Labour and National appear to be aligned on the Paris Climate Agreement.
Yesterday ACT called for New Zealand to leave unless the terms of the deal change, but the Prime Minister said no.
Labour's Chris Hipkins echoed Christopher Luxon, telling John MacDonald leaving the deal would cause more harm than good.
He says it would be a disaster for us – walking away from those commitments would mean people overseas would stop buying our products.
Hipkins says our largest export industries rely on New Zealand’s clean, green reputation.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald
from News Talk ZB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Chris Hepkins, Opposition and Labor leader.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Is with a skinner Chris, Good morning, John.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
All right, what's your response to the ACT Party wanting
New Zealand to pull out of the climate change the
Paris Climate Change Agreement.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Pulling out of the Paris Climate Change Agreement would be
a disaster for New Zealand. It would be a disaster
for our farmers, it would be a disaster for our exporters.
I think Christopher Lexon should show some leadership and rule
it out completely and say that national will never support
withdrawing from the Paris Agreement.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Okay, why would it be a disaster? To explain it,
I'm told I've told my audience for the past our way.
I think it would be a terrible bad thing for
New Zealand. But explain what you mean by a disaster,
because that's very easy to say.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Well, if you take let's take one of our largest
export industries, upon Terra and dairy industry exports. They rely
on New Zealand's clean green reputeation. The major consumers, the
people who are buying their products, actually need New Zealand
exporters under their contracts to be reducing their methane emissions
(01:18):
and their greenhouse gas emissions, and failure to do so
walking away from those commitments, I mean that people simply
stopped buying what New Zealand has to sell.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
All right, let me just put our.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
International trade agreements require us to do that. So the
European Union Free Trade Agreement, for example, says we have
to meet our Paris obligations as a condition for being
able to trade with Europe.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Right, I just wanted to clarify that because people raised
that last how they said, what if we left the
agreement but still committed to doing stuff? Would that be
good enough for our trade partners? And you're saying that
it wouldn't be.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
No, under the free Trade agreement with the European Union,
we have to meet our Paris obligations in order to
be able to trade with Europe.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
What about trading with the United States probably wouldn't matter
as much, would it.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Well, I mean, goodness only knows what trade with the
United States is going to look like in the next
few years. I mean, fifteen percent tariffs have already been
whacked on New Zealand. Who knows what's going to happen,
you know, a week from now, a little alone, a
couple of years from now.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
All right, I think the whole country was scratching its
head the other day Chris when the results of the
IPSOS Issues Monitor survey came out and said that of
the twenty issues, the top twenty issues facing the country,
labor and all the Greens into Pardi Mardi would be
best managed to handle seventeen of them. How can you
get that result when you've got no policy out there?
Speaker 3 (02:37):
I think the only people scratching the head of the
people who work at new Stalk Sead be.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Oh, I don't know about that, Well, hold on them
and it tried the fourteen hundred people that responded to
the single Facebook post about it.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
The reality is the country is turning its back on
the current government. They're not getting what they voted for.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
But how can you do that?
Speaker 3 (02:54):
But how can I fix everything? And he's making everything worse?
Speaker 2 (02:56):
All right? So how are you going to fix seventeen
or the twenty things? How you've come with You've got
no solutions that somehow people think you're the one to
do it.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
I've been really clear that Labour's priorities are jobs, health,
homes and re election on the cost of living, and
that's what New Zealanders want to see the government focus.
This government distracted by everything but those issues. I think
that's the reason that people are looking now at Labor
and saying, well, we think you would be better at
managing those because we've said that we will make what
(03:27):
we've said what we will make the priority.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Well, the government has announced that it wants to attract
investors and it wants them to be able to buy
five million or build five million dollar homes to if
they come here and stay for twenty one days over
three years. How does that equate to what you have
said in the past twenty four hours that that is
a betrayal of people who want to own their own home,
a betrayal of New Zealanders who want to own their
own home.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
How can you say that, because Kiwi homes should be
for Kiwis who wants to live here and wants to
make their life here, and not for people who might
come and visit here a couple of weeks of the year.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Yeah, so it's a betrayal of people who want to
buy five million or want to build five million dollar
homes because that's what it amounts to U, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
No.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
I'd encourage you, as a radio host to go and
read the Advice of the Treasury produced in twenty eighteen,
but said that house price inflation of prices at the
top end of the market has a cascading effect on
the entire housing market. So prices going up in that
five million dollar plus bracket pushes up the prices of
all housing.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
And from your recollections of that twenty eighteen advice, how
does that work.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
So basically what happens is there's two things that happen.
