May 22, 2025 • 5 mins
Labour leader Chris Hipkins has been quick to voice his concerns with the 2025 Budget.
Hipkins took aim at the pay equity changes - and opposed the new initiatives around oil and gas.
"If you think about it - it's saying to women that they're worth less, it's saying to all working New Zealanders that your KiwiSaver, when you reach retirement, will be worth less."
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Let's get our first response to the budget. We have
Labor leader Chris Hopkins and studio with me. Hey, how
are you going?
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Hey?
Speaker 3 (00:07):
Look it.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Make a note of the date and time. There are
a couple of things that you just said that I
agreed with here that okay, I don't think that's ever
happened before. I think it was underwhelming. If you're actually
wanting a long term vision for the future of the country,
there's no question on that. You know, parks a whole
lot of the big challenges the country faces further into
the future. Some of the things you said I didn't
agree with, but you know I agreed with you on.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
That, okay, So what did you not agree with me?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
I mean, I think if you look at oil and guess,
for example, two hundred million dollars of oil and gas companies,
you're right in one respect, it is a small amount
of money relative to them. But it's also the government
taking on some of the risk for something that may
never actually eventuate. So it's a government saying, yeah, go drill,
we'll pay for it if nothing hadventu or we'll pay
for some of it's taken it. But actually there's no
guarante they're going to find anything. You know, the last
(00:51):
twenty years they've been looking, they haven't found a commercially
commercially developable find over the last twenty years. So it's
potentially the government just flushing twenty million dollars two undred
million dollars down the drain.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Perhaps, So it also ties your hands though, doesn't it.
I mean, the reason they're having to do this is
because what this does is it ties your hands. Should you,
guys win an election substage in the future, you can't
get rid of the gas exploration.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Not necessarily. I mean we'll cross that bridge, will we
come to it, But.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
I think you're not going to flush that money down
the toilet at But we've got.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
An abundance of energy, we certainly do, and we have
a lot of coal. Now, we've got an abundance of
renewable energy. One area where I do agree with Shane
Jones super critical geothermal. So that's basically you know, the
steam under the ground. We've got an abundance of that,
and if we can clock the technology on that, we're
sorted as a country. So actually I think that thankly,
(01:40):
if I was putting two hundred million dollars into some
big bold and energy thing. I'll probably put it into that,
not a to oil and gas.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Okay, what did you make of taking the doll off teenagers?
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Oh, it's basically saying that you're not an adult till
you're twenty. And is the government going to extend that
to everything. I've got to get into the detail of that, because,
for example, what does it mean for dependent kids who
have disabilities?
Speaker 3 (01:58):
For example, now in that.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Case just jobs seek as emergency. Look, I haven't seen
the detail. So on the surface of it, saying to parents,
you know your kids are your kids. You know you're
liable to them until their twenties. That's agree shold is.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
That you don't have eighteen or nineteen year olds. So
we know kids like us. I know a kid like this.
We don't want them sitting and literally sitting on the
parents couch playing the PlayStation, sitting on the doll. We
want to give them the best chance in life, go out, study,
get a job, waterever.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
I think getting them into things like apprenticeships is a
much better course of action. You know, the apprenticeship boost,
which the government came in half in last year's budget,
was actually doing quite a good job of getting kids
into apprenticeships.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
But is there anything wrong with an incentive like the
carrot and the stick. This is the stick, then you
have the carrot.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Well, I mean, I think the carrot is good.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
The stick when there aren't jobs for them to go
into is a bit problematic. So beating kids for not
going into jobs that aren't scared go study is a
bit problematic.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Go study something for a couple of years that's at
least worthwhile, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
Look i'd love to see more kids going into tertiary study.
In fact, they are.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
You know, we're seeing we're seeing enrollment numbers going. I'm
saying I wouldn't necessarily have done what they've done, but
you know, I do worry about needs. So the nets
are there, not an education, employment or training. I do
worry about the number of them, and it's been steadily
growing over several decades, so under multiple governments, that number
has been growing, and that is it is one of
(03:18):
those big long term problems that the governments still aren't
doing much about.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Right, do you want to have a go at pay
equity because I know that's the thing that's been winding
you up the most.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Of course it is it's basically saying to New Zealand women,
you have to settle for being paid less so the
government can balance its books.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
And I don't think that's right.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Or is it just saying that that particular scheme wasn't
working and we've got to do it a little bit better.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Well, the particular scheme worked very well for the roughly
half of the pay when.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
He claims there was the rettle very well for the
old tax payer though, was it?
