Today on Politics Friday, John MacDonald was joined by National’s Vanessa Weenink and Labour’s Megan Woods to delve into the biggest stories of the week.
Parliament's pressed pause to remember Te Pāti Māori MP Takutai Tarsh Kemp after she died yesterday as a result of kidney disease – what will happen going forward?
Doctors are unhappy with the Government’s new virtual GP service, are they right to be?
And what are their thoughts on taxpayer money potentially going to Moana Pasifika, with Whanau Ora’s funding of the association that owns them?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Canterbury Morning's Podcast with John McDonald
from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
We welcome the politicians, Megan Woods, welcome. Oh, hold on,
what's happening there? They are? Microphone has not not doesn't
seem to be working. I'll try that one. How's that one?
Speaker 3 (00:23):
How's that?
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Morning?
Speaker 1 (00:25):
John Morning? Ry that again?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
And nationals Venicea Winnings on the phone. Gillow Vanessa Morning,
John Morning, Meghan? Are you ever under the weather?
Speaker 4 (00:34):
I suspected clovers. My coffee tasted like crap this morning,
and it's not fear.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
It definitely goes into not Fear column. The coffee tasting
not good.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Can we just start by acknowledging the passing of Kemp Megan,
did the response that we saw in Parliament yesterday? Did
it kind of remind you that Parliament does actually have
a heart.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Absolutely, and I think everybody feels it. We feel it
for obviously the caucus that has been affected in this
case to Party Marty. I've been a member of a
caucus when we've lost a sitting MP in Partticua Hodimere
and it is just devastating. But I think it is
a time when politicians kind of hit the pause button
(01:22):
and take stock, because ultimately everybody goes there to serve.
And I think what we saw, you say was Parliament
and its best acknowledging that while we don't always agree
with each other, that Takatai went there as a champion
of her people, a champion of her community, and went
there to make a difference and to serve. And it
was wonderful to see that's very movingly acknowledged yesterday.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Yeah, Vanessa, I saw on the newslast night it was
a little bit of you and you obviously removed by it.
As a first term MP. Were you surprised at the
way Parliament responded?
Speaker 4 (01:58):
Well, actually no, because unfortunately this is the second time
it's happened in our turn.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
True.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
Yes, so no, it wasn't a surprise, And for me
the acknowledgments were very moving, and you know, I just
seen it the day before and been in the lift
with her, complimented on her on her purple scent. All
of the tributes around the Parliament were really beautifully said.
(02:29):
And also I always think of the people that are
most affected of her family, for her colleague, her friends,
and her constituents, and you know, the level of impact
that it has on other people affects me as much
as my own sort of shock. I guess yeah. It
is one of those things that I think is really likely,
(02:54):
even said, an example of how we all have a
lot in common underneath the surface things that divide us.
We are all there to serve. We all do come here,
go to Parliament with the boost of inteaching and I
always always deep to respeech my college of all sides
for that, and it's a loss for us all.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Can we talk about now the more mundane stuff that
politics is associated with, and the Inland Revenue putting out
it's the three yearly sort of looked to the future
and saying today I'll start with you me saying today
that it's inevitable that because of the aging population, we're
going to have to pay more tax and it's saying
suggested upp in income tax rates and paying more GST.
(03:40):
What's your response to that?
Speaker 3 (03:42):
And look, this isn't the first time that Inland Revenue
or Treasury even have sounded a warning about the looming
costs of superannuation. We've got an aging population in obviously
that cost money. It's one of the reasons why we
restarted the contributions to the superfund when we came into
government because we can't expecting to be taking it every
(04:02):
year out of that year's tax take. You've got to
put something away to prepare for it. But look, the
role of in their own revenue is to do tax
policy for the government. It's also the role of political
parties to come up with their own text policy. It's
exactly why Labor is going through a process thinking about revenue.
Of course, what we've seen from in lend revenue is
(04:23):
talking about GST and income tax. But labour's being very
open that we're going through a process thinking about getting
revenue from things other than people's uh wait, you know
wage pack it and that they're they're weekly or fortnightly pay.
That we start to think about how it is that
we tax other other other things in this country.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
So as Labor saying thanks but no thanks to IOD
in terms of p A y E and.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
GST, No, we've been very open John that we're saying
that we can't continue to only tax people's wages, that
we've got to have a lock at other things in
other ways of generating revenue. And we've been very open
about that and are going through a process with that.