One is those who are buying five million dollar houses
who had New Zealanders who live here who want to
you have them as their home, get forced out of
that market, so they go into the next price bracket
down and they push up the price of those homes,
which means that people who are in that price bracket
go down into the next price bracket and they push
up the value of those homes. That's the first thing
(04:54):
that happens. The second thing that happens is that the
developers who are building homes start focusing on the multimillion
dollar houses. Not the affordable houses, so you end up
with fewer affordable houses being built. Tust trust the right
of the ones that are there.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
You know, as much as idea that the people that
build the flesh hearing places are not the place the
places that build your standard subdivision homes. You know that.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Well, no, because if you're sitting on a piece of
land and you've got a choice between whether you build
a five million dollar house on it or a number
of houses that would be sold for a more affordable price,
as the economics of your building the five million dollar
house steck up better, and that's what you do.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
You ripped into the Prime Minister yesterday calling him a
fig jam for claiming credit for the Amazon Data center announcement.
Are you starting to regret that because it's emerging this
morning that perhaps that that deal isn't as great as
you cried about at the time four years ago, And
as the Prime Minister was crying about.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Yesterday, well that's really a question for him.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
I mean, there's no data centers to show for it,
and there are some people saying instead of providing thousands
of jobs, it might be a few hundred at best,
even less, Like.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
All new Zealanders. I took the Prime Minister at his
words that him saying that he was opening data featers
that had been built by christ That he was actually
opening data centers that were built by Amazon. If I
haven't built them, then I think that's a double betrayal
by Christopher Lexan.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
So you something which was promised by Labor hasn't been delivered,
and we also put it that way.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
It wasn't It wasn't promised by Labor, it was promised
by Amazon and we welcomed that investment.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Heid he Henare was on the news last night and
he was asked whether he wants to be leader of
the Labor Party and he didn't rule it out. Here
can be giving him a ticking off.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
For that, Oh, that's ridiculous, John. He said very clearly
that he fully vecks me as leader of the Labor
Party next Prime Minister of New Zealander.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
He did say it's focus in the meantime was winning
the election. He did not rule out wanting to be
leader of the Labor Party.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
Oh, I think that's a very selective interpretation of what
he said. He was very clear that he was one
hundred percent behind me as leader of the Labor Party.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Why is that everybody seems to be asking him though,
whether he wants to be the leader.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Oh, it often happens in a by election, and you know,
Penny's running a great campaign and here's a strong representative
for Tamakimikodo. If people want to have a strong representative
of Tamakimikodo as the MP, then they should vote for.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Is the government doing the right thing offering to pay
for schools to put walls up and get rid of
the open plan classrooms.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
I think if they found the money for that, that's
a you know, that's a good thing for schools. We
gave schools extra money for maintenance that they could have
been on putting up more wolves if that's what they
chosen to do. So I'm not going to criticize them
for doing something that we ourselves had done.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
As an education minister, you didn't stop the open plan
classroom model, did you.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
We gave schools the choice, you didn't stop it classrooms.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
You didn't stop it. You didn't come out and say,
actually it's been a failed experiment, which is what the
current education minister is saying.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
When when I became Minister of Education, it was compulsory
for new schools to be built with an open plan classroom,
and froment I stopped there and said schools can have
the choice about how they designed their learning spaces, and
pretty much the vast majority of them, if not all
of them, went back to a more conventional classroom design.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
So do you agree with extra funding going into putting
walls up?
