James Headley: Otago University International Relations Expert on Phil Goff being fired for making comments about Trump

Phil Goff has paid the price for stepping out of his lane and commenting on US President Donald Trump. 

The comments questioning Trump's understanding of war history yesterday has cost the High Commissioner to the UK his job. 

Otago University's international relations expert James Headley told Andrew Dickens in other circumstances, a diplomat wouldn't be fired after making such comments. 

But he says our Government is aware that Trump is very sensitive to criticism. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Phil Goff has gone from London. Winston Peters has sacked
the High Commissioner over this question. He asked Finland's Foreign
Minister during a public q and a at Chatham House.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
I was rereading Churchill's speech to the House of Commons
in nineteen thirty eight after the Munich agreement, and he
turned to Chamberlain. He said, you had the choice between
war and designer. You chose designer, Yet you will have war.
President Trump has restored the bust of Churchill to the
Oval Office, but do you think he really understands history?

Speaker 1 (00:32):
And that's what was all it took for him to
lose a very cushy job. Peter says the comments were
very disappointing, in fact, deeply disappointing. We've got the head
of politics at the University of Otarget with me today,
James Headley.

Speaker 3 (00:45):
Good morning to you, Morning morning, Andrew.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
So was that really a sackable offense?

Speaker 3 (00:53):
I think usually it wouldn't be. But Peters was aware
that Trump is so sensitive about anybody questioning him that
he obviously got fright and thought he had to demonstrate something.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
Many people have said. The thing is, if you'd said
that as a politician. If you'd say that as a
New Zealand citizen, as he said that as an ex
Prime minister, it would all be fine. But the problem
is now he's a diplomat. Is that true?

Speaker 3 (01:18):
Yeah, I mean I agree with that. It was at
Chatham House, so we have something called Chatham House rules,
which normally means that you can say what you reckoned,
it can't be printed or broadcast. But this was actually
a public event. It was broadcast fairly obscure event, not
usually getting focused from across the globe, but somebody picked

(01:40):
up on it and he identified himself as the British
High commission as the New Zealand High Commissioner, So it
was public and as you say, it was something that
as a politician he would have been quite free to
see such things. And he was a politician, and I
think he did step out of his role there. There's
a bit of a it wasn't ye.

Speaker 1 (02:00):
Absolutely, It's a time and place thing, isn't it. And
that wasn't the time and that wasn't the place it appears.

Speaker 3 (02:06):
Yeah, I mean what we have to do is distinguished
with what he said and the fact that he said
it as High commission in this sensitive time. I mean,
I agree with what he said, and I think many
people do, probably including in the government. Here. It's as
you said the time, all the sensitivity, and we saw
publicly how President Trump even humiliates those who seem to

(02:27):
challenge him over Ukraine. So I think Whenstan Peters felt
for New Zealand's interests, he had to do a public
act in response.

Speaker 1 (02:36):
All right, well, let's move on, and who and what
do we need out of the next High commissioner?

Speaker 3 (02:43):
Well, possibly a career diplomat, because I think this is
the challenge when you have somebody who as a former politician,
or sometimes you have people from other aspects of public
life who maybe sort of slip into modes that they're
not trained to do. So I wouldn't be surprised to
see if least a person from emphat or somebody who
served in kind of key roles elsewhere.

Speaker 1 (03:06):
All right, James, enjoy your weekend. Thank you for joining
us early this morning. That is James Hidley, who is
the head of politics at the Otaga University.

Speaker 3 (03:14):
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