October 20, 2025 • 8 mins
Drivers are likely to have to cough up for travelling on the Government's Roads of National Significance.
NZTA's board has endorsed the investment cases for all the roads.
Transport Minister Chris Bishop says the default will be to toll the new roads in order to establish a clear revenue stream.
"Once you've built a road, it's all very well to have it there, but you've got to look after it as well."
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
And standing in for the Finance Minister. Tonight we have
Chris Bishop, the Associate Finance Minister, and of course the
Minister for Housing and Transport. Halo bish Hello, right, I
want to talk to you about the Roads of National
Significance announcement today. See you guys are sitting aside half
a billion dollars to buy up houses where the roads
need to go. It seems like a lot.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Well there's a lot of roads.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
I mean seventeen roads around the country. We've announced a
lot of investment cases today. They've all gone through the
Transport Agency Board and that's now the next step.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
It's then the acquisition.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
That's consenting, that's designations, that's geotech works, there's all the
stuff you need to do before you actually build a road.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
People think you can sort of start it tomorrow. You can't.
You've got to do all this work.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
I mean relation to Mount Vick, you know tunnel for example,
they're still that are property purchased to go there's East
West Link and Aucklanders and property purchasing to go to
Wide and corridors and things like that.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
So yeah, it is quite a bit of money.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
But then when you you know, you put it in
the in the round of the investment we're making and
the importance of these roads.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
It's you know, just what it is.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
How many of these roads are going to get told?
Speaker 3 (00:58):
The starting point for all of them will be told.
That's a really clear government direction that we will we
will look to.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Toll all of them.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
And the reason for that is it's a revenue stream
that means the road can happen sooner than otherwise would
it would you know, it can be brought forward. And
then of course it gives you a revenue stream to
cover the maintenance costs of the roads as well, because
once you've built a road, it's all very well to
have it there, but you've got to look after it
as well.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Well.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
The toll well, in relation to some of the roads
we've already got told, like the Toyron Eastern Link from memory,
that's a twenty five year toll started in twenty and ten,
I think from memories, about fifteen years into it, so you.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Roll them out for twenty five or thirty year period.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
But I want to be really clear that tolling is
not a magic money tree like people sort of think
tolling covers everything in a road.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
It doesn't. It covers some of the cost of it,
but it doesn't cover all of it.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Okay, did you like Labour's Future Fund?
Speaker 2 (01:52):
I thought it was a bit of a brain fart
put to paper.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
I mean honestly, like I had a read of it,
Like there's more detail in my Uber Eats order than
there is and what they put in their document. I mean, honestly,
it's just it's eleven pages. Three of three of them
are photos. One of them is like something that you
take out of a clip art manual and check on
the front page. I mean, honestly, it's there's nothing there.
There's just literally nothing there.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Like GP, it's a crappy idea, because what it is
is it's a good idea. The Singaporean idea is a
good idea, but then they hobble it in the way
that only Labor is able to. But do you like
the Singaporean idea that it's based on, which is that
you put all the state assets into a into a
fund that's independently managed and we don't have an emotional
connection to it. They can sell and buy and do whatever.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
But it's the it's the opposite of Timisi. So TMR Sik,
for example, allows the assets owned by the company to
be sold.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Labor said they won't do that.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
And it also says that you can invest overseas, and
Labor said, you won't invest overseas well, only if it's.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
In New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
So it's like it's like literally the opposite of the
Temasik model. It's like appalling defamation of the Singaporeans frankly.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
To say that. It's like, it's not like that.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
No, they've taken a good idea and they've but do
you like the original good idea? Could you guys do
the original good idea?
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Well, it's been kicked around a bit in the past,
and you know, I think Shane Jones did a bit
of work on it when he was in government with
later last time. You know, it's not the world's worst idea,
and you know, we do want to see investment grow
in New Zealand, there's no no doubt about that. But
this is this is not I mean, there's no numbers
to this, there's no detail, there's no policy, there's just nothing.
It's just a pile of words on a piece of paper,
(03:24):
that's all it is.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Are you going to compromise with Act on the surcharge ban.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
We're not intending to change the position, the government position
on the surcharge ban. The Commerce Commissions come out and
as drastically lowered the interchange fees that retailers will be paying,
and what we're doing on the surcharge ban is making
sure that those costs get passed on to consumers.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Okay, are you open to get getting rid of the BSA, Well,
I think it's.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Worth it's worth having a look at what's gone on here.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
I mean I think you know, I had a sort
of stuff over the weekend about you know, Sean Plunkett's
operation and is it a broadcasters not? I mean, look,
the problem is the law is just out of date, right,
you know it was written in nineteen eighty nine, I
think is the Broadcasting Act back then, you know you
had terrestrial TV and you know Sky was coming and
you know eventually we included that and that was that. Well,
now you know you've got engineers and you've got the platform,
(04:16):
and you've got all these other shows. So the law
is just a bit out of date. And you know
we're going to gold Is going to have a look
at it. Paul Goldsmith and Miss is going to.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Have a lot.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Please tell me you're not going to give the BSA
greater powers.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
I don't think that's the intention of government policy. No.
