Today on Politics Friday, John MacDonald was joined by Megan Woods and Matt Doocey to delve into the biggest stories of the week.
They discussed the tougher immigration policies the Government is introducing to tackle overstayers, the struggling and overworked justice system, and housing intensification in Christchurch.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald
from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
It'd be if the wind's picking up it. Maybe it's
the weather, or maybe it's the fact that politics Friday
is about to begin. Man doci morning. Well, it was.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
A good morning until I don't know it's coming here,
insulted John.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Well, you got the jacket on us. What did you say?
It was clear? Eighteen degrees? Twenty degrees?
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Oh wow, isn't that great?
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Not that I'm expect you to come in here and
take your clothes off, but you know you seem to
be overdressed. Yep.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
No, I can make sure I come in with shorts
and the singlet next time. Or maybe we could pop
out to the Margaret Murray playgrounds, a bit of grass
out there and go up for a bit of sunbathe
and brilliant.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
All right, make it nice to see you.
Speaker 4 (00:48):
In appropriately dressed for the twenty degrees. Lovely to see
you two. John.
Speaker 5 (00:54):
It's a light spring jacket.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Are you recognizing the passing of George Oamary.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
It's not in a money jacket, but it is appropriate
for twenty degrees.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Very good. Let's talk about overstates because We've been very
busy for the first hour of the show this morning
talking about the issue of immigration and the Green Party
saying that there should be an amnesty on overstairs, which
I think I've come around to because the question I
put to people this morning is what do we achieve
(01:24):
when we kick people out of the country? Now, Megan Woods,
this is something that Chris Hipkins floated before the last
election but was shot down by Andrew Little who was
Immigration Minister at the time. Where do you stand on it?
Speaker 4 (01:34):
So labor has in the past done amnesties when Helen
Clark was Prime Minister. Certainly what we did after COVID,
which was the twenty twenty one visa, they were for
legal migrants, they were people on work visas, saying that
if you've been here for a period of time that
actually you've got a pathway to residency and doing that.
(01:57):
One of the really difficult things, and I'm sure Matt
sees this as an electorate MP as well, is where
you do have people who aren't legal, what happens to
the kids? So the kids under United Nations conventions have
a right to education, so that often it's talking to
schools getting them enrolled it's really really difficult.
Speaker 5 (02:19):
Also, one of the other.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Are you saying that you you have regular dealings with
illegal immigrants?
Speaker 5 (02:26):
Absolutely, I'm sure every electric office in the country.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Yeah, yeah, so are you. But like, I'll come to you, mate,
But are you a bit like the priest who has
confession and someone confesses to something, but the priests can't
go and tell the cops. Are you in the same
boat with the legal immigrants?
Speaker 4 (02:42):
The reason they come to see us is usually because
they're trying to make themselves legal. So often that will
be about putting together like a package with an immigration
consultants to try and find them a pathway to being
a legal legal migrant. This is the kind of stuff
electric officers do all the time. But one of the
other real issues is actually access to healthcare. Because of
(03:05):
course there's someone's in a legal migrant, they can't access
the health care system. So one of the things that
we know happens you talk to some doptors practices, is
they have people turning up with a whole lot of
afflictions that aren't their own, trying to access healthcare for
other people that.
Speaker 5 (03:21):
Are staying in the house.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
You have overcrowding, you have poverty in those households because
people can't work.
Speaker 5 (03:27):
It's not a win win for anyone.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Okay, so you've said a lot without actually saying whether
you agree with that amnesty.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
Look, I think you we do need to look at
some kind of amnesty, is my personal opinion. I don't
know if it's for everyone that I think that you
can certainly.
Speaker 5 (03:42):
Do categories there as well.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
Because when people come to New Zealand, there is an
expectation that they are bide by the rules of their visa.
There's a variety of reasons why people find themselves illegal.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
You're prepared to turn a blind eye, turn the cheek.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
No, what I'm saying is I actually think rather than
blind eyes and turning of cheeks that actually I personally
would like to see a process where we could work
through pathways to making people legal.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Matt Doucie, what do we get out of kicking people
out of the country? I want you to answer, honestly,
what how do we benefit?
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Well, the first thing I'd say, John is quite obviously
I wouldn't agree with the Greens wanting an amnesty. I mean,
let's get real here. You know, we are a rule
based country and Basically what they're saying is come in
and break the rules and you will be rewarded for that.
