Andrew Little: Former SIS Minister responds to allegations of CCP interference in New Zealand

Former SIS Minister Andrew Little says China's relationship with its diaspora community is often intense.

Stuff has released a documentary covering allegations of Chinese Communist Party influence and interference operations in New Zealand.

It comes as the Chinese Premier visits New Zealand for the first time in seven years.

Andrew Little says New Zealand is no different to any other country with a significant Chinese population.

"The Communist Party, through its various machines and organs and organisations, stays in close contact with a lot of those people."

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Chinese premiere Lee Chiung has arrived in the country to
pomp and ceremony, including a gun salute in Wellington. He's
met with the Prime Minister. He loved dinner with the
Prime Minister tonight. His visit has coincided with the release
of a new documentary about Chinese interference and espionage in
New Zealand, including suggestions that former National MPs Young Young
was a Chinese spy. Andrew Little is a former minister

(00:21):
responsible for the GCSPN is with us. Now, hey, Andrew
was that National MP A spy.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Well, I can't comment on any of those sorts of
things that if has track record as well known, he
was associated with a PLA before he came to New Zealand.
He educated some of their senior officers and then he
came out here. But look, the reality is we know

(00:49):
that China and it's a relationship with this diaspora community
is a very often a very intense one. We're no
different to every other country where there is a signal
again Chinese diaspora. The Communist Party, through its various machines
and organs and organizations, stays in close contact with a
lot of those people.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
If he was a spy, would you, as the Minister
for the spies, be told that he was a spy.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
The Minister gets told of operations that the agencies are doing.
Don't necessarily get told of individuals who might be the
subject of operations. But if there is a risk, for example,
to Parliament or to the beehive or something like that,
then the Minister would be advised of that.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
This documentary claims that China's foreign interference is corroding our democracy?
Is it.

Speaker 2 (01:45):
If you think that the way China conducts it's nothing
much as foreign relations more it's a relationship with his
diaspea community. We're here, for example, in New Zealand a
very strong Chinese media, a lot of it is very
closely l I two and associated with media organizations in
Beijing and indeed to the Chinese Communist Party, and that

(02:08):
is the Chinese media or New Zealand is the principal
source of information to a lot of the Chinese diaspora here,
often to the exclusion of local New Zealand media. So
it is very influential. And if the principal line coming
in that media is the line coming out of Beijing,
then that's going to have an impact on the way

(02:30):
people living here are going to think about and make
decisions about what's happening here.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
Stuff which is behind this documentary claims that the documentary
is going to ramp up tensions, Will it or is
this exactly the kind of thing that the Chinese actually expect.

Speaker 2 (02:42):
Us to do. I don't know what they expect. That
the Chinese are very gay, very brittle about criticism, whether not,
of course attendant, I don't know. I think the most
important thing is that we ought to have a good conversation,
not just about China. There are other countries who engage
in foreign interference, including in New Zealand, and it's important

(03:06):
that we go into international relationship or foreign relationships with
other countries with our eyes wide open. And this is
about making sure that we're all.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
Listen Andrew without naming names right set aside there into
influence on their own diaspora, and without naming names, are
the Chinese trying to interfere with our democracy at all?

Speaker 2 (03:26):
The Chinese. The way the Chinese conduct themselves in most
countries is to make sure that when governments of the
day are making decisions that bear upon Chinese interests, that
those decisions are the most favorable to or in the
best interest software that does happen.

Speaker 1 (03:45):
Okay, Andrew, thank you, I appreciate your time. As always,
it's Andrew Little, former minister responsible for the SIS and
the GCSB. For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen
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