Today on Politics Friday, National MP and former doctor Vanessa Weenink, and Labour's Tracey Lee McLellan join John MacDonald to delve into the biggest topics of the week.
They discuss the Government response to yesterday's wind storm, the mega-strike, the end of home economics and outdoor education in schools, political involvement in the Netball NZ debacle, and Labour's future funding policy.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald
from News Talk ZB.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
And it's nice tap with us, by the way, this
time on Friday. That is Politics Friday Time Nationals, Vanessa
Winning and Labor's Tracey McClelland morning you guys must be
thankful to be in christ Church. My little dodging the traveling.
Oh you came back wednesday night, the last flight brilliant.
You came back last night.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
It was interesting taking off from Wellington, but it was
it was fine.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Now can you answer a query. We've got what happened
to the text alerts the civil defense that much celebrated
civil defense text alerts when the state of emergency was
announced on by Mark Mitchell on Wednesday.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Yeah, well I just asked the minister about that and
he said that everybody was scrambling around and the cell
phone towers had been out because of the power outage,
and the battery had run out of juice as well,
so they were out of them were out. So they're
not entirely sure exactly how it's happened. But that's the
(01:14):
update on that.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
But let's just I'm not having a going here, but
just just think that's true. The power was on in
christ Church, yes, so the cell towers would be working.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Yes, here they would be.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Yeah, but we didn't get the text to it.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Yeah. I'm not entirely sure why that is, but it
may be something to do with the network effect.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
I'm not sure, all right. Do There's been some criticism
of christ Church being included, Tracy, what's your position on that.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
Yeah, it's a tough one. I think you have to
err on the side of caution. Certainly, the maps that
I was looking at, the weather maps you right up
until yesterday afternoon were including christ Church, So I think
it could have easily easily, you know, affected christ Church.
As it happens, we were pretty lucky and we missed
the main parts of it. But there was trees down
(02:01):
in Hallswall and I heard someone on your show talking
about it being pretty horrendous out Parklands kind of way. So,
you know, wind is the weather is so unpredictable, and
I think we do have to be cautious because, as
someone said, it only takes a branch for tree and
a poor you know, a poor, unfortunate man was killed,
(02:23):
which was tragic in Wellington.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Do you think Vanessa though that the declaring an emergency
is enough when and Mark Mitchell told us about this
on the show yesterday that you then had people in
christ Church lighting fires in their backyards on Wednesday night
when we were already in the state of emergency.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Yeah, I mean, it's pretty hard to account for people
who are stupid and do things that are outside of
what normal rational people would do. But you know, the
response was really great. We had excellent on the ground
work with all of the CDM people, with the police
and firefighters. They went out and did an incredible job
(03:00):
down on the ground. Giving them the powers to do
what they need to do and to prepare people is
what a state of emergency see is about. And I
think it's absolutely the right thing to do because we've
got to put people's lives first.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
You don't think, Tracy and Vanessa's start with you, Tracy,
that some measures similar to a lockdown un needed in
these in these situations.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
No, I don't think so. I think people should be
able to take those warnings. Seriously. It was the fire
risk that I was keeping my eye on. That was
the one because it was so warm as well, and
I just thought, oh gosh, I hope no one's going
to be stupid and play around with fireworks or open
fires when you know there's an absolute band on it.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Yeah, lockdown's Vanessa, No, I don't think that's a good idea.
It's we've got to rely on people's ability. Even if
a lockdown is only a warning as well, you know,
nobody's actually physically locked in their houses. People have still
got to respond to that behape, you know. So it's
it's when the warnings are saying, don't like flyers, a
(03:58):
total fireband we should expect that people follow.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
That all right. On the same day as as the
wild weather we had, the had the mega strike. And Vanessa,
you are a former GP, that's well known. How do
you feel when you see your former medical colleagues, for example,
protesting against the government which you are now a member of.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Well, first of all, I think that the strikes have
been a bit politically motivated, and we are really concerned
for the patients and the families and everyone.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Who's aside aside from aside from the key.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
We want and we want to get back to negotiations.
