Matt Doocey and Duncan Webb joined John MacDonald to give their thoughts on the biggest political stories of the week.
Changes are likely coming to NCEA – are they needed? And should trades be given more support in schools?
A lawyer is calling for the Government to step in and shut down Gloriavale, but should this be their responsibility?
Doocey has launched a petition against a T2 lane – is this an easy hit for votes? And what is the FBI doing in Wellington?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Canterbury Morning's podcast with John McDonald
from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
B and one of the best things about today not
just being Friday, but it's also the return of politics
Friday after the absence of a couple of weeks. Dunk
and we're from Labor Morning. It's really good to be here, mate,
Douci Morning John.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
I'm a bit disappointed. One of the best things today.
Surely it is the best thing today on the John
McDonald show.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
I've noticed you haven't said what did you say? Good
to be here? Yeah, you haven't seen anything like that. Matt.
I'm assuming it's good to be here.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Oh look they always say, Matt, can you pop along
and talk to John? So I follow my instruction.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
So the answer is no, he's abating. He's abating the
first question.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
He's only here because the boss told him brilliance. Thanks
a lot. That is fantastic.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Mum said, pays to be honest.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Did your mum talk to you when you're at school
about doing a trade Because we've been discussing this this
morning with doctor Michael Johnson from the New Zealand Initiative.
In parallel with the New Zealand Qualifications Authority saying not
enough has done to stair kids towards trades. What's your
response or position on that map.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
You're fair to say I'm not in the weeds of
NCAA as I'm pretty much a school sert and UI boy,
because of course they were the qualifications during my time.
But look, when you read some of the reports, there
is some concern around the levels of some of the
credits and ultimately what is really the credibility and the
(01:33):
pathway that gives a young person. And quite rightly, some
of the trades are saying probably we could do a
bit better getting the right credits in place and creating
that vocational pathways. So Erica Stanford, the Minister of Education,
has foreshadowed an announcement around nc EA.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
How big en up people? Is that going to be?
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Well, well, I think we'll have to wait for that. Yeah,
But ultimately I think we've got parents out there today
with young people who are studying n c A and
we think it is a credible qualification in some areas
like vocational pathways, we think at times there's probably too
much internal assessment, not enough external rigor, and better credits
(02:18):
that actually give you the skills to go on and
take up a trades pathway.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Okay, stunk and Web, how much can labor carry the
can here? Because Helen Clark is credited with this whole
idea of let's get as many people as we can
to university because the university is the be all and
end all.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
Oh look, I think I don't know if she actually
said that, but I think trades training is a great thing,
and then certainly in the last government we pushed it.
I was down at ARDA at their Building and Trade
section the other day talking to them about some programs
they've got where they have kids who aren't fitting in
well in school and they come into a day or
two at the tech transition in there. It's a really
(02:52):
good program. The tech they're going.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
To close, aren't you there just perpetuating that myth that
it's the thickies and the tribes.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
And I certainly didn't mean to, But what I did
want to point out was that there's really good ways
to do it, which are part at high school, part
at tech. They actually do high school and university as well,
and those kinds of blended courses are really good. But
you're absolutely right, trades are for everyone, And there are
a whole lot of really good businesses and occupations in
(03:24):
the trades and we should be supporting them.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
All right, let's talk about the FBI, because I'm curious
about this. I want to get your reaction first done.
Since you're in the opposition, how does the opposition feel
about the FBI?
Speaker 4 (03:35):
Sand We certainly want to know more, And I've had
some emails already today saying, you know, what the hell's
going on here? Is there a foreign law enforcement body,
you know, which is actually a domestic body. It's not
the CIA, which is a transnational body. It's a domestic
American law enforcement what's it doing in New Zealand? So look,
we don't want to immediately trash it, because there might
(03:59):
be a good reason and there might be the right constraints,
but we certainly want to know more. And on these
kind of security issues, there's generally an approach where the
government and the opposition sit down and talk about it,
and I think, you know, we need to do that.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Did Labor know that the FBI boss was coming?
Speaker 4 (04:14):
Not to my knowledge. I mean, I can't speak for
Chris Hipkins and whether he got the heads up, but
I haven't heard that today.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Were you surprised then that the guy was here and
b it was he was here to set up an office.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
Personally, I was, I was surprised. In your labor colleagues,
I don't think we had a hits up. Yeah, so
we Yeah, there is a degree of this is unusual.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
So it would seem that you might have been blindsided.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
Well, you could put the word blindsided into my mouth,
but I'll repeating it. But it would have been I
think it would have been nice to know and advance
what's going on. And we do need to know more,
and we don't know enough yet.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
What don't you know, Well, we don't know, for.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
Example, whether they're going to have any kind of investigative
powers above and beyond that of an ordinary citizen.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Matt, can you answer the question?