Of course, advice on GS T and p A Y
is the bread and butter, and then lend revenue and
(05:09):
that's the kind of stuff that all governments consult with
in lean revenue on.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Right, what was the answer to the question, though, You've
talked about labor, So what's your response? You saying none
on a think more creatively than just targeting Poye and
gust Absolutely right, Okay, Vanessa. Is the government going to
listen to this or just put it in the tray
and then pass along eventually to the next administration.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
Well, we've been really clear we're not going to introduce
any new taxes in this term or anything like that.
What we're focused on is growing the economy so that
we've got more of the private news for the things
that we need. I think that's the thing. Is cutting
government spending, checking where we can get better bang for
our buck. Making sure that we've been effective fiscal managers
(05:54):
is really important. We don't need to just keep plundering
Kiwi's pockets. We need to actually grow the income for
this country and that's the most important thing that we
need to do so that we can do all of
the things that, hey, we deserve.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Do you think the government could ever bring itself to
admit that the tax cuts last year were in steak.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
No. I don't think we're going to admit that because
there's more money in Key's pockets and they are better
off spending their money themselves.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Well, actually they're not.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
Contribute to our economic recovery.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Well, they're not, they're not. There's a there's an accounting
in business advisory firm which has come out in recent
recent weeks saying we're actually five percent we're paying five
percent more tax. It's not necessarily through government tax, but
it's factoring in council rates and things. So to say
that we're paying we're paying less, will be better off
is not quite right.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
Well, I think that what the government is doing is
improved in the economy so that the situation is much
better than it was and would have spent.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
All governments want to grow the economy, All governments want
to grow the tax take. But I think what has
to be listened to is those warnings from Inland Revenue
and from Treasury around how it is we're going to
fund superannuation into the future, how it is that we
can make sure that we protect supernuation and that all
New Zealanders can rightly work their working lives knowing that
(07:14):
there is going to be enough money to pay them
their pension at the end of it. We can't just
say we're going to cut our way to this or
grow the economy because that happens. We're going to have
to do some more thinking. And this government is bearing
its right.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
So is it the difference taxation under labor and national
fingers trust hoping for economic growth?
Speaker 4 (07:34):
No, we're not just hoping. We're putting out policies and
working really hard to go our.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Economy the showpiece in the show piece our.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
Trade we've got. We've got incredibly hard, hard working ministers
who us doing that all the time.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Sorry about I thought you'd finished.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
You need to respect someone would come OVID. You need
to be very respectful of Vanessa.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
I thought she'd finished you, I thought she'd finished. But look,
I was going to point out. The show piece of
growth in this year's budget was one percent growth over
twenty years. That's the growth that is being projected from
the policies that this government is brought in. That is
not going to pack up the tab for superannuation.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Have you done the COVID test, Vanessa? Or you just
suspect that's what we've got.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
No, I just suspect I haven't. My last test out
of date by about six months. Suspicious.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
All right, let's talk about the Middle East. Who do
you believe in it? Who do you don't? Vanessa? Do
you believe? Do you believe Donald Trump when he says
that he has or the States has obliterated Iran's nuclear program?
How much of it are you swallowing?
Speaker 4 (08:43):
I think the approach that the Prime Minister and the
Minister of Foreign Affairs has been taking a really cautious
and appropriate. I think we should all wait and see
as more information comes to life.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Who do you believe? Come on, come on, I mean, I'm.
Speaker 4 (08:59):
Not going to be drawn on that. I don't think
it really contributes anything to it. Other doesn't just say Look.
I think we should all watch and wait, will find
out more, and I think we should be cautious to
jump to conclusions.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
All right. Should we read anything into the F bomb
that Trump, you know, fired off the other.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
Day, I mean he could. He must be extremely frustrated
with what's going on. He was hoping I think to
be the man swooping in and saving the day, and
so to have some kind of stuff it up straight
away must have been extremely frustrating. So I don't blame him.
I think he's probably absolutely right about his assessment of them.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Frankly, Megan, who do you believe him? Come on, I
want to on a real answer from you.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Okay, So my real answer is I think New Zealand
needs to take a stronger position in condemning the attacks
and pointing out they're not consistent with international law. New
Zealand has a long and proud and courageous history of
independent foreign policy. We go into the world with our
values and our beliefs. As New Zealand is, and New
(10:05):
Zealand is not doing at the moment, the government needs
to take a stronger position. We've done it before, Helen
Clark did it in condemning the illegal invasion of Iraq,
and I would like to see New Zealand live up
to that very proud legacy. So for me, it's not
do you believe them, don't believe it? These were not
consistent with international law and New Zealand should use its
(10:26):
voice in the international stage to voice that opinion.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
What if it turns out, though that it's been a
very successful intervention.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
They're not consistent with international law, and I think as
a small country at the bottom of the South Pacific,
our independent foreign policy is a very important place for
us to stand. It has been since the nineteen forties.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
You could say, though, couldn't you, that you can hide
behind international law. But international law hasn't necessarily prevented conflicts happening.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
No, but a rules base is the basis of New
Zealand's security. If we throw out the window a will
a rules based world order in the way in which
international relations are organized in New Zealand is in a
very precarious position. We do not have a very large
army or navy or air force that can defend us.