Speaker 4 (08:21):
I just see it extra funding a good sign.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
All right, Hey, catch up in a fortnite.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
All right, cheers John For more from Category Mornings with
John McDonald. Listen live to news Talks It'd be christ
Church from nine am weekdays, or follow the podcast on
iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald
from News Talk ZB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Chris Hepkins, Opposition and Labor leader.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Is with a skinner Chris, Good morning, John.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
All right, what's your response to the ACT Party wanting
New Zealand to pull out of the climate change the
Paris Climate Change Agreement.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
Pulling out of the Paris Climate Change Agreement would be
a disaster for New Zealand. It would be a disaster
for our farmers, it would be a disaster for our exporters.
I think Christopher Lexon should show some leadership and rule
it out completely and say that national will never support
withdrawing from the Paris Agreement.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Okay, why would it be a disaster? To explain it,
I'm told I've told my audience for the past our way.
I think it would be a terrible bad thing for
New Zealand. But explain what you mean by a disaster,
because that's very easy to say.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
Well, if you take let's take one of our largest
export industries, upon Terra and dairy industry exports. They rely
on New Zealand's clean green reputeation. The major consumers, the
people who are buying their products, actually need New Zealand
exporters under their contracts to be reducing their methane emissions
(01:18):
and their greenhouse gas emissions, and failure to do so
walking away from those commitments, I mean that people simply
stopped buying what New Zealand has to sell.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
All right, let me just put our.
Speaker 3 (01:29):
International trade agreements require us to do that. So the
European Union Free Trade Agreement, for example, says we have
to meet our Paris obligations as a condition for being
able to trade with Europe.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Right, I just wanted to clarify that because people raised
that last how they said, what if we left the
agreement but still committed to doing stuff? Would that be
good enough for our trade partners? And you're saying that
it wouldn't be.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
No, under the free Trade agreement with the European Union,
we have to meet our Paris obligations in order to
be able to trade with Europe.
Speaker 2 (01:59):
What about trading with the United States probably wouldn't matter
as much, would it.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Well, I mean, goodness only knows what trade with the
United States is going to look like in the next
few years. I mean, fifteen percent tariffs have already been
whacked on New Zealand. Who knows what's going to happen,
you know, a week from now, a little alone, a
couple of years from now.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
All right, I think the whole country was scratching its
head the other day Chris when the results of the
IPSOS Issues Monitor survey came out and said that of
the twenty issues, the top twenty issues facing the country,
labor and all the Greens into Pardi Mardi would be
best managed to handle seventeen of them. How can you
get that result when you've got no policy out there?
Speaker 3 (02:37):
I think the only people scratching the head of the
people who work at new Stalk Sead be.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Oh, I don't know about that, Well, hold on them
and it tried the fourteen hundred people that responded to
the single Facebook post about it.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
The reality is the country is turning its back on
the current government. They're not getting what they voted for.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
But how can you do that?
Speaker 3 (02:54):
But how can I fix everything? And he's making everything worse?
Speaker 2 (02:56):
All right? So how are you going to fix seventeen
or the twenty things? How you've come with You've got
no solutions that somehow people think you're the one to
do it.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
I've been really clear that Labour's priorities are jobs, health,
homes and re election on the cost of living, and
that's what New Zealanders want to see the government focus.
This government distracted by everything but those issues. I think
that's the reason that people are looking now at Labor
and saying, well, we think you would be better at
managing those because we've said that we will make what
(03:27):
we've said what we will make the priority.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Well, the government has announced that it wants to attract
investors and it wants them to be able to buy
five million or build five million dollar homes to if
they come here and stay for twenty one days over
three years. How does that equate to what you have
said in the past twenty four hours that that is
a betrayal of people who want to own their own home,
a betrayal of New Zealanders who want to own their
own home.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
How can you say that, because Kiwi homes should be
for Kiwis who wants to live here and wants to
make their life here, and not for people who might
come and visit here a couple of weeks of the year.
Speaker 2 (03:59):
Yeah, so it's a betrayal of people who want to
buy five million or want to build five million dollar
homes because that's what it amounts to U, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (04:06):
No.
