radically in liven your business. And
I'm root to help leaders understand the lay of today's land.
What does the workforce really want and need from them
to give their best and want to stay? And then
I offer twenty two best practices to help you build
that into your culture to create that for them. You
can find my books on Amazon or my personal site
at least quretest dot com if you are just now
joining us. My guest is Russell Lollocker, an international speaker
(16:35):
and the host producer of the Relationship at Work podcast,
The Guide to Building workplace connections and avoiding leadership blind spots.
Just what we're getting into, Okay, So that first one
of the idea of they're not they're just managing their calendar.
So to me, one thing that I can think of
so that we can help our listeners in yours. What
we do about that is we build and we block
(16:55):
off time that looks like we're busy, but it's actually
meant for our people. Yeah.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
Absolutely, boundaries are where you show your leadership here, and
I mean that boundaries against pressures of that are coming
from all sides. As a leader were pulled in seventeen
million directions. That includes the person that we're reporting to,
and we need to be passionate about keeping those boundaries.
And I block off time all the time. I think
that's one of the but then be precious about it.
(17:23):
You can't move it around, you can't. So from my experience,
actually my team that I kept for about twelve years
was the exact same team I had in my calendar.
A half hour with them that would not be moved.
It was only for them. Ever, for them, they led it.
It could be about work, it could be about performance career,
it could be some of the troubles they were having
(17:44):
at home. Whatever it was. I provided the space and
they filled it to the point where I actually tried
to cancel it once. I'm like, you know what, I
don't know if these are working. And it was like pitchforks.
They were so because I mean, you don't me wrong.
We talked all the time, but this was sort of
so special and precious to them that this was some
(18:07):
personal interaction, relationship building moment that they could count on
and frequency is really up to you in that team member,
but the value is making sure that it exists.
Speaker 3 (18:19):
Awesome, Okay, let's talk about Let's hit as many of
these roadbooks as we can. Joining This is really useful
for our listeners and viewers. Number two, what is it? Roadblock?
Speaker 4 (18:27):
Oh, this is one is in their own way. Yeah,
I think that one of the next one is an
interesting one too. It's called the road roadblock of abandonment.
And this is where we get into that, uh, the
quiet quitting or as I call checkbox leadership. It's so
hilarious to me that leadership and organizations got so upset
(18:48):
a couple of years ago that employees were quiet quitting.
They were just doing the job description. They were not
doing anything more. Leaders have been doing this for years.
They've been task managers because again we go back to
being too busy. But they also don't know what those
next steps are. And this kind of plays into our
previous conversations about what a manager is versus what a
(19:09):
leader is. And the jump into leadership involves beyond the checkbox. Okay,
I did that today. I did that today. It's We're
not a to do list. Humans are not to do lists.
We're not a calendar. I'll give you an example this.
I was at the Work Human Conference last year covering
it as part of my podcast Relationships at Work, and
(19:31):
it was really about what I'm learning, and I was
writing about, you know, some of the great speakers they had,
and working with a lot of the HR professionals that
were there and getting to know them and their challenges.
The most impactful thing that happened to me was overhearing
a conversation. I was in the hallway and I was
listening to and obviously an HR professional that was calling
back to their office and speaking to their colleague, maybe
(19:52):
their boss. I didn't know. She was going off about
how amazing this conference were. These were my people. I
feel so connect did, I'm learning so much, all great
things until she got to that last sentence. And I
have no idea what I'm going to do with it
when I get back to the office. So from what
I'm hearing, is her boss or her boss's boss said Hey,
(20:16):
let's send somebody to a conference because it's leadership development.
Quote unquote. Will we follow up when she gets back, nope?
Will there be a learning plan with the information she provides? Nope?
But look, we did leadership development check box.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
We fall into that so often of not doing anything
more than what is the bare minimum required so we
can call ourselves a leader and the organization can call
ourselves a leader.
Speaker 3 (20:42):
Wow, that was an amazing story to illustrate that. Okay,
next roadblock.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
Oh, sure, absolutely, the roadblock of deceit. This is where
we have words not meeting the actions of the organization.
We sure like putting values on a poster. Oh my goodness,
we love putting them on a website, but we don't
do anything with them. We don't use them in hiring,
we don't use them to follow up in performance reviews.