So quite rightly, I wouldn't agree with that, and that
(04:37):
probably answers your question, which doesn't really. It does actually
a good run without interrupting it, and I'm trying to
answer your question and you're interrupting me. So people obviously
come in under visas got very clear terms and conditions. I,
like many of other Kiwis, have done the oe. I've
lived in London for fifteen years, lined up at Croydon
(05:00):
to get your visa renewed, very clear terms and conditions.
If you didn't get it renewed, you're out of the country.
And I think we have to make sure that we
respect that and we are known as a country that
is rule based. In fact, i'd point you to Nigel Farage,
and I'm not necessarily a fan of his at the
time of Brexit, and he's no fan of migration. He
(05:23):
actually pointed to New Zealand as a gold standard of
an immigration system that was skill based. So I actually
think we should be proud of our system and protect it.
And if people come in and they are unlawful, then
they should suffer the consequences.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Consequences you really want to be held up as an
example as a best case example by someone like Nigel Farage.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
Well, you can take Farage out of it and say, actually,
internationally our immigration system is world leading, and what Meghan
explains is actually already there. We do have a compassion
process where you can go through your local MP up
to the Associate Immigration Minister and he can look at
it in compassionate terms. But as a prince, we should
(06:07):
not be sending the signal off shore that we're a
light touch around our immigration set.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
So have you personally helped someone who was in a
legal immigrant stay.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Yes, And I'll give you an example. There was a
lady and it staggered me, but she came to me.
She would have been.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
About thirty thirty five.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
She actually had never left the country before, and she
found out that she didn't have a lawful status because
back then she came in with her parents as a
young child. So there needs to be a compassionate route
and that already exists.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
And that is a really really typical scenario that Mets
describing that it's a lot of people that came here
as kids. They only find out when they go to
apply for a passport or something that they don't actually
have legal citizenship. So it's not a case of people
coming in and willfully breaking the rules all the time.
Speaker 5 (06:55):
The other thing, John, that.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Which is interesting though, because your default position was to
go to the whole thing about these people are breaking
the rules and go And it was only when I
asked you you gave an example of the nuances.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
Of starting position of the rules as you abide by
the rules like every other country, and if your visa
does not allow you to be here, you should leave.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
And you do not think that the special relationship in
New Zealand has with Pacific Island countries, for example, might
blur the lines a bit there.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
Not necessarily because that is set up within the rules
of our immigration system. And let's be very clear, you
should not set rules and then encourage people to flap them,
all right.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
I think, Sorry, John, I am just going to jump
in there. The data that was released yesterday actually I
think would surprise some people. It's not just people from
the Pacific who are here, and the USA was third,
so that I think there's sometimes some assumptions that are made.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Arrivals in the last six months Friday, Nationals, Megan. What
what I was saying is Nationals, macdocy Labors and Meagan Woods.
You just cross the floor, then you two are that?
Speaker 5 (08:11):
How sleight of hand? We didn't even notice that, John.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
What chance would what chance would you give that of happening? Matt,
you're not so quick? What do you mean crossing the
floor to labor? Well on.
Speaker 5 (08:26):
Anyway, I noticed he didn't actually give you a chance.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
He's just said, honestly, came straight in.
Speaker 5 (08:32):
Worth worth zero meats obviously.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
For the show.
Speaker 5 (08:41):
Got my membership.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
I mean Megan's too quick with a drawers. She doesn't
give it any atmosphere. But no, there's no chance of.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
That because you want to hang around for the leadership vacancy.
By the end of the year, it's no leadership vacancy. John,
it's nineteen past ten. So so Ron Young used to
cheer the parole Board. Used to be a High Court judge,
and he was saying yesterday that after the top judge
put out her annual report, saying, well, if the systems
struggling with too many people, too many cases, maybe we
(09:08):
shorten sentences because then that reduces the risk of people
becoming career criminals and we don't have a pipeline of
people coming into the system to be dealt with. Well
you reckon about that idea.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
Well, I suppose when you weigh up your options, potentially
that could be one solution. One eye wouldn't back, and
I know this government wouldn't back and face we've got
rules well quite no, but quite the opposite. We've made
sure that people who commit crime actually face the full
force of the justice system and there's very little discounting
going on now. So what would we point to is
(09:39):
speeding up the justice process. And let's be very clear
this report, although is highlighting it isn't necessarily telling us
anything new. We did understand the wait times coming into
government and that's why we've got quite a reform package
with Paul Goldsmith and Nicole McKee who is the Minister
for Courts. Well, it's more district court judges for a start, yep,
(10:04):
but also two more, but also digitizing our court processes
that will speed a lot of things upward.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
I mean someone has sent to this one does that mean?