(11:15):
One of the things that most is most important for
our security is that we do have a rules based
world order, and we should stand up for that and
use our voice on every occasion.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
All of Vanessa. What's the government waiting to find out
or learn before it would consider taking a stance that
the Vegan talks about.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
Well, I'm not involved in any of those discussions. Obviously,
don't matters really for the Prime Minister and the minister, Well, what.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Would what would you want to find out or no
before you took a position.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
I mean, this is not an area of expertise at
all for me, And this is the kind of thing
where I think wise aheads and time will but.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
With respect but with respect to with respect to Megan,
it's probably it's probably not there of expertise of hers either,
and she's agreeing with that.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
Meghan's been a cabinet minister, probably had exposure to more
of these kind of discussions than I have, and been
in politics for longer than me. So look, I this
is not an area of expertise and it's really for
the Prime Minister and the Minister of Foreign Affairs all right.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Which seems to me sounds to me like the longer
you're in politics, the biddy you are, or more willing
you are to shoot. Shoot from that, it's ten twenty three.
What about that money going to Mowana PACIFICA Right, that's
up next, Vanessa. How appropriate is it that Fino order
money went into the Moana pacifica professional rugby team.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
Look, it doesn't sound at all appropriate. It sounds completely
wrong to me. So it'll be interesting to see what
the results of inquiries into this as because that's not
the kind of expectations that I would have for where
that money should be go. And it's meant to be
going to for wrap around sermon services for Farno and
(13:08):
what what.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
What sectors of the community is that funding supposed to
go to?
Speaker 4 (13:15):
I mean, this is this is meant to be directed
at Farno who have got who are struggling for many reasons,
for struggling to access healthcare for example, who might have
really complex needs where they need to help with navigation
through a lot of government services. And you know, I've
dealt with some of those commissioning agencies before in general practice,
(13:37):
and some of the services that they provided have been
really fantastic for patients and really changed lives. So it's
actually really gutting to me to see that there may
have been some issues of money somewhere if that's what
turns out to has happened.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Is it supposed to be for for Maori communities.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
Only, Well, I certainly I think that that's the direction
that it's meant to have taken. But PACIFICA groups and
others who been struggling have also been helped from my experience,
so it's not. Although it is mainly a targeted service,
(14:17):
it's not been exclusively so.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
All right, Megan was the first. Well, this money started
going through, this final order, money started going through from
the outset when Wanna Pacific it was established, which was
during your time as government. What did you know about it?
Why would your government have approved it?
Speaker 3 (14:34):
So it's not something that I that I know anything about.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Okay, but it did start during during your administration.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Look, I listened to the minister this morning to Tama
Portucka on Mike Costking, and I actually think he's doing
the right thing. I think that he's asked for some
he's asking the right questions and he's asked for those
answers today and he's saying that he wants to he
wants to understand what the thinking is behind it, what
the purpose of an exactly what is going on. And
I think he's asking the right questions in the right
(15:03):
time timeframe and we'll be able to make those deceasion
when he gets that information.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Okay, you guys copped up though, letting start in the
first place.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
I don't know and I don't know enough information.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
I'm asking for the report and saying yeah, well done
to the minister for asking a report. What are you
guys going to do to look into it to work
out where, where or how culpable you guys are.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Well, we don't have the ability to go and ask agency,
not because we're not the government.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
I can ask for anything I want the IA. Why
can't you.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
Well, Actually, journalists usually get things a whole lot quicker
than the twenty one days that I can tell you
that a member of the opposition. Journalists often get things
back the same day.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
I suspect you guys going I think, Lordie, think lord
that's the nets have to front this one for us.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
No, not at all, John, And I think that one
of the things is that information it would be useful
if that was shared. If there has been, if there
has been an inappropriate use of the money, then there
is something, yes, that has to be help and we
need to make sure.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
It's not happen again.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
When the Pacific has been around for four years, the
first three years of its existence, the money came from
far New Order. That time coincided the start of the team,
coincided with your administration.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
And I'm not disputing that, John. What I'm saying is
I think it's important that we look at the information.
