John MacDonald: I like the NCEA changes, but...

Yesterday, when the Government announced that it was getting rid of NCEA, my immediate reaction was that it was a mistake.  

That we would have been much better sticking with the system we’ve got and improving it.  

Twenty-four hours later, I still feel the same.   

There are some aspects of the changes that I think are brilliant. But the more I’ve found out about it, the more convinced I am that this could all be done without throwing the baby out with the bathwater.  

But here’s what I like.  

Quite rightly, people seem to be very excited that the Government wants more young people leaving school with a better understanding of reading, writing, and maths. And it’s not going to get any argument from me.  

Because I think we do need to up our game on that front. Which is why it’s going to have this assessment in Year 11 —which is the old 5th form— which will test students on their literacy and numeracy. That’s going to be called the Foundational Skills Award.  

The other week, I was at the supermarket and there was a young guy running the check-out. I wanted to split the bill and, without punching numbers into the till trying to work out what half of the overall amount was, he did the numbers in his head. Correctly, by the way.  

Which probably shows how low expectations have got when I’m impressed by a young guy at the checkout being able to divide something by two in his head.  

So that part of what the government wants to do gets a big tick from me. Because being able to read, write, and do maths are essential for life – whatever you might end up doing after you leave school.  

But that could all be done within the current system, we don’t need this major overhaul to achieve that.  

I’m also loving the fact that kids wanting to do trades will be able to leave school with a qualification that sets them up for it.  

I see one education expert is poo-pooing that, saying that it will create a two-tier system where some students will end up with a vocational qualification and others with an academic qualification.   

But so what? That’s not two-tier. That’s not one qualification for the bright kids and one qualification for the thickies. James McDowell from the Motor Trade Association thinks it’s brilliant too that school kids are going to be able to do more at school to ready themselves for taking on a trade.   

Other concerns coming through are that going back to the old-school system of more exams and pass or fail marks will mean more students finishing school without any qualifications.  

And I agree that that is a real concern, because the way NCEA is structured at the moment means that someone can get credits for things that aren’t all that academic but still mean they leave high school with something to show for their time there.  

And they don’t necessarily have to sit exams to get those credits.  

So here’s what I’d do. I would keep NCEA, but I would incorporate the brilliant bits of what the Government's wanting to do.  

I’d do the testing of reading, writing, and maths. And I would bring-in the trades training part of it too. And I would make sure there are more compulsory exams.  

Then, when the kids leave school, I would give them a transcript, like they do at universities. Which would, basically, be a piece of paper showing what subjects they took at high school, what exam marks they got, and what marks they got for other assignments.  

Overall, it would be a qualification. But then employers, for example, would be able to read it and see more detail of what a student actually did and actually achieved.  

I think that would be way better than throwing everything in the air and starting again. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Canterbury Morning's Podcast with John McDonald
from NEWSTALKSB.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
You know, yesterday when the government announced that it was
getting rid of nc EA, you might have heard this.
My immediate reaction was that it was a mistake, that
we would have been much better sticking with the system
we've got and improving it. And twenty four hours later,
how do I feel now? Still feel the same. There

(00:33):
are some aspects of the changes that I think are
absolutely brilliant. But the more I found out about it,
and the Education Minister has been all over the place
explaining the changes, the more I've heard, the more convinced
I am that this could all be done without throwing
the baby out with the bath water, as they say.

(00:54):
But let's start with what I like. Quite rightly, people
seem to be very excited that the government wants more
young people leaving the school with a better understanding of reading,
writing and maths. And the Government's not going to get
any argument from me either of the other people who
were applauding that, because I know we have to up
our game on that front, which is why it's going
to have this assessment in year eleven, which is the

(01:17):
Old Form five which will test students on their literacy
and numeracy, and that's going to be called the Foundational
Skills Award. That's what they're going to do in year
eleven Old Form five. You know, I might have mentioned
this that I didn't. I'm not sure I might have
mentioned it the other week that I was at the
supermarket and there was a young guy running the checkout

(01:42):
and I wanted to split the bill with the person
I was with, and you know, without punching numbers into
the till trying to work out what half of the
overall amount was, he did the numbers in his head
and they were correctly by the way, and I was

(02:03):
might be going far to say I was blown away,
but I was impressed, which probably shows how low expectations
have got when I'm impressed by a young guy at
the check out being able to divide something by two
in his head. So standards are obviously pretty low. So
that part of what the government wants to do gets

(02:23):
a big tick from me, because being able to read, write,
and do maths essential for life, whatever you might end
up doing after you leave school. But that could all
be done within the current NCEEA system. We don't need
this major overhaul to achieve that. I'm also loving the
fact that kids wanting to do trades will be able

(02:44):
to leave school with a qualification that sets them up
for it. I see this morning one education expert is
poop pooing that in the Ivory Tower, saying that all
that will do is create a two tier system where
some students will end up with a vocational qualification and
others with an academic qualification by US. So that's so,
what was the problem with that. That's not two tiers.

(03:07):
It's not one qualification for the bright kids and another
one for the thickies. And James James mcdell's some people
like James mcdell from the Motor Trade Association. He thinks
it's brilliant too that school kids are going to be
able to do more at school to ready themselves for
taking on a trade. And I agree. I mean, here's
here's a little bit of what he said to Mike earlier.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
A very welcome change. It was a pleasure to attend
the funeral yesterday of n CEA, and I very much
look forward to the future and particularly what we're going
to be doing with vocational pathways.

Speaker 2 (03:36):
The funeral at the NCAA and that was a nice
but which the vocational pathways but by the way, Education
Education Minister at Erica Stanford admits that is going to
be challenging.

Speaker 3 (03:45):
The challenge of courses that schools aren't always able to
have an automotive electrician or engineer in their school. We
have to partner with the polytechs and also the private
training organizations to make this work. And this is I'm
not going to pretend this is going to be an
easy piece of work. It's going to be tough, but
we're going to do it. I'm going to make sure
that no matter which school you're in, you have access
to these pathways and we will work with the industry

(04:07):
standards boards to make sure the standards are relevant.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
Other concerns coming through that going back to the old
school system of you know, more exams and pass or
fail marks. Because there are going to be A B, C,
D and E marks that students will get, there are
concerns that there will be more students finishing school without
any qualifications because I'll fight that's fail and I agree
that that's a real concern because the way that NCEA

(04:33):
is structured at the moment means that someone can get
credits for things that aren't all that academic, but which
still show that they have something to show for the
time at school when they leave, and they don't necessarily
have to sit exams to get those credits. So here's
here's what I would do in relation to that. I

(04:53):
would keep NCEEA, but I would incorporate the brilliant bits
of what the government's planning to do. I'd do the
testing of the reading, writing, and maths, because it's not
going to get any argument from me on that. And
I would bring in the trades training part of it
as well. And I would make sure that there are
more compulsory exams, so I'd go a bit hard ass

(05:15):
on it. Then when the kids leave school, this is
what I would do. I would give them to think
this through. I would give them a transcript what they
do at universities, which would basically be a piece of
paper showing exactly what subjects they took at high school,
what exam marks they got, whether it was an A
or an E, and what marks they got for other assignments,

(05:36):
and overall it would be a qualification. But then employers,
for example, would be able to pick it up and
read it and see more detail of what a student
actually did and what they actually achieved. And I think
that would be way better than throwing everything up in
the air and starting again.

Speaker 1 (05:56):
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