Speaker 3 (04:59):
Yeah, I think just following on from Duncan and asking
the question, let started look, when we think of national security.
Duncan's quite right. It is done across the political divide
at a leadership level, so we would expect not to
(05:21):
know at our level. It is held quite rightly. Through
the sensitivity and confidentiality that it is held at a
leadership level, it does show the importance of a bilateral
relationship between America and New Zealand. And if you're looking
at pragmatically what we are trying to do, I just
point out, look at what happened last year with the
(05:44):
myth in the wastewater testing, all right, hugely driven by
transnational crime syndicate, and this is what.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
That is about that Did you know about it before
it was announced? Well, I'm not going into what did
you know the FBI boss was coming. I'm not going
into what I knew or I did didn't? Did you
know that?
Speaker 3 (06:08):
But John, I've just said to you, I'm not going
into what I.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
You hold a cabinet portfolio.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
And also, as Duncan alluded to, it is held within
the leadership, right, and I'm going to leave it at that.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
So you didn't know.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
It's not for me to disclose that information.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Right, So don't to discuss that did America request or
did the FBI request to set up office in Wellington?
Or did it tell you it was setting up an
office in Wellington?
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Well that is the information that is held within the
GCSB committee, which is attended by party leaders and that's
what all I'd say about that.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Or do you know about that Duncan. I don't know
anything about it, so you didn't know about it. You
don't know, you're not prepared to say whether you did
know about it, and you neither of you know whether
it was forced on New Zealand, whether it was agreed
with New Zealand or requested by New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Well, I think you can take quite a conspiratorial approach.
I think it actually all it does is acknowledge the
importance of our bilateral relationship. We're part of Five Eyes.
This country, like many Western countries, faces some very serious
international criminal activity. Meth been one the Pacific in New
(07:23):
Zealand snificant.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
What about China? What's concerned with China? Do you share
the FBI's concerns about China and the Pacific, because they've
made it very clear that the top issue for them
is geopolitical and what China is up to.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Well, New Zealand has independent foreign policy. The FBI can
express their view. We are part of Five Eyes. We
have a long standing relationship with America, but equally, we
are fortunate to live in a part of the world
where we have China as a trading nation and a
neighbor that supports our economy as well, and I think
(08:01):
New Zealand has ably stepped through a relationship with both
of those countries.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
But you talk about independent foreign policy, Duncan Web. Does
the FBI being in town does that chip away at
our independence in terms of foreign affairs?
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Well?
Speaker 4 (08:15):
I don't think it does, but I do think we
need to point out that we've got a long history
of transnational cooperation. There's Interpol, there's a Mutual Assistance in
Criminal Matters Act, and the FBI being essentially on the
ground with an office is stepping beyond that.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
So lawyer Brian Henry, who's been representing ex members of
the Glory of Vale community, says the time has come,
with the leader now convicted sex offender, for the government
to intervene and take over the running of the place.
Duncan were, what's your view on that?
Speaker 4 (08:46):
Look, I think there's an argument for it. Right, when organizations,
big organizations fail, the government does get power to appoint
a statutory manager. Did it with South Canterbury Finance. It's
done it before. And this is ess actially an organization
with a whole lot of vulnerable people, a whole lot
of children, and it's not good. There's a lot of
(09:10):
harm that occurs there. The EERO has seen time and
again that the school that's on site there is not
delivering good educational outcomes for kids. I don't think it
ever will or ever can. So I'm actually leaning towards
Brian Henry's view here.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Right, So it's around it way of saying, yes, the
government should take over.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
We'll certainly should do more, and this government has stepped back.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Hold on them, LORDI hold on them.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
No.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
We had what did you guys do well?
Speaker 4 (09:37):
Two things or more than many, more than two things.
We put together a cross ministerial group to actually push
things like the education, the social services, the health services
going into Glory Vale, and to do more. The euro
report that's coming out is because we push for it
and it's been oncoming through.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
That's all very well, and I'm sure we've come up
with other examples, but none of them have done anything
to deal with the fact that there are kids living
there being abused by some pedophiles.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
Yeah, and the police, the police actually had a task
force which was constantly going in and also not just
going in kind of in a police way of building
relationships because one of the problems and I went to
the de Cult conference here and heard about it from
one of the one of the victims. One of the
problems is that the victims don't feel ready to speak
out because of the huge power and balance that goes
(10:28):
on in that place. So the police were working hard.