I mean it's possible it will.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Get abolished, rolled into the Media Council or something like that.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Well, we're just going to figure out exactly what's happened here,
because they seem to have asserted a power that many
people don't think that they have right and why they've
done that is, you know, unclear frankly, So Goldie is
having a good look at it.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
And I think we weren't giving them enough work anymore.
That's the problem. They were bored.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Do you think, Well, the people make complaints of the
BSA all the time. You would have believed what people
complain about on TV about unbelievable. Oh so they publish
the results the complaints sometimes and they deal with them.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
People can play about all sorts of you great, believe.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
What they uphold bish, it's ridiculous. Now did you like that?
Speaker 2 (05:11):
You know more about it than I went?
Speaker 1 (05:13):
And I do? Did you like that fresh water pole
that came out last week that said that you were
the successor in waiting?
Speaker 2 (05:20):
I don't pay much attention to that stuff.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Whatever.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
No, I'm just head down, bump up on my portfolios.
We've got seven things, seven portfolios I'm working on.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Okay, So you're not the next National Party prime minister,
then are you?
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Bish?
Speaker 3 (05:32):
We have a prime minister and he's doing a great
job and we've all just got to get him behind
him and the team and make sure we get the
recovery underway.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Is there any chance that you would be open to
the AA's idea of bumping up the level of fines
that we pay in this country significantly.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Yeah, we're going to have a look at that.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Give you an example, if you go ten k over
the speed limit, it's a thirty dollar fine.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Well, guess guess when.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
That level was set nineteen ninety nine.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
Nineteen eighty eight. No, yes, so most of them were
set in ninety nine, so you're part right. But the
thirty bucks for going eight k over the speed limit
was set in nineteen eighty eight, which is thirty seven
years ago, and during that time, well, we're having a
look at it. It was actually part of a piece
of work we've got underway already, is to look at
(06:18):
the fines and you lift them because they have got
massively out of step. And you know, I think people
you know, no one likes paying fines obviously, but you
need them there to make sure that people do keep
to the speed limit and you know, where your seat
belt and you you know, don't look at your phone
while they're driving and all that stuff. So some of
these things are now wildly out of date, and they're
miles out of date with you know, say Victoria in
Australia for example, it's like from memory, it's like five
(06:40):
hundred bucks if you get caught with your phone on Victoria.
And so I'm not saying we're going to head to
that level, you know, but we're going to have a
good look at it.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
And so that works underway.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Now listen, I've got an idea for you, okay, because
I know you're trying to find money all the time,
you know, and get rid of wastage. How about ditching
the fees free policy.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Yeah, well it didn't work, did it.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
I mean, Labor put it and you remember back in
twenty eighteen, I think it was Chris and said, oh
it's going to be great, this great progressive move is
going to raise participation. Well, numbers actually went down after
they introduced it, so we said that, well, we did
a deal with New Zealand first and said, look, well
let's make it the third year because at least that
makes some logical sense, right, Like you get kids into
university and then you want to make sure they finish
off the third year, which is you know, your BA
(07:20):
or your b COM or whatever. So at least your
third year makes makes sense to keep kids at it
because there is a bit of a drop off, so,
you know, no doubt, well that's the position at the moment.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
But then they just did a report last week and
they said, even that's not working and it's just a
dead weight policies. Literally, we're just wasting money.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Well, it's a form of student support that is great
for the kids who kids keep saying their kids and
not all of them the kids. Great for the people
who get it, students who get it. But of course
there are trade offs with all of this stuff, right,
so it's money that you can't spend on, you know,
for example, improving the overall tertiary education system, focusing on
teaching and research and all the things that you go
to university for. So we actually have one of the
(08:01):
most generous student support schemes in the Western world. From memory,
we're second in the OECD in terms of student support,
you know, because you've got interest for student loans as well,
and student allowances and interest, you know, grants for students
that aren't inflation adjusted.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
So well, let's have a look at it. I'm not
rolling it out.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
I like that, Thank you, Bush. I appreciate that. Chris Bishop,
Associate Finance Minister and Minister of Housing and Transport as well,
it's going to take a look at it. Happy days.