Speaker 3 (10:12):
Well, I think of you look at some of the
footage sometimes you see in courts of the amount of
paper that would give you a good example of some
very old systems that actually need to be digitized, which
actually makes things move a lot quicker. And actually we've
learned through time of COVID the ability to have more
(10:35):
online as well. So that's all the stuff we're moving through.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Hold on, hold on. Through COVID, the whole court system
just came to a standstill. We can't say that you
learned from that, can you.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Well, you are right, there was a lot of pressures.
But actually, when I look at one area with a
my portfolio, the ability to use online for mental health
assessments going through a legislative process that helped speed that
up and helped people be able to present from where
they were geographically. So there's a whole ranch of trunch
(11:10):
of changes there, and quite rightly, that's what we should
focus on. But to your original point, should we reduce
the time? Then the answers clearly know.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
So I don't think that any conversations we have about
sentencing should be about because court.
Speaker 5 (11:27):
The court's clocked.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
So the initiatives that Matt talked about in terms of
moving away from a paper based system and using audio
visual is actually work that began when we were in government.
So it's good to see that that is continuing because
actually that the particularly moving away from the paper base
court system is actually something that Dame Helen, the author
of the report, play some hope on in terms of
speeding up the court process.
Speaker 5 (11:50):
I think one of.
Speaker 4 (11:51):
The things that we also have to keep a really
close eye on is the so called back office jobs
that this government's so keen of cutting that none of
those are actually adding to delays in that court system.
Because the effect of the matter is that if we're
seeing the thing that people are penning their hopes on
in terms of the paperwork that we see that Beck
(12:11):
offers functions sometimes are actually quite important. But this is
a report that should be taken seriously by any government.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
All Right, let me check When was the last time
you had an energy drink? Megan?
Speaker 4 (12:23):
I couldn't even tell you, Matt Doucy, unless you call
chardonnay energy drink?
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Okay, when last time having Tuesday nights brilliant, Matt Doucy,
When was the last time you had an energy drink?
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Well, I drink coffee, But I think you're talking about
the energy drinks in a can, yes, and the ban
in the UK and is probably a couple of years
ago now, but boy, I used to drink a lot
of them at the time.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
So the government in the UK is going to ban
under sixteens from getting access to whether they'll achieve them
not drinking it, but they're going to ban energy drinks
for under sixteens. Matt Doocy, you had did you have
a put an issue with energy drinks at one time?
Speaker 3 (13:06):
I was just explained here in the break John probably
about twenty years ago, because Red Bull's been around for
a while, right, and about twenty years ago when I
was living in London, they rarely exploded on the scene.
The supermarkets were wholesaling their own brands. So I wasn't
a coffee drinker, but I ended up drinking a lot
of energy drinks, to the point where I actually transitioned
(13:27):
onto coffee because they actually thought it wasn't that.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
How many would you have been drinking? Do you think? Well?
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Back then they were selling liter bottles for about eighty
nine p which is probably about a dollar seventy, Yeah,
so it was pretty accessible.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Would you be knocking one of those off a day?
Speaker 3 (13:43):
I probably wouldn't be that much, but it would probably
get up there at times, and so I just think
I'm a bit more into the education route. I'm not
sure the government hasn't any plans to reduce or put
a minimum age at the moment for energy drinks, but
I do think we need to raise awareness of them.
I know some supermarkets in New Zealand have put that
(14:05):
band in as well as guls, but I think at
times you could probably underestimate the amount of caffeine and
the drink because old me that's what we're talking about,
the issue of consuming caffeine and then helping young people
understand the effects of drinking too much caffeine and the
ability to concentrate at school all day.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Yeah, yeah, Meghan, what do you think about a band?
Speaker 5 (14:26):
Well, it's not something that we've looked at personally.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
Personally, it's like with all bands, is it actually going
to have the desired outcome? And that's why actually seeing
what happens in the UK will be interesting, I think
for everyone, just to see if it does have that
desired outcome. Last thing we want is a black market
in energy drinks, because actually New Zealand has, amongst the world,
some of the more stringent ingredient rules around what can
(14:52):
be in energy drinks, because of course it's not just
caffeine that you've got to counter all that caffeine with
all the sugar to make them palatable. So I would
like to see to see it that what we did
was spawn a black market in them. They were actually
worse for people, but not something we're looking at.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Okay, all right, one final thing to take off. We
had quite an energetic conversation on the show yesterday about
housing intensification. My viewers. I think that the Christian City
Council needs to stop pushing back and just accept that
housing intensification is the way of the future. Does christ
j which need to pull its head and.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
Mean, well, every council's got to show to government how
it's going to account for growth, and that is a
good thing and that's something that does need to happen.
