August 5, 2025 • 8 mins
The Opposition leader says he's worried Police are retrenching from rural communities.
A planned staffing restructure could move some permanent posted rural officers move to work from 24/7 hubs in Rolleston and Rangiora.
Officer headcount won't drop.
Chris Hipkins told John MacDonald he's been through this in his own area, in Wellington's Upper Hutt.
He says it means Police presence reduces.
He says rural communities are being sold the same story it won't affect local policing but the reality is, it will.
The Labour leader says Minister Mark Mitchell was happy to see more Policing in Auckland city, and it’s time for the Minister to walk the talk and tell the Commissioner he wants rural areas better provisioned.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald
from News Talk ZB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Been a fortnight since we last spoke with Opposition and
Label leader Chrishipkins, which means today it's time for a
leader's catch up.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Chris goody, John, how are you very well?
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Are you a user of artificial intelligence?
Speaker 3 (00:28):
I've used check GPT from time to time, but I
can't say. I mean, I think this is built into
all of the apps and things that we use, so yeah,
I guess you could say, I am.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
How do you feel about it being used to mark exams?
Speaker 3 (00:42):
I think we do need to be open to that.
I think that perhaps we're not quite at the point
where I'd be comfortable wholest Bowlders and saying, yeah, do
the whole basically replace the teacher with artificial intelligence, which
seems to be where a reconcentives at at the moment.
I think artificial intelligence is a tool that can be
used in schools and we should be open to that.
But I think wholest Bowlders just saying it's you know,
(01:03):
this is going to happen and we're not I need
teachers to do this work anymore is perhaps a step
too far at this point.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
If you form the next government, what will you do
with n CEA, Will you bring it back?
Speaker 3 (01:17):
No? I think the direction of travel that the government
have set is actually not that far away from the
direction of travel that we were heading and following the
review that we did back pre COVID, A lot of
that went on hold as a result of COVID, and
then the current government continued to have it on hold.
But it was about narrowing things down a bit more,
making the subjects fewer subjects, more meaningful subjects, making sure
(01:40):
there were strengthening illiteracy and numerous the requirements, and ending
the grab bag of credits. I think those are all
the objectives of what the government are talking about now.
Those were our objectives of government as well.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
It would be far to say, wouldn't it that that
grab bag of credits ballooned during your time in government?
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Now? Actually I would say it was in the well. No, No,
absolutely rejects there. If anything we were trying to deal
with that it would have happened probably Actually wouldn't necessarily
want to apportion blame. It certainly happened under the Clark government.
It definitely happened under the Key government.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
You were Minister of Education at one point.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Yes, and for five years and the review that we
did said that the ballooning of credits was out of
control and we needed to do something about it, and
we were doing something about it.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
How did that start? Was that the schools doing it
on their under their own steam? Was it the Minister
of Education or what was it?
Speaker 3 (02:41):
I think partly it's psychology. It's basically, you know, you
say the kids, he has all these credits, and there's
almost like a race to accumulate credits, and kids basically
want to show, you know, that they're working hard and
that they are achieving things, so they basically end up
taking on in some cases twice as many credits as
they needed to do to actually get the qualification that
they were striving for. And schools and the education system
(03:06):
no point turned around and said, actually this is probably
isn't a good thing for the kids. And I think
it was well and truly time for that to be
dealt with.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
As for your former education minister, but you're also a
former police minister and very shortly will come to the
restructuring which is proposed here in Canterbury. But let's look
at another Canterbury specific thing. Megan Wood's not standing in
a wigram next to you, who is?
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Oh well, we'll go through a candidate selection process. So
nominations for that will open not long after the boundaries
are finalized. So the Electoral Commission's been reviewing the boundaries.
Once they're finalized, will be able to open up and
see who wants to be a candidate that I know
that there's a lot of interest.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Oh yeah, how many people have put their hand up
so far?
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Course she only made an announcement over the weekend, but
I know that there have been several people since then
who have expressed an interest in the seat.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Two three, four.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Oh. You never put a number on these things, Joss.
But you know people because some people would initially put
their hands up and then go away and think about it.
So I not don't want to do it. Other people
will subsequently come to the fore and so actually I've
thought about it and I want to have to crack
at it. So it's a very democratic process, the open nominations.