There was disestablished under this government.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Right, Matt, do you see what's the government? What is
the government going to do?
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Well? I think it's first to point out that Brian
Henry hasn't called for Gloria Vale to close the government.
I think his words were there was a group of
law abiding citizens living there. I am not of the
same view as Duncan that the government should intervene in
(10:58):
the sense of whether it's taking it over or maybe
establishing a commissioner. But clearly, if this concerns around young people,
that should be reported to police.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
No, no, well don't come to us. Could ring the
police act?
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Yes, I disagree that that That is the society we
live in. People have free choice to live in.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
What about the kids? The kids don't have free choice.
But it wasn't expected such a lame response.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Respect that that. Well, that's your definition, it's not mine.
That is why we have the safeguarding of a Tamadiki.
We have police if people report criminal activity. We, as
Duncan alluded to, there's multiple government agencies that intervene within
(11:56):
their powers and that's what we would expect. But if
you are saying that, well, that's for your view, John,
But if you're really saying that, the answer is for
the government to take an independent organization, charity or entity over,
I disagree for the people against and charity.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
It's it's a coercive cult that causes harm a whole
lot of people. And there are there are innocent people there.
I get it, and there are people that just want
their life. But at its heart, it is rotten.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
That you're allowed your view, Dunk, and I expect that.
But I'll come back to my original point. Brian Henry,
who's the lawyer prosecuting this, actually said he didn't agree
with it being disbanded. There was enough Laura biding citizens
no wanting to live within that and that's the lord.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
Even Trust doesn't say it should be disbanded, but they
do say that people should, that it should be managed,
and people should be freer to leave and free of
the coercion and control that currently exists.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
But I know ring the police talk to someone who's interested.
The other night, Shane Jones had dinner, had maybe one
or three red wines, turned his phone off and missed
the tsunami text alert. Don't can we risk of becoming
a bit complacent with all of these alerts.
Speaker 4 (13:17):
They are actually pretty important. You know, I did see
Mark Mitchell yesterday. It was and I see done. You
know you wake me up early. A bit of a laugh.
But actually, you know, if people are walking their dogs
on the beach and they get some title surge, you know,
could it could turn nasty. So we do have to
take notice of them. It's for Shane Jones or he's
a grown up. You know, he can look after himself.
I'm not gonna I'm not gonna tell him what to do.
(13:38):
You'd be a brave man if you did.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
He's done. He's done worse than turn his phone off. Mate,
dooci well?
Speaker 3 (13:43):
I presume if you turn your phone off, when you
turn it back on, the alert would pop up.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Apparently that happened with people on a flight to christ
Church the other afternoon. Someone someone told us, yeah, they
got off the phone.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
I just think it's one of those things. You're damned
if you do and you're damned if you don't write
and look that it was. It was pretty loud. I
was up in Wellington sixth th eighty am. It went
on any kind of think really, but it's.
Speaker 4 (14:09):
Really disturbing when you're at the gym at that time
of the morning, isn't it, Matt Well.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
That's where it was. Actually go to the gym at
six am every morning in Parliament. How many others there,
I'd say on average is about four maybe five. Funny enough,
I've never seen Duncan in there at that.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
I thought you can say he was in shamee there.
He's more a late night chim going.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
No, I'm in there at six am every morning, diligently
walking on the treadmill with my coffee.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
More a cardio guy.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
I wouldn't have guessed that we look it that your
back surprised.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
That's clearly not delivering outcomes from my activity.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
That's why he was so interested in the protein bar.
Have gotten on the table here. Okay, are you're a
protein powder guy or you're just a cardio No.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
I'm starting into that creating power. Yeah, apparently for older
people at help, so I'm trying it.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Brilliant it's all good, but you're also putting your energy
into trying to get rid of the tea too lane.
On what the hell is this all about?
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Lock of people go to ww dot MATDC dot co
dot Nz. They'll see the petition on the main page.
They can click out that. They can fill out the
petition and lot lets unlock the potential the wymuck at
edit Bridge.