(21:12):
It's it's shocking how much what we say doesn't match
the the conversation that we're having. And that goes back
to my earlier point of a leader is Simon Sinek
Brene Brown. These human, vulnerable leaders. But what we reward,
what we promote? What we you know, the more work
rewarded for more work that is completely different than what
(21:36):
we're saying. And it happens all the time, I did
an interview with a gentleman on my podcast who had
a great story where they talked about he worked at
Hershey's and they actually had a supervisors were given an allowance,
given given a budget that they could reward staff every
time they saw them exemplify the values of the organization.
(21:58):
It was like Hershey Boxer, something that was really important
within the organization, but it was the their feet hit
the ground about what values looked like. And unfortunately in organizations,
we're so busy talking about what ideals are, but we're
not actually putting into practice what those look like, so
that our own employees don't really know what it looks
(22:19):
like to show up.
Speaker 3 (22:20):
Wow. So that's very powerful, this idea of just seat
you know. So I think that's really just I think
that's really important. In other words, walk the talk right
and match sure your actions with your communication.
Speaker 4 (22:32):
Oh yeah, absolutely, And I would say communication is one
of the strongest superpowers you can have as great or
great communications as a great leader. And if you're communicating
something that is not being followed up, trust is broken.
Within that gap between what you say and what you do.
Employees aren't dumb, they're sitting there going I can't trust
(22:52):
you if I can't believe what the words coming out
of your mouth, and I believe I believe that for
a bad leader and for the organization.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
Yeah, yeah, this is a great Russell. What's next? What's
the next roadblock? I'm loving this. I'ming all kinds of things.
Speaker 4 (23:06):
Another roadblock I find is the one for cowardice. And
this is where leaders, and i'll put air quotes. Leaders
are afraid of conflict. This is where they sit in
their office. This is where they never walk another floor
that doesn't exist where their office isn't. They don't build relationships.
(23:28):
They are or if they hear something is happening it's bad,
like oh we have some issues with one of your staff,
they're like, oh, it'll work itself out, or they'll say
that they they'll delegate that conflict resolution outside them themselves.
They don't take anything on which is not relationship building.
(23:48):
I remember talking to one executive where they were asking
me like, how do I build relationships beyond the two
people that come talk to me all the time? Leave
your damn office Like he's it was literally complaining that
the only people he got to talk to are his
two admin's staff, and I'm like, whose fault is that
that is yours? Go talk to somebody that doesn't have
(24:10):
a lofty title like you sit in there cubicle. Ask
them about their day, Ask them what they do for
a living, Ask you know, what do they do in
the organization. It's value to them. Like this is where
we get out of our comfort zones and actually put
ourselves out in an environment that might be a conflict
that might make us have to be vulnerable instead of
(24:31):
this protective layer that a closed door provides for a leader.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
I have to tell a story that I don't think
I've ever told on air in the ten years of
an host in the show speaking of conflict at work.
I worked let's see the late nineties, mid nineties in Portland, Oregon.
At that time, I was selling I was working for
this baking distributions. It was a flower company and it
had a distribution side. When I was a sales manager
(24:58):
for the Fisian side and I had a small sales
team there. And the woman who hired me. At first
she was she was great to work with, but then
I really realized we had a major, major personality conflict.
She really was just it was oil and water, and
I mean, and she anytime that I did anything that
she didn't like, she she set up this set of
barbs around and it was just so hard and overwhelming
(25:20):
for me to work with her. But I liked working
for the company and I just didn't know how to
handle that conflict with her. And so I the company
was headquartered in Seattle, Washington, and so I called her,
emailed the president who I had some kind of a
relationship with, and said, can I come and see you?
And I drove up to Seattle, and when I do
(25:42):
his office, had a conversation and I did what you
know most women don't ever want to do. You know
what that is. I fell. I fell into a pile
of tears. As I've said, you know, I really love
working here and I love what we're doing, but I
just don't know how I can work for this woman,
and I don't what, I don't know what I'll to do,
and that's why I'm here. And then I started, you know,
(26:03):
the tears came, and then he said, you know, give
me a couple of weeks, let me see what I
can do. And what he did, since kind of goes
back to what you were saying before they didn't intervene
with her because she really was harsh and very very
very strong boundaries. What happened at the resolution of that conflict,
Russell was, I got promoted to a bigger job in Seattle,
(26:23):
and so I and I got to come to my
I want had a dream to live in Seattle. So
it all happened. It all worked out really well. But
we you know, so that one same leader who was
toxic and you know, negative, nothing was done to help
her get out of that. To your earlier point.