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Well, ultimately, how.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Much did they save should be? Was it thirteen billions?
That's enormous.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
But do you think that we should balance the government's
books by saying to women you should settle for being
paid less than men.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
I mean, I don't think that's right.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Oh well, it depends. I mean you know that this
actually comes down to which men were comparing ourselves with, right,
because I'd love to be compared with an orthopedic surgeon.
But it's not realistic.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
And well no, because it's not that simplistic because actually
you still have to prove that the work that's being
done by the male dominated workforces of a similar or
equal value. So the process is actually quite a complicated one.
It's not you don't just pluck figures out of thing
there and go, look, I'm a I'm going to compare
myself to an astronaut. You have to demonstrate that the
astronaut's actually doing work that's of similar value to the
(04:26):
work that you're doing, even if the field that they're
working in is different.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Shall we play this game? What have you called the budget?
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Ah? Look, I haven't quite landed a lot of title yet.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
I mean the worthless budget because actually, if you think
about it, it's saying to women that they're worthless. It's
saying to all working New Zealand, is your Keisaver when
you reach retirement is going to be worthless?
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Because let's say we.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Workshopping this right now on you.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Yeah, I think this is good. You can contribute, feel
free to contribute.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
But you know, like kiwisaver, if you're an eighteen year
old on the minimum wage, sixty over sixty thousand dollars
has just disappeared from your retirement savings because of the
changes the government's made, because they've taken that government contribution
outs taken out. Yeah, but ultimately, you know, if we
want people to have a decent standard of retirement, we've
got to make sure that people want decent retirements over pension.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
We're already doing that. How much more do you want
us to do?
Speaker 2 (05:09):
I think increasing contributions to kipisaver good, so agree with
the government on that. But cutting the government contribution ultimately
then cancels out the benefit of that. So it's saying
we're going to the government's going to take money away
from you, and oh, by the way, well you're going
to compensate by saving more of your own money.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Yes, that's generally how savings work should be. It's good
to have you and thank you for coming in. Chris Hopkins,
Labor Party leader.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Right now for more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen
live to news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
Let's get our first response to the budget. We have
Labor leader Chris Hopkins and studio with me. Hey, how
are you going?
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Hey?
Speaker 3 (00:07):
Look it.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Make a note of the date and time. There are
a couple of things that you just said that I
agreed with here that okay, I don't think that's ever
happened before. I think it was underwhelming. If you're actually
wanting a long term vision for the future of the country,
there's no question on that. You know, parks a whole
lot of the big challenges the country faces further into
the future. Some of the things you said I didn't
agree with, but you know I agreed with you on.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
That, okay, So what did you not agree with me?
Speaker 2 (00:29):
I mean, I think if you look at oil and guess,
for example, two hundred million dollars of oil and gas companies,
you're right in one respect, it is a small amount
of money relative to them. But it's also the government
taking on some of the risk for something that may
never actually eventuate. So it's a government saying, yeah, go drill,
we'll pay for it if nothing hadventu or we'll pay
for some of it's taken it. But actually there's no
guarante they're going to find anything. You know, the last
(00:51):
twenty years they've been looking, they haven't found a commercially
commercially developable find over the last twenty years. So it's
potentially the government just flushing twenty million dollars two undred
million dollars down the drain.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Perhaps, So it also ties your hands though, doesn't it.
I mean, the reason they're having to do this is
because what this does is it ties your hands. Should you,
guys win an election substage in the future, you can't
get rid of the gas exploration.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Not necessarily. I mean we'll cross that bridge, will we
come to it, But.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
I think you're not going to flush that money down
the toilet at But we've got.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
An abundance of energy, we certainly do, and we have
a lot of coal. Now, we've got an abundance of
renewable energy. One area where I do agree with Shane
Jones super critical geothermal. So that's basically you know, the
steam under the ground. We've got an abundance of that,
and if we can clock the technology on that, we're
sorted as a country. So actually I think that thankly,
(01:40):
if I was putting two hundred million dollars into some
big bold and energy thing. I'll probably put it into that,
not a to oil and gas.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Okay, what did you make of taking the doll off teenagers?