Speaker 4 (15:22):
That's because you've got a ticket for being in the
T two lane and you're doing all this just to
get off your ticket.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
No, that is incorrect. And lot people come to me
and they say it's about time we turfed Labour's T
two lane. All right, hold two turn off.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
I'm a treat to know why someone who is actually
holds a cabinet portfolio needs a petition to get a
message through to your government. What are you doing? You're
just trying to gather people's email addresses for the election campaign.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
No, if you jump on ww dot MATDC dot co
dot nz and fill out the petition, you'll see I'm
petitioning n z t A. They are the one responsible
for this. They're currently undertaking a review of the T
two lane. So what I've agreed with my constituents, as
the MP for Ymuck and Eddie is with their petition,
we're garnering the support and we will presenting that as
(16:12):
part of the review because in all seriousness, if you're
trying to get on the motorway at the tram Road
on ramp and you've got multiple lanes cramming into a
singular lane, you've got one that's just sitting there vacant,
it causes congestion, actually causes safety concerns like what well,
like I say, when you've got multiple people turning into
(16:32):
one lane, you've got the right hand turn from people
coming from Oxford cussed Hoker, You've got people turning left
coming from Kyro.
Speaker 4 (16:42):
You've got you've got a cabinet minister, you've got a
Minister of the South Island who's the Associate Minister of Transport. Yes,
they can walk down the hall and say, hey, look,
I know you've changed the speed limit at you know
what end? Would your mind also changing the T two lane.
This whole idea, We do know it's all about getting
emails signatures. I've had a lot put your emails.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
You know.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
About team the view of my we do need.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
They merge into one lane.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
He's had a really good crackit.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
Just go out to your listeners. John, Here you have
a Member of Parliament for christ Church trying to dictate
to people coming down the Northern Corridor from ymuked Eddy
around real issues they have about reliable travel times, and
quite rightly, it's a persistent issue and as a local MP,
(17:37):
I've responded to that. Right, that's what I do with
my job.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
How much time? How much time would you save people
if you got rid of the T two.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Well it's not necessarily about time, it's also safety. So
people are saying it's quite a safety concern.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Well, they just need to pull their heads in and
just cooperate, don't they.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Well, John, my role is to represent people and that's
what they've come to me for to represent. So I
take my job seriously.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
So so how's it increasing the speed limits consistent with
your safety argument?
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Well, what we want to do is give people reliable
travel times into the city and what we've got is
Labour's T two lane. That was a turn off. That's
stopping people utilizing the full capacity of the white So.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
We have this this is this is on way. You're laughing.
You don't even believe it yourself.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
So people know I'm as strong advocate. I was successful
in petitioning my own government and three laning the wy
Marke at Edy Bridge. That wasn't going to happen.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
So I said that did use a petition or need
a petition?
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Petition? Simon bridge is a transfer?
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Did you get use a petition with people signing up
to it?
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Yes, for the three laning of the bridge?
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Okay. And and just on record, you can guarantee that
if someone goes in there and puts the email address
for your petition, they will not start getting emails from
you during the election campaign next year. No, No, it's
a guarantee. Yeah, that's fine, that's not database.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
No, look, I don't I'm noted in that. I'm interested
in getting as many signatures as possible and taking them
to n ZTA and say these are people's views.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
Well, I think actually, I don't want to touch on
the real issue, which is how we move people faster,
and it's not by one car at a time with
one person in it. The T two lane for buses
and multiple people is actually a really good thing. We
need to encourage people to use the bus, you know,
the buses and fill up cars and you sure you
can talk to your constituency about this, but at the
(19:28):
end of the day, we've got a large project which
is to move people from one place to another as
effectively as possible and as low carbon as possible.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Which giving up, you're giving up.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
I'm not talking about the T two lane down the
Northern Corridor. There's a specific strip only over the breeze,
and I'm talking about that on the partition.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
I've got a question, got a question of it. This
is w of a manager. Actually, don't get now the
opportunities to come up. You're being on there about carbon
and getting people sharing transport and all that. I'm just
curious to know why the Risch at Central MP it's
a massive, big, full Labor branded four wheel drive vehicle.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
Yeah, okay, yeah, and I use that sometimes when I
need to and sometimes I'm on my bike, but I
absolutely as you well know.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
So you needed that to drive to the labor meeting
opposite the old Court building. You needed a full wheel
drive vehicle to get you aroundtown, and.
Speaker 4 (20:28):
That sometimes I do sometimes I don't.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
All right, Thank you both, Matt Ducy, thank you, Thanks John.
You've gone for requitement.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
No, I just think it's brilliant that we've got a
world where people have choice options and government stays out
of their way and Duncan can drive the biquet once brilliant.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
I'm just gonna walk back to my office.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Thank you, Duncan. Nice to see you both. Have we
good week.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
For more from Category Mornings with John McDonald, listen live
to news Talks It'd be christ Church from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Canterbury Morning's podcast with John McDonald
from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
B and one of the best things about today not
just being Friday, but it's also the return of politics
Friday after the absence of a couple of weeks. Dunk
and we're from Labor Morning. It's really good to be here, mate,
Douci Morning John.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
I'm a bit disappointed. One of the best things today.
