John MacDonald: Don't crow about giving women the vote and then do this

Next time I hear one of our government politicians banging on about New Zealand being the first country in the world to give women the vote, it will sound very hollow.  

Because while that might be something to crow about, what the Government’s doing in relation to equal pay for women, isn’t.   

You’ve got to, at the very least, give Brooke van Velden credit for taking one for the team yesterday and announcing that the Government is pulling the plug on any current pay equity claims and making it harder for any future claims to get through.   

And that’s exactly what it’s going to do. We know that because not only is the Workplace Relations Minister saying that the pay equity rules are “muddied and unclear”, the Prime Minister is also saying that these changes could save the Government “billions of dollars”. 

That’s because the majority of the women affected by this are government workers. But they won't be the only ones.  

There may be some people who like the sound of saving billions of dollars. Probably most of them blokes. But I’m picking the majority of people will find that kind of sales job appalling.  

I do.  

Especially when these changes aren’t going through the usual processes. There’s no select committee process. Within hours of Brooke van Velden making the announcement, it was all underway under urgency.  

And it’s going to mean that current pay equity claims in the system will be dropped and must be started again under the new rules, which are going to make the whole thing tougher and save us billions.  

The government’s reasoning —or the reasoning it’s talking about publicly, anyway— is that pay equity claims have been going through without what it describes as “strong evidence”.  

Apparently, after the announcement, ACT MPs were crowing that Brooke van Velden had single-handedly rescued this month’s budget with these changes.  

National MPs pushed-backed on that. With Finance Minister Nicola Willis fronting media —flanked by fellow female National MPs Judith Collins, Erica Stanford, Louise Upston and Nicola Grigg— denying that this is being done to balance the Government’s books.  

She said that the Government believes in the principle of pay equity when women can prove that they have been disadvantaged.  

She said: "What this is about is ensuring we are clear, transparent, and fair to ensure that where those claims are made they relate to gender-based discrimination and that other issues to do with pay and working conditions are raised during the normal employment relations process."  

Which is a fair and reasonable thing to say. But what isn’t fair and reasonable is the way the Government is going about this – leaving out the select committee process and rushing it through.  

Until the Government can convince me otherwise, I’m believing the ACT MPs who obviously think that this is all about saving money and nothing more. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald
from News Talk ZB.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
You know, next time I hear one of our government
politicians banging on about New Zealand being the first country
in the world to give women the vote, next time
I hear them banging all about that, it will sound
very hollow indeed, because while that may be something to
cry about, well it is something to cry about. It's
no doubt about that. What the government's doing in relation

(00:35):
to equal pay for women isn't it's nothing to cry about.
You've got to, at the very least, at the very least,
you've got to give Brook van Velden credit for taking
one for the team yesterday and being the one who
announced that the government is pulling the plug on any
current pay equity claims and making it harder for any

(01:00):
future claims to get through. And that's exactly what it's doing.
It's pulling the plug, making it harder. And we know
that because not only is the Workplace Relations Minister saying
that the pay equity rules are quote muddied and unclear,
suggesting that the government thinks it's a bit too easy.
Well no, it's not suggesting it's saying that the government

(01:22):
thinks it's all been a bit too easy. The other
reason we know that the government is going to make
it trickier for women wanting equal payers. At the Prime
Minister is already saying that these changes could save the
government quote billions of dollars. That's because the majority of
the women affected by this are government workers. But they
won't be the only ones. They won't be the only

(01:43):
ones affected, to trust me. And there may be some
people who, you know, like the sound of saving billions
of dollars, probably most of them, most of them blucks.
But I'm picking that the majority of people will find
that kind of sales job appalling. I do anyway, especially

(02:04):
especially when these changes aren't going through the usual processes.
There's no select committee process. Within hours of Brook van
Valden making the announcement, it all went into urgency. They
started last night, expected to sign it off by today.
And it's going to mean that current pay equity claims
in the system will be dropped just like that and

(02:26):
must be started again under the new rules, which are
going to make it tougher and save us billions. Apparently
the government's reasoning or the reasoning it's talking about publicly.
Put it that way, is that pay equity claims have
been going through without what it describes as strong evidence.
That's what brook van Walden is saying. Quote she says

(02:46):
claims have been able to progress without strong evidence of undervaluation,
and there have been very broad claims where it is
difficult to tell whether differences in pay are due to
sex based discrimination or other factors. End of quote. So
these are claims mainly in the public sector, and the
Prime Minister's right when he see a lot of money

(03:07):
is involved. The minister herself, she says, it costs a
crown about one point eight billion dollars a year to
effectively pay women the same as men. But you know
what I say to that? So what Apparently after the
announcement Act MP's were crowing saying that Brook van Waldn

(03:28):
had single handedly rescued this month's budget with these changes.
National MPs they were pretty quick to push back on
that one, with the Finance Minister Nicola Willis fronting media
I've seen this. She had fellow National MPs Judith Collins,
Erica Stamford, Louise Upston and Nicola greg with her and
she fronted media, and she denied what act was saying

(03:50):
that it's been done to balance the government's books. She
said the government believes in the principles of pay equity
when women can prove that they have been disadvantaged. So
Nicola willis, she says, quote, what this is about is
ensuring we are clear, transparent and fair to ensure that
where those claims are made they relate to gender based

(04:11):
discrimination and that other issues to do with pay and
working conditions are raised during the normal employment relations process.
Which it's a fair and reasonable thing to say. But
what isn't fair and reasonable is the way the government
is going about this. What I think it should be
doing if it thinks there are issues to be fixed,
is do what governments always do. Have a proper investigation,

(04:35):
find out if there is actually a problem other than
dollars and cents, and then if there is a problem,
come up with some ideas on how to fix it.
And don't cut corners either, you know, let us select
committee go through it, don't rush it through in the
dark of night, and certainly certainly don't tell women who

(04:59):
have already lodged claims that their claims are in the
bin and they're in the bin, come back and do
a better job proving to us that you deserve equal pay,
because until the government can prove otherwise, I'm going to
believe the Act Mpiece, who obviously think that this is

(05:20):
all about nothing more than saving money, all about rescuing
this month's budget. And because of my belief of the
Act Mpiece, I think what the government's doing is shameful.

Speaker 1 (05:35):
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