I hate that policies. For more from Heather Duplessy Alan Drive,
listen live to news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
And standing in for the Finance Minister. Tonight we have
Chris Bishop, the Associate Finance Minister, and of course the
Minister for Housing and Transport. Halo bish Hello, right, I
want to talk to you about the Roads of National
Significance announcement today. See you guys are sitting aside half
a billion dollars to buy up houses where the roads
need to go. It seems like a lot.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Well there's a lot of roads.
Speaker 3 (00:19):
I mean seventeen roads around the country. We've announced a
lot of investment cases today. They've all gone through the
Transport Agency Board and that's now the next step.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
It's then the acquisition.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
That's consenting, that's designations, that's geotech works, there's all the
stuff you need to do before you actually build a road.
Speaker 2 (00:33):
People think you can sort of start it tomorrow. You can't.
You've got to do all this work.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
I mean relation to Mount Vick, you know tunnel for example,
they're still that are property purchased to go there's East
West Link and Aucklanders and property purchasing to go to
Wide and corridors and things like that.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
So yeah, it is quite a bit of money.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
But then when you you know, you put it in
the in the round of the investment we're making and
the importance of these roads.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
It's you know, just what it is.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
How many of these roads are going to get told?
Speaker 3 (00:58):
The starting point for all of them will be told.
That's a really clear government direction that we will we
will look to.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Toll all of them.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
And the reason for that is it's a revenue stream
that means the road can happen sooner than otherwise would
it would you know, it can be brought forward. And
then of course it gives you a revenue stream to
cover the maintenance costs of the roads as well, because
once you've built a road, it's all very well to
have it there, but you've got to look after it
as well.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Well.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
The toll well, in relation to some of the roads
we've already got told, like the Toyron Eastern Link from memory,
that's a twenty five year toll started in twenty and ten,
I think from memories, about fifteen years into it, so you.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Roll them out for twenty five or thirty year period.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
But I want to be really clear that tolling is
not a magic money tree like people sort of think
tolling covers everything in a road.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
It doesn't. It covers some of the cost of it,
but it doesn't cover all of it.
Speaker 1 (01:48):
Okay, did you like Labour's Future Fund?
Speaker 2 (01:52):
I thought it was a bit of a brain fart
put to paper.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
I mean honestly, like I had a read of it,
Like there's more detail in my Uber Eats order than
there is and what they put in their document. I mean, honestly,
it's just it's eleven pages. Three of three of them
are photos. One of them is like something that you
take out of a clip art manual and check on
the front page. I mean, honestly, it's there's nothing there.
There's just literally nothing there.
Speaker 1 (02:14):
Like GP, it's a crappy idea, because what it is
is it's a good idea. The Singaporean idea is a
good idea, but then they hobble it in the way
that only Labor is able to. But do you like
the Singaporean idea that it's based on, which is that
you put all the state assets into a into a
fund that's independently managed and we don't have an emotional
connection to it. They can sell and buy and do whatever.
Speaker 3 (02:34):
But it's the it's the opposite of Timisi. So TMR Sik,
for example, allows the assets owned by the company to
be sold.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
Labor said they won't do that.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
And it also says that you can invest overseas, and
Labor said, you won't invest overseas well, only if it's.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
In New Zealand.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
So it's like it's like literally the opposite of the
Temasik model. It's like appalling defamation of the Singaporeans frankly.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
To say that. It's like, it's not like that.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
No, they've taken a good idea and they've but do
you like the original good idea? Could you guys do
the original good idea?
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Well, it's been kicked around a bit in the past,
and you know, I think Shane Jones did a bit
of work on it when he was in government with
later last time. You know, it's not the world's worst idea,
and you know, we do want to see investment grow
in New Zealand, there's no no doubt about that. But
this is this is not I mean, there's no numbers
to this, there's no detail, there's no policy, there's just nothing.
It's just a pile of words on a piece of paper,
(03:24):
that's all it is.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Are you going to compromise with Act on the surcharge ban.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
We're not intending to change the position, the government position
on the surcharge ban. The Commerce Commissions come out and
as drastically lowered the interchange fees that retailers will be paying,
and what we're doing on the surcharge ban is making
sure that those costs get passed on to consumers.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Okay, are you open to get getting rid of the BSA, Well,
I think it's.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
Worth it's worth having a look at what's gone on here.
Speaker 3 (03:53):
I mean I think you know, I had a sort
of stuff over the weekend about you know, Sean Plunkett's
operation and is it a broadcasters not? I mean, look,
the problem is the law is just out of date, right,
you know it was written in nineteen eighty nine, I
think is the Broadcasting Act back then, you know you
had terrestrial TV and you know Sky was coming and
you know eventually we included that and that was that. Well,
now you know you've got engineers and you've got the platform,
(04:16):
and you've got all these other shows. So the law
is just a bit out of date. And you know
we're going to gold Is going to have a look
at it. Paul Goldsmith and Miss is going to.