As a GP. Gps are business owners and they cannot
strike and that their conditions that GPS work under far,
far inferior to those of other specialists and hospitals, and
I think most gps like me, have found it really
(04:56):
frustrating that they couldn't get their patients in to get
services through the secondary year, so writing letters to people
having them declined all the time because the s versus
couldn't get people in or would the waiting lists for
too long. That was one of the worst parts of
being a GP. So for extending the waiting times and
(05:16):
making it harder for patients, I think most gps would
be pretty annoyed with their colleagues.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Actually, what do you I'll pick up on that. But
what are you saying when you say that gps have
it tougher than other doctors.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
They work in different circumstances, so as business owners they
or most of them or contractors, they don't have the
same employment relationship.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
No, no, no, but let's take out the business ownership part
of it. Are you saying that doctors working in hospitals
need to wake up and get real and realize that actually,
gps they've got a tougher job than they have. Yes,
and why.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Because everybody that walks into general practice could have anything
that's happening. If you're a specialist in the hospital, you've
got a fair idea of what's coming in, apart from
the emergency department who workshifts. Anyway, the gps have got
a huge burden of responsibility. They carry the weight of
that and if there's any complications or of things like that,
(06:14):
gps are much more likely to be complained about. There
is a huge burden of responsibilities in general practice and
it is by far and the hardest specialty. And if
anybody is a specialist in the hospital who's been around
long enough, they would agree.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Do you think they would do that openly?
Speaker 3 (06:34):
They would probably usually.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Do you think that you're saying the hospital doctors need
to wake up?
Speaker 3 (06:40):
I'm saying that the hospital doctors have a very good
They have a very good employment arrangement extra some of
the highest paid people in New Zealand. They have extremely
good leave and continuing medical education and sabbatical conditions. They
are very well paid and the time that they work
(07:03):
is not necessarily linked to the actual pay that they get,
so they have extremely good conditions.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
So you support the Health Minister's serve that he gave
doctors the other week.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Tracy it's interesting when you have these disputes and you
hear all sorts of things said. And there was something
yesterday which I thought, well, that's kind of taken it
a little bit too far. Someone on one of the
packet lines where the pickets did go ahead was quoting
in fact, it was a piece of audio and they
were saying things are really bad, really bad. People are
struggling so much that they take someone to the doctor
(07:41):
and they have to sit outside waiting in the car
because they can't afford the petrol to go home and
come back again. And when when you hear that, that's
really stretching it, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (07:49):
Yeah, I don't know what those individual stories are. No
one would.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
And then you've got an They had someone else, for example,
in the news today quoted from a picket line yesterday saying, oh,
well that a doctor collapsed after working for six hours
in surgery without taking a break. I mean that could
have been caused by anything.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
Well, I think that's not the point, though, was it.
The point is that we've got health workers out there
fighting for fear pay and fair conditions and safe staffing,
and that's probably the main point to say. It's political
I think is just a cop out. Well, remember that
these are.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Old on why would you go to a meet and
enough commentators have banned on about the aspect of it,
but you know, you can't ignore it. The fact that
Palestine was was on the list of things to talk
about when well, my meeting with the ministine.
Speaker 4 (08:40):
My understanding was at negotiations the employer asked for a
list of other concerns that weren't well where relevant, and
that was one thing that was brought to the table.
I think an absolute mounted out of a molehill has
been made about honestly.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Honestly or you would think though, you would think that
if they were really going to take their chance, they
put pay equity ahead of Palestine. I mean, that's just nonsense,
isn't it.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
Who said they haven't? Of course they have.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Other things to talk about when talk about pay equity
and you're ripping women off instead they take a big,
big stance on Palestine.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
They didn't take a big stance. That's saggeration, the credibility exaggeration. Well,
you're and you're only taking the minister's word in terms
of how that how that played out, the point is
that health.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Workers PPT a consumed the PPTA confumed was on the list.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
Yep, that's fine. But our teachers and our nurses, and
our doctors and our health workers and our educators are
fighting for fear pay and safe staffing. I've taken nurses
out and strike when it was a labor government, and
you know they don't do so lightly. And things are
getting worse and worse under this government. And it's I
absolutely support workers, absolutely support workers right to strike and
(09:51):
the fact that if they don't get out there and
make a big deal about it, then who will Because
ultimately they're looking for patient safety, they're looking to do
their job well.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Right, got them move on quickly. You think the public
is on the side of the strikers.
