September 4, 2025 • 6 mins
There's been some new proposals regarding the future of housing density in Auckland, and it's prompted plenty of debate and discussion.
The draft plan would see more dense housing built around key transport hubs, like the new City Rail Link.
Housing Minister Chris Bishop says Auckland needs to allow for more housing, and there's a long-term plan in place for the city's future.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now there's a bit of disagreement within the Coalition. David
Seymour has criticized Auckland's housing density plan, which makes it
possible to build up to two million homes in the city,
and he's pressuring the Housing Minister and the council Auckland
Council to rethink it. Housing Minister Chris Bishop is with us.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hi bish, good start. Happy birthday, Oh thank you very much.
I hear Azaria did a little happy birthday thing for
me that was very nice.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Have you heard it.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
I have heard it. Yes, it's been sent to me.
It's very kind. Let's all have a listen.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Let's all ever listen the Honorable Chris Bishop. I don't
think she hasn't got a future in music recording.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
A probably not featuring little old Jerry Brownley. There it's
got a little cameo from big G.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Your former boss. Now listen, are you prepared to budge
on this?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Well?
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Parliament's whld Auckland Council to go and redo its plan.
And in fact the reason Parliament's done that is because
Auckland Council wanted us too. They wrote to me around
a year ago and said, listen, we want to opt
out of the m DR. Actually we campaigned on that,
so that's fine. So to act so to national so
that's all fine. And so we've given effect to their wishes.
And they also said, look we need to down zone
around the flood areas where you post the floods.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
There's been a whole lot of new mapping, so that's
all good. So we said that's fine.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
And then we said, okay, but look, if you're going
to redo the plan, you've got to do more density
around the train stations, particularly the city railing stations, where
we're spending thick in to six billion bucks.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
And the council was up for that.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
So Parliament's legislated the plan and now it's over to
the council and they have choices around where they where
they where they grow. But they've got to grow. That's
the sten of take home points.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
You know.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Aukland's got to allow more housing, but they've got choices
around how they do that. They can do medium density,
they can do more apartments, they can do more terraced housing,
and they can do more green fields too. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Is it not a dumb idea though from them to
chuck up multi story apartment buildings on pipes and roads
that can't handle the extra load, well.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
They just they won't be built. Right.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
So that's the point is that this is a plan
for the long term. It's not a next year type plan.
It's a thirty year plan. So you know, as an
apartment building is it might be zoned, you know, it
might be the capacity might be there in a zoning sense. Right,
you can go and build an apartment, but if the
infrastructure can't cope, then it doesn't get built because you
build an apartment.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Yes, but is there is there a kind of a
proviso that if you do chuck up this multi story building,
is there an obligation to then fix the pipes underneath
it to make sure it can handle Well's there's.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
A sequencing issue right with between water Care and the
council and some of the other enabling infrastructure that's required
for that stuff. So the point would be that over time,
as the infrastructure goes in and water Care has got
huge plans and we've just let them borrow more money
and given them a huge amount of more debt head
room and stuff which I won't go into, but water
Care has got very in the central intercept has just opened.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
So there's a huge.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Amount of more storm water and waste water capacity coming
into Auckland.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
But it's not all going to happen immediately.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
There's a long term plan for water care over many
years and as the infrastructure gets built, the housing capacity
is there and then the houses can get built as well.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
So it does, But does a lot does it necessarily
go that the infrastructure must go first then the houses?
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Well, yeah, because you can't.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
You can't build an apartment that can't connect into waste
moore and store wore than that isn't there. You know,
it's a sequencing of the coordination. And as I say,
this is a long term thing, it's a thirty year think.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
What about the allegation that David Seymour has made that
Aullcland Council is making it hard to find this detail online.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Well, he probably is right about that.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
I mean it's a I think in the council's defense
without you know, I'm not here to defend the council.
But they put up the plans as a draft to
consult with the local boards and everybody else. But there's
formal consultation coming. This is like a draft of a
draft right. So it's a draft of a draft. There's
an actual draft that will go out formally for consultation
in September, and then there'll be public consultation on that,
(03:40):
and there'll be hearings that people will be allowed to
turn up to and have their say and say, look,
I don't like this in my suburban this, you know
this particular streets and appropriate for this, And you know,
there'll be a bunch of experts we'll sit around and
decide whether or not that's the legitimate or not.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
That's all going to happen next year.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
So I suppose my point for people listening is we're
right at the start of the process. People just need
to tie a bit. We're right at the start of
the process. It's a draft of a draft, and people
should engage and talk to the councilors and talk to
their local board representatives and engage on what it all means.
