Barry Soper: Newstalk ZB senior political correspondent on Nicola Willis offering to debate Ruth Richardson

The Taxpayers' Union has raised concerns about Nicola Willis' skills as a Finance Minister - and one of her predecessors has expressed interest in a debate.

Willis challenged Ruth Richardson to a debate yesterday, after Richardson criticised the Government's fiscal track. 

Richardson's agreed - but a date's yet to be set. 

Newstalk ZB senior political correspondent Barry Soper explained further.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Berries in the house. Berry, good afternoon.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
Well, yeah I could be in the house. I was
down at Wellington. But I see that if you want
to go and visit and watch the proceedings, you're not
allowed to for the rest of the year. As you say, Ryan,
it is a pity because a lot of people do
turn up to have a look at the politicians behave
and it's because of those your bows yesterday, the pro

(00:23):
Palestinian lot. They were outside as well, so why on
if they had to.

Speaker 1 (00:28):
Take it inside attention seeking?

Speaker 2 (00:30):
Well, totally. I'm surprised that Jerry Browney didn't actually clear
the public gallery immediately.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
Can you remember the gallery being closed like that?

Speaker 2 (00:38):
Yeah, it has been closed before.

Speaker 1 (00:39):
It has been closed before, but hopefully not for too
much longer. I think they said till Christmas. So the
Green Sea a sinister side in scrapping the rm A.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
I mean it's incredible when you you know, arguably the
most significant attack on red tape and cumbersome rules and
regulations that we've seen, like Chris Boship said, in a generation.
But the Greens who took a four percent dive in
the one used varying poll this week, we're on the

(01:09):
feed in Parliament today suggesting something sinister he is co
Green's leader Marlama Davidson pointing her in the farious finger
at Chris Luxon.

Speaker 3 (01:19):
Was any analysis done as to whether ministers or MPs
would benefit from this? And if not, why not? And
answer to the first question, we haven't done that. Does
he have confidence then that no ministers or government members
hold consents that will benefit from these blanket extensions? And

(01:40):
if so, on what basis.

Speaker 2 (01:43):
I have confidence that we manage our conflicts appropriately?

Speaker 4 (01:46):
Point of order of funeral sham Jones.

Speaker 3 (01:47):
Not only was a wild allegation made about members of
this side of the house, then further.

Speaker 4 (01:52):
Unproven, reckless statements were permitted.

Speaker 3 (01:54):
There was mostly an inference in a question, but not
a wild allegation, and I think it was adequately answered.

Speaker 1 (02:03):
And what a waste of time.

Speaker 2 (02:05):
Well, you know, honestly talk about conspiracy theories as if
you had set about taking apart this massive piece of
legislation and going hang on, you've got you're waiting for
a consent your minister is.

Speaker 1 (02:20):
Mean, it's ridiculous, pat But also does she assume that
Labor was guilty of the same crime when they took there's.

Speaker 2 (02:26):
A place, Yeah, not as successfully.

Speaker 1 (02:29):
And was Labor really kept in the dark on these
changes to begin with?

Speaker 2 (02:32):
Well, that's what they said. They've said they were kept
in the dark. But I'd say hang on a mo
to that one. The bill's architect, Chris Bishop has said
he consulted with Labor on the charges or on the
changes he's made. Have a listened to Carmel Seppaloni on
that one.

Speaker 4 (02:50):
He has had a number of briefings. You know, I'll
give him that, but I mean it was dropped at
one pm yesterday. But I mean it was dropped at
one pm yesterday and then now all of a sudden,
you know, we've still got to take it away and
consider it. So some of what's in there we expected
and we need a chance to be able to look
over it thoroughly.

Speaker 2 (03:09):
That was Carmel Seppaloni on our opposite number are in
z this morning on their political panel. The idea that
they poach from us, of course the Ginny and Mark,
which I think is much more entertaining. But talk about
having your Christmas cake and eating it too. I mean
I did edit twice that she said it because I

(03:30):
wanted you to basically hear her coming back on herself.
I mean, what more did they expect a lot? Obviously,
are like credit for having a look at it while
they were in government and then sitting on their hands.
Honestly exactly talk about lose the argument.

Speaker 3 (03:47):
Although I do.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
Think there's some mirit and politicians holding far unlike sometimes
I like it when they don't give you an immediate
hot take and immediate put. You know where they say,
I'm going to go away and I'm going to read
this properly and come back with a view.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
You know, that's a such because you don't know what
you've been briefed on.

Speaker 1 (04:06):
I suppose in this case that might be true. Now,
this debate between Nichola Willison Ruth Richardson is probably going
to happen next week.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
Well we don't know, do we, But certainly Nichola Willis
has thrown down the gauntlet. I liked her analysis on
at the beginning of the program because it is right
the far right. A lot of people don't remember that
not only is Ruth Richardson the chair of the Taxpayers
Union that's setting out to take Nikola Willis apart, she

(04:33):
was the architect of the mother of all budgets. She
was the first woman finance minister to present a budget
in this country and it's one that will never forget.
I mean, if you only have to look at what
she did in that budget, she cut welfare benefits, the
unemployment benefit by about twenty five percent. That in those

(04:56):
days was fourteen dollars a week. Doesn't sound like much,
but it was probably quite a bit then I remember it,
not that I was on a benefit. Of course, the
secondest benefit she cut around twenty percent, and that was
twenty seven dollars a week, and support for families was reduced,
basically the whole family benefit was changed. So really, I

(05:19):
think I think it'll be quite an interesting between these two.
And you know, in fairness to Ruth Richardson, she was
a hard ass, no doubt about that.

Speaker 1 (05:28):
And it was to make friends, to make friends. Hey,
the fudge chocolate thing for the taxpasion as well. I've
been told that I wasn't meant to mention it because
it's embargo till tomorrow. Oh dear, And you've eaten your fudge,
eaten my fudge hand in the cookie jar.

Speaker 2 (05:43):
You've had your cake and eat as well, So there you.

Speaker 1 (05:45):
Go, all right, very thanks for that. Very Soper News
Talks political Correspondent.

Speaker 3 (05:50):
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