Surely it is the best thing today on the John
McDonald show.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
I've noticed you haven't said what did you say? Good
to be here? Yeah, you haven't seen anything like that. Matt.
I'm assuming it's good to be here.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Oh look they always say, Matt, can you pop along
and talk to John? So I follow my instruction.
Speaker 4 (00:44):
So the answer is no, he's abating. He's abating the
first question.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
He's only here because the boss told him brilliance. Thanks
a lot. That is fantastic.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Mum said, pays to be honest.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Did your mum talk to you when you're at school
about doing a trade Because we've been discussing this this
morning with doctor Michael Johnson from the New Zealand Initiative.
In parallel with the New Zealand Qualifications Authority saying not
enough has done to stair kids towards trades. What's your
response or position on that map.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
You're fair to say I'm not in the weeds of
NCAA as I'm pretty much a school sert and UI boy,
because of course they were the qualifications during my time.
But look, when you read some of the reports, there
is some concern around the levels of some of the
credits and ultimately what is really the credibility and the
(01:33):
pathway that gives a young person. And quite rightly, some
of the trades are saying probably we could do a
bit better getting the right credits in place and creating
that vocational pathways. So Erica Stanford, the Minister of Education,
has foreshadowed an announcement around nc EA.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
How big en up people? Is that going to be?
Speaker 3 (01:54):
Well, well, I think we'll have to wait for that. Yeah,
But ultimately I think we've got parents out there today
with young people who are studying n c A and
we think it is a credible qualification in some areas
like vocational pathways, we think at times there's probably too
much internal assessment, not enough external rigor, and better credits
(02:18):
that actually give you the skills to go on and
take up a trades pathway.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Okay, stunk and Web, how much can labor carry the
can here? Because Helen Clark is credited with this whole
idea of let's get as many people as we can
to university because the university is the be all and
end all.
Speaker 4 (02:31):
Oh look, I think I don't know if she actually
said that, but I think trades training is a great thing,
and then certainly in the last government we pushed it.
I was down at ARDA at their Building and Trade
section the other day talking to them about some programs
they've got where they have kids who aren't fitting in
well in school and they come into a day or
two at the tech transition in there. It's a really
(02:52):
good program. The tech they're going.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
To close, aren't you there just perpetuating that myth that
it's the thickies and the tribes.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
And I certainly didn't mean to, But what I did
want to point out was that there's really good ways
to do it, which are part at high school, part
at tech. They actually do high school and university as well,
and those kinds of blended courses are really good. But
you're absolutely right, trades are for everyone, And there are
a whole lot of really good businesses and occupations in
(03:24):
the trades and we should be supporting them.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
All right, let's talk about the FBI, because I'm curious
about this. I want to get your reaction first done.
Since you're in the opposition, how does the opposition feel
about the FBI?
Speaker 4 (03:35):
Sand We certainly want to know more, And I've had
some emails already today saying, you know, what the hell's
going on here? Is there a foreign law enforcement body,
you know, which is actually a domestic body. It's not
the CIA, which is a transnational body. It's a domestic
American law enforcement what's it doing in New Zealand? So look,
we don't want to immediately trash it, because there might
(03:59):
be a good reason and there might be the right constraints,
but we certainly want to know more. And on these
kind of security issues, there's generally an approach where the
government and the opposition sit down and talk about it,
and I think, you know, we need to do that.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Did Labor know that the FBI boss was coming?
Speaker 4 (04:14):
Not to my knowledge. I mean, I can't speak for
Chris Hipkins and whether he got the heads up, but
I haven't heard that today.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
Were you surprised then that the guy was here and
b it was he was here to set up an office.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
Personally, I was, I was surprised. In your labor colleagues,
I don't think we had a hits up. Yeah, so
we Yeah, there is a degree of this is unusual.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
So it would seem that you might have been blindsided.
Speaker 4 (04:39):
Well, you could put the word blindsided into my mouth,
but I'll repeating it. But it would have been I
think it would have been nice to know and advance
what's going on. And we do need to know more,
and we don't know enough yet.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
What don't you know, Well, we don't know, for.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
Example, whether they're going to have any kind of investigative
powers above and beyond that of an ordinary citizen.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
Matt, can you answer the question?
Speaker 3 (04:59):
Yeah, I think just following on from Duncan and asking
the question, let started look, when we think of national security.
