John MacDonald: $12 billion on defence? I'm good with that

It would be great if we didn’t have to spend $12 billion on our defence force. But we do, and I’m good with it.   

To be honest though, while we’d known the Government had some sort of plan to increase defence spending, I was still blown away a bit by the scale of it when the announcement came through.   

So, $12 billion over the next four years. There’ll be new helicopters, more missiles, autonomous vessels, the air force’s clapped-out 757s will be replaced. And that’s just the start, because it’s all part of a bigger 15-year plan to up the ante on the defence front.   

The Government says it will boost defence spending to more than 2% of GDP within the next eight years, which we haven’t seen since the early 1990s. Defence Minister Judith Collins says defence personnel are excited, because under-investment over the last 35 years has left the force gutted.  

Former NZ First defence minister Ron Mark is over the moon too. But he says the Government should sign contracts for the new gear ASAP, so any future government can't ditch the plans.  

But he says it's not just about missiles and helicopters, there's an issue with people power, as well. And recruiting the people needed to deliver the Government's 15-year plan will be a big challenge.  

Which Judith Collins acknowledges – you might have heard that the defence force has lowered some its academic requirements for people wanting to join the forces. Which I think makes sense. Judith Collins does too.   

And she says what we pay our defence personnel —as opposed to this $12 billion that’s going to be spent on kit— will be covered in the Budget next month.  

What this all brings us to is the question of what sort of operation you think our defence force should be.  

Should it use this new capability that it will have to focus on peacekeeping? Should there be more of a focus on surveillance? Or do you think we need a defence force that is capable of attacking?  

Professor Al Gillespie is an international law expert from Waikato University. He says this big investment in defence shows New Zealand has joined the arms race.  

He's saying today: "We've avoided doing it for quite some time but there's been a lot of pressure on us to increase the amount of money that we spend.”  

So the Government is responding to that pressure. And I think it’s great. Yes, the money could be spent on health and education, but our defence force is in such bad shape that the Government has no choice.  

And, in terms of what sort of capability I want our military to have, I think we need to cover all of the bases. We have to be equipped to keep the peace. Surveillance is another critical role. But if we think we can do either of those things without some sort firepower to back it up, then we’re dreaming.  

And the government knows that, which is why it wants our ships to be combat-capable. I’m not saying that I want our defence force going in all guns blazing, but it needs to be capable. Way more capable than it is now.   

Which is why I think this $12 billion —and everything else that comes on top of that— is going to be money well spent.  

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald
from newstalks'b.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
I reckon it would be great, it'd be brilliant if
we didn't have to spend twelve billion dollars on our
defense force. But we do have to, and I'm good
with it, to be honest with you. Thought, while we'd
known the government had some sort of plan to increased
defense spending, I was still blown away by the scale

(00:34):
of it all. When the announcement came through yesterday. Twelve
billion dollars over the next four years. There will be
new helicopters, more missiles, autonomous vessels. The clapped out seven
five to seven planes are going to be replaced, and
that's just a start, because it's all part of a
bigger fifteen year plan to up the ante on the

(00:55):
defense front. The investment will boost defense spending to more
than two percent of GDP within the next eight years,
which we haven't seen since the early nineteen ninety and
Defense Minister jud The Collins, she told Mike earlier, the
defense personnel are very excited by the news.

Speaker 3 (01:12):
Here's why they've.

Speaker 4 (01:13):
Had thirty five years except for that small period when
Ron Mark was the Minister and he actually got them
some really good kit, but they've had thirty five years
of being gutted.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
Frankly and former New Zealand First Defense Minister Ron Mark,
he's over the moon too.

Speaker 3 (01:29):
This will play well with our strategic partners globally. I
mean I'm thinking right now RC and FPDA in the
Indo Pacific, I'm thinking of security comfort. There will be
the South Pacific Kleens Minister. It will get five eyes
also and NATO can't forget NATO. But it's also going
to enhance the Prime Minister and the Minister Foreign Affairs

(01:53):
ability to secure our economic duty. You can't have prosperity
without security, and right now we're living in possibly the
most insecure times that we've seen since the system World War.

Speaker 2 (02:07):
He had a bit of advice for the government. I'm
saying that it should sign contracts for all this new
gear asap so that any future government can't ditch these plans.
But he says it's not just about missiles and helicopters either.
It says there's an issue with people power as well.

Speaker 3 (02:22):
The real crunch is going to become and what the
Prime Minister identified and then stand up after the after
Cabinet that you can't have platforms and capability if you
don't have confident, capable and experienced personnel as well, and
that's going to be the big challenge.

Speaker 2 (02:38):
And Judith Collins, she acknowledges that as well. You might
have heard that the Defense Forces lowered some of its
academic requirements for people wanting to join the forces, which
I think nothing could make sense, and Judith Collins does too.

Speaker 4 (02:50):
We need people who will turn up, who will take orders,
will clear enough to understand what things mean, but also
have an absolute passion willingness to learn and be part
of defense force. So where are not someone's brilliant That's
not necessarily the first port of court, although that is
also helpful.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
Singing from my song sheet in jureed of the Collins
says what we pay our defense personnel as opposed to
this twelve billion that's going to be spent on kitsch.
She says what we pay our soldiers in a sailors
and our pilots. That'll be covered in the budget next month.
So what this all brings us to is the question
of what sort of operation you think our Defense force

(03:31):
should be should it use this new capability that it'll
have to focus on peacekeeping. Should there be more of
a focus on surveillance or do you think we need
a defense force that is truly capable of attacking. Professor
Al Gillespie's an international law expert from Micato University. He
says it's clear to him this big investment shows that

(03:53):
New Zealand has joined the arms race. El Gillespie, he's
saying today, quote, We've avoided doing it for quite some time,
but there's been a lot of pressure on us to
increase the amount of money that we spend. So the
government's respond to that pressure, isn't it And I think
it's great, And yes the money could be spent on
health and education. That our defense force is in such

(04:14):
bad shape that the government, in my view, has no choice.
And in terms of what sort of capability I want
our military to have, well, I think we need to
cover all of the three bases I mentioned earlier. We
have to be equipped to keep the peace. Surveillance is
another critical role. But if we think we can do
either of those things without some sort of firepower to
back it up, then we're dreaming. And the government knows that,

(04:36):
which is why it wants, for example, our ships to
be combat capable. And I'm not saying here that I
want the force, our defense force going in all guns blazing,
but it needs to be capable, way more capable than
it is now. And I think there's twelve billion dollars
and everything else that comes on top of that, it's
going to be money well spent.

Speaker 1 (04:58):
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