Alex Witten-Hannah: lawyer on the case where Mt Eden villa owners were ordered to remove double-glazed windows by Auckland Council

The owners of a Mt Eden villa has voiced disapproval after Auckland Council demanded they remove double-glazed windows from their house to comply with heritage rules - claiming the order is 'expensive' and 'unnecessary'.

The new windows have aluminium frames instead of the traditional timber frames - and open up to the outsides, rather than side upwards like the traditional sash windows.

Alex Witten-Hannah, a lawyer representing the homeowners, hopes the council will take a 'common-sense' approach and back off.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
It Now, planning rules are back in the spotlight with

(00:01):
the case of a Mount Eden villa and its windows.
The council is forcing the owner of this villa to
take out his newly refurbished windows because they don't comply
with the heritage protections in the area, because the new
windows have aluminium frames when the traditional ones have timber frames,
and the new windows open to the outside rather than
slide upwards like the traditional sash windows. Alex Witten Hannah

(00:24):
is the lawyer for the homeowner and with us. Now,
Hey Alex, hello.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
Heather or here you're going to give me a brutal grilling.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
Who told you? This?

Speaker 2 (00:32):
Is?

Speaker 1 (00:32):
This what they say behind my back?

Speaker 2 (00:34):
It is exactly. I've got to be prepared for it.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
Oh well, you're not going to get a brutal grilling
in fact, but I'll talk to Sam about that later.
He shouldn't give away the secrets of the game. Do
you accept, Alex, that these are not heritage windows and
like clearly are not heritage windows.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
Well, devil blazing, of course is not a heritage window.

Speaker 1 (00:53):
Don't come at.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
Mean with that.

Speaker 1 (00:55):
You know they're not heritage. They're aluminium and they open
on those hinges to the outside.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
The wooden frame around the windows is the original wooden framing,
probably however many years old, seventy five years old or something.
It's the original wooden frames. It's only what holds the
glass together to enable double glazing. That's thin aluminium strips.
You can't see them from the road effectively.

Speaker 1 (01:21):
I see, I don't have a problem with the thin eleme.
I'm just going to point out, though, you can get
double glazed sash windows and timber right because of the idea, yes.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
Any idea. What the cost of that is. It's a
exrohibitive cost of most people.

Speaker 1 (01:34):
Not if you actually parallel and pulled them from Australia
via a particular company. I can send to you, mate
if you want to, just as today do his own
research on the Googles. But Alex, the problem with them
is not so much the aluminium. It's the fact that
the sash windows obviously slide upwards. But these guys have
a hinge and they open like like a cheap hostel window,
don't they They look hideous.

Speaker 2 (01:56):
Well, only if you're peering at them, and if you're
driving down the road or walk long the footpath, you
don't see them.

Speaker 1 (02:01):
Oh, I would see it would offend my eyes. I
know what a villa looks like, don't you.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
Oh well, in that case, we have to put up
a one point eight meter fence, says of right, and
then you won't see it.

Speaker 1 (02:09):
You won't be trust You're not allowed to put up
a one point eight meter fence, are you?

Speaker 2 (02:13):
Of course you are. You love to allow tell them
to one point eight meters without approval?

Speaker 1 (02:18):
What about a nice hedge, like a good leafy suburb edge.

Speaker 2 (02:22):
Oh well, I think maybe some fast growing bamboo would
do the track, and that would avoid people peering in
and getting offended by the fact that the windows open
about three or four inches.

Speaker 1 (02:34):
How much was it going to cost to retrofit them
to the actual to look heritage.

Speaker 2 (02:39):
Have no idea except that I did ask a builder
last night, and he told me that you can spend
tens of thousands of dollars doing that.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
Oh yeah, no, absolutely you can. But how many tens.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
More tens than it would be with it? I can
tell you this for sure that my client had he
been told by the retrofit company that he'd have to
get a consent and probably wouldn't get it because the
windows open outwards a few inches or centimeters. He wouldn't
have done it, and I think a lot of other
people in Auckland with old villas aren't going to do

(03:10):
it now that Auckland Council has made it clear that
they have to go through all the costs and humbug
of a resource consent application, no assurance that it's going
to be granted, and then pay a very large amount
of money for these fanciful wooden frames.

Speaker 1 (03:27):
Alex, what are you guys going to do? What's the plan?

Speaker 2 (03:32):
Well, I'm hoping that given that the Minister has called
what the council is doing nuts and that's why the
government is replacing the RIMA, that I'm hoping that the
council staff who are responsible for this, it's not the mayor,
it's not the CEO, it's some lowly staff have got

(03:53):
the idea. I'm hoping that they will realize the common
sense approaches to etch their back off. If they don't
and they go ahead an issue abatement notices, then one
we can appeal to the Environment Court and then the
whole Environment Court scenario plays out a great cost to
the taxpayer and cost to my client. I know but

(04:14):
it'd be environment by the.

Speaker 1 (04:17):
Time he's finished paying for you. He could have just
retrofitted his own windows, couldn't he.

Speaker 2 (04:22):
I don't charge like that. Oh no no, I'm very reasonable, Alex.

Speaker 1 (04:27):
It's good to talk to you. Thank you, mate. Look
after yourself. Alex Witten Hannah lawyer for the Mount Out
and Mount Eden Villa owners. For more from Hither Duplessy
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