January 22, 2025 • 8 mins
A media commentator says cuts at NZME are just the latest in a troubled industry.
NZ Herald and Newstalk ZB owner NZME is proposing a restructure, with a net loss of about 38 roles.
Spinoff founder Duncan Grieve says all around the world massive cuts are taking place while other brands disappear completely.
He says it's not a problem which is likely to go away.
"It wouldn't shock me if this was just setting off another year of that - and it might not be anything like the biggest we're going to see."
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's a heavy old day at this company. Almost forty
rolls are set to be cut at The Herald's business
desk and news TALKZBB. Now all these three brands are
owned by New Zealand Media and Entertainment, commonly known as
ennzed ME. We are restructuring our newsroom operation. The editor
of The Herald has said in the press that the
(00:22):
annual print advertising has fallen by ten million dollars between
twenty twenty two and twenty twenty four. Digital advertising was
also down the same period, but not to the same extent.
But when you don't have ten million dollars worth of income,
you can't employ all the people you used to be
able to employ. We asked Murray if you'd talk with us.
He would not. We also ask anybody from nz ME
to talk with us. They would not. So today we're
(00:44):
going to talk to Duncan Grieve, who has been with
the spinoff and I at the spinoff. He hosts the
Fold Media Bud Gass.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Hello Duncan Today, Andrew.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
So it finally hit nzb ME because it's already hit
TV and z news Hub and basically the rest of
the industry including you.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Yeah, that's correct. I mean, it's not like this is
the first time means me has been hit, but it's
probably the hardest that's been hit.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
So some people say it's because of politics, but of
course we kind of know if you're in the industry,
that's just bolded at. I actually had a cup of
coffee with Murray kirkness over in a cafe and he see,
what people don't understand is that this is an industry
wide problem. It's an industry wide problem in New Zealand
and in fact it's an industry wide problem right around
the world. Is he right, Yeah, he's absolutely right.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Like if you if you paid too much attention to
the media, as I have the misfortune of doing this.
This is a weekly you know, all all over the
world you see like massive job cuts, but you also say,
you know, as we did last year with news, have
you see brands just disappearing completely? So you know in
(01:59):
New Zealand and unlike a lot of the other sort
of anglosphere countries, you know, it's it's economy is going
backwards there, you know, the media and other countries is
going backwards even though their economies are going forward. So
in some you know, bleak respects it's surprising to me
that there's not more, you know, more and deeper cuts.
(02:23):
And you know, it wouldn't shock me if this was
just setting off another year of that, and and it
might not be anything like the biggest we're going to see.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Is it because the public have lost trust in the media.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
I don't. I wouldn't want to completely discount that, but
I think that it's the public has never completely trusted
the media. Let's be honest, And you know, some pains
to say that. What matters less is whether you trust
the media as a whole as an institution. It metters
whether you trust the media you consume just the same
as you know, you might not trust one lot of politicians,
(03:00):
but as long as you trust your local electorate MP,
you're okay. I think the much bigger problem is that
we've got it. We've just got a sort of a
structural issue with the sort of financial underpinnings of the media.
It was previously wholly and relatively well funded by advertising.
Now it's increasingly audiences which have to pay, and it's
(03:24):
just taking a while for people to realize that. And
the longer it takes, the smaller it gets.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
And that means we don't have journalists, And the question
will be, because there has been just the most remarkable year,
do we have enough journalists left in the country to
properly report the news? Because you know, these social citizen
journalists who are on social media, they believe they can
report the news, but many of them are actually finding
the news from a real journalist who works in legacy
media and then forwarding their spin on it.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yeah, I think, I mean, that's a perfect encapsulation of it.
I think that people when people say they get their
news from TikTok or Facebook or Instagram, most commonly what
they're talking about is someone who will recap particular elements
of the news, whether it's in a vertical video or
a two hundred and eighty character format. But those people
(04:13):
aren't almost never doing their doing original reporting. They're just
simply reading original reporting from somewhere else and broadcasting it
to their audience. So you know, your fundamental problem remains.
You know, the work of journalism is hard and expensive
and not always popular, but they're the mechanism to fund
(04:36):
its production just just isn't there anymore. And that's why
you know that the their Digital News Bargaining Bill has
been such a contentious issue lately. But the idea that
social media can replace what you know, journalism did as
does as a as a function for society and democracy
as article and doesn't stand up to even the most
(04:57):
basic scrutiny.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Okay, so what have we got for a business model?
