The Green Party has accused the Government of having a three-quarter-billion dollar hole in the Budget.
As part of the 2025 Budget, released last week, the Government announced that the default KiwiSaver contribution for employees and employers would lift to 4 percent.
But the Greens say the Government had not accounted for that increase for its own employees in its books, and over the Budget forecast period it could add up to $714 million in costs.
Newstalk ZB political editor Jason Walls says Nicola Willis has since shrugged off the accusations.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Jason Wall's political editors with US. Hello Jason, Hello, Hello.
Fiscal holes. Ay, so the Greens reckon they found one.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Don't say it. Don't say the word I'm sick of.
I had flashbacks to the press conference in Steven Joyce's
off us back in twenty seventeen. But no, so it's
I'll take you through it because it's not a fiscal
hole per se. But it doesn't mean the government's completely
clean either. The Green said the government had not accounted
for the increase for its own employees and its books.
When it comes to that three to four percent increase
(00:30):
in the ki ki we saver changes and the government,
you know it would hit the government quite hard. The
government employees about sixty two to sixty five thousand people,
so having that liability on your books it was always
going to be a fair chunk of change. The Greens are,
They're correct. There's no specific line in the budget that
says how much this is actually going to cost the government.
(00:51):
There are no actual numbers, but what it is in
is something called the Specific Fiscal Risks section of the budget.
That is a sex section where officials kind of note
some of the bigger issues that will cost a lot
of money that can't necessarily be quantified at this given time,
think of like a big earthquake in Wellington or something
like that. So it is in the specific Fiscal Risk section.
(01:14):
It is very thin. It's very thin. It's on page
ninety two of the Budget and Economic Fiscal Update the BIFU,
and it says, in addition, when it's talking about public
sector employment agreements, there may be increased costs arising from
increases in employer can we savor contributions following budget twenty
twenty five decisions. So it's way for thin in terms
(01:36):
of the details. The Greens say it's between six hundred
and seven hundred million of thereabouts, but it's technically the
thing is and Nikola Willis kind of explains it this,
she explained it this afternoon, is that the government have
been unable to quantify that, and she decided to when
she was talking about it today kind of take a
(01:57):
aim at the Greens rather than the issue itself.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Well, I won't be taking any mass lessons from Chloe's warbrick.
The only whole I've seen is the eighty eight billion
dollar hole she wants to dig in New Zealander's pockets
with her proposed new taxes and the forty four billion
dollar debt hole she wants to dig for our country.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
And you know, it's an easy hit for the minister.
But then she actually goes on to kind of confirm
what the Greens have been saying.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
The specific issue she refers to was specified as a
fiscal risk in the budget documents, and we will now
be working with individual government agencies to identify what potential
costs they could face in order to meet these new
key we saver requirements. Will assess that information and then
make a judgment about where the agencies do in fact
need any additional funding to meet those commitments. We don't
(02:44):
have that information yet, so it's too soon to make
a judgment.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
So in conclusion, the government does need to come up
with the money. It wasn't in this year's budget. But
it's not a whole per se because the government always
knew that they had to fund it, they just didn't
know how much.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
How much it was.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
Yes, Now, what do you think of the People's sounds
very very communist. China doesn't the People Select Committee it does.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
That was the first thing that I thought when I
went to the press conference this morning. It does have
sort of big Communist, big grand Hall of the People
in China vibes, but you know it to be fair,
it is a pretty stacked cast of people on this committee.
It's Marilyn Wearing, of course, needs no introduction. You've got
Jackie Blue a former GNAT, Joe Hayes a former NAT.
You've got people like Lean Deeza Dezel there, You've got
(03:28):
Steve Chadwick. Nanaima Huta is there as well in Sue Bradford.
So it's actually a good mix of National New Zealand
first with a couple of Labor and the Greens sprinkled
in as well. And it was Marilyn Wearing that put
this whole thing together. And it's not that she's opposed
to the changes for pay equity per se. It's more
that she's not happy that the Select Committee process had
(03:50):
been somewhat circumvented. Here's what she told us.