But Auckland's got choices, you know, the council and the
council laws have choices around where it grows.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
But they've got to grow, you know that.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
I mean it's going to come down to nimbiism, isn't it,
Because nobody actually in a villa wants to have a
five ten fifteen story apartment go up next door and
cast a massive shadow over you. That's what it's ultimately
going to be one or lost on.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Well, that's some There are rules around that.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
There are rules around shade and height, to boundary ratios
and set back rules and all of that stuff that
the Council can and is setting. So I don't think
people should get super alarmed about that, but I understand that.
I understand the concern of some people. People want to
protect the character. Actually, the special Character Provisions and the
new draft Plan are a four point five six percent
reduction on the PC seventy eight plan change seventy eight,
(04:55):
which the Council was having to do, you know, three
or four years ago. So there's but there's a veryous
more reduction. I accept it's a reduction, but it's only
four and a half five percent, And actually.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
You'd be surprised.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
I've had emails from people who live in these villas
in Auckland saying this is really great. This is a
great plan because ultimately I want my kids to have
affordable housing. I want to be able to see my
kids and my grandkids. I want people to be able
to live with. You don't believe me. Now, I've had
emails about it.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Do you want to do?
Speaker 1 (05:21):
You want to send us one redact the name and
send it to me.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
I can.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
I can happy to do that, and it's also fair
to say, and I will be completely honest. I've had
emails the other way from people saying, you know, I.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Believe your biship.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
I don't like you, but and I recognize it's a
controversial debate, and I totally understand where people are coming from.
I don't I don't want to sound unsympathetic to any
of that stuff. But there's a there's a pathway through
here and ultimately it's over to Auckland.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
They have choices around how and where they grow.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Okay, right, first of all, you're going to send me that,
then the redacted email, and then the second thing is
what are you doing for your birthday?
Speaker 2 (05:59):
I'm actually in Auckland.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
I'm going out to dinner with the Public Transport Association
of New Zealand. I'm having a ministerial dinner for their
so I know it's very exciting.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Good on you, mate, Happy birthday. Chris Bishop, National Party
Housing Minister.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
For More from Heather Duplessy, Allen Drave.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Listen live to news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
Now there's a bit of disagreement within the Coalition. David
Seymour has criticized Auckland's housing density plan, which makes it
possible to build up to two million homes in the city,
and he's pressuring the Housing Minister and the council Auckland
Council to rethink it. Housing Minister Chris Bishop is with us.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hi bish, good start. Happy birthday, Oh thank you very much.
I hear Azaria did a little happy birthday thing for
me that was very nice.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Have you heard it.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
I have heard it. Yes, it's been sent to me.
It's very kind. Let's all have a listen.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Let's all ever listen the Honorable Chris Bishop. I don't
think she hasn't got a future in music recording.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
A probably not featuring little old Jerry Brownley. There it's
got a little cameo from big G.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
Your former boss. Now listen, are you prepared to budge
on this?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Well?
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Parliament's whld Auckland Council to go and redo its plan.
And in fact the reason Parliament's done that is because
Auckland Council wanted us too. They wrote to me around
a year ago and said, listen, we want to opt
out of the m DR. Actually we campaigned on that,
so that's fine. So to act so to national so
that's all fine. And so we've given effect to their wishes.
And they also said, look we need to down zone
around the flood areas where you post the floods.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
There's been a whole lot of new mapping, so that's
all good. So we said that's fine.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
And then we said, okay, but look, if you're going
to redo the plan, you've got to do more density
around the train stations, particularly the city railing stations, where
we're spending thick in to six billion bucks.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
And the council was up for that.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
So Parliament's legislated the plan and now it's over to
the council and they have choices around where they where
they where they grow. But they've got to grow. That's
the sten of take home points.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
You know.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Aukland's got to allow more housing, but they've got choices
around how they do that. They can do medium density,
they can do more apartments, they can do more terraced housing,
and they can do more green fields too. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Is it not a dumb idea though from them to
chuck up multi story apartment buildings on pipes and roads
that can't handle the extra load, well.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
They just they won't be built. Right.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
So that's the point is that this is a plan
for the long term. It's not a next year type plan.
