Jenee Tibshraeny: NZ Herald Wellington business editor on the text messages revealing Adrian Orr would have been sacked if he didn't resign

Copies of text messages just released by Treasury confirm Adrian Orr was likely to be sacked if he didn’t resign as Reserve Bank Governor.

The process was so advanced, Secretary to the Treasury Iain Rennie warned Finance Minister Nicola Willis she might receive a recommendation from the Reserve Bank board to advise the Governor-General to remove Orr.

NZ Herald Wellington business editor Jenee Tibshraeny explained further,

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Yes, the world's longest resignation saga continues. We now have
copies of text messages just released by Treasury that confirmed
that Adrian all was likely to be sacked if he
didn't resign as the Reserve Bank governor. It's transpired now
that the process was so advanced that Nikola Willis was
told she might receive a recommendation from the Reserve Bank's
board to remove or Jene Debsraney as The Herald's Wellington

(00:20):
business editor and with us hygiename hi, Now tell us
what you've got under the OA. What's going on here?

Speaker 2 (00:27):
Okay? So I've got copies of text messages between the
Head of the Treasury, Ian Rennie and Nikola Willis from
February twenty seven, So this is shortly before Adrian Or
resigned on March five, and basically Ian Rennie was keeping
Nikola Willis in the loop, saying that Adrian Or had
chosen to stand down from his role because the Reserve

(00:50):
Bank Board had presented him with a letter of concerns.
And then he interestingly also said that Neil Quickly, the
chair of the Board, was his current thinking was that
Nichola Willis could receive a recommendation. The following week, unleass,
a decision was taken for Or to go voluntarily. So

(01:11):
I double checked with the Treasury exactly what Ian Ready meant,
and what he was saying was basically, you know that
Nicolo Willis might receive a recommendation from the Reserve Bank
Board to start the process of sacking Adrian Or. So
you know, I think what's come to light in recent
weeks is definitely that there was an element of Adrian
Or being pushed to resign. That that kind of came

(01:35):
out when the on Bisman forced the Reserve Bank to
release some more information. But what this shows was that
the process was fairly well advanced and that you know,
Nichola Willis was warned that, yeah, look she needs to
get ready to consider whether whether she wants to sack him.

Speaker 1 (01:51):
Is this bad for Nichola Willis.

Speaker 2 (01:54):
I think it is. I think it is bad because
the buck does. I mean, this whole thing is a
shamozzle and the buck does stop with the minister. But
Nicholallis has defended herself here. She said, look, the reason
she hasn't come out earlier to say this is the
real story. This is what happened is because she wanted
to make sure she upheld the Reserve Bank's independence and

(02:18):
that she didn't get involved in a employment dispute that
she wasn't party to. You know, she she was wary
of the fact that there was that Adrian or disputed
the letter of concerns and then the letter was ultimately bimmed,
So she didn't want to say something that contravened that agreement,
you know, that could cause a big old legal stoush.

(02:40):
So she has really tried to distance herself. Interestingly, this week,
Barbara Edmonds of Labor has jumped on board this issue
and has been interrogating Nickoloblis pretty forensically in the House
to try to try to draw out some information.

Speaker 1 (02:56):
Yeah, I mean it does. It does feel like a
bit of bollocks for Nikolay willis right because she was
asked repeatedly, like to the point where I became embarrassed
at actually asking her any more questions about it, and
she never faced up anything. So it's hard for her
to defend this. But having said that, in the interim,
she has managed to get rid of Neil Quigley, So
does that save her.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
Yeah, Look, I think the thing that Nicola Willis should
have done is put greater pressure on the Reserve Bank
than she did to come clean with the story sooner.
So Nickola Willis says that she did put pressure on
the Reserve Bank board, and that is that is correct.
We've seen evidence of that publicly and privately. But ultimately

(03:35):
the pressure that she put on the board wasn't enough,
and the board only the Reserve Bank only released more
information after the Ombardsman intervened, and then ultimately Nichola Willis
only got Neil Quiggley to resign after this all came out,
and that was only a couple of weeks ago. So
I think the thing that it's a tough Nichola Willis

(03:56):
wasn't a tough situation. The thing she should have done
was put greater pressure on the Reserve Bank board. But
it's a tough one because you know, she does not
want to be seen to be interfering with the Reserve Bank.
But I think actually something people should realize is that
there's one thing for the Reserve Bank to be accountable
to the government. That's fine, it's a whole other thing

(04:17):
if the government gets involved in o CR decisions and
what we're talking about here has nothing to do with
ocr decisions. It's all about accountability.

Speaker 1 (04:26):
Now, look looking at it from from from the outside right,
it looks to me like Nichola Willis as a financement
is under an incredible amount of pressure. She's she's clearly
stuffed up here. She's she's got rid of Neil quickly
as a result she stuffed up on the bust of stuff.
She got very close to stuffing up on the supermarket
stuff and saved it at the very end. Is she
when you see her in the corridors of Parliament, does

(04:46):
she look like she's under pressure?

Speaker 2 (04:49):
I think today she she looked a bit exasperated by
this saga. I mean, it's always tough when politicians talk
a big game in terms of fixing some fairly massive
problems and then they don't delivery. And I think that
that is what's happened here. But if you've see Nichola

(05:10):
Willis compared to her pairs other politicians, she is a
very good politician. You know, she is good at communicating
and and so on. So but I think in this instance,
I'm I'm disappointed by the lot of them. Actually, I
can't even distinguish anymore between who's most culpable. I just
feel like, as a member of the public, I've been

(05:31):
mislead and it's disappointing.

Speaker 1 (05:33):
Yeah, it just looks like a giant cover up, doesn't it. Jane,
Thanks very much, appreciate it, Janet to Tcherani, the Herald's
Wellington Business editor.

Speaker 2 (05:39):
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