Duncan's quite right. It is done across the political divide
at a leadership level, so we would expect not to
(05:21):
know at our level. It is held quite rightly. Through
the sensitivity and confidentiality that it is held at a
leadership level, it does show the importance of a bilateral
relationship between America and New Zealand. And if you're looking
at pragmatically what we are trying to do, I just
point out, look at what happened last year with the
(05:44):
myth in the wastewater testing, all right, hugely driven by
transnational crime syndicate, and this is what.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
That is about that Did you know about it before
it was announced? Well, I'm not going into what did
you know the FBI boss was coming. I'm not going
into what I knew or I did didn't? Did you
know that?
Speaker 3 (06:08):
But John, I've just said to you, I'm not going
into what I.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
You hold a cabinet portfolio.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
And also, as Duncan alluded to, it is held within
the leadership, right, and I'm going to leave it at that.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
So you didn't know.
Speaker 3 (06:21):
It's not for me to disclose that information.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Right, So don't to discuss that did America request or
did the FBI request to set up office in Wellington?
Or did it tell you it was setting up an
office in Wellington?
Speaker 3 (06:36):
Well that is the information that is held within the
GCSB committee, which is attended by party leaders and that's
what all I'd say about that.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
Or do you know about that Duncan. I don't know
anything about it, so you didn't know about it. You
don't know, you're not prepared to say whether you did
know about it, and you neither of you know whether
it was forced on New Zealand, whether it was agreed
with New Zealand or requested by New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Well, I think you can take quite a conspiratorial approach.
I think it actually all it does is acknowledge the
importance of our bilateral relationship. We're part of Five Eyes.
This country, like many Western countries, faces some very serious
international criminal activity. Meth been one the Pacific in New
(07:23):
Zealand snificant.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
What about China? What's concerned with China? Do you share
the FBI's concerns about China and the Pacific, because they've
made it very clear that the top issue for them
is geopolitical and what China is up to.
Speaker 3 (07:37):
Well, New Zealand has independent foreign policy. The FBI can
express their view. We are part of Five Eyes. We
have a long standing relationship with America, but equally, we
are fortunate to live in a part of the world
where we have China as a trading nation and a
neighbor that supports our economy as well, and I think
(08:01):
New Zealand has ably stepped through a relationship with both
of those countries.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
But you talk about independent foreign policy, Duncan Web. Does
the FBI being in town does that chip away at
our independence in terms of foreign affairs?
Speaker 1 (08:15):
Well?
Speaker 4 (08:15):
I don't think it does, but I do think we
need to point out that we've got a long history
of transnational cooperation. There's Interpol, there's a Mutual Assistance in
Criminal Matters Act, and the FBI being essentially on the
ground with an office is stepping beyond that.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
So lawyer Brian Henry, who's been representing ex members of
the Glory of Vale community, says the time has come,
with the leader now convicted sex offender, for the government
to intervene and take over the running of the place.
Duncan were, what's your view on that?
Speaker 4 (08:46):
Look, I think there's an argument for it. Right, when organizations,
big organizations fail, the government does get power to appoint
a statutory manager. Did it with South Canterbury Finance. It's
done it before. And this is ess actially an organization
with a whole lot of vulnerable people, a whole lot
of children, and it's not good. There's a lot of
(09:10):
harm that occurs there. The EERO has seen time and
again that the school that's on site there is not
delivering good educational outcomes for kids. I don't think it
ever will or ever can. So I'm actually leaning towards
Brian Henry's view here.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Right, So it's around it way of saying, yes, the
government should take over.
Speaker 4 (09:29):
We'll certainly should do more, and this government has stepped back.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Hold on them, LORDI hold on them.
Speaker 1 (09:34):
No.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
We had what did you guys do well?
Speaker 4 (09:37):
Two things or more than many, more than two things.
We put together a cross ministerial group to actually push
things like the education, the social services, the health services
going into Glory Vale, and to do more. The euro
report that's coming out is because we push for it
and it's been oncoming through.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
That's all very well, and I'm sure we've come up
with other examples, but none of them have done anything
to deal with the fact that there are kids living
there being abused by some pedophiles.
Speaker 4 (10:06):
Yeah, and the police, the police actually had a task
force which was constantly going in and also not just
going in kind of in a police way of building
relationships because one of the problems and I went to
the de Cult conference here and heard about it from
one of the one of the victims. One of the
problems is that the victims don't feel ready to speak
out because of the huge power and balance that goes
(10:28):
on in that place. So the police were working hard.
There was disestablished under this government.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Right, Matt, do you see what's the government? What is
the government going to do?
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Well? I think it's first to point out that Brian
Henry hasn't called for Gloria Vale to close the government.
