Belief politicians should have skin in the public health system game.
Health workers have signed an open letter asking MPs to voluntarily waive private healthcare for themselves and their families while in office.
It says healthcare becomes personal when politicians rely on the same EDs, waitlists, and services as everyone else.
Former Health NZ Chair Rob Campbell told Andrew Dickens MPs won’t give up their healthcare any more than they’d turn down their next pay rise, but it does highlight a point.
He says that it highlights the fact that if you don’t deal with the problem, you’re probably not going to effectively deal with the problem.
LISTEN ABOVE
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Should MPs have to use the public health system. That
is a challenge from a group of health workers who
are calling out politicians saying they should have to rely
on the systems that they reside over so they can
personally experience the consequences of any decision they make.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
So.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Rob Campbell is the former chair of Tafata Order Health
New Zealand, and he comes to the program now good
one is here. Rob, thank you once again for getting
up early for us.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Marina Andrew, it's not early for some of us.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Is good on you? Is it fair? Is it fair
to force MPs or to ask MPs to use the
public health system?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Look at they're not going to do it anymore than
they're going to turn down their next pay rise. But
the call that's been made, I think does highlight that
not just MPs, but many people do live in a
bit of a cocoon from the major problems of our
public health system because they've been able to opt out
to a large extent through the insurance that they hold.
(00:59):
About of New Zealanders do hold health insurance, so it's
no surprise that many MPs do. So it highlights the
fact that if you don't have the problem, you probably
are not going to effectively deal with the problem. So
I support the call to that extent. Is it practical?
Don't think so. But it highlights the point that people
are living in a cocoon and most people, still a
(01:22):
slight majority I believe, are fully reliant on the public system.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Well, did the open letter writers not go far enough?
You know, because senior bureaucrats in the public service system,
should they also have been asked to rely solely on
the public system since they are making decisions? Should the
opposition also been included in their call?
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Oh? Look, I think it's certainly the call should have
been and I believe it was directed to all MPs,
And it made me think. I wondered, you know, when
I was on to FATO or how many of the
senior staff or other directors held health insurance, because I'd
be very disappointed if they did. But when I think
about it, it's quite possible they did. And there's no
question that your own circumstance as AULTI your viewers things.
(02:01):
So I think that that point is very valid and
it's a problem for the public health, for the public
health system absolutely.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
In fact, that was my next question into people at health.
New Zealand use private healthcare. You can't really answer it,
but I'm pretty sure they did.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
So.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Look, look, here's the thing. The private system works in
conjunction with the public system, and together they confront the
problems that are facing New Zealanders in terms of their
health care. The private care system is beneficial. Should it
be demonized like this?
Speaker 2 (02:32):
There's no point in demonizing it. I fully understand I
don't have health insurance, I should say, but I fully
understand why many people do, and for a long time
a large part of our health service. In fact, even
right from the GP, we have a privatized health service system.
We don't have a fully public system. We may think
we want one, but we don't have it, and so
(02:54):
the private system is an important part of it. But
I think one of the issues we've got in New
Zealand at the moment is that it doesn't help to
demonize the public system. The public system does a huge
number of good things, which the health workers have made
this call fully understand, and many people get fantastic service
from the public system. So it's public system actually needs
some love rather than punishment. And I think if I
(03:17):
was the boss of a health insurance company. Every time
to far to Wora got attacked or the public health
system got attacked, I think that's good. That's another few
people coming in the front door of my business. So
we do have to be careful about that. We don't
want to demonize either side of it. But the truth is,
if you're making big decisions for something like a public
(03:37):
health system and you yourself are insulated from it, it
will impact your decision making. There's no way it doesn't.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
You had to work with these people, You had to
work with these senior ministers. Are they, as these open
meta writers say, out of touch with just how dire
the situation is in the health system is? Are they
in fact insulated perform it or did they understand?
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Oh, look, there's no question that they're insulated from it
by the very nature of their job, the way they
do their job, what they've paid, what they're surrounded by,
the advice that they've got in their ears all the time.
