John MacDonald: We need to ditch this obsession with uni degrees

I didn’t go to university and there’s a bit of a dad joke that I trot out about that now and again. I say that I’m a student of life, in no rush to graduate.  

So maybe I’m coming at this with a biased view of the world, but I agree with this academic at the University of Canterbury who is saying today that universities have just become factories that pump out people with degrees. And he wants them to become elite institutions again.  

What’s more, he’s saying that because universities are so focused on getting people in the door and giving them a qualification, it’s meant that there are people at university who shouldn’t be.  

And how does he know that? Or why does he think that?  

It’s because of the number of students at university that, he says, are illiterate. In fact, he reckons it’s got so bad that it’s reached “a crisis level”.  

Mike Grimshaw is his name. He’s an Associate Professor of Sociology at Canterbury. And, as well as saying today that universities need to get all elite on it again, he’s also pointing the finger at the education system. Primary schools, in particular.  

Which he says are failing to create what he calls a reading and writing culture because they have become more interested in technology than education.  

This is how he’s describing it today. He’s saying that schools, and society in general, have “swallowed the technological Kool Aid without actually valuing education.”  

So that’s where his finger is pointing.  

He says many students "appear to be functionally illiterate - going on the incoherence of their written work. Compulsory writing or critical thinking courses do not seem to help as they can pass these and still regularly submit incoherent work.”   

So I get what he’s saying about the school system failing kids so that, by the time they reach university, their reading and writing isn’t what it should be.  

But I’m also going to point the finger at employers, because the fact that people have to have a university degree just to get a foot in the door at a lot of outfits is something I’ve been hot on for a long time. I think it’s crazy.  

And it’s not just because I didn’t go to university, it’s not just because I learned how to be a journalist on the job at a local newspaper.  

It’s because a university degree doesn’t make someone better suited for a job.  

If someone’s a real nosey type, who won’t take “no” for an answer and who isn’t scared to knock on someone’s door to see if they want to talk, but doesn't have piece of paper from a university, they will be a way better journalist than someone who went to university, got a degree but is too scared to talk to people.  

I’m sure you can think of jobs or professions where natural inclination or natural skill way outshines the benefit of a university degree. But, for some reason, a lot of employers these days don’t want to know you if you haven’t got a qualification.  

When it comes to university, my view is that there should only be two reasons for someone to go. The first is if you absolutely have to because of the career you want - so that’s things like law, engineering, medicine.  

The other reason is if you really want to. And that’s probably the key bit here, because, if you really want to go to university, chances are you’re not going to be illiterate.  

Universities these days are full of people who don’t really want to be at university but they think they have to if they want to get a job, and they’ll be the ones who Mike Grimshaw at UC is talking about today.   

And that’s why employers have to take some of the blame here. Employers who know full well that someone could do the job for them just as well —with or without a university degree— but, for some reason, they’re only interested in talking to the people with the degree and the framed photo on the wall.   

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald
from News Talk ZB.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Now, you may or may not know that I didn't
go to university, and there's a bit of a dad
joke that I trod out about that now and then
some people might say all the time, mate too often.
But anyway, I tell people that I'm a student of
life and I'm in no rush to graduate. It can

(00:36):
laugh you wanting. So maybe I'm coming at this with
a biased view of the world. But I'll tell you
what I agree with this academic at the University of
Canterbury who are saying today that universities have just become
factories that pump out people with degrees and he wants
them to become elite institutions. Again, what's more, back to

(00:58):
the old Ivory Tower. What's more, he's saying that because
the universities are so focused on getting people in the
door and giving them a call vocation, what that's meant
is that there are people at university who shouldn't be
And how does he know that or why does he
think that, you reckon? Well, it's because of the number
of students at university that he says are illiterate. In fact,

(01:22):
he reckons it's got so bad that it's reached and
or quotum so bad it has reached quote a crisis level.
Now Mike Grimshaw's his name, I know Mike or no
of them. He's an associate professor of sociology at Canterbury
and as well as saying today that universities need to
get all elite on it again, he's also pointing the

(01:45):
finger at the education system and primary schools in particular,
which he says are failing to create what he calls
a reading and writing culture because what's happened is the
become more interested in technology than education. And this is
how he's describing it today. He's saying that schools but
also in general have quote swallowed the technological call aid

(02:12):
without without actually valuing education end of quote. So that's
where his finger is pointing in terms of why there
are so many students at the university in this country
who and this is what Mike Grimshaw was saying, because
of the number of students at university who are illiterate
another quote, he says, many of them appear to be

(02:32):
functionally illiterate going on the incoherence of their written work.
Compulsory writing or critical thinking courses do not seem to help,
as they can pass these and still regularly submit incoherent work. So, yeah,
I get what he's saying about the school system failing
kids so that by the time they reach university they're

(02:53):
reading and writing just doesn't what it should be. But
tell you what, then, as far as I'm concerned, I'm
also going to point the finger and employers because the
fact that people have to have a university degree just
to get a foot in the door at a lot
of these outfits is just something I've been hot on
for it for a long time. I just think it's
absolutely crazy. And it's not just because I didn't go

(03:14):
to university, by the way, It's not just not just
because I learned how to be a journalist on the
job at a local newspaper. It's because a university degree
doesn't make someone better suited for a job. If someone's
a real, a real pokenosier, you know, a real nosy bugger.
If they're a real nosy bugger who won't take no

(03:36):
for an answer and who isn't scared to knock on
someone's door to see if they want to talk someone
like that who doesn't have a piece of paper from
a university. We'll tell you right now, that person would
be a way better journalist than someone who went to university,
got a degree but was too scared to talk to people.
They said, this is an area that I'm pretty familiar

(03:58):
with through my career. I'm sure you can think of
jobs and professions where natural inclination or natural skill way
outshines the best of any university degree. But for some reason,
a lot of employees these days, they don't want to
know you if you haven't got a qualification. Now, when
it comes to university, this is my view, I reckon

(04:21):
there should only be two reasons for someone to go.
The first is if you absolutely have to because of
the career you want to follow, so that things like law, engineering, medicine,
those sorts of things. The other reason is if you
really want to, and that's probably the key bit here,
because if you really want to go to university, chances
are you're not going to be a literatet A universities

(04:44):
these days, they are full of people who don't really
want to be at university, but they think they have
to if they want to get a job. This is
a stupid impression that employers create, and they will be
the people who Mike Grimshaw you see, they'll be the
people that he's talking about today. And that's why employers

(05:06):
have to take some of the blame here. Employers who
know think about it, who know full well that someone
could do the job for them just as well with
or without a university degree. But for some reason they're
only interested in talking to the people with the degree
and the framed photo on the wall. How do we
describe what waves just know? Other way it is nuts.

Speaker 1 (05:29):
For more from Category Mornings with John McDonald, listen live
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