Speaker 4 (10:05):
Yes, I do, probably not, probably not. Well, all indications
are that they are, and we've got no reason to
believe that.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
But if you take a survey from your internal polists to.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Pick this up on you picked this up on the
Cory lines, you'd run a Tracy here's to challenge. Let's
see if you can get the team Player of the
Week award team players for doing a brilliant cell job
of Labour's new future fund.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
Well, it's a fantastic new sovereign wealth fund so that
we can invest in fantastic New Zealanders.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Lordie, that's pretty well.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
Look, honestly, lots of times our innovators, our small businesses,
they can't grow because they can't access the capital.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
That example of the business that hasn't because I saw
Chriss Sipkins was at that announcement in Auckland and people
were on camera saying on it we're fine.
Speaker 4 (10:58):
But oh well, you can't name people because you know
that's not very fair. But there's there's been plenty of
people that we've met in the green tech and the
kind of of mostly in the tech industry where the
people that I've spoken to who fall you know, they
could go to America and get the big money, but
they don't need the big money. They want the medium
sized money. So it's about investing in New Zealanders. And
actually it's also about creating that sovereign wealth. We should
(11:21):
have done it a long time ago around the world.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Yet what happens in if they're going sell out to
an American outfit, you know, where's where's the sovereign wealth?
Speaker 4 (11:31):
Then well, there's two parts to that. The first part
is using our capital to reinvest back in Kiwis in
which case it's like any other investment strategy. And the
second part is making.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Sure it was more job creation than long Both.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
It's both and it's doing And like the Guardians of
the Kiwi Saver Fund, you would have those guardians invest
in New Zealand, and you know they don't have to
necessarily go for the biggest return. They've got the common good,
the social good in mind as well, so they can turn.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Around and.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
Business. No, it's going to be fantastic and I can't wait.
I think it's an excellent idea and it's about time
we invested in ourselves. We're a fantastic country. We don't
need to wait for foreigners to come in and save us.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
All Right, you're not getting Team with the Week team
Player of the Week. Well, I'm just not really, You're
not very confused.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
I was just thinking, what are the names are the
other funds that we have that do exactly the same thing.
So we have venture capital funds that we have a
similar kind of setup for that invests in businesses to
help them get to that sort of medium to expansion stage.
(12:48):
And I'm just I'm not sure that it's adding anything
particularly in you maybe it's the amounts, but then that
would need us to know the amounts of money that
they're talking about and what sort of businesses they are
looking at.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
But it's also how it's also how it's seeded. It's
how it's seeded. It's well, it's putting not just the money,
but ring fence those so oes that make money so
that the money that they the revenue that they generate
can be reinvested back in New Zealand and it protects them.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Still not still still not still not team player of
the front. Not the year, the week, you love it for,
the day your love it love It been a big
week for Mark Mitchell, not just a clearing you know,
a state of emergency in Canterbury, but also saying he
wants the stoush at Netball New Zealand sort it out. Tracy,
how comfortable are you with government ministers poking the noses
(13:40):
into things like this.
Speaker 4 (13:43):
Well, here's the he's the responsible minister and I think
the public would like to see the end of this stoush.
So I've got no I've got no beef with with
Mark Mitchell inserting himself if he thinks he can get
to the bottom of it.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
What about you? And I suppose you're not going to
tell Mark Mitchell off, are you? No, I'm not if
he did.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
I think if I did, it would be an interesting conversation.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
But it might be another stat But I wouldn't want.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
To take him on. But he's you know, he said
that he wants to see the end of it, and
I'm sure lots of key weies do as well. And
netball is a great sport and we just want to
be able to concentrate on that rather than this employment
issue in the background.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Did either of you play netball?
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Yeah, I was had forced to at school. I was
and terrible.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Well will you wing wing a guess?
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Sorry?
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Yeah, you're gold defense. I wasn't wing attack right, Tracy?
Speaker 4 (14:37):
Yes, yes, I played?
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Yeah, goal attack, goal attack. So you could actually take
take on each other.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
Yeah, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be very much good
against Tracy. She's a bit taller than me, I think,
so goldence against her would be a bit tough.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Don't talk high up as it's not eventhing. It's cracked
up to me.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
As long as the bullden at the ground because I
have a bit of trouble getting back.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
I think now I'm guessing that you both did homie
at school.
Speaker 4 (15:09):
Yeah, we had to.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
It was a compulsory part of it. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
It seems weird, isn't it? That it's I.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
Still remember the first pizza I made.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
What was it?
