Canterbury's top police officer believes the current policies around arming New Zealand police officers are appropriate.
Multiple investigations are underway following a double police shooting in Christchurch that left one dead and another seriously injured.
The Council of Licensed Firearms Owners says it's an example of what happens when police aren't trained to handle firearms in high pressure situations.
Canterbury District Commander Superintendent Tony Hill told John MacDonald training's ramped up in recent years to be some of the best in the world.
He says that most of the occasions they’ve looked at over the last few years hasn’t been a question about a lack of access to firearms, so he thinks the settings are right for the current environment.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald
from News Talk.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
ZB Canoby Police boss Superintendent Tony Hell's with us, Tony,
good morning. Tony is here for the whole hour and
we've got plenty to talk about, but we are interested
in hearing from you as well. If you've got a
question to put to Tony, if you've got an observation
regarding the police that you want to raise with Tony,
or even if you've just got something to pass on
(00:33):
to Tony. Might even be a pat on the back
for the Canterbury Police. Call us now, I went one
hundred and eighty. Ten to eighty is the number, Tony.
There is so much I suppose you can say anytime.
There's a lot going on with the police. But let's
we'll get to the rural police changes shortly, but let's
just touch on brindwer. What's the latest on the condition
of the man who was shot by police last week?
Speaker 3 (00:54):
So I understand he's still in a stable condition in
Christich hospitals.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
What's your response to people who have been saying and
you know this is online or you could say this
is inevitable, asking why your officer didn't taze a the
woman who died instead of shooting her.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
There's lots of questions about the evening and it really
would be inappropriate for me to comment at that stage
about that, I suppose. I want want to reassure the
community is that we have robust investigations underway, not just
by police but by the IPCA as well, and the
Independent Police Complaints Authority will run their own investigation, but
we really need to and let those processes take place
(01:33):
and respect them.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
I was interested to see that the Council of Licensed
Firearms Owners has been speaking out today saying that what
happened in Brindworth as an example of what happens when
police aren't sufficiently trained to handle firearms and high precious situations.
What's your response to that.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Well, I think that's it's far too early to see
if that's a question that's going to play out in
this matter. What I would say is that from over
the last few years we have seen a real emphasis
and uplift in the training of our staff in tactical situations.
So I think we've arguably our training is up with
of the best in the world.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Because there is also the well it's come through in
surveys of police staff in the last few years, who
they say, in fact, there was two thirds of staff
surveyed said at one point that they wanted to be
armed more regularly. I mean, what's your what's your personal
position on that?
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Well, it really has to we need to evaluate the
threat environment to determine it. And what we do know
is that most occasions when offenders are carrying firearms or
other weapons are actually to protect themselves against other offenders,
not as a means to protect themselves against police. So
our threaten environment would suggest the way that we carry
firearms at the moment or have access to them is
(02:48):
actually appropriate to our threat environment.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
So you don't agree with the staff who took part
in that survey or the ones who said they wanted
to be armed more regularly.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Well, I think that there were questioning is that and
this was I think this is from a couple.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Of years ago, I remember Police Sociation.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
I think what the arguable the question was framed in
a way that our staff were concerned they were seeing
in uprise and firearms being found in vehicles, and we
had a very close look at what circumstances that they
were being carried and as I said earlier, generally, and
the larger population of this was that firearms were being
carried by offenders for protection themselves, protection about other gang
(03:26):
members or other offenders that might you know. The typical
thing I suppose is an offender who's involved in distribution
of drugs has a fair about other offenders are involved
in that trade as well. But generally the evidence had
not support that our staff were in a position so
that we've been targeted by these offenders.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
We were talking on the show last week about arming
of police in the wake of what happened at Brindwer
and some of the comments coming through people were saying
that if police were armed more, that would create a
more volatile policing environment. What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Well, we have we have access to firearms, and I
think most of the occasions that we've seen and looked
at hard over the last few years, there hasn't been
a question about lack of access to firearms. So I
think our settings right for our current environment. The front
line have access to these tactical options when they need them.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
What is the exact setup, I mean, I suppose you
as much as you can say, what is the level
of availability of firearm to police on patrol.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
So the front line have access to they generally will
have access in terms of in the vehicles, they will
have firearms available to them and they just they carry them,
but they are there if they need to and their
approach to this is an event specific, so they don't
carry them on their person, but if they are going
to a job the circumstances that would require them to
(04:57):
be armed, then they have access and can put them on.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
So in Brindle the other night, the officers they didn't
access the weapons until they arrived at the scene.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Is that right, Well, that's all going to be part
of the investigation. But what's evident obviously is that at
some stage during the assessment that there was a decision
made to carry firearms.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Right And when someone is or when a firearm is
used by an officer, is the decision to do that.
Is it made by the officer with the firearm or
is it made by someone else who instructs them.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
So in general sense, it's the officer's are owned decision making,
but that's formed by a lot of facts that go
to before they get to the scene, you know, in
terms of it, and they assess all the information available
to come to the decision about what's the appropriate tactical
option to take to take to that event, and if
the threats at such level, then they would consider taking
(05:57):
firearms to the event.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Right, So the chance that an officer would get out
of a police car already armed.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Yes, and they may have made a decision to stop
at a safe location earlier to put those on. It's
it really determines on the event and the circumstances behind it.
But there isn't. I think the questioned before was about
to do someone get directed to discharge a fire them.
That's not the case.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Okay, So in Brenda the other night, it was the
officer who fired the shots who made the call to
do so.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
Well, I'm not going to speak specifically about Brenda. I'm
just talking generally. I know it sounds like I'm sort
of dancing around night, but well, I would say in
general sense that these are decisions that made by us,
and I do want to reiterate it's the last thing
that our staff wants to do. They come to do
it to work every day, to do their best, and
the last thing they want to be is in a
situation to make that.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Decision is that officer still off work.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Again, I'm not going to talk about the specific case,
all right, this one, Hi Diane.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
Good morning John, Good morning Tony. To say, I think
the police do a very good job, and I also
like to think that the police should be because they
should be able to go to work knowing that they're
going to come home in the evening. But now i've
throughout New Zealand, they do a pretty good job.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Have you used the police anytime, rescently.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Diane, Hi, yes, yes, at times. I'm an excellent service
from them, even on a one one will call a
few years ago.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Brilliant, Thanks Diane, appreciate it. Coming up eighteen past ten,
I went one hundred and eighty ten eighties a number.
Speaker 5 (07:30):
Hi John, Yeah, morning John, and your listeners and mister Hill,
is it yes, Tony Hill, Tony, Tony, Hey, Tony. I
just want to ask a couple of questions. As one is,
cheers for helping everybody, because it's a dangerous job. Secondly,
is why did the police like you have your sirens
(07:52):
on and you don't hear them. All you hear is
the lights. You can see the lights, but you don't
hear the noises.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Well, it's a very good question, John.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Yeah, good morning, John, and thanks for your support. There's
probably two things that play there. Is the occasions that
our staff just use the red and blues lights if
they're going to a place where they don't really want
to alert the people coming that we're coming. We tend
to not use the sirens, but it's not that common.
But most of the sirens are designed for all emergency
(08:25):
vehicles to project out the front of the vehicle these days,
so I think I'm nearly coming up to thirty five
year service and the police and when I first started,
you almost couldn't hear anything inside the vehicle, which made
things like talking on the radio to the communications he
a complex. But these days the sirens are designed to
project straight out the front of the vehicle because that's
(08:46):
the people we want to really want to alert that
we are coming.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
You must be frustrating when your staff are going to
a job and people don't get out of the way.