Speaker 4 (26:40):
It worked out great for you, It didn't work out
great for the organization, right right.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
Well, later on this organization actually went bankrupt. They didn't
They went out of business on me. That isn't that funny?
How those that? That seems to be an interesting huh. Anyway, Okay,
what's the next roadblock?
Speaker 4 (26:58):
Oh? The next one I I think we're going to
jump into. It's the roadblack of apathy is where there's
a lack of follow up or any type of curiosity,
where leaders will just make assumptions rather than digging below
the surface. I love the term. There is an amazing
book called Manifesto for a Moral Revolution Jacqueline novograts. She
(27:24):
talks about a thing called arrogant assumption. So I love
framing it in that way, is that we will just
make assumptions as leaders and then stick to it without
any curiosity beyond that. For example, say you get a
survey that doesn't provide you the answers that you want. Oh, well,
that was just a moment in time. It'll be fine.
(27:45):
You're making an assumption that it is a symptom, not
the disease. You're just looking at a point and making
sure that that is not the bigger problem, because that's
what you want to assume, because it makes your life easier.
I remember talking to a group of executives and I
was talking about the gap and the growing gap between
what executives think and what leaders what employees know, Like
(28:09):
there's and believe me, there's so many studies if you
would want to google that out, is that there's this
growing divide. And unfortunately, there was a leader in the
room that said and cross their arms. What they did
it love body language. That can't be true. That's not
how I see things that that can't possibly be true.
Thank goodness for the person beside them who was doing
(28:31):
a quick google search and is like, uh, yeah, it's
actually very very true, very very very very true. But
if that person hadn't corrected them, that so called leader
would have sat there in their assumptions, not been curious
at all, and go, no, my way of thinking must
be right, because that's what I believe, because to believe
otherwise makes it like I have to do work, like
(28:53):
I have to do more than white quitting or checkbox
leadership or management. Right. So it's it's a thing that
just breaks my heart, and it happens over and over again.
I remember talking to another executive and literally telling them
that they weren't a safe space in a meeting. They
weren't getting any feedback from me because they were not
a safe space. It made the meeting extremely awkward because
(29:16):
there were other people in the meeting besides this, for me,
no follow up nothing. I never heard from that leader
again to follow up with a meeting, going so what
did you mean by that? What can we work on?
What's the opportunity here? Nothing? They just put their head
in the sand and go, Okay, it's probably not what
I believe, so it must not be true, moving out.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
Right right right? Oh my gosh, I totally want to
come into that. But let's grab our last break. But
I want to share one thing about that that's so fascinating.
I'm your host, Doctor Relies Cortes Wood on the air
with Russell Lolloker, who has held successful leadership and communication
roles for almost twenty five years. His work has been
recognized on your national stages because he's that good. We've
been talking a bit about some of the roadblocks that
(29:57):
get in our own way as leaders. After the break,
we're going to cover more. Be right back.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
Doctor Elise Cortes is a management consultant specializing in meaning
and purpose. An inspirational speaker and author, she helps companies
visioneer for greater purpose among stakeholders and develop purpose inspired
leadership and meaning infused cultures that elevate fulfillment, performance, and
commitment within the workforce. To learn more or to invite
a lease to speak to your organization, please visit her
(30:37):
at Elisecortes dot com. Let's talk about how to get
your employees working on purpose. This is working on purpose
with doctor Elise Cortes. To reach our program today or
to open a conversation with Elise, send an email to
Elise A. L. I se at Elisecortes dot com. Now
(31:01):
back to working on Purpose.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
Inkteresting with this and welcome back to working on Purpose.
I'm your host, Doctor Release Cortes. I mentioned in the
last break that my latest book came out called a
Great Revialization. What I did for you as I created
a three page simple assessment that's sitting on my website
at gustodeshnow dot com, and that will help you understand
the extent to which you are meeting the standards of
today's discerning workforce. It'll give you twenty two of those
(31:29):
best projects so you can evaluate against them if you
are just now joining us. My guest is Russell Lolloker.
He's an international speaker and the host and producer of
the Relationships at Work podcast, the guide to building workplace
connection and avoiding leadership blind Spots. So what I wanted
to comment on this idea of apathy. This is so interesting.
