David Carter: former Speaker of the House on the calls to lift punishments for MPs who led last week's haka in Parliament

A ground-breaking hīkoi of 42,000 people descended on Parliament today, telling lawmakers to kill ACT's Treaty Principles Bill. 

It passed its first reading last week in a session punctuated by Te Pāti Māori's Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke leading a fiery haka and being suspended. 

Bill author, David Seymour, says Parliament Speaker Gerry Brownlee should tighten the rules.

Former Speaker David Carter says Brownlee should possibly pass it on to the Standing Orders Committee. 

"What's very clear as you chair those meetings is - all politicians realise that they may well be in opposition at some stage, so they make rules that actually make our Parliament work."

Police say one person was arrested at today's protest. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Right, good afternoon. So there are calls now for Parliament
to lift the punishment for MPs who pull stunts like
last week's hucker. Both Shane Jones and David see Will
have asked the Speaker, Jerry Brownly, to consider this.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
I think some of the changes, particularly around the use
of social media, have changed the incentives for people's behavior
around the rules of Parliament.

Speaker 3 (00:20):
Now.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
David Carter is a former speaker, is with us now,
Hey David, Hi, Hi, Heather, would you agree with him
that what has happened now is you can get so
much reward on social media for pulling a stunt like
that that it makes it worthwhile.

Speaker 3 (00:32):
I think that's probably the case, and Parliament has the
ability to amend rules. In fact that you're consider amending
the rules, but it's a process that should be taken carefully.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
Carefully, yes, because democracy is important, right, So how far
can you push the punishment?

Speaker 3 (00:47):
Well, the Parliament is the master of its own destiny,
so it has every right to change the rules and
make them quite severe. I wouldn't advocate doing it immediately
in response to the incident last week. I would suggest
is that the Speaker give it some thought and then
perhaps give guidance to the Standing Orders Committee, which it's
every three years. That's a committee that's made up of

(01:10):
very senior means of Parliament, so opposition and government, and
I remember cheering that as the Speaker. What's very clear
as you chair those meetings is that all politicians realize
that they may well be an opposition at some stage,
so they make rules that actually make our parliament work.
So that'd be the opportunity the Standing Orders Review, that'd

(01:30):
be the opportunity to reconsider the penalties and whether they're appropriate.

Speaker 1 (01:34):
So what is the most serious penalty that can be
copped at the moment for something like that, and what
would you move it to.

Speaker 3 (01:40):
Well, the most serious penalty is to name a member
of Parliament, as was done the other day. What happens
then is the part the Speaker moves to name a
particular member of Parliament. Parliament votes on that, so in
effect the peers are judging the behavior of that person.
If you are named for the free time, you are
suspended for twenty four hours. If you are named again

(02:04):
through that parliament a second time, you're suspended for seven days.
And if you're named for a third time, you're suspended
for twenty eight days now, not only as your pay
doct but you lose the right to sit on a committee,
you lose the right to vote in Parliament over that
period of time. So if you've ever got a very

(02:25):
tight parliament and a government member was to be named,
that could make it very difficult for the then government
to pass legislation. It's quite a severe penalty.

Speaker 1 (02:34):
Yeah, although if you're an opposition doesn't mean a lot,
does it.

Speaker 3 (02:37):
It doesn't mean as much except well, this particular member
who's been named seems to see it as a badge
of honor. I don't think it's a badge of honor.
Not a lot of people get named through their parliamentary career.
But if you're in opposition, so accept it's less meaningful.
But as I said earlier, Parliament has the right to
change those rules and make the penalties more severe for naming.

(02:59):
Thank you much.

Speaker 1 (03:00):
We're talking us through at David Carter, former Speaker.

Speaker 3 (03:02):
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