It would be good if we also got to look
at the information that the minister gets. You asked, what
are we doing in terms of getting the information? What
I'm saying to you is, apart from THEAA with a
twenty one day turnaround and then probably an extension by
the other ten or twenty one days, we don't have
(16:32):
access to that information. So I do think the Minister
on this occasion is doing the right thing asking for
their information quickly and we'll be able to deal with
it once he gets it.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Vanessa Wennix. So the doctors I gather are unhappy with
the government's new virtual GP service. What's as a former
GP yourself, what's your position?
Speaker 4 (16:53):
I think what people are concerned about in general practice
is that there's a loss of something called continuity of care,
where the more you see the same person, the better
the quality of care improves because you build up a
really good knowledge and relationship with a person. And that's
what general practice is really about. This tallyhealth services are episodic. Here,
(17:17):
you won't get the same person every time, and it's
unlikely that you'll sort of be able to develop that
much better quality of care, and there's plenty of research
that shows that I think gps are upset that that
may not well be understood by the general public, and
I think that it probably reflects a feeling of concern
(17:41):
about the sustainability of general practice long term.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
So is it patch protection, No, it's not patch protection.
Speaker 4 (17:48):
It's about patients and what's best for them, and about
expressing the fact that building a good relationship with a
team and a general practice and a face to face
setting is really important for people's health long term. It
makes a difference. There's been research that shows that reduces
people's likelihood of dying and extends life. So look, I
(18:12):
agree with them in that case that continuity of care
is important. And I also understand that remote communities that
can't be serviced very easily could benefit from Tallyhealth and
Tellyhealth is a really good adjunct and compliment. What I
would really stress to people is that it's not a
replacement for a relationship with a general practice setting.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Will it be a solution, for example, to the fact
that we had the after our surgery in christ Church
closed twice this week because it was overwhelmed by patients.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
Well, I don't think it will be Frankly, the twenty
four of our surgery has been having has run a
pilot with their own Kelly Health Service for a while
as well. It hasn't made any difference. I think that
Telly Health Services, if they're not careful, can actually contribute
to increase aren't on in person services because people are
(19:10):
advised sometimes that they need to be examined and that's
just a very cautious thing to do.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
How aware of that is the government so well?
Speaker 4 (19:20):
The Government's been made aware of all of these issues.
This is a solution to try and help as much
as possible. Whether it does or not will be really
interesting to see. I think it's a good step forward
to give more options and more choices. Do you have
doubts one of a whole list of things that we're
going to support general practice and patients.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Do you have doubts?
Speaker 4 (19:45):
I'm very cautiously optimistic that it will help. And I
understand my colleagues worries and concerns and.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
What is the government going to do in terms of
the issue with after our clinics in twenty four twenty
four seven.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
Surgeries, So we've already got a plan to extend more
services around the country, not.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
In Canterbury though, or not in the South Island, or
not in Canterbury.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
Not in Canterbury, I mean we already have a twenty
four hour surgery plus another couple of other extended our surgery.
I would also hope that with new funding arrangements people
other clinics might consider also expending ours. That's something that
will be up to them in their business model if
(20:32):
it makes sense for them to do so.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
All right, Megan Woods would be would you'll probably be
doing the same thing if you were in government.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
Well, I think one of the issues we have here.
I agree with everything Vanessa said about the continuity of KIA.
Tallyhealth has a role that it can't replace that continuity
of KIA. Unfortunately, what these leaked documents show is actually
that's not what her government's policy is showing. If you
follow the funding, what we're seeing is that Tallyhealth getting
(20:58):
between fifty five to sixty five dollars per consultation for
casual patients, but GPS getting fifteen for adults and thirty
for children. So what we're seeing is quite a destructure
and the funding there in the policy direction that Vanessa's
government are the party's government is going and.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
So we've got to move on. But Vanessa, can I
just test that? Do you think? Can I just test that?
You talked about business models and practices and things. What
risk is there of GPS thinking actually we could do
a bit of running a telehealth service and people finding
actually gets more difficult to see their GPS face to face.
Speaker 4 (21:36):
Most GP clinics these days, and since COVID have had
telehealth consultations as an option for their patients. It's an
ongoing thing that has not changed. What I would say
is that medon's being a little bit not quite clear.
GPS practices get bulk funding and capitation, whereas episodic here
(22:00):
is a fee for service system, so they get subsidized,
but it's it's not a comparable system to say that
they only get fifteen dollars to patients.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
All right, we're going to wind it up. But I'm
going to wind it up, make it would
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Thinking For more from Category Mornings with John McDonald, Listen
live to news Talks It'd be christ Church from nine
am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Canterbury Morning's Podcast with John McDonald
from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
We welcome the politicians, Megan Woods, welcome. Oh, hold on,
what's happening there? They are? Microphone has not not doesn't
seem to be working. I'll try that one. How's that one?