I think his words were there was a group of
law abiding citizens living there. I am not of the
same view as Duncan that the government should intervene in
(10:58):
the sense of whether it's taking it over or maybe
establishing a commissioner. But clearly, if this concerns around young people,
that should be reported to police.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
No, no, well don't come to us. Could ring the
police act?
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Yes, I disagree that that That is the society we
live in. People have free choice to live in.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
What about the kids? The kids don't have free choice.
But it wasn't expected such a lame response.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
Respect that that. Well, that's your definition, it's not mine.
That is why we have the safeguarding of a Tamadiki.
We have police if people report criminal activity. We, as
Duncan alluded to, there's multiple government agencies that intervene within
(11:56):
their powers and that's what we would expect. But if
you are saying that, well, that's for your view, John,
But if you're really saying that, the answer is for
the government to take an independent organization, charity or entity over,
I disagree for the people against and charity.
Speaker 4 (12:17):
It's it's a coercive cult that causes harm a whole
lot of people. And there are there are innocent people there.
I get it, and there are people that just want
their life. But at its heart, it is rotten.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
That you're allowed your view, Dunk, and I expect that.
But I'll come back to my original point. Brian Henry,
who's the lawyer prosecuting this, actually said he didn't agree
with it being disbanded. There was enough Laura biding citizens
no wanting to live within that and that's the lord.
Speaker 4 (12:48):
Even Trust doesn't say it should be disbanded, but they
do say that people should, that it should be managed,
and people should be freer to leave and free of
the coercion and control that currently exists.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
But I know ring the police talk to someone who's interested.
The other night, Shane Jones had dinner, had maybe one
or three red wines, turned his phone off and missed
the tsunami text alert. Don't can we risk of becoming
a bit complacent with all of these alerts.
Speaker 4 (13:17):
They are actually pretty important. You know, I did see
Mark Mitchell yesterday. It was and I see done. You
know you wake me up early. A bit of a laugh.
But actually, you know, if people are walking their dogs
on the beach and they get some title surge, you know,
could it could turn nasty. So we do have to
take notice of them. It's for Shane Jones or he's
a grown up. You know, he can look after himself.
I'm not gonna I'm not gonna tell him what to do.
(13:38):
You'd be a brave man if you did.
Speaker 2 (13:39):
He's done. He's done worse than turn his phone off. Mate,
dooci well?
Speaker 3 (13:43):
I presume if you turn your phone off, when you
turn it back on, the alert would pop up.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Apparently that happened with people on a flight to christ
Church the other afternoon. Someone someone told us, yeah, they
got off the phone.
Speaker 3 (13:55):
I just think it's one of those things. You're damned
if you do and you're damned if you don't write
and look that it was. It was pretty loud. I
was up in Wellington sixth th eighty am. It went
on any kind of think really, but it's.
Speaker 4 (14:09):
Really disturbing when you're at the gym at that time
of the morning, isn't it, Matt Well.
Speaker 3 (14:12):
That's where it was. Actually go to the gym at
six am every morning in Parliament. How many others there,
I'd say on average is about four maybe five. Funny enough,
I've never seen Duncan in there at that.
Speaker 2 (14:26):
I thought you can say he was in shamee there.
He's more a late night chim going.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
No, I'm in there at six am every morning, diligently
walking on the treadmill with my coffee.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
More a cardio guy.
Speaker 4 (14:39):
I wouldn't have guessed that we look it that your
back surprised.
Speaker 3 (14:42):
That's clearly not delivering outcomes from my activity.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
That's why he was so interested in the protein bar.
Have gotten on the table here. Okay, are you're a
protein powder guy or you're just a cardio No.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
I'm starting into that creating power. Yeah, apparently for older
people at help, so I'm trying it.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
Brilliant it's all good, but you're also putting your energy
into trying to get rid of the tea too lane.
On what the hell is this all about?
Speaker 3 (15:06):
Lock of people go to ww dot MATDC dot co
dot Nz. They'll see the petition on the main page.
They can click out that. They can fill out the
petition and lot lets unlock the potential the wymuck at
edit Bridge.
Speaker 4 (15:22):
That's because you've got a ticket for being in the
T two lane and you're doing all this just to
get off your ticket.
Speaker 3 (15:27):
No, that is incorrect. And lot people come to me
and they say it's about time we turfed Labour's T
two lane. All right, hold two turn off.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
I'm a treat to know why someone who is actually
holds a cabinet portfolio needs a petition to get a
message through to your government. What are you doing? You're
just trying to gather people's email addresses for the election campaign.
