Jenee Tibshraeny: NZ Herald Wellington business editor on the warning letter the RBNZ chair sent to Treasury

It's been revealed the Reserve Bank chairman sent a warning letter to Treasury in the wake of Adrian Orr's resignation.

Neil Quigley warned that it would  'immediately destroy the goodwill' between the two entities if it publicly released details of the fateful meeting.

NZ Herald Wellington business editor Jenee Tibshraeny explained further.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now back to that warning letter that the Chair of
the Reserve Bank sent to Treasury over Adrian All. What
happened was Treasury was getting ready to release the minutes
of a meeting between Adrian Or and Treasury officials. They
told this is Treasury. They told the Reserve Bank chair
Neil quickly they were going to do it, which prompted
him to email back that it would immediately destroy the
goodwill between the two organizations if it happened. Jenetibscherny is

(00:22):
The Herald's Wellington Business editor and with us Hello Jane, Hi. Ever,
it's pretty extraordinary.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
Yes, I mean immediately destroy the good will. That is
pretty strong language. Now I have seen the minute that
was taken after a meeting on February twenty four, shortly
before Adrianau resigned. This was a meeting between Nikola Willis,
Adrian Or, the head of the Treasury in Rennie, the
Board of the Reserve Bank, Neil Quigley, and some other staff.

(00:48):
And you know, to be honest, there was nothing dramatic
about this minute. I don't understand what the what the
drama is. So the minute at the minute said that
Adrian Or made it clear that he disagreed with the
Treasury over the amount of government funding he thought, you know,
the Reserve Bank needed. The minutes also say that he

(01:08):
expressed his frustration regarding the relationship between the Reserve Bank
and Treasury, and then he left the meeting. Now, the
minute suggests he left the meeting early. I had that confirmed.
He did leave before he was meant to. Did he
leave quietly? Did he storm out? We don't know, you know,
but I don't think it is crazy for it to
be noted that there was a disagreement between two departments.

Speaker 1 (01:32):
Yeah, it does seem quite wild. Is it possible that actually,
is it possible that what made Neil quickly so upset
is because he was in the meeting and he knew
how it went down. And any kind of any kind
of confirmation, even if it is a mild confirmation, is
not a great confirmation.

Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yeah. Look, presumably, And I think at that time things
were really rocky, Like we know through other information release,
Adrian or raised his voice in another meeting with a
staff member from Treasury over this whole funding issue. You know,
Adrian thought the Reserve Bank needed a lot more funding.
So things were tense and you know, as we've realized

(02:13):
the way that the information came out was really vague.
So you know, it just doesn't help. It's one of
these these situations where things obviously weren't great, but it doesn't.
It's almost like at the at this point, the cover
up is worse than the crime.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
Ages ago, ages ago, though right it totally it jumped
the shark a long time ago. I'll tell you what's
fascinating is that he was angry that Treasury had even
kept notes, which I think is interesting. But also then
you have a look at the Director of Legal Services,
Nick McBride, who writes from from the Reserve Bank to
Treasury and says, even if the note tries to be
quite careful with its summary, recording such details of the

(02:55):
discussions and closing, it would undoubtedly inhibit future expression of
blah blah blah blahlah. But heat point, I mean, what
he's basically made quite clear there is that the version
that we've got is a very tame version of what
actually went down.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
Well, I mean, I don't know, it looks like it,
and you know, I don't I've never worked in the
public sector. I don't understand the risk of version that
there seems to be around these things. But historically there
has been tension between the Reserve Bank and the Treasury.
I can think of numerous examples of this, and you know,
it's healthy for there to be some tension between the two,

(03:28):
and there is tension between different government departments. I mean,
we've seen this recently with this whole banking inquiry competition issue,
where we had the Commerce Commission say the Reserve Bank
should change its bank capital rules and then Adrian all
say no, and then the Reserve Bank come back and say, Okay,
we will change the rules. So I don't really think
it's the end of the world now, Heather. I do

(03:51):
have some other news for you today that's the related
to this. I've heard back from the Ombudsman this afternoon.
I was one of many people who made comp plaints
about the way the Reserve Bank had released information about
Adriana's resignation. The Omusman has decided that, you know, the
Reserve Bank was in fact entitled to withhold the information

(04:12):
it has, but that there is an overriding public interest
in the Reserve Bank releasing a summary timeline of the
key information requested. So it sounds like we will get
a summary timeline of information, so we will get a
little bit more, but not necessarily a whole lot more
to answer the questions which I had, which is quite honestly,

(04:35):
why did he resign? You know, did he choose to
resign or was he kind of push to resign?

Speaker 1 (04:41):
Personal decision? Don't you know?

Speaker 2 (04:42):
Jene's purpose about yes? And actually I should just quickly
credit Michael Riddell, who's the person who made these official
information requests, and my colleague Jamie Insl who wrote about
it for The Hero.

Speaker 1 (04:54):
Thank you for they Hey, listen, have a look at
this stuff and then let us know if there's anything
in it. And I appreciate everything about this a nerdual
tenacity Jane Tipschraney, The Herald's Wellington Business editor. Interesting. What
I didn't mention earlier is that Nikola Willis has had
to disagree with Neil quickly again. Nichola Willis told The
Herald she was aware of Nick Neil Quigley's email. I
disagree with the views put forward by the Chair because

(05:16):
I think it's entirely appropriate for treasury officials to take
minutes of a significant government meeting. She said, I don't
know how many more times Nichola Willis can disagree with
Neil Quickley and yet retain him in the position. Yes,
it's bloody awkward.

Speaker 2 (05:28):
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