Dave Gerrard: former Olympian and Otago University Emeritus Professor on World Athletics introducing one-off gender tests

World Athletics has approved the introduction of cheek swabbing to determine if an athlete is biologically female.

The global body's president Sebastian Coe says the decision is further evidence his organisation will protect the women's category in competition.

The intention is to have the testing in place for September's world championships in Tokyo.

Former Olympian and Otago University Emeritus Professor Dave Gerrard says the science behind the proposed tests is solid - and it's a reliable testing method.

"It's used in common medical practice for genetic issues - and to determine the sex of individuals. So it's sound, and it is sound science." 

LISTEN ABOVE

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Bright, World Athletics is going to make female track and
field athletes do a DNA test to prove they are
biologically female. Athletes will be subject to a non invasive
cheek swab, it's face cheek swab, and a dry blood
spot test, and that would only be done once in
their career. Dave Gerard is a former Olympian emeritus professor

(00:23):
in Sports Medicine at Otaga University. He's with me this evening. Hi, Dave, Oh, Hi, Ryan,
What exactly does the DNA test tell us?

Speaker 2 (00:34):
Well, it confirms, Ryan, whether we are biologically male or female.
And I think this is the contentious issue that has arisen,
and I think it was highlighted at the Olympics in
Paris league controversy over the two boxers who were considered
not to be of the sex in which they were fighting.

(00:58):
And I think this is where the controversy over gender,
which is an affirmation, and sex, which is a biologically
determined fact it can't be changed. I think this is
where the controversy arose, and I think World Athletics are
doing their bit to ensure that people who do compete
in women's events are truly biological female athletes.

Speaker 1 (01:23):
And does is the test accurate? I mean, is it?

Speaker 2 (01:27):
Yes? Yes?

Speaker 1 (01:28):
All right, so no question about that.

Speaker 2 (01:30):
And I want to know if science is very very solid,
and it's been. I mean, it's used in common medical
practice for genetic issues and to determine the sex of individuals.
So it is sound and it is sound science.

Speaker 1 (01:44):
What about this argument that if you have transitioned after
or if you've transitioned, say during teenage, so you've never
had the advantage of testosterone during your formative years, that
might influence you know, your performance later in your career.
Does that come into it? This is quite a line

(02:05):
in the sand, isn't it. It's basically saying if you
were born a female, you're not welcoming athletics.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
No, it's saying, if you were born a biologically female,
you are entitled to compete in women's events. That's conflating
the terms gender and sex. I think when we talk
about males and females, we're talking about sex. When we
talk about men and women, we're talking about your affirmation

(02:33):
as a man or a woman. Yes, which may not
be in accordance with your sex allocated at birth. Does
that make sense? Yes?

Speaker 1 (02:41):
So basically I got it round the wrong way because
it gets confusing when you start to but if you're
born biologically male years then you cannot compete.

Speaker 2 (02:52):
Yeah, no, that's true. I mean the reason we have
what's called the binary and sport is that biological females
and biological males differ from the time of puberty, where
the liberation of testosterone, the male hormone, is ten to
fifteen times higher in males. And it's the difference between

(03:14):
developing stature, strength, muscle power, endurance, and various other factors
which give a discriminator between men and women. It's why
no women's world record in any sport is faster or
higher or longer than any male. It's a question of
fairness and it's an acknowledgment of normal biological development and.

Speaker 1 (03:37):
A nutshell in a word, day Is this the right move?

Speaker 2 (03:41):
I think it is Ryan, and I think it kind
of sidesteps the controversy that arose in Paris, where Thomas Bark,
the IOC president, said, well, as far as I'm concerned,
what's written in their passports and the way that these
two athletes were brought up, In other words, they were
brought up as female is good enough for me. So

(04:02):
he put aside the science, which would have, I think,
put the debate to rest. And he went on a
fairly fundamental and ideological principle of saying, well, you know,
in their passports it says they're women and they've been
brought up as women. That's good enough for me.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
So this is bringing it back to bringing it back
to the science, Dave, which obviously is your field as well.
I appreciate your time, Dave Gerrard, who's a former Olympian
emeritus professor in Sports Medicine at Ottaga University.

Speaker 2 (04:30):
For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen live to
news talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow
the podcast on iHeartRadio