Speaker 4 (15:18):
It's gone base. That's the secret to a good pizzas.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
With pineapple and spaghetti sc one base pineapple.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
All right, Bill Endus should be running. They'd be run
up this street day.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Well, I think he was a great, great person and
great choices.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
I think it was a great person backtracking and pizza
topping minister for pizza topic but home MEI, I mean
the minister and the government saying, oh I'm not getting
rid of it. It's going to be part of a
broader program. But you're basic homie. I would have thought
that you wouldn't tinkle with that, and I would have
thought you would make that compulsory for everybody.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
So that this is talking about high school level, and
so what we had was at at the younger level,
at intermediate. So when we're looking at the high school stuff,
that's going to be incorporated into other subjects. So it's
still going to be it's still going to be elements that.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Are taught you comfortable without trusting.
Speaker 4 (16:07):
Look, I think that it's a really important and valid
way into further study and into good employment. So no,
I think more importantly though, it's about the consultation process,
and it certainly seems to have engaged a lot of
people who think it's the wrong decision, so it's important
(16:28):
to hear them out.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Same with outdoor education being given the heave home at.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Fifty thousand people signed the partitionar.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Fifty thousand people, I mean, how can you defend any
change or watering down of that program beneath it? Well,
even you you're we're not banksponentially.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
We're not watering it down. We're we're actually making it
more strength. And so it's a standalone subject and it
is going to be a subject at year twelve and thirteen,
and it's going to be managed and supported. The curriculum
is going to be written by industry and partnering with them.
I think it's really exciting for outdoor education. We value
(17:02):
it and it's going to be an ongoing thing.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Yeah, but hold on, how can you you've got the
head one of these outdoor education organizations Fiona McDonald saying
that deserves it deserves better recognition, saying that it bridges
the academic and the practical for students, it builds resilience,
leadership and critical thinking, the very qualities employers and communities
so that we need more of. Why are they saying
(17:26):
that and you're claiming otherwise.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Well, I'm not sure why they think that it's not
important to have an industry lead vocational subject. I don't
see that that's undervaluing it. There's been some talk about
because it's not listed as an academic subject that somehow
that's not as important, and I think we need to
value the industry lead training as much as we do academic.
(17:49):
I think there's been an over emphasis on academia and
university Eden.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
But it's not going to be a standalone subject.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
It is it. Yes, I don't know why they're going
on about it because it is going to be a
standalone subject.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Vanessa, what's your tracy, what's your an understanding?
Speaker 4 (18:03):
I think a piece of the puzzles missing here and
I like the way that it straddles academic and practical
and for a lot of young people they learn better.
You know that academics improve because they're able to do
something that they are passionate about in love. So I
think it's a real missed opportunity not to give it
(18:25):
that status that it deserves.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
So I see the Minister of Education is saying that
any concerns are unfounded. The subject will remain available for
both senior students and juniors. It's going to be strengthened
and use one to ten curriculum, which means it will
be clear about the teaching and learning that students will
get from outdoor education as part of their schooling.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
Yeah, but that just goes to show there's a lot
of confusion, and I go back to my first point
that the consultation process and the Minister clearly hasn't brought
the industry or the sector along with this decision if
it's created that much confusion.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
So before we finish up, what do you see the
value of outdoor education being Vanessa?
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Well, I think it contributes a lot to what we
value in this country. There's a lot of outdoor activities,
there's a lot of tourism based things that are outdoor
adventure type things. This is in leadership and development of people.
There's so much that he wes enjoy about our outdoors be.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
A great compulsory subject, wouldn't it.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
I think, I mean, I think pe and younger times
is compulsory anyway, So you.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Think outlove education should be composed.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
I just think we shouldn't underestimate the amazing gift of
that mastery of physical activity, particularly nature based activity. It's
what's lacking in the world and anything we can do
to formalize that and to encourage it and to make
sure that every young person leaves with the resilience and
the strength that that gives them.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
In safety gold safety. Yeah, so you'd make it. You'd
like to see it compilsory. If I was king for
a day's all right, Well tell what you're king for
a day. Thank you. You didn't sell the future fun,
but I'm with.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
You on that.
Speaker 4 (20:06):
I reckon that you canture fun and outdoor.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
You could walk into the WAPs, get a biby going,
and get the tent up and then sell the future funds.
Nice to see you both.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
For more from Caterbory Mornings with John McDonald, listen live
to news talks at be Christ Church from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald
from News Talk ZB.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
And it's nice tap with us, by the way, this
time on Friday. That is Politics Friday Time Nationals, Vanessa
Winning and Labor's Tracey McClelland morning you guys must be
thankful to be in christ Church. My little dodging the traveling.