I seem to see that all the time.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Yes, And we also our stuff are really tolerant too,
because they know that actually a police car coming up
behind them with red and blues on and the siren
going can be and certainly for other people when the
vehicle is right behind them and often they wonder whether
it's them they're being pulled over or they're just trying
to get past. But generally our staff are really tolerant
(09:15):
with people at the same time.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Are you happy with that answer, John.
Speaker 5 (09:20):
Well, I'm very happy it. Cheers for that because you
can definitely see the lights, that's one thing. It's very bright.
But you know that's a question. Yeah, it's filled.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Me in, all right, and that's the only question you've got.
Speaker 5 (09:35):
Yes, that's all. But once again, it's a dangerous job.
And cheers two years all.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Thank you for brilliant Thank you, John oh Weight one
hundred and eighty ten eighty. It's number to call to
speak with Superintendent Tony Hill. It's a very good question,
so you're saying, because I have wondered myself why the
sirens aren't going the whole time, especially coming down brom Street,
and you only hear them when they get the intersection
of Columbo or something like that.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
It's a coming through the intersections is a slightly different
thing because we want to make sure we're entering the
intersection against the flow traffic or when the other ways
got the green lighter. Course that we do so safely,
so we you know, we encourage our staff and they
should be having the siren on, and this is a
very good reason why not, and our staff will be considering.
You know, these scenarios play out a lot. I suppose
(10:21):
if there's someone breaking into a grocery store or you know,
even to someone's house, and we want to get as
close to the scene as we possibly can to give
us the best chance, so bat for ending the offenders.
And occasionally we wouldn't use the sirens, but that's not
as common as most of the time you'll see our
staff with the sirens going.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
What's the what's the word for the threshold for getting
the police to turn up to an incident, because I
think most people would reluctantly say that if the car
gets broken and two chances of the police turning up's
pretty low.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Yeah, most occasions, our staff will turn up if the
offenders are still on the scene. So that's they suppose
those occasions our previous caller was referring to when the
when the lights are on and we're going there, if
there's no sign. The offenders of the year and their
offenses that can be reported through our one o five network,
(11:10):
then we encourage people to do that.
Speaker 6 (11:12):
Goody Scott today, John and kimmand a brilliant day outside
this morning.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
The police, the police operating in law weather.
Speaker 7 (11:22):
Yeah well, yeah, I get that. So my question or
Christians today, First off, I guess the square and not
having a depot or space there anymore, is that affecting any.
Speaker 6 (11:37):
Resilience or trouble for policing in the center of town.
And my second question is all these extra raised speed
humps and cycle lanes and extra traffic lights. How much
is that affecting response times and just even the whole
emergency services getting around town.
Speaker 8 (11:59):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Good, good question. Maybe I'll answer the second question. First
got about the It was certainly a factor in when
consideration was giving about where the Justice Precinct was being
stood up. And if you think about this, we've got
emergency vehicles that are coming out into thirty kilometer in
our zones. But what we have found is is that
(12:21):
we have some part of our metro response coming out
of the Justice Precinct in the middle of the city,
but we've still got four other stations where quite a
bit of our emergency response staff work out of which
it makes it much simpler for us to get around
the city and get to the parts that we need
too quickly. Your other question about it, I remember the
old beat precinct in the city was. I think it
(12:45):
was originally actually set up because it gave tourists and
opportunity to see and understand visibly where our presence was.
But nowadays, I suppose with the ability to google your
fingertips on your phone, we have no problem in people
finding where we are. We've got a public counter at
the Justice Precinct run seven hours, seven days of the week,
(13:07):
and over quite long periods of time.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Actually, Scott, would you mind if I jumped in before
Superintendent answers your other question about the speed humps, because
this is kind of connected. You got a minute, I
think you'll be interested in this. Why is it telling
you that it seems to be very difficult to get
it to get into an actual police station these days?
People tell me they go to cross your South and
they get told through the bus you got to go
(13:30):
to Central. Is it fair to say that police stations
aren't as accessible as it used to be.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
I think it's we really are trying to do an
education piece around the one five system for reporting things.
We don't want that to be at the detriment of
people turning up. But it is, though, isn't it well
to some degree? But also what we encourage people is
get online and have a look and see what stations open.
We would prefer that most people came to our services
(13:57):
and the Justice Precinct. It's not the greatest place to
get a park nearby where you know, we do acknowledge that,
but by and large, and what's what's in this proposal
is actually saying that we are reopening the public counter
in New Brighton, for example. So we want to have
a better way that we communicate with a public when
we are open at those locations.
Speaker 9 (14:14):
Right.
Speaker 6 (14:14):
So with that one o five system, I've tried to
use it a few times. I've also done reporting online
and stuff like that. I find myself that the one
oh five system is not immediate enough. You dial it
and you struggle to get a response, or it takes.
Speaker 7 (14:34):
The effort for ever.
Speaker 6 (14:37):
And even now with the start five five systems, trying
to report traffic problems or incidents or something on the roads,
whether it be dangers driving or stuff falling off the
back of a vehicle or things like that. How is
the police that are looking to streamline it so that
(14:59):
all those things merge so much better.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Yeah, good question. I think one O five thing the system.
Sorry to reporting that we are still building capabilities in
the area, and as we shifted to that, there was
reasonably good modeling done to understand the demand was going there.
But we're seeing that so sorry experiencing the higher demand
than what we initially expected. So it will gradually improve
(15:27):
over time. But that's good feedback for us. I'll make
sure that I feed that back to Police National Headquarters
who managed that part of our business for us.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
All right, we'll get the speed humps, but just the
other thing, Just to go back to the question I
had about accessibility of police stations, does that mean that
if someone was really in strife in Summerfield on Columbo
Street banged on the doors of the christ Atself police station,
they still wouldn't get in and be helped.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
So that I was supposed to The first want to
point out is all of these stations are operational police
stations and our frontline work out of them. So if
they were banging on the door and needed immediate assistance,
an officer would come out. We are trying to move
to a model where our service is delivered in the
community see them, not from a location. And in the
district review proposal, we are seeing that. You know, there's
(16:12):
quite a significant uplift about forty just over forty staff
that are going to be added to the front line
in terms of what we call the public safety scene, which.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Is right the staff. We'll come back to this got headlines,
but let's just wind up Scott's question about the speed
hunts and the impact on response times.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
So we aren't actually seeing the speed hunts are having
an impact on response times. I think our staff have
got quite good at working out where they are and
if they have to go somewhere quickly, they don't use
those roots and thoroughies. It's actually quite after a while
of being on frontline, you'll find our staff they know
the city, probably as good as some taxi driver as well.
But that's a good question. But I would want to
(16:49):
I suppose the message want to do say on that
is that we do know that these systems are there
to save life and people struggle. Remember when they went
to thirty kilometers now, but all the data would tell
us the more you go over there, the chances of
surviving and impact with a vehicle a pedestrian impact with
a vehicle starts to the minutes rapidly, and that's why
we have these things.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Police so actively avoiding streets where there are speed humps.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
If you have to go to somewhere in a hurry, John,
I'm not not just in general driving.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Scott satisfied customer.