What I'm a bit confused about, and I don't know
if you've got it clear, John, but how the decision
made last week or this week, whichever week it was,
fits with the decision made in December twenty four around
(15:45):
the commercial zone. So that was the one that allowed
up to six stories in places like Hornbee Belfast. So
those commercial centers I'd actually like to see a map
that now brings all the different decisions that have been
made under Plan chains to fourteen.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
So should we But do we need to stop pushing
back and just accept that right, this is how it's
going to be.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
Well, one of the things that I've always been a
fear advocate from is that some suburbs shouldn't have to
bear more of the burden than others. That one of
the things that we can't have carve outs where you
have places like Hornby having to take six story places
will other places don't even do three stories. That there's
actually got to be a fear sharing of this across
(16:24):
the city because I don't think six stories are necessarily
right for Hornby as their local representative.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Why.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
I think it's too intense. I think that three stories
that yes, you could do, but I wouldn't like to
see Hornby having to wear the six stories or you
have other parts of the city where you can't even
do three stories. So I'd just like to see a
map that puts all these kind of different piecemeal decisions
together and we see what the future of the city.
But do we need more houses, Yes, it will make
(16:53):
it more affordable.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
I do see what do you reckon t top Christians
just to say, well, right, just can't be farm get
with the century and accept that housing intensification is the
way forward, because as I said yesterday, we're saying that
we want all these people to come here, and you
know film major banging on saying about this is the
city of the future. We're going to have roofs over
their heads, don't we Yeah, very much so.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
And you only need to look around where we are
at the moment for the amount of intensification that is
going on in the center of the city.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
I take a.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
Slightly different view. I mean, I think the council has
accepted it, and actually I think all credit to fill
in the council team. I think they have navigated through
the issue of intensification across two governments now. I think
they've been quite pragmatic, quite common sense, and I think
where it's going to land is quite right. Chris Bishop,
(17:44):
the Housing Minister, made it very clear that they needed
to fulfill the obligation of sixty eight thousand dwellings identified
for the next thirty years. They've been able to do
that and quite a targeted plan. So I think Ime
good on them all right.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
And if Chris Bishop thinks otherwise, you'll change your thinking.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
Well, what we want to do is ensure that cities
are planning for the future. That's why we've set them
that target of sixty eight thousand, and my understanding, the
plan that got endorsed by the council in the last
few days delivers that.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
So well done. All right, Leicester, listen to that council
ring an endorsement. Nice to see you both. Enjoy your weekend, Matt.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
Thanks John, go the all Blacks Go, the All Blacks
and the Mighty Red and Black.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
A nothing a shield game, the Shield Challenge? What's the
result going to be of that? First of all, Megan,
what is the result of the Shield Challenge going to be?
And what is the result of the Shield Challenge you
would like to see?
Speaker 4 (18:40):
Look, I don't know what the result's going to be,
and I think that's one of the great things about
shield rugby that often they are quite unpredictable wins. And John,
as you well know, because I was saying to you
in the break, I wouldn't be as upset as I
would be if Kenterbury didn't win it this weekend because
I actually think it's good for New Zealand rugby when
(19:01):
the shield is shared around, particularly around regional unions. I
think that strengthened a great excitement. You just need to
look at the buzz that was happening and then the cargo.
But then that said, I'm a cataprian, so I wouldn't
be said if we won.
Speaker 5 (19:14):
It either, she wouldn't be said.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Then she wouldn't be said.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
I think I'm gonna be happy either way.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Who Canterbury?
Speaker 3 (19:22):
Yeah, I mean you can actually look at my Facebook
page two weeks ago. I made the prediction Canterbury would
beat Southland because I tracked back.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Covering all the big issues.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Taranaki and then the Stags beating White Hado. So I
tracked it out in two weeks ago. You can see
it on the Facebook. I made the prediction.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
You've become a even.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Before even before Southland one, I knew it was going
to happen, and a lot the shield's coming home sports
to we all remember the trauma of nineteen eighty five.
But then it's the bark.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Careful, Darcy, this guy's after your job. He's not after
Luxles's job, He's after Darcy.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
Yeah, well we have those parades in the street again
that we had when we were kids.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Love to see you both, whenever the result. Enjoy your weekend.
Thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
S For more from Category Mornings with John McDonald, listen
live to news talks at be Christchurch from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald
from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
It'd be if the wind's picking up it. Maybe it's
the weather, or maybe it's the fact that politics Friday
is about to begin. Man doci morning. Well, it was.