Speaker 3 (00:23):
How's that?
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Morning?
Speaker 1 (00:25):
John Morning? Ry that again?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
And nationals Venicea Winnings on the phone. Gillow Vanessa Morning,
John Morning, Meghan? Are you ever under the weather?
Speaker 4 (00:34):
I suspected clovers. My coffee tasted like crap this morning,
and it's not fear.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
It definitely goes into not Fear column. The coffee tasting
not good.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Can we just start by acknowledging the passing of Kemp Megan,
did the response that we saw in Parliament yesterday? Did
it kind of remind you that Parliament does actually have
a heart.
Speaker 4 (00:59):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Absolutely, and I think everybody feels it. We feel it
for obviously the caucus that has been affected in this
case to Party Marty. I've been a member of a
caucus when we've lost a sitting MP in Partticua Hodimere
and it is just devastating. But I think it is
a time when politicians kind of hit the pause button
(01:22):
and take stock, because ultimately everybody goes there to serve.
And I think what we saw, you say was Parliament
and its best acknowledging that while we don't always agree
with each other, that Takatai went there as a champion
of her people, a champion of her community, and went
there to make a difference and to serve. And it
was wonderful to see that's very movingly acknowledged yesterday.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Yeah, Vanessa, I saw on the newslast night it was
a little bit of you and you obviously removed by it.
As a first term MP. Were you surprised at the
way Parliament responded?
Speaker 4 (01:58):
Well, actually no, because unfortunately this is the second time
it's happened in our turn.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
True.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
Yes, so no, it wasn't a surprise, And for me
the acknowledgments were very moving, and you know, I just
seen it the day before and been in the lift
with her, complimented on her on her purple scent. All
of the tributes around the Parliament were really beautifully said.
(02:29):
And also I always think of the people that are
most affected of her family, for her colleague, her friends,
and her constituents, and you know, the level of impact
that it has on other people affects me as much
as my own sort of shock. I guess yeah. It
is one of those things that I think is really likely,
(02:54):
even said, an example of how we all have a
lot in common underneath the surface things that divide us.
We are all there to serve. We all do come here,
go to Parliament with the boost of inteaching and I
always always deep to respeech my college of all sides
for that, and it's a loss for us all.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Can we talk about now the more mundane stuff that
politics is associated with, and the Inland Revenue putting out
it's the three yearly sort of looked to the future
and saying today I'll start with you me saying today
that it's inevitable that because of the aging population, we're
going to have to pay more tax and it's saying
suggested upp in income tax rates and paying more GST.
(03:40):
What's your response to that?
Speaker 3 (03:42):
And look, this isn't the first time that Inland Revenue
or Treasury even have sounded a warning about the looming
costs of superannuation. We've got an aging population in obviously
that cost money. It's one of the reasons why we
restarted the contributions to the superfund when we came into
government because we can't expecting to be taking it every
(04:02):
year out of that year's tax take. You've got to
put something away to prepare for it. But look, the
role of in their own revenue is to do tax
policy for the government. It's also the role of political
parties to come up with their own text policy. It's
exactly why Labor is going through a process thinking about revenue.
Of course, what we've seen from in lend revenue is
(04:23):
talking about GST and income tax. But labour's being very
open that we're going through a process thinking about getting
revenue from things other than people's uh wait, you know
wage pack it and that they're they're weekly or fortnightly pay.
That we start to think about how it is that
we tax other other other things in this country.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
So as Labor saying thanks but no thanks to IOD
in terms of p A y E and.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
GST, No, we've been very open John that we're saying
that we can't continue to only tax people's wages, that
we've got to have a lock at other things in
other ways of generating revenue. And we've been very open
about that and are going through a process with that.
Of course, advice on GS T and p A Y
is the bread and butter, and then lend revenue and
(05:09):
that's the kind of stuff that all governments consult with
in lean revenue on.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
Right, what was the answer to the question, though, You've
talked about labor, So what's your response? You saying none
on a think more creatively than just targeting Poye and
gust Absolutely right, Okay, Vanessa. Is the government going to
listen to this or just put it in the tray
and then pass along eventually to the next administration.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
Well, we've been really clear we're not going to introduce
any new taxes in this term or anything like that.
What we're focused on is growing the economy so that
we've got more of the private news for the things
that we need. I think that's the thing. Is cutting
government spending, checking where we can get better bang for
our buck. Making sure that we've been effective fiscal managers
(05:54):
is really important. We don't need to just keep plundering
Kiwi's pockets. We need to actually grow the income for
this country and that's the most important thing that we
need to do so that we can do all of
the things that, hey, we deserve.