There's no question that they're isolated. Then it is a
problem for our representative democracy. When people are elected. On
the day they're elected, they probably do represent some part
(04:17):
of the electorate, but pretty quickly once they get into
that hot ass atmosphere down there in Wellington. They do
lose touch, there's no question of it.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Rob, I thank you for your time. There's Rob Campbell,
the former Health New Zealand chair.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
For more from Early Edition with Ryan Bridge. Listen live
to News Talks. It'd be from five am weekdays, or
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
Should MPs have to use the public health system. That
is a challenge from a group of health workers who
are calling out politicians saying they should have to rely
on the systems that they reside over so they can
personally experience the consequences of any decision they make.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
So.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Rob Campbell is the former chair of Tafata Order Health
New Zealand, and he comes to the program now good
one is here. Rob, thank you once again for getting
up early for us.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
Marina Andrew, it's not early for some of us.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Is good on you? Is it fair? Is it fair
to force MPs or to ask MPs to use the
public health system?
Speaker 2 (00:37):
Look at they're not going to do it anymore than
they're going to turn down their next pay rise. But
the call that's been made, I think does highlight that
not just MPs, but many people do live in a
bit of a cocoon from the major problems of our
public health system because they've been able to opt out
to a large extent through the insurance that they hold.
(00:59):
About of New Zealanders do hold health insurance, so it's
no surprise that many MPs do. So it highlights the
fact that if you don't have the problem, you probably
are not going to effectively deal with the problem. So
I support the call to that extent. Is it practical?
Don't think so. But it highlights the point that people
are living in a cocoon and most people, still a
(01:22):
slight majority I believe, are fully reliant on the public system.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Well, did the open letter writers not go far enough?
You know, because senior bureaucrats in the public service system,
should they also have been asked to rely solely on
the public system since they are making decisions? Should the
opposition also been included in their call?
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Oh? Look, I think it's certainly the call should have
been and I believe it was directed to all MPs,
And it made me think. I wondered, you know, when
I was on to FATO or how many of the
senior staff or other directors held health insurance, because I'd
be very disappointed if they did. But when I think
about it, it's quite possible they did. And there's no
question that your own circumstance as AULTI your viewers things.
(02:01):
So I think that that point is very valid and
it's a problem for the public health, for the public
health system absolutely.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
In fact, that was my next question into people at health.
New Zealand use private healthcare. You can't really answer it,
but I'm pretty sure they did.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
So.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Look, look, here's the thing. The private system works in
conjunction with the public system, and together they confront the
problems that are facing New Zealanders in terms of their
health care. The private care system is beneficial. Should it
be demonized like this?
Speaker 2 (02:32):
There's no point in demonizing it. I fully understand I
don't have health insurance, I should say, but I fully
understand why many people do, and for a long time
a large part of our health service. In fact, even
right from the GP, we have a privatized health service system.
We don't have a fully public system. We may think
we want one, but we don't have it, and so
(02:54):
the private system is an important part of it. But
I think one of the issues we've got in New
Zealand at the moment is that it doesn't help to
demonize the public system. The public system does a huge
number of good things, which the health workers have made
this call fully understand, and many people get fantastic service
from the public system. So it's public system actually needs
some love rather than punishment. And I think if I
(03:17):
was the boss of a health insurance company. Every time
to far to Wora got attacked or the public health
system got attacked, I think that's good. That's another few
people coming in the front door of my business. So
we do have to be careful about that. We don't
want to demonize either side of it. But the truth is,
if you're making big decisions for something like a public
(03:37):
health system and you yourself are insulated from it, it
will impact your decision making. There's no way it doesn't.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
You had to work with these people, You had to
work with these senior ministers. Are they, as these open
meta writers say, out of touch with just how dire
the situation is in the health system is? Are they
in fact insulated perform it or did they understand?
Speaker 2 (03:56):
Oh, look, there's no question that they're insulated from it
by the very nature of their job, the way they
do their job, what they've paid, what they're surrounded by,
the advice that they've got in their ears all the time.
There's no question that they're isolated. Then it is a
problem for our representative democracy. When people are elected. On
the day they're elected, they probably do represent some part
(04:17):
of the electorate, but pretty quickly once they get into
that hot ass atmosphere down there in Wellington. They do
lose touch, there's no question of it.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Rob, I thank you for your time. There's Rob Campbell,
the former Health New Zealand chair.
Speaker 2 (04:29):
For more from Early Edition with Ryan Bridge. Listen live
to News Talks. It'd be from five am weekdays, or
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com