John MacDonald: Do heavy court workloads justify crims getting off lightly?

Sir Ron Young, who used to be a high court judge and used to be chair of the Parole Board, thinks shorter sentences could take the strain off the justice system.  

He says shorter sentences make people less likely to re-offend because they don’t spend as much time with other offenders and that would mean less people going through the courts.

There are two ways we could respond to that. We could think about it with a long-term, logical view and let our head guide our thinking, or we could let our heart guide our response.

Sir Ron is saying this today after the release of Chief Justice Dame Helen Winkelmann’s annual report, which says the justice system is under considerable pressure because of under-funding, security issues, delays, and heavy workloads. 

Which probably won’t be much of a surprise to anyone who has had dealings with our courts.

But what do we do about it? Sir Ron thinks shorter sentences are the answer. He’s saying today that offenders who get shorter sentences and go through rehabilitation are less likely to join gangs and re-offend.

And, with longer sentences becoming more common, they’re making the crime problem worse because they mean people are more likely to continue committing crimes, and that’s putting more and more pressure on the justice system.

I can see both sides of the argument.

My head tells me that there is something in what Sir Ron is saying. But my heart tells me that it’s a terrible idea, because it doesn’t actually address the problem, which is a justice system pretty much on the edge.

A justice system struggling because, as our top judge says, it doesn’t have enough resources: there aren’t enough lawyers wanting to do legal aid work, there’s been an increase in the number of murder and manslaughter trials, and they’re all taking longer. 

But is dishing out lighter sentences to, apparently, reduce the pipeline of criminal offending, the answer? 

I say it isn’t. Because reducing sentences just to take the pressure off the justice system doesn’t help the victims of crime in the here and now. If there’s anything our struggling justice system doesn’t need, that’s a further erosion of public confidence. 

Which is what would happen if we saw criminals getting off lightly, just because we’re not prepared to resource the system in a way that delivers what the system is there to deliver: justice. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald
from newstalk z'b.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Oh Sir Ron Young, who used to be a High
Court judge, he used to be chair of the Parole Board.
He has some good ideas at times. As for the
one he's pushing today about giving up shorter criminal sentences
to take the pressure off the justice system, I think
he might be pushing it upheld to sell that one.

(00:35):
We'll find out, though, you never know. I think though
that there are two ways we could choose to respond
to what he's advocating for the first wave would be
to think think about it with a long term logical view,
which might make us more sympathetic to the idea. We
could let our head guide our thinking, because he's saying

(00:59):
saying today, he's saying that shorter sentences make people less
likely to re offend because they're exposed to other crim's
leg Yes, and so that would add up to meaning
less of a strain on the justice system, which is
what we're trying to fix. Heate, or we could shoot
it down and we could write it off. Is just
another example of how the Wokesters, bloody Wokesters are taken

(01:21):
over the place with their woke ideas, and you could say, well,
that'd be letting our heart decide how we feel. I'll
tell you in the second whether it's my head or
my heart or what it is that I'm listening to
this morning. But the reason Sir Ron is saying all
this today is the news that the justice system is
struggling to cope. It's a very clear message that's coming

(01:45):
through from Chief Justice Dame Helen Wing Kellman. It's in
an annual report which came out in the last twenty
four hours. She says the system is under considerable pressure
because of underfunding, because of security issues, because of delays,
because of heavy workloads. I mean that sounds like anywhere
these days. But I think that this assessment of the

(02:08):
justice system probably won't be much of a surprise to
anyone who's had dealings with it, particularly in recent times.
Thing is, though, what do we do about it? Well?
Former High Court judge and former Parole Board chair Sir
Ron Young reckons he's got the answer. Shorter prison sentences.

(02:29):
He's saying today that crims who get shorter sentences and
go through rehabilitation, they're less likely to join gangs and
they're less likely to reoffend. But with longest sentences becoming
more common, they're making the crime problem worse because they
mean people are more likely to continue committing crimes, and
that's putting what's that pudding, what's it doing. It's putting

(02:49):
more and more pressure on the justice system, which is
what we're trying to fix. So where I'm at with
this is that I can see both sides of the argument.
I can see the long term argument, that's if Sirhan
is correct and that shorter sentences order senenceors do actually
make people less likely to re offend. I can see that,

(03:11):
and I get that that's me thinking about it logically
with my head. But I mentioned the heart before too,
and my heart tells me that this is a terrible idea. Now,
I know I said before that Sir Ron could be
accused of going all woke on it, but I'm not
saying that when you're welcome to if you want to,
Philly Boots. The reason I think it's a terrible idea

(03:33):
is that it doesn't actually address the problem, which is
a justice system pretty much on the edge, a justice
system struggling because, as our top judge says in her report,
it doesn't have enough resources. There aren't enough lawyers wanting
to do legal aid work. There's been an increase in
the number of murder and manslaughter trials and they are
all taking longer. In fact, murder, manslaughter and attempted murder

(03:56):
trials now make up seventy six percent of all new
criminal trials on the High Court seventy six percent, and
they're taking way longer than they used to. But is
dishing out lighter sentences to apparently reduce the pipeline of
criminal offending? Is that the answer, you know, reduce the
customer base. My head tells me yes, because it might

(04:17):
have some long term benefits, But my heart tells me no.
And I'm going to listen to my heart on this one,
because reducing sentences just to take the pressure off the
justice system, because reduced sentences might lead to less crime,
that doesn't help the victims of crime in the here
and now. And if there's anything our struggling justice system

(04:38):
doesn't need is further erosion of public confidence. And that's
what would happen if we saw crims getting off lightly
just because just because we're not prepared to resource the system.
In a way that delivers what the system is there
to deliver.

Speaker 1 (04:55):
Justice for more from Canterbory Mornings with John McDonald. Listen
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