Speaker 5 (03:54):
I'm hardly one to worry. I sat on a parliament
bel that was the deviled by urgency under Muldoon for
you know, many on many occasions.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
So I asked this it was it was it Robert
Muldoon was was he in mind when she was forming
this group.
Speaker 5 (04:11):
No, No, I don't think of him at all.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Been there, done that, being there, done that on Robert Muldoon.
She's one of the few people that can say something
like that. But I guess the question comes back to
will this have any impact on the government's planned pay
equity plans. Here's what Nicola Willis told us.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Well, we've already passed the law, so people are free
to share their views on it and to have debate.
But with the government has already made up its mind
on this issue.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
So that's a it's a firm no. But this issue
isn't going to go away quietly as long as this
committee is around.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
You ever heard of Belinda Vernon before?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
I have heard of Belinda Vernon. Yes, she was one
of the people that because she's on this committee and
that before that. Honestly, now, are you going to tell
me that she's really important I'm about political editor.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
No, No, not at all.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
No, No, I think you took enough beating from me
last week. You will have heard of Jackie Blue and
Joe Hayes, right, because they were jack time.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Yeah, Jackie Blue was my MP at Mount Roskill when
I was yeah. And I actually went up to Jackie
Blue one day and I said, what what does it
take for me to become a politician? And she give
me this whole long list of things and not going
to do it from my mind, but.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
It was just like, yeah, Lynn Play do you remember her?
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (05:25):
No, no, that one.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
I think You've made my point for me. It's hardly
Paula Bennetts and Helen Clark's is it.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
You got to get Nanaiama hooter.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
You know.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Sue Bradford, like Nanoia, was one of the laziest MPs around.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
But she was still a minister of the crowd.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
The ministers and they sit around doing nothing and she's
the prime example of it.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
And you should be on the Bradford.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
I just quite like what they're doing. Sue Bradford.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
You're right, Sue Bradford is a Sue Bradford actually doesn't
deserve to be in this list with all of these people.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Anyway, Thanks very much, Jason, appreciate it. Jason Wall's News
Talks'd be Political. Send more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive.
Speaker 5 (06:02):
Listen live to News Talk set B from four pm weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio,
Jason Wall's political editors with US. Hello Jason, Hello, Hello.
Fiscal holes. Ay, so the Greens reckon they found one.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Don't say it. Don't say the word I'm sick of.
I had flashbacks to the press conference in Steven Joyce's
off us back in twenty seventeen. But no, so it's
I'll take you through it because it's not a fiscal
hole per se. But it doesn't mean the government's completely
clean either. The Green said the government had not accounted
for the increase for its own employees and its books.
When it comes to that three to four percent increase
(00:30):
in the ki ki we saver changes and the government,
you know it would hit the government quite hard. The
government employees about sixty two to sixty five thousand people,
so having that liability on your books it was always
going to be a fair chunk of change. The Greens are,
They're correct. There's no specific line in the budget that
says how much this is actually going to cost the government.
(00:51):
There are no actual numbers, but what it is in
is something called the Specific Fiscal Risks section of the budget.
That is a sex section where officials kind of note
some of the bigger issues that will cost a lot
of money that can't necessarily be quantified at this given time,
think of like a big earthquake in Wellington or something
like that. So it is in the specific Fiscal Risk section.
(01:14):
It is very thin. It's very thin. It's on page
ninety two of the Budget and Economic Fiscal Update the BIFU,
and it says, in addition, when it's talking about public
sector employment agreements, there may be increased costs arising from
increases in employer can we savor contributions following budget twenty
twenty five decisions. So it's way for thin in terms
(01:36):
of the details. The Greens say it's between six hundred
and seven hundred million of thereabouts, but it's technically the
thing is and Nikola Willis kind of explains it this,
she explained it this afternoon, is that the government have
been unable to quantify that, and she decided to when
she was talking about it today kind of take a
(01:57):
aim at the Greens rather than the issue itself.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Well, I won't be taking any mass lessons from Chloe's warbrick.