Speaker 6 (17:15):
Well, you said no, I mean, I know, so I
live on one of the major therapies and we have
whether it's police, ambulance or fire go up and down
the street basically almost every hour. So it's yeah, I
just wonder because I've just finished doing a whole lot
of traffic or underground upgrades along Milton Street where I live,
(17:36):
and I think you're about to start putting in all
these extra speed humps to slow the traffic down. So
I just wonder, because, as I say, Milton Street down
through Sparks Road is quite a busy therapy for all
emergency services. So I just wondered.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
It sounds like you won't be seeing any flashing red
and blues down your street if they're in a hurry.
I think you Scott. Some people have been in touch
on ninety two as well, Tony. Someone says he had
no name, but they say they run the police on
a Sunday. I don't know if it was the Sunday
just now three weeks ago it was. Says it took
thirteen minutes to get through and then they got someone
(18:12):
on the end of the line who was in Auckland
and didn't know where Runny Aura was.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Yes, the model is that people are reporting things to
police that could go to one of our three emergency
dispatch centers, and it's just a little unclear whether that's
a call that's gone to the one five or where
the triple one. I'd be surprised if they be very
uncommon that someone waited that long for an emergency case.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
If that was your message, just clarify that for us.
On ninety two, ninety two, if it was a ones
at one five or a ten to five or one
one one call. Someone else says they they're in Phillipstown.
They said thanks for nothing with that tone, thanks for nothing.
Criminals living next to them for two years, multiple break ins, assaults,
threats to their kids, two years of calling the police
(18:59):
and little to no help. Can you can you defend that.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Well without knowing the wider coom text about you know
what we have responded to. It would be useful if
we could have a look at what we have done there.
And I suppose it demonstrates that some of these scenarios
we're dealing with are incredibly complex and take some time
to resolve that. I do feel for people in those situations.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
It's not ideal, all right, oh eight one hundred and
eighty ten eights and to get through to talk with
tone just for to take our next call. Let's touch
on the restructuring that the police are proposing in Canterbury.
What have you learned from the experience?
Speaker 3 (19:36):
At some stage we will have a debrief and do
a lessons lint.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
What have you learned so far?
Speaker 3 (19:41):
I think what we've learned is that there's a it's
equally important to make the I suppose the proposal very
clear for our people about if we're disestablishing, we're establishing
opportunities are and these processes don't always give us the
opportunity to do that. But also want to be mindful
that I don't ever want to be in a situation
(20:04):
where we create anxiety for for people, particularly our staff,
about the process. But you know, any change program, of
course is not easy for people to go through, and
I think we'll just continue to learn as we go
through this and know they're not that common. The last
one we did one here in Canterbury was in twenty seventeen.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
See, I had two MP's telling me on the same
week Nationals Bank's Finitul MP Venisi Winnic and Labors Tracy
mccleman by telling me that they thought communication the communication
hadn't been managed. Well, what's your response to that.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
Well, we met with our key stakeholders, which they are
and the lead up so arguably they knew the probably
more high details. We didn't give them the granular or
a copy of the proposal prior to the release of
it before our staff knews. So I was highlighting with
our key stakeholders, including the MPs, about look, this is
what we're trying to do in terms of modernizing our
(21:00):
service and bringing more balance to the way we provide
services across the Canbury district.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
How did the details get into the public domain.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
Well, we made a decision that it was appropriate to
put that in there. So some parts of our document
the public were aware of and what we were finding
is that small parts of our smaller parts of our
district and communities were where are some details and clearly
had a view on that that it didn't suit them.
(21:28):
But other parts that potentially could have a view on
where just clarified.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Were they aware of it because of your proactive communication
or through other channels?
Speaker 3 (21:37):
I think a bit of both. Were going to.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Did your staff for release and leak information?
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Well, I'm not certain of our staff did, but certainly
there are some finer details of this that they are
they have had at their fingertips all.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
When we spoke about it last it sounded to me
like you were planning to keep the culvid and station
but not staff at Can you clarify what it sounds
sounds to be like you're going to keep the structure,
but you weren't going to have people working there or
rostered there on a regular basis. Was that a fair
reading of it?
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Well, that the proposal sets out that we were going
to establish disestablish the two roles that are there, and
I suppose that's the point I make earlier, is that
we want to work to a model about the next
step will tell us, well, do they want to move
out of the area, what do we do? And it's
not clear and the proposal around that, but you know,
it's the next phase of our of this, which is
(22:26):
multi stepical. As we put a proposal forward, we consider
the feedback and look at you know, have we got
aspects of this right, and then we need to speak
to our staff about well what do they want to do.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Okay, so it's correct that you're going to keep the station,
but you're not going to have it staffed.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Absolutely, going to keep the station. How we staff it
is the challenge. So whether that's so.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
It's going to be a building and not necessarily a
permanent station.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
No, the intent is that someone will go and work
out of there from time to time, whether it's the
two staff that are based there or a person from
a nearby location.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
And what's time to time.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Well, what my expectation will be someone there every week.
And at the moment, of course, it's not open all
the time. It's only open when our staff working and
at the station if they're out and about, and then
the vehicle and then of course it's closed. It's not
it's not open on a regular basis.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
So what do you remember to say your expectations that
will be someone there every week? What do you mean?
Speaker 3 (23:21):
So when we started to talk about the rurally aison
officer role thing we spoke about that last time, how
any expectation would be that that officer would go to
that station and open it up. So if there were
people from the public who wanted to walk in and
talk to us, then we were available for that.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
All right, one is Stu.
Speaker 8 (23:36):
Yeah morning.
Speaker 10 (23:37):
Could I first congratulate the commander for actually fronting up,
which is something that some of the politicians could learn
from perhaps recently. Anyways, it's a great show John's got here,
so thank you for doing that. I have just a
quick comment. I had an interaction with the two constables
in the Celln district recently because my neighbor, the son
of an about eighteen year old we were sitting quietly
(24:00):
on a Friday evening enjoying it, and he kept calling
out quite loudly, obviously he was mostly intoxicated, saying he
was going to lay me out, a nasty sort of
thing to hear when you're sitting quietly, you're trying to
tell you whatever. And so I thought, well, my instincts
were I could go and entertain this fellow, because I'd
flatten them. But nonetheless, let's do the smart thing here
(24:22):
and call the police is to get him to settle down.
So two constables came out, put him in the back
of the car, gave him a bit of a fright,
brought him around to me and asked if he if
asked us if you wanted to hear an apology from
the guy, and I thought, well, it's not going to
mean much when he's in this drunken position, but can
I just bring your attention to the couple of things
that the two constables said to me after rejecting that
(24:46):
after of an apology, the first thing the constable said
to me was, well, you could put a bit of
fence up. We've got a bunding four foot deep, We've
got a sheep fence, and we've got a big row
of trees, poplar style tree. So I don't think we
do much more than that because we've got six horses
in the paddy behind our cottage.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
This is this is what Tony has got to say
about that stud.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
It's it's obviously a difficult situation. You know that, you
know that these things are reads me complex. I'm not
trying to flow it up to be something that's not.
But what I would say Stew is that we've you know,
we have been through models in the past. We encourage
our victims to build bigger fences and bigger wolves, but
actually we need to be really focused on the people
that people at the center of this, which is often
the offenders. So I wouldn't to resolve that problem.