Speaker 3 (04:06):
I'd encourage you, as a radio host to go and
read the Advice of the Treasury produced in twenty eighteen,
but said that house price inflation of prices at the
top end of the market has a cascading effect on
the entire housing market. So prices going up in that
five million dollar plus bracket pushes up the prices of
all housing.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
And from your recollections of that twenty eighteen advice, how
does that work.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
So basically what happens is there's two things that happen.
One is those who are buying five million dollar houses
who had New Zealanders who live here who want to
you have them as their home, get forced out of
that market, so they go into the next price bracket
down and they push up the price of those homes,
which means that people who are in that price bracket
go down into the next price bracket and they push
up the value of those homes. That's the first thing
(04:54):
that happens. The second thing that happens is that the
developers who are building homes start focusing on the multimillion
dollar houses. Not the affordable houses, so you end up
with fewer affordable houses being built. Tust trust the right
of the ones that are there.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
You know, as much as idea that the people that
build the flesh hearing places are not the place the
places that build your standard subdivision homes. You know that.
Speaker 3 (05:17):
Well, no, because if you're sitting on a piece of
land and you've got a choice between whether you build
a five million dollar house on it or a number
of houses that would be sold for a more affordable price,
as the economics of your building the five million dollar
house steck up better, and that's what you do.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
You ripped into the Prime Minister yesterday calling him a
fig jam for claiming credit for the Amazon Data center announcement.
Are you starting to regret that because it's emerging this
morning that perhaps that that deal isn't as great as
you cried about at the time four years ago, And
as the Prime Minister was crying about.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Yesterday, well that's really a question for him.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
I mean, there's no data centers to show for it,
and there are some people saying instead of providing thousands
of jobs, it might be a few hundred at best,
even less, Like.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
All new Zealanders. I took the Prime Minister at his
words that him saying that he was opening data featers
that had been built by christ That he was actually
opening data centers that were built by Amazon. If I
haven't built them, then I think that's a double betrayal
by Christopher Lexan.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
So you something which was promised by Labor hasn't been delivered,
and we also put it that way.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
It wasn't It wasn't promised by Labor, it was promised
by Amazon and we welcomed that investment.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Heid he Henare was on the news last night and
he was asked whether he wants to be leader of
the Labor Party and he didn't rule it out. Here
can be giving him a ticking off.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
For that, Oh, that's ridiculous, John. He said very clearly
that he fully vecks me as leader of the Labor
Party next Prime Minister of New Zealander.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
He did say it's focus in the meantime was winning
the election. He did not rule out wanting to be
leader of the Labor Party.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
Oh, I think that's a very selective interpretation of what
he said. He was very clear that he was one
hundred percent behind me as leader of the Labor Party.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Why is that everybody seems to be asking him though,
whether he wants to be the leader.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
Oh, it often happens in a by election, and you know,
Penny's running a great campaign and here's a strong representative
for Tamakimikodo. If people want to have a strong representative
of Tamakimikodo as the MP, then they should vote for.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Is the government doing the right thing offering to pay
for schools to put walls up and get rid of
the open plan classrooms.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
I think if they found the money for that, that's
a you know, that's a good thing for schools. We
gave schools extra money for maintenance that they could have
been on putting up more wolves if that's what they
chosen to do. So I'm not going to criticize them
for doing something that we ourselves had done.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
As an education minister, you didn't stop the open plan
classroom model, did you.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
We gave schools the choice, you didn't stop it classrooms.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
You didn't stop it. You didn't come out and say,
actually it's been a failed experiment, which is what the
current education minister is saying.
Speaker 3 (07:59):
When when I became Minister of Education, it was compulsory
for new schools to be built with an open plan classroom,
and froment I stopped there and said schools can have
the choice about how they designed their learning spaces, and
pretty much the vast majority of them, if not all
of them, went back to a more conventional classroom design.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
So do you agree with extra funding going into putting
walls up?
Speaker 4 (08:21):
I just see it extra funding a good sign.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
All right, Hey, catch up in a fortnite.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
All right, cheers John For more from Category Mornings with
John McDonald. Listen live to news Talks It'd be christ
Church from nine am weekdays, or follow the podcast on
iHeartRadio
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