Speaker 3 (00:21):
A good morning until I don't know it's coming here,
insulted John.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Well, you got the jacket on us. What did you say?
It was clear? Eighteen degrees? Twenty degrees?
Speaker 3 (00:30):
Oh wow, isn't that great?
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Not that I'm expect you to come in here and
take your clothes off, but you know you seem to
be overdressed. Yep.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
No, I can make sure I come in with shorts
and the singlet next time. Or maybe we could pop
out to the Margaret Murray playgrounds, a bit of grass
out there and go up for a bit of sunbathe
and brilliant.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
All right, make it nice to see you.
Speaker 4 (00:48):
In appropriately dressed for the twenty degrees. Lovely to see
you two. John.
Speaker 5 (00:54):
It's a light spring jacket.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
Are you recognizing the passing of George Oamary.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
It's not in a money jacket, but it is appropriate
for twenty degrees.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Very good. Let's talk about overstates because We've been very
busy for the first hour of the show this morning
talking about the issue of immigration and the Green Party
saying that there should be an amnesty on overstairs, which
I think I've come around to because the question I
put to people this morning is what do we achieve
(01:24):
when we kick people out of the country? Now, Megan Woods,
this is something that Chris Hipkins floated before the last
election but was shot down by Andrew Little who was
Immigration Minister at the time. Where do you stand on it?
Speaker 4 (01:34):
So labor has in the past done amnesties when Helen
Clark was Prime Minister. Certainly what we did after COVID,
which was the twenty twenty one visa, they were for
legal migrants, they were people on work visas, saying that
if you've been here for a period of time that
actually you've got a pathway to residency and doing that.
(01:57):
One of the really difficult things, and I'm sure Matt
sees this as an electorate MP as well, is where
you do have people who aren't legal, what happens to
the kids? So the kids under United Nations conventions have
a right to education, so that often it's talking to
schools getting them enrolled it's really really difficult.
Speaker 5 (02:19):
Also, one of the other.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Are you saying that you you have regular dealings with
illegal immigrants?
Speaker 5 (02:26):
Absolutely, I'm sure every electric office in the country.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Yeah, yeah, so are you. But like, I'll come to you, mate,
But are you a bit like the priest who has
confession and someone confesses to something, but the priests can't
go and tell the cops. Are you in the same
boat with the legal immigrants?
Speaker 4 (02:42):
The reason they come to see us is usually because
they're trying to make themselves legal. So often that will
be about putting together like a package with an immigration
consultants to try and find them a pathway to being
a legal legal migrant. This is the kind of stuff
electric officers do all the time. But one of the
other real issues is actually access to healthcare. Because of
(03:05):
course there's someone's in a legal migrant, they can't access
the health care system. So one of the things that
we know happens you talk to some doptors practices, is
they have people turning up with a whole lot of
afflictions that aren't their own, trying to access healthcare for
other people that.
Speaker 5 (03:21):
Are staying in the house.
Speaker 4 (03:22):
You have overcrowding, you have poverty in those households because
people can't work.
Speaker 5 (03:27):
It's not a win win for anyone.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Okay, so you've said a lot without actually saying whether
you agree with that amnesty.
Speaker 4 (03:33):
Look, I think you we do need to look at
some kind of amnesty, is my personal opinion. I don't
know if it's for everyone that I think that you
can certainly.
Speaker 5 (03:42):
Do categories there as well.
Speaker 4 (03:43):
Because when people come to New Zealand, there is an
expectation that they are bide by the rules of their visa.
There's a variety of reasons why people find themselves illegal.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
You're prepared to turn a blind eye, turn the cheek.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
No, what I'm saying is I actually think rather than
blind eyes and turning of cheeks that actually I personally
would like to see a process where we could work
through pathways to making people legal.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Matt Doucie, what do we get out of kicking people
out of the country? I want you to answer, honestly,
what how do we benefit?
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Well, the first thing I'd say, John is quite obviously
I wouldn't agree with the Greens wanting an amnesty. I mean,
let's get real here. You know, we are a rule
based country and Basically what they're saying is come in
and break the rules and you will be rewarded for that.
So quite rightly, I wouldn't agree with that, and that
(04:37):
probably answers your question, which doesn't really. It does actually
a good run without interrupting it, and I'm trying to
answer your question and you're interrupting me. So people obviously
come in under visas got very clear terms and conditions. I,
like many of other Kiwis, have done the oe. I've
lived in London for fifteen years, lined up at Croydon
(05:00):
to get your visa renewed, very clear terms and conditions.
If you didn't get it renewed, you're out of the country.