People can throw their hat in the ring and then
there's a selection.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
How would you say she's done compared to so, Jim Andsden.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
I mean Jim. Jim's head with very very big shoes
to fill. But I think Megan's been an outspoken advocate
for Wigram. She's still going to be a member of
the Labour team for a little while yet, you know,
she's indicated that she'll do at least another term as
a list MP. You know, that's that's something that I
think is a reasonable thing for someone who's been around
a while to want to do. And you know, I
(04:41):
think she's done a really good job.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Was it her choice or do you have a word
to her?
Speaker 3 (04:47):
No, No, it was absolutely her choice. We had a
conversation about it after the election, as I did with
all of our MPs, and Megan indicated that she didn't
want to stick around probably for another six years, but
that she probably had another three in her after this.
And I've said fair enough, all right.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Later on this morning, you're going to be speaking to
the Big Infrastructure Zealand Building Nations Conference. What's your message
going to be?
Speaker 3 (05:11):
My message is going to be that by partisanship, you know,
we've heard the call for bipartisanship and that we committed
to doing that, but that's going to require a compromise
on both sides and at the moment, I think the
government are talking about the need for bipartisanship, but they're
not actually walking the talk. And so you know, I've
said pretty clearly we hear that we don't want to
see the stop start nature of all these big infrastructure
(05:33):
projects that we've seen over the last decade or so,
because it just flows everything down, makes everything more expensive
and the country doesn't move forward.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
What's the compromise you're expecting.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Well, I mean, I think compromise means you don't say
this is what we're doing as a government, the opposition
should just support everything we're doing. That means you sit
around the table and you actually come up with some
agreed priorities together, and it means you won't get everything
that you want, but nor will the opposition either. There
will have to be compromised. But I think if we
did that, then we're not going to see the stop
start nature of infrastructure which has been really damaging to
(06:05):
the country.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Doesn't it saym that if we say you know, you're
one side and say Nationals the other side, you're both
saying the same, aren't you. We want to work together.
But as long as you do it to our tune.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Exactly, and I'm saying I'm willing to compromise on that.
I'm willing to accept that there are going to be
projects that they want to do that are the priority
for us. But that means that they have to accept
that there will be a few projects that we want
to see on the list which might not be a
priority for them.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
All right, I want to get your views on the
restructuring of the rural police in Canterbury. Just before ten
I spoke with Tony Hill, who's the district commander, and
he outlined a couple of things in their proposal, more
road policing and having rural liaison officers who will work
during daylight hours. Does that sound like a watered down
(06:51):
operation to you?
Speaker 3 (06:54):
Yeah. I am really worried that the police seem to
be retrenching from their presence in rural communities. I know
that those local community police in rural communities are often
right at the heart of those local communities, and you know,
I think that this is a watering down. Now the
Police Commissioner makes these decisions rather than the government, so
I fully acknowledge that. But the government, we're only too
(07:16):
happy to intervene to tell the Police Commissioner they needed
to put more cops on the beat in Central Auckland.
So I think it's probably time for Mark Mitchell too
once again walk the talk and say to the Police
commission that he wants rural communities to be better provisioned.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Do you think it's disingenuous for the police to be
saying or we're we're not shutting down the colvid and
station for example, but it seems there aren't going to
be cops based there and there are going to be
these rural the aison officers treving there to do their
day's work.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Oh look, I've been through this in my own area,
you know, where they amalgamated the Lower Heart and the
Upper Up police forces and they said, oh, we're not
We're not taking anything away from Upper Hat. Now, if
a call out happens, most likely the police are dispatched
from Lower Heart if not from Wellington Central. And it
does mean that the police have a less of a
presence here and Upper Hut. And I think that rural
communities are now being sold the same story that we
(08:03):
can water this all down, it won't affect you like
your local policing. The reality is it will.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
We've had local Federated farmers and other people speaking out
about this and their meetings tonight. What's your message to
those people that are upset about this?
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Talk to Mark Mitchell. You know, he likes to claim
credit for more police on the beat and more frontline
policing and so on. He was happy to claim credit
for having more police walking up and down Queen Street.