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Oh, it's basically saying that you're not an adult till
you're twenty. And is the government going to extend that
to everything. I've got to get into the detail of that, because,
for example, what does it mean for dependent kids who
have disabilities?
Speaker 3 (01:58):
For example, now in that.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Case just jobs seek as emergency. Look, I haven't seen
the detail. So on the surface of it, saying to parents,
you know your kids are your kids. You know you're
liable to them until their twenties. That's agree shold is.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
That you don't have eighteen or nineteen year olds. So
we know kids like us. I know a kid like this.
We don't want them sitting and literally sitting on the
parents couch playing the PlayStation, sitting on the doll. We
want to give them the best chance in life, go out, study,
get a job, waterever.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
I think getting them into things like apprenticeships is a
much better course of action. You know, the apprenticeship boost,
which the government came in half in last year's budget,
was actually doing quite a good job of getting kids
into apprenticeships.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
But is there anything wrong with an incentive like the
carrot and the stick. This is the stick, then you
have the carrot.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Well, I mean, I think the carrot is good.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
The stick when there aren't jobs for them to go
into is a bit problematic. So beating kids for not
going into jobs that aren't scared go study is a
bit problematic.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
Go study something for a couple of years that's at
least worthwhile, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (02:54):
Look i'd love to see more kids going into tertiary study.
In fact, they are.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
You know, we're seeing we're seeing enrollment numbers going. I'm
saying I wouldn't necessarily have done what they've done, but
you know, I do worry about needs. So the nets
are there, not an education, employment or training. I do
worry about the number of them, and it's been steadily
growing over several decades, so under multiple governments, that number
has been growing, and that is it is one of
(03:18):
those big long term problems that the governments still aren't
doing much about.
Speaker 1 (03:21):
Right, do you want to have a go at pay
equity because I know that's the thing that's been winding
you up the most.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
Of course it is it's basically saying to New Zealand women,
you have to settle for being paid less so the
government can balance its books.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
And I don't think that's right.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Or is it just saying that that particular scheme wasn't
working and we've got to do it a little bit better.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Well, the particular scheme worked very well for the roughly
half of the pay when.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
He claims there was the rettle very well for the
old tax payer though, was it?
Speaker 3 (03:44):
Well, ultimately, how.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
Much did they save should be? Was it thirteen billions?
That's enormous.
Speaker 2 (03:49):
But do you think that we should balance the government's
books by saying to women you should settle for being
paid less than men.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
I mean, I don't think that's right.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Oh well, it depends. I mean you know that this
actually comes down to which men were comparing ourselves with, right,
because I'd love to be compared with an orthopedic surgeon.
But it's not realistic.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
And well no, because it's not that simplistic because actually
you still have to prove that the work that's being
done by the male dominated workforces of a similar or
equal value. So the process is actually quite a complicated one.
It's not you don't just pluck figures out of thing
there and go, look, I'm a I'm going to compare
myself to an astronaut. You have to demonstrate that the
astronaut's actually doing work that's of similar value to the
(04:26):
work that you're doing, even if the field that they're
working in is different.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
Shall we play this game? What have you called the budget?
Speaker 3 (04:31):
Ah? Look, I haven't quite landed a lot of title yet.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
I mean the worthless budget because actually, if you think
about it, it's saying to women that they're worthless. It's
saying to all working New Zealand, is your Keisaver when
you reach retirement is going to be worthless?
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Because let's say we.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Workshopping this right now on you.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Yeah, I think this is good. You can contribute, feel
free to contribute.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
But you know, like kiwisaver, if you're an eighteen year
old on the minimum wage, sixty over sixty thousand dollars
has just disappeared from your retirement savings because of the
changes the government's made, because they've taken that government contribution
outs taken out. Yeah, but ultimately, you know, if we
want people to have a decent standard of retirement, we've
got to make sure that people want decent retirements over pension.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
We're already doing that. How much more do you want
us to do?
Speaker 2 (05:09):
I think increasing contributions to kipisaver good, so agree with
the government on that. But cutting the government contribution ultimately
then cancels out the benefit of that. So it's saying
we're going to the government's going to take money away
from you, and oh, by the way, well you're going
to compensate by saving more of your own money.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Yes, that's generally how savings work should be. It's good
to have you and thank you for coming in. Chris Hopkins,
Labor Party leader.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Right now for more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive, listen
live to news talks it'd be from four pm weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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