Oh you came back wednesday night, the last flight brilliant.
You came back last night.
Speaker 3 (00:32):
It was interesting taking off from Wellington, but it was
it was fine.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Now can you answer a query. We've got what happened
to the text alerts the civil defense that much celebrated
civil defense text alerts when the state of emergency was
announced on by Mark Mitchell on Wednesday.
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Yeah, well I just asked the minister about that and
he said that everybody was scrambling around and the cell
phone towers had been out because of the power outage,
and the battery had run out of juice as well,
so they were out of them were out. So they're
not entirely sure exactly how it's happened. But that's the
(01:14):
update on that.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
But let's just I'm not having a going here, but
just just think that's true. The power was on in
christ Church, yes, so the cell towers would be working.
Speaker 3 (01:25):
Yes, here they would be.
Speaker 2 (01:26):
Yeah, but we didn't get the text to it.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Yeah. I'm not entirely sure why that is, but it
may be something to do with the network effect.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
I'm not sure, all right. Do There's been some criticism
of christ Church being included, Tracy, what's your position on that.
Speaker 4 (01:40):
Yeah, it's a tough one. I think you have to
err on the side of caution. Certainly, the maps that
I was looking at, the weather maps you right up
until yesterday afternoon were including christ Church, So I think
it could have easily easily, you know, affected christ Church.
As it happens, we were pretty lucky and we missed
the main parts of it. But there was trees down
(02:01):
in Hallswall and I heard someone on your show talking
about it being pretty horrendous out Parklands kind of way. So,
you know, wind is the weather is so unpredictable, and
I think we do have to be cautious because, as
someone said, it only takes a branch for tree and
a poor you know, a poor, unfortunate man was killed,
(02:23):
which was tragic in Wellington.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
Do you think Vanessa though that the declaring an emergency
is enough when and Mark Mitchell told us about this
on the show yesterday that you then had people in
christ Church lighting fires in their backyards on Wednesday night
when we were already in the state of emergency.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Yeah, I mean, it's pretty hard to account for people
who are stupid and do things that are outside of
what normal rational people would do. But you know, the
response was really great. We had excellent on the ground
work with all of the CDM people, with the police
and firefighters. They went out and did an incredible job
(03:00):
down on the ground. Giving them the powers to do
what they need to do and to prepare people is
what a state of emergency see is about. And I
think it's absolutely the right thing to do because we've
got to put people's lives first.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
You don't think, Tracy and Vanessa's start with you, Tracy,
that some measures similar to a lockdown un needed in
these in these situations.
Speaker 4 (03:20):
No, I don't think so. I think people should be
able to take those warnings. Seriously. It was the fire
risk that I was keeping my eye on. That was
the one because it was so warm as well, and
I just thought, oh gosh, I hope no one's going
to be stupid and play around with fireworks or open
fires when you know there's an absolute band on it.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Yeah, lockdown's Vanessa, No, I don't think that's a good idea.
It's we've got to rely on people's ability. Even if
a lockdown is only a warning as well, you know,
nobody's actually physically locked in their houses. People have still
got to respond to that behape, you know. So it's
it's when the warnings are saying, don't like flyers, a
(03:58):
total fireband we should expect that people follow.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
That all right. On the same day as as the
wild weather we had, the had the mega strike. And Vanessa,
you are a former GP, that's well known. How do
you feel when you see your former medical colleagues, for example,
protesting against the government which you are now a member of.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Well, first of all, I think that the strikes have
been a bit politically motivated, and we are really concerned
for the patients and the families and everyone.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Who's aside aside from aside from the key.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
We want and we want to get back to negotiations.
As a GP. Gps are business owners and they cannot
strike and that their conditions that GPS work under far,
far inferior to those of other specialists and hospitals, and
I think most gps like me, have found it really
(04:56):
frustrating that they couldn't get their patients in to get
services through the secondary year, so writing letters to people
having them declined all the time because the s versus
couldn't get people in or would the waiting lists for
too long. That was one of the worst parts of
being a GP. So for extending the waiting times and
(05:16):
making it harder for patients, I think most gps would
be pretty annoyed with their colleagues.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Actually, what do you I'll pick up on that. But
what are you saying when you say that gps have
it tougher than other doctors.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
They work in different circumstances, so as business owners they
or most of them or contractors, they don't have the
same employment relationship.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
No, no, no, but let's take out the business ownership part
of it. Are you saying that doctors working in hospitals
need to wake up and get real and realize that actually,
gps they've got a tougher job than they have. Yes,
and why.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Because everybody that walks into general practice could have anything
that's happening. If you're a specialist in the hospital, you've
got a fair idea of what's coming in, apart from
the emergency department who workshifts. Anyway, the gps have got
a huge burden of responsibility. They carry the weight of
that and if there's any complications or of things like that,
(06:14):
gps are much more likely to be complained about. There
is a huge burden of responsibilities in general practice and
it is by far and the hardest specialty. And if
anybody is a specialist in the hospital who's been around
long enough, they would agree.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Do you think they would do that openly?