Speaker 10 (25:36):
I think it's the strange thing to say when you've
got a four foot deep culvert sheep fence and poplars,
to say build I mean, we couldn't build more of
a bloody fence than we've already got there. But but
then what astounded my wife and I both and she
was a little upset about all this, hearing that her
husband is going to get laid out with this guy,
so she's a bit nervous about it. She said, well,
(25:56):
you could leave this. The constall said, well you could leave,
you know, I said. My quick response to that was, well,
it's not so easy with six horses and the pack
behind us. But to say build a bigger fence and
you can leave, when we're the people being threatened, I'm
being threatened to get laid out by this guy.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Yeah, that's pretty fair. It's a fair you make it
fair points, Jude, he does, doesn't he?
Speaker 9 (26:16):
Tony?
Speaker 2 (26:16):
He does? And look do you think sometimes you start
for a bit a bit lippy?
Speaker 3 (26:20):
Well, I think look, at the end of the day,
we do employee. You know, it's a human delivered service
and occasionally our staff we're going to get some parts
of this wrong. But what I would say is that
they were trying to resolve something in the in the
midst of the Friday night and dealing with someone intoxicated.
I'm not going to say that they get every piece
of advice ride on this and on this occasion with
(26:41):
being not But you know, whether it's good is that
they responded and dealt with the thing of the night.
And I hope that this young fellows len from that teassue.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Are these It's fourteen to eleven, eighty ten eighties and
I've a call to speak with a Superintendent Tony Hill
from the Canterbury Police Can I murray.
Speaker 10 (26:59):
Good morning, fellas fair way the day, Sorry Illo today,
Oh you're very good.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
I was just reading a message someone got back to
me about the phone call that took thirteen minutes to
get answered, but off you go, Murray, I'm very well, thank.
Speaker 8 (27:14):
You in minutes, that's for sure, all right, commander. Can
I ask you why people that don't wear helmets on
bicycles and the scooter riders both break the law by
going through red lights. I've seen bless cars go up
and down. Can't stand more roadway, don't stop and give
(27:39):
a ticket to people that don't have a helmet or
the scooter riders that are break them the law.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
It's a good question. I think that I've been puzzled
about that. Over the last few years, there seems to
be more and more people riding out. I can encourage you.
What I can, I suppose advise you, is that our
staff do from time to time. But it does. It's
a lot lower for us in terms of our priority.
It's we know the outcomes are falling off your bike
without a helmet I nowhere near as good as if
you had one on. So it's most of the time
(28:12):
we approach these from an educational perspective. We do prefer
to send our time dealing with motorists because the carnegie,
of course from a vehicle crash is much more severe.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
All right, thanks Murray, thank you, thank you. Run persons
got in touch to say that when it took them
thirteen minutes to get a response, was on ten to five,
ten five number.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Right, And I have heard that some of the responses
to ten five have been I suppose outside the area
that we would like to get to them.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
What's the target.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
I'm not sure that's I know there are some for comms,
but I don't have those at the I'm not sure.
That's not really part of my business. But I know
what they are trying to provide a great service to
the public, albeit doing a different way.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
All right, I've got a query coming up at the
Rakaia station. Well that's next. Claire's asking why you're looking
at closing the higher police station, saying that accidents on
the bridge would need assistant assistance from Rodston if the
bridge was closed.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
A very good point, actually, But the first point we
want to make is that we're not closing the station.
But what we do see, and on Claar's point, is
actually most of the demand for our staff in that
area is actually about the road, and it is a
busy road. We know it's getting busier. The model we
are proposing season uplift in frontline numbers, season uplift and
road policing numbers. This is specific to the area.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Can I just check because someone else is straight away
someone's chiming and here's saying there are three gangs in
ra KaiA and you're going to close the police station.
Why when you say you're not going to close it?
Is that a bit like COVID and you're going to
have a building and people will come to now and then.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
It's some of the model, but not quite because so when.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
You say you're not closing these stations, it's not quite right,
is it.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
Well you said that's right because it's still an operational
police station that staff will work.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Out of when they're there.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
Well, that's what that's the model we've got at the
moment open when that stuff member is there.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Will you have officers rostered on there?
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Well, I think that's the deployment thing as we move forward.
That's the comment I made earlier that you know, my
expectation would be we have days of the week, then
actually we have someone there.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
How much of this is to do by getting more
of the rural police doing road patrols. How much of
us to do with the government's termination that part of
your funding is going to be determined by how many tickets.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
You're right, So it's not about that. So it's not
about how many tickets.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Were right because delay there tiny.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
Well, I think like most people think, oh, this is
a revenue collecting thing. But we met our target last
year on our current structure.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
But the government's saying that some of your funding will
be at risk if you don't issue a certain number
of tickets, will conduct a certain number of roadside drink
and drug tests. Is that what this is all about. No,
it's not about that.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
And the reason I say that is that we achieved
that target last year under our current structure. So we're
not moving or changing that because of that.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
All right, it's got a Wendy high.
Speaker 9 (31:00):
Wendy Hello, I'm just like to just make a few comments.
So I used to love up not in Colvid and
also in Oxford, and I had quite a lot to
do with the police over the time, being a justice
the peace. I just can't speak highly enough of the
work that they do around the community. I just recently
up in Covid and I watched the police when the
(31:22):
children got out of school, just making sure they were
safe and the community. You know, their rapport with the
community is incredible. The same with Oxford. The police are
seen there, the rapport with them and the children is incredible.
So I'm just really sorry that this is going to
(31:44):
happen because I just feel that in the rural communities
it's a it's a tragic loss. I just point out
to the building in Covid and it was only a
one room building community and my husband included, we got
going and built well, not me, we got going and
built that second room on.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
We did it for enough when I'm just get a
one job. I just want to get a quick response
from Tony.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Thanks for your call. We we are aware that the
our staff are doing there, but we are in a
scenario if we look at our demand, we've got more
staff than we've got demand for and what we are
seeing is that demand and other aspects hasn't Road policing
isn't being.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Met all right. One final question before the last election,
the National Party candidate said or christ is getting a
police helicopter. What's happened to that?
Speaker 3 (32:31):
It's you know, there's been hotly debated for quite a
while now, John, but there's no plans for a police
to have a helicopter down here at the moment. We
are looking at other things and even the consideration of
drones as we move forward, but there's certainly not plans
to have a helicopter here.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
At this stage. Do you think we need one at the.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
Moment, I'd say that we don't. We are managing the
demand with what we've got in terms of resource. And look,
these things are great for particularly for fleeing vehicles and
the like. But in our stars but they tell me
from time to time that they'd love one as well.
But the reality is that we are managing to do
what we're doing without one.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
We've only got a few seconds. But how often would
you say you end up hiring a private helicopter to
help with searchers for people.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
So two different things that go from a search perspective,
you know, that's that's reasonably uncommon. I think on chasing crimbs,
maybe once a month for the search thing. Maybe about
the same volume for chasing a flank car. But we
do have access to helicopters and we do use them
from time to time.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
I really appreciate it coming in, Tony and all the
best with your work.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
Yeah, and thank you for the opportunity.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
Tony Hill, Superintendent Tony Hill, Canterbury Police Commander.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
For more from Caterbory Mornings with John McDonald, listen live
to news talks It'd be christ Church from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Canterbury Mornings podcast with John McDonald
from News Talk.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
ZB Canoby Police boss Superintendent Tony Hell's with us, Tony,
good morning. Tony is here for the whole hour and
we've got plenty to talk about, but we are interested
in hearing from you as well. If you've got a
question to put to Tony, if you've got an observation
regarding the police that you want to raise with Tony,
or even if you've just got something to pass on
(00:33):
to Tony. Might even be a pat on the back
for the Canterbury Police. Call us now, I went one
hundred and eighty. Ten to eighty is the number, Tony.
