August 4, 2025 • 6 mins
The Government's pushed forward in overhauling NCEA, and it's sparked debate among experts.
The Government wants to phase out the school qualification system in five years, replacing level one with a literacy and numeracy test, and level two and three with Education Certificates.
Newstalk ZB senior political correspondent Barry Soper unpacks these changes - and reveals why a change to the system is overdue.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Right, Barrisoper, Senior political correspondence with US Hey barring right afternoon,
Heather Erica Stanford smashing it out of the park. I mean,
she's not stopping.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
This is a significant, certainly a significant change in education.
I mean, the last time there was one as big
as this was back in two thousand and two, which
was when they brought in nca and the minister then
was none other than our old favorite Treva Mallard who
played Barry Manilow to the protests down at Parliament during COVID.
(00:29):
So yeah, we can blame him for that, along with
a number of other things. But look, certainly NCAA was
indeterminate for certainly for employers didn't quite understand the pass
passes that were given assess and then they could be
traded off with other subjects.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
So any parent or a lot of students, most of
the honest students, and they will tell you the kids
are gaming it. They gamed it. Parents will tell how
their children are gaming it. One of our colleagues has
a son who gamed it, so she pulled a daughter
out of it and put her daughter in Cambridge.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Yeah, we'll stop the daughter. Do you know this essentially
is going back to what it was in the olden
days when I was at school and we had school
certificate and university entrance and you know, five subjects you
had to pass four. But it's exactly the same as
what you've got to do here. Get at least fifty
percent in each subject. At least you've got a good
yardstick for employers to look at and say, have they
(01:29):
got school? See have they got you were? What were
their past marks, what were their strong points? What were
the weak points? You know, we can't have this namby
Pamby stand in education where you know, we don't like
winners and losers. We just like winners.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Yeah, well, we're just like a We're just like people
who turn up. Apparently, Yeah, I see those those complaints
against Ozzie Malcolm have been basically substantiated by the cops.
Seventh boy.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Well, yes, these were allegations that were made between well,
they occurred between allegedly between nineteen ninety two and twenty eighteen.
And I've got to say for people like me who
knew Ossy Malcolm very well when he was in parliament,
he was out of parliament nineteen eighty four with a
snap election. He was the Immigration Minister. Interestingly, that allowed
(02:15):
the spring Box to come into this country. He issued
the visas and he was a big supporter of Rob Muldoon.
But look, he's an extraordinarily likable bloke. But clearly, you
know this is a terrible cloud that now hangs over him.
He died last September and you know allegations then first
surfaced and now they've done a review of it and
(02:36):
released under the Official Information Act. We see that. Look,
these charges, if they were now looked at yet again,
would likely have stood up.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Hey is Winston Peter's going to the Cox for the speech.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
No he's not. He was here today and this was
sixty years today since they signed off the Free Association
with the Corck Islands. That's where Cork Islanders get New
Zealand passports New Zealand citizenship. So it was in nineteen
sixty five that this was signed off and Winston Peters was.
(03:11):
You know, he's still obviously annoyed at the Corks and
their Prime minister for doing that deal with China because
as part of the Free Association agreement, the agreement is
that they should consult regularly with New Zealand on issues
like this and this was a fairly comprehensive agreement that
(03:33):
the Cork Islands made with China. And we're still in
the dark and Winston Peters is withholding money from the
Cork Islands and there's no indication at the moment when
that money will be restored. But the Prime Minister there,
Mark Brown, he's not telling us anything. He hasn't made
any public statement. So I think whilst they're in that situation,
(03:53):
there'll be a lot of Cork Islanders. I think that'll
be quite upset about this.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
This plead to understand Chris Luxe's humanity a little desperate,
doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Well you know this, Sylvia Wood made it at the
party's annual conference over the weekend. Yeah. Well it's probably
her pointing out a side of Chris Luxon that a
lot of people don't see what he's as a business.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Does that even mean his humanity?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
What she's talking about, clearly is that we see that
the hard side of Chris Luxon, and there is a softer.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Side, a hard side it's not hard enough. Well, what
did you see a wishy washy in the middle.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Well no, some would say that, but look, I think
if you look at the A and Z chief economists.
The Group and Z chief Economist Richard yet Singer. He
did a look at the New Zealand economy and believes
that we're even with that fifteen percent terror from the
United States, we will be looking much better next year.
And that'll be the hope, obviously of Chris Luxen. The
(04:54):
point that Sylvia Wood was making is that look, look
beyond what you see at the moment, which is hardline
business sort of approach to politics, and then you'll see
another side and his popularity will increase. And I actually
happen to agree with her. I think being Prime Minister
in this period, in the last eighteen months has been
(05:15):
an appalling situation, very tough to be in, and you know,
I think, like you said, they should have been tougher
and they should have been in a number of areas.
But I think you're seeing you know, the point that
Yt Singer made was that inflated sorry interest rates, when
they're low, they encourage business and they put a new
(05:36):
injection into the economy and that's what we hopefully will
see the proceeds of next year.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Barry, thank you appreciate it. Barry Soper, Senior Political correspondent
here that my pick for the next National Party leader
is Chris Bishop. So Barry's shaking his head. I just
want you to know because he's just like, why are
people doing this to Chris Luxon. He's articulate, decisive intelligence,
quick off the mark. Thank you for that. For more
from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to News Talks
(06:03):
at B from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
Right, Barrisoper, Senior political correspondence with US Hey barring right afternoon,
Heather Erica Stanford smashing it out of the park. I mean,
she's not stopping.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
This is a significant, certainly a significant change in education.