Speaker 3 (06:34):
They would probably usually.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Do you think that you're saying the hospital doctors need
to wake up?
Speaker 3 (06:40):
I'm saying that the hospital doctors have a very good
They have a very good employment arrangement extra some of
the highest paid people in New Zealand. They have extremely
good leave and continuing medical education and sabbatical conditions. They
are very well paid and the time that they work
(07:03):
is not necessarily linked to the actual pay that they get,
so they have extremely good conditions.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
So you support the Health Minister's serve that he gave
doctors the other week.
Speaker 3 (07:17):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
Tracy it's interesting when you have these disputes and you
hear all sorts of things said. And there was something
yesterday which I thought, well, that's kind of taken it
a little bit too far. Someone on one of the
packet lines where the pickets did go ahead was quoting
in fact, it was a piece of audio and they
were saying things are really bad, really bad. People are
struggling so much that they take someone to the doctor
(07:41):
and they have to sit outside waiting in the car
because they can't afford the petrol to go home and
come back again. And when when you hear that, that's
really stretching it, isn't it.
Speaker 4 (07:49):
Yeah, I don't know what those individual stories are. No
one would.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
And then you've got an They had someone else, for example,
in the news today quoted from a picket line yesterday saying, oh,
well that a doctor collapsed after working for six hours
in surgery without taking a break. I mean that could
have been caused by anything.
Speaker 4 (08:09):
Well, I think that's not the point, though, was it.
The point is that we've got health workers out there
fighting for fear pay and fair conditions and safe staffing,
and that's probably the main point to say. It's political
I think is just a cop out. Well, remember that
these are.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Old on why would you go to a meet and
enough commentators have banned on about the aspect of it,
but you know, you can't ignore it. The fact that
Palestine was was on the list of things to talk
about when well, my meeting with the ministine.
Speaker 4 (08:40):
My understanding was at negotiations the employer asked for a
list of other concerns that weren't well where relevant, and
that was one thing that was brought to the table.
I think an absolute mounted out of a molehill has
been made about honestly.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Honestly or you would think though, you would think that
if they were really going to take their chance, they
put pay equity ahead of Palestine. I mean, that's just nonsense,
isn't it.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
Who said they haven't? Of course they have.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Other things to talk about when talk about pay equity
and you're ripping women off instead they take a big,
big stance on Palestine.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
They didn't take a big stance. That's saggeration, the credibility exaggeration. Well,
you're and you're only taking the minister's word in terms
of how that how that played out, the point is
that health.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Workers PPT a consumed the PPTA confumed was on the list.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
Yep, that's fine. But our teachers and our nurses, and
our doctors and our health workers and our educators are
fighting for fear pay and safe staffing. I've taken nurses
out and strike when it was a labor government, and
you know they don't do so lightly. And things are
getting worse and worse under this government. And it's I
absolutely support workers, absolutely support workers right to strike and
(09:51):
the fact that if they don't get out there and
make a big deal about it, then who will Because
ultimately they're looking for patient safety, they're looking to do
their job well.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Right, got them move on quickly. You think the public
is on the side of the strikers.
Speaker 4 (10:05):
Yes, I do, probably not, probably not. Well, all indications
are that they are, and we've got no reason to
believe that.
Speaker 3 (10:12):
But if you take a survey from your internal polists to.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Pick this up on you picked this up on the
Cory lines, you'd run a Tracy here's to challenge. Let's
see if you can get the team Player of the
Week award team players for doing a brilliant cell job
of Labour's new future fund.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
Well, it's a fantastic new sovereign wealth fund so that
we can invest in fantastic New Zealanders.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Lordie, that's pretty well.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
Look, honestly, lots of times our innovators, our small businesses,
they can't grow because they can't access the capital.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
That example of the business that hasn't because I saw
Chriss Sipkins was at that announcement in Auckland and people
were on camera saying on it we're fine.