Michael bogs Boggsy as we call them our cego says
video is a fast growing area where Z of me
could grow its audience. Now, to be fair, none of
us know what he's talking about, do you?
Speaker 2 (05:14):
I mean I do to an extent that there's sort
of you know, there's there's two key revenue trends for journalism,
right like there's there's audiences and there's advertisers. Advertisers and
particularly the media agencies that represent them, really love video advertising.
It's a close cousin to TV advertising, which used to
be you know, the biggest noise in media is from
(05:37):
a funding perspective, So everyone people still want to buy that.
So if you can create inventory, then plausibly you know
that that's a that's a great business. The thing is,
I think when someone goes to the Herald site or
goes to the news b site, they want to consume
a particular form. Maybe it's audio, maybe it's text. The
(05:59):
video is, for the most part autoplays. It's a bit
of an annoyance where the Herald, I think, potentially have
a point and a play is on YouTube, which is
rapidly becoming the biggest thing in advertising anywhere, and the
Herald's actually had some real success with putting video, whether
it's short documentaries or just news breaking news packages on
(06:22):
there and that has a fifty five to forty five
revenue share. Yeah, okay, so there is a case there.
It's not proven, but it's plausible.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Absolutely, it's plausible. But at the same time, I know,
being in the industry, we were told the podcasts with
the futures, but we still haven't quite figured out how
to monetize podcasts. And if we could, because we do
such great podcasts, we wouldn't have the problems that we've
got at the moment. Anyway, Can I just ask you, finally,
how are you going at the spin off? Because when
you hit these walls of advertising drying up, you went
(06:53):
to get more paying subscribers to that bear Fruit.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Yeah, well we're sort of you know, as Shane reported
on last year, we hit a bit of a wall
in November of last year, and we wrote an open
letter which which kind of laid out to our audience
what was going on and what we needed them to do.
And we're by no means out of the woods, but
(07:19):
we've been really really heartened by their response. And I
do think there's something in saying to your audience, this
is how it has to be and letting them decide
ultimately the scale of your organization. So you know, if
you're listening to this and you enjoy the Herald but
you're not a subscriber, I would strongly suggest that if
(07:39):
you want it to be around, and you want it
to continue to provide the function that does for you
in your life, that you don't just look at the
free version that you that you pick up A paid's
up too, all right, and.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
I thank you for your time. Dow can grieve for
more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Listen live to news talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
It's a heavy old day at this company. Almost forty
rolls are set to be cut at The Herald's business
desk and news TALKZBB. Now all these three brands are
owned by New Zealand Media and Entertainment, commonly known as
ennzed ME. We are restructuring our newsroom operation. The editor
of The Herald has said in the press that the
(00:22):
annual print advertising has fallen by ten million dollars between
twenty twenty two and twenty twenty four. Digital advertising was
also down the same period, but not to the same extent.
But when you don't have ten million dollars worth of income,
you can't employ all the people you used to be
able to employ. We asked Murray if you'd talk with us.
He would not. We also ask anybody from nz ME
to talk with us. They would not. So today we're
(00:44):
going to talk to Duncan Grieve, who has been with
the spinoff and I at the spinoff. He hosts the
Fold Media Bud Gass.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Hello Duncan Today, Andrew.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
So it finally hit nzb ME because it's already hit
TV and z news Hub and basically the rest of
the industry including you.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Yeah, that's correct. I mean, it's not like this is
the first time means me has been hit, but it's
probably the hardest that's been hit.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
So some people say it's because of politics, but of
course we kind of know if you're in the industry,
that's just bolded at. I actually had a cup of
coffee with Murray kirkness over in a cafe and he see,
what people don't understand is that this is an industry
wide problem. It's an industry wide problem in New Zealand
and in fact it's an industry wide problem right around
the world. Is he right, Yeah, he's absolutely right.
Speaker 2 (01:35):
Like if you if you paid too much attention to
the media, as I have the misfortune of doing this.
This is a weekly you know, all all over the
world you see like massive job cuts, but you also say,
you know, as we did last year with news, have
you see brands just disappearing completely? So you know in
(01:59):
New Zealand and unlike a lot of the other sort
of anglosphere countries, you know, it's it's economy is going
backwards there, you know, the media and other countries is
going backwards even though their economies are going forward. So
in some you know, bleak respects it's surprising to me
that there's not more, you know, more and deeper cuts.