There is so much I suppose you can say anytime.
There's a lot going on with the police. But let's
we'll get to the rural police changes shortly, but let's
just touch on brindwer. What's the latest on the condition
of the man who was shot by police last week?
Speaker 3 (00:54):
So I understand he's still in a stable condition in
Christich hospitals.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
What's your response to people who have been saying and
you know this is online or you could say this
is inevitable, asking why your officer didn't taze a the
woman who died instead of shooting her.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
There's lots of questions about the evening and it really
would be inappropriate for me to comment at that stage
about that, I suppose. I want want to reassure the
community is that we have robust investigations underway, not just
by police but by the IPCA as well, and the
Independent Police Complaints Authority will run their own investigation, but
we really need to and let those processes take place
(01:33):
and respect them.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
I was interested to see that the Council of Licensed
Firearms Owners has been speaking out today saying that what
happened in Brindworth as an example of what happens when
police aren't sufficiently trained to handle firearms and high precious situations.
What's your response to that.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Well, I think that's it's far too early to see
if that's a question that's going to play out in
this matter. What I would say is that from over
the last few years we have seen a real emphasis
and uplift in the training of our staff in tactical situations.
So I think we've arguably our training is up with
of the best in the world.
Speaker 2 (02:07):
Because there is also the well it's come through in
surveys of police staff in the last few years, who
they say, in fact, there was two thirds of staff
surveyed said at one point that they wanted to be
armed more regularly. I mean, what's your what's your personal
position on that?
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Well, it really has to we need to evaluate the
threat environment to determine it. And what we do know
is that most occasions when offenders are carrying firearms or
other weapons are actually to protect themselves against other offenders,
not as a means to protect themselves against police. So
our threaten environment would suggest the way that we carry
firearms at the moment or have access to them is
(02:48):
actually appropriate to our threat environment.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
So you don't agree with the staff who took part
in that survey or the ones who said they wanted
to be armed more regularly.
Speaker 3 (02:58):
Well, I think that there were questioning is that and
this was I think this is from a couple.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Of years ago, I remember Police Sociation.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
I think what the arguable the question was framed in
a way that our staff were concerned they were seeing
in uprise and firearms being found in vehicles, and we
had a very close look at what circumstances that they
were being carried and as I said earlier, generally, and
the larger population of this was that firearms were being
carried by offenders for protection themselves, protection about other gang
(03:26):
members or other offenders that might you know. The typical
thing I suppose is an offender who's involved in distribution
of drugs has a fair about other offenders are involved
in that trade as well. But generally the evidence had
not support that our staff were in a position so
that we've been targeted by these offenders.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
We were talking on the show last week about arming
of police in the wake of what happened at Brindwer
and some of the comments coming through people were saying
that if police were armed more, that would create a
more volatile policing environment. What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 3 (04:03):
Well, we have we have access to firearms, and I
think most of the occasions that we've seen and looked
at hard over the last few years, there hasn't been
a question about lack of access to firearms. So I
think our settings right for our current environment. The front
line have access to these tactical options when they need them.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
What is the exact setup, I mean, I suppose you
as much as you can say, what is the level
of availability of firearm to police on patrol.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
So the front line have access to they generally will
have access in terms of in the vehicles, they will
have firearms available to them and they just they carry them,
but they are there if they need to and their
approach to this is an event specific, so they don't
carry them on their person, but if they are going
to a job the circumstances that would require them to
(04:57):
be armed, then they have access and can put them on.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
So in Brindle the other night, the officers they didn't
access the weapons until they arrived at the scene.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Is that right, Well, that's all going to be part
of the investigation. But what's evident obviously is that at
some stage during the assessment that there was a decision
made to carry firearms.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Right And when someone is or when a firearm is
used by an officer, is the decision to do that.
Is it made by the officer with the firearm or
is it made by someone else who instructs them.
Speaker 3 (05:35):
So in general sense, it's the officer's are owned decision making,
but that's formed by a lot of facts that go
to before they get to the scene, you know, in
terms of it, and they assess all the information available
to come to the decision about what's the appropriate tactical
option to take to take to that event, and if
the threats at such level, then they would consider taking
(05:57):
firearms to the event.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
Right, So the chance that an officer would get out
of a police car already armed.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Yes, and they may have made a decision to stop
at a safe location earlier to put those on. It's
it really determines on the event and the circumstances behind it.
But there isn't. I think the questioned before was about
to do someone get directed to discharge a fire them.
That's not the case.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Okay, So in Brenda the other night, it was the
officer who fired the shots who made the call to
do so.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
Well, I'm not going to speak specifically about Brenda. I'm
just talking generally. I know it sounds like I'm sort
of dancing around night, but well, I would say in
general sense that these are decisions that made by us,
and I do want to reiterate it's the last thing
that our staff wants to do. They come to do
it to work every day, to do their best, and
the last thing they want to be is in a
situation to make that.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Decision is that officer still off work.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Again, I'm not going to talk about the specific case,
all right, this one, Hi Diane.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
Good morning John, Good morning Tony. To say, I think
the police do a very good job, and I also
like to think that the police should be because they
should be able to go to work knowing that they're
going to come home in the evening. But now i've
throughout New Zealand, they do a pretty good job.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Have you used the police anytime, rescently.
Speaker 4 (07:14):
Diane, Hi, yes, yes, at times. I'm an excellent service
from them, even on a one one will call a
few years ago.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Brilliant, Thanks Diane, appreciate it. Coming up eighteen past ten,
I went one hundred and eighty ten eighties a number.
Speaker 5 (07:30):
Hi John, Yeah, morning John, and your listeners and mister Hill,
is it yes, Tony Hill, Tony, Tony, Hey, Tony. I
just want to ask a couple of questions. As one is,
cheers for helping everybody, because it's a dangerous job. Secondly,
is why did the police like you have your sirens
(07:52):
on and you don't hear them. All you hear is
the lights. You can see the lights, but you don't
hear the noises.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Well, it's a very good question, John.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Yeah, good morning, John, and thanks for your support. There's
probably two things that play there. Is the occasions that
our staff just use the red and blues lights if
they're going to a place where they don't really want
to alert the people coming that we're coming. We tend
to not use the sirens, but it's not that common.
But most of the sirens are designed for all emergency
(08:25):
vehicles to project out the front of the vehicle these days,
so I think I'm nearly coming up to thirty five
year service and the police and when I first started,
you almost couldn't hear anything inside the vehicle, which made
things like talking on the radio to the communications he
a complex. But these days the sirens are designed to
project straight out the front of the vehicle because that's
(08:46):
the people we want to really want to alert that
we are coming.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
You must be frustrating when your staff are going to
a job and people don't get out of the way.
I seem to see that all the time.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Yes, And we also our stuff are really tolerant too,
because they know that actually a police car coming up
behind them with red and blues on and the siren
going can be and certainly for other people when the
vehicle is right behind them and often they wonder whether
it's them they're being pulled over or they're just trying
to get past. But generally our staff are really tolerant
(09:15):
with people at the same time.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
Are you happy with that answer, John.
