The Public Service Commissioner says there's signs of optimism and room for improvement in this year's survey of public servants.
The poll of 40 thousand workers found 80 percent think there's a staff shortage and workloads are too high.
Commissioner Brian Roche says AI, not more staff, could be the answer.
He says he's not making much of the finding - a third of public servants thought they were underpaid.
"I've never been in a workplace where there's an element of people who don't think they should get paid more."
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
A survey of more than forty thousand of our public
servants has revealed some tough home truths. Fewer than half
are confident their colleagues were hired based on merit. Yeah,
four and five say staffing levels and work volumes are
a problem, and just fifty seven percent think senior leaders
articulate the direction and priorities of their organization. Well, just
(00:24):
one in three we're happy with their pay. Sir Brian
Roach is the Public Service Commissioner. Sir Brian, Hello, good afternoon.
So what is this survey telling you.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
The survey tells me that actually the state of the
public sector is pretty good. We've got some strong foundations
around our staff understanding about what they do makes a
difference to New zealand that integrity is important. So the
foundations are good, but we also have quite a bit
of homework to do and that there is a number
(00:56):
of issues they've highlighted that they would like us to
pay attention to around an efficient decision making, complicated business
processes for communications. So yeah, I think it's good and
it gives us a lot to get on with and
that's what we're going to do.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Four out of five say staffing levels and work volumes
are a problem. Is that in their heads or is
that real? Do we actually need more public servants?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
I don't think we need more public servants, and that's
not something I'll be focused on. I do think that's
how people feel, and I'm not going to be dismissed
of it. So I need to get to understand if
that is the issue. Actually, what is our response. And
I've said a number of times publicly and will continue
that their is scope to simplify and give people more
(01:45):
time to do the work they need. I think there
are tools and techniques, including the introduction of AI, which
will help people do their tasks, and that's what the
government is committed to and that's what I want to lead.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
What about this is of merit, So I'm quite a
shocking number, you know, forty four percent confident their colleagues
will have hired based on merit. What will the rest
hide on?
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Yeah, I mean I was sort of shocked by that,
and it's not something that I believe is true at
the senior levels of the public service. I mean, there
are a lot of levels here, so you know, I'm
not once again, I'm not going to dismiss that because
that's what people think, and I don't want to get
into some form of deniability. Let's just work through the
issues with them and find out whether that's true or not.
(02:30):
I would be shripped and I'd be extremely disappointed if
that's actually factually based.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Did you ask or do you have any idea? Have
you asked a question? If not hired on merit, then
what they were hired on?
Speaker 2 (02:43):
I didn't ask that. That's not how it was structured.
But you know, the fact that they think that is
in itself quite confronting because we pride ourselves in New
Zealand generally in the public service, particularly that people get
their jobs based on their skill and their merit.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Clearly they don't think that that's happening in the public service.
That's a major problem.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Yeah, I'm not denying that, but we are going to
have to address that. As I said, I'm very comfortable
at the very senior levels that it is based on
their but there is a view in some of the
levels down in the organizations that that's not alwayst the case.
How do you completely unacceptable?
Speaker 1 (03:21):
How do you fix that? How do you fix that?
Do you say, because you can't go around and say, well,
you don't hire people based on that, do you. I mean,
you can't do the opposite, No.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
But I mean ultimately hiring somebody as a matter of judgment,
they have to have good technical skills and they need
really good characters. So it's something I've rein forced to
the chief executives. We do not want this perception that
people are getting jobs on other than what they bring
to the job and their ability to do the job.
That goes to the very harder confidence and trust. It's
(03:54):
not something that we want to be playing with.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Just a third of them think they're paid enough. One
third think they're paid enough. The would salary one hundred thousand,
just over one hundred thousand dollars. Are they out of touch?
Speaker 2 (04:05):
I don't think they're out of touch. I've never been
in a workplace where people don't think they should get
paid more.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Have you seen? The reality is that's quite a bad
number those that way.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
I think two thirds thinking that they're paid enough is good.
One set's so they don't think they've been paid enough.
Once again, I'm not going to sort of whitewash that away,
but you know, we're in very tight fiscal constraint. We
always want to pay people what they're with and I
think for overwhelming majority we do. But as I said,
(04:36):
I've never been in a workplace where there's an element
of people who don't think they should get paid more.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
So, Brian, just finding sixty five thousand public servants, how
many do you think ideally once you've finished your reforms,
once you're finished with it, we would need.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
I actually don't have that number. I haven't got a number.