(02:23):
And you know, it wouldn't shock me if this was
just setting off another year of that, and and it
might not be anything like the biggest we're going to see.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
Is it because the public have lost trust in the media.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
I don't. I wouldn't want to completely discount that, but
I think that it's the public has never completely trusted
the media. Let's be honest, And you know, some pains
to say that. What matters less is whether you trust
the media as a whole as an institution. It metters
whether you trust the media you consume just the same
as you know, you might not trust one lot of politicians,
(03:00):
but as long as you trust your local electorate MP,
you're okay. I think the much bigger problem is that
we've got it. We've just got a sort of a
structural issue with the sort of financial underpinnings of the media.
It was previously wholly and relatively well funded by advertising.
Now it's increasingly audiences which have to pay, and it's
(03:24):
just taking a while for people to realize that. And
the longer it takes, the smaller it gets.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
And that means we don't have journalists, And the question
will be, because there has been just the most remarkable year,
do we have enough journalists left in the country to
properly report the news? Because you know, these social citizen
journalists who are on social media, they believe they can
report the news, but many of them are actually finding
the news from a real journalist who works in legacy
media and then forwarding their spin on it.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
Yeah, I think, I mean, that's a perfect encapsulation of it.
I think that people when people say they get their
news from TikTok or Facebook or Instagram, most commonly what
they're talking about is someone who will recap particular elements
of the news, whether it's in a vertical video or
a two hundred and eighty character format. But those people
(04:13):
aren't almost never doing their doing original reporting. They're just
simply reading original reporting from somewhere else and broadcasting it
to their audience. So you know, your fundamental problem remains.
You know, the work of journalism is hard and expensive
and not always popular, but they're the mechanism to fund
(04:36):
its production just just isn't there anymore. And that's why
you know that the their Digital News Bargaining Bill has
been such a contentious issue lately. But the idea that
social media can replace what you know, journalism did as
does as a as a function for society and democracy
as article and doesn't stand up to even the most
(04:57):
basic scrutiny.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
Okay, so what have we got for a business model?
Michael bogs Boggsy as we call them our cego says
video is a fast growing area where Z of me
could grow its audience. Now, to be fair, none of
us know what he's talking about, do you?
Speaker 2 (05:14):
I mean I do to an extent that there's sort
of you know, there's there's two key revenue trends for journalism,
right like there's there's audiences and there's advertisers. Advertisers and
particularly the media agencies that represent them, really love video advertising.
It's a close cousin to TV advertising, which used to
be you know, the biggest noise in media is from
(05:37):
a funding perspective, So everyone people still want to buy that.
So if you can create inventory, then plausibly you know
that that's a that's a great business. The thing is,
I think when someone goes to the Herald site or
goes to the news b site, they want to consume
a particular form. Maybe it's audio, maybe it's text. The
(05:59):
video is, for the most part autoplays. It's a bit
of an annoyance where the Herald, I think, potentially have
a point and a play is on YouTube, which is
rapidly becoming the biggest thing in advertising anywhere, and the
Herald's actually had some real success with putting video, whether
it's short documentaries or just news breaking news packages on
(06:22):
there and that has a fifty five to forty five
revenue share. Yeah, okay, so there is a case there.
It's not proven, but it's plausible.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Absolutely, it's plausible. But at the same time, I know,
being in the industry, we were told the podcasts with
the futures, but we still haven't quite figured out how
to monetize podcasts. And if we could, because we do
such great podcasts, we wouldn't have the problems that we've
got at the moment. Anyway, Can I just ask you, finally,
how are you going at the spin off? Because when
you hit these walls of advertising drying up, you went
(06:53):
to get more paying subscribers to that bear Fruit.
Speaker 2 (06:57):
Yeah, well we're sort of you know, as Shane reported
on last year, we hit a bit of a wall
in November of last year, and we wrote an open
letter which which kind of laid out to our audience
what was going on and what we needed them to do.
And we're by no means out of the woods, but
(07:19):
we've been really really heartened by their response. And I
do think there's something in saying to your audience, this
is how it has to be and letting them decide
ultimately the scale of your organization. So you know, if
you're listening to this and you enjoy the Herald but
you're not a subscriber, I would strongly suggest that if
(07:39):
you want it to be around, and you want it
to continue to provide the function that does for you
in your life, that you don't just look at the
free version that you that you pick up A paid's
up too, all right, and.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
I thank you for your time. Dow can grieve for
more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
Listen live to news talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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