And I think we have to make sure that we
respect that and we are known as a country that
is rule based. In fact, i'd point you to Nigel Farage,
and I'm not necessarily a fan of his at the
time of Brexit, and he's no fan of migration. He
(05:23):
actually pointed to New Zealand as a gold standard of
an immigration system that was skill based. So I actually
think we should be proud of our system and protect it.
And if people come in and they are unlawful, then
they should suffer the consequences.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Consequences you really want to be held up as an
example as a best case example by someone like Nigel Farage.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
Well, you can take Farage out of it and say, actually,
internationally our immigration system is world leading, and what Meghan
explains is actually already there. We do have a compassion
process where you can go through your local MP up
to the Associate Immigration Minister and he can look at
it in compassionate terms. But as a prince, we should
(06:07):
not be sending the signal off shore that we're a
light touch around our immigration set.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
So have you personally helped someone who was in a
legal immigrant stay.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
Yes, And I'll give you an example. There was a
lady and it staggered me, but she came to me.
She would have been.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
About thirty thirty five.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
She actually had never left the country before, and she
found out that she didn't have a lawful status because
back then she came in with her parents as a
young child. So there needs to be a compassionate route
and that already exists.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
And that is a really really typical scenario that Mets
describing that it's a lot of people that came here
as kids. They only find out when they go to
apply for a passport or something that they don't actually
have legal citizenship. So it's not a case of people
coming in and willfully breaking the rules all the time.
Speaker 5 (06:55):
The other thing, John, that.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Which is interesting though, because your default position was to
go to the whole thing about these people are breaking
the rules and go And it was only when I
asked you you gave an example of the nuances.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
Of starting position of the rules as you abide by
the rules like every other country, and if your visa
does not allow you to be here, you should leave.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
And you do not think that the special relationship in
New Zealand has with Pacific Island countries, for example, might
blur the lines a bit there.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
Not necessarily because that is set up within the rules
of our immigration system. And let's be very clear, you
should not set rules and then encourage people to flap them,
all right.
Speaker 4 (07:37):
I think, Sorry, John, I am just going to jump
in there. The data that was released yesterday actually I
think would surprise some people. It's not just people from
the Pacific who are here, and the USA was third,
so that I think there's sometimes some assumptions that are made.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Arrivals in the last six months Friday, Nationals, Megan. What
what I was saying is Nationals, macdocy Labors and Meagan Woods.
You just cross the floor, then you two are that?
Speaker 5 (08:11):
How sleight of hand? We didn't even notice that, John.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
What chance would what chance would you give that of happening? Matt,
you're not so quick? What do you mean crossing the
floor to labor? Well on.
Speaker 5 (08:26):
Anyway, I noticed he didn't actually give you a chance.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
He's just said, honestly, came straight in.
Speaker 5 (08:32):
Worth worth zero meats obviously.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
For the show.
Speaker 5 (08:41):
Got my membership.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
I mean Megan's too quick with a drawers. She doesn't
give it any atmosphere. But no, there's no chance of.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
That because you want to hang around for the leadership vacancy.
By the end of the year, it's no leadership vacancy. John,
it's nineteen past ten. So so Ron Young used to
cheer the parole Board. Used to be a High Court judge,
and he was saying yesterday that after the top judge
put out her annual report, saying, well, if the systems
struggling with too many people, too many cases, maybe we
(09:08):
shorten sentences because then that reduces the risk of people
becoming career criminals and we don't have a pipeline of
people coming into the system to be dealt with. Well
you reckon about that idea.
Speaker 3 (09:18):
Well, I suppose when you weigh up your options, potentially
that could be one solution. One eye wouldn't back, and
I know this government wouldn't back and face we've got
rules well quite no, but quite the opposite. We've made
sure that people who commit crime actually face the full
force of the justice system and there's very little discounting
going on now. So what would we point to is
(09:39):
speeding up the justice process. And let's be very clear
this report, although is highlighting it isn't necessarily telling us
anything new. We did understand the wait times coming into
government and that's why we've got quite a reform package
with Paul Goldsmith and Nicole McKee who is the Minister
for Courts. Well, it's more district court judges for a start, yep,
(10:04):
but also two more, but also digitizing our court processes
that will speed a lot of things upward.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
I mean someone has sent to this one does that mean?
Speaker 3 (10:12):
Well, I think of you look at some of the
footage sometimes you see in courts of the amount of
paper that would give you a good example of some
very old systems that actually need to be digitized, which
actually makes things move a lot quicker. And actually we've
learned through time of COVID the ability to have more
(10:35):
online as well. So that's all the stuff we're moving through.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Hold on, hold on. Through COVID, the whole court system
just came to a standstill. We can't say that you
learned from that, can you.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
Well, you are right, there was a lot of pressures.