The only whole I've seen is the eighty eight billion
dollar hole she wants to dig in New Zealander's pockets
with her proposed new taxes and the forty four billion
dollar debt hole she wants to dig for our country.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
And you know, it's an easy hit for the minister.
But then she actually goes on to kind of confirm
what the Greens have been saying.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
The specific issue she refers to was specified as a
fiscal risk in the budget documents, and we will now
be working with individual government agencies to identify what potential
costs they could face in order to meet these new
key we saver requirements. Will assess that information and then
make a judgment about where the agencies do in fact
need any additional funding to meet those commitments. We don't
(02:44):
have that information yet, so it's too soon to make
a judgment.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
So in conclusion, the government does need to come up
with the money. It wasn't in this year's budget. But
it's not a whole per se because the government always
knew that they had to fund it, they just didn't
know how much.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
How much it was.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
Yes, Now, what do you think of the People's sounds
very very communist. China doesn't the People Select Committee it does.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
That was the first thing that I thought when I
went to the press conference this morning. It does have
sort of big Communist, big grand Hall of the People
in China vibes, but you know it to be fair,
it is a pretty stacked cast of people on this committee.
It's Marilyn Wearing, of course, needs no introduction. You've got
Jackie Blue a former GNAT, Joe Hayes a former NAT.
You've got people like Lean Deeza Dezel there, You've got
(03:28):
Steve Chadwick. Nanaima Huta is there as well in Sue Bradford.
So it's actually a good mix of National New Zealand
first with a couple of Labor and the Greens sprinkled
in as well. And it was Marilyn Wearing that put
this whole thing together. And it's not that she's opposed
to the changes for pay equity per se. It's more
that she's not happy that the Select Committee process had
(03:50):
been somewhat circumvented. Here's what she told us.
Speaker 5 (03:54):
I'm hardly one to worry. I sat on a parliament
bel that was the deviled by urgency under Muldoon for
you know, many on many occasions.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
So I asked this it was it was it Robert
Muldoon was was he in mind when she was forming
this group.
Speaker 5 (04:11):
No, No, I don't think of him at all.
Speaker 2 (04:17):
Been there, done that, being there, done that on Robert Muldoon.
She's one of the few people that can say something
like that. But I guess the question comes back to
will this have any impact on the government's planned pay
equity plans. Here's what Nicola Willis told us.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Well, we've already passed the law, so people are free
to share their views on it and to have debate.
But with the government has already made up its mind
on this issue.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
So that's a it's a firm no. But this issue
isn't going to go away quietly as long as this
committee is around.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
You ever heard of Belinda Vernon before?
Speaker 2 (04:50):
I have heard of Belinda Vernon. Yes, she was one
of the people that because she's on this committee and
that before that. Honestly, now, are you going to tell
me that she's really important I'm about political editor.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
No, No, not at all.
Speaker 4 (05:02):
No, No, I think you took enough beating from me
last week. You will have heard of Jackie Blue and
Joe Hayes, right, because they were jack time.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Yeah, Jackie Blue was my MP at Mount Roskill when
I was yeah. And I actually went up to Jackie
Blue one day and I said, what what does it
take for me to become a politician? And she give
me this whole long list of things and not going
to do it from my mind, but.
Speaker 1 (05:22):
It was just like, yeah, Lynn Play do you remember her?
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (05:25):
No, no, that one.
Speaker 4 (05:27):
I think You've made my point for me. It's hardly
Paula Bennetts and Helen Clark's is it.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
You got to get Nanaiama hooter.
Speaker 3 (05:34):
You know.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
Sue Bradford, like Nanoia, was one of the laziest MPs around.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
But she was still a minister of the crowd.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
The ministers and they sit around doing nothing and she's
the prime example of it.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
And you should be on the Bradford.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
I just quite like what they're doing. Sue Bradford.
Speaker 4 (05:50):
You're right, Sue Bradford is a Sue Bradford actually doesn't
deserve to be in this list with all of these people.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Anyway, Thanks very much, Jason, appreciate it. Jason Wall's News
Talks'd be Political. Send more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive.
Speaker 5 (06:02):
Listen live to News Talk set B from four pm weekdays,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio,
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