But what I do know is that with some greater
sort of restructuring, which I know people don't want to hear,
but the reality is we've got too many agencies, we
need to reduce the number. And with the introduction of AI,
I think that there are significant games to be made
and we will be making those over the next two
(05:11):
to four years.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
So there you go. More restructures to come that, Sir
Brian Wroach, the Public Services Commissioner. Up for more from
Hither Duplessy Allen Drive. Listen live to news talks. It'd
be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
A survey of more than forty thousand of our public
servants has revealed some tough home truths. Fewer than half
are confident their colleagues were hired based on merit. Yeah,
four and five say staffing levels and work volumes are
a problem, and just fifty seven percent think senior leaders
articulate the direction and priorities of their organization. Well, just
(00:24):
one in three we're happy with their pay. Sir Brian
Roach is the Public Service Commissioner. Sir Brian, Hello, good afternoon.
So what is this survey telling you.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
The survey tells me that actually the state of the
public sector is pretty good. We've got some strong foundations
around our staff understanding about what they do makes a
difference to New zealand that integrity is important. So the
foundations are good, but we also have quite a bit
of homework to do and that there is a number
(00:56):
of issues they've highlighted that they would like us to
pay attention to around an efficient decision making, complicated business
processes for communications. So yeah, I think it's good and
it gives us a lot to get on with and
that's what we're going to do.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Four out of five say staffing levels and work volumes
are a problem. Is that in their heads or is
that real? Do we actually need more public servants?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
I don't think we need more public servants, and that's
not something I'll be focused on. I do think that's
how people feel, and I'm not going to be dismissed
of it. So I need to get to understand if
that is the issue. Actually, what is our response. And
I've said a number of times publicly and will continue
that their is scope to simplify and give people more
(01:45):
time to do the work they need. I think there
are tools and techniques, including the introduction of AI, which
will help people do their tasks, and that's what the
government is committed to and that's what I want to lead.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
What about this is of merit, So I'm quite a
shocking number, you know, forty four percent confident their colleagues
will have hired based on merit. What will the rest
hide on?
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Yeah, I mean I was sort of shocked by that,
and it's not something that I believe is true at
the senior levels of the public service. I mean, there
are a lot of levels here, so you know, I'm
not once again, I'm not going to dismiss that because
that's what people think, and I don't want to get
into some form of deniability. Let's just work through the
issues with them and find out whether that's true or not.
(02:30):
I would be shripped and I'd be extremely disappointed if
that's actually factually based.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
Did you ask or do you have any idea? Have
you asked a question? If not hired on merit, then
what they were hired on?
Speaker 2 (02:43):
I didn't ask that. That's not how it was structured.
But you know, the fact that they think that is
in itself quite confronting because we pride ourselves in New
Zealand generally in the public service, particularly that people get
their jobs based on their skill and their merit.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
Clearly they don't think that that's happening in the public service.
That's a major problem.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Yeah, I'm not denying that, but we are going to
have to address that. As I said, I'm very comfortable
at the very senior levels that it is based on
their but there is a view in some of the
levels down in the organizations that that's not alwayst the case.
How do you completely unacceptable?
Speaker 1 (03:21):
How do you fix that? How do you fix that?
Do you say, because you can't go around and say, well,
you don't hire people based on that, do you. I mean,
you can't do the opposite, No.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
But I mean ultimately hiring somebody as a matter of judgment,
they have to have good technical skills and they need
really good characters. So it's something I've rein forced to
the chief executives. We do not want this perception that
people are getting jobs on other than what they bring
to the job and their ability to do the job.
That goes to the very harder confidence and trust. It's
(03:54):
not something that we want to be playing with.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
Just a third of them think they're paid enough. One
third think they're paid enough. The would salary one hundred thousand,
just over one hundred thousand dollars. Are they out of touch?
Speaker 2 (04:05):
I don't think they're out of touch. I've never been
in a workplace where people don't think they should get
paid more.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Have you seen? The reality is that's quite a bad
number those that way.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
I think two thirds thinking that they're paid enough is good.
One set's so they don't think they've been paid enough.
Once again, I'm not going to sort of whitewash that away,
but you know, we're in very tight fiscal constraint. We
always want to pay people what they're with and I
think for overwhelming majority we do. But as I said,
(04:36):
I've never been in a workplace where there's an element
of people who don't think they should get paid more.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
So, Brian, just finding sixty five thousand public servants, how
many do you think ideally once you've finished your reforms,
once you're finished with it, we would need.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
I actually don't have that number. I haven't got a number.
But what I do know is that with some greater
sort of restructuring, which I know people don't want to hear,
but the reality is we've got too many agencies, we
need to reduce the number. And with the introduction of AI,
I think that there are significant games to be made
and we will be making those over the next two
(05:11):
to four years.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
So there you go. More restructures to come that, Sir
Brian Wroach, the Public Services Commissioner. Up for more from
Hither Duplessy Allen Drive. Listen live to news talks. It'd
be from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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