Fleur Fitzsimons: acting National Secretary of the PSA pushes back against Government's remote work restrictions

The Public Service Association has filed a claim with the Employment Relations Authority to stop the Government restricting flexible workplace practices.

The PSA has argued the new directives on working from home violate its existing agreement with the Government. 

Fleur Fitzsimons, the acting National Secretary of the PSA, says the Government has failed to take the Gender Pay Principles into account.

"One of them is that agencies normalise flexible and part-time working arrangements for all employees. So our concern, really, is that the recent Government directive has failed to take into account the commitments under the Gender Pay Principles."

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Public Service Association is taking legal action to stop
the government's new working from home rules. It's filed acclaimed
with the Employment Relations Authority, arguing the director violates its
agreement with the government. Acting National Secretary of the Public
Service Association as Flirth that Simons she's with me this evening,
flurgred gave a good afternoon.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
I should say good afternoon.

Speaker 1 (00:19):
So we're in your agreement. Does it guarantee working from home?

Speaker 2 (00:24):
Well, in a number of employment agreements there is reference
to flexible working, including working from home. And actually the
union movement and the employer, through the Public Service Commission,
agreed to a series of principles called the Gender Pay Principles,
and one of them is that agencies normalize flexible and
part time working arrangements for all employees. So our concern

(00:47):
really is that the government recent government directive has failed
to take into account the commitments under the Gender Pay
Principles and those in a number of employment agreements.

Speaker 1 (00:56):
What is working from home got to do with whether
you're a woman or a man.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
Well, and it does affect everybody. But this was done
in the context of recognizing that women predominantly take on
more caring responsibilities. But look, it will also impact people
with chronic health conditions, people with disabilities, and in the end,
it could be good for everybody if we managed to
tune around this government directive.

Speaker 1 (01:20):
But you're hanging this this legal challenge. You're hanging this
on the gender issue, and you know, basically saying that
without working for home, you're discriminating against women.

Speaker 2 (01:31):
Yeah, that's right, and that's because the government committed to
addressing the gender pay gap that exists in the public
service agencies. And one of the ways it committed to
doing that is by making sure that workplaces reflect what
the needs of women. And it's actually a legal requirement
on them anyway.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
Yeah, but I mean men, what are you saying men
don't look after their kids?

Speaker 2 (01:54):
No, absolutely not, And this I.

Speaker 1 (01:57):
Say so men look after their kids, Women look after
their kids. Just I mean, I guess the point is,
does work not discriminate against everyone? I mean, many people
would like to be other places doing other things, but
the reality is, if you want to be paid and
you want to have a job, you've got to be
at work.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
Well. The great thing about our litigation is that if
we are successful, it will apply to men and women
and It will mean that people who have the ability
to work from home and work flexibly and can do
that in a way that enhances their ability to do
their job and that works for them, will be able
to do this. So, yes, we're advancing it because of
a gender pay princi. Well that's our legal argument, but

(02:35):
actually any outcome if we're successful, will apply to everyone,
and that's good news for all workers. All right.

Speaker 1 (02:40):
For do you know what the legal costs will be
for your members?

Speaker 2 (02:44):
We're not anticipating it will be high. We're hoping that
we will be able to settle this dispute with Takua
matah or the Public Service Commission and move on and
really make sure that people can keep using the flexible
working provisions they have, which we know work for employers
and for weeks people.

Speaker 1 (03:00):
All right, thank you very much for your time. For
great to have you on the show that it's the
acting National Secretary of the PSA Flurthit Simons. For more
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