It's a thirty year plan. So you know, as an
apartment building is it might be zoned, you know, it
might be the capacity might be there in a zoning sense. Right,
you can go and build an apartment, but if the
infrastructure can't cope, then it doesn't get built because you
build an apartment.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
Yes, but is there is there a kind of a
proviso that if you do chuck up this multi story building,
is there an obligation to then fix the pipes underneath
it to make sure it can handle Well's there's.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
A sequencing issue right with between water Care and the
council and some of the other enabling infrastructure that's required
for that stuff. So the point would be that over time,
as the infrastructure goes in and water Care has got
huge plans and we've just let them borrow more money
and given them a huge amount of more debt head
room and stuff which I won't go into, but water
Care has got very in the central intercept has just opened.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
So there's a huge.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Amount of more storm water and waste water capacity coming
into Auckland.
Speaker 2 (02:45):
But it's not all going to happen immediately.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
There's a long term plan for water care over many
years and as the infrastructure gets built, the housing capacity
is there and then the houses can get built as well.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
So it does, But does a lot does it necessarily
go that the infrastructure must go first then the houses?
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Well, yeah, because you can't.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
You can't build an apartment that can't connect into waste
moore and store wore than that isn't there. You know,
it's a sequencing of the coordination. And as I say,
this is a long term thing, it's a thirty year think.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
What about the allegation that David Seymour has made that
Aullcland Council is making it hard to find this detail online.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Well, he probably is right about that.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
I mean it's a I think in the council's defense
without you know, I'm not here to defend the council.
But they put up the plans as a draft to
consult with the local boards and everybody else. But there's
formal consultation coming. This is like a draft of a
draft right. So it's a draft of a draft. There's
an actual draft that will go out formally for consultation
in September, and then there'll be public consultation on that,
(03:40):
and there'll be hearings that people will be allowed to
turn up to and have their say and say, look,
I don't like this in my suburban this, you know
this particular streets and appropriate for this, And you know,
there'll be a bunch of experts we'll sit around and
decide whether or not that's the legitimate or not.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
That's all going to happen next year.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
So I suppose my point for people listening is we're
right at the start of the process. People just need
to tie a bit. We're right at the start of
the process. It's a draft of a draft, and people
should engage and talk to the councilors and talk to
their local board representatives and engage on what it all means.
But Auckland's got choices, you know, the council and the
council laws have choices around where it grows.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
But they've got to grow, you know that.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
I mean it's going to come down to nimbiism, isn't it,
Because nobody actually in a villa wants to have a
five ten fifteen story apartment go up next door and
cast a massive shadow over you. That's what it's ultimately
going to be one or lost on.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
Well, that's some There are rules around that.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
There are rules around shade and height, to boundary ratios
and set back rules and all of that stuff that
the Council can and is setting. So I don't think
people should get super alarmed about that, but I understand that.
I understand the concern of some people. People want to
protect the character. Actually, the special Character Provisions and the
new draft Plan are a four point five six percent
reduction on the PC seventy eight plan change seventy eight,
(04:55):
which the Council was having to do, you know, three
or four years ago. So there's but there's a veryous
more reduction. I accept it's a reduction, but it's only
four and a half five percent, And actually.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
You'd be surprised.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
I've had emails from people who live in these villas
in Auckland saying this is really great. This is a
great plan because ultimately I want my kids to have
affordable housing. I want to be able to see my
kids and my grandkids. I want people to be able
to live with. You don't believe me. Now, I've had
emails about it.
Speaker 2 (05:21):
Do you want to do?
Speaker 1 (05:21):
You want to send us one redact the name and
send it to me.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
I can.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
I can happy to do that, and it's also fair
to say, and I will be completely honest. I've had
emails the other way from people saying, you know, I.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Believe your biship.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
I don't like you, but and I recognize it's a
controversial debate, and I totally understand where people are coming from.
I don't I don't want to sound unsympathetic to any
of that stuff. But there's a there's a pathway through
here and ultimately it's over to Auckland.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
They have choices around how and where they grow.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
Okay, right, first of all, you're going to send me that,
then the redacted email, and then the second thing is
what are you doing for your birthday?
Speaker 2 (05:59):
I'm actually in Auckland.
Speaker 3 (06:01):
I'm going out to dinner with the Public Transport Association
of New Zealand. I'm having a ministerial dinner for their
so I know it's very exciting.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Good on you, mate, Happy birthday. Chris Bishop, National Party
Housing Minister.
Speaker 2 (06:16):
For More from Heather Duplessy, Allen Drave.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Listen live to news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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