Barry Soper: Newstalk ZB senior political correspondent on whether New Zealand will stay in the Paris Accord

There's been plenty of debate about New Zealand's future in the Paris Agreement, following some comments made by David Seymour.

The ACT leader wants New Zealand to pull out of the global climate agreement, unless the targets are realistic.

Newstalk ZB senior political correspondent Barry Soper says Luxon won't withdraw from the agreement - at least not until the 2026 election is over.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
If you haven't heard the yarn about the guy who
got struck by lightning yesterday, stand by because I'm going
to tell you that before the top of the hour.
Right now, it's thirteen away from five and Barry Soper,
Senior Political Correspondence with us A Barry.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
Good afternoon. Hither. I quite like the bridge in Wellington,
the sort of art nouveaux. You know it's it is
it art? It's a bit different, yeah? Is that? Why
is that?

Speaker 1 (00:22):
Is that the same reason that you wore bow ties
for thirty five years? It's just a bit different. Actually,
with that statement, I think we've just realized that nothing
that you say from here on it about whether something
looks cool or not.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
We just I'll tell you what. When I was wearing
those bow tires, and you're absolutely right, you wouldn't believe
how many politicians, including cabinet ministers, came up to me
and said, I wish, I wish I had the courage
to wear a bow tie. And I wore them because
in Wellington, your tires fly all over the place. Bow
tires were quite convenient.

Speaker 1 (00:55):
Y yep, okay, cool anyway, So have you had a
look at the new Zealand Initiative Report in the number
of ministers ministries.

Speaker 2 (01:00):
Yes, I have, and it is interesting and when you
look at it, you go for goodness. I mean, one
of the things that I would say is that eighty
one ministerial portfolios is patently ridiculous. You look at MB
for example, it has twenty different ministers, so you can

(01:21):
imagine making a decision. You've got to consult with all
your fellow ministers and arrive at a decision. That's why
government comes to a standstill at time twenty eight ministers
and forty three departments. Now we know that Brian Roach
his ambition is to streamline the public service, to reduce

(01:44):
the departments, and I think that's certainly around the corner.
But they cited countries like Ireland and Singapore as proof
that you can effectively operate with between fifteen and twenty
ministers and portfolios, and they're saying New Zealand should certainly

(02:04):
cut back. But if you look at those countries as
I have done, and I thought, well, you know they're
different to New Zealand. Because New Zealand we've got MMP,
we've got to accommodate other parties within our ministries and
you know they well, certainly Singapore doesn't have to it's
a one party state, but certainly Ireland and Norway they

(02:26):
are coalition governments, so they can do so with fewer,
many fewer ministers than what we've got here. So you know,
the argument I think is a good one. I went
back over ministries just in recent years. The long E government,
the long Ey cabinet that was forty years ago, they
had twenty ministers and twenty ministries, so that's incredible and

(02:51):
forty years ago, so many fewer. It started to grow
after MMP in nineteen ninety six. Of course, the Clerk government,
it had twenty ministers though, but then they started appointing
ministers outside of cabinet. There are eight ministers in her
government outside of cabinet. So that's where the problem has
arisen that we have bent over to accommodate other parties.

(03:17):
But you imagine if you've got a big caucus and
you're the National Party for example. They don't have such
a big caucus, but if you did have, you had
to keep your caucus happy, and dolling out ministries is
one way to do that. If you haven't got the
ability to do that, there's a lot of there would
be a lot of talk going on behind the scene.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
Well yeah, I mean that's kind of what happens it.
That's what happens in the UK where the executive is
so small in contrast to the size of the party
and so you've always got the backbenches causing trouble out. Listen,
do you reckon National can say right now that they're
going to stay in the Paris Courd and that's their policy.
But what do you reckon happens after the election?

Speaker 2 (03:55):
Well, yes, I think the side of the election they
will stay in the Paris Accord. And nobody's withdrawn from
the Paris Cord yet. The USS, Well I was just
going to say, but the US, they've done it twice
under Donald Trump, and they're formal withdrawal takes place in
January next year. That's the second one. But look, the

(04:16):
Paris Accord. I heard Petty Gluckman on with you, and
I think what he's essentially saying is that it's better
than nothing. So have you got people pulling out of
it or countries pulling out of it, then you're left
with really nothing. Although the Paris Accord, the goals that
are set within it are very very high. Luxton was

(04:38):
asked today what his position was and he said that
pulling out of Paris would be the quickest way to
hurt New Zealand farmers. But he seemed to argue it
on the basis that of image that if you're off
the shelves in some countries you produce, you're outside the
Paris Accord, then the people will shop elsewhere and other

(05:01):
countries would export. But I really don't think that's going
to affect them in that way. I think the Paris
Accord is more damaging to farmers because of its very
nature and what it imposes on farmers and what they
have to do.

Speaker 1 (05:14):
Well, that's a fair argument, right, And I feel as
if you have to do the costs of each right,
is it more exp like do we take a great
is there a greater loss if we pull out? Or
is there a greater loss by staying in? And at
the moment, I mean, jeez, Barry, you've got people who
can't turn the heater on in their houses when Huntly
fires and that's the because of climate.

Speaker 2 (05:32):
Initiative, and that's the problem. And is the worth it
for us? No, it's not and it's certainly not worth
its importing coal from Indonesia when we could have been
mining it here because we need it. We don't have
the alternatives at the market.

Speaker 1 (05:46):
Yeah, Barry, thank you very much. Appreciate it, very sober,
Senior political correspondent.

Speaker 2 (05:50):
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