John MacDonald: What does kicking out overstayers actually achieve?

What does kicking overstayers out of the country actually achieve?

With just under 21,000 overstayers in New Zealand, the Government is planning a crackdown. But the Green Party wants an amnesty. Reason being that most people living here without visas are what the Greens describe as being “active in their communities”. Plus, they’ve got families here.

Or, to put it another way, if someone overstays their welcome, they’re committing what people sometimes refer to as a “victimless crime”. And I think we need to ask ourselves what kicking overstayers out of the country actually achieves.

If all it does is give us an excuse to bang our chest and say to the world “don’t mess with us”, then is it really worth it? I’m starting to think that it isn’t and maybe this amnesty idea isn’t so bad after all.

It’s not new and it’s not just the Greens that have been pushing it. Just before the last election, Labour leader Chris Hipkins talked about bringing-in an amnesty for overstayers who had been living in New Zealand for more than 10 years.

But not everyone in Labour was keen on that. Andrew Little was Immigration Minister at the time, and he said: “We have to think about the signal that we’re giving to people if they think ‘oh gee, this is a government that just routinely gives amnesties. If we stick around long enough, we’ll be ok’.”

At the time I said that if we went ahead with this amnesty, we’d be telling the world that we are the people’s republic of pushovers.

I said that, nowhere else in the world would you find a country willing to turn such a blind eye to illegal immigrants.

But that was then and, two years on, my thinking is changing. 

Because I think it’s very easy to be all anti-overstayer and anti-amnesty without asking the question: what’s in it for me if an overstayer is kicked out of the country? 

When you think about it, the answer to that is “absolutely nothing”. 

We might feel good because we’re putting these illegal aliens in their place. In their place and out of our place. But how does it make New Zealand a better country? Answer: it doesn’t. 

As the Greens’ immigration spokesperson Ricardo Menendez March is saying today: "People without a visa need support. Most are active participants in our communities, have family here, and are also more vulnerable to exploitation."  

He says overstayers should be treated with dignity and respect and be allowed to become residents instead of being put on the next plane out of here.  

Different story, of course, if someone is here without a visa and commits a serious crime. 

As for every other overstayer, why wouldn’t we let them live here legitimately?  Because what’s in it for us if we kick them out?

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald
from News Talks.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
Be consider this. I want you to consider this. What
does kicking overstayers out of the country actually achieve? Just
think about that. What does it achieve? Figures released yesterday
show that they were just under twenty one thousand overstays
in New Zealand right now. Not surprisingly, the government is

(00:35):
talking about a crackdown. The Green Party wants an amnesty,
reason being that most people living here without visas are
what the Greens describe as being quote active in their
communities and plus they've got families here. Or I suppose
you could put it another way. If someone overstays, they're

(00:56):
welcome beyond their visa limitations. They're committing what people sometimes
refer to as a victimless crime. And that's why I
think we need to ask ourselves what kicking overstays out
of the country actually achieves. If all it does, if

(01:17):
all it does is give us an excuse to, you know,
bang the chest and say to the world, don't mess
with us, buddy, then is it really worth it? And
I'm starting to think that it isn't. And I'm starting
to think that maybe this amnesty idea isn't so bad.
It's not a new idea and it's not just the

(01:39):
Greens that have been pushing it. Just before the last election,
you might remember this. Just before the last election, Labour
leader Chris Hipkins talked about bringing in an amnesty for
overstayers who had been in New Zealand for more than
ten years. Not everyone in Labor was keen on that,
though Andrew Little, he was the Immigration Minister at the time,
he wasn't keen. He said, quote, we have to think

(02:01):
about the signal that we're giving to people if they think, oh, gee,
this is a government that just routinely gives amnesties and
if we stick around long enough, we'll be okay. End
of quote. That's what Labor is. Andrew Little said. And
at the time at the time, I was with him
at the time, I said that if we went ahead

(02:22):
with this amnesty, we'd be telling the world that we
are the people's Republic of pushovers. I said two years ago,
nowhere else in the world would you find a country
willing to turn such a blind eye to illegal immigrants.
And I recalled that when I went to live overseas
for a couple of years. Never entered my mind to

(02:43):
go somewhere and to stick around until the authorities caught
up with me, because I knew at the time that
pretty much every country in the world didn't tolerate that
sort of thing. But that was then, and two years
on my thinking is changing because I think it's very
easy to be all anti overstayer and anti amnesty without

(03:03):
asking the question, what's in it for me if an
overstayer is kicked out of the country, or what's in
it for you? What's in it for you if an
overstayer is kicked out of the country, And when you
think about it logically, the answer to that is absolutely nothing.

(03:24):
You know, again, we can thump our chests and feel
good because we're put the putting these illegal aliens in
their place, in their place, out of our place, But
how does it improve our lives or how does it
make New Zealand a better country? Well, the answer is
it doesn't. As the Greens immigration spokesperson Ricardo and Inndez

(03:48):
Marsh is saying today, quote, people without a visa needs support.
Most are active participants in our communities, have family here,
and are also more vulnerable to exploitation and He's saying
overstays should be treated with dignity and respect. They should
be allowed to become residents instead of being put on
the next plane out of here. Different story, of course,

(04:09):
if someone is here without a visa and commits a
serious crime, but every other overstayer, why wouldn't we let
them live here legitimately? Because what's in it for us
if we kick them out? What does kicking overstayers out
of the country actually achieve?

Speaker 1 (04:29):
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