I am my next guest that I'm coming that's coming
(31:49):
on my podcast. Her name is Amana Morales and she's
written a book called The Flexibility Paradigm, and essentially what
she's talking about, she's advocating for, you know, obviously flexible
work arrangements to be able to accommodate more of the
workforce and allow their whole lives to work. And she
makes such a great point back to your apathy piece
(32:09):
of where she's talking with leaders. They're like, well, what
are you talking about? Everything works fine around here and
so and she was saying an example of, well, you know,
the only way for me to get this one assignment
done was if I actually took it home and did it,
you know, during the course of the evening. And so
I brought it up to my boss that while this
might be kind of hard for me, It's like, what
(32:30):
do you mean, just go home and do the assignment.
And she said, well, I actually have a family that
I'm going to be cooking for and reading too and
bathing and putting to bed, and then I would like
to actually connect with my partner at some point as well.
And she says, who does those things for you? I mean,
she said, my wife. Well, I don't have a wife.
So this idea that my world, in whatever my world is,
(32:52):
is everybody else's world, I think that is a screaming
mess all the time for people that they're so stuck
in their own minds as this is how the work
world works, because it's the way my world works, and
is disastrous for people who are actually trying to be
effective as leaders.
Speaker 4 (33:09):
Couldn't agree more. I it's they're stuck in their own bubble.
And it also comes back to that whole I'm too
busy because and I don't have the capacity to learn
about my teams, learn about my other leaders I'm responsible for.
It's such a crutch to lean on. But then again,
we then call these people leaders when they're not. They
don't have the capacity, they're not doing the characteristics that
(33:32):
we know to be leaders.
Speaker 3 (33:34):
Right, Yeah, I love this, Russell. Okay, out of lost count,
we're which which how many of these have we gone through? Pods?
Speaker 4 (33:41):
I do the same thing. No, we've got five, We've
got two more to go.
Speaker 3 (33:43):
Okay, let's hit them. Let's hit them. Well, let's hit
your blind spots.
Speaker 4 (33:47):
Let's hit the one that I think moves very easily
into the conversation we just had, which is the roadblock
of confusion. We're talking about cognitive dissonance. This is where
leaders know something is a problem, but do things anyway.
I'll tell you this, it's a matter of not going
below the surface. It does lead into curiosity, but it's
(34:10):
also this deflection because it's not their experience within the organization.
I remember talking to a colleague about my experience with
a horrible leader, and I'm looking for compassion, I'm looking
for empathy. I'm looking for some sort of even just
listening at this point. But my colleague, who I adore
(34:31):
and love them as a person, I've never been led
by them, so I don't know if they're good leaders
or not. That's the one thing. We can't just assume
good people are good leaders. But he came back to
me and said, that's not my experience. They've been great
with me. So they dismissed everything I had set up
to that point because we go back to my original story.
They got me what I wanted when I wanted it,
(34:53):
so they must be a great leader. So my experience
can't be validated, it can't have any residents because it's
not the experience they've had. So the story they're telling
in their mind is one even if they've heard it
from their people. They're like, I've heard that, but it
can't be as bad as people think because it's not
my experience. So that hurts and undervalues. A lot of
(35:16):
employees who want to be vulnerable, want to be honest,
want to share their experiences, and then find this brick
wall from so called leaders because no, it can't be
true because it's just not my experienced.
Speaker 3 (35:29):
You know, I have to weigh on that one too, Russell,
This is so amazing. I love this conversation. You just
can't go away as my one of my major major
pet peeves and heartbreaks in the world of work. And
what I get to do helping organizations build their cultures
and their teams is I see all the time and
I know you do too, where a manager will say, well,
(35:50):
so and so, Russell, you know, he's just he's just
you know, he's just a bad news guy. You know,
he just he just you can't do anything with Russell's.
And they put this label on on these people who
say the non performer, not good, don't promote kind of thing,
and then that gets picked up and passed around and
conveyed to various people, and pretty soon this person now
(36:11):
has this big target on them as you know, not promotable,
not good, whatever, when in reality it's just a reflection
of their unique relationship wherein if that person went to
somebody else, reported to somebody else, they could be it
showed entirely differently and better. And that's this happened to
me many times where I've been told, oh, don't hire
this person there are they are awful, and I've hired
(36:34):
them and the person's working with me. Now, Lydia, that's you.
