John Munro: criminal defence lawyer on the Government's proposed changes to trespassing laws

A criminal defence lawyer isn't sure changing trespassing laws will significantly impact retail crime. 

The Justice Minister's latest law and order proposal would double maximum fines for trespassing on businesses. 

It will also let owners ban people from multiple sites - and for longer. 

John Munro says the move, alongside an earlier announcement on harsher moves against shoplifting, won't make much difference.

"Most of those sorts of people, I would think, don't have much money in the first place to end up paying a fine - does it really deter them?"

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
Digging through the spinth to find the real story story.
It's hither, duplessy on drive with one New Zealand let's
get connected news talks.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
That'd be We've just said the fourth law and order
announcement from the government in five days. This time it's
changes to trespass laws which will increase penalties and also
how long people can be trespassed. John Munroe, criminal defense lawyer,
is with us now.

Speaker 3 (00:27):
Hello, John, good evening.

Speaker 1 (00:29):
Now.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
I imagine the most helpful part of this is actually
going to be the ability to trespass somebody from not
just one location, but multiple locations.

Speaker 3 (00:36):
What do you think that sounds like it? Yes, that
they can do it across a lot of their stores.
I suppose like the Warehouse or New World can do
it across all of their shops. That's one of the
one of the big changes in in that law.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
Having a look at what's been announced across the four announcements,
much of which is dealing with retail crime, is this
going to make a difference to retail crime? Do you think?

Speaker 3 (00:59):
It's very difficult to say. The changes that's one major
change that we just mentioned. The other changes are increasing
the penalties from two years that you can't come back
to the premises to three years, I think is the
first one. And then another one where if you refuse
to give your name and address when trespassed, that's going
from five hundred dollars to a thousand, and if you

(01:23):
refuse to leave or come back at the time, that's
going from one thousand to two thousand dollars. I mean,
I don't really I don't really think those increases are
going to make a significant difference to people who are
perhaps shoplifting or doing that sort of crime. In any event,
most of those sorts of people I would think don't
have much money in the first place to end up

(01:44):
paying a fine. Does it really deter them? I wouldn't
have thought so. I would have thought that having police
there and arresting them for a crime really deters people.
But I don't know about just increases in fines.

Speaker 2 (01:57):
Right, So do you think much more energy should be
put into something like police presence? Police will the beat
that kind of thing.

Speaker 3 (02:04):
Well, when you look at all that all the changes
that have been have been fast and furious in the
last sort of month or months, A lot of them.
For example, the last one about having a special offense,
a specific offense for assaulting a police officer or assaulting
a person in the line of duty. That those things,
those sorts of aggravating factors are in the Sentencing Act already.

(02:28):
So if you assault a police officer in their line
of in their duty, then your sentence will get aggravated
and increased because of it. So I don't I don't
really see what the teeth.

Speaker 2 (02:39):
But I mean this expands it to also include amos
and fine.

Speaker 3 (02:45):
No, no, it's it's it's it's it's in the Senensing Act.
I think it's nine F around that region. There's I
think it's health workers as well, in any any of
those sorts of.

Speaker 2 (02:58):
Can I think you take on something because I'm a
little bit con used by it right this read the
shoplifting fine. Is it possible for the police to issue
a fine to a shoplifter on the spot without determining
guilt through the courts?

Speaker 3 (03:10):
That that's is that a new proposed law. I didn't
know that law yet. I don't think they can do
that at the moment, would be proposed? Sorry, would we
be okay with that? Well? I don't think so. I
think due of course, I think justice needs to take
place when an allegation such as that.

Speaker 2 (03:29):
Yeah, all right, John Justice, Yeah, I really appreciate your time.
This John Unroe, criminal defense lawyer.

Speaker 1 (03:34):
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