Speaker 2 (06:07):
Do you think the government could ever bring itself to
admit that the tax cuts last year were in steak.
Speaker 4 (06:13):
No. I don't think we're going to admit that because
there's more money in Key's pockets and they are better
off spending their money themselves.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Well, actually they're not.
Speaker 4 (06:21):
Contribute to our economic recovery.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Well, they're not, they're not. There's a there's an accounting
in business advisory firm which has come out in recent
recent weeks saying we're actually five percent we're paying five
percent more tax. It's not necessarily through government tax, but
it's factoring in council rates and things. So to say
that we're paying we're paying less, will be better off
is not quite right.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
Well, I think that what the government is doing is
improved in the economy so that the situation is much
better than it was and would have spent.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
All governments want to grow the economy, All governments want
to grow the tax take. But I think what has
to be listened to is those warnings from Inland Revenue
and from Treasury around how it is we're going to
fund superannuation into the future, how it is that we
can make sure that we protect supernuation and that all
New Zealanders can rightly work their working lives knowing that
(07:14):
there is going to be enough money to pay them
their pension at the end of it. We can't just
say we're going to cut our way to this or
grow the economy because that happens. We're going to have
to do some more thinking. And this government is bearing
its right.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
So is it the difference taxation under labor and national
fingers trust hoping for economic growth?
Speaker 4 (07:34):
No, we're not just hoping. We're putting out policies and
working really hard to go our.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Economy the showpiece in the show piece our.
Speaker 4 (07:43):
Trade we've got. We've got incredibly hard, hard working ministers
who us doing that all the time.
Speaker 3 (07:51):
Sorry about I thought you'd finished.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
You need to respect someone would come OVID. You need
to be very respectful of Vanessa.
Speaker 3 (07:56):
I thought she'd finished you, I thought she'd finished. But look,
I was going to point out. The show piece of
growth in this year's budget was one percent growth over
twenty years. That's the growth that is being projected from
the policies that this government is brought in. That is
not going to pack up the tab for superannuation.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
Have you done the COVID test, Vanessa? Or you just
suspect that's what we've got.
Speaker 4 (08:18):
No, I just suspect I haven't. My last test out
of date by about six months. Suspicious.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
All right, let's talk about the Middle East. Who do
you believe in it? Who do you don't? Vanessa? Do
you believe? Do you believe Donald Trump when he says
that he has or the States has obliterated Iran's nuclear program?
How much of it are you swallowing?
Speaker 4 (08:43):
I think the approach that the Prime Minister and the
Minister of Foreign Affairs has been taking a really cautious
and appropriate. I think we should all wait and see
as more information comes to life.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Who do you believe? Come on, come on, I mean, I'm.
Speaker 4 (08:59):
Not going to be drawn on that. I don't think
it really contributes anything to it. Other doesn't just say Look.
I think we should all watch and wait, will find
out more, and I think we should be cautious to
jump to conclusions.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
All right. Should we read anything into the F bomb
that Trump, you know, fired off the other.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
Day, I mean he could. He must be extremely frustrated
with what's going on. He was hoping I think to
be the man swooping in and saving the day, and
so to have some kind of stuff it up straight
away must have been extremely frustrating. So I don't blame him.
I think he's probably absolutely right about his assessment of them.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Frankly, Megan, who do you believe him? Come on, I
want to on a real answer from you.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
Okay, So my real answer is I think New Zealand
needs to take a stronger position in condemning the attacks
and pointing out they're not consistent with international law. New
Zealand has a long and proud and courageous history of
independent foreign policy. We go into the world with our
values and our beliefs. As New Zealand is, and New
(10:05):
Zealand is not doing at the moment, the government needs
to take a stronger position. We've done it before, Helen
Clark did it in condemning the illegal invasion of Iraq,
and I would like to see New Zealand live up
to that very proud legacy. So for me, it's not
do you believe them, don't believe it? These were not
consistent with international law and New Zealand should use its
(10:26):
voice in the international stage to voice that opinion.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
What if it turns out, though that it's been a
very successful intervention.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
They're not consistent with international law, and I think as
a small country at the bottom of the South Pacific,
our independent foreign policy is a very important place for
us to stand. It has been since the nineteen forties.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
You could say, though, couldn't you, that you can hide
behind international law. But international law hasn't necessarily prevented conflicts happening.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
No, but a rules base is the basis of New
Zealand's security. If we throw out the window a will
a rules based world order in the way in which
international relations are organized in New Zealand is in a
very precarious position. We do not have a very large
army or navy or air force that can defend us.