Speaker 4 (10:58):
But oh well, you can't name people because you know
that's not very fair. But there's there's been plenty of
people that we've met in the green tech and the
kind of of mostly in the tech industry where the
people that I've spoken to who fall you know, they
could go to America and get the big money, but
they don't need the big money. They want the medium
sized money. So it's about investing in New Zealanders. And
actually it's also about creating that sovereign wealth. We should
(11:21):
have done it a long time ago around the world.
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Yet what happens in if they're going sell out to
an American outfit, you know, where's where's the sovereign wealth?
Speaker 4 (11:31):
Then well, there's two parts to that. The first part
is using our capital to reinvest back in Kiwis in
which case it's like any other investment strategy. And the
second part is making.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Sure it was more job creation than long Both.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
It's both and it's doing And like the Guardians of
the Kiwi Saver Fund, you would have those guardians invest
in New Zealand, and you know they don't have to
necessarily go for the biggest return. They've got the common good,
the social good in mind as well, so they can turn.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Around and.
Speaker 4 (12:08):
Business. No, it's going to be fantastic and I can't wait.
I think it's an excellent idea and it's about time
we invested in ourselves. We're a fantastic country. We don't
need to wait for foreigners to come in and save us.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
All Right, you're not getting Team with the Week team
Player of the Week. Well, I'm just not really, You're
not very confused.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
I was just thinking, what are the names are the
other funds that we have that do exactly the same thing.
So we have venture capital funds that we have a
similar kind of setup for that invests in businesses to
help them get to that sort of medium to expansion stage.
(12:48):
And I'm just I'm not sure that it's adding anything
particularly in you maybe it's the amounts, but then that
would need us to know the amounts of money that
they're talking about and what sort of businesses they are
looking at.
Speaker 4 (12:59):
But it's also how it's also how it's seeded. It's
how it's seeded. It's well, it's putting not just the money,
but ring fence those so oes that make money so
that the money that they the revenue that they generate
can be reinvested back in New Zealand and it protects them.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
Still not still still not still not team player of
the front. Not the year, the week, you love it for,
the day your love it love It been a big
week for Mark Mitchell, not just a clearing you know,
a state of emergency in Canterbury, but also saying he
wants the stoush at Netball New Zealand sort it out. Tracy,
how comfortable are you with government ministers poking the noses
(13:40):
into things like this.
Speaker 4 (13:43):
Well, here's the he's the responsible minister and I think
the public would like to see the end of this stoush.
So I've got no I've got no beef with with
Mark Mitchell inserting himself if he thinks he can get
to the bottom of it.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
What about you? And I suppose you're not going to
tell Mark Mitchell off, are you? No, I'm not if
he did.
Speaker 3 (14:03):
I think if I did, it would be an interesting conversation.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
But it might be another stat But I wouldn't want.
Speaker 3 (14:09):
To take him on. But he's you know, he said
that he wants to see the end of it, and
I'm sure lots of key weies do as well. And
netball is a great sport and we just want to
be able to concentrate on that rather than this employment
issue in the background.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Did either of you play netball?
Speaker 1 (14:25):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (14:25):
Yeah, I was had forced to at school. I was
and terrible.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Well will you wing wing a guess?
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Sorry?
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Yeah, you're gold defense. I wasn't wing attack right, Tracy?
Speaker 4 (14:37):
Yes, yes, I played?
Speaker 2 (14:39):
Yeah, goal attack, goal attack. So you could actually take
take on each other.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
Yeah, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be very much good
against Tracy. She's a bit taller than me, I think,
so goldence against her would be a bit tough.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Don't talk high up as it's not eventhing. It's cracked
up to me.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
As long as the bullden at the ground because I
have a bit of trouble getting back.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
I think now I'm guessing that you both did homie
at school.
Speaker 4 (15:09):
Yeah, we had to.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
It was a compulsory part of it. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
It seems weird, isn't it? That it's I.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
Still remember the first pizza I made.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
What was it?
Speaker 4 (15:18):
It's gone base. That's the secret to a good pizzas.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
With pineapple and spaghetti sc one base pineapple.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
All right, Bill Endus should be running. They'd be run
up this street day.