But actually, when I look at one area with a
my portfolio, the ability to use online for mental health
assessments going through a legislative process that helped speed that
up and helped people be able to present from where
they were geographically. So there's a whole ranch of trunch
(11:10):
of changes there, and quite rightly, that's what we should
focus on. But to your original point, should we reduce
the time? Then the answers clearly know.
Speaker 4 (11:20):
So I don't think that any conversations we have about
sentencing should be about because court.
Speaker 5 (11:27):
The court's clocked.
Speaker 4 (11:28):
So the initiatives that Matt talked about in terms of
moving away from a paper based system and using audio
visual is actually work that began when we were in government.
So it's good to see that that is continuing because
actually that the particularly moving away from the paper base
court system is actually something that Dame Helen, the author
of the report, play some hope on in terms of
speeding up the court process.
Speaker 5 (11:50):
I think one of.
Speaker 4 (11:51):
The things that we also have to keep a really
close eye on is the so called back office jobs
that this government's so keen of cutting that none of
those are actually adding to delays in that court system.
Because the effect of the matter is that if we're
seeing the thing that people are penning their hopes on
in terms of the paperwork that we see that Beck
(12:11):
offers functions sometimes are actually quite important. But this is
a report that should be taken seriously by any government.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
All Right, let me check When was the last time
you had an energy drink? Megan?
Speaker 4 (12:23):
I couldn't even tell you, Matt Doucy, unless you call
chardonnay energy drink?
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Okay, when last time having Tuesday nights brilliant, Matt Doucy,
When was the last time you had an energy drink?
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Well, I drink coffee, But I think you're talking about
the energy drinks in a can, yes, and the ban
in the UK and is probably a couple of years
ago now, but boy, I used to drink a lot
of them at the time.
Speaker 2 (12:48):
So the government in the UK is going to ban
under sixteens from getting access to whether they'll achieve them
not drinking it, but they're going to ban energy drinks
for under sixteens. Matt Doocy, you had did you have
a put an issue with energy drinks at one time?
Speaker 3 (13:06):
I was just explained here in the break John probably
about twenty years ago, because Red Bull's been around for
a while, right, and about twenty years ago when I
was living in London, they rarely exploded on the scene.
The supermarkets were wholesaling their own brands. So I wasn't
a coffee drinker, but I ended up drinking a lot
of energy drinks, to the point where I actually transitioned
(13:27):
onto coffee because they actually thought it wasn't that.
Speaker 2 (13:29):
How many would you have been drinking? Do you think? Well?
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Back then they were selling liter bottles for about eighty
nine p which is probably about a dollar seventy, Yeah,
so it was pretty accessible.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Would you be knocking one of those off a day?
Speaker 3 (13:43):
I probably wouldn't be that much, but it would probably
get up there at times, and so I just think
I'm a bit more into the education route. I'm not
sure the government hasn't any plans to reduce or put
a minimum age at the moment for energy drinks, but
I do think we need to raise awareness of them.
I know some supermarkets in New Zealand have put that
(14:05):
band in as well as guls, but I think at
times you could probably underestimate the amount of caffeine and
the drink because old me that's what we're talking about,
the issue of consuming caffeine and then helping young people
understand the effects of drinking too much caffeine and the
ability to concentrate at school all day.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Yeah, yeah, Meghan, what do you think about a band?
Speaker 5 (14:26):
Well, it's not something that we've looked at personally.
Speaker 4 (14:29):
Personally, it's like with all bands, is it actually going
to have the desired outcome? And that's why actually seeing
what happens in the UK will be interesting, I think
for everyone, just to see if it does have that
desired outcome. Last thing we want is a black market
in energy drinks, because actually New Zealand has, amongst the world,
some of the more stringent ingredient rules around what can
(14:52):
be in energy drinks, because of course it's not just
caffeine that you've got to counter all that caffeine with
all the sugar to make them palatable. So I would
like to see to see it that what we did
was spawn a black market in them. They were actually
worse for people, but not something we're looking at.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Okay, all right, one final thing to take off. We
had quite an energetic conversation on the show yesterday about
housing intensification. My viewers. I think that the Christian City
Council needs to stop pushing back and just accept that
housing intensification is the way of the future. Does christ
j which need to pull its head and.
Speaker 4 (15:25):
Mean, well, every council's got to show to government how
it's going to account for growth, and that is a
good thing and that's something that does need to happen.