(11:15):
One of the things that most is most important for
our security is that we do have a rules based
world order, and we should stand up for that and
use our voice on every occasion.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
All of Vanessa. What's the government waiting to find out
or learn before it would consider taking a stance that
the Vegan talks about.
Speaker 4 (11:34):
Well, I'm not involved in any of those discussions. Obviously,
don't matters really for the Prime Minister and the minister, Well, what.
Speaker 2 (11:41):
Would what would you want to find out or no
before you took a position.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
I mean, this is not an area of expertise at
all for me, And this is the kind of thing
where I think wise aheads and time will but.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
With respect but with respect to with respect to Megan,
it's probably it's probably not there of expertise of hers either,
and she's agreeing with that.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
Meghan's been a cabinet minister, probably had exposure to more
of these kind of discussions than I have, and been
in politics for longer than me. So look, I this
is not an area of expertise and it's really for
the Prime Minister and the Minister of Foreign Affairs all right.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Which seems to me sounds to me like the longer
you're in politics, the biddy you are, or more willing
you are to shoot. Shoot from that, it's ten twenty three.
What about that money going to Mowana PACIFICA Right, that's
up next, Vanessa. How appropriate is it that Fino order
money went into the Moana pacifica professional rugby team.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
Look, it doesn't sound at all appropriate. It sounds completely
wrong to me. So it'll be interesting to see what
the results of inquiries into this as because that's not
the kind of expectations that I would have for where
that money should be go. And it's meant to be
going to for wrap around sermon services for Farno and
(13:08):
what what.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
What sectors of the community is that funding supposed to
go to?
Speaker 4 (13:15):
I mean, this is this is meant to be directed
at Farno who have got who are struggling for many reasons,
for struggling to access healthcare for example, who might have
really complex needs where they need to help with navigation
through a lot of government services. And you know, I've
dealt with some of those commissioning agencies before in general practice,
(13:37):
and some of the services that they provided have been
really fantastic for patients and really changed lives. So it's
actually really gutting to me to see that there may
have been some issues of money somewhere if that's what
turns out to has happened.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Is it supposed to be for for Maori communities.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
Only, Well, I certainly I think that that's the direction
that it's meant to have taken. But PACIFICA groups and
others who been struggling have also been helped from my experience,
so it's not. Although it is mainly a targeted service,
(14:17):
it's not been exclusively so.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
All right, Megan was the first. Well, this money started
going through, this final order, money started going through from
the outset when Wanna Pacific it was established, which was
during your time as government. What did you know about it?
Why would your government have approved it?
Speaker 3 (14:34):
So it's not something that I that I know anything about.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Okay, but it did start during during your administration.
Speaker 3 (14:41):
Look, I listened to the minister this morning to Tama
Portucka on Mike Costking, and I actually think he's doing
the right thing. I think that he's asked for some
he's asking the right questions and he's asked for those
answers today and he's saying that he wants to he
wants to understand what the thinking is behind it, what
the purpose of an exactly what is going on. And
I think he's asking the right questions in the right
(15:03):
time timeframe and we'll be able to make those deceasion
when he gets that information.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
Okay, you guys copped up though, letting start in the
first place.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
I don't know and I don't know enough information.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
I'm asking for the report and saying yeah, well done
to the minister for asking a report. What are you
guys going to do to look into it to work
out where, where or how culpable you guys are.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
Well, we don't have the ability to go and ask agency,
not because we're not the government.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
I can ask for anything I want the IA. Why
can't you.
Speaker 3 (15:30):
Well, Actually, journalists usually get things a whole lot quicker
than the twenty one days that I can tell you
that a member of the opposition. Journalists often get things
back the same day.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
I suspect you guys going I think, Lordie, think lord
that's the nets have to front this one for us.
Speaker 3 (15:45):
No, not at all, John, And I think that one
of the things is that information it would be useful
if that was shared. If there has been, if there
has been an inappropriate use of the money, then there
is something, yes, that has to be help and we
need to make sure.
Speaker 1 (15:59):
It's not happen again.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
When the Pacific has been around for four years, the
first three years of its existence, the money came from
far New Order. That time coincided the start of the team,
coincided with your administration.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
And I'm not disputing that, John. What I'm saying is
I think it's important that we look at the information.
