Iain Chapman: Oranga Tamariki Deputy CEO discusses 'military-style' bootcamps for serious youth offenders

An Oranga Tamariki Youth Justice senior leader's keen to see youth offender boot camps continue beyond the pilot. 

The 12-month military-style camp trial with 10 of New Zealand's most serious young offenders has wrapped. 

Eight completed the programme, seven re-offended requiring them to return to camp, and one passed away in a road accident. 

Oranga Tamariki Deputy CEO Ian Chapman says this was the last stop shop before a life in corrections. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
So back home. The bootcamp pilot has officially ended. Eight
out of the twelve participants finished the program. Orrongataboiki has
called the program a success, but amidst seven of them,
seven of the participants did reoffend to a threshold that
required them to return to the residents for a time.
Ian Chapman is the Deputy Chief Executive of Youth Justice
Services at ot han Hi.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Hey, how are you.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
I'm well, thank you. So why do we think it's
a success, So.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
In the context of these particular young men's lives, So
it's an individual thing where we're looking at the life cycle,
what was leading up to the residential stay in the
MSA In the first place, we're talking about ten of
the most prolific young offenders in the country were involved
in this program and often had multiple residential stays throughout

(00:46):
the early teams up and too the point of the MSA.
Following that, what we've seen as a reduction in severity
of offending. We've seen an increased length of time out
in the community, and in a couple of occasions, we've
seen kids completely turn their lives around. So on an
individual basis, there's absolutely some successes.

Speaker 1 (01:01):
Okay, so you think there are two kids who have changed,
they're not going to do this stuff anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yeah. Look, I mean I can never predict into the future,
but what we're seeing now one young man has effectively
shunned his friend group that that negative influence has turned
to sports. Sports been a common factor in a couple
of kids' lives. We are seeing him wanting to all
have his tattoos removed, which is quite a remarkable thing
for a kid that age. It's sort of a real

(01:28):
signal that he's wanting to turn his life around and
remove that stigma. Yeah. So the reality is is that
we probably still have a long way to go, but
we are seeing really good science.

Speaker 1 (01:39):
And what about the other one?

Speaker 2 (01:42):
So the other kids, look, there are no.

Speaker 1 (01:45):
No, no, Sorry you said that there were two successful kids.
So one one's taken up sport wants to get his
tats off. What about the other one?

Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yeah, the other one likewise sports. So he's just been
selected for a regional team and has chosen sport. Again,
that's no main feat for any kid. So you know,
sporting is a bit of a common threat. It's certainly
something that we're going to lean on for any future iteration.

Speaker 1 (02:04):
Are you going to I mean the important thing here
for these guys, because they get drawn so easily, Kids
get drawn so easily back into the as you say,
the friendship group and the famili's misbehavior and stuff. Do
you guys continue to be in their lives?

Speaker 2 (02:16):
Yeah, one hundred percent, where As these kids are aging
out so that you know, our legal jurisdiction over them,
if you like, expires as they transition into adulthood. But
we don't leave it there. We've got a variety of
people both within our organization, our NGOs, our partner agencies,
who have got a vested interest in this and we
want to make sure that they can. They are set

(02:37):
up to succeed. They'll still have social workers, they'll still
have contact with the with their mentors. But then also
it's the wider family groups. So we've got a bunch
of parents who sat across these kids who are now
joined up, engaging with us and each other as a
parental group, taking parental you know, horses and all that
solonggoing along with the wider family. This is the other

(02:58):
key thing, right, So if you're taking a purely preventative angle,
you've got kids who are siblings. The are in big families,
and it's the younger siblings looking up at these old
ones through in the NSA, and we're looking to the
end of the future to say, actually, there's different parts
that we can take. So yeah, there's a much broader
picture than just these kids in this program.

Speaker 1 (03:16):
Ian tell me this, not as a public servant working
to this government, but as a human. Do you think
we should keep running these programs?

Speaker 2 (03:24):
Yeah, look to completely honest whither, I absolutely do. I'm
a parent. I've got a a you know, seventeen year
old son. What we're offering these kids in residents. You know,
thankfully my son isn't in the same circumstance, but if
he was, i'd really actually, I would hope that as

(03:45):
a country, we can come together and recognize that there
is a this is the last stop shop for these
kids before they spend a life in corrections. You know,
this really is at that point agen for them to
even get into residents in the first place. They really
are at that final stage before they pushed through into
the corrections. You know, that's a life in jail, in
and out of jail. We want to cut that. So, yeah, absolutely,

(04:06):
we want to make sure that as a country, as
New Zealand an that we're actually really pulling up the
stops when it comes to the interventions for these kids.
So you know, the trauma that they've been through the
reality is that this is stuff that you or I
and most of the public we're never even fathom. So yeah,
I absolutely do think that there's a case for this
in the future.

Speaker 1 (04:25):
Ian, Thanks very much for your answer. I appreciate it.
Ian Chapman, Deputy Chief Executive Youth Justice Services at OT.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
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