It's just a rock star. She's just a rock star.
And so it's so important that we are that we
are aware of how we're labeling people and how we're
seeing and relating to our people. Just so important.
Speaker 4 (36:50):
I remember also talking to a leader who is responsible
to a board, and I was sitting down with that leader,
I think, yeah, and then they were saying how that
board was horrible, they were impossible to get through. They
didn't listen to any ideas, and I'm like, who talks
to the board? Well, I do nobody else. No, maybe
it's a you thing. Maybe you're the problem, not the board,
(37:11):
because there's seven different individuals. You're one person. I see
the common denominator here being you. But that comes to
self awareness, that comes to situational awareness. But yeah, I
find that and I myself as well. To your point,
I've had some people labeled problems and I've had them.
I'm like, they're phenomenal. They just need to be listened to.
(37:34):
They need to be led, not managed. Which back to
our earlier point.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
Mm hmm, so good. Okay, do we get a mall?
Or is there one more?
Speaker 4 (37:41):
One more, one more.
Speaker 3 (37:42):
Let's get it.
Speaker 4 (37:44):
It's it's the roadblock of irresponsibility. We talk about responsibility
in the workplace a lot, and we can see it
in a job description. These are the things I'm responsible for.
Sure leadership will be in there, but it seems like
a keyword exercise and actually defining what leadership is within
the job description. So where this roadblock exists is in
(38:05):
the lack of accountability responsibility. Sure, we know what our
job is, we know what we have to deliver, but
are we accountable to the results? Are we accountable to
the people that we as leaders are responsible for? And
where I see this being most impactful when it comes
to leadership and leadership ecosystems being broken, is that we
will identify bad leaders. We're very quick to going, hey,
(38:28):
they're a problem, they need to be worked on. Their
staff will say so, but we never look at their boss,
the person that hired them. The person that was responsible
for coaching and mentoring them, the person that had performance
reviews with them quarterly, yearly. However, why are they not
held accountable for the horrible leader that they allowed perpetuate,
(38:51):
they allowed to hurt the culture. Instead we go bad leader.
We need to get rid of the bad leader. No,
that's a symptom, not the disease. The disease is how
is that person brought in given that responsibility, not kept
in check, not coach, not mentored, And yet we want
to focus on the easy fix rather than the accountability problem.
Speaker 3 (39:16):
So so good, Russell. In fact, I will say I'm
so proud. There are a few people that I've coached
for years and gotten to see them that really developed
their careers. And in most of the cases they have
shared with me over the years of how they have
gotten a new employee, and they've been able to give
them some very specific feedback, constructive feedback about their performance
(39:39):
and where there's gaps and where their opportunities for them
to grow. And where it gets really interesting is what
their their feedback. Their constant feedback is what what are
you talking about? No one has ever told me that before.
In other words, it can't be true because nobody else
has ever told told me that. Well, actually it is true.
No one else ever had the courage or the skills
to tell you that, or care to enough to tell you.
(40:01):
So I just there's so much that goes into as
it's just so good. And you know, as you know, Russell,
I believe in the world of work. That's why I'm
an organizational psychologist. It's the playground of life. And yet
there's so much we can do to improve the experience
for everyone. I love these these blind spots that you've
been sharing with us. This is this. I think this
really helps our listeners and viewers get a much better understanding.
(40:22):
But what do we mean by management? What do we
mean by leadership? What does it actually take? Greatness? Okay,
so we have just a few more minutes here left
on and I just want to be able to hit
a few of these ingredients to trust driven leadership that
you've mentioned that you want to talk about. So let's
hear about a few of those and then we'll be
done here in about five minutes.
Speaker 4 (40:42):
Oh all good. I think the thing is is that
if you want to build actual relationships, trust needs to
be the DNA in which must operate, have to have
to and yet we treat it like it's another when
we get into the workplace, like the ingredients to building
trust with your friends and family is somehow this different
strategic plan initiative. Once we turn on a computer or
(41:05):
walk through a door, it's the same damn thing. It's
are you being true to your word? Is what back
to my you know sins and roadblocks earlier? Are what
you say matching your actions in the workplace? Are you
communicating effectively? Are you building it over time? Because trust
is not built in a day. It is a long
(41:25):
game that we have to build as leaders every single day.
