David Carter: former House Speaker on the proposed sanctions set to impact Te Pāti Māori

A former Speaker believes suggested punishments for three Te Pāti Māori MPs falls short.

Parliament's Privileges Committee has recommended suspensions for the three - for their protest haka during voting on the Treaty Principles Bill. 

Parliament will vote next Tuesday on whether to suspend the co-leaders for 21 days, and MP Hana Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke for seven.

David Carter says the haka was 'intimidating' and 'unacceptable'.

"And then to refuse to appear before the Privileges Committee - again, it's yet another contempt of the rules of Parliament."

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Afternoon, Speaker Jerry Browne has suggested that he thinks the
Mary Party MPs are being punished too harshly. He said,
no one's ever been suspended from Parliament for twenty one days.
The max thus far is three. It's very severe and
unprecedented to be punished like this, and he's recommended Parliament
that it doesn't It was reminded rather Parliament that it
doesn't have to do what the Privileged Committee says, but

(00:20):
can actually change the punishment. David Carter is the former
Speaker of the House. David, Hello, Hi, Are you surprised
he said this?

Speaker 2 (00:28):
Yes, I am. His job was to send it to
the Select Committee, to the Privileges Committee, which is the
most powerful select committee in Parliament. His job then, in
my mind, is to report the findings of the Select Committee.
I'm surprised that he'd make the comments of the as.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
Any any idea what would have come over him?

Speaker 2 (00:46):
Well, he obviously thinks the penalties are too severe. If
I'd been there, I would probably have argued that the
penalties weren't severe enough. Why But Jerry's job is to
report it back to Parliament and for Parliament now decide
whether to accept the select Committee report.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
Why do you think they're not harsh enough?

Speaker 2 (01:05):
I've never seen behavior like this. The standards of Parliament
are dropping significantly. We used to have a democracy that
we're proud of. But when you rewatch what happened in
that Harker and the intimidating behavior of those the co
leaders of the Barley Party, that is unacceptable. And then
to refuse to appair before the Privileges Committee again is

(01:28):
yet another contempt of the rules of Parliament.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
Do you think that precedent is a consideration here? Not
just what they've done, but the suggestion that they are
going to do it again or rather deterred, is a consideration?
Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (01:44):
Like?

Speaker 1 (01:44):
Is it a consideration? Do you need to punish them
harshly enough to stop them doing it again?

Speaker 2 (01:49):
I think that's why the Privileges Committee has ruled that
the penalty should be where they are. Bear in mind,
the Mary Party and the Green Party on that Privileges
Committee would argue that there has been no contempt. Labor
did acknowledge that there has been contempt by the actions
of these two members of Parliament. Their only argument is
that the penalties too severe. The Privileges Committee is made

(02:13):
up that represents the composition of Parliament, so the majority
of them, without doubt accepted contempt occurred. The only argument
now is the severity of the penalty.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
David, do you think I mean there's some argument coming
through on the text machine that Jerry needs to take
responsibility for the standards in the House because actually quite
a lot has happened under him. We've had Julian Genter's behavior,
we've had the sea bomb, we've had the Hucker. Is
he to blame for any of this?

Speaker 2 (02:41):
It's very difficult to be the Speaker. You've got to
make decisions which are instant. I think the standards have
dropped considerably and Jerry, therefore, as Speaker has responsible to
lift those standards again. He had an opportunity with the
penalties that have been passed out by the Privileges that
he I'm surprised that he would choose them to criticize

(03:03):
him so soon after the reports tabled in Parliament.

Speaker 1 (03:06):
David, thank you for your time. Always appreciated. This is
David Carter, the former Speaker. For more from Hither Duplessy
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