John MacDonald: Abuse Inquiry - the direct and indirect victims

In some way, shape or form, every New Zealander is a victim of the horrific abuse laid bare in the inquiry report released yesterday.

First and foremost - absolutely first and foremost - it is the 200,000 people who were abused while in the care of the state and religious organisations that we are most mindful of. As we should be.

The Government appears to be, as well. The proof of that will emerge over the next few months as it works on a response to the 138 recommendations in the inquiry report.

As far as I’m concerned, there is one that should be prioritised immediately. Because, until this is done, a lot of the other strategies and plans and approaches recommended in the report will just be more paper, more talk, and our trust in the outfits who are supposed to be looking after the people who need it most will deteriorate further.

And that’s this recommendation that all staff and care workers are vetted, registered, and well-trained.

It’s astounding isn't it that this particular recommendation is even needed in 2024?

The Government’s first priority, though, seems to “re-dress”. Which is all about things like financial compensation and other forms of recognition for the direct victims of this abuse.

Even if you’re not one of them. Don’t think for a minute that this doesn’t involve you. Because you’re an indirect victim. I am too. Because, as I say, every New Zealander - in some way, shape or form - is a victim.

Whether it’s the families these kids went on to have or the people they had relationships with. The people who have faced the consequences of being brought up or living with someone broken by what they went through.

The people who have been the victims of crime carried out by the damaged people who finally found the belonging they were craving for in gangs.

The other victims I’m thinking of today, too, are the parents of these kids who were abused.

And if you’re thinking ‘oh none of them are me. I didn’t go through all that and no one in my family did either, so I’m not one of those victims he’s going on about.’ Well, think again.

Because we’re not just talking here about the abuse of 200,000 children and adults. Which is staggering enough, on its own.

We’re also talking about the huge abuse of trust we, as a society and a community, placed in these places that were supposed to protect and look after people.

And, particularly in the 1950s, 60s, 70s and 80s, our trust in these outfits was rock solid.

I know. Because I went to two Catholic schools in Dunedin where sexual abuse of kids was going on. These were schools run by the Christian Brothers. So it was Christian Brothers Junior School and St Paul’s High School that I went to. This was in the late 70s and 80s.

And since then, some of the people who taught me, have been exposed as sexual predators.

One of them I thought was the best teacher I’d ever had. He was an English teacher and he just brought the whole subject to life and probably had some influence over my decision to become a journalist when I left school. He was amazing.

What I didn’t know, at the time, though was, while "Mr Amazing" was opening my eyes and ears to words and language and stories - at the same time, he was also taking other kids to his place across the road at lunchtimes and abusing them.

As for another one, well, I remember there being talk about him being dodgy when I was there - this was at Christian Brothers Junior School - so kind-of around intermediate age. This guy was a Christian Brother and there was talk about him but in those days, when you were 11 or 12, it was all a bit of a giggle.

Terrible to think that now. And I’m appalled to think about the other kids at both of those schools who must have been living in absolute terror while the rest of us got on with playing four square and handball at lunchtime, and having a giggle about keeping

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald
from Newstalk ZB.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
You know, in some way, shape or form, every New Zealander,
every New Zealander, is a victim of the horrific abuse
laid bare in the Inquiry Report released yesterday. First and foremost,
and absolutely first and foremost, it is the two hundred

(00:33):
thousand people, two hundred thousand people who were abused while
in the care of the state and religious organizations that
we're most mindful of today, as we should be. The
government appears to be as well. The proof of that, though,
will emerge over the next few months as it works
on a response to the one hundred and thirty eight

(00:54):
recommendations in the Inquiry Report. As far as I'm concerned,
there is one that should be prioritized immediately, because until
this is done, a lot of the other strategies and
plans and approaches recommended in the report will just be
more paper, more talk, and our trust and the outfits

(01:17):
who are supposed to be looking after the people who
need it most will not be restored. And this is
the recommendation that all staff and care workers are vetted,
registered and well trained. I mean It's astounding, isn't it
that this particular recommendation is even needed in twenty twenty four.

(01:41):
But for me, that's it. If you don't prioritize that
nothing will change. As for the government, its first priority
seems to be redress, which is all about things like
financial compensation and other forms of recognition for the direct
victims of this abuse. No argument for me on that one.