It would be good if we also got to look
at the information that the minister gets. You asked, what
are we doing in terms of getting the information? What
I'm saying to you is, apart from THEAA with a
twenty one day turnaround and then probably an extension by
the other ten or twenty one days, we don't have
(16:32):
access to that information. So I do think the Minister
on this occasion is doing the right thing asking for
their information quickly and we'll be able to deal with
it once he gets it.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
Vanessa Wennix. So the doctors I gather are unhappy with
the government's new virtual GP service. What's as a former
GP yourself, what's your position?
Speaker 4 (16:53):
I think what people are concerned about in general practice
is that there's a loss of something called continuity of care,
where the more you see the same person, the better
the quality of care improves because you build up a
really good knowledge and relationship with a person. And that's
what general practice is really about. This tallyhealth services are episodic. Here,
(17:17):
you won't get the same person every time, and it's
unlikely that you'll sort of be able to develop that
much better quality of care, and there's plenty of research
that shows that I think gps are upset that that
may not well be understood by the general public, and
I think that it probably reflects a feeling of concern
(17:41):
about the sustainability of general practice long term.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
So is it patch protection, No, it's not patch protection.
Speaker 4 (17:48):
It's about patients and what's best for them, and about
expressing the fact that building a good relationship with a
team and a general practice and a face to face
setting is really important for people's health long term. It
makes a difference. There's been research that shows that reduces
people's likelihood of dying and extends life. So look, I
(18:12):
agree with them in that case that continuity of care
is important. And I also understand that remote communities that
can't be serviced very easily could benefit from Tallyhealth and
Tellyhealth is a really good adjunct and compliment. What I
would really stress to people is that it's not a
replacement for a relationship with a general practice setting.
Speaker 2 (18:36):
Will it be a solution, for example, to the fact
that we had the after our surgery in christ Church
closed twice this week because it was overwhelmed by patients.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
Well, I don't think it will be Frankly, the twenty
four of our surgery has been having has run a
pilot with their own Kelly Health Service for a while
as well. It hasn't made any difference. I think that
Telly Health Services, if they're not careful, can actually contribute
to increase aren't on in person services because people are
(19:10):
advised sometimes that they need to be examined and that's
just a very cautious thing to do.
Speaker 2 (19:17):
How aware of that is the government so well?
Speaker 4 (19:20):
The Government's been made aware of all of these issues.
This is a solution to try and help as much
as possible. Whether it does or not will be really
interesting to see. I think it's a good step forward
to give more options and more choices. Do you have
doubts one of a whole list of things that we're
going to support general practice and patients.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Do you have doubts?
Speaker 4 (19:45):
I'm very cautiously optimistic that it will help. And I
understand my colleagues worries and concerns and.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
What is the government going to do in terms of
the issue with after our clinics in twenty four twenty
four seven.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
Surgeries, So we've already got a plan to extend more
services around the country, not.
Speaker 2 (20:07):
In Canterbury though, or not in the South Island, or
not in Canterbury.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
Not in Canterbury, I mean we already have a twenty
four hour surgery plus another couple of other extended our surgery.
I would also hope that with new funding arrangements people
other clinics might consider also expending ours. That's something that
will be up to them in their business model if
(20:32):
it makes sense for them to do so.
Speaker 2 (20:33):
All right, Megan Woods would be would you'll probably be
doing the same thing if you were in government.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
Well, I think one of the issues we have here.
I agree with everything Vanessa said about the continuity of KIA.
Tallyhealth has a role that it can't replace that continuity
of KIA. Unfortunately, what these leaked documents show is actually
that's not what her government's policy is showing. If you
follow the funding, what we're seeing is that Tallyhealth getting
(20:58):
between fifty five to sixty five dollars per consultation for
casual patients, but GPS getting fifteen for adults and thirty
for children. So what we're seeing is quite a destructure
and the funding there in the policy direction that Vanessa's
government are the party's government is going and.
Speaker 2 (21:19):
So we've got to move on. But Vanessa, can I
just test that? Do you think? Can I just test that?
You talked about business models and practices and things. What
risk is there of GPS thinking actually we could do
a bit of running a telehealth service and people finding
actually gets more difficult to see their GPS face to face.
Speaker 4 (21:36):
Most GP clinics these days, and since COVID have had
telehealth consultations as an option for their patients. It's an
ongoing thing that has not changed. What I would say
is that medon's being a little bit not quite clear.
GPS practices get bulk funding and capitation, whereas episodic here
(22:00):
is a fee for service system, so they get subsidized,
but it's it's not a comparable system to say that
they only get fifteen dollars to patients.
Speaker 2 (22:11):
All right, we're going to wind it up. But I'm
going to wind it up, make it would
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Thinking For more from Category Mornings with John McDonald, Listen
live to news Talks It'd be christ Church from nine
am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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