Speaker 3 (15:29):
Well, I think he was a great, great person and
great choices.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
I think it was a great person backtracking and pizza
topping minister for pizza topic but home MEI, I mean
the minister and the government saying, oh I'm not getting
rid of it. It's going to be part of a
broader program. But you're basic homie. I would have thought
that you wouldn't tinkle with that, and I would have
thought you would make that compulsory for everybody.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
So that this is talking about high school level, and
so what we had was at at the younger level,
at intermediate. So when we're looking at the high school stuff,
that's going to be incorporated into other subjects. So it's
still going to be it's still going to be elements that.
Speaker 2 (16:06):
Are taught you comfortable without trusting.
Speaker 4 (16:07):
Look, I think that it's a really important and valid
way into further study and into good employment. So no,
I think more importantly though, it's about the consultation process,
and it certainly seems to have engaged a lot of
people who think it's the wrong decision, so it's important
(16:28):
to hear them out.
Speaker 2 (16:29):
Same with outdoor education being given the heave home at.
Speaker 4 (16:32):
Fifty thousand people signed the partitionar.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
Fifty thousand people, I mean, how can you defend any
change or watering down of that program beneath it? Well,
even you you're we're not banksponentially.
Speaker 3 (16:42):
We're not watering it down. We're we're actually making it
more strength. And so it's a standalone subject and it
is going to be a subject at year twelve and thirteen,
and it's going to be managed and supported. The curriculum
is going to be written by industry and partnering with them.
I think it's really exciting for outdoor education. We value
(17:02):
it and it's going to be an ongoing thing.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Yeah, but hold on, how can you you've got the
head one of these outdoor education organizations Fiona McDonald saying
that deserves it deserves better recognition, saying that it bridges
the academic and the practical for students, it builds resilience,
leadership and critical thinking, the very qualities employers and communities
so that we need more of. Why are they saying
(17:26):
that and you're claiming otherwise.
Speaker 3 (17:27):
Well, I'm not sure why they think that it's not
important to have an industry lead vocational subject. I don't
see that that's undervaluing it. There's been some talk about
because it's not listed as an academic subject that somehow
that's not as important, and I think we need to
value the industry lead training as much as we do academic.
(17:49):
I think there's been an over emphasis on academia and
university Eden.
Speaker 2 (17:53):
But it's not going to be a standalone subject.
Speaker 3 (17:56):
It is it. Yes, I don't know why they're going
on about it because it is going to be a
standalone subject.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Vanessa, what's your tracy, what's your an understanding?
Speaker 4 (18:03):
I think a piece of the puzzles missing here and
I like the way that it straddles academic and practical
and for a lot of young people they learn better.
You know that academics improve because they're able to do
something that they are passionate about in love. So I
think it's a real missed opportunity not to give it
(18:25):
that status that it deserves.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
So I see the Minister of Education is saying that
any concerns are unfounded. The subject will remain available for
both senior students and juniors. It's going to be strengthened
and use one to ten curriculum, which means it will
be clear about the teaching and learning that students will
get from outdoor education as part of their schooling.
Speaker 4 (18:45):
Yeah, but that just goes to show there's a lot
of confusion, and I go back to my first point
that the consultation process and the Minister clearly hasn't brought
the industry or the sector along with this decision if
it's created that much confusion.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
So before we finish up, what do you see the
value of outdoor education being Vanessa?
Speaker 3 (19:06):
Well, I think it contributes a lot to what we
value in this country. There's a lot of outdoor activities,
there's a lot of tourism based things that are outdoor
adventure type things. This is in leadership and development of people.
There's so much that he wes enjoy about our outdoors be.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
A great compulsory subject, wouldn't it.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
I think, I mean, I think pe and younger times
is compulsory anyway, So you.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Think outlove education should be composed.
Speaker 4 (19:35):
I just think we shouldn't underestimate the amazing gift of
that mastery of physical activity, particularly nature based activity. It's
what's lacking in the world and anything we can do
to formalize that and to encourage it and to make
sure that every young person leaves with the resilience and
the strength that that gives them.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
In safety gold safety. Yeah, so you'd make it. You'd
like to see it compilsory. If I was king for
a day's all right, Well tell what you're king for
a day. Thank you. You didn't sell the future fun,
but I'm with.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
You on that.
Speaker 4 (20:06):
I reckon that you canture fun and outdoor.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
You could walk into the WAPs, get a biby going,
and get the tent up and then sell the future funds.
Nice to see you both.
Speaker 1 (20:17):
For more from Caterbory Mornings with John McDonald, listen live
to news talks at be Christ Church from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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