Speaker 3 (15:49):
No, if you jump on ww dot MATDC dot co
dot nz and fill out the petition, you'll see I'm
petitioning n z t A. They are the one responsible
for this. They're currently undertaking a review of the T
two lane. So what I've agreed with my constituents, as
the MP for Ymuck and Eddie is with their petition,
we're garnering the support and we will presenting that as
(16:12):
part of the review because in all seriousness, if you're
trying to get on the motorway at the tram Road
on ramp and you've got multiple lanes cramming into a
singular lane, you've got one that's just sitting there vacant,
it causes congestion, actually causes safety concerns like what well,
like I say, when you've got multiple people turning into
(16:32):
one lane, you've got the right hand turn from people
coming from Oxford cussed Hoker, You've got people turning left
coming from Kyro.
Speaker 4 (16:42):
You've got you've got a cabinet minister, you've got a
Minister of the South Island who's the Associate Minister of Transport. Yes,
they can walk down the hall and say, hey, look,
I know you've changed the speed limit at you know
what end? Would your mind also changing the T two lane.
This whole idea, We do know it's all about getting
emails signatures. I've had a lot put your emails.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
You know.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
About team the view of my we do need.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
They merge into one lane.
Speaker 4 (17:15):
He's had a really good crackit.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
Just go out to your listeners. John, Here you have
a Member of Parliament for christ Church trying to dictate
to people coming down the Northern Corridor from ymuked Eddy
around real issues they have about reliable travel times, and
quite rightly, it's a persistent issue and as a local MP,
(17:37):
I've responded to that. Right, that's what I do with
my job.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
How much time? How much time would you save people
if you got rid of the T two.
Speaker 3 (17:43):
Well it's not necessarily about time, it's also safety. So
people are saying it's quite a safety concern.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Well, they just need to pull their heads in and
just cooperate, don't they.
Speaker 3 (17:51):
Well, John, my role is to represent people and that's
what they've come to me for to represent. So I
take my job seriously.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
So so how's it increasing the speed limits consistent with
your safety argument?
Speaker 3 (18:02):
Well, what we want to do is give people reliable
travel times into the city and what we've got is
Labour's T two lane. That was a turn off. That's
stopping people utilizing the full capacity of the white So.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
We have this this is this is on way. You're laughing.
You don't even believe it yourself.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
So people know I'm as strong advocate. I was successful
in petitioning my own government and three laning the wy
Marke at Edy Bridge. That wasn't going to happen.
Speaker 2 (18:30):
So I said that did use a petition or need
a petition?
Speaker 3 (18:34):
Petition? Simon bridge is a transfer?
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Did you get use a petition with people signing up
to it?
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Yes, for the three laning of the bridge?
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Okay. And and just on record, you can guarantee that
if someone goes in there and puts the email address
for your petition, they will not start getting emails from
you during the election campaign next year. No, No, it's
a guarantee. Yeah, that's fine, that's not database.
Speaker 3 (18:55):
No, look, I don't I'm noted in that. I'm interested
in getting as many signatures as possible and taking them
to n ZTA and say these are people's views.
Speaker 4 (19:05):
Well, I think actually, I don't want to touch on
the real issue, which is how we move people faster,
and it's not by one car at a time with
one person in it. The T two lane for buses
and multiple people is actually a really good thing. We
need to encourage people to use the bus, you know,
the buses and fill up cars and you sure you
can talk to your constituency about this, but at the
(19:28):
end of the day, we've got a large project which
is to move people from one place to another as
effectively as possible and as low carbon as possible.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Which giving up, you're giving up.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
I'm not talking about the T two lane down the
Northern Corridor. There's a specific strip only over the breeze,
and I'm talking about that on the partition.
Speaker 2 (19:54):
I've got a question, got a question of it. This
is w of a manager. Actually, don't get now the
opportunities to come up. You're being on there about carbon
and getting people sharing transport and all that. I'm just
curious to know why the Risch at Central MP it's
a massive, big, full Labor branded four wheel drive vehicle.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
Yeah, okay, yeah, and I use that sometimes when I
need to and sometimes I'm on my bike, but I
absolutely as you well know.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
So you needed that to drive to the labor meeting
opposite the old Court building. You needed a full wheel
drive vehicle to get you aroundtown, and.
Speaker 4 (20:28):
That sometimes I do sometimes I don't.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
All right, Thank you both, Matt Ducy, thank you, Thanks John.
You've gone for requitement.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
No, I just think it's brilliant that we've got a
world where people have choice options and government stays out
of their way and Duncan can drive the biquet once brilliant.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
I'm just gonna walk back to my office.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
Thank you, Duncan. Nice to see you both. Have we
good week.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
For more from Category Mornings with John McDonald, listen live
to news Talks It'd be christ Church from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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