Speaker 5 (09:20):
Well, I'm very happy it. Cheers for that because you
can definitely see the lights, that's one thing. It's very bright.
But you know that's a question. Yeah, it's filled.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Me in, all right, and that's the only question you've got.
Speaker 5 (09:35):
Yes, that's all. But once again, it's a dangerous job.
And cheers two years all.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
Thank you for brilliant Thank you, John oh Weight one
hundred and eighty ten eighty. It's number to call to
speak with Superintendent Tony Hill. It's a very good question,
so you're saying, because I have wondered myself why the
sirens aren't going the whole time, especially coming down brom Street,
and you only hear them when they get the intersection
of Columbo or something like that.
Speaker 3 (09:59):
It's a coming through the intersections is a slightly different
thing because we want to make sure we're entering the
intersection against the flow traffic or when the other ways
got the green lighter. Course that we do so safely,
so we you know, we encourage our staff and they
should be having the siren on, and this is a
very good reason why not, and our staff will be considering.
You know, these scenarios play out a lot. I suppose
(10:21):
if there's someone breaking into a grocery store or you know,
even to someone's house, and we want to get as
close to the scene as we possibly can to give
us the best chance, so bat for ending the offenders.
And occasionally we wouldn't use the sirens, but that's not
as common as most of the time you'll see our
staff with the sirens going.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
What's the what's the word for the threshold for getting
the police to turn up to an incident, because I
think most people would reluctantly say that if the car
gets broken and two chances of the police turning up's
pretty low.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
Yeah, most occasions, our staff will turn up if the
offenders are still on the scene. So that's they suppose
those occasions our previous caller was referring to when the
when the lights are on and we're going there, if
there's no sign. The offenders of the year and their
offenses that can be reported through our one o five network,
(11:10):
then we encourage people to do that.
Speaker 6 (11:12):
Goody Scott today, John and kimmand a brilliant day outside
this morning.
Speaker 2 (11:19):
The police, the police operating in law weather.
Speaker 7 (11:22):
Yeah well, yeah, I get that. So my question or
Christians today, First off, I guess the square and not
having a depot or space there anymore, is that affecting any.
Speaker 6 (11:37):
Resilience or trouble for policing in the center of town.
And my second question is all these extra raised speed
humps and cycle lanes and extra traffic lights. How much
is that affecting response times and just even the whole
emergency services getting around town.
Speaker 8 (11:59):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (12:00):
Good, good question. Maybe I'll answer the second question. First
got about the It was certainly a factor in when
consideration was giving about where the Justice Precinct was being
stood up. And if you think about this, we've got
emergency vehicles that are coming out into thirty kilometer in
our zones. But what we have found is is that
(12:21):
we have some part of our metro response coming out
of the Justice Precinct in the middle of the city,
but we've still got four other stations where quite a
bit of our emergency response staff work out of which
it makes it much simpler for us to get around
the city and get to the parts that we need
too quickly. Your other question about it, I remember the
old beat precinct in the city was. I think it
(12:45):
was originally actually set up because it gave tourists and
opportunity to see and understand visibly where our presence was.
But nowadays, I suppose with the ability to google your
fingertips on your phone, we have no problem in people
finding where we are. We've got a public counter at
the Justice Precinct run seven hours, seven days of the week,
(13:07):
and over quite long periods of time.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Actually, Scott, would you mind if I jumped in before
Superintendent answers your other question about the speed humps, because
this is kind of connected. You got a minute, I
think you'll be interested in this. Why is it telling
you that it seems to be very difficult to get
it to get into an actual police station these days?
People tell me they go to cross your South and
they get told through the bus you got to go
(13:30):
to Central. Is it fair to say that police stations
aren't as accessible as it used to be.
Speaker 3 (13:35):
I think it's we really are trying to do an
education piece around the one five system for reporting things.
We don't want that to be at the detriment of
people turning up. But it is, though, isn't it well
to some degree? But also what we encourage people is
get online and have a look and see what stations open.
We would prefer that most people came to our services
(13:57):
and the Justice Precinct. It's not the greatest place to
get a park nearby where you know, we do acknowledge that,
but by and large, and what's what's in this proposal
is actually saying that we are reopening the public counter
in New Brighton, for example. So we want to have
a better way that we communicate with a public when
we are open at those locations.
Speaker 9 (14:14):
Right.
Speaker 6 (14:14):
So with that one o five system, I've tried to
use it a few times. I've also done reporting online
and stuff like that. I find myself that the one
oh five system is not immediate enough. You dial it
and you struggle to get a response, or it takes.
Speaker 7 (14:34):
The effort for ever.
Speaker 6 (14:37):
And even now with the start five five systems, trying
to report traffic problems or incidents or something on the roads,
whether it be dangers driving or stuff falling off the
back of a vehicle or things like that. How is
the police that are looking to streamline it so that
(14:59):
all those things merge so much better.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
Yeah, good question. I think one O five thing the system.
Sorry to reporting that we are still building capabilities in
the area, and as we shifted to that, there was
reasonably good modeling done to understand the demand was going there.
But we're seeing that so sorry experiencing the higher demand
than what we initially expected. So it will gradually improve
(15:27):
over time. But that's good feedback for us. I'll make
sure that I feed that back to Police National Headquarters
who managed that part of our business for us.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
All right, we'll get the speed humps, but just the
other thing, Just to go back to the question I
had about accessibility of police stations, does that mean that
if someone was really in strife in Summerfield on Columbo
Street banged on the doors of the christ Atself police station,
they still wouldn't get in and be helped.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
So that I was supposed to The first want to
point out is all of these stations are operational police
stations and our frontline work out of them. So if
they were banging on the door and needed immediate assistance,
an officer would come out. We are trying to move
to a model where our service is delivered in the
community see them, not from a location. And in the
district review proposal, we are seeing that. You know, there's
(16:12):
quite a significant uplift about forty just over forty staff
that are going to be added to the front line
in terms of what we call the public safety scene, which.
Speaker 2 (16:20):
Is right the staff. We'll come back to this got headlines,
but let's just wind up Scott's question about the speed
hunts and the impact on response times.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
So we aren't actually seeing the speed hunts are having
an impact on response times. I think our staff have
got quite good at working out where they are and
if they have to go somewhere quickly, they don't use
those roots and thoroughies. It's actually quite after a while
of being on frontline, you'll find our staff they know
the city, probably as good as some taxi driver as well.
But that's a good question. But I would want to
(16:49):
I suppose the message want to do say on that
is that we do know that these systems are there
to save life and people struggle. Remember when they went
to thirty kilometers now, but all the data would tell
us the more you go over there, the chances of
surviving and impact with a vehicle a pedestrian impact with
a vehicle starts to the minutes rapidly, and that's why
we have these things.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Police so actively avoiding streets where there are speed humps.
Speaker 3 (17:09):
If you have to go to somewhere in a hurry, John,
I'm not not just in general driving.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
Scott satisfied customer.
Speaker 6 (17:15):
Well, you said no, I mean, I know, so I
live on one of the major therapies and we have
whether it's police, ambulance or fire go up and down
the street basically almost every hour. So it's yeah, I
just wonder because I've just finished doing a whole lot
of traffic or underground upgrades along Milton Street where I live,
(17:36):
and I think you're about to start putting in all
these extra speed humps to slow the traffic down. So
I just wonder, because, as I say, Milton Street down
through Sparks Road is quite a busy therapy for all
emergency services. So I just wondered.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
It sounds like you won't be seeing any flashing red
and blues down your street if they're in a hurry.