I mean, the last time there was one as big
as this was back in two thousand and two, which
was when they brought in nca and the minister then
was none other than our old favorite Treva Mallard who
played Barry Manilow to the protests down at Parliament during COVID.
(00:29):
So yeah, we can blame him for that, along with
a number of other things. But look, certainly NCAA was
indeterminate for certainly for employers didn't quite understand the pass
passes that were given assess and then they could be
traded off with other subjects.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
So any parent or a lot of students, most of
the honest students, and they will tell you the kids
are gaming it. They gamed it. Parents will tell how
their children are gaming it. One of our colleagues has
a son who gamed it, so she pulled a daughter
out of it and put her daughter in Cambridge.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Yeah, we'll stop the daughter. Do you know this essentially
is going back to what it was in the olden
days when I was at school and we had school
certificate and university entrance and you know, five subjects you
had to pass four. But it's exactly the same as
what you've got to do here. Get at least fifty
percent in each subject. At least you've got a good
yardstick for employers to look at and say, have they
(01:29):
got school? See have they got you were? What were
their past marks, what were their strong points? What were
the weak points? You know, we can't have this namby
Pamby stand in education where you know, we don't like
winners and losers. We just like winners.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Yeah, well, we're just like a We're just like people
who turn up. Apparently, Yeah, I see those those complaints
against Ozzie Malcolm have been basically substantiated by the cops.
Seventh boy.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Well, yes, these were allegations that were made between well,
they occurred between allegedly between nineteen ninety two and twenty eighteen.
And I've got to say for people like me who
knew Ossy Malcolm very well when he was in parliament,
he was out of parliament nineteen eighty four with a
snap election. He was the Immigration Minister. Interestingly, that allowed
(02:15):
the spring Box to come into this country. He issued
the visas and he was a big supporter of Rob Muldoon.
But look, he's an extraordinarily likable bloke. But clearly, you
know this is a terrible cloud that now hangs over him.
He died last September and you know allegations then first
surfaced and now they've done a review of it and
(02:36):
released under the Official Information Act. We see that. Look,
these charges, if they were now looked at yet again,
would likely have stood up.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
Hey is Winston Peter's going to the Cox for the speech.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
No he's not. He was here today and this was
sixty years today since they signed off the Free Association
with the Corck Islands. That's where Cork Islanders get New
Zealand passports New Zealand citizenship. So it was in nineteen
sixty five that this was signed off and Winston Peters was.
(03:11):
You know, he's still obviously annoyed at the Corks and
their Prime minister for doing that deal with China because
as part of the Free Association agreement, the agreement is
that they should consult regularly with New Zealand on issues
like this and this was a fairly comprehensive agreement that
(03:33):
the Cork Islands made with China. And we're still in
the dark and Winston Peters is withholding money from the
Cork Islands and there's no indication at the moment when
that money will be restored. But the Prime Minister there,
Mark Brown, he's not telling us anything. He hasn't made
any public statement. So I think whilst they're in that situation,
(03:53):
there'll be a lot of Cork Islanders. I think that'll
be quite upset about this.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
This plead to understand Chris Luxe's humanity a little desperate,
doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (04:03):
Well you know this, Sylvia Wood made it at the
party's annual conference over the weekend. Yeah. Well it's probably
her pointing out a side of Chris Luxon that a
lot of people don't see what he's as a business.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
Does that even mean his humanity?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
What she's talking about, clearly is that we see that
the hard side of Chris Luxon, and there is a softer.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
Side, a hard side it's not hard enough. Well, what
did you see a wishy washy in the middle.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Well no, some would say that, but look, I think
if you look at the A and Z chief economists.
The Group and Z chief Economist Richard yet Singer. He
did a look at the New Zealand economy and believes
that we're even with that fifteen percent terror from the
United States, we will be looking much better next year.
And that'll be the hope, obviously of Chris Luxen. The
(04:54):
point that Sylvia Wood was making is that look, look
beyond what you see at the moment, which is hardline
business sort of approach to politics, and then you'll see
another side and his popularity will increase. And I actually
happen to agree with her. I think being Prime Minister
in this period, in the last eighteen months has been
(05:15):
an appalling situation, very tough to be in, and you know,
I think, like you said, they should have been tougher
and they should have been in a number of areas.
But I think you're seeing you know, the point that
Yt Singer made was that inflated sorry interest rates, when
they're low, they encourage business and they put a new
(05:36):
injection into the economy and that's what we hopefully will
see the proceeds of next year.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Barry, thank you appreciate it. Barry Soper, Senior Political correspondent
here that my pick for the next National Party leader
is Chris Bishop. So Barry's shaking his head. I just
want you to know because he's just like, why are
people doing this to Chris Luxon. He's articulate, decisive intelligence,
quick off the mark. Thank you for that. For more
from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to News Talks
(06:03):
at B from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio.
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