Trust is built in moments, not in grand gestures. Are
we consistent? That's a huge piece is are we the
same person on Tuesday that we are on Wednesday? And
in how we interact with other people? Are we making
an effort? Are we being honest and transparent or making
(41:45):
an effort to help people? Like these are ingredients that
you would ask people you know, you would demand of
a friend of yours, instead of people that are asking
you to call you instead of wanting something like most
leaders are, I want you to do something. I want
you to do this, How can I help you? What can
I do to create an environment for you? It's just
it's this weird. Trust is another when it comes to
(42:07):
the workplace that I really think we have to get
rid of and go. Have you ever made a friend,
but you have you ever made any connection in your life? Well,
what skills did you bring? What intention did you bring
in that day to day long term relationship building? Bring
that to work. Stop looking at it as a check
box exercise, you know, actually put effort into it. And
(42:30):
the one thing I want to also flip on that
is that we talk about trust like it's all encompassing
and a good thing. Trust can also be bad. I've
had leaders where I trust them not to have my back,
I trust them not to champion me, I trust them
not to support me, and that is also trust, But
it is certainly not the direction we want to go.
And that's where we have to be intention and actually
(42:52):
real leaders here.
Speaker 3 (42:54):
You know. It's just I'm working with the origination right now,
helping them because they've got some trust issues, and it's
so amazing.
Speaker 4 (43:00):
Right.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
Trust is the great delineator of results, right, I mean,
if we got if we can do, if we've got
the trust, we can do all kinds of things, and
it's so interesting. Once it's gone, it's like it's just
like it's gone, and so finding a way to get
it back and that's been some of my most interesting
precious work wrestles, getting to work with organizations to bring
them together or I can help broker the conversation around
(43:22):
where did it fall apart? How do I, why do
I feel the way that I do, and what can
we do to try to get it back on track? Oh,
and it's hard, and sometimes it takes, you know, getting
somebody who's either a third party or somebody else that
isn't as vested in the outcome as as the team
itself is to help bring that together. And it's some
of the most precious work I've ever gotten to do.
Speaker 4 (43:44):
I totally agree, And I think we also need to
look beyond what we trust in front of ourselves. And
that's where the curiosity comes in, because some leaders will go,
I can trust them, they're a rock star. Do you
know what they're sacrificing to deliver what you want? Do
you know how much burnout they're dealing with? Right Rightsting
them for delivery, You're not knowing the person and they'll
probably leave or have some serious mental health issues if
(44:07):
we don't dig a little deeper.
Speaker 3 (44:08):
Yeah, and then that's when we get to surprise. And
what do you mean you're leaving? Yeah? Exactly. So Russell
has been a complete delight to have you on this podcast,
and it's so great to have me on the other
mic with you, other end of the mic with you.
Thank you for coming on, working in purpose fast, last
few pearls here, seeing thirty seconds you want to close
the show with.
Speaker 4 (44:26):
I think, if anything, I can impart as a leader.
I love leaders. They're just not provided the training and
development they need, and they're thrown in to do way
too much, way too quickly. I think, if anything, the
first step is any good leader is self awareness. I
think if you know yourself and how you show up
and how you handle emotions, how you build relationships, the
better you know yourself is the best foundation you can
(44:48):
start to being a better leader.
Speaker 3 (44:49):
Amen, brother, So with you, what a delight, Russell, So
glad to know you. Listeners and viewers, you're also going
to want to know this man. So I'm going to
send you to two different websites for you to check
him out. You can go to his personal se It's
Russell Lollocker. Let me spell that for you. It's Russell
with one L are U S s E L Lollocker
l O L A c h E R Russell Lollocker
(45:11):
dot com one L or his podcast is Relationship Relationships
at workshow dot com. Either way you can find him there,
check them out. Thanks for joining us, and see you
next week for another inspiring episode. And remember, work is
one of the best adventures and means of realizing our
potential and making the impact we crave. So let's work
on Purpose.
Speaker 2 (45:33):
We hope you've enjoyed this week's program. Be sure to
tune into Working on Purpose featuring your host, doctor Elise Cortes,
each week on W four CY. Together we'll create a
world where business operates conscientiously, leadership inspires and passion performance,
and employees are fulfilled in work that provides the meaning
and purpose they crave. See you there, Let's work on Purpose.
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