Speaker 2 (04:23):
Have a lot.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Please tell me you're not going to give the BSA
greater powers.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
I don't think that's the intention of government policy. No.
I mean it's possible it will.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
Get abolished, rolled into the Media Council or something like that.
Speaker 3 (04:35):
Well, we're just going to figure out exactly what's happened here,
because they seem to have asserted a power that many
people don't think that they have right and why they've
done that is, you know, unclear frankly, So Goldie is
having a good look at it.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
And I think we weren't giving them enough work anymore.
That's the problem. They were bored.
Speaker 3 (04:53):
Do you think, Well, the people make complaints of the
BSA all the time. You would have believed what people
complain about on TV about unbelievable. Oh so they publish
the results the complaints sometimes and they deal with them.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
People can play about all sorts of you great, believe.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
What they uphold bish, it's ridiculous. Now did you like that?
Speaker 2 (05:11):
You know more about it than I went?
Speaker 1 (05:13):
And I do? Did you like that fresh water pole
that came out last week that said that you were
the successor in waiting?
Speaker 2 (05:20):
I don't pay much attention to that stuff.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Whatever.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
No, I'm just head down, bump up on my portfolios.
We've got seven things, seven portfolios I'm working on.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Okay, So you're not the next National Party prime minister,
then are you?
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Bish?
Speaker 3 (05:32):
We have a prime minister and he's doing a great
job and we've all just got to get him behind
him and the team and make sure we get the
recovery underway.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (05:39):
Is there any chance that you would be open to
the AA's idea of bumping up the level of fines
that we pay in this country significantly.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Yeah, we're going to have a look at that.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Give you an example, if you go ten k over
the speed limit, it's a thirty dollar fine.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Well, guess guess when.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
That level was set nineteen ninety nine.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
Nineteen eighty eight. No, yes, so most of them were
set in ninety nine, so you're part right. But the
thirty bucks for going eight k over the speed limit
was set in nineteen eighty eight, which is thirty seven
years ago, and during that time, well, we're having a
look at it. It was actually part of a piece
of work we've got underway already, is to look at
(06:18):
the fines and you lift them because they have got
massively out of step. And you know, I think people
you know, no one likes paying fines obviously, but you
need them there to make sure that people do keep
to the speed limit and you know, where your seat
belt and you you know, don't look at your phone
while they're driving and all that stuff. So some of
these things are now wildly out of date, and they're
miles out of date with you know, say Victoria in
Australia for example, it's like from memory, it's like five
(06:40):
hundred bucks if you get caught with your phone on Victoria.
And so I'm not saying we're going to head to
that level, you know, but we're going to have a
good look at it.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
And so that works underway.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Now listen, I've got an idea for you, okay, because
I know you're trying to find money all the time,
you know, and get rid of wastage. How about ditching
the fees free policy.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
Yeah, well it didn't work, did it.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
I mean, Labor put it and you remember back in
twenty eighteen, I think it was Chris and said, oh
it's going to be great, this great progressive move is
going to raise participation. Well, numbers actually went down after
they introduced it, so we said that, well, we did
a deal with New Zealand first and said, look, well
let's make it the third year because at least that
makes some logical sense, right, Like you get kids into
university and then you want to make sure they finish
off the third year, which is you know, your BA
(07:20):
or your b COM or whatever. So at least your
third year makes makes sense to keep kids at it
because there is a bit of a drop off, so,
you know, no doubt, well that's the position at the moment.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
But then they just did a report last week and
they said, even that's not working and it's just a
dead weight policies. Literally, we're just wasting money.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Well, it's a form of student support that is great
for the kids who kids keep saying their kids and
not all of them the kids. Great for the people
who get it, students who get it. But of course
there are trade offs with all of this stuff, right,
so it's money that you can't spend on, you know,
for example, improving the overall tertiary education system, focusing on
teaching and research and all the things that you go
to university for. So we actually have one of the
(08:01):
most generous student support schemes in the Western world. From memory,
we're second in the OECD in terms of student support,
you know, because you've got interest for student loans as well,
and student allowances and interest, you know, grants for students
that aren't inflation adjusted.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
So well, let's have a look at it. I'm not
rolling it out.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
I like that, Thank you, Bush. I appreciate that. Chris Bishop,
Associate Finance Minister and Minister of Housing and Transport as well,
it's going to take a look at it. Happy days.
I hate that policies. For more from Heather Duplessy Alan Drive,
listen live to news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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