So what put it to him? Why isn't he going
to do something for rural communities. He's been very happy
to intervene in police operational matters in the past where
it suits his political purpose. Rural communities are strongly supportive
(08:42):
of national and I think they're being betrayed if Mark
Mitchell won't do anything about the fact that their police
are being taken away.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
All right, Chris catch up in the fortnite That is
Opposition and labor leader Chriscepkins.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
For more from Caterbory Mornings with John McDonald. Listen live
to news Talks It'd be christ Church from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald
from News Talk ZB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Been a fortnight since we last spoke with Opposition and
Label leader Chrishipkins, which means today it's time for a
leader's catch up.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
Chris goody, John, how are you very well?
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Are you a user of artificial intelligence?
Speaker 3 (00:28):
I've used check GPT from time to time, but I
can't say. I mean, I think this is built into
all of the apps and things that we use, so yeah,
I guess you could say, I am.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
How do you feel about it being used to mark exams?
Speaker 3 (00:42):
I think we do need to be open to that.
I think that perhaps we're not quite at the point
where I'd be comfortable wholest Bowlders and saying, yeah, do
the whole basically replace the teacher with artificial intelligence, which
seems to be where a reconcentives at at the moment.
I think artificial intelligence is a tool that can be
used in schools and we should be open to that.
But I think wholest Bowlders just saying it's you know,
(01:03):
this is going to happen and we're not I need
teachers to do this work anymore is perhaps a step
too far at this point.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
If you form the next government, what will you do
with n CEA, Will you bring it back?
Speaker 3 (01:17):
No? I think the direction of travel that the government
have set is actually not that far away from the
direction of travel that we were heading and following the
review that we did back pre COVID, A lot of
that went on hold as a result of COVID, and
then the current government continued to have it on hold.
But it was about narrowing things down a bit more,
making the subjects fewer subjects, more meaningful subjects, making sure
(01:40):
there were strengthening illiteracy and numerous the requirements, and ending
the grab bag of credits. I think those are all
the objectives of what the government are talking about now.
Those were our objectives of government as well.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
It would be far to say, wouldn't it that that
grab bag of credits ballooned during your time in government?
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Now? Actually I would say it was in the well. No, No,
absolutely rejects there. If anything we were trying to deal
with that it would have happened probably Actually wouldn't necessarily
want to apportion blame. It certainly happened under the Clark government.
It definitely happened under the Key government.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
You were Minister of Education at one point.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
Yes, and for five years and the review that we
did said that the ballooning of credits was out of
control and we needed to do something about it, and
we were doing something about it.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
How did that start? Was that the schools doing it
on their under their own steam? Was it the Minister
of Education or what was it?
Speaker 3 (02:41):
I think partly it's psychology. It's basically, you know, you
say the kids, he has all these credits, and there's
almost like a race to accumulate credits, and kids basically
want to show, you know, that they're working hard and
that they are achieving things, so they basically end up
taking on in some cases twice as many credits as
they needed to do to actually get the qualification that
they were striving for. And schools and the education system
(03:06):
no point turned around and said, actually this is probably
isn't a good thing for the kids. And I think
it was well and truly time for that to be
dealt with.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
As for your former education minister, but you're also a
former police minister and very shortly will come to the
restructuring which is proposed here in Canterbury. But let's look
at another Canterbury specific thing. Megan Wood's not standing in
a wigram next to you, who is?
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Oh well, we'll go through a candidate selection process. So
nominations for that will open not long after the boundaries
are finalized. So the Electoral Commission's been reviewing the boundaries.
Once they're finalized, will be able to open up and
see who wants to be a candidate that I know
that there's a lot of interest.
Speaker 2 (03:43):
Oh yeah, how many people have put their hand up
so far?
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Course she only made an announcement over the weekend, but
I know that there have been several people since then
who have expressed an interest in the seat.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Two three, four.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
Oh. You never put a number on these things, Joss.
But you know people because some people would initially put
their hands up and then go away and think about it.
So I not don't want to do it. Other people
will subsequently come to the fore and so actually I've
thought about it and I want to have to crack
at it. So it's a very democratic process, the open nominations.
People can throw their hat in the ring and then
there's a selection.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
How would you say she's done compared to so, Jim Andsden.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
I mean Jim. Jim's head with very very big shoes
to fill. But I think Megan's been an outspoken advocate
for Wigram. She's still going to be a member of
the Labour team for a little while yet, you know,
she's indicated that she'll do at least another term as
a list MP. You know, that's that's something that I
think is a reasonable thing for someone who's been around
a while to want to do. And you know, I
(04:41):
think she's done a really good job.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Was it her choice or do you have a word
to her?