I think you Scott. Some people have been in touch
on ninety two as well, Tony. Someone says he had
no name, but they say they run the police on
a Sunday. I don't know if it was the Sunday
just now three weeks ago it was. Says it took
thirteen minutes to get through and then they got someone
(18:12):
on the end of the line who was in Auckland
and didn't know where Runny Aura was.
Speaker 3 (18:17):
Yes, the model is that people are reporting things to
police that could go to one of our three emergency
dispatch centers, and it's just a little unclear whether that's
a call that's gone to the one five or where
the triple one. I'd be surprised if they be very
uncommon that someone waited that long for an emergency case.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
If that was your message, just clarify that for us.
On ninety two, ninety two, if it was a ones
at one five or a ten to five or one
one one call. Someone else says they they're in Phillipstown.
They said thanks for nothing with that tone, thanks for nothing.
Criminals living next to them for two years, multiple break ins, assaults,
threats to their kids, two years of calling the police
(18:59):
and little to no help. Can you can you defend that.
Speaker 3 (19:04):
Well without knowing the wider coom text about you know
what we have responded to. It would be useful if
we could have a look at what we have done there.
And I suppose it demonstrates that some of these scenarios
we're dealing with are incredibly complex and take some time
to resolve that. I do feel for people in those situations.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
It's not ideal, all right, oh eight one hundred and
eighty ten eights and to get through to talk with
tone just for to take our next call. Let's touch
on the restructuring that the police are proposing in Canterbury.
What have you learned from the experience?
Speaker 3 (19:36):
At some stage we will have a debrief and do
a lessons lint.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
What have you learned so far?
Speaker 3 (19:41):
I think what we've learned is that there's a it's
equally important to make the I suppose the proposal very
clear for our people about if we're disestablishing, we're establishing
opportunities are and these processes don't always give us the
opportunity to do that. But also want to be mindful
that I don't ever want to be in a situation
(20:04):
where we create anxiety for for people, particularly our staff,
about the process. But you know, any change program, of
course is not easy for people to go through, and
I think we'll just continue to learn as we go
through this and know they're not that common. The last
one we did one here in Canterbury was in twenty seventeen.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
See, I had two MP's telling me on the same
week Nationals Bank's Finitul MP Venisi Winnic and Labors Tracy
mccleman by telling me that they thought communication the communication
hadn't been managed. Well, what's your response to that.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
Well, we met with our key stakeholders, which they are
and the lead up so arguably they knew the probably
more high details. We didn't give them the granular or
a copy of the proposal prior to the release of
it before our staff knews. So I was highlighting with
our key stakeholders, including the MPs, about look, this is
what we're trying to do in terms of modernizing our
(21:00):
service and bringing more balance to the way we provide
services across the Canbury district.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
How did the details get into the public domain.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
Well, we made a decision that it was appropriate to
put that in there. So some parts of our document
the public were aware of and what we were finding
is that small parts of our smaller parts of our
district and communities were where are some details and clearly
had a view on that that it didn't suit them.
(21:28):
But other parts that potentially could have a view on
where just clarified.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Were they aware of it because of your proactive communication
or through other channels?
Speaker 3 (21:37):
I think a bit of both. Were going to.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
Did your staff for release and leak information?
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Well, I'm not certain of our staff did, but certainly
there are some finer details of this that they are
they have had at their fingertips all.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
When we spoke about it last it sounded to me
like you were planning to keep the culvid and station
but not staff at Can you clarify what it sounds
sounds to be like you're going to keep the structure,
but you weren't going to have people working there or
rostered there on a regular basis. Was that a fair
reading of it?
Speaker 3 (22:04):
Well, that the proposal sets out that we were going
to establish disestablish the two roles that are there, and
I suppose that's the point I make earlier, is that
we want to work to a model about the next
step will tell us, well, do they want to move
out of the area, what do we do? And it's
not clear and the proposal around that, but you know,
it's the next phase of our of this, which is
(22:26):
multi stepical. As we put a proposal forward, we consider
the feedback and look at you know, have we got
aspects of this right, and then we need to speak
to our staff about well what do they want to do.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Okay, so it's correct that you're going to keep the station,
but you're not going to have it staffed.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Absolutely, going to keep the station. How we staff it
is the challenge. So whether that's so.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
It's going to be a building and not necessarily a
permanent station.
Speaker 3 (22:51):
No, the intent is that someone will go and work
out of there from time to time, whether it's the
two staff that are based there or a person from
a nearby location.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
And what's time to time.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
Well, what my expectation will be someone there every week.
And at the moment, of course, it's not open all
the time. It's only open when our staff working and
at the station if they're out and about, and then
the vehicle and then of course it's closed. It's not
it's not open on a regular basis.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
So what do you remember to say your expectations that
will be someone there every week? What do you mean?
Speaker 3 (23:21):
So when we started to talk about the rurally aison
officer role thing we spoke about that last time, how
any expectation would be that that officer would go to
that station and open it up. So if there were
people from the public who wanted to walk in and
talk to us, then we were available for that.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
All right, one is Stu.
Speaker 8 (23:36):
Yeah morning.
Speaker 10 (23:37):
Could I first congratulate the commander for actually fronting up,
which is something that some of the politicians could learn
from perhaps recently. Anyways, it's a great show John's got here,
so thank you for doing that. I have just a
quick comment. I had an interaction with the two constables
in the Celln district recently because my neighbor, the son
of an about eighteen year old we were sitting quietly
(24:00):
on a Friday evening enjoying it, and he kept calling
out quite loudly, obviously he was mostly intoxicated, saying he
was going to lay me out, a nasty sort of
thing to hear when you're sitting quietly, you're trying to
tell you whatever. And so I thought, well, my instincts
were I could go and entertain this fellow, because I'd
flatten them. But nonetheless, let's do the smart thing here
(24:22):
and call the police is to get him to settle down.
So two constables came out, put him in the back
of the car, gave him a bit of a fright,
brought him around to me and asked if he if
asked us if you wanted to hear an apology from
the guy, and I thought, well, it's not going to
mean much when he's in this drunken position, but can
I just bring your attention to the couple of things
that the two constables said to me after rejecting that
(24:46):
after of an apology, the first thing the constable said
to me was, well, you could put a bit of
fence up. We've got a bunding four foot deep, We've
got a sheep fence, and we've got a big row
of trees, poplar style tree. So I don't think we
do much more than that because we've got six horses
in the paddy behind our cottage.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
This is this is what Tony has got to say
about that stud.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
It's it's obviously a difficult situation. You know that, you
know that these things are reads me complex. I'm not
trying to flow it up to be something that's not.
But what I would say Stew is that we've you know,
we have been through models in the past. We encourage
our victims to build bigger fences and bigger wolves, but
actually we need to be really focused on the people
that people at the center of this, which is often
the offenders. So I wouldn't to resolve that problem.