(02:03):
But even if you're not one of those people, don't
think for a minute that this doesn't involve you because
you're an indirect victim. Everybody is. I am too, because,
as I said at the start, every New Zealander, in
some way, shape or form, is whether it's the families

(02:26):
that these kids, poor bloody kids, whether it's the families
that the families as kids went on to have, or
the people they had relationships with. The people who face
the consequences have been brought up or living with someone
broken by what they went through at the hands of

(02:48):
these predators, they're victims. The people have been impacted by
crime carried out by the damage to people who finally
found the belonging they were craving foreign gangs. They're victims.
Are the victims I'm thinking of today, you probably are
who are the parents of these kids that were abused?

(03:11):
And if you're listening to me and you're going through
all that list and neither thinking oh no, none of
them are me. I didn't go through all of that.
No one of my family did either, So no, no, no,
I'm not one of those victims he's going on about.
If you're thinking that, we'll think again, because we're not
just talking here about the abuse of two hundred children
and adults, which on its own is staggering enough. We're

(03:34):
also talking about the huge abuse of trust we as
a society and a community placed in these outfits and
these people who were supposed to protect and look after others,
and particularly in the fifties and the sixties and seventies
and the eighties, our trust. I'm talking about the society's

(03:55):
trust in these people and these outfits, these organizations. It
was rock solid. And I know that because I went
to two Catholic schools in Dunedin where sexual abuse of
kids was going on. These were schools run by the
Christian Brothers. So it was Christian Brothers Junior School and

(04:15):
Saint Paul's High School that I went to. This was
late seventies, early to early to mid eighties, and since
then some of the people who taught me have been
exposed as sexual predators. One of them, one of them,
I thought was the best teacher I'd ever had. He

(04:37):
was an English teacher, and he just brought the whole
subject to life. And he probably, I know, probably I reckon.
He definitely had some influence over my decision to become
a journalist. When I lived in this school, he was
amazing in the classroom. What I didn't know at the

(04:58):
time was that while mister Amazing was opening my eyes
and ears to words and language and stories, at the
same time, he was also taking other kids to his
place across the road at lunch times and abusing them.
As for another one, well, I remember there being talked
about him being dodgy. When I was there, he was

(05:19):
the principal. For goodness sake, this was a Christian Brothers
junior school, so kind of around intermediate age. This is
a school you went to from primary and I think
it was like you went there standing once the out
of two Form one, Form two. I think that was
how it worked, kind of around intermediate age. And this guy,

(05:39):
he was a Christian brother, and there was a bit
of talk about him in those days. But you know
when when you were eleven or twelve, in those times,
when you're a kid, it was all well, I remember
it being all a bit of a giggle. Terrible to
think now. I mean, I am appalled to think about

(06:01):
the other kids at both of those schools who must
have been living in absolute terror while the rest of
us just gone on with playing four square and handball
at lunch time and having a gig about keeping your
towel on and the changing rooms at the pool. And
this particular guy, he was moved overseas by the church
when he was caught out. It was after I'd left,

(06:24):
on the condition he had no contact with children. Man
alivee you go over there and just stay away from
the kids. And the reports I've seen say he went
to the Cook Islands and Africa eventually came back to
New Zealand. He's no longer a life. Other teachers at
these schools I went to have been named publicly over
the years too, and I can only imagine how difficult

(06:47):
it must have been for some of these kids. And
I'm not just talking here about and not just the
kids at the schools I went to anyone affected by this,
but I can just imagine how difficult it must have
been for them. And I'm not just talking about the
disgusting things that happened to them, how their lives were
ripped apart. I'm also talking about how much they must

(07:09):
have grappled with the fact that these so called religious
people were trusted. And I bet there were kids back
then going home telling their parents what was going on,
and their parents saying, oh, don't be so bloody rejected
to stop that disgusting talk right now. Stop it. I
bet you there were kids that went through that You

(07:32):
might be one of them. Because the trust in these creeps,
however misguided or however much it was abused, the trust
people and society had in them and their organizations was
rock solid. And they knew it, didn't they bloody animals.

(07:56):
Which is why I'm saying today that every one of us,
directly and indirectly, we've all been affected by this. Nothing
like the two hundred thousand finally are being recognized, Nothing
like that. I'm not saying that at all. But the
trust we as a society placed on these people and
their organizations was also abused, which makes us all victims

(08:23):
to varying degrees.

Speaker 1 (08:26):
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