Speaker 3 (04:47):
No, No, it was absolutely her choice. We had a
conversation about it after the election, as I did with
all of our MPs, and Megan indicated that she didn't
want to stick around probably for another six years, but
that she probably had another three in her after this.
And I've said fair enough, all right.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Later on this morning, you're going to be speaking to
the Big Infrastructure Zealand Building Nations Conference. What's your message
going to be?
Speaker 3 (05:11):
My message is going to be that by partisanship, you know,
we've heard the call for bipartisanship and that we committed
to doing that, but that's going to require a compromise
on both sides and at the moment, I think the
government are talking about the need for bipartisanship, but they're
not actually walking the talk. And so you know, I've
said pretty clearly we hear that we don't want to
see the stop start nature of all these big infrastructure
(05:33):
projects that we've seen over the last decade or so,
because it just flows everything down, makes everything more expensive
and the country doesn't move forward.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
What's the compromise you're expecting.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
Well, I mean, I think compromise means you don't say
this is what we're doing as a government, the opposition
should just support everything we're doing. That means you sit
around the table and you actually come up with some
agreed priorities together, and it means you won't get everything
that you want, but nor will the opposition either. There
will have to be compromised. But I think if we
did that, then we're not going to see the stop
start nature of infrastructure which has been really damaging to
(06:05):
the country.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Doesn't it saym that if we say you know, you're
one side and say Nationals the other side, you're both
saying the same, aren't you. We want to work together.
But as long as you do it to our tune.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Exactly, and I'm saying I'm willing to compromise on that.
I'm willing to accept that there are going to be
projects that they want to do that are the priority
for us. But that means that they have to accept
that there will be a few projects that we want
to see on the list which might not be a
priority for them.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
All right, I want to get your views on the
restructuring of the rural police in Canterbury. Just before ten
I spoke with Tony Hill, who's the district commander, and
he outlined a couple of things in their proposal, more
road policing and having rural liaison officers who will work
during daylight hours. Does that sound like a watered down
(06:51):
operation to you?
Speaker 3 (06:54):
Yeah. I am really worried that the police seem to
be retrenching from their presence in rural communities. I know
that those local community police in rural communities are often
right at the heart of those local communities, and you know,
I think that this is a watering down. Now the
Police Commissioner makes these decisions rather than the government, so
I fully acknowledge that. But the government, we're only too
(07:16):
happy to intervene to tell the Police Commissioner they needed
to put more cops on the beat in Central Auckland.
So I think it's probably time for Mark Mitchell too
once again walk the talk and say to the Police
commission that he wants rural communities to be better provisioned.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
Do you think it's disingenuous for the police to be
saying or we're we're not shutting down the colvid and
station for example, but it seems there aren't going to
be cops based there and there are going to be
these rural the aison officers treving there to do their
day's work.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Oh look, I've been through this in my own area,
you know, where they amalgamated the Lower Heart and the
Upper Up police forces and they said, oh, we're not
We're not taking anything away from Upper Hat. Now, if
a call out happens, most likely the police are dispatched
from Lower Heart if not from Wellington Central. And it
does mean that the police have a less of a
presence here and Upper Hut. And I think that rural
communities are now being sold the same story that we
(08:03):
can water this all down, it won't affect you like
your local policing. The reality is it will.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
We've had local Federated farmers and other people speaking out
about this and their meetings tonight. What's your message to
those people that are upset about this?
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Talk to Mark Mitchell. You know, he likes to claim
credit for more police on the beat and more frontline
policing and so on. He was happy to claim credit
for having more police walking up and down Queen Street.
So what put it to him? Why isn't he going
to do something for rural communities. He's been very happy
to intervene in police operational matters in the past where
it suits his political purpose. Rural communities are strongly supportive
(08:42):
of national and I think they're being betrayed if Mark
Mitchell won't do anything about the fact that their police
are being taken away.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
All right, Chris catch up in the fortnite That is
Opposition and labor leader Chriscepkins.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
For more from Caterbory Mornings with John McDonald. Listen live
to news Talks It'd be christ Church from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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