Speaker 10 (25:36):
I think it's the strange thing to say when you've
got a four foot deep culvert sheep fence and poplars,
to say build I mean, we couldn't build more of
a bloody fence than we've already got there. But but
then what astounded my wife and I both and she
was a little upset about all this, hearing that her
husband is going to get laid out with this guy,
so she's a bit nervous about it. She said, well,
(25:56):
you could leave this. The constall said, well you could leave,
you know, I said. My quick response to that was, well,
it's not so easy with six horses and the pack
behind us. But to say build a bigger fence and
you can leave, when we're the people being threatened, I'm
being threatened to get laid out by this guy.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
Yeah, that's pretty fair. It's a fair you make it
fair points, Jude, he does, doesn't he?
Speaker 9 (26:16):
Tony?
Speaker 2 (26:16):
He does? And look do you think sometimes you start
for a bit a bit lippy?
Speaker 3 (26:20):
Well, I think look, at the end of the day,
we do employee. You know, it's a human delivered service
and occasionally our staff we're going to get some parts
of this wrong. But what I would say is that
they were trying to resolve something in the in the
midst of the Friday night and dealing with someone intoxicated.
I'm not going to say that they get every piece
of advice ride on this and on this occasion with
(26:41):
being not But you know, whether it's good is that
they responded and dealt with the thing of the night.
And I hope that this young fellows len from that teassue.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
Are these It's fourteen to eleven, eighty ten eighties and
I've a call to speak with a Superintendent Tony Hill
from the Canterbury Police Can I murray.
Speaker 10 (26:59):
Good morning, fellas fair way the day, Sorry Illo today,
Oh you're very good.
Speaker 2 (27:07):
I was just reading a message someone got back to
me about the phone call that took thirteen minutes to
get answered, but off you go, Murray, I'm very well, thank.
Speaker 8 (27:14):
You in minutes, that's for sure, all right, commander. Can
I ask you why people that don't wear helmets on
bicycles and the scooter riders both break the law by
going through red lights. I've seen bless cars go up
and down. Can't stand more roadway, don't stop and give
(27:39):
a ticket to people that don't have a helmet or
the scooter riders that are break them the law.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
It's a good question. I think that I've been puzzled
about that. Over the last few years, there seems to
be more and more people riding out. I can encourage you.
What I can, I suppose advise you, is that our
staff do from time to time. But it does. It's
a lot lower for us in terms of our priority.
It's we know the outcomes are falling off your bike
without a helmet I nowhere near as good as if
you had one on. So it's most of the time
(28:12):
we approach these from an educational perspective. We do prefer
to send our time dealing with motorists because the carnegie,
of course from a vehicle crash is much more severe.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
All right, thanks Murray, thank you, thank you. Run persons
got in touch to say that when it took them
thirteen minutes to get a response, was on ten to five,
ten five number.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Right, And I have heard that some of the responses
to ten five have been I suppose outside the area
that we would like to get to them.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
What's the target.
Speaker 3 (28:45):
I'm not sure that's I know there are some for comms,
but I don't have those at the I'm not sure.
That's not really part of my business. But I know
what they are trying to provide a great service to
the public, albeit doing a different way.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
All right, I've got a query coming up at the
Rakaia station. Well that's next. Claire's asking why you're looking
at closing the higher police station, saying that accidents on
the bridge would need assistant assistance from Rodston if the
bridge was closed.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
A very good point, actually, But the first point we
want to make is that we're not closing the station.
But what we do see, and on Claar's point, is
actually most of the demand for our staff in that
area is actually about the road, and it is a
busy road. We know it's getting busier. The model we
are proposing season uplift in frontline numbers, season uplift and
road policing numbers. This is specific to the area.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Can I just check because someone else is straight away
someone's chiming and here's saying there are three gangs in
ra KaiA and you're going to close the police station.
Why when you say you're not going to close it?
Is that a bit like COVID and you're going to
have a building and people will come to now and then.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
It's some of the model, but not quite because so when.
Speaker 2 (29:53):
You say you're not closing these stations, it's not quite right,
is it.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
Well you said that's right because it's still an operational
police station that staff will work.
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Out of when they're there.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
Well, that's what that's the model we've got at the
moment open when that stuff member is there.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Will you have officers rostered on there?
Speaker 3 (30:10):
Well, I think that's the deployment thing as we move forward.
That's the comment I made earlier that you know, my
expectation would be we have days of the week, then
actually we have someone there.
Speaker 2 (30:17):
How much of this is to do by getting more
of the rural police doing road patrols. How much of
us to do with the government's termination that part of
your funding is going to be determined by how many tickets.
Speaker 3 (30:28):
You're right, So it's not about that. So it's not
about how many tickets.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Were right because delay there tiny.
Speaker 3 (30:34):
Well, I think like most people think, oh, this is
a revenue collecting thing. But we met our target last
year on our current structure.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
But the government's saying that some of your funding will
be at risk if you don't issue a certain number
of tickets, will conduct a certain number of roadside drink
and drug tests. Is that what this is all about. No,
it's not about that.
Speaker 3 (30:51):
And the reason I say that is that we achieved
that target last year under our current structure. So we're
not moving or changing that because of that.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
All right, it's got a Wendy high.
Speaker 9 (31:00):
Wendy Hello, I'm just like to just make a few comments.
So I used to love up not in Colvid and
also in Oxford, and I had quite a lot to
do with the police over the time, being a justice
the peace. I just can't speak highly enough of the
work that they do around the community. I just recently
up in Covid and I watched the police when the
(31:22):
children got out of school, just making sure they were
safe and the community. You know, their rapport with the
community is incredible. The same with Oxford. The police are
seen there, the rapport with them and the children is incredible.
So I'm just really sorry that this is going to
(31:44):
happen because I just feel that in the rural communities
it's a it's a tragic loss. I just point out
to the building in Covid and it was only a
one room building community and my husband included, we got
going and built well, not me, we got going and
built that second room on.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
We did it for enough when I'm just get a
one job. I just want to get a quick response
from Tony.
Speaker 3 (32:12):
Thanks for your call. We we are aware that the
our staff are doing there, but we are in a
scenario if we look at our demand, we've got more
staff than we've got demand for and what we are
seeing is that demand and other aspects hasn't Road policing
isn't being.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
Met all right. One final question before the last election,
the National Party candidate said or christ is getting a
police helicopter. What's happened to that?
Speaker 3 (32:31):
It's you know, there's been hotly debated for quite a
while now, John, but there's no plans for a police
to have a helicopter down here at the moment. We
are looking at other things and even the consideration of
drones as we move forward, but there's certainly not plans
to have a helicopter here.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
At this stage. Do you think we need one at the.
Speaker 3 (32:48):
Moment, I'd say that we don't. We are managing the
demand with what we've got in terms of resource. And look,
these things are great for particularly for fleeing vehicles and
the like. But in our stars but they tell me
from time to time that they'd love one as well.
But the reality is that we are managing to do
what we're doing without one.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
We've only got a few seconds. But how often would
you say you end up hiring a private helicopter to
help with searchers for people.
Speaker 3 (33:13):
So two different things that go from a search perspective,
you know, that's that's reasonably uncommon. I think on chasing crimbs,
maybe once a month for the search thing. Maybe about
the same volume for chasing a flank car. But we
do have access to helicopters and we do use them
from time to time.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
I really appreciate it coming in, Tony and all the
best with your work.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
Yeah, and thank you for the opportunity.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
Tony Hill, Superintendent Tony Hill, Canterbury Police Commander.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
For more from Caterbory Mornings with John McDonald, listen live
to news talks It'd be christ Church from nine am weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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