Dr Kate Hadwen: Pymble Ladies’ College Principal on the school's plan to give students 'Wise Phones'

An Australian school is taking a unique approach to educating students about social media and internet safety.

Pymble Ladies’ College has launched a 'Wise Phones' initiative that gives students in Years 4 to 8 age-appropriate smartphones that block social media and the internet until they reach Year 10 or 16 years of age.

Principal Dr Kate Hadwen says it's important to teach kids about the technology slowly as they age - rather than banning phones outright.

"It's a little bit like learning to swim - when we have our children, we don't throw them into the ocean, we teach them slowly and take them with us on the journey. And that's what I believe about the use of technology as well."

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
We told you earlier this week about in Australian school
which is taking a new approach to limiting kids' screen
time use. So what that thought is instead of outright
banning cell phones, you know, smartphones and stuff like that,
they are offering students from year four to year eight
age appropriate smartphones, so they call them wise phones and
this teaches the kids slowly how to use them safety.
And so we have the principle of Pimble Ladies College

(00:21):
Doctor Kate Hadwin.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Hey Kate, Hi Hannah, how are you very well?

Speaker 1 (00:26):
Thank you Kate. Is this basically you guys responding to
the recognition that these smartphones that we have in our
lives nowadays are incredibly addictive for kids.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
Yes, it is. We are trying to reclaim childhood for
our young people. That's what we're focused on.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
Right, And so the problem, as far as I can
see it is how do you hold the line right.
The kids want them, the parents feel pressure. This is
a compromise where the group acts together to say you
can have this, but you can't have the smartphone.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
Yeah, that's exactly right. Peers are so important for young people,
particularly teenagers, and so if we can do something where
everybody's in, then we're much more likely to have a
good outcome.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
So why did you decide to introduce something like a
wise phone, or like a partially dumb phone, rather than
just saying absolutely no phones until yet the age of sixteen.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
I guess, first of all, Heather, it's a little bit
like learning to swim that when we have our children,
we don't throw them into the ocean. We teach them
slowly and take them with us on the journey. And
that's what I believe about the use of technology as well.
Technology is a wonderful enabler for so many things, but
young people need to be taught. We need to teach
them how to use phones wisely. And so that's why

(01:37):
we think this is a great approach because we can
allow them to do that.

Speaker 1 (01:41):
And what are they able to have them in class?
Are they able to compare ands call them with the
phone sitting there?

Speaker 2 (01:47):
Absolutely not?

Speaker 1 (01:50):
So when are they allowed to have them?

Speaker 2 (01:51):
And look, they have them in their lockers. And really
part of the challenge, Heather, is when they take them home,
because it's so difficult for families, it's so so difficult,
and we know that our families are really struggling. And
we also know that social media acronyms, all the way
that social media is developed is done so that we

(02:13):
do have young people become addicted to their devices, and
that's a difficult thing to overcome as a parent. So
we're trying to work, or we are working with our
parents in tandem to come up with a solution that
works at school but also works at home.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
Well, what are you worried about happening at home?

Speaker 2 (02:28):
Oh? Well, young people use their technology and have opportunities
to sit there and scroll and scroll, and our parents
are saying to us, please help us, please.

Speaker 1 (02:37):
Help these wise phones don't allow them, do.

Speaker 2 (02:38):
They No, they don't know, and that's the beauty of it.
So they don't actually have they don't have apps on
them that allow them to do that. So in year four,
for example, they can make calls, send texts, they have
a clock, a calendar, maps, that's about it. When they
get into year five there's a camera, tap, payment, some
school related apps. So they don't actually even have access

(03:00):
to a chat group until they reach year seven.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
And how old is that?

Speaker 2 (03:04):
Way? We can do that our twelve.

Speaker 1 (03:06):
Okay, now have you t e and twelve? Right? So Kate.
Have you read Jonathan Hayate's book The Anxious Generation?

Speaker 2 (03:12):
Certainly have? Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
One of the points that he makes in that and
look at his primary point, especially with the girls obviously,
is the addictiveness of and the boys the addictiveness of
the social media and the smartphone. But sub problem is
the fact that when they get onto these chat groups
and stuff, you can't control the bullying that's happening and
coming straight into the bedroom. That's still a problem, isn't it.

(03:34):
If these kids can text each other, call each other,
chat group each other, even at eleven and twelve, you've
still got a potential bullying problem, don't.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
You, Yes, we do. But the incredible thing about the
Wise phone is that if that occurs, then we can
actually remove that particular chat app for a period of time,
which is an absolute game changer.

Speaker 1 (03:54):
Like remotely you can take it off.

Speaker 2 (03:57):
Well, we would sit with the families and with the
chill dren and talk about it, and just like if
you're at home and it was in any other circumstance
it was a technology related and your child was doing
the wrong thing, then they would lose the right to
have access to that yea. For through a period of time.
So again it's that training them that you know, yes,
if you do this, there will be consequences. So that's

(04:18):
one of the real beauties of this solution. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:20):
Interesting, Okay, So what happens then at sixteen year ten
when they finally get access to everything? Can they have
a smartphone?

Speaker 2 (04:26):
Then? Of course yes, absolutely, and the y phone is
a smart phone. It's just that we've managed to control
the apps that they have access to, so they can
still have that hardware effectively. But it's just that they
have access to everything.

Speaker 1 (04:43):
They can't get around us cake kids us smart. They
can't get around this and download stuff you don't know about.

Speaker 2 (04:48):
Aren't they. I love the way they're smart and they
always challenge our thinking. I love that about our young people. No,
they can't. Now, what they can do is access social
media on their laptops if they choose to. But we're
trying to create point of friction, Heather, right, you know,
to make it a little bit more painful, a little
bit more annoying, because you know, we know research says
that if we can just give young people one to
three seconds of thinking time, the responses that they have

(05:12):
will be entirely different. So creating a bit more friction
for them we hope will lead to an outcome where
they learn, you know, where they learn how to use
these things wisely before they have access to them.

Speaker 1 (05:22):
Kate Listen, thanks very much, really appreciated doctor Kate Hadwin,
Who's the principle of Pimble Ladies College.

Speaker 2 (05:28):
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Speaker 1 (05:31):
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