What I'm a bit confused about, and I don't know
if you've got it clear, John, but how the decision
made last week or this week, whichever week it was,
fits with the decision made in December twenty four around
(15:45):
the commercial zone. So that was the one that allowed
up to six stories in places like Hornbee Belfast. So
those commercial centers I'd actually like to see a map
that now brings all the different decisions that have been
made under Plan chains to fourteen.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
So should we But do we need to stop pushing
back and just accept that right, this is how it's
going to be.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
Well, one of the things that I've always been a
fear advocate from is that some suburbs shouldn't have to
bear more of the burden than others. That one of
the things that we can't have carve outs where you
have places like Hornby having to take six story places
will other places don't even do three stories. That there's
actually got to be a fear sharing of this across
(16:24):
the city because I don't think six stories are necessarily
right for Hornby as their local representative.
Speaker 2 (16:31):
Why.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
I think it's too intense. I think that three stories
that yes, you could do, but I wouldn't like to
see Hornby having to wear the six stories or you
have other parts of the city where you can't even
do three stories. So I'd just like to see a
map that puts all these kind of different piecemeal decisions
together and we see what the future of the city.
But do we need more houses, Yes, it will make
(16:53):
it more affordable.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
I do see what do you reckon t top Christians
just to say, well, right, just can't be farm get
with the century and accept that housing intensification is the
way forward, because as I said yesterday, we're saying that
we want all these people to come here, and you
know film major banging on saying about this is the
city of the future. We're going to have roofs over
their heads, don't we Yeah, very much so.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
And you only need to look around where we are
at the moment for the amount of intensification that is
going on in the center of the city.
Speaker 2 (17:22):
I take a.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
Slightly different view. I mean, I think the council has
accepted it, and actually I think all credit to fill
in the council team. I think they have navigated through
the issue of intensification across two governments now. I think
they've been quite pragmatic, quite common sense, and I think
where it's going to land is quite right. Chris Bishop,
(17:44):
the Housing Minister, made it very clear that they needed
to fulfill the obligation of sixty eight thousand dwellings identified
for the next thirty years. They've been able to do
that and quite a targeted plan. So I think Ime
good on them all right.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
And if Chris Bishop thinks otherwise, you'll change your thinking.
Speaker 3 (18:03):
Well, what we want to do is ensure that cities
are planning for the future. That's why we've set them
that target of sixty eight thousand, and my understanding, the
plan that got endorsed by the council in the last
few days delivers that.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
So well done. All right, Leicester, listen to that council
ring an endorsement. Nice to see you both. Enjoy your weekend, Matt.
Speaker 3 (18:21):
Thanks John, go the all Blacks Go, the All Blacks
and the Mighty Red and Black.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
A nothing a shield game, the Shield Challenge? What's the
result going to be of that? First of all, Megan,
what is the result of the Shield Challenge going to be?
And what is the result of the Shield Challenge you
would like to see?
Speaker 4 (18:40):
Look, I don't know what the result's going to be,
and I think that's one of the great things about
shield rugby that often they are quite unpredictable wins. And John,
as you well know, because I was saying to you
in the break, I wouldn't be as upset as I
would be if Kenterbury didn't win it this weekend because
I actually think it's good for New Zealand rugby when
(19:01):
the shield is shared around, particularly around regional unions. I
think that strengthened a great excitement. You just need to
look at the buzz that was happening and then the cargo.
But then that said, I'm a cataprian, so I wouldn't
be said if we won.
Speaker 5 (19:14):
It either, she wouldn't be said.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
Then she wouldn't be said.
Speaker 4 (19:18):
I think I'm gonna be happy either way.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Who Canterbury?
Speaker 3 (19:22):
Yeah, I mean you can actually look at my Facebook
page two weeks ago. I made the prediction Canterbury would
beat Southland because I tracked back.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Covering all the big issues.
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Taranaki and then the Stags beating White Hado. So I
tracked it out in two weeks ago. You can see
it on the Facebook. I made the prediction.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
You've become a even.
Speaker 3 (19:42):
Before even before Southland one, I knew it was going
to happen, and a lot the shield's coming home sports
to we all remember the trauma of nineteen eighty five.
But then it's the bark.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
Careful, Darcy, this guy's after your job. He's not after
Luxles's job, He's after Darcy.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
Yeah, well we have those parades in the street again
that we had when we were kids.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
Love to see you both, whenever the result. Enjoy your weekend.
Thank you, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (20:05):
S For more from Category Mornings with John McDonald, listen
live to news talks at be Christchurch from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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